Home > General Topics > Trading > GRASSROOTS EFFORT to take on the SEC (esp. read if you are sick of the SEC)

GRASSROOTS EFFORT to take on the SEC (esp. read if you are sick of the SEC)

  1. Are you sick of the SEC in all their "infinite" wisdom ruining our markets, me too. This new movement to regulate short selling STINKS of politics and undoubtedly can hurt our markets, our profession and for many of us our livelihood. This link for this article was recently posted on RT


    Remember the day trading rule and the $25,000 rule that DEFINITLEY hurt us, it started from a few murmurs like this. I dont know about you, but i wish i would have done more back then to try and de-rail that as well...maybe to no avail but at least i would feel better.

    I started this thread to discuss what we can do in terms of writing emails, gathering siganture, phone calls, writing the SEC, etc.... ET has what 15,000 members now. its time to use that clout to the benefit of trading rather than whine about somebodys dumb poll...

    I am not wasting any time or space to discuss why this is bad for trading, as i assume everyone on here will be in agreement. what is not coincidental is this is politcally motivated by, as far as i can tell know fannie and freddie making alot of the stink, and these are non-capitalist enteties trying to impose anti-capitlist measures on our free markets. we cant let anymore anti-capitalism seep inot our market which we all know must remain as free and pure as possible.

    The SEC is reviewing proposals NEXT WEEK. I am just beginning my research now so i dont even know what politicians are pressing this issue, but we need to find out and threaten to BOOT them out of office, the only thing that will motivate them and get their attention. BOTTOM LINE is we need to not only talk about it but also DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT...if you are someone who will take the time to whine and cry on ET about the SEC but wont take the same time to write their rep or call their congressman, this is not the thread for you. I cant stand people that bitch about an issue and then dont practice their democratic gift to do something.

    AND the other issue is there is talk they want to EXPAND the SEC? i cringe at the thought. the basic nature of a regulator is to regulate so long as we have the SEC they will try and find ways to tinker with the market to justify no only their existence but also their paycheck. and now they want more of these bozos. let them investigate fraud and corrupt CEO's and books all tehy want BUT STAY OUT OF OUR MARKETS!!!!!!

  2. ding. ding. ding. (thats the fight bell siganling the round is over)
  3. Like for PDT, they are asking you what you think just to have new arguments to present not to take them into account :D

    I bet that some day they will also ask 50000$ to open a future account, I have already heard the rumor on that :)

    With electronic market they don't need independant traders or small brokers anymore to be middle men between them and the mass public so they will begin to concentrate, it's a logical business way of doing things in an oligopolistic world, so why are you so surprised ? And another thing they will prefer that mass public put their money into funds hand manager than they trade for their own so expect new law towards that also: why bother with uncontrollable public while they can control a few managers that are their salaries in banks :D You are so naive if you think that market exists for your interest.
  4. RIAS: I'm having trouble locating the exact propsed rule change. If I'm going to write someone I want to read and understand the proposal prior to writing. Can you post an exact link or the proposal itself please>
  5. Higher fees, higher account, higher margin call, higher speed, higher taxes : prepare for that or you will be washed out like some french floor traders who didn't expect it. If you are swinger you won't feel too much affected but if you are scalper the difference can be huge.

  6. Harry, you are so french its not even funny! you are just the type of person i DONT want on my thread. its easy to take the cynics view, its easy to list all the reasons why the deck is stacked against you, because you are mostly right...but what is not easy for people to do is to do something about it, even though it takes the same effort! i just wrote my senators, congressman and the SEC, that gives me the RIGHT to bitch about it. just like a vote and that gives me the right to bitch about politics. but someone who crys but deonst take the time to get off their lazy ass and vote or write their rep IMO has no right to bitch about the legislation that gets passed! LEAD, FOLLOW, or get out of the way comes to mind, as does FIRST ONE TO CRITICIZE LAST ONE TO HELP

    harry, i have said this before, you are a wierd dude and i often find myself disagreeing with you on issues, but i do respect you and feel you are an intelligent person with whom one can have an intelligent debate with so keep coming back!!!
  7. there is no formal proposed rule change yet, which is why this is the best time to head it off and take the wind from their sails. in my experience "proposed rule chages" almost always become law, so i dont want to even see it get that far. remember they are regulators and they get PAID to pass this crap!!!!
  8. It's not being cynical it's just being realistic :) If you want to be really efficient to change I think you'll have to find some genious ideas I don't know what but it's like David and Goliath. You know I'm for David so I encourage you to do so. Nevertheless if you have to keep your energy for something else like for trading. If I could I would put some SEC's in prison :D

  9. Personally LOVE the PDT rule and hope they don't change it. There is no need for people less than that amount to daytrade the market. You have to understand there are numerous people who would rather goto companies like Bright and other props, or sit home and gamble rather than goto A.C. There needs to be grassroots to increase this amount to 50,000 so we don't have another daytrader shoot up the office cause he blew his account. 25k is not a lot of money. Get a job and raise that amount then daytrade. The SEC finally got it right!! Congrats!

