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Every forex broker is evil?!

  1. Hi. I'm just new to (cash) Forex trading.
    After some information gathering, I have a feeling every forex broker is evil since we have conflicting interests. They trade against us. They wish us to lose. They make many fabrications in order to deceive you, and so on.

    Now I'm going to list all the reasons why the claim is valid.

    False Advertising & Fabrications

    - "No commissions" is plainly deceiving
    Brokers deceive you about there being no commissions. $30 minimum/round turn (called the spread) is in reality a commission that eats up your capital at an astonishing rate. Even winning traders lose money and end up with negative results because of this outlandish overhead. Trading futures, you should never have to pay a broker more than $10/round turn, and usually quite a bit less than that.

    - The truth about guaranteed fills
    True but¡K The only way a broker can guarantee fills is for the broker to become the buyer or seller of last resort. That means the broker is running a bucket shop. All forex brokers are the buyer and seller of last resort.

    - Lying about the volume
    Brokers do not tell the truth about volume. They show the volume for all forex trading, which doesn't even come close to the volume they truly have at their own brokerage, which is where you are trading. Volume in currency futures is considerably higher than the volume traded at any single forex broker, often greater by a factor of ten.

    Defraud of your money

    - Leaning
    Brokers say they are charging you a 3 pip spread to trade the popular currency pairs. But in reality a broker may be making as much or more than 10 pips on your trades. He does this by skewing prices. Since you are not trading at an exchange, the broker can feed you any price he wants to feed you. He can buy at the bank for perhaps 7 pips less than he sells to you. He then charges you 3 pips for the privilege of being ripped off for a total of 10 pips.

    - Skewing price quotation
    What is the true price? A forex broker can only give you the price of a currency as quoted to him by the bank through which he trades. Banks have differing prices for a currency. You never know what the real price is because there is no central exchange through which all prices flow. Besides not knowing the true price from the bank, you can also be deceived by "leaning" or "skewing" of the real price at the bank. Forex brokers commonly lean the prices.

    - Immoral Stop Running/Hunting
    You are told by forex brokers that there is little or no stop running. This is one of their biggest and boldest fabrications. The truth is there is far more stop running in forex than in futures, and possibly as much stop running as in the stock market. I have friends who work in forex as well as many traders who of necessity have to trade forex. One of my students is a market maker in forex. These are people who should know, but in case you don't want to believe me or them, simple observation of forex trading will reveal the vast amount of stop running that takes place there. Who is it that runs the stops? Why it is your friendly forex broker. The broker has a vested interest in seeing to it that your orders are filled. Stop running is nothing more than order filling. The broker sees to it that everybody's order gets filled.

    - Wipe you out by "false" spike
    Sometimes, there's very quick spike in candlestick on a broker's chart, but there is nothing happening on the others' chart. A stop-loss is triggered simply due to that suspicious spike.

    - ban you if you can win their money
    Probably you have heard that if you are winning regularly in forex, you may be barred from trading. Is this true? Yes it is. The fact that it is true is just another proof that when you trade forex you are trading at a bucket shop. In the book, "Reminiscences of a Stock Operator," we are told that Jesse Livermore was banned from trading at certain stock brokers because they couldn't stand him beating the house. The same thing is true with many forex brokers. Since they are the ones guaranteeing you a fill, they are in effect the buyer and seller of last resort. The truth is that most forex brokers have precious little liquidity at their firms. In order to give you the impression that there is liquidity, it is the broker who gives you your fill. It is the broker who does the stop running that supposedly doesn't exist in forex. But if you are regularly beating the socks off the broker, he will ban you from trading at his firm.

    Potential Danger about Forex Brokerage Firms

    - Unregulated
    Forex may sound like an exchange but it isn't. It exists entirely in cyberspace with every broker and every bank having different prices for any particular currency. There is little or no regulation, even for brokers who register with the CFTC and the NFA. Forex brokers do not have to mark to market each day as do futures brokers. If your forex broker files for bankruptcy or absconds with your money you have zero recourse.

    - No guarantee
    If a forex broker does go out of business, you could lose all your money. There are no guarantees and no one standing behind it. Futures brokers are required to mark to market at the end of every session every day. They have to put up cash to cover every open trade on their books. Futures brokers have gone broke, but no futures customer has ever lost one cent of the money in his trading account because of a failed broker. Nor have they had to wait for their money. It is immediately available.

    Forex futures is a wise choice

    You can get exactly the same action in the Euro forex futures as you get in the "Euro" cash forex. Commissions are as low as one tenth per round turn depending on volume, through a regulated broker, trading electronically at an exchange where you know the true price of the currency. All the problems/risks above don't exist in forex futures.

    But when to trade cash forex?

    We do not advocate forex trading unless you have a particular reason:

    Special needs on time
    You may wish to trade forex if, for some reasons, you need to trade during the middle of the night (U.S. Central Time), but if you are able to trade during U.S. market hours (7:20am-2:00pm U.S. Central Time) you are much better off trading currencies in the Chicago currency futures markets.

