Home > Technical Topics > Psychology > Magic and the "subconscious"

Magic and the "subconscious"

  1. just ordered the 'spell pens' and the 'shaman necklace' considering 'spellcasting' the dow

    will let you know how monday trading goes
     
  2. Magic is very real, so real in fact the Christians stole it, renamed it prayer, and then attempted genocide on pagan's to have the power to themselves.
     
  3. Yes magic seems to be real. Whatever reality is. As far as i know it´s about accessing Theta and Delta brainwaves and there visualize and see it as already happened. No pens and necklaces needed :)
     
  4. I'm a member of the International Brotherhood of Magicians. You know us: we are the people who make coins appear and disappear, pull rabbits out of tophats, saw women in half, make the four aces jump out of a deck of cards, and yes, get mauled by white tigers onstage in Las Vegas.

    What we do is (hopefully) amazing and mysterious, but can be learned by anybody. Even born-again Christians, radical feminists, vice presidents of "People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals", Neo-Conservative Republicans, and Gays In The Military can be magicians. It takes dedication and practice, but not supernatural powers. We only SAY that to spice up the act.

    http://www.magician.org/index.htm
    http://www.magicsam.com/
    http://www.geniimagazine.com/
    http://www.magiccastle.com/
    http://www.repromagic.co.uk/resource/society.html
     
  5. I think you're confusing magic with illusion.
     
  6. gentlemen/ladies,

    magic is illusion. magick is something else.

    i was in contact with a chaos magikian several years ago---- the predictions this person made were uncanny, it was enough to be downright scary. i am not easily swayed, but i was truly impressed with what i saw/heard. trickery?? who knows??

    be careful,


    surfer
     
  7. Do you know how to alter your brainwaves?
     


  8. Yes concentration is the key i think.

    Here are some free Metaphysical books. Power of concentration is there

    http://www.psitek.net/index2.html
     

  9. Interesting surfer

    Perhaps with a higher awarness there is only a now!? Or more or less probable futures. Like if we could see everything clearly, there is only a here.
     
  10. Before anyone seriously considers getting involved in Magick they should also listen to this interview with Malachi Martin www.coasttocoastam.com/shows/2002/12/17.html That interview should give one a good idea of the forces that they
    may encounter in their quest. Best to know what you may encounter beyond the door before you open it IMHO.

    As for changing one’s mind state, my experience through the practice of Yoga & Chi Kung has been that each mind state has it’s own breath rhythm and one can easily change their state of mind just by changing (and focusing on) their breathing.
     

  11. I can´t listen to it but he talks about black magick? Using demons? Magick is just focused thinking i guess. It´s much more dangerous to not be able to concentrate
     
  12. Surf,
    If I remember my history correctly, the pagans began to misspell their messages for fear of the christians collecting evidence against them. Magic, out of need, took on many different spellings. Magic it self is a very old word. No modern day illusionist invented the word.

    Not that it matters. Perhaps giving different meaning to the different spellings helps some people, but illusion is just that, illusion.
     
  13. jmho

    When, after a long suffering trading and researching and experimenting you suddenly find that you are anticipating the market, THIS IS MAGIC.

    All else is illusion.
    But there is a good catch. You can trick your subconscious and MAKE it act for your benefit and maybe reach MAGIC sooner than you can think of.
     
  14. Google: 'definition magick:
    Definitions of Magick on the Web:
    http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&lr=&oi=defmore&defl=en&q=define:Magick

    " The art of focusing your will and emotions to effect change in the world around you and the world within you. It is important to remember that magick is neutral, it is neither good or bad... only our intentions are good or bad. Magick will only take the path of least resistance."
    members.aol.com/fadeddragn/dictionary.html

    Changing brainwaves:
    http://www.bwgen.com/
    http://www.majorgeeks.com/Virtual_Hypnotist_d4623.html

    How about 'Psycho-Cybernetics' ?
     
  15. before I take any major position I slay a chicken and spill its blood all over my keyboard.
     
  16. If there are people making millions of dollars by trading the markets using magick, they sure do keep quiet about it. Several other approaches to market success have many visible practitioners:

    Floor Trading: Jon Najarian, Tom Basso
    Naked Options Selling: Max Ansbacher
    Stock Arbitrage: Steven A. Cohen
    Futures Mechanical Systems: Toby Crabel, Monroe Trout
    Value Investing, Stocks: Warren Buffet
    et cetera.

