Home > Community Lounge > Politics > Looting in New Orleans..a new low for americans...and why we are minimizing the effec

Looting in New Orleans..a new low for americans...and why we are minimizing the effec

  1. I dont know why the media is minmizing the effects of katrina. But it seems the damage is more widespread and more damaged to the oil and gas infrustature then reported. I think by thursday we will see the damage estimates starting to rise. On another note this must be the lowest that amercia has ever come. People looting new orleans and the outlying suburbs. Those people should be ashamed of themselves. These arent desperate people looking for food, but people looting clothing and electronic stores. These are organize gangs going to homes and shops. An absolute low in american history.
  2. City flooded. No electricity, no potable water, no gas, and no meaningful relief for days or weeks. I can't say that I wouldn't be hitting the local grocery store myself.
  3. Im not talking about looting for food to survive or medicine, Im talking about good old fashion looting. People looting electronic stores, people looting houses for valuables. Those kind of stuff. Organize gangs going through clothing stores with bags of ambercrombie and fitch clothes. Tell me if that isnt sickening. I think the government should have a shoot to kill policy towards these people.

  4. Um. Um.... what' s worse, people stealing valuables, which, for the most part, have little value? <b>or</b> Police shooting and killing unarmed citizens without questioning, arrest, or trial because they THINK that they may be looting.

    It's a sad day, yes. But check your emotions at the door please.
  5. Thousands of people are probably dead by now, the government has clearly not done enough and is still not doing enough to save and evacuate the survivors. Why are you obsessed with looting 90% of which is indeed groceries. Are you sure you have your priorities straight?
  6. I think yes shoot those thugs stealing valuables. Making things worse for people then it should be. I can understand taking food for survival and medicine. But those cretins, those people who are lower then low that steals electronics and clothing making things worse for everybody, I think they should be shot right there no questions ask. I think you would have a diffrent opinion if you see a man stealing jewerly while the city is flooding. And yes I think those people who are looting clothing and retarded stuff should be shot. And a shoot to kill order should be put on.

  7. why???? its because its these people that make situations like these bad even more bad. Its these people that make a situation that is already hell more hell. And dont tell me people looting the local kmart is for food. People could understand looting for food, but stealing clothing and tv's that is insane. People like that should be shot, no matter the age. Those people are criminals and animals, and should be put down like animals.

  8. much of the looting may be a negative psychological reaction to each persons own hatred of the world now, because that own person was SO ENTIRELY STUPID for staying in new orleans during the hurricane --------- after how many warnings???

    it is a by product of the "how could I have been so f***ing stupid to stay here during the storm", YOU f***ing a**holes you owe me now for not dragging my stupid dumb a** out of town during all those warnings!!! I will hate your f***ing a** even more the rest of my life and I will take anything I damn want to because you really owe my dumb a** now and forever!!!

    splush-splush-splush-splush {as I walk away filled with new hatred for you "havers", with 10 new tommy hilfiger shirts stuffed under my arm}
  9. Who cares about the looting, those companies should just write off their entire inventory of those stores and let those poor people have them all imo... real looters that need to be shot are the ones who looted companies like Enron, Tyco, NYSE etc. etc......
  10. Mahram:
    I suppose Canadians would never loot.
    You are truly the biggest Anti-American Douchebag on this message board. If you were on fire I would not even piss on you.
  11. exactly. it takes balls to loot (albeit, misguided ones).

    Miriam, you seem remarkably naive (if not well intentioned) to be the conscience of an entire nation. Did you manage to miss the Rodney King riots?

    i have thought about this and must sum up as follows: in Canada, looting is a monopoly of the government (and its authorized agents).
  12. sorry but the precedent of allowing looting "at will" is a very dangerous move that will not be helpful at all in future disasters {natural or man made}. so after the next major terrorist attack should everyone "know" that running out and looting is a newly accepted norm --- i hope not.
  13. Im not anti american Im anti-stupid. If you were on fire, yeah I would piss on you :D Where was bush when new orleans was drowning, he was on vacation. Yeah its finally a good idea to get back to work, after the disaster and not before. Where were all of the engineers and the scientists, didnt they know high tide was coming. High tide killed more people then the hurricane.

  14. So if somebody robbed your house its a good thing...so dont call the cops because somebody robbed your house. Its open house because its ok according to you pissmo
  15. this is where it exactly belongs. Hurricane katrina and its after effects will have more effect on the economy more so then 911. In fact the implications for oil and gas overshadows anything that 911 caused. This belongs here. Right in front of everybody. Everybody is trying to deny katrina and its effect on the economy, but its going tobe lasting. You have millions homeless, 90% of of gulf oil and gas production offline. The port of lousina which handles a third of oil and gas in the country offline. Also ports that handle most of the grain and products offline for weeks. Not only because it was damaged, but their isnt the man power, infrastructure to take items off and transport them. There isnt even power in the city right now, and wont be for 7 weeks.

  16. Amazing, the rants going on.

    Look at the situation. Alot of the people who are looting are dirt poor. They couldnt leave New Orleans even if they wanted to. No money, no cars, no means to get out of the place. Might not be the case for all the looters, but lets face it, who the heck would choose to sit thru a Cat 5 hurricane.

    So now the stuff that they are ripping off is supposed to be such an issue that Mahram supports shooting them. Alot of this stuff, I am assuming, would probably have been thrown out anyway. These buildings will have to be rebuilt from scratch, infrastructure is destroyed. The contents of which would have been thrown out anyway. You think the owner or the corporations are going to go back and reclaim alot of this stuff? televisions, stereos, other gadgets? no way. To focus all of one's energies on the looters is insane. Give it a rest already.
  17. Will looted Plasmas be on ebay tommorow?

    I hope so..bargain time.
  18. Yes and then the BLS can use the deflationary effects of looted electronics in recalculating their diluted inflationary statistics.
  19. what about the cops looting....while being filmed :eek: :eek:

    now that is stupidity.

  20. there are always people who go, its not going tobe that bad. You see it everytime hurricane season comes to florida. You have people going, its nothing, then complain why they werent warned. Even the news, you didnt have any kind of this is going tobe really bad till the last minute. There is no excuse, during a time of crisis. You think the looting is just individuals looting, its entire gangs of people looting department stores. Organized, and well thought out. These people are even armed. Tell me how you would feel when your house is blown down, and you have a bunch of thugs coming rumaging throught your house. I think you would change your mind and say yeah those guys should be shot. To say these people are poor, its a good reason to act like thugs and pillage and murder. Those people are animals like I said, and should be shot on site. No excuses. Those people should be helping their neighbors not stealing from their neighbors.


  21. I suspect most looters ( not of food but Tv's and clothes etc) are the welfare collecting types who had no money to put gas in a car and leave.
  22. hey, any ETers here down to organize a gang to beat and loot mahram?
  23. lol
  24. Bush was in El Mirage, Arizona. Now, if you know anything, nobody comes to the Phoenix area in the summer for vacation.
  25. I lived in New Orleans for 5 years. It is the most disgusting city in America.

    All those people know is low life behavior. Believe me, those looters for the most part have been stealing all their miserable lives.

    It's going to get ugly too. They should be a good number of them climbing the wall because there dope supply has been disrupted. Crack, Meth mostly. The heat index is forecasted for 105 tomorrow. Give them another day or two to bake in that mess and people are going to start shooting each other.
  26. lol I got to admit I even laughed at that LOL :D


  27. Been to New Orleans a few times. Some parts of town not much different than Haiti.
  28. yeah but stealing during a crisis where people are dying and suffering, and in your own neighborhood. Its like going to the bathroom in your in den, its disgusting. Its not the looting where you can understand like food and medicine. I can understand getting food to feed your family and getting insulin for your kids, but stealing tv's and dvd players. That is wrong, and should be punished by the deepest level of the law. If the last rung of dante's hell is for traitors, then the next one should be for looters.

  29. Actually, a lot of people from the Caribbean go there and scam off the government. Central America too. Honduras is common.

  30. if i was a store owner in new orleans i would instruct the national guard or the police to gut the contents of my store, and donate everything to the best distribution point they have established to give aid to the needy. i agree the contents would all be wasted if not used soon {mainly food items}, so the store owners should have their rights to do with the goods as they see fit. if people are hungry they need to be feed and they need shelter during this period --- actually the city needs a massive forced evacuation for the peoples own good as the situation will only deteriorate going forward. basic infrastructure necessities and security needs to be set back up prior to any population returning to the area.

    new orleans is too dangerous of an area for people to try and live right now --- the city needs to be cleared out for some time to allow an orderly block by block removal of hazards and time to reestablish power/water/sanitation/etc. unfortunately, this is going to take many many months.
  31. You are not getting it. It is not about stealing twinkies. It is about the mentality that drives one to go about ransacking their neighborhood. Its like animals. Civliized people don't do this. Besides they were stealing cigs, beer whiskey TV's what ever. Not just food. Disgusting.

  32. John ---

    you obviously missed this prior post --- i think the looting is wrong!
  33. The problem is you have the American economic poor systematically brainwashed by racist and ethnocentric Leftist advocates, organizations, and educators –all who broke into the mainstream. Looting is encouraged –especially if you are not from “the privileged races and ethnic groups.”

    If you're poor in America, you believe you have been wronged by a "racist American society" and you believe it's the ONLY reason why you are “unfairly” impoverished. So it's okay to loot from "The Man," from time to time.

    Poor people of any race and from any country should be encouraged by optimism, and Capitalism; not discouraged and enraged by the whiny and cynical Marxist Left. Poverty is a state of mind.
  34. Thanks. Sorry.


  35. lol, get the fuck out of here you joker. and you know this because you're poor and impoverished, right? you've sat in on pro-looting encouragement meetings sponsored by leftist on the wrong side of town too, huh?

    you're pissed when you see some poor people stealing budweisers and potato chips? obviously, their morals aren't too solid, but you really should focus your rage on the juicier perpetrators...Ken Lay, Bernie Ebbers, 99% of all politicians...these guys are the true looters that steal on an unimaginably grander scale that the few lowly looters you've chosen to focus on (for whatever odd purpose).

    you have serious problems, dude. today's donkey award goes to you!!

    <font size=6 color=red>Sam123, a real ass! </font>
  36. killaTwill is rolling...LOL
  37. lol I'm loving this tread :D
  38. I'm honored. But the exemption of bad behavior and the judgement of character based on race and class is quite stupid, don't you think?
  39. Jfcquette and Mahram. Cut the crap. You guys really want to say that those dirty poor black people of New Orleans should be shot for looting. Right?? it's a black thing. Right?? Just come out and say it . :D .
  40. mahram, is that you?

  41. ^ lol

    If I was stuck in NO and had to feed a family, I'd be looting everything too. First for food, secondly for things to sell as I've already lost my whole livlyhood.
  42. Its not a black or white thing, its about people looting their own neighborhoods. Making a situation that is already bad even worse because of their actions. Acting like thugs stealing and pillaging. Its wrong. And cut your crap. If it was taking food for your family or medicine anybody in that situation would understand. But when it comes to looting dvd players for god sakes or tvs, yeah those people should be shot. They are wasting valuable man power to police them instead of looking for survivors. I dont care if they are black/white/asian/ or green if they are looting and firing off weopens and acting like armed thug gangs they should be shot on site. No questions.

  43. i agree. in fact it's just as stupid as focusing on the small guys looting when much bigger fish in suits and ties are getting away with murder. it's just as stupid as practicing your pick up lines on women when you're kinda fat, a little sloppy, acne-riddled, ugly as a dog's bunghole,your breath smells like horseshit, your name is Sam123, aw, fuck it...
  44. Ok everybody on the board, if during a crisis, and you found a group of thugs, looting your house, and you had a gun, would you not shoot them on site. I would.

  45. wow, thumbs up for the kin. who would have thought? good post. i am serious.

  46. yes, i would shoot. something tells me you might live in a convenience store and this whole looting thing is making you very nervous.
  47. It's an American thing according to your post title... You like to take
    a crap on Americans whenever you get the chance. You must have
    a very boring life...

    And why the F is this dumb thread in Wall St. News might I ask?...:confused:

    I mean really. This is just another dumb stupid anti-American thread
    started by a Canadian... Talk about a new low...
  48. Are you American?
  49. i'd hold the door open for 'em, and pad my insurance claim.. which is what all these business owner are gonna do.

    i think the citizenry of New Orleans would be better served if law enforcement helped fish dead bodies out of the submerged buildings and streets, so the that stench, rot, and decaying corpses don't do irreparable damage to the infrastructure and water supply.

    for some reason, i think that's a tad more important that shooting someone stealing a pair or Jordans from Foot Locker.
  50. That's no excuse for bad behavior and lawlessness. Sure, there were some emergencies forcing some looting, but the looters were quite aware of the public shelters set up for Katrina. This is New Orleans, not somewhere in the sticks, where they may have to break laws to survive. Losing one's livelihood does not give one the right to take from someone else's livelihood.
  51. Spoken like a true democrat.

    What beyond "GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE NOW" would you like the governement to do beyond that?

    I believe the hurricane was somehow created by Bush/ Cheney and Halliburton to make money for the oil companies.
  52. First of all the government should declare the war on hurricantes (WOH), the next step should be tax cuts for the rich and a few multi-billion dollar contracts for Halliburton. Every american must decide whether he is with the government or with hurricanes which hate our freedoms.

    Given that Katrina came from Cuba we must immediately invade Venezuela as we want to fight hurricanes over there so we don't have to fight them over here.

  53. If the governement truly cared about their citizens they should have sent the love boat to come pick them up.

    Anything less than hand holding, hugging, and fellatio to make sure everyone got out is totally unacceptable in my opinion.

    Who the hell does the Bush administration think they are by making people responsible for themselves?

    Don't they know we are all idiots and can't be trusted to take care of ourselves?

    Man that pisses me off.
  54. LOL. U must be from Canada!?!?!?! Have you ever grown up around an area like Detroit? It is quite clear you do not have a clue to what life is like in some parts of America. I could write a best seller based on what I have seen. Everyone all over the world is NOW surprised by the looting in LA. That is only because the internet NOW lets everyone in the world see what goes on. I was not alive for the riots in Detroit in the 60's but it was the same type of thing. I am quite certain Canadians would have been even more shocked by that. You just can't hide reality from the world anymore.
  55. John,

    U obviously understand. The appropriate word is animals.
  56. Well Sam123, how do explain Haiti, Zimbabwe/anywhere else in Africa? They are all just angry and oppressed because of the left? U are very ignorant if you THINK they need any encouragement to go on a rampage.
  57. How the f are they going to get dvd players plasmas and nikes out of the disaster area, in saleable condition... morons
    i would let them loot big screen tvs with the condition they tie themselves up to them.... ha ha watch them sink.
    there are always morons who loot after disasters in every big city in the world, only another moron would call all Americans morons because of a few morons revealing their moronity.
  58. Of course Bush and Cheney are responsible. We didn't have cat 5 hurricanes when Clinton was in office did we? Obviously it's because Bush is a neanderthal who doesn't care about global warming. Evolution either probably. Why should he care? I only saw black faces suffering in NO in the horrible heat and humidity as they strained under the heavy loads they so valiantly were liberating from Best Buy. Some things never change, and the awful plight of the black man is one of them. Tote that bale, carry that plasma screen, what's the difference?

    And who will profit from the cleanup and the oil well repair work that we are told is necessary? Good old Halliburton, that's who. What a coincidence. I think not. First Iraq, now this.

    If only our planet had paid attention to Cathy Sheehan.
  59. In those countries if you steal a crumble of bread, watch the whole village coming after your asss.... unless you are with the army or the govenrment they are allowed to steal.
  60. Just another way to keep the black man down.

    Just a distration to keep people focused on something other than Iraq.

    I knew I should have voted for Kerry.
  61. Hey, someone please put up a pic of a bunch of white looters. I have not seen any from the 'obviously racist' media. Especially those conservatives at Fox news. Or maybe there were not many whites left because they all got the hell out BEFORE the storm. It's funny, no one can say A = A. The WHOLE world must be RACIST for the showing the marauding africans.

    The best part of this will be the stories coming out afterwards. Especially, from the poor stranded tourists at the SuperDome down there. This is going to be classic. It will be impossible for the high priests of the state sanctioned religion of Political Correctness to silence them.
  62. You just don't get it do you?

    The blacks are just republican operatives to make the black community look bad. Halliburton has a security unit that will be sent to restore order.

    It's just another Bush ploy for Halliburton to profit from.

