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Government Unions vs. Taxpayers

  1. I'm a gov't employee, so lets get a few things straight:

    1) "Federal employees receive an average of $123,049 annually in pay and benefits, twice the average of the private sector"

    WRONG ! Its amazing how so many of you morons believe the media on this absolutely bloated number. Do you really think the average fed employee gets that much in pay and benefits ?

    2) "Unions are not needed in the public sector"

    WRONG ! If you worked in federal law enforcement, you'd know rather quickly how important it is. You are treated like a number rather than a person sometimes, and if you get in a sticky situation, good luck. Unions help to represent you. Add that to the fact that you have high level administration who have never worked in the trenches trying to create policy. You absolutely need a union to keep things in check.

    Is it so bad to have a union that asks for a small 2 or 3% raise every year ? Doubtful. Yah, us feds are so spoiled.

    Lets go back to pay and benefits.

    If you work at the Bureau of Prisons, max non-supervisory pay is $58,000 gs8. At the marshalls, its $64,000 gs9. This is generally obtained after about 15 years of service. Starting pay is $38,000 both places.

    Lets use the BOP as an example. $58,000 base pay. If you work all holidays and evening shift, your pay is now $66,000. Add medical benefits $500 / month, you're at $72,000. Add the 401k match, 2900, you're at $75,000. Thats total pay and benefits.

    Marshalls, just add about $7,000 to that, and thats $82,000 TOTAL pay and benefits after 15 years.

    Obviously there are agencies that make more and make less. But this figure I'm using is about the same for all fed. law enforcement. Some agencies add 25% more to that as they get 25% added to their pay in case they have mandatory OT.

    Now, this is LAW ENFORCEMENT PAY. It is higher than the regular GS schedule. So a GS5 law enforcement makes a lot more than GS5 non-law enforcement.

    And you can bet that the average Fed worker is not a GS13 or higher. As the only way this $123,000 can make sense is if the workers were all GS13. At my place of employment, there's only 7 people out of 350 that are GS13 or higher.

    Now lets discuss defined-benefit plans, ie pensions for gov't workers. How to expect the gov't to keep its employees without a benefit that outweighs the private sector. The gov't DEFINITELY PAYS LESS than the PRIVATE SECTOR. All gov't employees know this. But somehow the media thinks differently. Why shouldn't i seek more income if I can get it in the private sector ? Its simple, gov't pays less b/c they private a pension during retirement. Also, its a statisctical fact that law enforcement officers live on average 15 years less than everyone else b/c of the stress. How will the gov't retain loyal, talented people without good benefits. You'll have crazy turnover !

    Ok thats it for now. I might add more later.
  2. I do not work for the government and I do not envy them. Having said that, the kind of work force that works for the government is very different from the private sector. Most highly qualified people do not join the government sector, as in computing, engineering, research, medicine etc. Also, there is a catch in having a government job, that one becomes quite unqualified for the private sector after having worked in the government sector in most cases. The paper pushers in the city halls who make close to 100K in salary and benefits will not make even half of that if they have to look for a private sector job in most cases. So, the unions in government sector jobs are kind of needed to help protect those jobs. Private sector jobs will continue to be high risk high reward jobs. No one complained about the government sector salary in the 90s when government sector was getting 2% raises and the private sector was getting 10-20% raises annually.

    We need to be fair. I do have to say that the early retirement with 50-75% salary and then joining the same job as a consultant is an abuse of the system and is a disservice to the tax money. There are other issues like this as well that need to be sorted out.

  3. DOn't get that much from pension. After 20 years of service, you get 34% of your salary. each additional year is 1% for law enforcement. Non law enforcement is believe the requirement is 30 years of service, and 34%.

    its impossible to get over 50% of your salary in fed. law enforcement gs scale at retirement as max retirement age is 57, and minimum starting age is 21.
  4. i know all the doctors i know love to see government workers because they have the most cush insurance plans (besides other doctors that is)- benefits are never taken into account when government workers get all huffity-puffity trying to defend their outrageous total compensation packages.

    as was pointed out before- it is the least qualified of the population that goes and works for the government (mainly because they failed to get a private sector job and public work was their fallback [read: only] option) public employees realistically should make about 2/3 what private sector workers do in salary to make up for the better benefits and job security they have. just wait if this downturn lasts another few years it'll break the back of the private sector paying for this- as it already is in many states.
  5. let's see here, you forgot to include paid vacations and pensions.

