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Making my use of stops more methodical and effective

  1. Hi, I'm a futures trader-I have some money longer term in stocks, but just spare a little for futures. Intra-day trading.

    I am trading reasonably well, getting many profits, but am hopeless with stops and get the regular large loss that limits my success. I'm trying to eliminate this pattern of holding on to bad trades, then when I get consistency will scale up to 10-20 contracts a time.

    I am looking for help to work through my methodology when placing trades, and using stops. If indeed I have developed a bad psychological approach as a result of these losses, then I still can fix it easily by the correct actions each time.

    Here's a graph showing my last two weeks.

    Any help would be appreciated.

    Thanks.
     
  2. here's the graph
     
  3. You

    1) put a large batch of the (past) trades into a spreadsheet, showing each one's worst intratrade drawdown (also called Maximum Adverse Excursion or MAE).

    2) try to equalize the value of all trades somewhat (like, a trade with 3 contracts of emini should be divided by 1/3 if being compared to a 1 contract trade). This can be tricky, but it helps

    3) Sort on MAE column. Then, try different dollar amount stops to see roughly where you can cut them all off, and still keep profit high.
     
  4. Thanks. I'll get into it more on the weekend, but that's roughly what I did on the chart I linked. I made two columns of over 300 trades, the real value, and the one where every large loss was cut at 120$.

    This works for me since I am trading 1 contract on almost all the trades, and almost all the losses are due to buying another one when facing a loss, then cancelling the stop.

    Basically, I need to fix this habit. Saying I shouldn't do that isn't enough. I'm goig to try using 12 tick stop on all trades and no averaging in next week. But, I'd like to make the routine methodical, solid.

    I have already improved my focus on each trade-and making many nice profits, but every now and then I slip up, and my immediate response is to try to average and recover, or wait. Both are deadly
     
  5. If your problem is simply discipline then use some gray box software to automate your stops. I use something that automatically sets my stop the second I get my position. It will trail and punch out based on whatever criteria I select when building my rules....can include volume, level size, % of level that gets printed, etc. Do you use TT?
     
  6. I just want to quickly reply now-thanks for your post. i use ninja without the subscription.
     
  7. I wasn't saying to cut if at $120, I said to try different size stops and see where you get best effect. For example, cut off at $50, $75, $100, etc (whatever scale you decide to use). But test from very small to pretty large. You will probably see your results peak at one+ points. You might even want to use 2 diff stop sizes, as market volatility/behavior change constantly.

    Doesn't guarantee this will work in real life, but it is an effective diagnosis tool. And do NOT forget, stops often have negative slippage that will cost you $$ you don't see when testing. So a larger stop is more profitable than a smaller stop (fewer stopouts), if both yield similar profits.

    Someone once said, that a stop that gets you out of the 20% largest losses is a good rule of thumb, but I never tested that.

    You MAY also want to look at how different targets work (use big ones though). in the same way You MAY find it reduces your time in market and possibly even increases your income - depends on your trading method. Plus if hit, it is POSITIVE slippage.
     
  8. I haven't been recording MAE, so will make a column for that in my spreadsheet for each trade, then check the results over the next two weeks. I'll add further columns to the spreadsheet to show the loss of different size stops. I'll spend a while each day graphing out the previous day's trades, too.

    I'll go with a 17 tick stop this coming week. That should get my worst trades, and give me plenty of room so I don't have to worry about being slightly wrong on entry. I made more than 30% this week on this account, but am looking for much much more.

    I will check my worst trades (the ones which lost over 250$) this weekend to see where I should have placed a stop. I'll print out the top 5 mistakes for the wall to remind myself of the consequences of being ill-disciplined. However, I still need to design a methodolical approach to the trades that ensures I cut fast.

    I tend to win, or lose badly. I seldom lose small. I'm used to getting profits so it's vital to find that same decisiveness to take a loss. When I get out of synch with the market I can begin to hold and hope. Often my profits will be in runs (of my last 20 trades Friday-wanted to finish the week well, made profit on 18), then so will my losses-a few small losses as I lose focus, then a big one.

    Making larger profits would be nice, I am definitely missing up to 10 good profits of 25 ticks per day by focusing on frequent smaller profits. Once I can get my stops solved, I'll move onto working out allowing more profits to run.

    I saw this file on another thread, so will post it here too:
    THe phantom's Gift
    Up to page 9, so far. Just preamble. I like the quote "The truth is that the BEST LOSER is the long-term winner." Very applicable to my trading lately.
     