    Eventually michael moore will confirm this.
  63. Exactly. You are one of the few who can see through the Karl Rove smoke screen. Tell me this. Was it just a coincidence that this freak "hurricane" hits just as Bush's polling numbers are hitting rock bottom and Cathy Sheehan is on the verge of getting her own cable show? And the American people have begun to appreciate the similarities between the Iraqi insurgents and our own Founding Fathers (and Womyn)?

    I fervently hope Al Franken will not let the American people take this sitting down. Clearly, we need to nationalize the oil companies to prevent profiteering. The greedy CEO's who have tried to "loot" the American people through the guise of this tragedy should be incarcerated and the companies run for the public's benefit by a Board of Directors that looks like america.

    Remember, it's for the children.
  64. Your thesis is flawed. The whole village does not have anything because there leaders have stolen everything. The village people cannot eat the dictator's fleet of Mercedes. Of course, sometimes they produce food and all is well. But have no fear a Mugabe is right around the corner to ethnically cleanse the productive members of society and plunge them back into the stone age.
  65. :D :D :D :p
  66. Exactly. They come to the US with the pre-conception that all rich people here have things because they took it from someone else like in their own countries. So looting things from someone else is not bad... the rich do it too...

    The left makes things worse by reinforcing this third-world thinking with their class struggle mumbo-jumbo.
  67. Well, well, well. What do you expect when we have the standards for ethical behavior being set by corrupt politicians and corporate executives. Huh? Fine mess.


  68. exactly - looting or not, the insurance companies are picking up the tab anyway, and after the inevitable federal bailout, that means you're paying for it.

    and it seems some people in new orleans have that one figured out.
  69. :D :D :D
  70. People born into poverty aren't born angry and wanting. It's taught. There are plenty of happy and content people in the world living in shacks without clean water, and with open sewage. Someone has to come in there and tell them they are being screwed and wronged and so forth.

    But while there are a lot of people who think a leaky roof, lack of food, and dirty water is normal, it would drive ME crazy and I would go in a rampage.

    Therefore, since overpopulation is the biggest evil in Africa, I can see a lot of Africans losing a sense of what they had. In that case, I agree it doesn't require much encouragement to go on a rampage.
  71. Most of the looters (yes the blacks you see on TV) didn't go to the superdome because they knew if this happened, they would want to go "shopping"....which is exactly what you are watching on TV now. Those "poor hungry people" passed over two aisles of food to get the plasma TVs.

    TGM is right, I've seen it too. Most of this country - especially the limo liberal world - has no idea what these places or these people are like. Thankfully the internet and TV are giving a glimpse but many still live in denial.
  72. you would think only blacks live in New Orleans...even the cops which they caught looting were black..
  73. Hey, Mericon, here's another new low for Americans, bozo.

    <a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050831/ap_on_re_us/katrina_donations">Americans Contribute Millions for Relief </a>
  74. yeah instead of looting food, they go straight to the dvd player.....go figure huh

  75. Don't give Cheney these ideas

  76. lol I didnt see anybody looting stores during 911. Its because you let a bunch of thugs roam the streets with guns yeah they think they own the place. Thats why I advocate the national guard to shoot any looter on sight and no questions. There bodies laid on the streets in front of the stores to warn any looter. Its an emergency situation not a time for theives to run wild. Its time to take care of these animals..and put them down forever :D

  77. and lol Im not talking about african americans, that nutty person was saying, its about looters. I have disdain and absolute loathing of people who steals goods during an emergency wasting vauble resources monitoring them instead of helping others who are in need of rescue. And yes if somebody dies because the cops are out arresting your ass, instead of helping them, you should be shot on site. How many people could have been saved if you were out looting and pillaging. Yes I could understand for food and medicine, but for dvd players and tvs, you should be shot and your body laid out in front of the store to warn others your actions will not be tolerated :D

    QUOTE]Quote from mahram:

    lol I didnt see anybody looting stores during 911. Its because you let a bunch of thugs roam the streets with guns yeah they think they own the place. Thats why I advocate the national guard to shoot any looter on sight and no questions. There bodies laid on the streets in front of the stores to warn any looter. Its an emergency situation not a time for theives to run wild. Its time to take care of these animals..and put them down forever :D [/QUOTE]
  78. I digress. Now you sound like an intelligent practical person. I agree with you. Although, looting food and water is understandable. But when you are taking Timberlands and Flat Panel tv's ---well you should be shot.

    Of course, they did arrest quite a few people involved in fraud surrounding the 9/11 events. You should look them up. If 9/11 happened in New Orleans. Probable would have seen the same thing. Manhattan is an island and a police state. Cops and Cameras everywhere. It was even before 9/11. Now it is a total police Island.
  79. so if a bunch of thugs during katrina came to your house raped your children would that be ok. Yeah since those guys havent had any for a couple days, and there poor its ok right. Its ok because they are poor and havent had any sex in couple of days,its ok to rape woman and children. According to you, being poor is an excuse. I seen those kind of excuses and its crap.

    QUOTE]Quote from buzzy2:

    Exactly. They come to the US with the pre-conception that all rich people here have things because they took it from someone else like in their own countries. So looting things from someone else is not bad... the rich do it too...

    The left makes things worse by reinforcing this third-world thinking with their class struggle mumbo-jumbo.
  80. thats what I was saying before I could understand looting for food and medicine but going out stealing dvd players and going past the food thats insane and makes things worse for everybody. Not only does it take away man power that is policing you and not recusing and helping others, but its insane. How many people could be saved if those officers were out looking for people?

  81. I think NO is about 70% black..but Ive started looking over the internet at looting video to try and find a white person or hispanic person looting a TV. I havent yet. I'm just waiting for Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton to come out and let the media know they are being racist focusing the camera on all these oppressed black looters.
  82. AH HA !! CNN just showed 3 hispanic men
    taking luggage from a hotel. They're on a roof right now trying to open the luggage. So mexicans are in too.:D
  83. No, I think it is their luggage and they are looking for their toothpaste... or a clean pair of underwear... or
    maybe their black tar heroin?... I would think any left-over burrito's would be too wet to eat... :p
  84. Maybe they're south american.... they're checking if the coke got wet
  85. Yeah, you are right. Nothing like trying to get wet coke up your nose... :p
  86. oh yea but what's in that large duffel bag.. vitamins? :p
  87. Duffel bag?
    you mean the back packs on the white folk.
    or the garbage bag being pulled along by one of " them"?
  88. Touche.
  89. I tend to agree with some of the posters who made an analogy to other disasters. Eg in the San Fran earthquake you never had roaming gangs of looters attacking each other and the police/rescures trying to save people. This is totally outrageous behavior and needs to be dealt with extreme harshness. Anyone who takes a shot at a rescuer/police should be shot on sight, point blank and his corpse left to rot. Just my $0.02




    Police said their first priority remained saving lives, and mostly just stood by and watched the looting. On Tuesday, an officer who tried to intervene was shot in the head and critically wounded.
  90. its not about black and white, its about common sense. You have thugs out there not only looting but shooting at recuers,and robbing recurers. Its unexcusable. These people who are armed and looting were prepared before the hurricane to loot and steal. To say they are poor and black is an excuse its not. They are terrifying there own community. I think these scum should be shot and left on the street....or do what they did in christian times.....crusified so that people could see that this crap wont be taken.
  91. How do you know this? Or are you just talking out your ass.
  92. Oh great. :(
    Just what we need... another trouble maker that just won't die.
  93. I just saw a camera man on MSNBC following around two women police officers in New Orleans Wall Mart. They did not know he was there filming and they were LOADING up carts with goodies.

    He then quietly crept up to them and asked them what the hell they were doing. One police women took the cart away while the larger Police Women took him in the other direction and told the world they were there to make sure there was NO LOOTING.

    He then started laughing as all these kids were riding stolen bicycles by the cameras and all these other looters were laughing as well as going crazy. She then told him. He should not be in the store. He was making it hard for them to do their jobs.

    You see in areas like this the police are more corrupt than the people. New Orleans had a HUGE bust sometime ago by the FBI. Something like half of the police force was on the take from organized crime/large drug dealers.
  94. Oh man, I am at a SBUX and started laughing out loud when I read this.

    No offense to the original poster because I hear what you are saying although probably misplaced, but this is funny.

    nitro :D
  95. guess what all 1500 police officers that were on search and rescue where taken off their duties and assign to police the looters. Now tell me how many people will die now that they stop search and rescue. And tell me why those looters shouldnt be shot, if your child needed rescue but they cant help her because everybody was out policing those morons. If your child died because of that wouldnt you blow the brains out of the first looter you see. I would, and the second and third and fourth, and as many as I could find looting..no matter the age.

  96. You're wrong there was looting so bad that Mayor Schmitz issued a public proclamation ordering the police to shoot and kill anyone seen breaking the law on sight. This was not in his legal authority but he did it anyway. He was driven to this measure by the roaming gangs of violent drunken looters.

    I hesitate to mention this fact because i know its going to make the "shoot 'em up crowd" feel vindicated. Haven't we already seen how stupid a shoot to kill policy can be in the UK?

    There were also a lot of people committing insurance fraud by setting fire to their homes because fire damage was covered but earthquake damage wasn't. Frankly if my home was ruined and i had a family to take care of i'd probably do that too. Given that fact its hard for me to get moral on the looters.

    People sucked back then just like they do now. In other words they're human and as far as I can tell we all suck.
  97. No i'd be more upset by the people who decided that worrying about looters was more important than search and rescue.

    because it turns out that sending officers out to shoot looters also keeps them from performing search and rescue.

    I'll play the empathy game right back at you...

    If you were separated from your child would you want all of america worrying about how to handle looters or how to find your child???
  98. Lets think about this. A pig has a choice, do I save a child, or do I hunt down and shoot a bad guy.. get out of my way kid BLAM! BLAM! BLAM!
    Oh that felt good.

    What does that say about the morals of pigs?
  99. no its because these looters are armed, and shooting and robbing the survivors, and at the same time looting. They are stealing medicine from hospitals and shooting at innocent bystanders. Tell me how they can send in any help if they are shot at by looters. Thats why they need all the cops back to reign in the looters. Tell me how you feel when a looter, feels like he hasnt got any in a few days and decides to take it from your wife or daughter. I think you get the idea why the police has to reign them in.

  100. heres the thing rescue vehicles with supplies cant go into areas where help is needed because you have a bunch of thugs with guns shooting at them and trying to loot the medicine and supplies. Thats what is happening. And tell me why the police shouldnt shoot these bastards.

  101. the armed thug looters arent human they are animals and should be put down as animals. There bodies should be laid on the street for everybody to see, and then there heads decapitated and left to rot.

  102. If someone is firing a gun at you and preventing you from search and rescue, great i agree with you they should do what they need to do to disable the person and continue with Search and Rescue... but its a long stretch from that to the wholesale slaughter you are advocating.
  103. Oh i'm an idiot you're just trolling...good job.
  104. LOL reports coming in from people on the streets and reporters say most of the looting is valuables, electronics, and money. So get your facts straight, and get your noise out of your butt. I dont think gap and A&F clothing is food. Unless you like eating poleyster and cotton. These thugs are armed and raping and killing people for money and jewerly. These people should be taken care of. I belieave thats what they did in Iraq.

  105. no, I belieave if people are looting and shooting at rescuerers they should be shot on site, no questions. :D

  106. Why don't you stuff you're faggot commie POS mouth with a dick sandwich. You're the pig dude. You're slime. Wise ass prick.
  107. Many older people reported didn't leave because they anticipated the level of lawlessness and worried about leaving their homes and possessions unattended.
  108. If the pigs are too cowardly to help people when they need it, I say get some real cops who are brave and honorable.
    Shoot the coward pigs and leave them to rot.
  109. Looks like even the older people don't trust the pigs. Go figure.
  110. Why are you arguing with him? He is a sick self-righteous idiot. Thousands, maybe tens of thousands people are dead or dying and the degenerate is concerned with Walmart's property which will be written off anyway. Leave him alone, he does not need your arguments he needs a good psychiatrist.
  111. no its about thugs who are carrying weopens going in gangs stealing and raping throught every neighborhood they can find. Im thinking of survivors and how so many resources have tobe taken off search and rescue to police the thugs who are shooting and robbing rescue vehicles and rescuerers. Im sure if you saw the video of an ambulance being attacked by thugs with guns , trying to get to a man dying, Im sure you would change your mind.

  112. You know, it just makes me angry to see the priorities of city/state/fed leaders during this type of emergency.
    Those guys are so worried about the walmarts and insurance cos. taking it in the shorts.
    They have hundreds of thousands of homeless people, and no plan to set up a refuge camp. :confused:

    They keep telling these people to get out of town or we'll kill you. But that is just stupid, Where are these folks going to go?

    Bush wants us to donate our money..for what? I'll not give the bastards a dime.
    But I'll go buy a cabin tent and sleeping bag and such things for a family to live on their own. Not a dime to a tax free corporation.
  113. Well this thread is still going strong. LOL.

    The interesting part is that the looters will not be able to get out of town with their loot. They just said that the forced evacuation was in full gear and people would have to leave all their goodies.

    I am waiting for clashes between the looters and the Marines.
  114. Oh yeah, now all of a sudden it's about shootings, rapes and armed robberies. If this is what this thread was all about you should have made it clear. Nobody would have disagreed with you.

    But that's not how you started the thread, if you re-read your own first two posts you'll see that your primary complaint was with people taking clothing from ambercrombie and electronics from best buys. People were dying, the government abandoned them and was not doing shit and you were whining about Ambercrombie and Fitch junk. That's disgusting.
  115. New Orleans has the highest per capita murder rate of any major city in the U.S. Ironically the jump in homicides was news just a couple of weeks ago. So yea, New Orleans is a dangerous place. Don't be misled by the news reports. The "looting" is more criminal than just poor, hungary folk stealing essentials. Firearms are one of the most sought valuables among these looters. Not to mention THOUSANDS of addicts are drying out in the wettest of conditions. My prediction: New Orleans will NEVER truly come back from this. It was always just Detroit with charm, but I don't think tourists will ever get this image out of their minds.
  116. looters should be shot on site, tagged as looters and buried. End of story. TFN.
  117. I certainly agree that violent criminal activities in NO should be dealt with harshly, there is no doubt about that but that's not what the thread was about when mahram started it although he changed his tune later.

    BTW The administration should have been prepared for this, it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out what was going to happen should the city be destroyed/flooded. Especially given this administration's experience with Baghdad looting. They should have had thousands of police officers from all over the country standing by and ready to be brought into the city hours after the hurricane. Another case of criminal negligence.
  118. What a ridiculous comparison. Federal aid RESPONDS to state disasters. But proactive measures in terms of natural disasters are the responsibility of the states.

    By the way, people who persist in the tired rear-view-mirror whining about Iraq reminds people why they should vote Republican in the upcoming elections.

  119. Pre-Landfall: Approximately 115 DoD personnel were engaged in pre-landfall response operations with liaison teams at state emergency operations centers.
    The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers (USACE) provided prime power teams and technical assistance to ensure FEMA generators were operational. Pre-scripted contracts for ice and water were activated and numerous USACE planning teams were deployed to Federal and state emergency operations centers.
    Approximately 3,439 Army and Air National Guard troops were activated under state control for State Active Duty. They assisted in providing traffic control for the largest peacetime evacuations many of these states have ever seen. They provided security, transportation, and aviation assets, medical support, and emergency power and communications in each of their states.
    The DoD Director of Military Support (DOMS) established a 24-hour Crisis Response Center at the Pentagon in support of FEMA as the Lead Federal Agency. DOMS established contact with all potential DoD response organizations, coordinating requests for DOD assistance.

    Of course that was Clinton's response to hurricane Floyd.
  120. The view through the wind shield is the same view as the rear-view-mirror.

    It's getting a little tiring with the same scenery.
  121. I don't think he's upset over Walmart's shit getting stolen.
    I think it's the whole concept of a major North American city falling into complete anarchy.

    Today's New Orleans reminds me of Dinkins' New York. When criminals are running wild on every street raping and pillaging, making the whole area unlivable, the natural reaction of decent people is to wish for a fascist control-freak to come and save the city. Giuliani was that fascist, and watching New Orleans burn, I can easily see why he was welcomed into NY's city hall.

    Hell, I'm a Libertarian, and I think giving Rudy Giuliani immediate control of all N.O. rescue & policing efforts is probably a good idea!
  122. I think Rudy is too busy preparing to be the next President of the USA... :)
  123. Those of you who are sympathetic to the looters are missing the most important point. If the police do nothing to protect these businesses, what is the incentive for any business to serve inner city blacks? Who will rebuild there if they know that the first time blacks get pissed about something or have an opportunity to freely steal your entire business or burn it, that they will line up outside to do so. Look at LA, Detroit, NY, DC in 68 and all the other places that have burned because these people got pissed. The black community is always bitching that stores won't come to the inner city...gee I wonder why.