    Special needs on currency pairs
    You need trade cash forex if you have a specific need to trade in currency pairs that do not involve the U.S. dollar.

    Another reason is liquidity of some thinly-traded U.S. dollor currency pairs. While it is true that total cash forex volume is greater than in the futures, futures' volume at the exchange is greater than the volume at your broker for the most popularly traded currencies. The only place where the liquidity differential matters is in currencies like the Mexican peso, the Brazilian real, and somebody's drachma. Those thinly traded currencies may be more liquid in forex. But if you trade anything but the few most liquid and popular currencies, you are going to be paying at least 5 pips, and often more. Unless you have a particular commercial need to deal in Polish zlotys, Indian rupees, or some other thinly traded currency, you don't need forex.

    Why not to trade (cash) forex?

    Blatant Stop Running by Fx Solutions

    The truth about FXCM
  2. If you have any idea or comment, please feel free to leave your message. :D
  3. All lies.

    Another MoneyTec slimeball spammer.

  4. i don't know about you man but im making damn good money trading forex yes some broker do the thing you say thats why you have to pick a broker who is a little honest.
  5. First all the information above is not from me, but rather from the reference sector. Personally I add nothing but organization.

    Second I post this because I'm in doubt whether the above claims are true, so do the complaints. They sound like real.

    As I mentioned in my first post, I'm new to (spot) forex trading, I need some advice from others.
  6. Dear Exchanges,
    All lies?!
    What a hasty conclusion.
    One misinformation does not falsify all of them. :p
    I think you should re-examine your comments, or I'm very glad to prove there MUST be at least one which is correct. :D
  7. no but there's more than 'one' misinformation / misinformed generalization in your laundry list pal, and there is already more than enough of that sort of generic bullshit flying around to try and scare people off this or that... honestly if you can be scared so easily by such stuff, might as well stay away from the markets, regulated or not... having said that, it shld be pretty obvious that regulated markets offer more security... only problem is, at true beginner level, its far easier to trade spot fx than CME eFX futures... and dont ask why, just try live trading both and come back to the board to report... have fun!
  8. its plain and clear if you believe in what you say then don't trade forex period. don't try to scare the rest of us because im doing good trading forex and wouldn't trade nothing else.
  9. I have made more money in Forex than I have in the regulated markets of Equities, Options and Futures combined...

    Currencies and their associated volumes make them the best instruments to trade on earth IMHO...

    but our thread authors post is still true....I just was extremely fortunate to find the right dealer/marketmaker from the get-go. This usually is not true for my other choices in life.

    life is pain, can you handle the truth? (said in Jack Nicholsons voice)

    Michael B.
  10. It all gets tired after a while. I was one of the first, maybe even the first, to start calling forex brokers bucketshops- here and on trade2win- over 2 years ago. And did some posts comparing futures with forex, recommending most traders go with futures. And I blew up FXCM several times for putting me on manual excution.

    But I still trade forex (plus futures). The brokers have improved alot, the spreads are tighter and IMO most newbies are better off in forex and trading mini accounts than risking bigger amounts. Getting obessed about relatively small pip savings is actually obscuring the fact that most traders lose even if the spread and commission were zero. If you are worried about 'stop hunting' then do what I do and open an account with two brokers(I have 5). Then you can enter a trade at one and put your stop in on the other (if you are really paranoid). Personally I have found that unneccesary over the last 6 months.

    BTW, my poker account is pretty large and I pay hundreds of dollars a month in 'commission' to partypoker (who are barely legal and are stationed 'offshore').
  11. Sorry, but the information above is not said by me. I thought I have made this clear.
    I'm just a newbie. How come I could know so many things and make such big claims?
    The informaton above is just from others which can be found from the reference sector. I do nothing but just some organizations & then copy & paste.

    Now here's the question:
    - you says some of them are misleading or simply wrong. Then which ones? Why? I would like to hear more from both sides.
  12. You are better off in retail spot pretty much only if your account is small and you will last longer trading very small lots while you learn. Otherwise, you trade the cme futures.
  13. Thanks for your comment.

    Strictly speaking, as long as not all statements are misinformation, you couldn't say all are wrong/lies. for exmaple, even if you get 99 out of 100 answers wrong, you coudn't say you have answered all questions wrongly. I think that's just simple logic. Anyway, I know people are casual when making their comments.

    Funny enough, there's once an experiment which poeple are asked to read a material which contains most valuable information but mixed with a few "biggest & obvious" bullshxt! Most people commented it as "valueless / all bullshxt / rubbish". Only some managed to comment "most are correct but have made a few biggest msitakes". But no one commented it is "valuable / all truth / all correct". What does thee result tell? Are humans hard to please, or are humans subjective in nature? :cool:

    Anyway, back to the topic, I'm not scared, or I just hide inside the bed & won't be here. ;D

    I would like to hear both parties. That's why I post this infomration out and know which ones are wrong (as a reminder, this information is NOT said by me, it IS FROM THE REFERENCE SECTOR. Nearly all information is derived from a seemingly expert, Joss Roe. Hope you make this clear now!).