  9. to traderzones, and others who could help:

    I've seen you mention Profit Factor, Sharpe, Max Drawdown

    When I am recording my trades on a spreadsheet, what stats should I record?

    I'm going to make it more comprehensive and useful

    -size of move that I entered
    -my ticks gained/lost, also $
    -account performance-30 minutes, day, week, month, including trade by trade and collated amounts
    --# contracts and commission
    -MAE loss per contract, tick/$, and totals for position

    -time in trade
    -time before market proved me right
    -time before market proved me wrong
    -time I should have held to get full move
     
  10. here's that pdf I mentioned, really interesting
     
  11. In the past Traderzones has been asked to post spread sheets. He doesn't get around to it for various reasons.

    You can simply check out the various vendor test sites for how a particular trading method is assessed.

    30% a week when doing intraday trading with a method means that you extracted some of the offer.

    I'm not familiar with MAE, since it doesn't relate to the appraoches I use. At one point the Tucson Meetup group examined stops. We checked out the 12 most common methods, all under dynamic conditions. Static stops such as you and traderzones do were not considered since they have no relationship to market dynamics.

    It is possible to develop trading plans that do not involve stops. One factor involves knowing all the time which side of the market is the right side. There is the notion that price movement can be related to the market making an offer. MAE, as described, sounds like a market offer in a specific direction. In your and Traderzones case, the opposite direction of a position. Most people consider not holding positions on the wrong side of the market since no profits accumulate during these hold periods.

    Stops do not remedy this trading conduct as you have pointed out.

    While it is off topic, you may wish to begin to focus on what constitutes staying on the right side of the market and its corrolary doing wash trades to eliminate any losses.

    The key process for this is called Monitoring. I'm sure you are seeing two types of excursions. Traderzones wants you to keep track of the adverse one you allow to happen to you. Sounds kind of stupid to me or maybe he has a hindsight orientation this week.

    When you are making the 30% a week, you do notice the excursions that generate the profit segments. This is a plus since you can keep doubling your account fairly frequently. You account kkeps track of these automatically as you have noticed.

    Any excursion can be monitored. I would log each as long or short and take profits on each. As you long, you see each excursion begin, continue and end. You could use a stop as a reference. As you see price moving away from it,hold the position. If price moves twoards it, then reverse your position and place a stop behind the price movement. In this way you can see price moving away from your stop yey once again.

    another fun thing to do in midday is just enter randomly and then exit as a wash for practice. You can add a tick to cover the commissions when you practice this. It is like taking your bicycle arond the block and not missing any of the turns. Most people can complete several block cycles and not fall off even once.

    Do bracket trades as well. Let the entry take you where the market wants and let the other side of the bracket be a stop. As long as you move away from the stop you keep holding.

    You may discover how profit segments come to an end some day. If you have a neutral bias, then it is easy to make this discovery. Stops deal with where the market doesn't go if you know what you are doing. It is the same for MAE; there aren't any if you know what you are doing.

    I usually lay out my next four trades in advance. As I do trading I keep a list of upcoming trades current. As a neutral biased trader, I look at the end of one profit segment as identical to the next beginning of a new profit segment. This comes about because I divide monitoring information into two groups and one group I analyze is to hold and the other group is to simultaneously end and begin trades. For you the end of a trade would be when the price is finished moving away from your stop; this happens to be coincident with the beginning of the next profit segment for me.

    So for you who makes 30% a week, look at all times to do a trade as entries. If you are holding long, lookfor a good short entry as time passes. If you are holding short, be looking for a good long entry. Obviously this eliminates setting stops since you will be going away from any stop all of the time.

    A fun way to look at this on a screen is to have the market set stops for you. Use the DOM for this since it is a lot of fun. Look for the two walls on the DOM afeter you have entered one of your good trades. Watch the price move in a direction for more profits. notice there is a wall behind your trade and it is moving with your trade as your trade makes more and more money. The wall in front of you moves away too, opening the way for more profits for you to have.

    As time passes, the wall behind you seems to catch up a little and the wall ahead of you gets stubborn and too large to disolve. You guessed it your profit segment has come to an end.

    This is where you get to start your record for Traderzones. He wants you to go from this point onward and measure how you begin to sit through an adverse excursion by holding after price fails to breach the wall and reverses and goes way back past your prior entry. The altenative I recommend is to trade at the wall and actually revese to make the excusion no longer adverse.

