Home > General Topics > Wall St. News > Health Bill Would Add 3.8% Tax on Investment Income

Health Bill Would Add 3.8% Tax on Investment Income

  1. http://www.businessweek.com/news/20...-add-3-8-medicare-tax-on-unearned-income.html

    I can't believe it! :mad:

    By Ryan J. Donmoyer and James Rowley

    March 18 (Bloomberg) -- Democratic congressional leaders would raise to 3.8 percent the Obama administration’s proposed new Medicare tax on investment income to generate an estimated $210 billion to help fund a health-care overhaul plan.

    The rate is higher than the 2.9 percent President Barack Obama proposed in February. The new tax would apply to income from interest, dividends, annuities, royalties, capital gains and rents for individuals who earn more than $200,000 annually and joint filers reporting more than $250,000, according to the legislation.

    “It’s a big deal,” said Clint Stretch, a tax analyst for the consulting firm Deloitte Tax LLC. “It extends dramatically the reach of the Medicare hospital insurance tax.”

    The first-time Medicare tax on investment income would start in 2013. It would push tax rates on capital gains and dividends that year to 23.8 percent for high-income people if Congress goes along with Obama’s proposal to let those rates rise to 20 percent in 2011 from the current 15 percent. It would be the highest rate for long-term capital gains since 1997.

    The nonpartisan staff of the congressional Joint Committee on Taxation estimated the Medicare tax on investments would generate more than $30 billion annually, or $210.2 billion from 2013 through 2019. It would be the biggest tax increase in the bill and account for half of the $409 billion in total revenue.

    Overall Rates

    Overall tax rates on income from interest, annuities and royalties would rise to as much as 43.4 percent. The Medicare tax wouldn’t apply to income in tax-deferred retirement accounts such as 401(k) plans.

    Obama proposed extending Medicare taxes to investment income as lawmakers sought to merge the House health-care plan, which included a 5.4 percent income surtax on millionaires, with the Senate proposal, which sought to tax expensive health insurance plans over the objections of labor unions.

    The final plan announced today delays the proposed 40 percent tax on high-value insurance plans until 2018, from 2013 in earlier proposals. It also increases the cost threshold affected by the tax, applying it to the portions of plans worth more than $10,200 for individuals and $27,500 for families. The Senate bill would have imposed the tax at thresholds of $8,500 and $23,000.

    In further years, the tax on high-cost plans would affect more insurance plans than earlier proposed, as the plan would reduce the inflation index for that provision.

    Union ‘Victory’

    “Clearly, unions and others concerned with high-cost plans have won a victory in this,” Stretch said. The Medicare tax on unearned income “is a compromise, if you will, between the House and the Senate on the level of high-income taxation that goes into the mixture.”

    The tax on high-cost insurance plans would generate about $32 billion in 2018 and 2019, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation. That’s a fraction of the original Senate proposal to generate about $149 billion from the levy.

    The current 2.9 percent Medicare tax applies only to salaries and is split evenly between workers and their employers.

    The bill adopts a Senate-passed proposal to increase an employee’s share of that amount by 0.9 percentage points, to a total 2.35 percent, for high-income workers. That would be added to the worker’s top marginal rate, which under Obama’s other tax proposals would rise to as much as 39.6 percent.

    Flexible Accounts

    Separately, the legislation would delay until 2013 a new $2,500 cap on the amount of money workers can contribute on a pre-tax basis to employer-sponsored flexible spending accounts to pay out-of-pocket medical expenses. The Senate version of the plan would have imposed that limit starting in January. The new proposal would generate about $13 billion in revenue by 2019, according to the joint tax panel.

    Today’s proposals are “a radical change from U.S. tax policy without much debate at a time when we should shift the fundamental core of U.S. tax policy in a more pro-saving and investment” direction, said Mark Bloomfield, president of the American Council for Capital Formation, a Washington group that lobbies for lower taxes on capital.

    Democrats are seeking the biggest health-care changes in more than four decades. Americans would be required to get insurance, with subsidies and purchasing exchanges to help. Insurers such as Philadelphia-based Cigna Corp. would get millions of new policyholders and be required to accept all customers.