    By the way, the police have no business doing search and rescue. There are thousands of first responders trained in the business down there doing the job. Most street cops have near zero training in search and rescue in a compromised environment.

    The cops need to do their jobs and make it safe for those trained to rescue those that can still be saved.
  124. Just wait till the world hears about the horrors in the Superdome. They will be some wild tales.
  125. Late Wednesday, Tenet Healthcare Corp. asked Louisiana State Police and the U.S. Coast Guard to help evacuate one of its hospitals in Gretna after a supply truck carrying food, water, medical supplies and pharmaceuticals was held up by gunmen. (Related story: Looting rampant)
  126. To hell w/killing looters on sight, let's start shooting people who download free music. I bet lotsa these folks are white. I mean, would a black download Inna Godda Davida?

    Equal Opportunity Looting - brought to you only on the internet...

  127. how long do you think it would be for the men who are going nuts with unlimited power and they are armed to the teeth, decides they can take what ever they want. Including raping some woman in the middle of the street. Its only the little jump to that point, if a man can shoot a police officer right in teh head in front of the police station right now, then why not. So tell me if my shoot to kill order isnt justified.

  128. Shooting to kill is not justified at all.

    These are not your typical armed suspects, but looters.

    Use Tasers and other non lethal weapons to enforce the law.

    This is a bit like a riot situation, and in riot control they don't shoot to kill unless those who are rioting are armed.

  129. would you be the one to shoot them? its easier said than done.
  130. animals i tell ya animals.......according to brandon 70% of new orleans is black yet from what i see in the tube 99.999999999% of the looters are black....
  131. They are not showing the looting at red neck stores....

  132. When martial law is declared the looters and everyone loses their civil rights. Looters can be shot without arrest under the law. The purpose of martial law is not to protect property but to restore order.

    In most past cases after a few looters were shot order was restored.

    It starts with looting food and water. Then it progresses to TV and clothes and cars. Then it progresses to stealing food and medicine from hospitals and then to killing people for their possessions. In other words "anarchy".

    So martial law is the result and the solution. Sadly enough.
  133. Essentially, it is riot control. Looting is a riotous type of action, and in riots they don't shoot to kill.....

  134. It's too early to tell how the Feds will respond to Katrina.

    Of course, as usual, you pinheads are trying to connect the levy failure to Iraq by harping on the issue that federal monies were diverted to the war and homeland security efforts, which may have otherwise gone to improving the levy last year.

  135. Right now there are reports that the people walking around looting are randomly shooting at police and that they are shooting at the air ambulances evacuating babies. These people are animals. They should bring in the army and just start shooting them. The world will be better for it.
  136. Bullshit. We are not a more civilized society by gunninng down people during times of crisis.

  137. I agree....these f**king mooks are out of control....crazy...Where are Jesse Jackson and Sharpton??
  138. The government's response to Katrina has been wrong from the get go, but what do you expect from a city and state ruled by corrupt Dem's? The police have no business trying to control this situation. They are trained to beat up college kids at Mardi Gras, not deal with armed looters.

    Clearly, a more forceful response is required. I say bring in Apache attack choppers and declare all of NO a free fire zone. Probably the vast majority of those shot like rats scurring around a garbage dump will be career criminals anyway, so we would not only be stopping looting but eliminating that pesky recidivism problem as well. And instead of evacuating NO, we should fence it in and force those who wanted to stay behind for looting to remain there. See how much fun it is with no crack for six months.
  139. _________________________________________

    To my understanding that is all allowed under martial law. There may be some questions about who declared it but the Lousianna law should spell that out.
  140. they must be going crazy....
  141. 72 hours after the hurricane three states are in total chaos, there are no organized efforts, not nearly enough police, the military are not available, the national guard is just being deployed three days too late. Three days after the hurricane there is no supply of food, water and medicine, there are no evacuation procedures.

    That's too bad that in your partisan fervor you fail to see the obvious that the administration has failed once again. You know what, go to the nearest gas station, fill up your car at $5-$6 a gallon and spend the rest of your day dreaming how you'd personally like to shoot people taking Nike shoes from Foot Locker and how it's all Clinton's fault.

    PS Local and state officials are just as incompetent BTW regardless of their party affiliation.
  142. Why is it that the gov. has to import people to do the cooking and cleaning and setting up and such things?
    It seems to me that if the national guard came in and put all those refugees to work cleaning up their own city, helping with evacuation and stuff, there would a whole lot less time to do evil business.

    For god sakes, give those people something to do. Don't treat them like they are helpless morons.
  143. well apparently your solution has led to the looters now shooting at rescue heliocopters. Like I said bring some gunships and maul down the looters. Once you get 30 dead gang members riped to shreds the sitauation will be over. end of story.


  144. Well I did see one Southern white man sitting out front of his place of business with a gun (shotgun if I remember correctly) there were signs up stating ----you loot ---I shoot. That is a good citizen for you. Keeping the peace.The looters weren't coming near his place of business.

    I bet you money that those PC fools in the Media are trying to find whites looting in mass to make sure they don't get accused of racism. I have yet to see it on the news. I did see a white women crying. That is about it.
  145. No response? From either side?

    Buncha paper-tigers...

  146. What is your point? People that download music are causing financial losses to the music biz. Just the looters are causing financial losses. However, the looters are over the line. I don't care what color they are. I don't care if they steal twinkies. But these guys running and breaking stuff to get non survival stuff look like a bunch of criminal fools.

    I guess if a bunch of white people were stealing music on a reality tv show ---it would look just as ridiculous. However, those fools in Orleans are wreaking havoc for no reason whatsoever.

    Your analogy is a little far fetched. I did notice some white people got the fined up the @ss for downloading music. Maybe they will fine some of those looting cops carrying out CD's and CD players? Sure people steal and go crazy. But how many folks are stupid enough to do it on live tv for the world to see?
  147. No reason?

    If you were poor and black, would you expect the Bush adminstration to take care of you?

  148. Well I am not STUPID enough to EXPECT any politician to care for me. Idiot....Anyone that does is a Naive fool at best or at worse a COMPLETE MORON.

    Politicians are all fools and liars. Always have been ---always will be.

    the following should be read:


    I don't care what they look like ----attacking old people in nursing homes in your OWN community is stupid.
  149. No doubt if you were in their shoes or bare feet, having lost your home, having no where to go, sleeping like a homeless person, you would be verrrry rational....

  150. I wanted to quote this in its entirety, since only then can it be believed, but let's stress some highlights:
    Yes, I know, it's only right to steal from certain people in certain circumstances.
    (Speaks for itself.)

  151. yeah but we are talking about the arm thugs who intentionally stayed behind to loot and steal. The ones shooting at rescue helicopters, they are the majority of the ones going in gangs throught neighborhoods,robbing everything in sight.

  152. A cop sees someone running from a building with a stereo in his hands.

    His first response is to shoot him?

    In what world do you live in?

    The fact that we don't have a national guard presence in there right now is Bush's fault.

    If there was a national guard presence, or sufficient law enforcement...

    Shit, we have reporters and others taking videos, but no law enforcement?

    What a fucked up "HomeLand Security" system Bush has created.

    Homeland Security is sending the National Guard to fight in Iraq?

    Geez.....how pathetic, and undefensible.

  153. its called a state of emegency, if Im not mistaken thats the law, or should I say martial law. How would you feel if that same thug who was stealing a tv decides its ok to rape your daugter, mother, or wife. Its only a jump, to that position when theirs lawlessness.

  154. Enforcement of the law doesn't require shooting folks.

    The problem is that we have no National Guard presence, they are off fighting in a bogus war.

    We have no army reserves to call up to help, they are off fighting in a bogus war....

  155. "I think there ought to be zero tolerance of people breaking the law during an emergency such as this, whether it be looting, or price-gouging at the gasoline pump or taking advantage of charitable giving, or insurance fraud," Bush said in an interview on ABC's "Good Morning America."

    Iraq? That's where the National Guard is, right?
  156. Uhhh, Halliburton no compete contracts in Iraq?

    Uhhh, Enron's gouging of electicity prices in California in 2000/2001?

    Zero tolerance?

  157. So perceptive of you AAA. Let us filter all events through our veil of ideology. Wonderful.

    Thanks for explaining, too, that the propensity to loot is based primarily on skin color. And for implying that dark skin automatically makes one inferior, despite all scientific evidence to the contrary. Good to have these nice, simple explanations for everything.

    What is it like to live with such a shriveled up pig-heart in your breast? Life must be full of joy for you.


  158. I disagree, these thugs are now armed and roaming around like they own the city. These arent regular folks, these are gang members who puposivly stayed to loot and destroy. Why do you think they are shooting at rescue helicopters, destroying whatever communication equipment they can find.
  159. What a transformation -- from New Orleans to Mogadishu in a matter of days! Didn't take long for the tribal instincts to kick in...

  160. hcour,

    By the way you are interpreting these things. I am guessing you are black. You and the zzzzzzzzzzz man are getting offended by something. Which is good. You should be offended. But not at the posters who are stating A = A.

    If the looters were all Irish I would be too embarrassed to start drive by postings on this site in defense of their actions. That is a natural decent human response. I would not be defending the carnage by stating the usually pathetic line "they are oppressed" and all the other garbage rationalizations you spewed.

    Frankly, I don't care what color you are. But these literalist interpretations of "lets read too much into his writings and oh he is applying a double standard" wreaks of "angry african". Or a stupid self effacing liberal.

    And as far as CD's are concerned. Who gives a sh$t about those? I was stating what they SHOWED the Cops doing. Meanwhile you have a bunch wild animals roaming around attacking innocent people. Wait till we start hearing about the rapes and murders.

    If you can't face reality. Go cry in the corner. Making excuses for people committing acts of violence is insane. If this was just about food and water and a couple CD's, there would not be such a outrage across the planet. There are planty of law abiding citizens (of all colors) making the best out of a horrible situation. I hope the National Guard shoots to kill when it comes to the thugs/looters.
  161. CNN: New Orleans hospital halts patient evacuations after coming under sniper fire, a doctor who witnessed the incident says.
  162. LA National Guard is deployed. Which is tragic. However, the Democrats are just as stupid. Nothing would be any different in New Orleans with them in office. With one exception, they would be on TV rationalizing the robbing, raping, shooting with the patented "they are oppressed victims---they are only acting like thugs because of decades of racism".
  163. Heh. Exactly.

  164. I guess the sniper was oppressed. You know they have a bunch of crack feigns in New Orleans. I grew up in Detroit and there is nothing more dangerous than a crack addict who has went without a fix. Very dangerous.
  165. Another classic Zzeal10 moment. He says this:

    but when it's pointed out that the looters are indeed armed, and shooting at air evac helicopters, police, and hijacking hospital supply trucks, he responds with:

  166. This is an excuse for carjacking a nursing home bus?

    This is an excuse for shooting at police?

    This is an excuse for firing on air evac helicopters?

    This is an excuse for sniping at hospital staff trying to evacuate?

    Of course it is...to the lib apologists.

    If you're black, poor, pissed off, and want to endanger or harm other people in a crisis situation, Zzeal10 and his ilk give you a free pass.
  167. Is this a setup for some kind of Punk'd thing? It's a joke, no?

    Stop the Madness. Shoot ET idiots on sight!

  168. I'm afraid if that was to happen, ET would find itself to be a very cold, dark, empty and lonely place.
  169. Z10 wants and rants for the NG but he doesn't want them to do anything about the looters. Typical leftist non-idea.

    Maybe the reason he doesn't want looters shot is that they all look like good Dem. votes.

    NO is controled by Dems. through and through. From the mayor on down.
  170. As usual, 'Lil z gets it wrong again. It must really be frustrating to wake up every day as 'lil z. The country sucks, the president sucks, Republicans suck, the army sucks, the police suck, my trading sucks. Maybe you did a little research before posting you wouldn't look soooo stupid. I cite the follwing......

    Sept. 1 (Bloomberg) -- President George W. Bush ordered eight U.S. Navy vessels and almost 30,000 military personnel to the four Gulf Coast states ravaged by Hurricane Katrina to begin recovery operations that he said could take ``years.''

    WASHINGTON (AP) - Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said Thursday that 1,400 National Guard troops per day are being sent to New Orleans to control looting and lawlessness, quadrupling its regular police force by the weekend.

    Already, 2,800 National Guardsmen are in the city to help local police since Hurricane Katrina produced devastating floods in New Orleans, Chertoff said at a news conference with Attorney General Alberto Gonzales. Another 1,400 Guard troops and military police units are being added daily, he said.

    WASHINGTON — The Pentagon said Wednesday that it will add 10,000 National Guard soldiers from around the country to areas of Louisiana and Mississippi ravaged by Hurricane Katrina. A combination of troop callups and recruiting problems has left the two states with fewer of their own troops to provide aid.

    WASHINGTON — The Army National Guard, already stressed by deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan, is doubling the number of troops it plans to send to the Gulf Coast as it shoulders the massive relief burden for Hurricane Katrina, Defense officials said Wednesday.

    The number of National Guard troops is expected to double to roughly 21,000 by today, for a total military force of about 28,000, including active-duty forces from the Army, Navy and Air Force.
  171. That you would try to politicize this disaster is as base as you can get.

    The fact is that we don't have enough law enforcement on the job to deal wiht the problem.

    This is not a democratic or republican problem, this is an American problem and we are bereft of leadership in D.C.

  172. So only after we see the looting that was predicted by many, Bush decides to take action.

    It is Thursday already.....just like watching the 7 minute delay of reading a child's book while the country was under attack.....another example of Deer Bush in the headlights.

  173. I wish you would show me where I said any of that. I just said use a chopper to mow them down. I am a uniter, not a divider.
  174. ______________________________________________

    Nearly every post to this thread you have made has had some kind of political overtone to it so a little responding in kind only sets the record straight.

    You are amazingly blind to your own follies.
  175. I believe it is time for President Bush to release some blow from his personal SCR (Strategic Cocaine Reserve). :D
  176. I'm sure the libs would have been SO appreciative of Bush taking pre emptive action against BLACK looters.

    Besides, when the flooding started Monday, the logistics of housing troops and transporting them around the flooded city would have been impossible. Thankfully no additional people were put at risk by being on the scene too early.
  177. If it keeps on rainin', levee's goin' to break
    When The Levee Breaks I'll have no place to stay.

    Mean old levee taught me to weep and moan
    Got what it takes to make a mountain man leave his home,
    Oh, well, oh, well, oh, well.

    Don't it make you feel bad
    When you're tryin' to find your way home,
    You don't know which way to go?
    If you're goin' down South
    They go no work to do,
    If you don't know about Chicago.

    Cryin' won't help you, prayin' won't do you no good,
    Now, cryin' won't help you, prayin' won't do you no good,
    When the levee breaks, mama, you got to move.

    All last night sat on the levee and moaned
    Thinkin' about me baby and my happy home.
    Going, going to Chicago... Going to Chicago... Sorry but I can't take you...
    Going down... going down now... going down....
  178. Does the post below sound like I am punking someone?

    And yeah if any of the looters are ET posters. I would not spare them.


    By the way you are interpreting these things. I am guessing you are black. You and the zzzzzzzzzzz man are getting offended by something. Which is good. You should be offended. But not at the posters who are stating A = A.

    If the looters were all Irish I would be too embarrassed to start drive by postings on this site in defense of their actions. That is a natural decent human response. I would not be defending the carnage by stating the usually pathetic line "they are oppressed" and all the other garbage rationalizations you spewed.

    Frankly, I don't care what color you are. But these literalist interpretations of "lets read too much into his writings and oh he is applying a double standard" wreaks of "angry african". Or a stupid self effacing liberal.

    And as far as CD's are concerned. Who gives a sh$t about those? I was stating what they SHOWED the Cops doing. Meanwhile you have a bunch wild animals roaming around attacking innocent people. Wait till we start hearing about the rapes and murders.

    If you can't face reality. Go cry in the corner. Making excuses for people committing acts of violence is insane. If this was just about food and water and a couple CD's, there would not be such a outrage across the planet. There are planty of law abiding citizens (of all colors) making the best out of a horrible situation. I hope the National Guard shoots to kill when it comes to the thugs/looters."
  179. LOL. There would never be enough law enforcement for this type of disaster. The Louisiana National Guard is in Iraq. They are bringing them in from other states.
  180. There is ALWAYS an excuse for such nonsense donchaknow? If there is NOT an excuse ----they will make one up.