    If you are the type of trader who monitors and anotates, then you price and volume annotation depicts where the wall will be unbreachable in advance. In channel type annotating, wall appear at pt 1 2 and 3 and FTT but they do not appear at the BO of RTL's where the overlap of trends is ending.

    It is kind of nice when a trader gets to the place where the Conventional Wisdom is laid aside. Probably at this point a person can recognize that adverse excursion do not occur. They are mythical things it turns out. I've never seen one as a matter of fact. I've heard about them and people who use them on excel spread sheets.

    I would add a word to your handle: here. Make it read loggingstopshere
     


  12. Stops are basically an issue for gamblers and novice traders. People need to work on thier entries and market understanding more, instead of working out how much money they want to lose after tossing the proverbial coin. Hope this helps.
     

  13. It's probably the commissions that are killing you. I had the same thing happen to me. Textbook. I switched from no realized commissions to huge ones and it changed my whole game.

    Ran the numbers and realized my size wasn't big enough.

    Since I don't want more risk I actually switched to fixed $$$ stops

    if you want to keep it as simple as possible fixed $$$$ is the way to go. If you REALLY want to do the extra work you can optimize but this is the best way.

     

  14. Improvingstops

    First of all, ignore everything Jack Hershey says. He is the leading guru wannabe. And has made major claims and refused every of the 100+ challenges from many different people for proof of his outlandish claims.

    He is a ruthless misleader of many many newbies on ET. His misdeeds are unbelievably long, and Jack knows how many dozens of misled and angry traders in the last few years on ET against him. Not to mention he has said several times he was leaving, but he has a pathological need to be worshipped.

    Again, avoid him. If you do not believe me, I will send you endless threads of people who have been duped by his Biblical length posts and gibberish approach and God complex he has.

    Anyway, sounds like you are on the right track. If you report progress, I am sure myself and others will give you feedback.
     
  15. Improvingstops

    I was told early in my trading never lose more than x amount then I learned every setup is different in more volitile mkts adjust stops and reduce size.wider stops may give you a little breathing room to let you trades play out without getting stopped 2 or 3 times then wathing the mkt move after you throw in the towel. My biggest problem was (is) moving my stops to early and getting out of trades with little or no profit trying to avoid a loss.

    Phil
     
  16. Jack, with all due respect, I'm focused on trading as fast as I can using a variety of analyses that I am intrinsically comfortable with. Proposing that I change that approach is misdirection. I made 1700$ before losses, after commisions, per contract on Friday. I lack not skill, and I have no wish to be permanently in the market (which strikes me as dangerous and tiring, and boring). I made more than 30% this week, but over the past two weeks if I had used the stops as per the chart, I'd be looking at much more. Refer the graph I posted, all real trades.
    So, thanks for your time, but I'll focus on optimising my profits and eliminating my larger losses.

    Dackster-I am neither gambler or novice, although I will always try to work on my entries and strategies to get as much as possible from the market. I averaged 1200$ profits before losses, after commsions, per contract every day this week. However, I left much more on the table.

    athlonmank8-thanks, but I'll keep the stop based on ticks, since I am seldom wrong by 17 ticks, and when I am, I hold longer or average in to get a huge loss.

    Traderzones-yes, I'll set up a spreadsheet, as simple but useful as possible since I make over 30 trades per day. After a few weeks I'll post the results. I will also make a simple flow chart for my routine setting stops (to break my bad habit) and assessing the trade more critically. I want to change my attitude so I am more decisive taking small losses.

    hmcp-thanks, I won't use tight stops. It is too stressful worrying about whether it'll be hit then reversed. I rather want to focus on the market-am I right, or wrong in this trade, and what is the scope of my profit potential. If I am wrong, get out at the cheapest loss now. Let the stop prevent big losses from when I messed up.

    Thanks for all your posts and time.
     
  17. I agree with you . I like to always have stops in place sometimes for unforseen events and sometimes I just want to be stuborn and think I must be right. Most of the time you will realize if you are wrong and get out before you are stopped out. I have learned I ned stops in place to protect me from me.I get a little cocky sometimes.


    Phil
     

  18. That works too bud. Fixed anything. $$$, ticks, whatever.

    heck, you could base them off of what your target expectations are too but that's got it's own problems.

    Ideally, you want to base it on volatility, but whether you have it too close or too large is relative to whether those conditions will continue. In addition, over-optimizing that strategy can really cost you in the end.

    Most un-stressful way is fixed. Then adjust them from there if need-be.