    Tanning Services

    The bill also would impose a 10 percent excise tax on indoor tanning services that is projected to raise $2.7 billion. For everyone but retirees, it would increase to 10 percent the share of income a person would have to spend on out-of-pocket medical expenses before being allowed to deduct them. The current floor is 7.5 percent. The change is projected to generate $15.2 billion.

    The legislation would limit health insurance companies’ tax deductions for pay in excess of $500,000 to their executives.

    It would prohibit paper makers such as International Paper Co. from claiming a $1.01 tax credit for producing fuel from a type of pulp-making byproduct called black liquor. While International Paper and other forest product companies said they weren’t seeking the credit, the IRS determined they might be eligible.

    --Editors: Don Frederick, Laurie Asseo.

    To contact the reporters on this story: Ryan J. Donmoyer in Washington at rdonmoyer@bloomberg.net; James Rowley in Washington at jarowley@bloomberg.net

    To contact the editor responsible for this story: Jim Kirk at jkirk12@bloomberg.net
  2. watch for VOLUME to PLUMMET
  3. The Obamacare/Tyranny bill is about POWER, CONTROL, MONEY, AND WEALTH REDISTRIBUTION... (That's why it's 2700 pages). Healthcare is just the "misdirect"
  4. more about same shit-

    i specially like 200K cap for single and 250K for joint. man..this is totally fair for married couple...i remember times, when in russia taxes are something like 90+%
    the govt. ended up with nothing,because nobody pays those taxes...looks like they learn the lesson with 13% flat tax..tax people too much and they will stop paying at all. tax them more and they will leave the country. US is is certainly on right path for recovery and prosperity.
  5. These tax increases won't be enough to pay for all the spending they want to do. Wealth tax is coming.
  6. though I haven't read too much of the Health bill, i only know the snippets I read here and there, it seems to be washington agenda as per usual. And what I mean by that is pick some bill and pork barrel the hell out of it.

    No congressman really cares about fiscal responsibility because as long as their special interests are served, they don't care what happens. After their done with their term their special interest buddies will set them up with a nice cush job or sit them up on some board to collect those annual director fees for doing nothing.

    The entire system is broke and what needs reform is government itself, not healthcare.
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  8. When will you damn idiots learn that Obama is just carrying on what Bush started? The two parties are both as bad as each other.
  9. Ron Paul 2012
  10. Thanks for the laugh on a snowy and cold West Texas Saturday morning.
  11. Half way there.

    The Nazis top tax rate for capital gains was 100%.
  12. If I'm reading this correctly, this shouldn't apply to traders as our gains are already taxed at the short term capital gains rate, which is just the regular income tax, and not at the long term capital gains rate which is what this tax increase covers. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
  13. but volume is still going to be downwards:confused:
  14. US states sue EPA to stop greenhouse gas rules:

    37 states are fast at working putting amendments to their State Constitutions to protect them from the Fed Health Care Bill.

    3 states, including Texas are drafting up legal documents to sue the Fed Gov over Health Care and stop their states from being under the Rules of Nationalized Health Care.

    There are plenty of things going on right now to warn the Gov. Wallmart is not going to take any new Medicare Clients after april 17th. CAT. said that it would cost them 100 million just the first year, signals massive layoff warnings to Congress.

    So, warnings are going out to congress not to pass this bill.

    Now, if they do, the additional tax on Dividens and Interest will be a big thorn in the side of "Markets" and Banks.

    However, it will only increase the amount of money that I raise for Oil Ventures. The wealthy will remove their money from Bonds, stocks, and CDs, and start to put more of it to work in Private Placments with major Tax Advantages, like Oil and Gas, they will probably look at serious short term protection like Tips as were the can roll in and out trying to keep pace with inflation and the additional tax.

    What is very interesting to me is the US Stock Market seems to be looking past all this into the Nov Elections. Unless we crash next week, which I doubt, the Market is predicting a major victory in congress for the Republicans, who may then, by Super Majority, or more repeal the Obama Health Care Plan and or file suite against the President to Impeach and remove him for violation of the Consitution if passed behind close doors ,using the 51, reconcillation vote.

    This is just a hunch as, the bill is very damaging as CAT has warned.

    Walmart is just the first of many drug stores to hault new clients.

