New disclaimer from IB

Discussion in 'Retail Brokers' started by trader07, Jun 20, 2007.

  1. I went to open a new web ticket from IB and this agreement popped up. Anybody concerned about this disclaimer? Does it signal the beginning of the end for IB?

    INTERACTIVE BROKERS LLC CUSTOMER AGREEMENT

    1. Customer Agreement: This Agreement ("Agreement") governs the relationship between Customer and Interactive Brokers LLC ("IB"). If this Agreement varies from the IB website, this Agreement controls. This Agreement cannot be amended or waived except in writing by an IB officer. Customer Service employees cannot amend or waive any part of this Agreement. Customer acknowledges that IB may modify this Agreement by sending notice of the revised Agreement by e-mail or upon Customer log-in. Customer's use of IB after such notice constitutes acceptance of the revised Agreement.
    2. No Investment, Tax or Trading Advice: IB representatives are not authorized to provide investment, tax or trading advice or to solicit orders. Nothing on IB's website is a recommendation or solicitation to buy or sell securities, futures or other investments.
    3. Responsibility for Customer Orders/Trades: Customer acknowledges that IB does not know whether someone entering orders with Customer's user name/password is Customer. Unless IB is notified and agrees, Customer will not allow anyone to access Customer's account. Customer is responsible for the confidentiality and use of Customer's user name/password and agrees to report any theft/loss of such user name/password, or any unauthorized access to Customer's account, immediately by telephone or electronically through the IB website. Customer remains responsible for all transactions entered using Customer's user name/password.
    ……..
    IB IS NOT LIABLE FOR ANY ACTION OR DECISION OF ANY EXCHANGE, MARKET, DEALER, CLEARINGHOUSE OR REGULATOR.
    ……
    27. LIMITATION OF LIABILITY AND LIQUIDATED DAMAGES PROVISION: CUSTOMER ACCEPTS THE IB SYSTEM "AS IS", AND WITHOUT WARRANTIES, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR USE, PURPOSE OR APPLICATION; TIMELINESS; FREEDOM FROM INTERRUPTION; OR ANY IMPLIED WARRANTIES ARISING FROM TRADE USAGE, COURSE OF DEALING OR COURSE OF PERFORMANCE. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHALL IB BE LIABLE FOR ANY PUNITIVE, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL LOSS OR DAMAGES, INCLUDING LOSS OF BUSINESS, PROFITS OR GOODWILL. IB SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO CUSTOMER BY REASON OF DELAYS OR INTERRUPTIONS OF SERVICE OR TRANSMISSIONS, OR FAILURES OF PERFORMANCE OF THE IB SYSTEM, REGARDLESS OF CAUSE, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THOSE CAUSED BY HARDWARE OR SOFTWARE MALFUNCTION; GOVERNMENTAL, EXCHANGE OR OTHER REGULATORY ACTION; ACTS OF GOD; WAR, TERRORISM, OR IB'S INTENTIONAL ACTS. CUSTOMER RECOGNIZES THAT THERE MAY BE DELAYS OR INTERRUPTIONS IN THE USE OF THE IB SYSTEM, INCLUDING, FOR EXAMPLE, THOSE CAUSED INTENTIONALLY BY IB FOR PURPOSES OF SERVICING THE IB SYSTEM. IN NO EVENT SHALL IB'S LIABILITY, REGARDLESS OF THE FORM OF ACTION AND DAMAGES SUFFERED BY CUSTOMER, EXCEED THE HIGHEST TOTAL MONTHLY COMMISSIONS PAID BY CUSTOMER TO IB OVER THE 6 MONTHS PRIOR TO ANY INCIDENT.
    28. Customer Must Maintain Alternative Trading Arrangements: Computer-based systems such as those used by IB are inherently vulnerable to disruption, delay or failure. CUSTOMER MUST MAINTAIN ALTERNATIVE TRADING ARRANGEMENTS IN ADDITION TO CUSTOMER'S IB ACCOUNT FOR EXECUTION OF CUSTOMER'S ORDERS IN THE EVENT THAT THE IB SYSTEM IS UNAVAILABLE. By signing this Agreement, Customer represents that Customer maintains alternative trading arrangements.
    ….
    30. DISCLOSURE STATEMENT: THIS STATEMENT IS FURNISHED TO YOU BECAUSE RULE 190.10(c) OF THE COMMODITY FUTURES TRADING COMMISSION REQUIRES IT FOR REASONS OF FAIR NOTICE UNRELATED TO IB'S CURRENT FINANCIAL CONDITION: (A) YOU SHOULD KNOW THAT IN THE UNLIKELY EVENT OF THIS COMPANY'S BANKRUPTCY, PROPERTY, INCLUDING PROPERTY SPECIFICALLY TRACEABLE TO YOU, WILL BE RETURNED, TRANSFERRED OR DISTRIBUTED TO YOU, OR ON YOUR BEHALF, ONLY TO THE EXTENT OF YOUR PRO RATA SHARE OF ALL PROPERTY AVAILABLE FOR DISTRIBUTION TO CUSTOMERS; (B) NOTICE CONCERNING THE TERMS FOR THE RETURN OF SPECIFICALLY IDENTIFIABLE PROPERTY WILL BE MADE BY PUBLICATION IN A NEWSPAPER OF GENERAL CIRCULATION. (C) THE COMMISSION'S REGULATIONS CONCERNING BANKRUPTCIES OF COMMODITY BROKERS CAN BE FOUND AT 17 CODE OF FEDERAL REGULATIONS PART 190.
    …..
    33. Mandatory Arbitration:
    • ALL PARTIES TO THIS AGREEMENT ARE GIVING UP THE RIGHT TO SUE EACH OTHER IN COURT, INCLUDING THE RIGHT TO A TRIAL BY JURY, EXCEPT AS PROVIDED BY THE RULES OF THE ARBITRATION FORUM IN WHICH A CLAIM IS FILED.