    and where do you get this idea that health benefits are $500 per month? that's laughable. it's $1500 per month for someone age 40 with a spouse and 2 kids. that goes up exponentially as he gets older.

    add it all up and $123k is in the ball park.

    government employees are overpaid, and to top it off they're unappreciative like you are. you actually have no idea how much your benefits cost taxpayers.
  6. Its not laughable if you're single, as thats what I pay. I admit I should have included family #'s, but i just put what I knew off the top of my head. I just looked at the blue cross blue shield plan for family as we have open season until the end of today. Its about $1,050 total / month for family, so if you want to, you can add another $6000 there.

    I could crunch the pension #'s, but its going to be another $7-$8000 / year max. Not every federal worker falls under the FERS retirement system. Which is what I have, so I can't calculate that. To top it off, not all people will stay 20 years, while all people do get to keep their 401k.

    So go ahead and add another $15,000 if you want. The average is nowhere near $123k. Just another media lie.

    And paid vacations ? I dont count that as federal workers can't get disability pay or maternity leave or anything of that nature. You need to burn your sick and annual leave, or you go on unpaid leave. So you should hoard both sick and annual leave in case something happens. Besides, everyone gets vacation time.

    I supplement my income through daytrading, so really I could careless if our cost of living raise is frozen for 2 years, or if you all are offended by our pay. I expect to make more daytrading this year than working for the gummit. Be jealous, I dont care. thats life, its unfair. Get over it. You want fair ? Be a socialist. I Just dont like the media spreading the lies. There's plenty of studies that show we are infact under paid by 25% compared to private sector.
  7. based on your previous post i think top salary was somewhere around 60k ~ at 33% pension assuming only staying 20 years and leaving that would add an additional 20k / yr from pension alone before adding benefits- now factor in how many people work longer (because most people don't retire at 43 assuming you start your government work after 5 yrs of school) and the average pension is likely closer to 50% of earnings- or adding 30k to the 60k earlier mentioned. although this doesn't factor in how long those pensions last, if you retire at 45 after working 20 years you'll receive your pension for 30 years (assuming live to 75) so that 33% is really more the equivalent of a 50% pension because you receive it longer than you worked- working for 37 years (or until you are 60) and then retiring with a 50% pension you only really receive for 25 years is closer to a 67% pension. so we'll lowball and say 50%+ to your salary is a fair calculation of pension compensation.

    that makes 90k / yr in salary / pension only-

    now factor in the 20k worth of healthcare expenses, and oh yeah you get healthcare coverage when you retire too don't you? so we'll add another at least 10k to that for that. now we'll add in 401k matching and you get another 3k- that brings us all the way to 123k and that is for a NON-supervisory position. amazing how your claim of lies falls apart when you use real math. don't worry i understand why you couldn't do it right yourself- i mean you are a government employee, probably graduated in the bottom third of your class didn't you?
  8. No wrong. Flawed assumptions completely.
    Listen. Pension, this is how it works. We contribute about 1%, or 1/14 of what the gov't contributes. They contribute 13/14's. This means our benefit at that time is close to about 14% added to base salary. $58k + 14% = around $8,000 (off the top of my head).

    I am calculating the value of the pension at this point in time. Not 20 years from now. 20 years from now, that $8k will be worth $20k, get it ? Thats like someone asking me how much a CD I have is worth in the bank. If I originally put in $10k, but I tell the person its worth $11k, thats false, although in 2 years time, that statement will be true.

    So our benefits are not worth $20 or $30k now. they are worth $8,000. Our benefit in the future might be worth that, but with inflation, it will stay around that $8k level.

    Oh, like I said before, maximum pension is 50% of salary. And you are correct, most obviously dont retire at 43. And I already added in 401k.

    I'm not lying. in fact, I think I laid the facts out there pretty well.

    Oh, and we do not qualify for social security, just an FYI. not like we'll get it anyway when i retire, lol.
  9. Look, Sparky, if you want to talk averages then let's talk about the non-blue collar jobs that the government provides in addition to the bottom feeders who work for the Bureau of Prisons.

    Here's the link to all base pay as of Jan. 2010:


    Interesting that the minimum salary for senor level and scientific/professional position is $119K and the maximum is $179K.