    Oil is up near 80s again, on weak economic data as flight to Quality and Futures markets point to 99 a barrel by NOV.

    Unlike life, living in the moment is blinding when it comes to what is going on. Reading between the lines, will make you money if not very wealthy in years to come with Obama in office.

    Next Stop, massive volitility for the US MARKETS and EURO LAND, which will be great for all the "True" Traders on this site.

    Plenty of money to be made!
  15. bigarrow...no shit. I feel like I'm back in Chicago with the hail and cold that just hit San Antonio this AM.

    Took the dogs out on the riverwalk, big mistake, too damn cold.

    Blood has thined out since I got my ass down to South Texas.
  16. How big were the hail stones. Getting close to roofing season for me, don't like to travel and work but don't like missing a pay day even more.
  17. obama now holds the title of worst president ever pass or not
  18. The way I read it is that all capital gains (long and short) along with interest income, dividends, annuities, royalties and rents will be taxed the 3.8% tax if it is over the 200k/250k threshold.

    Interest income, dividends, annuities, royalties and rental income are all taxed at ordinary rates now. Short-term capital gains are also taxed at ordinary rates. Why would Congress exempt short-term capital gains and not interest income ?, etc... (Does not make sense, although nothing from Washington DC makes sense these days...)

    The only difference is for long-term capital gains, which gets a lower tax rate.

    I guess the devil is in the details. We will know on Sunday? maybe?

    The WORST thing that could happen is that the Health Bill passes and we get the extra 3.8% tax AND somewhere down the line Congress also passes the 1/4 % tax on stock trades. :mad: See separate thread for the details on the 1/4 % tax idea.

    What is this world coming to? :mad:
  19. whats the world coming to?

    i am not sure, but at this rate we will all be socialists here shortly

    get out while you still can

    run for the hills

    Help us Ron Paul !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  20. "They will have to vote on the Senate-passed bill, stuffed with tax hikes, Medicare cuts, and infamous backroom deals, and they will vote on something worse: their 'fix' with more taxes, more Medicare cuts and new special deals," House Republican leader John Boehner said.

    This is exactly what was happening in Europe, especially in Germany, for the past years.
    Pay more, get less.

    B.O. spreads Detroit over the rest of the USA.
  21. Do not!
    Where do you want to go anyway? Canada? Mexico?????
    Stand your ground and FIGHT!!!
  22. i am and will

    but when/if the shit hits the fan----- i will be gone

    i will never pay the tax rates we are headed for----- ever
  23. Social Justice. :mad: :mad:
  24. This medicare tax on capital gain is only for the AMOUNT ABOVE 200k right? for example if you make 230k, only 30k will be subjected to this tax not the entire 230k? can someone confirm
  25. but Europe is still much higher
  26. Those are the introductory rates to get there foot in the door. Most of the voters will not pay at first.

    1913: Congress passed a new income tax law with rates beginning at 1 percent and rising to 7 percent for taxpayers with income in excess of $500,000. Less than 1 percent of the population paid income tax at the time.

    Social Security Act 1935: 2 percent tax, one half of which was subtracted directly from an employee's paycheck and one half collected from employers on the employee's behalf. The tax was levied on the first $3,000 of the employee's salary or wage..................
  27. What you say makes sense.

    Have a friend who has a wife that is a corporate attorney. She makes $200k. He trades full time and makes $225K as an example.

    The threshold for a couple is $250k, so only $175k is subject to this proposed tax. ($200k + $225K = $425K - $250k threshold.
  28. I think you are spot on.

    This is a dynamic change in tax policy. Up until this point, only EARNED income (hourly wages and salary) have been subject to the medicare family of taxes.

    UNEARNED income has always been exempt until this proposal. In the new world order, this is only the start. I think eventually they will slap UNEARNED income with social security taxes, etc....and then the rates charged will start creeping up....:eek:
  29. good for europe

    the us will be there shortly, and i will no longer be here is all i am saying
  30. this is just the start------------

    i see all this shit getting so much worse, we will all be paying 70%

    well those that stay will be
  31. If there's a silver lining, it's that this bill won't kick in until 2014. That means we've got 2 Congressional election cycles and 1 presidential election to get the current cretins out of there and put in some sensible representatives to get this overturned and put us back on the right track. As I see it, this will be the last opportunities we have to fight before we're lost for good.
  32. http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE62I37920100321

    (Reuters) - As the Congress once again rallies to pass healthcare reform legislation, momentum is growing in many states to pass laws to block the changes -- a move that could lead to a legal battle over states' sovereignty.