    Simply saying "wrong / all lies" doesn't help, it's not the purpose of this thread. It would be great if you don't mind to pinpoint which ones are false as I would like to hear more from both parties.
  14. honestly, not so clear... its actually more natural to move from retail spot single broker/dealer platform, to ECN-type or true ECN... then if you have come to a stage where you trade rather large size (>20mio clips in fast markets, or >100mio in normal conditions) you'll find that liquidity & spread terms are far superior on the ECNs than on CME... of course the guys who've been trading futures for years and are coming to the forex find it way more sensible / secure to do it via CME eFX, and thats totally understandable... a regulated market such as CME has safeguards and guaranties that an ECN can't provide, there is always a trade-off...
  15. although i can see the logic in this statement, i cant agree.

    if a newbie trader is starting out, he wants every edge he can get. putting himself against the tide by trading at a bucket shop is more likely to make him go bust than trading a at regulated even playing field (futures). if he doesnt have the cash to trade futures, he should either:

    position trade stocks

    wait until he does - meanwhile continuing to build skills paper trading.

    whats the big deal with fx anyway?

    a good trader should be able to make money in most markets. you cant tell me that out of say 3000 liquid stocks these isnt one there making better moves tan say the 5-10 fx pairs.

    wmwaster - good post. i agree with all your points. unfortunately few here will take heed of your warning, as they are emotionally attached to the fx market. i have the odd feeling that this is ego driven - they think they have made it because they believe they are trading against the banks/'pro's' etc. they cant admit they are really trading against some shyster in some grubby boiler room in detroit. in fact, as you imply, they arent really trading any market! they are just trading against some quote maker that sometimes loosely gives quotes that may sometimes represent that of the true spot market.
  16. If you feel so dissatisfied with the bucketshop model then trade with an ECN model broker like Interactive Brokers.

    But lets be realistic - success or failure in forex, as in futures, will have much more to do with your edge and your discipline than anything that a broker does. Its just noise; irritating but still just noise. Like the thread :)
  17. Ok fine, I made that statement with a certain audience in mind (individuals who have around 5K or so to "try out forex") -- that is, the concerned readers of this thread :). It was the one and ONLY reason I could think of to concede to using an fx broker. But let me clarify the stance I've always held.

    Agreed, one should avoid retail fx like the plague; agreed, futures are really the only way to go for the typical individual trader -- there is no reason a successful individual fx trader would not migrate over to cme futures eventually, so you may as well learn to deal with that environment from the start; agreed, if you manage to "outgrow" cme and are going to swing 8-9 figure blocks then you would go back to spot and deal directly with institutional market makers (I'll let everyone know when I get there ha ha ha).

    And agreed :)
  18. lol - good points.

    to be truthful, id be interested in knowing where i can find out about these ecns.

    the only ones i am familiar with are the interbank ones - ebs, reuters, autobahn (deutschebank). i hear of these things like hotspot and lava but am a bit suspicious - the banks arent there, so will there be any real liquidity? who is making the liquidity?
  19. Try this post: http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=65449&perpage=6&pagenumber=1

    Good Hotspot post: http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=65847&perpage=6&pagenumber=1

    Taboni, 2cents, Lon Eagle, and others have posted a lot of great information in this area.
  20. Somewhat true.
    However if the brokers are against you, you are at a disadvantage and are more likely to lose.

    I don't know if they lie, but some did report there's a spike on their chart to rid their stop orders (while the spike just simply doesn't exist in other brokers).

    Also when the price gathers strong momentum, they wish to enter the trades, but the panel freezes and have to wait for, say, 30 seconds to know if their trades are executed. It's suspected that the broker waits and sees if the trade is against them. If so, the trade will not be executed. Otherwise they will execute it.

    Afer all, the above is not experienced by me, just others experiences. It may be true or false.
  21. I don't know if brokers trade against you, want you to lose, want to hit your stop etc..... but I can tell you one thing I have watched in real time charts from my broker and other forex brokers and the result is simple : all my winning trades would have been winning trades on other brokers charts and all my losing and stopped trades would have been stopped on other broker's charts too, the conclusion is simple :
    when you are right you make money when you are wrong you lose money, don't blame your broker, when you buy in an uptrend the broker will not teverse the trend to make you lose your money.....if you don't belive me display charts from 2 different suppliers and you will see that the difference is very small (less than 5 points and most of the time 0,1or 2 points) that mean that they if you have a stop of 25 /30 pips your loss is only due to you , not to this little diffrences of quoting....)
  22. Hi guys,

    WM, I agree with you. But its not really to the horrifying extent it sounds like.

    The broker can only spike the price a very small ammount. There is governing bodies and recorse if the broker is fraudulant.

    Make sure your broker is a registered Futures Commission Merchant (FCM), a member of the National Futures Association (NFA) and is regulated by the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC)

    So what broker do you recomend?