    And, that's just base pay...

    As for your rant about sick leave and vacation, here's the link to the government's leave program:


    Bottom line is that government employees are guaranteed the same FMLA as the private sector when it comes to maternity leave.

    But, what you've conveniently left out is that government employees are able to accrue massive amounts of sick leave an vacation while most of us in the private sector have fairly draconian caps, which in most cases means we will never be able to accrue more than an extra month of vacation or sick time, ever.
  10. you are dancing around the reality that gov't workers are overpaid by harping upon an incorrect salary number.

    "By comparison, the New York City police commissioner, Raymond W. Kelly, makes $189,700, and average annual pay for city police officers ranges from $43,062 for a cadet entering the academy to $90,829 for an officer with five and a half years on the job, including overtime and other earnings, according to Paul J. Browne, the department’s chief spokesman. In New York City, salaries for captains start at $108,342, and grow after four years to $135,524.

    "Federal employees are also earning higher wages and benefits than private sector workers do. The average federal worker now earns $71,206, compared with $40,331 in the private sector, according to an analysis by USA Today. "Federal employees making salaries of $100,000 or more jumped from 14 percent to 19 percent of civil servants during the recession's first 18 months," the paper reports -- and that's before overtime pay and bonuses are counted."
  11. 1) if you click the FMLA link, they get sick leave up to 12 weeks, but its unpaid (like I said in my first post).

    2) The massive sick leave we acrue, like I mentioned is needed. If I ge any sort of injury on the job, we need to burn sick time as thats all we get. I've already gotten injured on the job (fighting with inmates ) and I've had to burn up all my sick leave. I've been here for 2 years now. Thats a total of 26 days of sick time. So don't preaching to me about all this sick time that we conveniently get to acrue..

    And like I said before, we don't get disability. So when you go in for that operation that leaves you home for 3 months, you're getting disability. I have to burn the sick time. And if I dont have it acrued i'm shit out of luck.

    3) People that make $150k + accounts for only 2.8% of the total gov't workers, so dont' start with high salaries. There's always going to be outliers.
  12. and since they dont work to maximize profits, it takes 3 government employees to do the job of 1 private sector employee. I dont need any study to tell me that there are huge inefficiencies in goverment work , resulting in less work for more tax payer money.....

    Just the other day I saw 4 city employees digging one hole for like 5 hours.....that would never happen if one would be trying to maximize profits..those cats would be fired on the spot...

    it is not so much that they are overpaid for comparable private sector jobs, it's that they DONT maximize their work knowing very well it's hard to get fired...so in essence they are GROSSLY overpaid...
  13. the majority of government employees, YOU KNOW WHO THEY ARE...wouldnt last one day in a comparable private sector job. Unless of course they double their output...
  14. Excuse me, but the FMLA is upaid for everyone. It's a backstop for those who don't get paid maternity leave, which is just about everyone outside of the boardroom these days.


    FERS Disability Insurance For Government Workers
  15. If we were to privatize the Government they would have to fire like 80% of the employees in order to turn a profit... :D

    seriously wiseman...who you trying to fool meng. The govermment is the most inefficient overlapping corporation we have...
  16. Next you can address how (1) most Fed employees are practically impossible to fire. How do you price-in bulletproof job security (pay/benefits + a short working career + nice retirement)? Don't say this doesn't happen. I've seen worthless civil service employees that we were told "couldn't be fired" when I was in the military. Lots, in fact.

    (2) How some Fed agencies do practically no work and still enjoy this. I have a Fed employee friend who is lucky to get 1-2 hours of actual work each day (which includes meetings and teleconferences in which nothing gets done). He says that describes his whole dep't and some leave at noon each day, even though they aren't supposed to. From what I've seen and heard, most Fed agencies have a small harder-working "core" who get things done and lots of admin and even managers who did little to nothing all day but suck taxpayer dollars.

    BTW, most Fed employees aren't L/E types who put their lives on the line. Your talk of life expectancy, etc. hardly applies to Fed employees on the whole.
  17. You will want to give up on this argument, but be willing to boost your union dues as they will need higher qualified, knowledgeable attorneys and lobbyists in the future. I'm in public safety in a rural Florida county and the tide has clearly turned against us. I've been on the job 25 years, was looking to get roughly 70 to 75% of my base pay for retirement after 35 years but after cuts in 2008 it's now 50% of base pay (unless Gov Rick Scott cuts more, which is probable).