    Bills and resolutions have been introduced in at least 36 state legislatures seeking to limit or oppose various aspects of the reform plan through laws or state constitutional amendments, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures.


    Many states cite the 10th Amendment, which says "powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states," as proof that the U.S. government cannot set their healthcare laws.

    Gibbs did not accept that complaint. "What we're about to pass and sign into law will meet Constitutional muster," he said.

    Robert Natelson, a constitutional law professor at the University of Montana School of Law, said it would be easier for states to argue for standing to file a lawsuit that claims the federal government has overstepped its constitutional powers.
  33. I have no problem paying 4 cents on the dollar if it will help assure access to, and affordability of health care for another 30 million. I'd prefer to spend my money that way rather than on military hardware or subsidizing Israel's purchase of our military hardware. Speaking of which wouldn't it make sense to reduce by 4% the 4K$ spent yearly per capita on "defense" and divert the savings to seeing that everyone had decent health care? Then we would not need that additional tax on high incomes.

    I don't like our tax structure one bit -- it is a nightmare! But the least we can do is join the civilized world with regard to access to health care.

    If you are making over 200K and can't afford 4 cents on the dollar on your unearned income to help those less fortunate, you are spending too much.

    There is really no point in reducing taxes unless there is a compensating reduction in spending. Otherwise what you naively think you are saving on taxes will be wiped out by inflation.
  34. Ding ding ding! We have a winner. Unfortunately, it won't play out that way. The military industrial complex will see to it that defense spending and wars don't lose a penny. So instead, we the taxpayers will get bled dry, both via taxes and inflation.
  35. Since its the other side who is more bent on using taxpayer money for millitary excesses, why would you wait for 2014 to only see the millitary industrial complex get more taxpayer dollars?

  36. i have no issue with 4 cents on the dollar either

    thats not the point

    the point is

    this is just the springboard for whats to come---

    what exactly do you think is buried in that 2800 page bill?

    how big does the govt need to be?

    how big is too big?

    what are they going to take over next?
  37. we need health care reform. currently system is failing
  38. The surtax is on taxable unearned income (except for retirement plans) if your overall income (including earned income) is larger than 200K or 250K.
  39. So the maximum tax rate will be 43.4%

    (Remember, after this year top rate goes from 35->39.6%)

    if you have short-term gains (ie daytrading, etc) of a year or less and you exceed whatever the income thresholds are, you could be taxed 43.4% BEFORE your state income taxes.

    43.4% is also possible if you own your own biz since you pay the medicare match on your salary (ie you can divert the income to dividends since it would add up the the same since they are increasing the medicare tax to 2.35 for the employee side)

    Wonder what effects its going to have driving up the top federal rate from 35% -> 43.4% over 3 years.

    Is it possible with state taxes of I believe 10%+ max in NJ or close to that in CA that someone could pay over 50% in taxes? I know that state taxes are deductible, but what is the theroretical highest tax you could pay if you lived in a high tax state (CA, NJ, wherever else).. could it exceed 50%?

    Dems/Liberals have Bush/Repubs to thank, if they hadn't screwed up so bad there would have been far more conservatives in House and undoubtedly Senate where this thing wouldn't have gotten through.

    Plus, I dont' believe the tax thresholds are indexed to inflation haha (reading congress.gov) but it changes and there are so many admendments maybe it will(?)

  40. It begins.

    The middle class will soon begin dissappearing because the politicians will never tax the rich, then the currency will begin to fall.
  41. It will be like in Europe.
    We'll have to pay 40% up to 65% of our gross income.
    Capital gains will be taxed just like any other income. And the more money you make the more to the left you find yourself in the tax table.
    There is no other way you can fund a socialist system and big government.
    B.O. opened the big gate to the land of evil.
    This is just the beginning.
    Labor unions will become even more stronger.
    And then we'll find Americans rallying not for more freedom but for more handouts just like in fucking old europe.