  23. Also ask those governing bodies what exact recourse you will have !! For example, SAXO is claiming it is regulated by Danish FSA, and do you know what that means? Well for me it meant that so called Danish FSA does not investigate consumer complaints, and also it meant that I have to pay all the costs in oder to sue or investigate the very HONEST Danish SAXO Bank !!!!!
  24. I don't know, but it seems the "false" spike is not a small one to take the guy out. (you many find the story from the links in my first post)

    If the story is true, then it should be something we need to be aware. And it seems a good & honest broker is utmost important.
  25. Indeed.

    I will not bank outside the country. I will not trust another contries government to protect me. I don't know how that applies if you live in another country. I live in USA.
    I would think swiss banks would be for safe trading. They have a world wide reputation for being a safe place for money.
    And if your account size is big enough for it to worrie you, split it between 2 brokers. That way if one goes broke you only loose half your trade account size.

  26. wich broker had this large false spike?

    I am currently surching for a new broker for the past 6 months. I am leaving FXCM(king of the bucket shop)

    I am having a hard time getting comfortable with any out there.
    Leaning hard at CMS. Bout to test interbank groupe. I don't like IBfx just because I want 400:1 leverage.
    I have heard honerable things about CMS durring high volitity.

  27. I agree with you and I still dont know how I ended up with bloody Saxo and in Denmark !!! I mean I thought FSA in UK and FSA in Denmark would be the same but obviously I was wrong.

    I think Danish FSA is only symbolic and regulates only in theory. Interestingly SAXO states everywhere that it is regulated by FSA but when the complaint is initiated the story changes and you need to take your complaint to www.pengeinstitutankenaevnet.dk

    First I need to translate that !!! Anyway, I am gonna fight them till last blood, at least it will harm their reputation !!!
  28. Damn, Sav, you sound almost intelligent!

    Could it be...?

    *shakes head* nah.

  29. Build SKILLS paper trading???

    According to Illiquid, simulator trading is 100% waste of time, so you're posting your fact to the wrong guy.

    Never a more false statement has been made about forex.

    (no disrespect intended, Fred.)

  30. True.

    I've heard of guys cussing forex brokers out (due to their losses) because the broker's trading platform happens to freeze for a moment or goes offline temporarily.

    Some guys blame the forex trader because their system cannot handle even a short-term stint away from the market!

    If one loses due to brief digital/electronic maladies, the broker's not the problem.

    If you can't win against a scummy forex broker, the broker is not the problem.

    A broker would need to literally close my account to prevent me from winning.

    That did happen one time in a global currency trading contest I entered where I turned (the initial) $5,000 into over $2,250,000 (and counting) in two weeks (over 45,000% profit).

    Broker shut my account down a week before the contest ended.

  31. Yea sure the brokers are so innocent, but traders are bad. Why on earth do traders blame brokers I dont know, it would be so better for brokers if traders would fall for their cheap crap and say I am sorry broker you are cool and honest keep the money!!!
  32. Exactly!

    Forex traders are all trading the same global Interbank market quotes at the same time.

    No bank, market maker or broker on the face of the earth would DARE try to manipulate a trend or falsify a fluctuating rate.

    If they did, they'd subject themselves to getting vaporized in the open forex market.

    That ain't worth it, to mess with any one particular currency trader.

    Possible exception (in my experience): When a broker is making the quote up themselves by hand-dealing the rate to a particular trader.

    In this case, and it would need to be an exotic pair, a broker may be able to 'pad' the quote or quote whatever they want (within toleration) due to the spread, due to the pair being less liquid than a major, being excessive. Because no one on the retail side would necessarily know what the Interbank actually dealt that broker at a specific time.

    But that would need to be with a broker who handles most trades in a non-automatic environment, that is, when the broker deals each trade by hand in their back office (requotes and excessive processing time are telltale signs of this).

    My forex broker is all automated. No hand dealing/quoting happens.

    The rest is all paranoia of losing "traders" trying to justify their lousy trading systems.


  33. My point is exactly that, SAXO bank can quote individually to traders. Seriously, I just wont accept that each time I enter trade spreads widen and soon as I close the trade everything is back to normal. Not to forget that SAXO is not an ECN like Curenex,IB, Hotspot etc.
  34. I trade CME FX Futres, with no bad fills you can trade the offer and bid, cut out the 1 pip spread...............Out of intrest does anyone trade FX with IB and if so what are the fills like and the spread on the EUR/USD.
  35. if you trade with the dealers--- here are 2 rules i follow:

    1. never ever ever use hard stops. i have learned that your stops will likely be hit if placed on dealers platform.

    2. watch depth of 4-6 different brokers at same time to gain edge and to see where your dealer fits into the scheme of things. is your dealer a "follower" or a "leader"?

    i think you can understand where i am going with this.......

    yes, money can be made trading with dealers. one just needs to understand how they play the game.