    I pay close to 8% of my salary for this benefit so it's not a total gimme, but I recognize the rest of the payment was/is on the backs of taxpayers. If my pension was anything like the State high risk/public safety plan currently I'd love it. Those employees pay nothing in and get 3% of pay for each year of service. As I said I'm paying close to 8% for 2% of base pay for each year of service, and my salary is based on rural FL law enforcement so about 17% less than Orlando officers and about 23% less than South Florida agencies. And way less than CA, NY, NJ, etc...

    What's funny is you are correct on many points and the Tea partiers are also correct on many points. The problem is the over generalization of the government employee benefit/pay situation. We're all painted with the same broad brush as having lavish benefits and decisions to cut are being made with the same broad brush.

    Should the dedicated 45 year old cop/firefighter that's been on the job and promised a secure pension for years get the same pension benefit cuts as the 20 year olds coming on? In my City, the leaders said yes. So even though the magic of compounding earnings has passed me by, I'm supposed to make up the difference between 45 YOA and 55 YOA; it can't happen. How about something more reasonable like those vested in the plan 10 years or more stay on the current plan. Those coming on board now have a new defined contribution plan instead of defined benefit. But no, it's easier (and cheaper) to throw the baby out with the bath water. Done with my rant. :eek: :confused:
  18. I can't argue with you on this point :D
  19. Ok, at least you're very honest. :D

    And the previous poster was honest, too. In a perfect word, someone would objectively analyze every Fed position (with no union interference) and determine which ones should have the salary (or even position) cut. I'll be the first to say that some Fed employees (as well as state/local/military/etc.) earn every bit of their pay. But unfortunately there are a lot of freeloaders (as well as unnecessary positions), and we're going to have to start cutting somewhere...

    This reminds me of something I heard about the military receiving a 1.4% pay raise on the radio last night. Some retired officer was saying you can't compare the military to the private sector or other Fed employees due to their work. He used exterme examples of the most dangerous duty in combat zones. But what about the majority of troops who are in the U.S., Germany, Japan, etc.? He failed to justify why they get a pay increase while almost everyone else has to live on less these days...
  20. The <i>assistant fire chief</i> in my small town is paid more than $200k/year. I, and my fellow taxpayers, only <i>wish</i> he would go "seek more income in the private sector"...
  21. The vast majority of upper-mid level to lower level employees in the government sector are radically overpaid relative to the private sector. People in government do not seem to grasp that private sector employment is dying and real wages have been falling for a long time. The construction bubble hid this fact as the real estate sector created allot of high paying, bubble Dependant middle class jobs.

    If you think a middle class government employee is getting a raw deal, you have NO IDEA what it is currently like for middle class private sector family.

    The highest level government worker is underpaid, as the same person could often be a partner in a law firm, investment bank, etc.
    But even here, government employment is just an investment for when they return/transfer to the private sector. With all those new "connections" they can then go to an investment bank or law firm and REALLY pilfer wealth from the taxpayers.
  22. "Just an investment..." is an important point. But at least equally important is that high-level Federal employees, particularly Democrats, gain a lot of value / compensation from the ability to control other people's lives. That's how they get their jollies. At the Ivy League universities, they come to believe they're very very special, and that the US would be a better place if only they had the power to run the poor benighted flyover people's lives for them.
  23. It is time to get real. The post office and similar departments are job creation schemes for middle class people who have near ZERO opportunity cost vs. the private sector.

    Here in Chicago I see "diverse" individuals driving Mercedes, BMW, lexus, etc pulling out of the post office headquarters (It is near the grocery store i go to). Do you REALLY think they would have a chance in hell of maintaining their lifestyle in the private sector?

    The middle class lifestyle in the private sector is being killed by the cost of living arbitrage on one hand and bubble economy (home prices, medical care, education) on the other.
  24. That is a very good point. For the elite it is about power and ruling the little people's lives.

    Apparently they do not let people from rural flyover country into the Ivy league anymore. They are not wanted.