    But there isn't any famous "I trade using magick" multi-millionaire, at least not that I'm aware of. Nor have any of the six dozen top traders profiled in the three Market Wizards books, proclaimed that magick is the reason for their success.

    Perhaps such people do exist and perhaps they're quietly amassing huge fortunes, successfully trading using Magick. If so, they certainly are talented at preventing others from finding out about it.
     
  17. You are only telling half the truth.
    There is more than that.
    :D
     
  18. Introduction and Theormes:

    http://www.hermetic.com/crowley/aba/defs.html

    This introduction provides some insights, but most other writings on this subject seem to be a waste as they focus on the supernatural, but it seems the same can be said of many other systems that start off as an interesting path of science/philosophy and devolve into new age jingoism designed to 'help' you.
     

  19. yes, but magick is hardly a hidden spelling. the way i understand it is the deliberate mispelling ov words is a tool used to mess with order and control.

    surfer
     


  20. i asked the chaos magickian whom i met that exact question. the answer was--- "i don't know why". if you look at the old leaders in that world--- allister crowley, austin osmond spare, etc--- they mostly die broke and mentally messed up. that should be clue number one.

    however, this guy http://www.probablefuture.com/p22.htm claims to succesfully trade using astral projection...... the facts are--he is/was a noted floor trader at one point.

    best,

    surfer
     
  21. That doesn't surprise me at all. Most people attracted to magick usually start off with various meditation, yoga, or zen systems and when the 'results' don't follow or aren't enough to satisfy their egos they opt for the more the more esoteric, supernatural, and fantasy land of magick.
     

  22. Looks like he's into remote viewing which is nothing but OBE/astral projections. Amazonian medicince men have been using this for ages. Tied to an elevated state of being in Kabbalah sufism and Hinduism. What's Deja Vu? Also of interest. US military has been working on remote viewing since the early 60's, wonder what they found so far.
     
  23. They found Saddam in his rabbit hole... :p
     
  24. :p :) On the other hand, it's quite easy to find members of the International Brotherhood of Magicians who are multi-millionaires. What rhymes with "Gopperfield?" Who is David Blaine? When hold-em poker players have a pair of queens, what do they say? Who is Lance Burton?

    "Magic" has its multi-millionaires. "Magick" has, um, an aura of mystery.
     
  25. was quite surprised to see the length of this thread...then again who doesn't like magic/k!!!:cool:


    imo, i am a believer in the self-ability to change/bend one's perception to a different level. My belief stops at the ability to alter your perception so much that others begin to see it as you do! Your brain is mysterious and complex...though not enough as to force an effect on another's.


    when humans try to answer life's mysteries, the best we come up with is magic, fate, and belief.



    RT
     
  26. Im not convinced it (magckik??) can , no.
    Plain old propaganda works so well, after all, who would need it? Seriously?
    As for making money, which i presume is the topic, well who knows.
    The subconscious on the other hand, which is far from a nebulous concept, ive established can do pretty good, IF you can find an effective means of listening to it.
    IF-is a mighty big word, seems to me.
    Oh, any help would be appreciated on that.
    Already have a notepad, have a pen.

    Seriously.
    :)
     

  27. Magick is just a word. Perhaps for something more subliminal but still scientific. Are you sure there are "absolute" realities? What if our senses only register a small part of it?
     
  28. Buddhist/Tibetan beliefs say that tantric practices (chanting while meditating) can result in very powerful Magick.
    The saying is "right handed" tantric practice is while still dangerous can and will give the practitioner powers of magick but the "left hand" tantric practice is using the "dark forces" and downright dangerous to the person who will invoke them.
    http://sangha.net/other-FAQ.htm#attitude to Tantra
     
  29. Hello all...

    When you want to go into that path, beware not to fall into the force of darkness.

    Meaning, in this world there is only 2 sources of supranatural powers, one from God, and the other from the Devil.

    If you want supranatural powers, just pray and get closer to God. If you follow dont-know-what rituals and expect fast results, it is likely you are worshipping the Devil. As a result you will get ur supranatural powers quickly but u fall into the darkness and will be toyed with by the Devil.

    Ok.....

    My friend told me about his former employee, he could 'tap' using his fingers instead of an ouija board. End up in a serious possessed case and talked in a foreign language (It was a language from a country he never been to, but my friend knew).