  181. That is the funniest thing I have read all day!

    There is no point in making this political. It's not like New Orleans is a Republican stronghold. :D
  182. :eek: nitro :eek:
  183. _____________________________________________

    Lousianna total Guard numbers as of 8/31/05 are 11,500.

    Deployed around the world 3748.

    Deployed in Iraq 3500. 256th Infantry Brigade including about 450 members of the 1088 Engineer Batallion.

    Remaining in Lousiana about 8000 troops. Including the 225th Engineer Group(combat) with its four organic Engineer Batallions well suited for disaster relief.

    The 225th is touted by the Lousianna Guard as being the largest engineering group in the reserve.

    The infantry, tanks, bradleys, and howitsers are in Iraq the engineers and their equipment are still in Lousianna

  184. Well I fell prey to propaganda!! Thanks for alerting me.
  185. Snoop Doggy Dog is planning on making a video of the looting, calling it "Looters Gone Wild" Nawlins style.

    Check your local listings for times and dates of infomercial.....
  186. ok these guys couldnt handle a storm that they had weeks to prepare for, imagine what could happen when something that happens totally unpredicted like a huge terriost attack. If the government cant handle a small city like new orleans, what would happen if terriosts nuke la or huston or something like that. They dont even have communications up yet. I think bush wasted the billions used to prepare for a disaster.

  187. Its amazing. Id hate to see what happens when california eventually has a major quake. Its bloody disgraceful, the rescue efforts and the people.
    But sure as shootin, if those helicopters did land, they would be overwhelmed, possibly crash and the gaurds would likely be forced to shoot people.
    Guess thats why they teach people to approach drowning people with a long stick or object, because just as likely they will drag you down with them given the chance.
    Does anyone know, what percentage of people can swim in these areas?(and dont say, a lot mre now)
    How far would people in the city or the dome have to swim/wade to get to the nearest non effected area, find some decent amenites and shelter?
    Bushs flyover might have been more meaningful if hed done it in a herc, and airdropped rubber ducky boats, the smarmy prat.
  188. its probably the nation average right about 32% of people can swim. But you have alot of sick people who are getting illnesses in the water. Its full of industrial waste, chemicals, pesticides, bodies, and human waste. And its hot so Im guessing its hell on earth right now.
  189. Well, today, as I write this, the situation is awful. It's terrible. This hurricane is the worst by several magnitudes, and it hits the largest city in one of (if not) the poorest state.

    I've been to New Orleans, and the pictures I see now are just terrible. I think the federal delay is due to miscalculation regarding the flooding damage caused by the levy breach. It’s like the 1906 SF fire doing more damage than the earthquake that caused it.

    Having said that, the “Opposition Party” media is using this as their next Cindy Sheehan. I expect future criticism about the Republican party advocating small federal government and greater state jurisdiction, when here we have a poor state wiped out by Katrina.

    But Bush responds in good form by pleading to the Private Sector. Yes, the Private Sector can do quite a bit in times of need.

  190. And quite a bit the private sector is already doing, they call it mutual sacrifice in times of need:

  191. death, destruction, rape and general misery for others

    loserboy, you must be in hogheaven
  192. You gonna tell me you are not scheming how to profit from this disaster as a trader?

    That's the American way, isn't it? How to best profit from the misery of others?

  193. The federal and state governments already said they would address the gouging of gas prices.
  194. well duhhh this is called elite trade's not huggy feeling.com. Yes we care about the people who died and suffer but our jobs are traders. We have to think about the consequences of katrina and how we can profit from it. If you dont think about the consquences and how to profit, why are you here and what are you doing as a trader.
  195. I was just watching the report onthe people in the hospital and the thousands stuck at the convention center. How long does it take to get people in there? I mean we can fly across country in 5 hours, those people have been there without food and water for 4 days! Babies, old and sick people, WTF?

    The whole country should stop business as usual and take a week for everyone to help these people out and get then set up in a sustainable situation before we continue life as we know it.

    This isn't some far flung place, this is happening right here in our beloved country. Those involved in ongoing operations on the ground are amazing but where is their support? Communications is severely lacking, why haven't the military gone in with a massive communications set up, Level 3 donating thousands of radios etc. The 40K troops should be there already, they could have driven there by now from around th country. It isn't time for the blame game yet but this is a freakin disgrace.

    I usually can't watch Fox news but even Riley and Scarborough are beyond spin on this one and thoroughly dismayed at what is going on. Scarborough made the point that people were told not to just show up with trucks of supplies like they did in Florida as the agencies said they had it all under control, clearly that was bad advice. They don't have anything under control down there. NO is grabbing all the attention right now but there rae so many other areas that have been hit that are in the same situation, people with no home, no food , nothing for the last 4 days. Saw an old couple who said that they wished they had drowned in their home and hadn't eaten in 4 days.

    Where are the air drops? What are they doing using resources patching up the levees when their are babies dying for lack of water, milk etc.

    Donating to the red cross just seems so inadequate. Speaking of the Red Cross, where are they? I haven't seen any evidence that they are getting supplies to the people who need it? Why haven't they chartered chopper setc from around teh country and started air lifting in food and water to the people in teh convention center? Do i need to rent a Uhaul here in Boston load it up and drive down there, is that what it has come to?
  196. Now they are saying the Astrodome is full, God help those still left in New Orleans. If you haven't prayed for anything for years, pray for these people.

    God bless us all.
  197. You won't have to. Thanks to the job the media has done raising awareness of the wretched conditions of the survivors, I predict the evacution will speed up, and humane living conditions will be restored for nearly everyone by this time tomorrow night.
  198. Your joking, right? i dont recognise sarcasm sometimes.
    Reading some of the stuff out there, i initially thought it was insane.
    Reports of someone looting a pot plant, huh? Sneakers-whats someone gonna do with sneakers in the situation?
    Then it occured to me, the potplant may have been an impromptu toilet,and the footwear absolutely necessary to protect against submerged detrius, or to walk out of the joint when possible to do so, given their current footwear would be ratshit.
    Its easy to be judgemental.
  199. Watching all this as a UK subscriber, I am shocked at the complete incompetance of the US authorities.....if I were American I would be calling for the Govt' to resign after this.

    I travel to the States twice a year minimum and love the country and it's people and can't believe this is happening live on TV for 5 days with almost no coordinated action from the richest, best equipped and one of the largest military forces in the world.

    How on earth is it not possible to have got large numbers of troops and medical staff in there on the first day and bottled water, tented shelter, basic food etc etc......24 hr bus shuttles in/out of the city...food/water/medical staff arrive, people leave....not rocket science is it? How many Chinnook and other helicopters do you have over there?...why is there not a 10 min constant shuttle all day long bringing in water/key aid workers and removing the sick/injured?

    This is more reminiscent of Soviet Russia when despite having huge forces there was usually a paralysis when decisive action and a coordinated response was required and is truly a low point in US history.
  200. Many good points. America is a multicultural mess where no one can agree on anything. We are held together by glue. We are like the Soviet Union in more than most think or know. The Soviet Union was based on Scientific Materialism. It was the biggest Human/economic experiment in the history of the world. America in the last 60 years has put in place some of the largest social experiments in the History of the World. The Soviet Union had people desperate to believe it was all rosy until it came down around them overnight. America was never designed to accommodate a large centralized Govt.

    They were apparently geared up to bring stuff in. When they started shooting at relief workers---alot of them refused to put their lives in danger. Furthermore, New Orleans is run by a bunch of fools. They cannot plan their way out of paper bag. There is alot of blame to go around. Alot of helpless people who depend on the Govt day and day out to meet every need---they live from check to check (many on public assistance). There are people down there that stayed and planned accordingly. Anyone that depends on the US Govt. is putting their lives in danger. Oh and in several areas of New Orleans the police just walked off the job and left. Many of the most caotic areas have no police there at all. It should be interesting to see where they all went.
  201. The problem, in four simple letters: F E M A

    The Federal Emergency Management Agency is a complete, total and utter disaster and should be completely dismantled and rebuilt or replaced.

    FEMA is not Bush's fault. It has been an incompetent agency for a long time. I have friends who work in the emergency response business and who have worked alongside FEMA. ClusterFck describes this agency well.

    But like all government agencies, it grows and mutates and takes on a cancerous life of its own, quite apart from its designated mission. It becomes a place where worthless bureaucrats can hold comfy sinecures. And, no matter how imcompetent, you can't fire them nowadays!

    I hope Bush finds a way to gut this worthless agency and start over.


  202. September 2, 2005
    A Can't-Do Government

    Before 9/11 the Federal Emergency Management Agency listed the three most likely catastrophic disasters facing America: a terrorist attack on New York, a major earthquake in San Francisco and a hurricane strike on New Orleans. "The New Orleans hurricane scenario," The Houston Chronicle wrote in December 2001, "may be the deadliest of all." It described a potential catastrophe very much like the one now happening.

    So why were New Orleans and the nation so unprepared? After 9/11, hard questions were deferred in the name of national unity, then buried under a thick coat of whitewash. This time, we need accountability.

    First question: Why have aid and security taken so long to arrive? Katrina hit five days ago - and it was already clear by last Friday that Katrina could do immense damage along the Gulf Coast. Yet the response you'd expect from an advanced country never happened. Thousands of Americans are dead or dying, not because they refused to evacuate, but because they were too poor or too sick to get out without help - and help wasn't provided. Many have yet to receive any help at all.

    There will and should be many questions about the response of state and local governments; in particular, couldn't they have done more to help the poor and sick escape? But the evidence points, above all, to a stunning lack of both preparation and urgency in the federal government's response.

    Even military resources in the right place weren't ordered into action. "On Wednesday," said an editorial in The Sun Herald in Biloxi, Miss., "reporters listening to horrific stories of death and survival at the Biloxi Junior High School shelter looked north across Irish Hill Road and saw Air Force personnel playing basketball and performing calisthenics. Playing basketball and performing calisthenics!"

    Maybe administration officials believed that the local National Guard could keep order and deliver relief. But many members of the National Guard and much of its equipment - including high-water vehicles - are in Iraq. "The National Guard needs that equipment back home to support the homeland security mission," a Louisiana Guard officer told reporters several weeks ago.

    Second question: Why wasn't more preventive action taken? After 2003 the Army Corps of Engineers sharply slowed its flood-control work, including work on sinking levees. "The corps," an Editor and Publisher article says, citing a series of articles in The Times-Picayune in New Orleans, "never tried to hide the fact that the spending pressures of the war in Iraq, as well as homeland security - coming at the same time as federal tax cuts - was the reason for the strain."

    In 2002 the corps' chief resigned, reportedly under threat of being fired, after he criticized the administration's proposed cuts in the corps' budget, including flood-control spending.

    Third question: Did the Bush administration destroy FEMA's effectiveness? The administration has, by all accounts, treated the emergency management agency like an unwanted stepchild, leading to a mass exodus of experienced professionals.

    Last year James Lee Witt, who won bipartisan praise for his leadership of the agency during the Clinton years, said at a Congressional hearing: "I am extremely concerned that the ability of our nation to prepare for and respond to disasters has been sharply eroded. I hear from emergency managers, local and state leaders, and first responders nearly every day that the FEMA they knew and worked well with has now disappeared."

    I don't think this is a simple tale of incompetence. The reason the military wasn't rushed in to help along the Gulf Coast is, I believe, the same reason nothing was done to stop looting after the fall of Baghdad. Flood control was neglected for the same reason our troops in Iraq didn't get adequate armor.

    At a fundamental level, I'd argue, our current leaders just aren't serious about some of the essential functions of government. They like waging war, but they don't like providing security, rescuing those in need or spending on preventive measures. And they never, ever ask for shared sacrifice.

    Yesterday Mr. Bush made an utterly fantastic claim: that nobody expected the breach of the levees. In fact, there had been repeated warnings about exactly that risk.

    So America, once famous for its can-do attitude, now has a can't-do government that makes excuses instead of doing its job. And while it makes those excuses, Americans are dying.
  203. Very sad indeed and, as you say, it is the poorest 20% or so who suffer the most.

    The response to Sept 11th seemed to be very efficient and well coordinated but then one tends to forget that most people there had the wherewithall to help themselves and for the most part had their possesions and homes intact.

    I hope things improve soon for the poor souls in NO and the Gulf Coast and hopefully this will be the low point and lessons will be learnt.
  204. Do you really think that if this had happened in an area of mostly white affluent republicans that we would have seen the same type of delays in getting help to them?

  205. well no this is an embarrassment. Well lets go back to my original statement that I thought looters should be shot. Now you are finally getting the reports that I was getting. Finally you are getting the reports of gangs of armed men raping, killing, and stealing everything in site. Of these men trying to shoot down helicopters. And might i say zzzzz you better get better intelligence and news because we were hereing about this since wednesday. Not on this scale but the pieaces were coming together. Now these thugs are trying to shoot at medical helicopters and blow up hospitals. These are organize gangs, thats why I advocated a shoot to kill. You need better news resources Zzzzz/

  206. They have a tough job, but like Homeland Security, they seem to find the most inefficient, painful way to do things.
  207. Its completely bushes fault. What was the whole point of the costly reorganization into homeland security. What was the point of it, so that during disasters we could respond quickly and efficiently. Can you imagine what could happen if a terriost had a nuclear attack, or widespread attack on the US. Katrina was the first post 911 test. Bush failed miserably. After 100's of billions of dollars and they cant handle one city like new orleans. What if this was LA or chicago.

  208. I know you think they should be shot, but shooting unarmed people is wrong in my opinion.

    Now, these so called gangs brandishing weapons, they are not really looters....they are criminals, and law enforcement has procedures in place to deal with them.

    I am not justifying any criminal behavior of those who are looting non essential items in order to live, but shooting to kill someone who is stealing food to survive is not right IMO.

  209. you cant even imgaine the scope of things unless u are there...you just cant get the true devastation from a TV...trust me i was here for andrew and it was a logistical nightmare to get things where they needed to get to....and we werent 10 feet underwater...where the ball was dropped was in pre hurricane strike...the ball should have been rolling hours before not days after....incredible....a really sad time in America...we are spread out to thin..how can we drop ready made meals to the afganis and not have them ready to deploy for hurricane victims...wow sad
  210. Da ya think those camera men and reporters who are showing us the devastation and suffering are going without food, etc?

    Why is it that the press is always able to get close to the people to show the suffering, but the government isn't able to get food and support to these people?

    :confused: :mad: :confused:

  211. But surely this is the crux of the problem, the failure to move quickly and get adequate numbers of relief aid and key medical/logistical staff on the ground together with large numbers of troops to both reasure and help evacuate people has allowed the desperation to grow and led directly to the breakdown we are now seeing.

    It seems Pres' Bush and the LA Gvnr are more comfortable talking about sending in battle hardened troops "locked and loaded" whilst still failing to get to grips with the human catastrophe unfolding before them....they may well win a battle against looters (some criminal some simply desperate) but I fear they are losing the war to save many others.
  212. If ZZzzz if you read my post it said shoot the armed criminals who are literally raping and murdering people. They are organized and intentionally stayed behind todo this. You dont want to admit that shooting to kill these people is the right thing, it is. I seriously dont know where you get your information from but here in Canada we were getting these reports since late tuesday. And comfirmation on wednesday. You have been completely spinned, and today it finally broke what was really happening. Man Zzzz you better get some better information resources, if you were a trader and you had your info you would be in deep trouble.

  213. they are only showing 1/1000000 th of the area which is devastated....which doesnt show the true nightmare involved with rescue efforts...a van with a 2 man camera crew can go just about anywhere...
  214. Special Report
    Masques of Death
    By George Neumayr
    Published 9/2/2005 12:12:28 AM
    New Orleans has one of the highest murder rates in the country. By mid-August of this year, 192 murders had been committed in New Orleans, "nearly 10 times the national average," reported the Associated Press. Gunfire is so common in New Orleans -- and criminals so fierce -- that when university researchers conducted an experiment last year in which they had cops fire 700 blank rounds in a neighborhood on a random afternoon "no one called to report the gunfire," reported AP.

    New Orleans was ripe for collapse. Its dangerous geography, combined with a dangerous culture, made it susceptible to an unfolding catastrophe. Currents of chaos and lawlessness were running through the city long before this week, and they were bound to come to the surface under the pressure of natural disaster and explode in a scene of looting and mayhem.