    Have you seen the study where when SAT scores are controlled for, any signifier of a "rural" background (such as 4h club participation) is the single greatest hurdle to Elite school admissions? It is true. Harvard hates the "old" America.
  25. Watch out if we ever get a true fiscal conservative government.
    They'll be hell to pay...
  26. If you're getting such a raw deal in your govt job, then why not go to the private sector? Oh, right.... they wont let you daytrade while you're on the clock. :D

  27. For the parasites....
  28. You guys do half the work...so that would still leave you as overpaid. Like you said life isn't fair and more power to all government employees who game the system.
  29. Yes, assuming you're referencing the work of Thomas Espenshade http://www.princeton.edu/~tje/ and his collaborators.
  30. Wiesman, I need to explain the root of the increasingly sharp animosity/hostility you're feeling from people in the private sector:

    As a fed-joint corrections officer, you are keeping dangerous perverts, murderers and other scum away from society where they belong. Not only that, but you are doing it at a steep price to your own mental health: I strongly believe that working in a prison is 'mind-poison', as you can't help but absorb some of the negative energy/karma that surrounds you there every day. (And I speak from experience on that one.)

    So why would a guy like me instinctively see you as an <b>enemy</b> instead of a friend, when you say you work in federal law enforcement? (To be even more precise, I actually see you as a gang member in the largest criminal street gang in the world... The U.S. federal government.) <b>Drug prohibition and the 500,000 'drug-criminal' political prisoners</b> are the main reason, even though I know you didn't write the laws- you merely enforce them. I'm assuming (because you said the inmates physically fought with you) that you <b>don't</b> work in an FPC (minimum security joint) where an overwhelming segment of the inmate population is comprised of harmless people who don't belong in the system to begin with. But still... would I be wrong to assume that many of the inmates that you help to keep away from their families are harmless prohibition violators who really don't need to be locked up in the first place?

    So why else would I see the feds as an enemy and an opposing force to the people's best interests? Because we are forced to pay you constant 'tributes' in the form of high taxes. My total tax bill (Federal, state, property, sales taxes, etc.) is greater than all of my other living expenses put together, and the same can be said for many people. Plus it seems like every year now, the feds find some new way to take away some of my freedoms. Prop trading firms are increasingly regulated/restricted, and I feel the various negative effects directly. I can no longer get my clove cigarettes that I like so much because the feds completely banned them two years ago. Online poker isn't nearly as lucrative as it could be for a skilled player, just because the feds keep messing with it and driving away the fish/casual players by making it so difficult for anyone to deposit money with a poker site. The economic damage wrought upon all of us from the lack of a sound monetary system (bullion backed instead of fiat) is another issue. And now dehumanizing naked body scanners?! I could go on all day with this...

    I know these god-awful federal government policies didn't come from <i>you</i> specifically, at all... but you are still a cog in that giant oppressive machine, and for that I view you as someone 'on the other side' ... an enemy. Do you see what anti-liberty politicians are doing to this country? Politicians and lawyers are ruining this nation, and it really doesn't have to be that way. I just want you to see that.

    "When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."
    ~Thomas Jefferson

    Please look at this poll: http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2943680

    The people are <b>terrified</b> of you feds! This really isn't good at all...
  31. OMG that was a funny post.

    Your first paragraph makes it seem you will be addressing the general grievances that most people have with the government, yet you include a list of incredibly specific, personal gripes:

    -The ban on clove cigarettes that prevents you from having your favorite smoke.
    -Drug prohibition (yes, a larger problem yet for the majority still a specific gripe) that prevents a small fraction of the population from self-medicating (An alien concept to most people).
    -Government policies that keep the "fish" out of online poker rooms
    -Lack of gold bullion as money

    I am not saying I don't agree with you, I do. ...Yet somehow the juxtaposition of your stated purpose with your specific issues made me laugh out loud.

  32. I'm sure other people have their own pet peeves on how the feds have messed with <i>their</i> freedoms... I'm just providing my own specific personal examples. Feel free to provide your own...
  33. Interesting that you quoted Jefferson.

    His greatest regret was not begin able to get an amendment passed prohibiting the government from borrowing money to fund their operations.

    That's the key weakness that's let us get to where we are today.
  34. Even if Jefferson had succeeded in this, likely that Woodrow Wilson or Teddy Roosevelt would have overturned it...
  35. The President has absolutely nothing to do with the process of amending the Constitution.
  36. Strictly speaking yes, of course.