  42. not with the gov't controlling the entire thing we dont

    name 1 govt program that has been a success and not lost a shit ton of money

    1. medicaid
    2. medicare
    3. cash for clunkers
    4. the bailout
    5. social security

    name 1

  43. at last someone can actually understand what the fuck is happening

    applause applause

    basically we are all fucked
  44. Well, as I stated the idea is to elect representatives to government who DON'T fit that mold. Note that I never said simply vote Republican. Both parties are at this point just two heads of the same monster.
  45. health care in the u.s is a big issue. imagine your close friend or family who recently laid off and no longer afford to have health care involves in a serious car accident. Next thing you know, ER room denial cares for his/her serious injure. 2 days later, he/she passed away.

    How would you feel?
  46. next example, imagine your close friend/family has a serious cancer and can be cured if his/her health care coverage cover it. Apparently, his/her health care denial coverage to his serious cancer treatment. 2 months later, he/she died.

    How would you feel

    This is not about what political party or baesd on principle. this is about fact of life. If you are rich and have excellent health care coverage, that's good for you. But, your family/friends are not rich like you.

  47. thats not the fucking point

    the point is AGAIN

    why do we need the gov't to control the entire thing in order to accomplish a solution to what you have stated above

    jesus christ, this is exactly why this country is so fucked-----------it is full of morons

  48. same fucking answer

    see above
  49. health care reform is a good start. that will create a new principle of openning up the health care market. if the u.s gov wants to sell their health care plan, so be it and that could lead to openning up nafta.

    for example, canada gov and canada private health care companies can begin selling their coverages in the u.s to compete against the u.s gov

    Western europe and japan will also be allow to sell

  50. you still do not understand what i am telling you

    i am not sure how that is even possible.

    this conversation is like trying to explain nuclear fusion to a 3 year old
  51. let me ask you this TheMan, what is your solution to the health care reform?

    Leave it as it is?
  52. Well, how would YOU feel?
    If you'd feel bad then nobody of us would stop you from taking care of YOUR loved ones.
    But please leave me and others alone with your issues, since YOUR loved ones ARE NOT MY loved ones.
    YOUR life, YOUR responsibility.

  53. Your health care begins with you, and everyone.

    Few of you are willing to take any responsibility at all. Abuse your health, see or wish for a doctor to fix it.

    Never in history have so many people abused their health. Read the statistics. Incidences of common illnesses are doubling every decade, costing hundreds of billions more. The 2.5 trillion spent on health care should be less than 10% of that if individuals took responsibility.

    Almost all illnesses are preventable. The longest lived cultures in the world have the healthiest populations, with practically no health care system or little spent.
  54. More competition and deregulation would be good. That would lead to lower rates and better service.
    Actually before WW2 Americans were able to choose insurers from other States.
  55. As already stated, i would increase competition and deal with the pre-existing condition issue.

    while i was at it, i would also abolish the IRS, start a flat tax, cut the gov't in half, fire all senators and house members, re-elect their positions, remove their benefits, send everything i fucking had to the middle east and finish the war in 1 maybe 2 days tops, close all military bases around the world, bring our troops home, enforce our borders, stop getting involved with all the BS around the world, deport all illegals and hopefully get a BJ at the end of accomplishing all of that in my first day in office.

    shit maybe i should just go ahead and run in 2012

  56. [​IMG]

    Thats what you get for subsidizing crooked doctors, illegals of all stripes, scammers, thieves, hypochondriacs, adding a week to a life for 250k, being a bend over kinda guy.


  57. I could have told you what was happening 20 years ago.

    We have MOSTLY two kinds of people in this country.

    The overpaid (doctors, wall St) , and the welfare class who demand a middle class existence simply for being alive.

    Which are you? Neither? Sap.
  58. TheMan, the question is how u will get the votes to passed all the bills?

    Abolish IRS? That is immpossible. How will you get senators and house to passed that bill?

    Ron Paul is a great man, he will not live to see his principle passed unless texas secede from the U.S.

    United State is a big big country and the largest melting pot. The only way you can achieve your principles are to secede from the U.S.
  59. well, i would have to be President. Would you vote for me if i ran with all of those things as the base of my campaign?

    my point is

    What this country needs, and what the gov't thinks it needs are completely opposite things.