  36. I use cms and they have improved a lot, the charts are great, no problems of order execution, even if the marker jumps of 100 pips against me during annoucements my stop is honoured at the right price (i use 25 pts stop), no slippage, for the moment I don't have to complain, their platform is more reliable than 2 years ago.
    The only problem is the spread of 4 points on gbp , for intraday trading it is a little bit too much, if i want to change that I would move to fx futures with IB: reliable, funds insured by sipc and loyd .....
  37. These 2 companies:

    Blatant Stop Running by Fx Solutions

    The truth about FXCM
  38. ((No bank, market maker or broker on the face of the earth would DARE try to manipulate a trend or falsify a fluctuating rate.

    If they did, they'd subject themselves to getting vaporized in the open forex market.

    That ain't worth it, to mess with any one particular currency trader.))

    This is false. A bucketshop can easily throw a spike in that hits quickly enough to take out stops but isn't tradeable either because of the speed or they could just freeze the platform temporarily.

    ((Possible exception (in my experience): When a broker is making the quote up themselves by hand-dealing the rate to a particular trader.))

    True...another bucketshop trick
  39. I'm not saying every forex broker out there is honest.

    But not every person out there is honest, either.

    Does that mean you should ban the entire human race?

    *thinks that over* ...


    Same with brokers.

    Even if they HAD a dip here and there into your pocket, you're still missing lots of opportunities in the foreign exchange market for exciting trading if you don't trade currencies!

    Plenty of opportunies to get all your money back and much much more.

    Don't sweat the small stuff. :)

  40. But no one says we should ban the entire human race. :D

    The main point is since forex has such-and-such disadvantages, why not pick a better option and trade futures?

    Unless your trading strategy will not work in futures (or some other special needs/reasons), I don't see any good reason why one should insist on trading forex, provided that there're a lot of worries (be it small or big) around.
  41. The fact is that FX is an OTC market, so it lacks the demonstrable order flow that ultra-short term traders need to see in order to get involved. If you scalp FX, you're simply just guessing.

  42. You are very wrong, I have scalped the EUR.USD Futures for a long time and I take 4 pips a trade. its far easier to predict the next 2 to 5 mins then the next 2 to 5 days.

    The ones who say scalping cant be done, is they cant do it them selfs
  43. He needs at least 2k to begin trading a futures account. How's that for special needs? :)
  44. Guys, for the record, then I'm off this thread...

    MOST "traders" (and posters on this thread) couldn't trade their grandma's gas, let alone a serious and extremely liquid market as the foreign exchange.

    Hence, if you're interested in trading currencies, I encourage you to disregard the contrary, naysaying Trembling Lilies posting on this thread, and do your own research/analysis.

    Look at the big picture.

    Most posters' trading counsel on ET and other trading-related message boards is no better than what you'd find in a stale fortune cookie.

    Keep that in mind, and good luck with your decisions.

    It's just a fluctuation,

  45. Wow he's right. In fact, it's damn near impossible to become proficient in fx trading unless you also have a good handle on bonds, equities, metals, oil, commodities etc -- another reason to ditch a pure fx broker for a platform like IB. You're only getting one slice of the pie if all you're staring at are currency pairs -- like the man said, look at the big picture.
  46. Give up? Why?

    The purpose of this post is to point out (immoral) stop hunting (by screwing prices on your data feeds) does exist (which some people think otherwise).

    It helps to remind other traders not to fall into victims of stop hunting.

    I don't see what's wrong in pointing out the dodgy practices of retail forex brokers.

    What's more, I say nothing about whether I have lost money to them, nor I'm grieving.
  47. IF you wanna trade fx via a broker/mm instead of an ecn then deal with it. If you can't see how to benefit from certain brokers manipulating their prices then you really should get out of the game or stick to futures.
  48. sure, i wonder how u gonna manipulate u acct losses when they try to defraud u by addin' trades that never took place'n'even better when u dear bolier goes down under...by da way illuminate us poor incompetent mortal 'bout u transactions'n'how u can outsmart u bucketshop...am dyin' to see some real proof that it is possible to fade thier prices'n'make a livin' on it.
  49. I'll let you figure it out yourself .. if you can.
  50. show us, i mean no big deal innit[?], just post transactions that show u shadin'n'fadin' their prices consistently'n'i'll be happy...
  51. my god. .. think outside the box for just one second. Tell you what ... lemme give you a hint. Let's say you have accounts with 5 brokers ... and then assume that the quotes provided by each are not always in line. Now, if you can't see an arb opportunity there then I;m not gonna waste anymore time here
  52. i know what u meant that's ol' news...prob is that now boilers are in touch with each other'n'fight together just to prevent that kinda activities goin on cuz they were sufferin' huge losses...doubt u can do that consistently anymore, that's why io asked u if u can do it for a livin'.
  53. you bore me ....
  54. 'n'u suck.....big time, u open u mouth'n'a river of liquid shit comes out.
  55. Counter-fraud. :p
  56. I doubt that too.
    They are here to rip you off. That won't be easy.

    Eg: If they try to make false spikes to trigger short position stop losses, you spot the chance and open short position. No, you won't get that chance since they maniuplate quotes on client by client basis.