    Regardless, keep us updated. Im curious to see what you come up with for your strategy.
     
  19. four trades so far....

    No adverse excursions either.....
     
  20. AS usual, proud he can predict the past...
     
  21. Good boy! That's a good doggie!!! Now, bring the stick to daddy!...

    [​IMG]
     
  22. Phil, I'm struggling with the same thing as the OP and your comment above encapsulates a (still) major problem for me. My psychology is improving by the day thanks to a lot practice in my sim account. It all comes down to experience, screen time and confidence. And you really do have to draw a firm line in the sand, because earlier this year when I became TOO confident I failed to do that.

    TraderZones, I don't believe I've ever put in a negative comment about a particular person on ET, but you are so incredibly negative and your negative posts suffocate anything of value you offer here, which you do occasionally offer.

    Jack Hershey has provided incredible educational material on ET for anyone willing to put in the time to "grok" it.

    Just because you are unwilling to put in that time is no reason to diss a very valuable contributor to this site.
     
  23. Do you have a track record?
     
  24. Yes, that's all he can do, and all an entire 2000+ page thread is about. People drawing lines saying where they <i>should have bought.</i>
     
  25. You give Jack Hershey far too much credit. He's an old loon, that happened to find a younger lad to build his system in tradestation only to find it doesn't work in that platform.
     
  26. I vote for fixed stops.... you can always get back in? A discretionary stop WILL get you sooner or later. If the $120 stop looks that much better, simply use it.. and don't look back.. perfection will never happen... Also cap daily loss $$$
     
  27. Not a single person that has studied the "material" has ever provided a proven track record or even proof that they've actually traded the (and I use the word loosely) system.

    They all seem to revel in paper trading but fail when money is on the line, including Jack himself.

    As the old saying goes the proof of the pudding is in the trading.. and these people seem to be starving.
     

  28. The best way to improve "stops" is not using them, actually. But, instead, finding alternative ways to hedging.


    ____________________
    Tom
    My <a href="http://www.datatime.eu/public/gbot/2009_11_03_Tue_Wed_Overnight/default.htm" target="_blank">futures autotrading</a> journal
     
  29. It is amazing how the clueless condemn themselves. But the others already covered above. Hershey lovers dwell in the 13 Darkest Level of Newbie Trader Hades.

    Have you not read the 1,000s of negative posts about the Desperate Guru Wannabe (Hershey)?
     
  30. There's nothing to study, search for Scottd's posts, and you'll find TS code. Take the TS code, and convert to WL5 or WL4.5 code, and you'll have a quite profitable system to work off of.
     
  31. Here is the correct placement of stops.

    Buying .....
    place your stop 1 tic above the lowest low that forms after you are filled and before you exit.

    Selling ...
    Place your stop 1 tic below the highest high that forms after you are filled and before you exit.

    I think you will find these two golden rules more than satisfactory.
     
  32. This seems a rather arbitrary choice. The market is neither that clean nor easy, especially these days. What about a trending market? A choppy market? A sideways market? When the market is going against or with your trade? Without testing this idea, it has a questionable basis.

    A better choice is probably to look on your OWN past trading, and try and find decent values that would get you out at an acceptable level, that also maintains overall profitability, and avoids being overexposed/overleveraged.

    One old rule, is use stops that to get out of the 20% WORST past trades for your system on a particular intrument (type). Calculating it separately for shorts and for longs is probably a good idea, since they tend to act differenetly. One may adjust this for any % of trades you elect to have stopped out. Considering ATR/volatility is often also suggested.
     
  33. TZ

    I cannot urge you strongly enough to carefully reread my post.

    A combination of your immense reasoning powers and a full appreciation for what is and what is not possible, will lead you to the conclusion (more slowly than some others) that my stop placement, when applied, will permit you to always exit for a profit.

    Just imagine that, every trade a winning trade and I gave it to you here on ET.
     
  34. You just blew away all credibility anyone could have for you as a trader...

    A) You gave a mindless Trading 101 concept (you think you invented "1 tick above or below"?) As I said, the market does NOT work that way. Unless of course, you care to provide a spreadsheet with thousands of non cherry picked trade examples demonstrating your Trading for Dummies idea.

    B) Anyone who thinks all trades profitable or even gives a hoot about "winning%" is not even to the level of paper trader yet.

    C) The conclusion you seek that you will always exit at a stop, will only repel serious traders who know a juvenile when they see one

    Seriously, which daycare center did you learn how to trade?
     