    Making the Gov't larger in order to accomplish a reform of HC is just plain retarded.

    What about the Dec. of Independence ?

    What happened to all the fundamentals this country was built on?

    Where did they all go?

    We are in the stages of a complete Gov't takeover of everything any American ever valued. The sad part of it, people are too stupid to realize it is happening and/or are ok with it.
  60. we need reform so there will be competition. adding 30 million paying insured is a good thing. removing pre-existing condition is a good thing. Finally insurers have to actually compete and not raise rates 20% EVERY YEAR. wish I had 20% every year compounding my money.
  61. like i said, the only way to achieve your principle is secession. Texas, NV and others are Libertarian state and should be secede from the U.S. California, NY, IL, MI, UT, AZ, and others are the people who wants gov to control their lives.

    Therefore, you should promote secession and splt the U.S in half like the civil war in the 1860s We have many generals like Robert E Lee now
  62. Social Security has been a great success in preventing abject impoverishment in old age or disablement. The program is efficient and has worked out exactly as envisioned when first adopted. It has been completely self supporting via the separate social security tax. It will require only minor tweaking to take into account changing demographics to make it secure into the foreseeable future, if done now and not put off.

    The problem social security faces has nothing to do with any defect in social security itself. The problem now faced is that the money the government has borrowed from the S.S. trust fund can not be paid back to the fund by the government from current revenues without significant cuts in current spending. This is not a fault of social security.

    Medicare, admittedly has not worked as well, mainly because medicare consists of government payments on your behalf to a Cartel. This is a far cry from the efficiency and soundness of social security which is sound and 100% controlled by the government .
  63. And I need Lasik surgery. I just prefer someone who has some competence do the surgery.

  64. and as i said it is not sound. Why?

    Because the govt borrowed from it bec they run it. So they can do what ever they want to do. They cant pay it back because they are broke.

    And let me guess, you think this gov't healthcare is a good thing dont you?
  65. Watch'n the Cspan votes.....Here we go....Passing the biggest move to privatize one of the largest industry in the country.

    Bye bye miss american pie....

    Thank god I'm in the Oil business....as things crumble, the future holds the fate of the dollar, the market , and companies to lay off 100,000s of thousand more people, interest and dividens taxed even more, income taxes being raised.......OIL is creeping up up up....

    Thank God for the black gold!
    Thankf God for the good state of TEXAS.

    The rest of you who voted for Obama and his ideas...congrats..you'r about to live in the perfect bed for you and you'r state who will pay the ultimate price. Hats off to you...

  66. last hour of being an American

    hope everyone enjoys it
  67. How on earth can a man believe that insurance companies should not be allowed to deny coverage for an existing condition.

    Shit it shouldnt be long before we are legally allowed to take loaded dice to the casino.

    Fixing HC in the USA would be hugely detrimental to the economy for a few years. Maybe even worse than the recession.

    But here is how you do it.

    1. do away with the tie between insurance and regular non emergency healthcare.

    2. Do away with the tie between employment and health insurance.

    3. provide for goverment run FINANCING for the health care cost of the poor.

    Bingo, five years or so of economic adjustment and the healthcare problem is solved.
  68. good god. It appears every thread on sillyTrader is full of posts from the same loser fuckwits who think the world is ending because a black man is president.

    The same evangelical loser fuckwits who don't appear to have any issues with monkeys endless wars.

    Close to 1 Trillion spent on monkey and his evangelical supporters global cluster fucks. And not one peep from these fuckwits.

    Not only do you fuckwits lack common sense and any semblance of human decency. You lack morality.
  69. LOL,

    Fucktwits....typical banter from a liberal who will soon be unemployed.
  70. passed 219 vs 212
  71. New Science Fiction Film in production

    Obama visits Uranus.