    They maniuplate prices to kick you out, not give you golden opportunites.

    And someone in this thread says they may ban you if you can arbitrage successfully all the time.
  57. indeed that's what they do...they have they own griffin investigation...they in touch with each other'n'if u get caught u will be booted out'n'won't be able to open an acct with any of 'em anymore.... not that is such a bad thing tho...
  58. absolutely correct ;-) but don't say too much, the more people figure out those 'loopholes', the faster they will disappear...
  59. prob is that u can talk as much as u wish but will never back up what u say.....extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, innit[?]
  60. thats not a claim, just a fact... prob is, you can't live with the idea that some people have figured it out and you haven't... not my problem matey ;-) no incentive in proving anything to u...

  61. it's not a prob of figurin' out nothin, this game is old as me granpa''n'many traders where doin' it, now boilers will widen da spread just before or'n'after da close'n'/or refuse to honor u da settlement price...many of me trades with ig [bucketshop] that were let to expire were close at a price far away from da final print to make sure no arbin' [if taken place] was successful...if u wud be able to do that regualry what's stoppin' u from bettin' 1000lots'n'become a multimillionaire in no time...afterall u make it look so easy, innit[?]
    and ah, yes don't come here'n'tell me u able to do that intraday regulary, easy money is at da close.

  62. haha.. you're quite funny you know that? Now that skalpz has disappeared et has finally found a replacement for traders to quietly laugh it. All you wannabe traders always askign for proof because you just can't figure it out. You're all too 'focused' on trading the only way your simple minds can comprehend, buy low sell high.

    Most hedge funds have been milking the credit derivatives market over the last few years, why? Because new instruments (at that time) like CDSs were difficult to price as there was no definitive way of determining edfs. Obviously there was a simple arb opportunity right there with mispriced CDSs. IF you can't or don't want to figure out where a potential trade exists there then i say again, get out of the game. You want low risk high yield strategies, think about arbs. I know 2cents does smthing similar to myself

    Oh, and btw .... if you want people to take you seriously, stop trying to sound like a gangster trader
  63. Commerical plug:

    "It's ECN-Style, or it's nothing."

    Ok, now back to your regularly scheduled programming.
  64. ok sparkbutt, listen carefully, first keep certain comments for u self, i never came to eat to u house'n'i never invite u to dinner at me place either..second i do not trade shitty fx, i wud never deposit me cash in a place where me money are not insured or secure, that is completely idiotic in itself, of course if u acct is of only a few grand that's another matter but still stupid to put 'em at risk, third u can comment bout me as much as u want that doesnt make u better or prove u profitable; fourth ...what u tryin' to do is takin' advantage of diff prices from diff quotes providers, u want to arb 'em, u lookin' at inconsistencies between 'em,...if u doin' somethin' diff i welcome u explanation. u talked 'bout choosin' a boiler over an ecn model just for that reason alone'n' that suggests u make a livin' just by fadin' those prices; if u doin' that, u can say it, like i can say i find it hard to believe for da simple reason those inconsitencies are harder to find since diff boliers got together'n'tried to match they quotes as much as possible.
    by da way fadin' da settlement was common practice with cfds'n'spreadbettin' brokers'n'believe me they stamped hard on it.

  65. oh yeah ... u da big man. Come back in a few years when your balls have dropped.
  66. y a, that's what i was expectin'; another idiotic comment from u; i never said u were unprofitable or unable to trade, neither have ever dreamt to tell u a wannabe cuz i don't know u...i just questioned da fact u profits were comin' mainly from arbin' quotes'n'da only response [reaction] i got was u sayin 'u bore me' with u dick swingin' near me face...eeewwwhhh

  67. This is in response to WM Waster original post since I just noticed this thread.

    I couldn't agree more than with one exception....

    If you have a good futures broker you can trade overnight currency futures no problem. A few days ago, I stayed up lated and watched the euro make nice moves as the same thing was happening on my Oanda demo account. I actually missed a couple of winning trades because it blew threw my entry, on euro futures.

    I am glad you posted this thread as I believe it helps alot of people. Myself, I don't see a benefit in forex at all because of the already mentioned points WM Waster made.
  68. u r so irrelevant buddy :))
  69. deary me ... even when I bring it down to your level you're not satisfied .... give it up mate .. you're making yourself look like even more of a tit than before. I'ts quite obv you haven't even tried what was mentioned otherwise you'd actually realise it's possible to the tune of at least 50 opportunities a day depending on the brokers you use
  70. u cant bring it down to any level cause u already at rock bottom; no1 in his right mind wud put his fund at risk with an unregulated industry, nevermind openin' multple acct, that speaks volumes bout u'n'how smart u are..but of course u treblin' u acct every day just by fadin', innit[?]

    get bent
  71. go to hell lizardlegs, im not u buddy'n'i wasn't even talkin' to u.
  72. still irrelevant, bud ;-)