    So just be careful....

    About that delta and theta...they simply mean states of mind. When you are deeply relaxed, you can remember better, think better, concentrate better, etc. That kind of idea. And if you train yourself, supposedly u can enter this phase as you wish.

    I once saw a demonstration. It was a course teaching people about brain waves. A former graduate was called to the front to demonstrate to us. The speaker chatted with each of us. Asked about what we're thinking. Answers range from burgers to cars to soccer teams to pets. It was amazing, she could remember and recall everything we said, down to details and our names. Including my answer at that time. She could recall my pet, his coat colour, his name, his breed. And thats only from me. She did this for each and every one, close to 20s. One or 2 guys (see, even I can't remember) gave a phone number. You have to be there, it was way too amazing, she could recall even the numbers.

    OK.....but dont use mythical/ supranatural powers. It's too dangerous IMO.
     
  30. Magic
    [​IMG]
     

  31. You don't know the Power of the Darkside...
     
  32. They certainly know about this. Btw, till a few years back, they believed that the moon was a lamp-like object, i.e. not reflecting the sun's rays.

    nononsense
    :D
     
  33. how is it that we got to 2006 and people still believe in devils?
     
  34. Nah! It is dumb silly! We are not kids anymore.
    The so called source of supranatural powers is within ourselves.
    If you can use 15% instead of less than 10% of your own brain, you are God or Devil.
    If you can use 20% you become Zeus.
    If you can use 30%,..., well, I don't know, I am using only 5%, but I know that bogeyman is a fake.
    :D
     
  35. Hoho,
    Is that so?
    How do you know that?
    In what you would call "powers within ourselves", how do you separate "natural" powers from "supranatural" powers?
     
  36. You clearly hold a minority opinion. An overwhelming majority of people believe in God and in good and evil.
    There you got your devil.
    It used to be like that in 0006, 1006.
    It will still be so in 3006, God willing, independent of what vehn 'believes' to be 'correct thinking' for 2006.
     
  37. you are probably right. sad isnt it? i guess it just proves that no matter how far we advance superstition will always be with us.
     


  38. devil

    d--- evil

    evil--- live


    surfer:D
     
  39. Actually I had just watched a Star Wars movie (my 7-year old son
    is obsessed with Star Wars) the night before so I thought it was
    time to repeat Darth Vader's famous line.

    But I do feel kind of weird after eating Deviled eggs... :p
     
  40. I believe that we only use 10% of our hearts.
     


  41. The guy in that link is a lunatic. He needs to get back on his Bipolar medication.


    A excerpt:

    ----------

    What is Shambhala? Where is it located?
    Shambhala is a place in the Himalayas where Elder Brothers of Humanity live and guide our evolution. It is a valley at about 12,000 feet altitude with a main multi-storey tower attached to the rock and a complex network of caves and underground facilities. Read Supermundane (The Inner Life of Brotherhood) for more details. In Tibetan Buddhism, Panchen Lama of Tashiding Monastery is supposed to be an Ambassador of Shambhala who issues passports to enter it. According to Tibetans, Buddha visited Shambhala and gave the Kalachakra Teaching to the King of Shambhala at that time. Christ received his final initiations in Shambhala during his travels in India and Tibet. Maitreya is the current King of Shambhala. Read "On the Eastern Crossroads" for more details.

    No one can visit Shambhala unless one has been Called.


    or


    What is the relationship between MM and Jesus of Nazareth?

    MM was His Teacher and when Jesus could not complete His mission, MM/Maitreya entered Jesus's body and helped bring it to completion.

    ----------


    Someone needs to tell the psychotic loon that .... No "Shambala" does not exist and no "MM/Maitreya" never entered Jesus' body. Now get back to taking your meds and stop using too much meth/crack.
     
