Navinder Sarao Spoofing account.<- how much until it really works?

Hey,
we all know Nav Sarao who supposedly is the only bad guy and spoofed and made the flash crash happen (imo no chance that he was involved but that's not part of this)

• He used spoofing techniques in the e mini s&p.
• When he first started its said he had an account with about 20k.
• But i can't really believe that with 20k you can move the e mini s&p.

How much capital do you think is needed to actually carry out what Nav did (spoof the markets and actually make an impact)

 

It depends what broker you have. With a retail account you cannot do it as every order is credit checked before sending. If you have an account at a prop shop where they do not credit check then you can put the size in. The book is out and the film is coming on this story if you want to know more.

 

but with 20k..? i dont think so

 

a prop account with 20k can put those orders in. You have to negotiate with the prop shop.

 

I traded prop and you can't put that size on with 20k, especially not with futures. That would be beyond stupid. I traded stocks and they let me put size on at the opening, but it was closely monitored.

 

Funny how you make different statements and then say that you don’t believe them.
In that case either your research is poor or you just won’t believe anyone or any answers.

Though looks like Nav first made $1 million before getting into spoofing:
https://markets.businessinsider.com...h-book-excerpt-liam-vaughan-2020-5-1029208473
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In an extract from his book, Flash Crash, Liam Vaughan recounts how the man dubbed the Hound of Hounslow made his first million pounds after crossing paths with another notorious financial figure.
====

 

I still dont get how its possible to spoof es, its arbed with spy and the 500 stocks
that encompass the index. makes no sense to me.

 

They worked from Europe, often during time when the US stock market is closed.
And if there is a large buyer for S&P 500 then what are they going to bid on? SPY? individual stocks? They’d have to bid directly on futures, so without hiding bids you’d see those bids on /ES, not on SPY.

 

1000 ES lots needs 800K margin with some brokers.

I think now a days retail traders cant spoof even if they wanted to, as most brokers and execution platforms will flag your account pretty quick.

 

True, didn't think about AH.

But during RTH I don't see how it can be a thing.

Although i don't know, just my thoughts...