    Like riotous Los Angeles since the 1960s, New Orleans has been a wasteland of politically correct dysfunction for decades -- public schools so obviously decimated vouchers were proposed this year (and torpedoed by the left), barbaric gangster rap culture no one will confront lest they offend liberal pieties, multiculturalist frauds who empower no one but themselves, and cops neutered by the NAACP and ACLU.

    Criminals have ruled New Orleans for some time, convincing many members of the middle class, long before the hurricane, that the city was unlivable. In 1994, New Orleans was the murder capital of America. It had 421 murders that year. Criminologists predicted 300 murders this year, a projection that now looks quite conservative.

    Criminals dominate their neighborhoods to the point that people don't even call in crimes. The district attorney's office, tacitly admitting that the city's law-abiding citizens live in fear, has taken the "unusual" step of establishing a local witness protection program to encourage the reporting of crime, reports AP.

    According to the New Orleans Police Foundation, most murderers get off -- only 1 in 4 are convicted -- and 42 percent of cases involving serious crimes since 2002 have been dropped by prosecutors.

    Meanwhile, cops, when they can get away with it, have been living out of town. It is far too scary for them and their families. New Orleans Police officers are required to live in the city but many ignore this residency requirement, according to the Times-Picayune. The paper discovered that many top-ranking New Orleands cops lived in the suburbs and that most cops, both black and white, wanted the residency requirement rescinded.

    For reasons of political correctness -- critics of law enforcement say lifting the residency requirement will mean more white cops eager to brutalize residents of the inner city and fewer black cops understanding of them -- the residency requirement remains, though cops breaking the rule told the Times-Picayune that it seriously hurts recruitment. It also -- this is particularly evident in Los Angeles where cops involved in the Ramparts scandal turned out to be ex-criminals -- distorts recruitment.

    If the New Orleans Police Department has appeared feeble during the chaos -- and in some cases complicit in it -- policies like the residency requirement explain the breakdown. (Perhaps another factor that has rendered the NOPD feckless in the face of a rising murder rate is the criticism of its handling of a minority Mardi Gras.) Americans who have seen cops join in the looting ask: Why are police officers behaving like criminals? Well, because PC police departments like the NOPD hire them. Aggressive, let's-just-meet-the-quota-style affirmative action has become the door through which criminals enter the police academy.

    More than the physical foundations of New Orleans will need to be rebuilt over the next few years. Its politically correct culture in which pathologies are allowed to fester in the name of "progress" forms much of the debris that must be cleared away if civilization is to return to New Orleans. A city which boasts as one of its businesses memorial "death t-shirts" -- clothing made popular by the frequency of gangland slayings in New Orleans that say things like, "Born a Pimp, Died a Playa" -- was headed for collapse even without a hurricane, and had become, as the exodus of cops illustrates, unlivable.

    Conservative black leaders have been mau-maued into silence whenever they tell the truth about this barbarism and call for dramatic reform. But they are the ones who must lead the city now, and the phonies at organizations like the NAACP who despite all their rhetoric haven't done a thing to help the black underclass should step aside. Hurricane Katrina has made vivid the civilizational collapse they have long tried to conceal.

    You want a good look at the results of years and years of liberalism NO is the perfect example.

    Liberals let this crap go on for years, it gets exposed and then they want it cleaned up in hours. Oh but don't hurt the criminals.

  215. i agree....they should have had a plan in motion before the hurricane hit land...thats all im saying
  216. Gee, ya think this guy is right wing biased?
  217. Here's a good question to all you whining critics, how many of you have donated any cash?

    Im sure that the ones bashing the most, and copying and pasting the most, would never consider opening the purse strings. If you are not going to do anything other than usual anti US gov. sentiment, than you're a hypocrite, you FPOS.
  218. Yes, but what does donating money have to do with inadequate leadership?
  219. So those who pay taxes have no right to complain how the federal government responds to crisis?

  220. ___________________________________________

    Too bad he's quoting facts, ie. murder rates etc. and I believe most of the politicians are Dems.

    Head in the sand I'm sure will solve their problems just like it has there for the past 20 years.
  221. Sure, I'm sure he's quoting facts. It's just the completely biased, rhetorical delivery that I felt a need comment on.
  222. Shame he is also not quoting poverty rates and unemployment rates too....

    Fair and balanced? LOL

  223. Black Caucus on CNN right now objecting to the media's use of the word 'refugees' to describe the population of people without shelter. Amazing.

    - Spydertrader
  224. American citizens are "refugees?"

    Where is the refuge?

  225. _____________________________________________

    I agree with you on the delivery but we had better not overlook the root causes and history or history will only repeat itself over and over.

    I have great compassion for the elderly and infirm and poor who are innocent victims here but to protect them we had better quit the PC and really crack dowm on the looters and lawless others. To not do so is almost criminal to the victims.

    I read there had been several murders in the Civic Center and many more rapes. Now I can see murders over food etc. but rape! that is beyond the pale. Shoot the bastards.
  226. Poverty, unemployment, hopelessness...they are the root causes.

  227. Last I checked citizenship had little to do with refugee status.

    - Spydertrader
  228. Where is the refuge?

  229. yeah but if they are so unprepared for this, imagine what could happen when something unexpected happens. frightening huh[

    QUOTE]Quote from ElCubano:

    i agree....they should have had a plan in motion before the hurricane hit land...thats all im saying [/QUOTE]
  230. ___________________________________________

    He really should have because the same elements that drive out the cops families drive out many businesses as well as the corruption and are the causes of unemployment and poverty.

    NO isn't the only liberal city were businesses are fleeing and conditions are worsening. Look at the migration from the northeast to Florida.

    NO is a liberal dream PC everywhere, controled by Dems, citizenry dependent of the government, and a solid Dem voting block run by a corrupt Dem machine.
  231. Just think what 5 billion dollars a month would do, to enable programs, to educate and motivate poverty stricken americans.

    30% poverty level in New Orleans, Louisiana... USA, is completely unacceptable.

    I'm sorry to dig this up again, but George Bush had the opportunity to be a GREAT president. Instead I feel strongly that history will judge him as one of the worst.
  232. Typical reactionary regressive thinking, par for the course.

  233. Last I checked the search for refuge made one a refugee.

    - Spydertrader
  234. _______________________________________________


    August 1997

    4.2 = unemployment rate for whites.
    9.3 = for blacks.
    7.2 = for latinos.

    On the other hand:

    August 2005

    4.2 = unemployment rate for whites.
    9.6 = for blacks.
    5.8 = for latinos.

    Pouring money into that hell hole will not fix the problem the root causes must be addressed.
  235. Its that u cant do anything to change the leadeship, that's a given. but u can do something, yourself, to help out.
  236. Where is the refuge?

  237. Actually my point was that bush need not through 5 billion a month into Iraq, when fumndamental reforms are in need here in our own country.
  238. Vote with intelligence and due diligence.
  239. Unless we hold leadership accountable, why on earth would they change?

  240. Even if you dont pay taxes,you have a right to complain.
    It would be nice however, if just once you took a break from your anto-gov tirades, and actually did something to help the pawns that you use to try to support arguments. Give 50 bucks, I guarantee you'll feel good about it.
  241. _________________________________________________

    Katrina should be a wake up call. We need to be involved in the middle east especially with Iraq holding the largest undeveloped oil reserves. Imagine if that whole area fell under AQ rule.

    Also we desperately need more refineries.
  242. er, actually you (and we) need to use less oil.
  243. How do you know what people are giving or not giving?

    Your "shut up and just donate money" is typical of those who want to keep the heat of Bush Inc.

  244. Had the country invested in renewable energy technologies, prior to now, oil reserves and refining would not be a issue.
  245. Uhhh, the oil in Iraq doesn't belong to us.

    Your plan is to protect the supplier. Exactly the way a drug addict wants to make sure the drug trade continues because of the addiction.

    Hmmm, speaking of which, how much have we done to stop the flow of drugs out of Afghanistan.

    I didn't think so....

    We had out wakeup call in the 70's, and the corporate entity known as the United States of Corporate America, oil producers, auto makers, made sure America went back to sleep....

  247. As someone who grew up surrounded by folks espousing alot of far left ideology (and I am not talking democrats or liberls---way to left of them). Every social program over the last 50 years has failed. Totally failed.

    Detroit (where I grew up) spends a fortune on students and nothing works. New Orleans has had fortunes pore through there from time to time and nothing changes---it only gets worse. Long term solutions to these problems are going to make everyone uncomfortable. Money is not the answer. Money won't even buy time any more.

    All the liberal thinkers are looking for a way out of this social mess that gets bigger and bigger every decade. There are no new answers to the old questions. Oh and the Republican leadership is just as bad. The whole Republican leadership agree with the Liberal social policies--even if the people voting for them do not.

    Republican and Democrat ----those are just words. The people in charge of the Republican party are NOT Conservative. The NeoCon contingent of the Republican party have a choke hold on policy. They will go down as revolutionary radicals who failed. They are so Utopian. I liked them better when they were communists.
  248. Wrong programs.... Cut off the welfare checks, educate them, and get their lazy asses off the f&*@$ ing couch by getting them to work.

    Personally, I've had to work for everything I've attained.
  249. bush has to take some blame, hes reorganize the entire governmetn and promised during the next disaster the government woudl be prepared. He failed misrably. He spent 100's of billions of dollars to prepare. Can you imagine what would happen if there was a nuclear terriost attack. Its time to rethink the whole strategy of homeland security.


  250. Irag was exporting oil before the war. Now they have to import oil. Furthermore, all of Saddam's reserve audit figures pertaining to how much crude they really had/have are proving flawed and bogus. Iraq is an unqualified disaster. There has been no major oil discoveries in years. They find a little every day BUT that wont make for the shortfall from extra demand. Exxon maybe making money today. But at the current rate they will have 0 reserves in like 13 years. In other words, all the stuff about Oil shortages are proving correct. I have come to believe Peak Oil is for real. There will be substitutes and people will adapt. But Oil is in a secular bull market. There will be setbacks. But unless someone out there makes a mammoth oil find. It will keep going higher.
  251. This is a good example of why racism exists to the extent that it does in the United States.

    Looters should be shot on sight.
  252. _______________________________________________

    If the entire world switched to hy-brid vehicles we would be back to this point in 6 years.

    However we need to do both.

    There is 3 times as much oil in the Rocky Mountain oil shale fields as there ever was under Saudi Arabia but up to now it took $80/ per barrel to make it feasible. But with new technology that is coming down. We absolutely need both as well as nuclear.
  253. _____________________________________________

    Good and your solution is to let AQ own the oil. Brilliant.

    You liberals have stopped every new refinery, every nuclear power plant, and any domestic exploration. You've had great success but lousey results. The same in NO, great success at keeping it Dem but lousey results for your victims.
  254. ummm tell me that to the rapists who rapped and murdered an 8 year old girl. And that was one girl among the hundreads being raped and beatened by the thugs. You keep crying racism, these are black men beating and raping black woman and men. You have to get your ass out of your mouth and start looking at reality. These are thugs, who are organized and armed. They are killing black people. Yes its time to shoot to kill these thugs. Im sure you wouldnt have a problem if these were white or asian thugs raping and murdering people.

  255. What I do personally is really none of your business, is it?

    Oh, I fogot, you are a stalker.....

  256. You are delusional. AQ has never said they want to own the oil, nor would we have to buy oil from them.

    Geez, your spin is out of control.

    Now we have to be in Iraq to protect the Iraqi people from big bad AQ.

    It is not our fucking oil dimwit.

    The republicans are fully in power right now. How many nuclear plants are being built?


  257. Uhhh, you replied to my post, jackass.
  258. well I have to agree with Zzzz america shouldnt be in iraq. And I agree with you they have to build new refinaries,nuclear plants, and domestic exploration. The problem is that america is spread too thin, all of the army corps of engineers are in iraq/afgahistan, national guard are all in the middle east, all of the carriers are there. Its a mess, but it doesnt excuse why homeland security failed. In the last 4 years the government has ploweds 100's of billions in homeland security and preparing for these kind of situations. They failed plain and simple. I think everybody has to agree they have togo back to the drawing boards. if this was a nuke attack, can you imagine what kind of chaos there could have been.

  259. I don't even understand why we even need all that petroleum based stuff when their is so many available sources of CLEAN energy. And the problem with this fuel-cell technology is it takes energy to get the hydrogen, so it's not so pure as it's made out to be.

    Sorry getting OT here... I'll refrain.. this is just important to me though.
  260. ____________________________________________

    Spinning the nuclear shutdown won't work. Bush just started mentioning it recently because of the liberal prejudice. But give the Reps a few more years and a few more years of results from failed Dem policies and we will have them.

    If AQ doesn't want to control the oil engine of the world then you are truly delusional.

    Of course we don't own that oil but I'll appoint you head negotiator to buy it from AQ if they get it.

    You really need to get away from that PC and do something out in the sunshine, it might stimulate your brain cells.
  261. Fine. But as I stated. They cannot EDUCATE them. It is like Haiti. You have teaming mass of underclass people breeding out of control. If you have lived near one of these areas. You would know that there is no solution. They wont work. And if you cut them off like I would. They would immediately come to your neighborhood and take everything you worked for and loot. Rioting has been a weapon of the black leadership to scare Washington into goodies. Nothing ever changes. Sooner or later you are going to have a line in the sand and then it will get interesting. There was a book called Civil War 2. It was written by a man named Chittum in the mid 90's. It layouts many scenarios for America's future. None to pretty. But no Nation ever lasts forever.
  262. I here ya. As a developer, I've been somewhat exposed myself. But the point I'm feeling is that more needs to be rigorously done, and not just let the problems progress.
  263. Nonsense. The problem is a racist society that perpetuates the legacy of slavery and leaders with a scarely hidden genocidal agenda to oppress peoples of color. How do you expect proud black men to learn in schools designed to make them lackeys of an imperialist hegemonic regime? Hell no, they won't go, not to your whitebread schools and certainly not to work for the new slavemasters of the global economy.
  264. Precisely and that type of thinking will lead to some permanent solution. And it wont involve affirmative action and goodies. The whole world is seeing this and asking questions. The average american living in the burbs is seeing this and pondering the fait of their children and grandchildren in the future. It is NOT getting better. We have several Haiti's developing in the USA.
  265. The US is and has always been a very race-conscious/-centered country. In contrast the UK is very much about social-class, social layers.

    Race will continue to play a big role in the US for a long, long time. It's cemented into the US' history, tradition, laws and regulations.
  266. guess who the thugs, the organize gangs that are raping and murdering people right now oppressing. Guess who, other african people. There arent many white faces, so guess who these people are hurting right now. The people you are defending, who are being raped, killed, having their life savings stolen, beatened, yeah other africans. Its not about race, these guys are hurting their own people, and others who are coming into their to save them. Its not about race, its about thugs, you know who they are, the bullies in the nieghborhood who thinks they can take whatever they want. Its time to shoot and kill these animals.

  267. I think it's both about "payback-time" and about mindless thugs. They are crazy bastards, but they seem to be warring against police and the establishment, while lashing out at everyone.

    Seeing reports of how it is being a black father in the southern states, it's no surprise they're frustrated. The chance of being jailed for not wearing a t-shirt or whatever reason seems pretty high when you're black around there.
  268. America may become like South America. You want to see one possible America's future? visit South America, there you can see pristine drug-lord CT, CA-style mansions within gated communities protected by private guards from the hungry riff raff living in the sorrounding slums, who happen to be predominantly of native (indian) ancestry.
    Hope not.
    But I don't think Europe has a better model. They are becoming like the URSS their welfare state may go bankrupt at any time and when that happens bye bye socialist state, welcome Russia-style mobster capitalist kleptocracy.
  269. You are right and wrong. Race will play a HUGE role in any country that is multicultural. Always has and always will. The UK is placating racial powderkegs by giving minorities goodies. That does not work long term. Condescending attitudes and handouts just tell them you are weak. IMO, 50 years from now there will be no such thing as a multicultural country. They always disintegrate. Always. The only way to keep them together is by Dictatorship. Iraq was a multicultural country. Iraq was held together by a dictatorship. Iraq without a dictator will split up. Maybe not tomorrow or next week.