  42. regarding the yogi link--i found this interesting:

    <i>What is your attitude to Christianity?
    We embrace Christianity as the Living Teaching of Jesus Christ. We reject Christianity as a set of dead dogmas which stifle natural evolution of humanity on the path of Love, Beauty and Knowledge. Each Christian Church can be tried using the litmus test of similarity with the original Teaching of Christ, His own words and deeds. Those confessions which diverged the most deserve the least of our sympathy. Let's distinguish the Teaching of Christ from the Church and remember what Christ himself thought about the institute of organized religion, churches etc</i>



    surf
     
  43. Sorry paperboy, I just saw your post. With the exception of recent days I do not visit ET that often, but I’m surprised you made the post less than a month ago – it feels like 3 months when I posted to this thread, and I’m amazed the thread even lasted longer than a few days. Malachi Martin to answer your question was a Jesuit priest and well known exorcist. You can download the interview from most peer to peer networks; that is, if you are interested or you have not already done so. He also had a couple of interesting talks with Major Ed Dames who is a remote viewer that worked for the military. Personally, I believe that all religions are the greatest obstacle to the truth, but Malachi Martin had an unadulterated honesty about him that one rarely sees today. I came across that interview some time after he passed away so regretfully I will never have an opportunity to ask him the questions that I would have liked.

    As for the rest of you who are so certain about the lack of a devil or another world to our own (spiritually speaking) you may consider getting hold of that 5 hour interview he did with Art Bell in 1996 as well, or read his book http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/00...104-1639534-9707128?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

    I am sure he will water down your beliefs a little at least.
     

  44. Amen......or something.
    There is a lot (ok, some internet sites of unknown validity) to suggest jc used a wide variety of traditional herbal healing, and a degree of shamanic (pagan) ritual to in fact achieve his miracles, using in all likelihood "subconscious " or mental methods in fact not just common, but routine among buddhist monks, and a wide variety of ayuverdic and traditional healers across the known world at the time.

    Just a thought.

    :)
     
  45. Maybe that's why I feel better after jogging.

    JohnnyK
     
  46. Don't ask me.
    I am using less than 5% of those grey stuff.
    I don't even know why they call it grey!
    :confused:
     
  47. art bell is a nut case. as for the book i liked this review. it sounds like another book to help religious people cling to their superstitions.

    8 of 41 people found the following review helpful:

    Garbage, August 25, 2005
    Reviewer: WhoAllzebub "Jeff" (Canada) - See all my reviews
    People who believe this book is about true events are missing something. If the devil wants to steal your soul then why would he make his existence more obvious. Many reviewers are happy that this book will increase faith in God and Jesus. Do they think that the devil is so stupid as to help their cause by exposing himself just so he can make people act funny? Would it not make much more sense for the devil to let people continue on their way until the supposed judgement day when Jesus will hand these people over to him on a platter. The author must well understand that many Christians are desperate for a sign even if it is from the opposing team. Religious people may tend to embrace any book which gives evidence to their beliefs. If it were so simple then demonology would be a science. The Catholic church is desperate to attract young people back to the church. Religion has always used fear of the devil and death as a way to sway people. It is a very powerful force and the strongly favourable reviews below are testament to this fact. Don't waste your time and your life fearing a phantom.
    How does the author get so much detail? He made it up. It's hard to miss any small point in a story when all you have to do is search your imagination for the answer. It should be a crime to write fiction and claim it is fact.
    You can sleep easy folks. This is obviously religious propaganda disguised as a factual account. Unfortunately, many who read this review will think I am speaking on behalf of the devil. Sad really.

     

  48. I do not know much about Art Bell at all, so did not say anything about him. As for the review that you highlighted, you must have pissed a lot of money up against the wall over the years on dud books if you follow reviews. You obviously carefully sifted through the reviews and selected one that is in keeping with your beliefs. Did you notice however that only 8 out of 41 people found that review helpful, so you must be the 9th I take it? The review is not applicable to me BTW because as I have already mentioned I firmly believe that all religions are the greatest obstacle to the truth (and that is one reason why I like Malachi Martin: because he was honest enough to bag his own church).
    If you had said that you have listen to the 1996 Malachi Martin interview and found it to be garbage, and said why you thought so, then I would have respected that and thanked you for your opinion, but you did none of that. So what can I say to you? I think Mark Douglas put it best in one of his books when he said something like: there is one principle that is guaranteed to keep one in perpetual ignorance and that is contempt prior to investigation.
    If anyone has the exact quote can you please post it here as I cannot recall which book I saw it in and would really like to make note of it.
     
  49. Sure, oxygenating your system through jogging as you do would be a great way of clearing your mind and lifting your spirit.
     
  50. Extraordinary Claims Demand
    Extraordinary Proof

    i sat for 50 years in the pews of churches listening to preachers try to convince me that the devil exists. why would another book by some religious nut convince me now?
     