  10. Sammybea; if you love it that's fine. The rule does not affect me but I have to ask the question. What gives you the right to decide who trades what, when or how or determine other people's "needs" ?

    That said, I agree that it's best to increase your working capital and a job seems to be a good way to do that.

    The markets need to be more democratic, not less.
  11. ...die for this... PERIOD.

  12. Good point.. nothing gives me the right to determine for others. But if anyone thinks the markets are democratic by any means, i could sell them a bridge. I think this is one rule that benefits retail investors, but then again, there are many that don't. I would gladly oppose this rule if others were axed as well.
  13. Yeah I'd just like to see some of the older rules enforced. Especially backing away from posted quotes.
  14. Free markets for free men. The SEC has co-opted American virtues repeatedly. If I wanted someone looking over my shoulder I'd live in Europe. Fuck the SEC and double fuck the United States Federal Government.
  15. SEC/government hater, here. ::raises hand::

    F. PeBBLe :(
  16. Special interest groups are at their dirty f8cking lobby work again! Stop them before they stops the freedom!

  17. You have no concept of what a 'RIGHT' is. so use a different word.

    And I'm going to have to agree with Harry on this one. The way people think in this country is F'ed up, so there really is no point in playing their asinine game of politics because you can't win an argument against an irrational person who has accepted an irrational philosophy and who is a mystic(someone who doesn't require proof to believe something but relies on other and other's arguments).

    What is needed is an argument against their philosophy and their inability to understand what made this country different from all of the societies before it: recognition of man's rights.
  18. sammy, it's people like you that make the stupid politicians think they're doing the right thing. I think your post is arrogant and at best idiotic. Increasing the PDT rule to 50K will not deter someone from going on a rampage and killing other people, and setting a $ figure on someone's account does not mean the trader is a better trader if he/she can come up with the money.

    By saying you "personally LOVE the PDT rule" only means that your arrogance comes from your selfish mentality, and you say that only because it apparently does not effect YOU. You remind me of the people in Washington who stood and pumped gas while that person was being shot and didn't try to help. :mad:
  19. OMG, you are a FOOL!

    You don't ruin things for everyone because of a few losers. There's a few bad apples in any group. Your argument that PDT should be increased to $50k so daytraders don't shoot up offices is ABSURD! Where do you draw the line? Let's make kitchen knives illegal because murderers have used them to kill people.

    You are so clueless, I don't even know why I'm wasting time responding to your nonsense.

    FRuiTY :(
  20. Just admit the real reason you want the PDT rule at $50k is that it reduces competition.
  21. LOL... by comparing me to someone who walked away from a murder shows one thing. You are unstable. Maybe you compare your inability to get 25k to people dying, but lets face it, you are the type of person who will kill if you lose money. Its sad, but you just reinforced the idea that the limits are too low. I hope the managers of prop firms have guns, because people like you do exist.
  22. Nope, just keeps the gamblers who are unstable to a min. Who wants the threat of another shooting.
  23. You gotta be congratulating yourself so far that there has been no shooters among those were pushed to risk more than 25K to PDT stocks and stock options , or those were pushed to trade futures and lost, or those who lost jobs at Enron,Worldcom because the SEC didn't do its primary job but focused on crooking corrupt policies like the PDT rule in 2001.

    Again, you still ignore the fact (or don't understand a thing), that the PDT rule claims to protect the brokers, and actually was designed to benefit special interest groups and lobbyers.


  24. The PDT rule would have not affected the Atlanta shooter Mark Barton's ability to trade. I think I remember he had something like $400,000 when he started trading.
  25. sammy, you're wrong again. I never said I didn't have the 25K. In fact, I have more than enough to open several 25K accounts. I merely read your post and saw a blatant expression of arrogance and stupidity.

    My opinion is that freedom of trade should be for everyone-- not just the elite few, and it bothers me that the PDT rule goes against everything that free trade stands for. Your arrogance and narrow focus on yourself is the same type of mindset that brought the PDT rule into effect by its creators.

    If you're willing to except the possibility of more and more restrictions on your freedom, then I can understand your apathy.
    If not, you might want to re-think what you're saying.
  26. Man, you are just incredible. You are one sorry ass..let me tell you. I rate you a 9 (out of 10) on the stupid scale.

    F. PeBBLe :(

  27. BUT.. if there was a PDT rule, he would have been left with 25k.. instead of 0. The SEC is a lot smarter than you think.
  28. You obviously take things very personally. Comparing me to someone who stands by while a murder happens means you are unstable. You fail to see where reality begins and ends.
  29. Fruity, out of your 150 posts, you have barely touched on any relavent topic on trading. Just click on your posts and look at them.
  30. I've been reading the rantings of some on the non trading threads expounding the idea that America is the land of the free.

    Well the SEC and others with vested interests (Oil, Exchange fat cats etc) are quietly working on disabusing us of that notion.

    Therefore any action to bring one's disapproval to the SEC's attention must be worthwhile to uphold the rights of the little guy.
  31. And why not forbid casino then ? 25K is not a lot of money for you and for me or others and I even said that for daily scale it is not enough. But for others it can be a lot of money and sorry A GOOD TRADER CAN BEGIN EVEN WITH LESS THAN 25K if he chose the right scale and right market. Imagine a young talentful trader who doesn't have those 25K why should he have to wait 25K ?