    Let me know if someone steals that.
  72. Markets hate uncertainty. So they will head down. How far depends on a number of factors. If Obamacare is total uncertainty with health care costs spiraling out of control:
    - No one gets turned down. Guess who gets to pay? Voters? Why no its business. Then business will raise prices to cover cost and pass health care cost back their employees. Then employees who have less as consumers spend less.
    - Then there are the new taxes and Medicare fee loss. Healthcare and in particular hospitals will ask insurance companies for 50% to 60% increases to cover cost increases, loss of Medicare fees and increases of 20% in patient loads.
    - Employees will find insurance changes in the mail from the above two with a bill that 40 to 60% higher than the previous. This is the beginning of the health cost spiral.
    - Some profitable small businesses will be shut down by Obamacare.
    - Some multinational big businesses will review expanding employment elsewhere because of spiraling health care costs here.
    - National big business will put hiring on hold until cost structures from Obamacare are clearly defined.
    - Court challenges to this bill by states will further muddy the bills status.
    - New statements by democrats to pass a public option to the bill before November will drive health insurance stocks into the ground.

    These are just some of things that may drive consumers and businesses to hold onto cash flow until the smoke clears. If this happens the expansion is in trouble and so is the market.

  73. blow me
  74. wrong board, nutwing faggot.

    Probably yet another nutwing child molester.


  75. nutwing

    and fuckwits

    i bet you are glad the HC bill passed. You will fit right in with the rest of the socialists

    you little cunt
  76. Wrong board that's rich you're the jackass that tries desperately to turn everything on here into something about Bush's presidency why don't you go back to the Huffington post, and before you get yourself into a self righteous lather I'm not saying Bush was a great president.

  77. Wrong board again.

    Try the mens washroom at the local gay bar. You might become famous like all the nutwing evangelical lowlifes in congress who are in the news trying to hit up other guys for anal sex. :D

  78. I think it is an improvement over the current disastrous situation. I would prefer a free enterprise, competitive health care environment as my first choice; second choice would be a single payer, not for profit system; third choice would be the Bill just now passed but with a public option; fourth choice would be the Bill just passed without the public option but with reconciliation changes, and a distant fourth choice, from my point of view, would be the present medical Cartel, which horrible as it is, is at least better than health care in Botswana.
  79. anyone with half a brain should go short and fade you people.

    I don't support Obama anymore because he has failed to do anything he promised he would.

    However in ramming through the health care bill he is fading the worst sub-human neanderthals to infest politics. He is fading the people who are the core reason for the financial disaster we are in.

    I support anyone who fades the evangelical tea gagging low life satanists.

  80. You have a fucking reading comprehension problem amongst your many other problems what I'm saying is why don't you take your incessant political bullshit to a politics board instead of a trading board you are an annoying broken record.

  81. LOL :)
  82. Even funnier
  83. Please, please... stop quoting fkbushites, we all have him on ignore and had forgotten of his exsitence.. when you quote him it's like you turn a rock over and we all have to look at the maggots or something... jeez..
  84. [​IMG]

  85. Yes, we need health care reform. Not a government takeover of the health care system. We need more affordable health care, period. Not a redistribution of wealth.
  86. [​IMG]
  87. "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need"

    Sounds idyllic doesn't it ?

    74 years of the Soviet Union proved otherwise.
  88. Because its unethical do deny healthcare coverage to sick people.
  89. What's 3.8% compared to the millions of people that are currently dying down your street?
  90. Its Ok, there WON'T BE ANY CAPITAL GAINS to tax by the time OB and Pelosi are done.
  91. well guys. the health care reform passed. get over it and begin trading!

  92. Social welfare

    Yes, it all starts with 3.8% to pay for social welfare the rehab for the kid on drug overdose. Then more kids drop out of school, crime increases, taxes go up and then costs begin to spiral out of control to pay for the welfare state that emerges.

    But there is a way out of this. You must discipline these drop out kids who expect automatic welfare. So conscription to the military starts to teach these punks some discipline. Then the military gets to big. So you need to find a war to keep all of these kids occupied.

    I left most of it out but this is how socialism ended with the Nazis and Communism. Total socialist government control has yet to have a happy ending…

    Insurance Companies

    How on earth can a man believe that insurance companies should not be allowed to deny coverage for an existing condition?

    You will no longer have to worry about pre-existing conditions because soon there will be no insurance companies…

    Because it is unethical to deny healthcare coverage to sick people.