  51. Proof? If you wait for someone to knock on your door with all the proof that you need you will die like 99% of the people out there: with your eyes closed and in a state of anxiety.

    To reiterate, I agree with your views on the church, and can also see now why you hold the views that you do. But at the end of the day you must make a distinction between the church as an institution and the original teachings that it has so successfully distorted.

    I only suggested Malachi Martin to begin with because the earlier posters were looking at one aspect of the occult as if it were some game and I just wanted to point out to them that it is not.
    In all sincerity, if we can put magic and the devil aside for the time being, I would suggest to anyone that is interested in exploring life at a deeper level to read Eckhart Tolle. Here is his first book: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/15...103-3714431-4702252?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

    I have personally found Tolle to give the clearest expression of the teachings of Christ, Buddha, Krishnamurti, Nisargadatta Maharaj, Ramana Maharshi and many others. He is definitely one person who has seen the truth as it is IMO, but please do not rely on my opinion or the opinion of others, look at it yourself with an open mind and heart.
     
  52. Think and make the Nasdaq go up tomorrow.
     
  53. Well... as Ronny Reagan used to say, if you throw one more straw
    on the haypile maybe it will blow your mind into believing the Devil
    is real and you will find yourself watching Pat Robertson the rest of
    your life saying to yourself over and over: "I never thought the Devil
    was real until I read that one last book". Now I know it's true.

    Thank goodness Pat Robertson will save me from the Devil.

    All I have to do is send him all my money...:p
     
  54. I took a quick look at the pages of your book available on the above website.
    In fact he states that "The word God has become empty of meaning through thousands of years of misuse". Where does Tolle then get his knowledge, as he claims, about the teachings of Christ? This doesn't sound right at all.

    A much more convincing statement is John's:

    And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. And from his fullness we have all received, grace upon grace. For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father's side, he has made him known. (John 1, 14-18)

    Mumbling about 'proof' ain't going to change a iota to this for the thousands of years coming (if any).
     
  55. Hi nononsense

    Tolle’s books are not religious texts, nor does he say anything new to what others have said before him, he just gives a good set of pointers on approaching life that I found helpful, but you may not.
    Having an intellectual discussion on his teachings is pointless, for it is up to you to find the answers within yourself; he just gives you some exercises and insight that may allow you to do so, that is all.
    Here is the shortest of his interviews that I could find. If you find anything of interest in it then great, explore further, if not, that’s also great as far as I’m concerned, for you are the master of your own destiny and not I. Good luck.

    Interview at Omega Institute / Fall 2003

    I came to know Eckhart Tolle's work in stages; first via the printed words of his best-selling "The Power Of Now", then through his new book "Stillness Speaks" on CD, and finally in person at the Omega Institute in upstate New York. Each encounter brought me closer to the man's stillness and his wisdom, which I gauged by the stillness I felt within myself as I absorbed what he had to say.

    Eckhart has a magical, elfin quality about him, and was dressed in a button-down cardigan and corduroy pants. He speaks very softly, but as we got into our conversation, he became quite animated and impassioned. Our hour went by rapidly, and neither one of us moved much from our spots on the sofa as the meeting went on.

    JM: I'd like to talk about your transformation at age 29, where you say your personality was erased. Many people spend their lives trying to get something like that to happen, and here it happened to you at a young age. Can you talk a little bit about that?

    ET: I was unhappy, depressed and anxious. I was not trying to become enlightened or anything like that. I was looking for some kind of answer to the dilemma of life, but I had been looking to the intellect for the answer; philosophy, religion and intellectual inspiration. The more I was looking on that level, the more unhappy I became. I reached a point where the phrase came into my head---and this is in the book "The Power Of Now"---"I can't live with myself any longer." That part of my self---that entity became so heavy and painful.

    Suddenly I stepped back from myself, and it seemed to be two of me--- The "I", and this "self" that I cannot live with. Am I one or am I two? And that triggered me like a koan. It happened to me spontaneously. I looked at that sentence---"I can't live with myself". I had no intellectual answer. Who am I? Who is this self that I cannot live with? The answer came on a deeper level. I realized who I was.