    But somewhere along the way, The Constitution ceased to mean what was intended. Woodrow Wilson gave us the Fed... that seems a good place to mark the beginning of the downfall of the Republic.
  37. I will take u up on that Mr. Reardon.

    -I hate how big government has led to the pussification of society on almost every level.

    -The security state. We are supposedly fighting "them" yet the government is turning inwards and directing its focus on, "us". I hate to see Americans cowered in line at the Airport, people humiliated, etc.

    -I am concerned about the future of genuine free speech. Hate crime laws mean the elite will define what is "hate".

    -It bothers me that every time I get into a modern car, it starts beeping at me to put my seatbelt on (I might be driving 2 bocks at 12mph). It is like having a government bureaucrat over your shoulder back seat driving.

    -I hate the PC that drives the, "truths we can't say". For example the population that commits most all the gun violence is small and easily defined, yet they pretend it is a general problem and pass laws to regulate all gun owners.

    -Health is 95% a healthy lifestyle, diet, and genetics. Yet, we cower in fear about, "access to healthcare." Folks, we are all going to die. Our forefathers risked their lives just to step foot on this continent. They tamed a wilderness and built a civilization. Yet all to many modern men go around with a fanny pack on, wimpering about healthcare!

    -Folks, when I was a kid we still played with .22's M-80's. We rode bikes with no (Gasp!) helmets, and this was not all that long ago.

    One thing I used to read and question was the notion some of our founding father had: A free nation "requires a people capable of self-governance." More and more I question if perhaps that is the real problem: The majority of Americans are now incapable (perhaps in terms of genuine aptitude) of self-governance.

    There is a smaller percent that merely desires to live free and is willing to assume risk. We were once a majority, but now we are the minority, and that is why we have the State that we do.
  38. Public schools as well. We have two options: Get the feds completely out of them and return all power to TAXPAYING citizens/property owners, or just shut them down completely. Those are the only valid reform options.
  39. What you're overlooking is a government unable to borrow money would never have attracted Wilson and his kind in the first place.

    They were a result, not the cause.
  40. +1
    Great post!
  41. Whoa! That's a stretch.

    Besides, the principle of "vote for me and I'll give you something you want".. borrowed funding or no... always has had a following.
  42. Jeez, that's the whole point!

    In a government that can't borrow money they have nothing to give.
  43. great post.. I remember as a kid riding bike throwing an M-80 into a parking garage in coconut grove....oh boy, think of the BOOM magnified a 1000 fold.. the city would shut down for a week and 5 miles would be cornered off if this happened now...:D
  44. Even the harmful prohibition violators, such as the crackheads who robs a convenience store, would not be engaged in such nefarious activity were they not paying egregiously inflated black market prices for drugs which can be produced very cheaply. If that $10 rock were 10 cents, which it would be in a market where it weren't illegal or overly regulated, the addicts could peacefully kill themselves all day - the majority of burglaries and home invasions come from drug addicts trying to get their fix.

    Then you have all the drug-related murders, turf wars...
  45. now imagine the money saved on drug wars and incarceration being used to teach/rehabs...
  46. Look guys, the United States of America is toast. Might as well give me money whle its still around :)

    I don't disagree that the fed is evil and they're doing a lot of sht I don't agree with. ANd I don't plan on working here forever.

    Truthfully, in 2011 I expect to earn more daytrading than working. While the pension and benefits is nice, I expec to be gone for good in less than 5 years and trading on my own. . And I'm not doing it with less than a million in the bank. Maybe i'm living in fantasy land, but thats my goal.

    So u can bash me all u want. I'm done with this discussion.
  47. Yeah baby, that's how I like it! Let the feds hang their heads in shame wherever they go. Demoralize them at every opportunity, and divide and conquer! Make as many as possible defect back to the people. The weaker the enemy, the freer the people!
  48. I wanted to say that most of the federal employees I've encountered over the years seemed to be highly competent, with the exception, naturally, of the folks in the New Orleans immigration office. But then I thought about all those folks at the airports x-raying dicks, and strip searching teenagers with backpacks and pierced eyebrows, and I had to reconsider-- they are federal employee aren't they? I suppose, in fairness, that even if I was poorly educated and not very bright, i'd still expect to be well-compensated if you wanted me to empty hand bags, steal Swiss Army knives, and look at dick xrays every day, all damn day long.