    Those kind of answer just reminds me of the "The Snobbery factor" on a linuxian magazine whose editorial says:


    "The funny thing is those who are first to respond to a query from a new user with the line "Read the fucking manual" (RTFM) are the same ones who as new users themselves benefited from the careful and patient guidance of older members of a mailing list in the past. "

    And it is not only about PDT, it's about general rules change that will affect everybody. As for europe they will little by little change the deposit and margin call etc...

    To cite the same magazine:

    "Could it be your afraid of the competition? "

  32. Some observations after reading the FT article link at the begining of this thread.

    The article seems to be very loosely written. Several of the authors points seem to have no substance.
    e.g... "Under current rules, traders can take out "naked" short positions over an unlimited number of shares"
    I'm no expert on SEC and stk mkt rules, but there seems to be 2 inaccuracies in that statement alone,
    and then...."Regulators are less concerned...w/ the most liquid stocks, and may even consider loosening the rules for larger co's."

    That statement seems to indicate that the decision has already been made.

    I'm wondering, is this author just trying to sensationalize an issue that really is not on the table??

    Are there any other articles/publications/anyone talking about this issue.

    Handcuffing this industry by not being able to short sounds ridiculous to me (I,m a futures trader).

  33. sammy,

    unfortunately the PDT rule wouldn't have prevented anything. That was a retail account Barton was trading. He could have easily covered any minimum with the insurance money he collected after killing his first wife and mother-in-law. You can't blame "daytrading" for those deaths now can you? The prop firms might have actually weeded this guy out but he would have eventually blown his money with an online broker. Bottomline this guy was a bad seed!!!!
  34. let me give SEC a piece of suggest, how about instead saying that individuals/small traders cannot PDT, why not ban Instituational/Firm traders from PDT. instead considering to remove the right of short from individuals traders, why not restrict the unlimited privilege from the institutions and special interest groups. I love to see this happen. f8ck all of them.

  35. That's would be logical since they are the majority of operators counting for 95% (in France in US it should be less ) : does it mean that the minority can eat so much of their apple pie :D

  36. Thanks harrytrader for suggesting my advice to SEC are logical.


    Let me correct my grammar, a piece of advice. Fingers typed "suggest" rather than "advice" or "suggestion".


  37. Unfortunately you are still missing the point IMO. At least in the US the question should be; "why restrict anyone? What's good for one should be good for all" No special privileges for anyone !
  38. Well, I would not have been complaining if the rules and proposals apply to everyone equally fair.


  39. I find that hard to believe>

    Rather than propose rules on NO ONE you propose rules be applied to others. Your victim mentality is showing again.
  40. So what?!

    Fight the special interest f8cking groups before fighting me, okay? I am a small nothing.



  41. Thanks. You just made my point better than I could have. I'm sorry you feel that way about yourself.
  42. No problem. You are welcome to feel sorry about yourself.


  43. Are you truly stupid or just obtuse?
  44. Choose not to answer your under-smart question.


  45. sammy, you're the one that appears to be unstable and takes things personally. If not, why did you respond to my first post twice. Why don't you go back and re-read and respond to my last post before this one; it poses an important question to you.

  46. You simply want to away from the idea that you compared another poster to a murderer.. or worse, someone who steps over a dead body. Statements like that would highly concern me if you worked in a prop firm. Burton was unstable.. much like yourself.

    Please find some help before you snap. As a warning to prop managers, people like this guy really do exists. He, or people like him, like to equate murder and anything that may upset them. Protect yourself.
  47. I will not respond any longer to this thread.
  48. actually wouldn't stop him

    That Atlanta shooter had over $200,000 originally
  49. You probably need to go back over to yahoo where you might feel more at home.:D
  50. Amen! I will be happy if SEC doesn't succeed in implementing this yet another idiotic idea (after Pattern Daytrader crap).
  51. The links to the SEC on page one of this thread posted by Ron In a Sauna, worked effectively to get some responses. The regional SEC offices have all acknowledged receipt of my emails opposing the proposed rules.

    Hoping others here will email the SEC also.

    Thanks Ron, for the post.
  52. I too have no problem with the 25k PDT rule....it's how you put the rule in that bothered me....for years anyone could trade with less then 25k, then all of the sudden you have a trader who has 10 years experience being forced to change because he decided to pull money out and buy a home in 2001...there should have been a grandfather clause or a certification of trading hat would allow the individual to attest to his experience and net worth in lieu of the 25k....I do have to wonder though: why did they wait until the market was in shambles before putting in the rule? kind of defeats the purpose but on the other hand, how many people probably saved $$ by not being able to trade the last year and a half?
  53. OK, the link in the first post of this topic wants me to become a 'subscriber'... even though it says 'free trial' it still wants my credit card. :(

    Anyone have a link to this article (or a similar one) that doesn't entail going through a bunch of claptrap to get to it?