  35. using stop will never give you a winning trade every time,

    within a period of time, I can achieve that, but not with a stop. Stop will ruin your goal of "every trade is a winning trade."

    you have to let it go and forget about stop, stop is stupid, never use stop, never never never use a stop.

    stop is always associated with loss, hence stop-loss. You never hear stop-win, do you?

    stop is for newbies.

    again, never use stop and you will be liberated, you will no longer be bothered by loss.

    After you give up stop, you will find life is much better, trading is much easier, food tastes more delicious.......














































    ps: you need an unending supply of capital.
     
  36. Hello TraderZones,

    I havent been through all your posts, but you are obviously an experienced and skillful trader who is prepared to share some of your knowledge.

    I guess that you are what ET really needs, as some of the other Posters don't make sense to me.

    jorge
     

  37. Shameless self-flattery.

    You are traderzone himself, you don't deceive me.
     
  38. TraderZone

    Well I did give you the opportunity to re read my post, but you chose the PRIZE IDIOT route instead.

    Anyone who has reached sim stage will tell you that the strategy I outlined is an impossible spoof designed to suck in Idiots like yourself who do not pay attention to what they see, but chose emotional reaction instead.

    There are a couple of simple techniques that when applied soon sort out who trades
    and who does not.

    You allowed yourself to be trapped by one of them.
     
  39. No I am not traderzone, he is someone else
     
  40. there is nothing in your "spoof" that suggests it is a spoof. Instead, you come across as someone who is completely naive. Few would read that as anything other than one of hundreds of naive posts by the flood of newbies and paper traders we get on ET.

    Spoofs are written cleverly enough to make readers think you are joking. You failed miserably if that was your attempt, as it made you seem clueless, not funny.
     
  41. [​IMG]
     
  42. Reading comprehension is not your strong suit, eh?
     
  43. There is an old expression "when you are in a hole, stop digging" otherwise you continue to make a BIGGER AND BIGGER IDIOT OF YOURSELF.

    "spoof" .. the only person sucked into this impossible stop situation was IDIOT TRADER ZONE ... no one else just you IDIOT BOY. A lot of Traders had a good laugh at your expense I'm afraid.

    You are obviously a busy gatherer and poster of information and you can be very useful as a 'gofor'.
    BUT most of your postings consist of generalities, many are superfluous to the real world of trading and some are just plain dead wrong.

    Sorry to be the carrier of reality into your world TZ, but your correct role here on ET appears to be as an information 'gofor'.
     
  44. you keep gyrating, but throwing up a lot of mud to defend yourself and apealing to other imaginary people for support is pretty pathetic.

    Sorry you tripped, and are looking for outs. Your spoof was a gaffe, nothing more. If you are trying to debate, you have not even started yet...
     
  45. Alias
     
  46. Very intelligent response, thank you for avoiding the topic at hand.
     
  47. There is no basis or subject matter to debate.

    You need to find a noobie to impress with your info gathering skills.
     
  48. Stops should work something like this for an intraday trader: Risk 5 tics to make 10 tics.
    More advanced traders like myself use trailing stops to protect a profit while letting it run. With a very good execution platform and a fast ECN you can also make money by executing trades using stops. That's all I can say about that.
     
  49. Yes, you are an alias. Post with your normal ID and you might get a response.
     
  50. newbie----->: SoSueMe

    who is also now joining the ignore list, saved for the truly ignorant such as yourself... *click*

    You may have the last word. I know you will be unable to resist. Most of your other words have not been worth the read...
     
  51. I really got a kick out of the "spoof".

    From the viewpoint of a "market order trader" it was really funny. All market entries or reverses give up the spread as the price of having great timing and being in the fast lane.

    Also, I do not use stops since I trade on the "right side" of the market, only.

    The limit order entry lacks timing in many ways but if a person is not greedy it works. A lot of types of orders can function as stops, so there are many ways of assuring that most trades are profitable by using stop strategies if sidelining is part of a person's trading.

    The OP requested some help.

    My major recommendation would be to always know the side of the market which the market is trading on. If unknown, then exit immediately and find out before re entering.

    Second, it is a good idea to plan out the next several trades, all with respect, to the right side of the maket for the segment of time of the future trades. This type of planning results from knowing the market's order of events.

    Because I follow these recommendations, it made the "spoof" more humorous to me.

    One of the most helpful aspects of trading is "knowing that you know" and its pragmatic construct that is most helpful is the CP4 which points out the zones in which the future price turns will fall.