  73. and u still suck big time, bitch
  74. i know
  75. Why can't we all just get along? You two guys should shake hands, cuddle and make up. I can just feel the sexual tension between you two. Get a room already!!!
  76. if u cld feel where xauusd is headed that wld be more helpful...
  77. I was going to apologise for my rudeness but after reading this .. i see there's no point . If I thought it was worth my effort I'd show you my ytd statements showing how I've achieved double digit returns each month but why bother ... someone (you) will say I've edited it. I'll just be happy knowing that I can make money in an unregulated industry that you can't even begin to fathom. I wish you good luck sir ... you need as much as you can get.
  78. Either up or down. It doesn't matter really. If you have an edge, the chances are on your side, all you have to do is put yourself in the same situation as often as possible and let the laws of probabilities do the work. Or you could consult a voodoo priest and try to find out the direction every time.
  79. mmhhh... i hadnt thot about that, thanks...
  80. Tell you what, my own personal opinion aside. I have seen very little complaint on here about FX futures fills, brokers, etc... and tons of complaints about FX cash bucket shops. Oops, let my opinion out.
  81. why ppl attempt to encourage others to trade one particular type of instrument is beyond me. You can benefit from trading both if you fully understand how they work. It seems ppl are too lazy to make the effort to find out themselves. In the end, cos you know the spot fx market is otc, you're always gonna be at the mercy of your conterparty. Even the biggest hedge funds face problems like this with other otc products. Most will have their illiquid positions marked down so that it looks better on the couterparty's books but if you ask for a quote to trade they'll give you a better price. THat's just how the market works, understand that and deal with it
  82. u were goin' to aplogize shit, get real, u last post was very clear... u got pissed cuz i questioned u'n'cudnt get over it. 'n'there's nothin' to phantom 'bout u dear indusrty other than is corrupted'n'deceitful...and da idea u makin' money just cuz it is unregulated it is laughable; of course that u are perfectly at ease amongst crooks, was blantanly obvious already.

  83. haha .. spoken liek a true bitter failure .. maybe you et shoudl hook you up with skalpz .. you can be his bitch ... I hear you got the sweetest meat in town, and with that filthy mouth of yours, they're gonan luuuurve you ... open up bitstream
  84. u a duplicitous bastid, a fake'n'a fraud. nothin' else left to say.
  85. that's what your mamma said about you
  86. u a crash waitin' to happen; leave aside me parents, they both gone'n'got nothin' to do with this shite.
  87. looks like I got the wrong impression ... from your general attitude and lack of common sense I assumed you weren't conceived the same way the rest of us were. Oh well, you best go running home to mamma, oh sorry .. you prob still live at home with your parents.
  88. u da biggest yawn in town; u have no taste'n'deep comprehension issues; i give u 2months before u go boom if u not crippled already.
  89. u da biggest yawn.
  90. nice 1, best line ever, u deserve an award for creativity.
  91. *yawn*
  92. *burp*
  93. Same here.

    There're so many disadvantages in forex cash. Why try to struggle in such a disadvantaged situation?

    As to arbitrage, there're lots of arbitrage anywhere, even in forex futures.

    I don't know, but some say they will inhibit you from trading, or ruin you if you are spotted arbitrage.

    If it is true, I don't see why they need to insist in arbitrage in such an unfair environment.

    Personally, I have never traded in cash forex. I've heard too much bad things about cash forex. I don't need risk my money in a more dangeorus place as I can always utilize the same strategy to earn in other places.
  94. Calm down, sccz97 & Bitstream.

    Flaming is prohibited in this forum, well, actually anywhere. :p

    We all like more peace and less fire. :)
  95. i'll da first to admit got carried away, but u made a good point in u post..with all da arb opp u got on futs'n'elswhere why wud u chose to take da risk of bein' defrauded in u trades'n'lose all u money if u can access a fair mkt'n'avoid da constant tricks boilers play to u trades. it just don't make much sense to me: i was tradin' with a cfd broker'n'it was no better than any other bucketshop...it was amazin' what they were prepare to do to mess up u transactions..from widenin' da spread when things heated up to givin' u da worse prices at settlements'n'addin' shady transaction that never took place. da list goes on'n'on'n'on...it's just no worth it, innit[?]
  96. I have traded hundreds of millions through saxo and never had any problems no requote nothing.Altough their spreads are not very good for the main currencies.I have switched to Currenex and it is even better.1 pip spread on euro and no problem with size.Lava and hot spot are also quite good.People who think they are cheated by their brokers on simple solution open 2 o3 accounts with different brokers and trade with the best price cover your position with an another broker so they will not know your position.Of course you need more margin but anyway trading
    with a 200 or 400 leverage is just suicidal.
  97. Hehe, by finding the right way to trade, you can make money in anyway.
    One must be a full fledged idiot to let a 20-50 or even 100 "suspicious blip" on the charts kill you...
  98. I started reading the referenced article but had to give up due to an accute ROFL attack after the following amazing "discovery" revealed by the author:
    I wish I had some of that $1.3 trillion in my demo account! :D
  99. Hmm so that was me yesterday who moved the market
    with my demo account.
  101. How ridiculous.
    Good spot!