    When I'm speaking about it now, it becomes intellectualized because I'm using words, but that realization was beyond words. What "I" as consciousness had identified with was a very heavy mental and emotional form consisting of thought and accompanied by an energy field. At that moment the identification with that mind structure was withdrawn. It collapsed, and what remained was a spacious, peaceful consciousness. The identification was broken, and because of that, the mental/emotional structure---the psuedo self collapsed. My sense of identity broke down and was replaced by something that is very hard to put into words. Awareness. Consciousness. The words only came a few years later. I couldn't even talk about it. I had been anxious and depressed for years and suddenly I was deeply at peace.

    JM: Do you think your transformation had less to do with achieving peace than letting go of the anxiousness and the worry?

    ET: Yes. It wasn't really the achievement of anything; it was the realization by letting go of the identification. Something suddenly was there that actually had always been there but had been obscured continuously by identification with the heavy mind structure. As I came to work with other people, I realized every human being already has that dimension. No matter how anxious, depressed, disturbed and fearful they may be. That dimension is already in there, in every human being.

    And so I came to understand why some masters sometimes say, "You are already enlightened." That dimension is already in there, it just needs to be discovered. Something needs to be let go of, something needs to be recognized.

    JM: You know, when I walked in here, I had no idea who was going to be here. I'd read your books but had never seen you except in photographs. When you opened the door, it was like the sun was in this flat. I couldn't help but forget any reservations or shyness I may have had, and I almost burst out laughing.

    ET: The reason for this is that in that act of meeting you, there were no thoughts about who you are or who I am. There was the openness of consciousness recognizing itself in another human being. And that is extremely joyful. And it's also joyful for someone who experiences that with someone else, because they feel more themselves in that moment.

    JM: It's rare that you meet such a person. One thing that struck me while listening to your CD ("Stillness Speaks") on the way to our interview is that you say people make themselves miserable and in turn they make others miserable. It hadn't occurred to me that a person who habitually finds problems and "disasterizes" things affect everyone, the same as your smile affects me.

    ET: Yes. It affects everybody else, it draws everybody else into their drama, and it's meant to do that. That happens both on a personal level and you also see it in corporations and politics. I sometimes meet people who work for corporations and some of them have said it's amazing that anything gets done at all considering how much energy is uselessly burned up through inner conflict in the organization. And it makes everyone's life miserable.
     
  56. JM: Yes. I work for a lot of big media organizations, and I'm dumfounded at the wars I see when I walk into some of their offices. And these are people who are telling us what's going on in the world! When you see it on that level, it's easier to take the news a lot less seriously. It's just one person's point of view.

    ET: Yes---and sometimes you find the same even in religious organizations. Because religion in many cases is really ideology. I'm not condemning all religions because that would not be correct, but to a large extent people have not freed themselves from their identification with their conditioned thinking. I know that at the core of each religion there is the truth, heavily obscured in some cases, but it's there. What happens when an organization arises is the amplification of the ego, the ego-ic mind structures.

    JM: You say "all religions"---have you investigated religions? Judaism, Christianity, Islam?

    ET: Yes, some more than others. Buddhism, Christianity, to some extent Hinduism. At the core, the truth shines through. Sometimes we have to look very deeply, but it's there.

    JM: I was also struck by your interpretation of the cross as a symbol of "thy will be done".

    ET: It's a strange dualistic symbol. Basically, it's a torture instrument. To me, Jesus stands for humanity. So this man is nailed to the torture instrument, totally helpless, in deep suffering. At that point comes total surrender to what is. "Not my will, but thy will be done." At that point, the symbolic significance of the cross is changed from being a torture instrument to a symbol of the divine. So what it points to is that the very thing that seems to stand in the way of realizing who you are. The very suffering that comes with being here in this physical realm---because eventually some form of suffering comes to everybody---can become an opening into that which we call the divine. If you're lucky, disaster comes before the physical form is lost and the psychological form dissolves. This sometimes happens through extreme suffering, when people lose everything, or they find out they don't have much more time to live. So they are faced with extreme disaster which cannot be explained away.

    Philosophies collapse in the face of extreme disaster. Before, they might have had philosophy or religious beliefs, but when quite a few people face death of a loved one or their child or spouse, suddenly they question their beliefs. "This wasn't supposed to happen to me, I had a business arrangement with God. I wasn't supposed to suffer." The mind, the "me", collapses. Explanations fade. So you're faced with disaster you cannot explain that seems to deny the existence of something deeper. The cross seems to stand between you and the transcendental dimension to love. But, strangely, that very cross is the opening also.