    • ARBITRATION AWARDS ARE GENERALLY FINAL AND BINDING; A PARTY'S ABILITY TO HAVE A COURT REVERSE OR MODIFY AN ARBITRATION AWARD IS VERY LIMITED.

    • THE ABILITY OF THE PARTIES TO OBTAIN DOCUMENTS, WITNESS STATEMENTS AND OTHER DISCOVERY IS GENERALLY MORE LIMITED IN ARBITRATION THAN IN COURT PROCEEDINGS.

    • THE ARBITRATORS DO NOT HAVE TO EXPLAIN THE REASON(S) FOR THEIR AWARD.

    • THE PANEL OF ARBITRATORS WILL TYPICALLY INCLUDE A MINORITY OF ARBITRATORS WHO WERE OR ARE AFFILIATED WITH THE SECURITIES INDUSTRY.

    • THE RULES OF SOME ARBITRATION FORUMS MAY IMPOSE TIME LIMITS FOR BRINGING A CLAIM IN ARBITRATION.

    • IN SOME CASES, A CLAIM THAT IS INELIGIBLE FOR ARBITRATION MAY BE BROUGHT IN COURT.

    • THE RULES OF THE ARBITRATION FORUM IN WHICH THE CLAIM IS FILED, AND ANY AMENDMENTS THERETO, SHALL BE INCORPORATED INTO THIS AGREEMENT.
    A. Customer agrees that any controversy, dispute, claim, or grievance between IB, any IB affiliate or any of their shareholders, officers, directors employees, associates, or agents, on the one hand, and Customer or, if applicable, Customer's shareholders, officers, directors employees, associates, or agents on the other hand, arising out of, or relating to, this Agreement, or any account(s) established hereunder in which securities may be traded; any transactions therein; any transactions between IB and Customer; any provision of the Customer Agreement or any other agreement between IB and Customer; or any breach of such transactions or agreements;, shall be resolved by arbitration, in accordance with the rules then prevailing of any one of the following: (a) The American Arbitration Association; (b) The New York Stock Exchange, Inc.; (c) any other exchange of which IB is a member; or (d) the National Association of Securities Dealers, Inc., as the true claimant-in-interest may elect. If Customer is the claimant-in-interest and has not selected an arbitration forum within ten days of providing notice of Customer's intent to arbitrate, IB shall select the forum. The award of the arbitrators, or a majority of them, shall be final, and judgment upon the award rendered may be entered in any court, state or federal, having jurisdiction.
    B. No person shall bring a putative or certified class action to arbitration, nor seek to enforce any pre-dispute arbitration agreement against any person who has initiated in court a putative class action; or who is a member of a putative class who has not opted out of the class with respect to any claims encompassed by the putative class action until:
    • the class certification is denied; or
    • the class is decertified; or
    • the customer is excluded from the class by the court. Such forbearance to enforce an agreement to arbitrate shall not constitute a waiver of any rights under this agreement except to the extent stated herein.
     
  2. Bob111

    Bob111

    my trading systems soo IB dependent, i did even read new disclaimer,and i really have no choice,but i'm pretty sure it's suck even more than previous one. probably as usual-take it as it is, or if you don't like it-f** off.we are not responsible for anything and it's all your fault anyway :D
     
  3. Div_Arb

    Div_Arb

    This is all pretty common stuff for a broker - is there something that stands out to you in this agreement?
     
  4. The difference i find is that if due to some technical issues, u "miss opportunities" to make money with IB or Ameritrade, Ameritrade might give you some "free trades" and seem more willing to listen and give you something to compensate you, whereas IB will categorically tell you that their policy states "no compensation" for missed opportunities due to technical failures and will quote directly from that disclaimer...

    Now the above refers to a "missing opportunity" situation, but I don't know what IB does if you actually lose money due to a problem on IB's side. Has anyone been compensated somehow by IB for either missing opportunity or losing money due to an IB technical issue?
     
  5. Bob111

    Bob111

    i'm in such situation right now.not that i'm losing money, but i'm certanly not earning them,since IB did not update my account correctly and my balance,holdings and cash positions are screwed.. and they know and confirm the problem,but #1-i notice it, not IB,#2-i report it and they screwed even more. now-5 days later, after i found the problem- i'm in same sh**t, just like 5 days ago and so far, after i reopen the ticket today-no respond from IB.now i have absolutley no confidence with IB and have to check and recalculate my positions on my side every day(mean-more work for me).
     
  6. A couple of things. They update their disclaimer soon after they IPO. This is eerily similar to Rydex when they went under. I've heard comments in similarity mentioned often here so I won't repeat them (including in defense of IB). Also this paragraph is new to me....

    IN NO EVENT SHALL IB'S LIABILITY, REGARDLESS OF THE FORM OF ACTION AND DAMAGES SUFFERED BY CUSTOMER, EXCEED THE HIGHEST TOTAL MONTHLY COMMISSIONS PAID BY CUSTOMER TO IB OVER THE 6 MONTHS PRIOR TO ANY INCIDENT.


     
  7. Seems a little harsh. So someone with a 1 million $ acct, that trades rarely, would be covered for nothing, but a daytrader with a 25 k account could get compensation in the 1000's.
     
  8. I should have said "Refco" in this post. I apologize to Rydex. As far as I know Rydex is a reputable and financially sound firm.

     
  9. Htrader

    Htrader Guest

    They added this new disclaimer right at the same time they are requiring everybody to participate in the Secure ID program.

    So now IB is washing its hands of all responsibility should a security breach in your account occur.
     
  10. RL8093

    RL8093

    The more posts I read about IB, the more I see different issues that would drive me bonkers. It really is a shame that another broker doesn't come along and actually compete w/ them (similar range of products, reasonable / non-clueless customer service, and functional glitch-free interface).
     
    #10     Jun 20, 2007