    Every great country like the UK has great cities. Everyone of these great cities has been multicultural to the extent that they let people from other cultures live there and do business. But there is no such thing as a multiracial/multicultural country. Does not work that way. You don't see the Japanese becoming multicultural? Do you? Of course not. They don't believe the class/social nonsense. London has the highest crime rates in it's history. And that has nothing to do with class. There have been poor people in London for centuries. Oh and all the third countries blame you for colonialism. Do you think those animals roving New Orleans would spare you because you are from England? Are you going to be able to explain to them that it is just a class issue? How do you think that would work for you?
  270. there is no way that you know that looting is 90% groceries. any correct arguments that you make is colored by making a PC
    argument which may be wrong. where is your concern about rapes or shooting at relief helicopters. correct me i am wrong.
    your likely response they are isolated incidents

  271. Everyday is payback day for thugs. Everyday is war against the establishment. That is the way it is for these people.

    LOL...Arrested for NOT wearing a t-shirt???? WTF are you talking about??!?!?!

    Please do not talk about $hit. You are clueless. You do not have the vaguest ideal of what goes on in these places. Go live in Detroit for a couple years and comeback and post.
  272. Well I see South America blowing up in the future as well. Your analysis on Europe is correct. The politicos are trying to make us more like South America. I used to think they might succeed. But there are millions upon millions of people in America that won't take that kind of hell hole.

    Here is a decent article on a current political trend in South America.
  273. I beg to differ.

    The Japanese are extremely class and social conscious. Your family, ethnicity, where you attended school, your occupation; these are among the primary factors that set your status in Japanese society, as they do in the West.

    Do some research on the plight of burakumin and ethnic Koreans living in Japan. It will be enlightening.

    To say Japan is not becoming multicultural is also incorrect. They don't like it (they are extremely ethnocentric) - and their immigration policies reflect that - but due to dwindling birth rates and a rapidly aging population, they are having to revise those policies.
  274. I don't get the flavour you're smoking around here ...
    India is a super-large democracy with some of the most multi-cultural, multi-religious societies if there ever was one. The old greeks had multi-cultural societies and democracies. It's the US which has a very tightly integrated history and laws with related racial-oriented activities.

    Oh, and different culture doesn't imply different race - but that might be hard for some to understand when spending too much free time under their white sheets on a horseback lighting crosses.
  275. Japan and China and Korea maybe "technically" multicultural states. You can call anything a multicultural state. You will NOT see Japan accept millions of third worlders. Oh they may have some Koreans. They are not going to give them affirmative action. Are they? Of course not. Japan is for the Japanese. Always has been and always will be. That is my point. The overriding culture is unanimous in agreement that it should stay that way. Every society has a social caste etc etc. My point is that the Japan, China, Korea are not going to commit cultural suicide. They are not going to let in say Nigerians who have on average 7 kids and allow them to take over the country.
  276. India is fine in some areas. However, the lower castes are outbreeding the upper castes. We will see how stable they are in the future with the rising Muslim population. Do you think they are going to let the rising Muslim population deside their future? No way. Well then. Multiculturism is some instances just wont work.

    There are way to many ways to play with words. I believe you can have a multicultural european country, maybe a multicultural asian, etc etc. But having some polyglot of people who have never gotten along is not going to work. Never. Not long term. I used to think it would with Libertarian solutions. But I dont anymore.

    Oh and Greece was NOT multicultural--- Until the sacking of Delphi!!! I don't know what you are smoking. And nice immature comment about sheets and horses. Typical for Utopian thinking people. Someone points out facts and you smear. I doubt you would say that slimey comment in person. Or at least you wouldn't say more than once.
  277. I knew it. I knew it after only reading a couple of your posts.
    Your choice in white supremacist literature only confirms what I had sensed all along.
    If we were your drinking buddies instead of Elite Trader, I'm sure this conversation would involve alot less hinting, and alot more use of words beginning with the letter 'N'. Tell me I'm wrong.

    Ironically, my first response to you was agreement.
    QUOTE FROM Rearden Metal:

    "TGM, I've had this feeling for years, that we the minority ethnic groups in the U.S. have pushed diversity down white people's throats a bit too far...and one day the pendulum would swing back against us."

    I still feel this way, and am sensing that 'one day' is getting <b>much closer.</b>
  278. Actually you are wrong. I view foul language as distasteful. Oh and I don't hint. I grew up in a Commie household Rearden. Far far left. I know the people that wrote most of the propaganda out there in the US textbooks. I am simply stating A=A. I am actually a Libertarian by the way.

    I did not read Civil War 2 until a year ago. The far right started getting massive voting blocks across europe and I started doing my homework on them. I am a political analyst and I trade forex (macro as well). Civil War 2 is one of the books that make many all of their reading lists. Since it is their view of the political trends int the US. I read it. It says nothing new. Unless you are unacquainted with History. Although, some of the quotes in it from our leaders were surprising. You want to find geopolitical trends? You have to start reading what THEY are reading. They being those trying to come to power.

    "TGM, I've had this feeling for years, that we the minority ethnic groups in the U.S. have pushed diversity down white people's throats a bit too far...and one day the pendulum would swing back against us."

    Well like I said then. White people love saving things. They are the best at it. That is their gift and curse. Minorities did not push anything. A minority cannot by definition do anything the majority does not want or does not vote for.
  279. yeah but tell that to the 8 year old girl that gang of thugs raped and murdered and left her body drifting on the dirty water. These thugs are animals. Listen to what the mayor new orleans is saying, he is black and he agrees with me, that a shoot to kill or is needed. Its just disgusting, it takes 5 days for help to come, all the while bush is taking a vacation.

  280. You americans need something like this like we have in Canada. Dart. A rapid response cammand and control /relief organization that can go into any disaster zone in a moments notice. Its funny you guys have a huge budget, but we can set one up that can go within minutes.

  281. Perhaps my assessment was a bit harsh then.
    In that case let me ask you:
    The U.S. is now composed of over 30% non-aryans, for lack of a better term. You give the impression that you believe 'something must be done with them.'

    My question is...what?
  282. Well I have yet to read a concrete definition of an Aryan. You mean what would I do with the rising non-european population? Nothing. I believe libertarian solutions would work. What are libertarian solutions? Freedom of Association no matter how ridiculous or stupid, no affirmative action, get everyone out of everyone face and do not allow anyone to scream racism. Basically, just go to a live and let live society. Simplify and strip down America into a Libertarian State. No equality commissions no civil rights junkets.

    Over the course of time, a natural separation (that already exists for the most part) would set in. Some big cities like New York would be big melting pots but others wouldn't. This way if (when) the country separates it could be peaceful because you cannot have forced integration with freedom of association. Forcing people into areas against their will ---is always disastrous.

    I would shut off immigration immediately. I would not deport illegals but I would not give them citizenship. I would let attrition of them getting layed off from work, caught by immigration authorities etc...take them out of the country (enforcing laws works as well). Over a few years, they would be gone.

    I would basically leave people alone. Bring back the strict common sense property rights. In other words, if you try to break in and destroy Korean shops in LA and they shoot you. It is your own damn fault. No calling Johnny Cochran.

    Of course, no one is talking about real solutions. No one faces facts until it is forced on them by reality. That is Human Nature. The problem in this country is that noone is treated like human beings. You are either an Angel--incapable of doing any wrong. Or a devil---incapable of doing anything right. Angels and Devils are not human. One thing that has shocked people is that they are seeing what is really going on. My God, can you imagine if the internet was around for the LA riots? The world would be totally shocked. Can imagine what would happen if the Koreans set upon blacks and starting attacking their property. There would be declarations at the UN etc ...etc... Or could you imagine if the KKK attacked and looted African businesses? What would happen. Honestly? A libertarian country would NOT allow double standards to set in.

    Alot of stuff has been spun for years. It is just getting more difficult to do the spinning. Especially, since everyone has their own online media company. All you need is a camcorder.
  283. Ok, now you're saying <b>the exact same things I believe in</b>, making me feel like a dick for even suggesting you're one of those jerks that moan about the 'filthy fucking n....' when they drink.

    I mean, you probably CAN understand the source of my confusion. You don't have to mention you're a Libertarian or call yourself 'John Galt' or 'Rearden Metal' for me to know that you're heavily influenced by Rand. The terminology you use is quite enough to make this easily recognizable.

    ...but then you start talking about issues that we Objectivists always prefer to ignore, and mention white supremacist material in neutral (if not positive) terms. Well, I think you can understand why anyone would be confused about your true beliefs.

    It's like mixing pacifist philosophy with Wahabi Islam- an almost absurd mix that noone has ever seen before.
  284. Hey, whimper-wimp.
    I'm just paying you back for your childish retart earlier. If you had done the least of background research, you'd see that I don't back off for anyone.

    So, I'm continuing to prove you wrong, and you are backing down on the statements you came with earlier. Don't you have any intellectual pride at all ? Please use some lexica, google or whatever before you write ...

    I'm no utopian visionary, I have a well-founded personal belief system which is nothing big.
  285. IMHO you are wrong on some points and correct on others.

    I think you're right that Japan will not simply open the floodgates. HOWEVER, I believe you are going to see them accepting millions of third-worlders.

    They have to.

    They've been allowing skilled, IT proficient third-worlders from India and the like for sometime now. They were letting South Americans of Japanese descent, i.e. Brazil & Peru, for manufacturing jobs, but now many of those jobs are being outsourced to China, and they've pretty much emptied the well on those from SA wanting to live and work in Japan. With the rapidly aging population, they are starting to allow in SouthEast Asians for in-home care and the like. The populating aging/low birth rate issues go hand in hand; millions of workers will be needed for those jobs, which are not the first choice of the Japanese youth.

    No, Japan is not "multicultural" to the extent that we or Europe are. They probably never will be. But they will have to let in foreign workers to make up for the human resource inequities.
  286. They'll let them in but give them inferior citizenship.
  287. Oh yeah, that's the ticket.

    We grade citizenship.

    First class citizenship, second class citizenship, third class citizenship.....why didn't the founding fathers think of that?

  288. What the f**k are you talking about? We're discussing Japan here.

    Hitting the Scotch early today aren't you, Zzeal?
  289. Well actually, I agree with this. Japan will not allow uncontrolled immigration. I believe they allow all kinds of workers. But they don't let them attain citizenship. They are there to work and that is it. I have nothing against that. These kind of discussions are difficult to have online simply because it is impossible to go into things without writing a book and even there will be misunderstandings that do not happen in person.

    Every situation around the world is slightly different. You have to discuss them in historical context and on a case by case basis. The general problem/challenge will be this. If Japan imports the Plaid people in to do the jobs they do not want to do. And say Japan gives them citizenship. And say the Plaid people have big families average 7 children each. Eventually, wether it be in 10 years, 20 years, 50 years with those birth rates Japan would have political difficulties. Are they to surrender their country to Non-Japanese?

    Will the Hindus of India surrender their thousands of years of traditions to Muslims just because they have more votes? If it si a democracy that is supposed to happen. However, history has never been kind in these situations. In general, someone looses it all. Ethnic cleansing and a historical restart takes place. That is the ugly part of history.

    Of late, the US and others have stepped in and tried to stop ethnic violence. Serbia is a good example. But now the Muslims are ethnically cleansing the Serbs. People with different versions of the past will always have different visions of the future. How do you rectify that? Do you really think Britain are going to surrender their Island in 50 years to a Muslim majority? How about Holland? Are we going to bomb France if the Muslims want to split up the country because they are being mistreated?

    Will American just end up a paradise with a Latin American Majority and be one big melting pot? Remember the US took the Southwest from Mexico. They remember it damn well. You think they are going to sit around and pay for all the old gringos retirements? Everyone hopes so. But what if everyone is wrong? Kinda like a big trade. What is going to happen if we are wrong? Well, your downside is some kind of civil war and/or splitting up the country. Correct? That is Americas worst case scenario. Mexicans have a different version of the past. Which means they are going have a different interpretation of the future.

    Alot of posters (myself included) have been very hard on the mostly African looters that have been shown all over the place. One fact remains, they have a radical different interpretation of the past. I don't see any way around it. Up until now. It has created a dream political situation of divide and rule. This always creates problems longterm.

    This is obviously on my mind. Because right now I am trying to decide were I want to live in the future. I saw enough ethnic violence growing up in Detroit to last ten lifetimes. Nothing I would not to see again.
  290. Agreed. Thanks for your thoughts, much appreciated.

  291. Ah, you are not up to date on the arguments. There are many arguments going on between Libertarians right now. For instance, how transferable are these libertarian values?

    Western Civilization is a unique invention. I used to be utopian to some degree and think things were transferable simply because the only difference was opportunity vs poverty. But I am now agnostic. The Marxist version of history is deeply flawed. What if things like IQ matter? What if there is a broader degree of differences between the human species than most will admit? In other words, what if we are wrong and all people are not equal (it is only every otherday that Reuters is releasing some news on a race based drug). And to what extent are people not equal? Definately not a polite conversation at this day in time.

    And yes, that is definitely Racialism to some degree. No way around it. The ideal that just culture decides everything is flawed. All human ideas are flawed to some degree. What everyone is worried about is the the big question. What if you are wrong? Are you willing to risk Western Civilization to find out? On top of that, what about the ethnic interest of european people? Europe is their continent. Are Italians suppose to surrender their culture to strangers? Will it still be Italian? Is it worth preserving?

    You want to be the Muslim North African boy trying immigrate and date Meadow Soprano the morning Tony Soprano wakes up and realizes that Italians as HE knows them are going to be extinct in 2045? I wouldn't want to be Irish boy there trying to date her . Much less the non-european. It would be unprecedented for someone to just rollover and wish for their own culture/genetic extinction. Now you can tell him that all people are equal that everyone bleeds red etc...etc....But a little bird tells me that may not fly with him. But these are real questions.

    That is the argument on the paleocon boards and they are going back and forth on this.(http://blog.lewrockwell.com/ has some paleocon viewpoints).

    With Open Boarders the libertarian argument stated the Govt. would whither away (ala Marx). I liked that idea. I dislike Govt. However, an objective look will tell anyone that it has not occurred as thought. California has become more statist. It is like we imported more statist policies from Mexico right into the Southwest. California has not become more libertarian. Not even a close call on that one. That is why the PaleoCons of the Libertarian movement (and Conservative) are gaining attention. Anytime you make a good call. People are going to listen. The guys that run Vdare website (Brimelow brothers) are famous PaleoCon Libertarians.

    I am agnostic as of this point. I am still thinking this one through. But this will decide everything in the future---especially investment trends. The only thing I do know from experience is that having people around each other with historical animosity is a recipe for disaster. No amount of laws forcing people to love each other work in such circumstances.

    It has only been since WW2 that no one was allowed to publicly talk about differences. Before that. That was the only thing the right and the left agreed on! What you see as some radical contrast has only been recent. Marxism was never been historically concerned with the plight of Africans (read Marx's letters to the Confederacy). Socialists were adamantly opposed to noneuropean labor in America.

    I am guessing you have never read Proudhon? He is the father of Anarchism and Libertarianism. If you read him you will see were these historic sides of Libertarianism start over a hundred years ago.

    He wrote the following statement over a hundred years ago. It made huge impression on me when I first read it. Read it and tell him is not a libertarian! This is one of the quotes that started it all.

    "To be GOVERNED is to be watched, inspected, spied upon, directed, law-driven, numbered, regulated, enrolled, indoctrinated, preached at, controlled, checked, estimated, valued, censured, commanded, by creatures who have neither the right nor the wisdom nor the virtue to do so. To be GOVERNED is to be at every operation, at every transaction noted, registered, counted, taxed, stamped, measured, numbered, assessed, licensed, authorized, admonished, prevented, forbidden, reformed, corrected, punished. It is, under pretext of public utility, and in the name of the general interest, to be place[d] under contribution, drilled, fleeced, exploited, monopolized, extorted from, squeezed, hoaxed, robbed; then, at the slightest resistance, the first word of complaint, to be repressed, fined, vilified, harassed, hunted down, abused, clubbed, disarmed, bound, choked, imprisoned, judged, condemned, shot, deported, sacrificed, sold, betrayed; and to crown all, mocked, ridiculed, derided, outraged, dishonored. That is government; that is its justice; that is its morality."

    P.J. Proudhon
  292. Proudhon. The collectivist who hated government. Not really my kind of guy, considering the fact that collectivism <b>is</b> the disease. Government abuses in the name of the collective... are merely a symptom.

    "The Jew is by temperament an anti-producer, neither a farmer nor an industrial nor even a true merchant. He is an intermediary, always fraudulent and parasitic, who operates, in trade as in philosophy, by means of falsification, counterfeiting, horse-dealing.... Satan....incarnated in the race of Sem."

    ~ P.J. Proudhon

    No, not my kind of guy at all.
  293. September 3, 2005
    United States of Shame

    Stuff happens.

    And when you combine limited government with incompetent government, lethal stuff happens.