    Somebody once put it this way: "What stands in the way is the way." And you realize that when you no longer internally resist the form that this moment takes. I call it the "is-ness" of this moment.

    JM: Would that be disaster or the honk of a horn while I'm trying to work?

    ET: Yes. A little thing or a big thing, resistance is basically the same kind of mechanism. An internal "no" to what is. And since the now is all there ever is in your life, your entire life unfolds as the present moment. People don't realize it, but all they ever have is "this". This moment. Always.

    It seems so strange to put it into words. Your life is always this moment. No more, no less. But just "this" is what most people unconsciously trying to run away from. They're always in some future moment where things are hopefully better, or more fulfilling. Or mentally they project a future moment they see as fearful, that they have to tackle this possible thing that might go wrong in the future and they try to deal with now. Ignoring the aliveness that is actually there concealed in now. It is a collective mental habit to run away, to deny and to resist the is-ness of this moment. Not to aligned with now. And everybody inherits that as a part of their collective mental conditioning. They're taught to live like that from their parents, from their schools. They probably inherit even the very minds structures that create that kind of consciousness.

    But there's a shift happening in humanity, a shift in consciousness, happening now because it has to happen now. Because if it doesn't happen now, mankind probably won't survive. The dysfunction of the human mind and its condition is becoming more and more intolerable to the planet, and to humanity. People can't live with themselves much longer. The planet cannot live with humans much longer! The dysfunction has become so magnified through technology.

    Whereas before, a human could kill a few hundred with a sword---if he was a warrior--- now, the same dysfunction is magnified. So we have the weaponry, destruction of the planet, pollution, destruction of forests, countless manifestations of humans using their intelligence in the service of the dysfunction, the madness. It's a strange juxtaposition. Humans are intelligent, but if you look at history or even watch TV, they're also incredibly stupid.

    JM: Speaking of weapons of mass destruction; what do we do about that? What do we do about countries which wish our country great harm? What's an alternative if the other side is bent on suicide, as the men of 9-11 were? If you have a vast Army at your disposal, what do you do?
     
  57. ET: I don't know what I would do, because I can only know what is right in an actual situation which demands a response. It's very hard when you look at hypotheticals. What we can do is look at the dysfunction in its collective aspects that we're witnessing now.

    We can see, for example, what's happening in the middle East with the eternal insane conflict between Israel and Palestine. We can see how each faction is totally convinced that their mental position is the correct one. Each faction sees itself as the victim of the other. There was a writer I read last year who said each side cannot recognize any narrative other than their own; that's also true. Narrative means the story through which you interpret reality.

    People have collective stories which are mental perspectives and mental positions. Of course, when they explain it to you, it sounds absolutely right. Then you go to the other story, and they explain it to you, and that sounds absolutely right. Both are so entrenched in their narrative, their mental positions and their identifications with mental positions that they cannot see anything else. That really symbolizes the very thing that lies at the core of human dysfunction.

    There you see it expressed collectively. An inability to hold truth in your consciousness. To rise above polarities, and say, here's this perspective which is ours, and I can also see the other perspective which is yours. If both could do that---even if one party could do that---there would be an end to the madness. It only gets perpetuated by two. You can see the same in personal relationships, you can see the same in marriages that exist in a state of warfare. Both are entrenched. There is this ongoing need to be right. What that really ultimately means is they are identified with the thinking. They have not stepped out of the structure of thought---their mental position, their thought position. The way out of the madness is to recognize thought as just thought. To see your own stream of thinking, to see that no thought can encapsulate the entire truth in any situation. You have to step out of thought to see that. To become the awareness outside of thought. Some people are driven out of thought out of suffering, others can step out of thought because they see that thought is dysfunctional. So we see then that terrorists that inflict suffering on innocent people, kills thousands, blows himself up---how is it that he cannot see what he is doing?

    He cannot see because he has reduced other human beings around him to a mental concept. He puts a mental label on other human beings or groups of humans or whatever he calls them---infidels, evil. Once you have conceptualized another human being, covering up their essential aliveness, you also do it to yourself. You become identified with your own self concepts of who you are, because you are right, you are the believer, you are in possession of the truth. You can then inflict acts of violence on other humans without feeling anymore because you've already desensitized yourself, you've deadened their aliveness. So violence becomes very easy when you only operate from the level of thought. Thought plus very destructive emotion that accompanies those destructive thought patterns. That's what drives the terrorist. He truly, as Jesus puts it on the cross, "They know not what they do."