    I do about 10 to 12 pages of logging a day. One of the aspects of this is that usually a lot of the segments can be filled in, in advance.

    The same is true for stock trading.

    There are about a dozen common ways to use stops. Knowing these conventions is helpful since they all have "tells" which appear as the market moves forward. They are particularly important to watch when the IB's are also closing accounts on various contract levels. Why they are important to watch is that the stops are meaningless as protection for the user at these times. The stops simply are items that turn into market orders at the rear of the que as price continues to cascade further away (in greater losses) from the original stop.

    If a person is a user of stops, then he had better regard the DOM and whih side of the wall his stop is on. Once a person is upside down and the Wall of the market is between him and current price, then he knows he will continue in a losing position but not be taken out. If he sees the wall drop below his stop, then he knows price will move to his stop and kill his trade. Conventional Wisdom usually means he will not recognize to reverse and make money going to his stop or just sideline since he is wrong.

    In trading, most people hold onto their views (thinking being right is a good idea) and then learn failure fairly quickly.

    If a person sets a stop, it is a statement. Being spoofed by spoofs is a statement as well.

    The market has two sides. Sentiment is always present on a given fractal. Which is more difficult? Learning market sentiment or learning to protect betting?

    Price is always on the same side of a line that has a name as old as trading. The side price is always on is the left side. Sometimes it is on the left side of two lines that are sloped in opposite slopes.

    This point in time and relative to a stop is that time at which price is furthest away form the stop (the time of max profits). No sponsors know these things. How do we know that? Wouldn't they be selling the tooling to illustrate how to put stops far away from the most profitable places? This is spoofing isn't it? What sponsors would do is put lines on charts to show when the price is on the left of two opposite sloping lines.

    Why don't sponsors put such lines on your charts you pay for?

    Price goes along on the left of one line. Then it is left of two lines. Then it is left of one line again. This is called a price TURN.

    Is it an exit or an entry? LOL It is a far away from a stop as is possible for a trader who is on the right side (sentimentwise) of the market.

    What is the name for a trader whose stops get hit? Why do traders even need to set stops?

    Now you are warmed up.

    Take a trade.

    Draw in a trend line to the right of your entry and slope it in the direction of the entry.

    Place a stop.

    LOL..... where is that stop?????

    What keeps you in a trade? Price moves away from the trendline.

    When price stops moving away from the trendline what do you do?

    Obviously you move your stop. LOL why?

    Did you ever notice all bars begin inside the prior bar?

    Then what happens? LOL How long BEFORE the end of the bar?

    All trading turns have a beginning and an ending; they are as far away from a stop as is possible.

    Letting your stop get hit happens because it is so important for you to be "right" instead of being rich.

    Thanks for spoofing TZ.
     
  52. Can you explain this statement please Jack
     
  53. can somebody wake Jack up please
     
  54. just updating this with my trades from 2 weeks in December...I didn't manage to solve this issue. On the bright side, I am now more profitable than ever-for these 9 or so days, the account is down a little, but with 160$ stops would have been up 5*, purely based on trades I actually completed. Without using full leverage.

    I need a trading system that does it automatically.

    I didn't find recording each trade in detail comfortable-it interfered with my monitoring of the market. I know that I seldom make mistakes, but when I do-usually through staring at the screen too long, I don't end the trade, I hold on too long. Otherwise, I'm very fast, in and out, frequently.

    Anyone who wants to fund me with a prop account would be welcome. I'll keep persisting, otherwise.
     
  55. improvingstops, some ideas related to stops (just thinking aloud) :

    - try entering in steps : enter 1 contract and wait. Enter the 2nd one ASAP if price goes your way. If it goes against you, judge if you are comfortable with what is going on and enter the 2nd. Else exit and wait for a new setup.
    - Exit half at BEP (or less than half at something at less than BEP, too). That way, the other half suddenly has an improved risk:reward ratio. I need to quantify this mathematically in the future, but it seems like "r:r magic" at this point.
    - Consider moving the stop once the trade runs well in your favour, in the spirit of "Never let a winner turn into a loser"

    I suspect that cutting losers + letting winners run + clever money management while in the trade (partial exits + moving stops) would improve even a random entry technique!

    I'm still learning myself; this is where I am right now.
     
  56. I'll ask ET if they want to collectively get together and gather $98 to give my version of his system another 6 months. Too many technical problems to count in the first. I don't intend on paying to list it again. I may keep track of it's results, though.