    On a recent trip my wife and I had a taxi driver in Britain help us find a hotel. He was very kind. The man had a bad cold. My wife ask him “…Is your national insurance good about treating things like your cold.” The reply was “Yes, mum, couldn’t be better. The doc’s take quick care of me….But don’t get bad sick…Just lost me misses… she never got near them (doctors) and died a cancer right away…”

    Businesses essential to this country can’t take these rising health care cost.

    No need to worry. They will all be nationalized and made part of the government.

    Won’t rising taxes on the super rich shut down the luxury goods industries in this country?

    Yes. The super rich are not dumb. They are now multi-national. They and their money will flow away from our country to where it is unimpeded by government control. This will leave the middle class strapped with high taxes and cost to pay for those on social welfare.

    And this is only the beginning of the changes to come..
  93. answer


  94. How much lower can it go? You mean the 5 computers ping-ponging stocks back and forth will stop, too?
  95. Holy crap, that's a big street! Millions!
  96. actually a lot of programs have also stopped, they are simply making very little money right now, I think NYSE 500 million shares would be considered a normal day in time to come.
  97. Wait till the next bill, not the Immigration but the Banking bill.

    If that is passed, volume in the NYSE and typical stocks in general will dry up faster than ......Texas in a drought.

    It will be interesting to see where people decide to put their money. The Average joe, not the wealthy...as the wealthy have a lot more options to put money to work.

    Lets see where the Average Joe will put his money to work......

    Rumor has it....the new "IN" is being a Insurance Salesmen. LOL, insurance policy is the next big 'Money Maker' according to reports outa the WallStreet Journal..... Food for thought for all those "StockBrokers" out there.
  98. The confusing thing is how to factor the 3.8% Medicare tax when it comes to the 60/40 rules for 1256 contracts?

    60% is long term capital gains, 40% is short term.

    Do you simply calculate the 60/40 as you normally do, then add 3.8% to that number? Seems logical since the 60 and the 40 = capital gains.
  99. nLepwa, if only that was true :(
  100. (Reuters) - Less than 24 hours after the House of Representatives gave final approval to a sweeping overhaul of healthcare, attorneys general from several states on Monday said they will sue to block the plan on constitutional grounds.

    Republican attorneys general in 11 states warned that lawsuits will be filed to stop the federal government overstepping its constitutional powers and usurping states' sovereignty.

    States are concerned the burden of providing healthcare will fall on them without enough federal support.

    Ten of the attorneys general plan to band together in a collective lawsuit on behalf of Alabama, Florida, Nebraska, North Dakota, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Texas, Utah and Washington.

    "To protect all Texans' constitutional rights, preserve the constitutional framework intended by our nation's founders, and defend our state from further infringement by the federal government, the State of Texas and other states will legally challenge the federal health care legislation," said Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott, in a statement.

    The Republican attorney generals say the reforms infringe on state powers under the Constitution's Bill of Rights.

    Virginia Attorney General Kenneth Cuccinelli, who plans to file a lawsuit in federal court in Richmond, Virginia, said Congress lacks authority under its constitutional power to regulate interstate commerce to force people to buy insurance. The bill also conflicts with a state law that says Virginians cannot be required to buy insurance, he added.

    "If a person decides not to buy health insurance, that person by definition is not engaging in commerce," Cuccinelli said in recorded comments. "If you are not engaging in commerce, how can the federal government regulate you?"

    In addition to the pending lawsuits, bills and resolutions have been introduced in at least 36 state legislatures seeking to limit or oppose various aspects of the reform plan through laws or state constitutional amendments, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures.

    So far, only two states, Idaho and Virginia, have enacted laws, while an Arizona constitutional amendment is seeking voter approval on the November ballot. But the actual enactment of the bill by President Barack Obama could spur more movement on the measures by state lawmakers.

    As is the case on the Congressional level, partisan politics is in play on the state level, where no anti-health care reform legislation has emerged in Democrat-dominated states like Illinois and New York, according to the NCSL.

    Florida Attorney General Bill McCollum, a Republican candidate running for governor, said the mandate would cost Florida at least $1.6 billion in Medicaid alone.

    All states would receive extra funding to cover Medicaid costs that are expected to rise under the reform, including 100 percent federal coverage for new enrollees under the plan through 2016.

    Medicaid is the healthcare program for the poor jointly administered by the states and federal government.