    In spiritual terms, they are completely unconscious. Unconscious means identified totally with thought. You reduce reality to a conceptual reality. A lot of violence arises in that way.

    Terrorists are not the only ones who are unconscious. The United States manufactures an enormous amount of totally senseless weaponry. Biological, chemical. They manufacture the most fiendish weapons---if they ever used them it would be hell on earth. Why are they working on this? They are intelligent scientists, thousands of them, the Government sponsors itself sponsors it. What is the purpose in creating such weapons if the use of such weapons would create hell on earth? Haven't they got enough weapons already? So it applies; "they know not what they do." You can see human unconsciousness in so many forms. You can see it very clearly in the terrorists. Sometimes it's easier to see the madness in others---but we also have to see it in ourselves.

    JM: How does one do that? How do you do it?

    ET: Well, primarily it needs to be done on personal level. For example, for me, to see how identified I am with my own mental position when I'm talking to someone when I'm putting forth and idea or opinion and that opinion is questioned by the other person. They might say, "No, you're wrong---that's not how it is." If I can then observe the violence with which I defend my position, I'm actually becoming more conscious because by observing it, something else is arising that is not conditioned thinking, but awareness.

    JM: As opposed to saying, "No, you're wrong."

    ET: Yes, because when people are engaged in being right, defending their mental position, an enormous amount of defensiveness and violence comes already. Why do two people become so agitated, in some cases even violent, when they're defending a mental position? Because that's what they derive their sense of self from. Thought has become invested self. That's the very essence of dysfunction---that humans derive their sense of self through thought. This is a delusion, because who they are is so much deeper than thought. They can only realize that when they detach from their thinking and observe their thinking.

    Who or what is it that is able to observe that you are identified with a mental position? Who or what is it in you that is able to notice the emotional violence that comes as you start to defend your own position? You can then ask, "Wow, what's going on? What am I defending?" You are defending an illusory sense of self---your sense of self and your mind structure.

    That very dysfunction, which looks relatively harmless on a small scale, is the very same dysfunction that drives the terrorist. So it's only in yourself that you can detect it. And if you see it, you see the root of human dysfunction and madness; identification with thinking. But the moment you see it, you are already one foot out of it. The seeing of it is not part of the dysfunction. So in other words, when you see that you are mad, you are no longer mad.

    That's the arising of something new in humanity. I sometimes call it the unconditioned consciousness. But it is also a field of stillness, where you see the torn roots of the human mind. Once it emerges, it's a process that cannot be reversed. It emerges more and more fully, and you become less and less identified with the structure of thought. And then thought is no longer dysfunctional. It is actually beautiful. It can be used for helpful purposes. It's wonderful---you are no longer looking for an identity in the structure of thought because now you know that who you are is deeper. You are the very awareness prior to thought. You are the stillness that is deeper than thought, much vaster than thought. We call it "stillness" but it's just a word. We've reduced it to something. It's more than that. It's consciousness itself, unconditioned. Which is the essence of each human being. It's that when you meet anybody in a state of open, aware attention, without labeling them mentally or judging them, then that you are already operating as a current or conscious awareness between human beings.

    That would dramatically change human relationships. When aware presence operates between human beings, they are no longer dominated by mind structures. On a deepest level, that is also love. That is the only dimension from where love can come into this world.


    When it was time to say goodbye, Eckhart spontaneously hugged me, after which I turned away, smiling. I headed off onto the dirt path leading down to my car and, after walking about 30 feet, I turned and saw Eckhart had been watching me and smiling himself.


    Interview By: Josh Max

    Josh Max is a writer and musician in New York City. This interview was conducted October 18, 2003 at the Omega Institute in Rhinebeck, New York. Josh Max is a journalist whose articles about cars, motorcycles, travel and first-person adventures have appeared frequently in the New York Times, Newsweek, The NY Daily News and other publications. He is also an ordained interfaith minister, performing musician, singer and songwriter. www.JoshMaxsOutfit.com
     
  58. Thanks. Now concetrate on making it go down tomorrow.
     
  59. BVM88,

    Thanks for posting the ET interview.
     
  60. Wow, thanks for that drop today. 2 for 2 Let's go for 3. Do the Wang Dang Sweet Poontang and take the Nasdaq up on monday.