    America is once more plunged into a snake pit of anarchy, death, looting, raping, marauding thugs, suffering innocents, a shattered infrastructure, a gutted police force, insufficient troop levels and criminally negligent government planning. But this time it's happening in America.

    W. drove his budget-cutting Chevy to the levee, and it wasn't dry. Bye, bye, American lives. "I don't think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees," he told Diane Sawyer.

    Shirt-sleeves rolled up, W. finally landed in Hell yesterday and chuckled about his wild boozing days in "the great city" of N'Awlins. He was clearly moved. "You know, I'm going to fly out of here in a minute," he said on the runway at the New Orleans International Airport, "but I want you to know that I'm not going to forget what I've seen." Out of the cameras' range, and avoided by W., was a convoy of thousands of sick and dying people, some sprawled on the floor or dumped on baggage carousels at a makeshift M*A*S*H unit inside the terminal.

    Why does this self-styled "can do" president always lapse into such lame "who could have known?" excuses.

    Who on earth could have known that Osama bin Laden wanted to attack us by flying planes into buildings? Any official who bothered to read the trellis of pre-9/11 intelligence briefs.

    Who on earth could have known that an American invasion of Iraq would spawn a brutal insurgency, terrorist recruiting boom and possible civil war? Any official who bothered to read the C.I.A.'s prewar reports.

    Who on earth could have known that New Orleans's sinking levees were at risk from a strong hurricane? Anybody who bothered to read the endless warnings over the years about the Big Easy's uneasy fishbowl.

    In June 2004, Walter Maestri, emergency management chief for Jefferson Parish, fretted to The Times-Picayune in New Orleans: "It appears that the money has been moved in the president's budget to handle homeland security and the war in Iraq, and I suppose that's the price we pay. Nobody locally is happy that the levees can't be finished, and we are doing everything we can to make the case that this is a security issue for us."

    Not only was the money depleted by the Bush folly in Iraq; 30 percent of the National Guard and about half its equipment are in Iraq.

    Ron Fournier of The Associated Press reported that the Army Corps of Engineers asked for $105 million for hurricane and flood programs in New Orleans last year. The White House carved it to about $40 million. But President Bush and Congress agreed to a $286.4 billion pork-filled highway bill with 6,000 pet projects, including a $231 million bridge for a small, uninhabited Alaskan island.

    Just last year, Federal Emergency Management Agency officials practiced how they would respond to a fake hurricane that caused floods and stranded New Orleans residents. Imagine the feeble FEMA's response to Katrina if they had not prepared.

    Michael Brown, the blithering idiot in charge of FEMA - a job he trained for by running something called the International Arabian Horse Association - admitted he didn't know until Thursday that there were 15,000 desperate, dehydrated, hungry, angry, dying victims of Katrina in the New Orleans Convention Center.

    Was he sacked instantly? No, our tone-deaf president hailed him in Mobile, Ala., yesterday: "Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job."

    It would be one thing if President Bush and his inner circle - Dick Cheney was vacationing in Wyoming; Condi Rice was shoe shopping at Ferragamo's on Fifth Avenue and attended "Spamalot" before bloggers chased her back to Washington; and Andy Card was off in Maine - lacked empathy but could get the job done. But it is a chilling lack of empathy combined with a stunning lack of efficiency that could make this administration implode.

    When the president and vice president rashly shook off our allies and our respect for international law to pursue a war built on lies, when they sanctioned torture, they shook the faith of the world in American ideals.

    When they were deaf for so long to the horrific misery and cries for help of the victims in New Orleans - most of them poor and black, like those stuck at the back of the evacuation line yesterday while 700 guests and employees of the Hyatt Hotel were bused out first - they shook the faith of all Americans in American ideals. And made us ashamed.

    Who are we if we can't take care of our own?
  294. TGM, you're probably only the second person on ET to use the term 'statist'. I would be the first.

    A is A, strict common sense, property rights...you <b>sound</b> just like me... but then comes all the Eurocentrism stuff which makes me quite uneasy.

    Are you my evil twin?
  295. where is the article link?
  296. You have obviously a lot of strains of nationalism in you - part social-nationalism it seems. You claim libertarian values, but you are for strictly governing borders, and claim "genetic extinction" if races mix ...
    I don't think the thing about the sheets was that far away still, Casper.
  297. He's just telling it like it is. He does not claim to have a racial preference, he's just telling that people do and people can't be changed.

    In Europe and America they don't like to talk about it it's politically incorrect.

    But if you go to South-America, then you can hear 'educated' white people talk openly about the undesirability of mixing with the "indians", of preserving race purity, or of improving the "race" by marrying foreign white partners. I mean these are not southern white trash, this is supposedly affluent highly educated people. You can either get offended and cover your eyes and ears, or get a whole new perspective of human nature.

    Griginho you are obviously from Brazil. Gringinho means whitey doesn't it? If you're a whitey I wonder how many brown/black friends do you have or how many brown/black ex girlfriends have you had. Exactly.

    Maybe it's just human nature to tend to associate with similar looking people. Part of our tribal or monkey heritage I guess, chimps don't hang out with gorillas.
  298. India? You cite India as an example of successful multiculturalism?

    Er, actually, no you don't. You just cite it as an example.

    Luckily for you.

    Because if you had tried to cite it as an example of successful multiculturalism, I believe you'd have a hell of a time trying to explain away the millions of deaths and millions of refugees created by Indian "multiculturalism". In fact, that the killing stopped at all was largely because of cultural apartheid -- ever heard of "Pakistan" or "Bangladesh"? (Depressingly, the evidence is clear that cultural apartheid has done a lot more to prevent intercultural war and bloodshed than well-meaning but untested and, evidently, tragically flawed multiculturalist theories.)
  299. 2 points: 1) I never said Proudhon was perfect. I just wanted to make sure you knew were alot of this stuff started. Even bad guys like Lenin and Stalin can make brilliant statements/ observations.
    2) When it comes to left or right thinkers pre-WW2. You would be hard pressed to find someone who would publicly state "I love Jews". AntiSemitism dominated political thinking.

    Karl Marx (a jewish boy) even played along with Proudhon. He tried to one up him by writing "A world without Jews". It was a political/cultural trend. Kind like when you see someone this day in time slamming white men. That has been a big "PC" trend. Same type of thing. You are not going to hear too many people go on TV and say wonderful things about white men and how great they are. Just like you would not be reading a French newspaper article in 1885 about wonderful jews. There are exceptions but what I am talking about is the rule.

    I am not legitimizing bigotry. I do not discount everything someone says or does because they disliked someone or because they had an appearance of disliking someone/something. I do not discount the thinking of the founding fathers of American because they owned slavery. Although, the history of slavery is evil (in the Americas as well as the rest of the world).
  300. Observing trends as they are starting and happening does not make someone evil. We are going to have to get over the brainwashing of stating: Human differences = Nazism. If white people say anything about differences or simply make an observations like "Koreans are not as good at Basketball wereas Africans are amazing"---well they must have a white sheet at home (ala-gringho). European (ie white) interests are always presented as an evil pathology. That is dangerous.

    The Social Scientist of the late 20th centuries will be held in the same light as the Leechers a couple hundred years ago. No one can state that they cannot be wrong. That is not a free and open society.

    No matter how uncomfortable truth may be. The only question that is relevant is "IS IT TRUE". The truth no matter how ugly or impolite is the absolute defense. It was always this way in the West. That is one of the reasons West developed the Scientific Method.
  301. I don't think it's the only question that's relevant. Just because something is "true" doesn't necessarily justify shouting it from the rooftops.

    "Blacks murder more people than whites" and "Blacks have lower IQs than whites" are both currently irrefutable truths. But would that justify, say, building a national curriculum around these truths? A true white supremacist, like those depicted in the movies, (who I think are very, very, very rare in real life) might want to, but I think most reasonable people would see it such a proposition as useless and counterproductive.

    Of course, there may certainly be times entirely appropriate for mentioning those truths. And that is indeed when the very fact of them being truths, however impolite, becomes an absolute defense.

    This is all quite obvious, of course, but I thought it worth mentioning anyway -- might forestall whining by those who always see horror just around the corner anytime race is mentioned, no matter the context.

    PS You sound like a Vdare reader. Are you? If not, you should be. I recommend you give Vdare a read, too, Rearden. No need to agree with everything they say (I certainly don't), and a couple of their writers might put you off (like Sam Francis me), but they've got some well argued positions that you really won't hear many places else. It's worth reading just for Steve Sailer's articles, who I think is the best pundit you've never heard of. (There's a Jew there, too, I think, Rubinstein -- so relax. :))
  302. how come... in the Forbes 400... nobody's black?

    well, maybe Oprah.
  303. I am from one of the nordic countries in europe and moved to Brazil some years ago. I have blond hair, blue eyes and easily get sunburnt. I can say the same for all my family. Still, my genetic composition is not the same as yours, or anyone from my old country.

    It's the stupidifying of science which makes some come with statements like "genetic extinction" when talking about mixing races. You guys obviously flunked every science class - especially biology - when you think your genes gets "less pure" if you stop marrying your cousins and sisters.

    What mamma and pappa told you guys about inbreading as a good purist thing is not right. When you guys look yourselves in the mirror, and comb your hair carefully to hide those protruding big ears of yours ... that's a genetic sign that you guys have gone to far. It was *not* ok when your uncles, bigger cousins and siblings had their way with you guys.

    Just take my word for it, and stop being cronies of other "leaders" hiding under white sheets or brownish shirts ... there is a way out of this circle of suffering and self-hatred you roll around in - looking for a meaning to your existence.

    Oh, and don't worry, I quite easily find an angle for every one of your verbal counter-attacks, and will ridicule you guys still more.
    You are making stupid asses of yourselves.
  304. Saturday, Sept. 3, 2005 10:20 a.m. EDT
    Police Chief: 'Urban Warfare' Slowed New Orleans Rescue

    New Orleans Police Chief Edwin Compass said Friday that hurricane rescue efforts were hampered when relief workers came under attack by the city's criminal element, prompting conditions that resembled "urban warfare."

    "We have never had an urban warfare battle like this on any front in the history of our nation," Compass told NBC's "Dateline."

    "You're fighting in buildings that are pitch black with darkness. These individuals have root - the criminal element have looted all the gun shops and gun stores in this city, so they're armed, they're dangerous."
    Federal Emergency Management Agency Chief Michael Brown, under fire for his agency's slow response, echoed Chief Compass's complaint, telling CNN: "We are working under conditions of urban warfare."

    Though the city's crime rate is ten times the national average, U.S. news outlets downplayed the connection between New Orleans' outsized criminal element and delays in rescue efforts.

    Saturday's London Times, however, painted a bleak picture of the challenges faced by local police as they tried to restore order.

    "One New Orleans police officer wept as he described seeing bodies riddled with bullets, and the top of one man's head shot off. He said some looters were armed with AK-47 rifles, and compared the situation with Somalia, with police outnumbered and outgunned by gangs in trucks . . .

    "An effort to remove patients and staff from Charity Hospital, in the city centre, was suspended after it came under sniper fire . . .

    "'It's a war-zone, and they're not treating it like one,' he said, referring to the federal government . . . Gunmen continued to fire on troops and rescue helicopters, and police officials said that many officers had stopped reporting for duty, cutting manpower by 20 per cent."
  305. It is tragic that the only place one can discuss issues like this is on an anonymous message board. Try it in public and you will find yourself out of a job, courtesy of the PC fascists who control our institutions.

    The American public have been indoctrinated with a lie, namely that multiculturalism and "diversity" (which always means skin color) benefit our society. The concept stands refuted by centuries of history, but our elites have no problems in denying any reality that conflicts with the fantasy world they want to sell us.

    We have a few years left to change course, but I don't see it happening. Too many tenured school teachers, too many cowardly politicians, too many hardcore activists. Our children, if not us, face a future involving balkanization of our southwest, bitter racial conflict everywhere and a growing Islamist insurgency at home. Ultimately, it is a law of nature that if you are not prepared to fight to preserve what is yours, you will lose it.
  306. Why the heck are there troops in New Orleans?


    Our children weren't raised to fight the neocons war for Israel in Louisiana!

    Shame on this fascist government for its brutal repression of the People's Front for the Liberation of Plasma TVs and Assorted Non-Survival Merchandise!
  307. That's the real world, alright. It's always been like that, and always will be, in my opinion. It also applies to all facets of life, even your girlfriend ... dude.

    Talk about stating the obvious.

    Also, I don't see anyone but do-gooders talking about the good of multi-culturalism, but heck, new workers are needed in all the western nations - especially to preserve pensions and future payouts. Several alternative solutions exist, and outsourcing is one of them.

    Talk sound business, then you can start talking sense.
  308. Sometimes, they do.

    <img src=http://rds.yahoo.com/S=96062883/K=bush+ashcroft/v=2/SID=w/l=IVI/SIG=12lokeesb/EXP=1125868640/*-http%3A//www.thegully.com/essays/america/img_usa/ashcroft_bush2.jpg>

    (Sorry, couldn't resist. If we had some Liberals here with a creative sense of humor, I wouldn't have had to do this for them.)
  309. What you're saying is 100% true, yet intelligent people should be able to recognize the meme and swim against the current. You'll never hear me whining about how 'Rich White men suck our society dry.'

    ...no matter how trendy it gets.
  310. TGM, regarding what I said about your philosophies being an unusual and contradictory blend.... don't worry- It's nothing next to this TRIPLE PARADOX MONSTROSITY!
  311. The Rebellion of the Talking Heads
    Newscasters, sick of official lies and stonewalling, finally start snarling.
    By Jack Shafer
    Posted Friday, Sept. 2, 2005, at 2:36 PM PT

    A former deputy chief of FEMA told Knight Ridder Newspapers yesterday (Sept. 1) that there "are two kinds of levees—the ones that breached and the ones that will be breached." A similar aphorism applies to broadcasters: They come in two varieties, the ones that have gone stark, raving mad on air and the ones who will.

    In the last couple of days, many of the broadcasters reporting from the bowl-shaped toxic waste dump that was once the city of New Orleans have stopped playing the role of wind-swept wet men facing down a big storm to become public advocates for the poor, the displaced, the starving, the dying, and the dead.

    Last night, CNN's Anderson Cooper abandoned the old persona to throttle Sen. Mary Landrieu, D-La., in a live interview. (See the video or read the transcript.)

    "Does the federal government bear responsibility for what is happening now? Should they apologize for what is happening now?" Cooper opened.

    As if campaigning before the local Democratic Ladies' Club lunch, Landrieu sing-songed back, "Anderson, there will be plenty of time to discuss all of those issues, about why, and how, and what, and if." She went on to thank President Bush, President Clinton, former President Bush, Senators Frist and Reid, and "all leaders that are coming to Louisiana, and Mississippi, and Alabama, "for their help.

    Her condescending filibuster continued: "Anderson, tonight, I don't know if you've heard—maybe you all have announced it—but Congress is going to an unprecedented session to pass a $10 billion supplemental bill tonight to keep FEMA and the Red Cross up and operating."

    Cooper suspended the traditional TV rules of decorum and, approaching tears of fury, said:

    Excuse me, Senator, I'm sorry for interrupting. I haven't heard that, because, for the last four days, I've been seeing dead bodies in the streets here in Mississippi. And to listen to politicians thanking each other and complimenting each other, you know, I got to tell you, there are a lot of people here who are very upset, and very angry, and very frustrated.

    And when they hear politicians slap—you know, thanking one another, it just, you know, it kind of cuts them the wrong way right now, because literally there was a body on the streets of this town yesterday being eaten by rats because this woman had been laying in the street for 48 hours. And there's not enough facilities to take her up.

    Do you get the anger that is out here? …

    I mean, I know you say there's a time and a place for, kind of, you know, looking back, but this seems to be the time and the place. I mean, there are people who want answers, and there are people who want someone to stand up and say, "You know what? We should have done more. Are all the assets being brought to bear?"

    Landrieu kept her cool, probably because she's in Baton Rouge, while the stink of corpses caused Cooper to tremble in rage all the way to the commercial break.

    Yesterday, on NPR's All Things Considered, Robert Siegel didn't get medieval on Secretary of Homeland Security Michael Chertoff, in part because the microphones there are specially fabricated to decant all emotion from the voices of their reporters. But Siegel aggressively blocked every escape route that Chertoff took to evade hard questions about "corpses" and "human waste" piling up at the city's convention center, where thousands were stranded without provisions. (Siegel gets tough at about minute four in the audio clip.)

    Siegel kept asking Chertoff how long it would take to serve or rescue these people, and a couple times Chertoff answered that the government was doing a great job at the Superdome.

    When he cautioned Siegel about the danger of relying on "anecdotal" "rumors" of people in dire straits, Siegel said, no—these are facts presented by reporters who have covered war zones. There are 2,000 people at the convention center in need, he said. Having finally broken through the steel plate that is Chertoff's skull, the secretary confessed he hadn't heard those reports—reports that the television networks were documenting, live, with their cameras. Chertoff promised he'd look into the matter.

    Several readers directed me to CNN reporter Miles O'Brien's hard-boiled interview with Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour in which he repeatedly invited the governor to agree with him that the federal government had "dropped the ball." When Barbour demurred on this and other points of culpability, O'Brien came back at him without the politesse reporters usually extend to dissembling pols.

    I recall Andrea Mitchell all but editorializing on NBC the other night about Congress taking its sweet time to reconvene and pass a hurricane-relief bill … Fox News Channel's Shepard Smith chasing after a mute police officer down the New Orleans freeway overpass and asking in outrage when the stranded would get help … and MSNBC's Joe Scarborough in Biloxi transforming himself into the voice of the disenfranchised to put in a good word for the looters:

    You got to understand that these are people who have young babies who haven't had water in four days, in some cases, haven't had formula, haven't had basic necessities. I just wonder what you would do, what I would do if we were in a situation where our 15-month-old child or our 2-year-old baby needed something to stay alive. I don't know what you would do. I know I would do anything it took to get what they needed.

    Now, I should be getting it from the federal government if I am in New Orleans, from the state government. But I will tell you what. It is amateur hour, and it has been amateur hour over the past four or five days. This is completely different, friends, from the way the crises were handled in Florida last year, four hurricanes, two of them major, it was handled with ruthless efficiency. I know. I was there. That is not happening tonight in New Orleans.

    This morning the discontent spread to the anchor booth at CNN, as Wonkette notes, when Soledad O'Brien openly mocked FEMA in an interview with its director, Michael Brown:

    As you can tell, the situation clearly is deteriorating. You've got armed bandits roving the streets. They're heavily armed. You've got people living out on the streets with absolutely no protection, no help whatsoever, no food, no water. How many armed National Guardsmen do you have on the ground right now? …

    How is it possible that we're getting better intel than you're getting? …

    FEMA has been on the ground for four days, going into the fifth day. Why no massive airdrop of food and water? In Banda Aceh, in Indonesia, they got food dropped two days after the tsunami struck. …

    It's five days that FEMA has been on the ground. The head of police says it's been five days that FEMA has been there. The mayor, the former mayor, putting out SOS's on Tuesday morning, crying on national television, saying please send in some troops. So the idea that, yes, I understand that you're feeding people and trying to get in there now, but it's Friday. It's Friday. …

    CNN anchor Jack Cafferty growled about the media coverage of Katrina's victims yesterday on Wolf Blitzer's The Situation Room, name-checking me and citing my Wednesday column about the broadcasters' failure to acknowledge the race and economic class of the hardest-hit.

    Said Cafferty:

    We knew it was coming. And yet, the poorest and the neediest and the most helpless of those in New Orleans, well, they're still there, aren't they? Despite the many angles of this tragedy—and lord knows there've been a lot of them in New Orleans—there is a great big elephant in the living room that the media seems content to ignore.

    That would be until now. Slate.com's Jack Shafer wrote today in his column that television coverage has shied away from talking about race and class. Shafer says that we in the media are ignoring the fact that almost all of the victims in New Orleans are black and poor. And he's right. Almost every person we've seen, from the families stranded on their rooftops waiting to be rescued, to the looters, to the people holed up in the Superdome, are black and poor.

  312. Continued:

    Many of them didn't follow the evacuation orders because they didn't have the means to get out of town. They just couldn't do it. A lot of them are sick, a lot of them don't have cars, a lot of them just didn't have the means to leave "The Big Easy." And they're still there.

    This gave the Washington-based Blitzer a perfect opening to comment on race and class, but he stumbled and fell into a "Campanis moment." While airing file footage of victims trudging through hip-deep water looking for help, Blitzer, no racist, said:

    You simply get chills every time you see these poor individuals, as Jack Cafferty just pointed out, so tragically, so many of these people, almost all of them that we see, are so poor and they are so black, and this is going to raise lots of questions for people who are watching this story unfold. [Emphasis added.]

    (Note to Blitzer: You might be one of those guys, like Campanis, who shouldn't talk about race extemporaneously. Next time, try channeling your outrage from the pages of a well-thought-out news script.)

    The rebellion of the talking heads reached its culmination today as CNN.com contrasted "the official version" of events in New Orleans with its "in-the-trenches" account by its reporters and authoritative sources. Muted compared to the on-air growling, the Web story still portrays the government as a pack of liars, or worse, as bumbling idiots. The broadcasters' angry dispatches break with the "public face" they usually give their work: polite, patient, neutral, generous. A steady diet of such confrontational reporting would probably be as edifying as a Jerry Springer show. But when the going gets this tough—when government incompetence and lies become so insurmountable—sometimes the only way to get the story is by getting mad.

  313. A lot of them were stupid. Why not take a bus out of town? Better
    than being stuck in a cesspool. I think a lot of them were fat and lazy...
  314. Good point, swine. Therefore they should be abandoned, they and their children should die from dehydration together with people including babies who had no cars, had nowhere to go or could not afford a hotel.

    Cheney had other priorities and Bush wanted to get on with his life.
  315. I'm no fan politically speaking of Sen. Mary Landreiu (although she's QUITE hot for a chick pushing 50) but to insinuate that a liberal Democrat who was elected on the back of the black vote, who's FATHER WAS MAYOR OF NEW ORLEANS is uncaring, is ridiculous. WTF, now according to the self righteous electronic media, EVERY politician is out of touch?

    There ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ, Ratface, dooodooo, bungrider, I've stuck up the one time in my life for a lib.
  316. Come on, we all know you've stuck up for your beloved and fearless leader, you're just hiding behind the back of a liberal polititian - by defending their incompetence (ignorance, stupidity) you're inderectly defending Bush (given the fact that it's impossible to defend his negligence, incomptence and stupidity directly).
  317. Here's the point that just now is being raised. It's great to say "evacuate 'em." But where? You think it's easy finding shelter for a million people in the rural south? Keep in mind that Katrina was worse wind wise in many places besides New Orleans. In other words it's not like going to Biloxi or Mobile was the appropriate option. I heard someone say "the army could have built a tent city." LMFAO! A tent in a hurricane was a better venue than the Superdome?!

    Bottom line: These storms are going to repeat, and evacuation is NEVER going to be possible. My folks live in South Florida. (in fact they were hit by Katrina as it came through Fl). My parents are old and know that the 5,000,000 people that live in Dade, Broward, and PBC will never be able to evacuate. What are they going to do? Call Disney World and ask if they have lodging available in Orlando for several million. Yea, the conditions in those shelters must have been indescribable. I can't imagine living in the piss, shit of thousands, little food, little water, and death. Guess what? Thats the FUCKING DOWNSIDE TO BEING CAUGHT IN A CAT 4 HURRICANE! It's not a movie!! No the Superdome was not the Ritz. But what the hell was the option?
  318. lets just say it bush was incompetent. Michael chertoff was incompetent, and borderline criminal in his negligence. He keeps saying I was only on the job for 6 months, its my first day excuse. Its not an excuse its time for michael chertoff to at least tender his resignation.

  319. Well said.
  320. I guess we can agree on something. :) I would not stop at Michael Chertoff though, it's the entire administration that's corrupt, incompentent, ignorant and negligent. The war in iraq, the war on terror and even the economy have been mismanaged just as badly as the New Orleans disaster even though it may not be as obvious.
  321. You're just miffed because the Democrats are in the poop shoot.

    What's their platform in the upcoming elections? "Oh we shouldn't have invaded Iraq." That will win votes. LOL.
  322. How about "Republicans killed New Orleans babies". Or "Bush played guitar while New Orleans children were dying from dehydration". Catchy enough?

    PS I am not a democrat BTW even though I vote primarily democratic
  323. If I am swine, then you are the crap that comes out the swines arse...

    No wonder your name is doo-doo... :D
  324. Kind of mixed up then aren't you? Too bad... Hope you are not Schizo... :eek:
  325. http://junkyardblog.transfinitum.net/

    Scroll down and see the hundreds of Public Transit buses now flooded that were within 1 mile of the Superdome.

    Scroll further down and see the hundreds of school buses, now flooded, in one NO lot.

    Also read the paragraph in the NO disaster plan that states these buses must be used for evacuation. 125,000 to be evacuated and these buses could have taken 22,000 per trip.

    The failure to use of even move these buses, not following the plan, is the major problem for the victims.

    On the other hand they are the ones who elected their city and state officials.
  326. Before his election, Nagin was a member of the Republican Party and had little political experience; he was a vice president and general manager at Cox Communications, a cable communications company and subsidiary of Cox Enterprises. Nagin did give donations periodically to candidates, namely President George W. Bush and former Republican U.S. Representative Billy Tauzin in 1999 and 2000, as well as to Democratic U.S. Senators John Breaux and J. Bennett Johnston earlier in the decade.

    Days before filing for the New Orleans Mayoral race in February 2002, Nagin switched his party registration to the Democratic Party, presumably in order to improve his chances of winning the race in heavily Democratic New Orleans.

  327. ______________________________________________

    Just proves that when they become Dems they lose their ability to think. He must have also had to adopt the liberal mindset when he switched which is nearly always fatal.:D
  328. What a complete contrast between NO and Beloxi, Miss.
    Beloxi was hit harder but vittually no looting and violence. Maybe the difference is in Beloxi the citizens have guns. In NO only the criminals and the cops have guns. Maybe, huh.
  329. They are members of the same gang.
  330. New York Daily News - http://www.nydailynews.com
    The ugly truth

    Sunday, September 4th, 2005

    Bubbling up from the flood that destroyed New Orleans are images, beamed around the world, of America's original and continuing sin: the shabby, contemptuous treatment this country metes out, decade after decade, to poor people in general and the descendants of African slaves in particular. The world sees New Orleans burning and dying today, but the televised anarchy - the shooting and looting, needless deaths, helpless rage and maddening governmental incompetence - was centuries in the making.

    To the casual viewer, the situation is an incomprehensible mess that raises questions about the intelligence, sanity and moral worth of those trapped in the city. Why didn't those people evacuate before the hurricane? Why don't they just walk out of town now? And why should anyone care about people who are stealing and fighting the police?

    That hard, unsympathetic view is the traditional American response to the poverty, ignorance and rage that afflict many of us whose great-great-grandparents once made up the captive African slave labor pool. In far too many cities, including New Orleans, the marching orders on the front lines of American race relations are to control and contain the very poor in ghettos as cheaply as possible; ignore them completely if possible; and call in the troops if the brutes get out of line.

    By almost every statistical measure, New Orleans is a bad place to be poor. Half the city's households make less than $28,000 a year, and 28% of the population lives in poverty.

    In the late 1990s, the state's school systems ranked dead last in the nation in the number of computers per student (1 per 88), and Louisiana has the nation's second-highest percentage of adults who never finished high school. By the state's own measure, 47% of the public schools in New Orleans rank as "academically unacceptable."

    And Louisiana is the only one of the 50 states where the state legislature doesn't allocate money to pay for the legal defense of indigent defendants. The Associated Press reported this year that it's not unusual for poor people charged with crimes to stay in jail for nine months before getting a lawyer appointed.

    These government failures are not merely a matter of incompetence. Louisiana and New Orleans have a long, well-known reputation for corruption: as former congressman Billy Tauzin once put it, "half of Louisiana is under water and the other half is under indictment."

    That's putting it mildly. Adjusted for population size, the state ranks third in the number of elected officials convicted of crimes (Mississippi is No. 1). Recent scandals include the conviction of 14 state judges and an FBI raid on the business and personal files of a Louisiana congressman.

    In 1991, a notoriously corrupt Democrat named Edwin Edwards ran for governor against Republican David Duke, a former head of the Ku Klux Klan. Edwards, whose winning campaign included bumper stickers saying "Elect the Crook," is currently serving a 10-year prison sentence for taking bribes from casino owners. Duke recently completed his own prison term for tax fraud.

    The rot included the New Orleans Police Department, which in the 1990s had the dubious distinction of being the nation's most corrupt police force and the least effective: the city had the highest murder rate in America. More than 50 officers were eventually convicted of crimes including murder, rape and robbery; two are currently on Death Row.

    The decision to subject an entire population to poverty, ignorance, injustice and government corruption as a way of life has its ugly moments, as the world is now seeing. New Orleans officials issued an almost cynical evacuation order in a city where they know full well that thousands have no car, no money for airfare or an interstate bus, no credit cards for hotels, and therefore no way to leave town before the deadly storm and flood arrived.

    The authorities provided no transportation out of the danger zone, apparently figuring the neglected thousands would somehow weather the storm in their uninsured, low-lying shacks and public housing projects. The poor were expected to remain invisible at the bottom of the pecking order and somehow weather the storm.

    But the flood confounded the plan, and the world began to see a tide of human misery rising from the water - ragged, sick, desperate and disorderly. Some foraged for food, some took advantage of the chaos to commit crimes. All in all, they acted exactly the way you could predict people would act who have been locked up in a ghetto for generations.

    The world also saw the breezy indifference with which government officials treated these tens of thousands of sick and dying citizens, even as the scope of the disaster became clear. President Bush initially shunned the Gulf Coast and headed to political fund-raisers in the West.

    That left matters in the bumbling hands of the director of emergency management, Michael Brown, who ranks No. 1 on the list of officials who ought to be fired when the crisis has passed. Even as local officials were publicly reporting assaults, fires and bedlam at local hospitals, Brown took to the airwaves to declare that "things are going well" as mayhem engulfed the city. When asked about the rising death toll, Brown attributed it to "people who did not heed the advance warnings." Brown's smug ignorance of the conditions of the place he was tasked to save became the final door slammed on the trap that tens of thousands of the city's poorest found themselves.

    The challenge for America is to remember the faces of the evacuees who will surely be ushered back into a black hole of public indifference as soon as the White House and local officials can manage it. While pledging ourselves to remember their mistreatment and fight for their cause, we should also be sure to cast a searching, skeptical eye on the money that Bush has pledged for rebuilding.

    Ten billion dollars are about to pass into the sticky hands of politicians in the No. 1 and No. 3 most corrupt states in America. Worried about looting? You ain't seen nothing yet.
  331. Dude, you're hopelessly misinformed. (As a Nordic leftist, I guess your rational faculty is beyond salvation.)

    Rationally discussing racial differences goes way beyond alarmist claptrap about "race mixing" and "purity" (the kind you find on, say, Stormfront) and, really, has absolutely nothing to do with "hate".

    The point is races are real and those differences produce differing economic and social outcomes - outcomes that cannot simply be explained away by "hate" and "racism". Understandably, liberals find this terrifying, so the only response they can muster is increased devotional zeal and "hate" of their own (ie "white sheets" and "brown shirts"). While adherence to slogans like "race doesn't exist!" may be comforting, it prevents greater understanding of human biodiversity and how it can be managed to produce better lives for all.
  332. Gunmen Attack Contractors on La. Bridge
    Sep 04 7:08 PM US/Eastern


    Police shot and killed at least five people Sunday after gunmen opened fire on a group of contractors traveling across a bridge on their way to make repairs, authorities said.

    Deputy Police Chief W.J. Riley said police shot at eight people carrying guns, killing five or six.

    Fourteen contractors were traveling across the Danziger Bridge under police escort when they came under fire, said John Hall, a spokesman for the Army Corps of Engineers.

    They were on their way to launch barges into Lake Pontchartrain to help plug the breach in the 17th Street Canal, Hall said.

    None of the contractors was killed, Hall said.

    The bridge spans a canal connecting Lake Pontchartrain and the Mississippi River.

    No other details were immediately available.

  333. Yes, just "throw more money" and everything will be OK. In reality, you can build brand new schools with high-tech science labs and PCs...and they'll be trashed in a few years and literacy rates and SAT scores won't improve. You'll have giveaway programs that are exploited to the hilt, without ever "teaching anyone to fish." etc., etc.

    Sorry to burst your worldview's bubble, but that's the reality from someone who has seen it.

  334. Well, then, explain what those real differences are and back up your words with scientific support.

    You see, there is a whole lot of bullshit about racial differences. The scientific reality is that racial differences are VERY minor.