    But I think there's some truth in this article, despite this ridiculous claim.
  102. WM, I disagree with the "every" in the title of this thread. You have acknowledged that you are a neophyte in the forex market. So I can see where you are coming from. This June will mark my 11th year in the forex market. Do business with a reputable broker. The skill and talent required in trading forex is very rare. Just look at the USD/CAD thread.
  103. So who are the reputable brokers?
  104. WM, on the CFTC website you will be able to find out if the broker is registered with them, as well as any black marks that broker may have. Welcome to the forex market.
  105. The best would be the ECN style forex brokers. The rest are market makers.

    Interactive brokers.
    MB trading
    Hotspot FXi

    When CME/Reutures FXmarketspace spools up early next year, expect to see more ECN style brokerage offerings.
  106. What about firms like MB trading though? They do charge a commission and you get a tighter spread...they don't trade against us do they?
  107. Nope, they don't trade against you. They simply match orders with you and their liquidity providers. This is why they charge a commission. That's the only way they make money off you. Unlike the "no commission" market makers.
  108. Do you really think a 'commission' is not that if it's called a 'spread' instead.
  109. Well that's what the brokers would like you to believe :D. I'm really amazed by the "spreads" some brokers can get away with.:eek:
  110. Yeah, I know what you mean. However if you compare interbank quotes with most of the non-commission brokers, you will see the difference.

    Being charged .00002 (2/10 ths of a pips like IB does) or being charged a 1 to 2 pip difference from the interbank or fixed 3 pips...

    Then the difference is clearer. Plus the idea of a broker playing against you (non-commission/non-ECN) is not appealing in the least.
  111. "Then you can enter a trade at one and put your stop in on the other"

    I'm having a difficult time understanding this logic, can you elaborate?
  112. such basic stuff??... perhaps u shldn't trade then mate...
  113. Thanks for the response 2 cents. That was really helpful.
  114. glad i helped ;-) ... more seriously, it's a function of how dealer's inventory management / price shifting is generally performed... there are papers on this if you really need to know - do yr research... - but basically:
    1) go with what roberk says and we'll all save ourselves time for our trading
    2) if you want to observe price shifting, simply open 2 accts at the same broker (under different names or whatever you'll have to do...) and take a position on one acct and none on the other, and you'll get an idea
  115. Well thanks for giving an informative response. I understand what you mean by price shifting/manipulation. But I don't understand what Roberk means when he says to take a position with one broker and set your stop with another.
  116. forex conference in new york this weekend.

    good place to express your concerns and get some freebies.
  117. do some research on stops and you might come up with an answer. the answer is on this thread. learn to read carefully.
  118. nothing necessarily systematic nor permanent here, plus it shld be looked at on a broker case by case basis, and in most (99%?) instances its simply a result of across-the-board normal dealer inventory management, but... at a single broker/dealer the quotes you get may be shifted 1-2 pips against you if you are in the market for that specific pair, thus triggering stops 'earlier' than they would have if you'd been flat at that particular broker... in any case, this is not whats going to make or break you as a trader, hence my initially 'dismissive' response... and as roberk says, if your worried about it, just do what he says, or use an ECN-type broker who accepts stop orders... in any case its normal practice to have at least 2 brokers, for tons of obvious reasons... hope i don't need to explain that one too :) have a nice week-end!
  119. one last thing, in fast markets, its fairly frequent for big players to simply sweep the order book and take out everything in say, up to 5 pips from mid-price... similarly when a big custie suddenly hits a small single b/d with a string of 10mio bullets, the dealer inventory management system is going to start shifting quotes swiftly and perform similar type 'wide' sweeps internally and/or on the market so as to lay off risk... and take out your stops in the process even if that price wasn't touched at another broker's (and things go back to 'normal' at your own broker's within minutes)... and its even worse if this happens when the mkt's quiet...

    ok the wife is yelling now... gotta go... :))))))
  120. You just put a limit order in at the other broker at the same level you would have put a stop at your original broker. If it is triggered you have two postions at two brokers, one long and one short. Close them both out and it is the same as being stopped out of the trade.
  121. WaveMaster,
    2cents posts have provided a wealth of information for myself and many others on this forum in regards to the world of Forex. I don't know him personally but I do know that he is a skilled and experienced trader and IMHO is one of the most valued contributors on Elite Trader. Rather than throwing bits of sarcasm his way, your time would be better spent reviewing his posts not only in this thread but in past threads.
  122. still... he is right there, i wasn't being v.helpful ;-) but thanks gowron8
  123. Alright! ... I finally got an answer to my question! ... Hip Hip Hooray! ... Thanks Roberk, I knew I could count on you. That's all I was asking for folks, a concise explanation. No need for smart ass remarks motivated by egotism and arrogance. But I guess that's what happens to some people when they are successful and lack the discipline and maturity to treat others with respect.
  124. wow... loads of repressed feelings in there! such a fragile ego... good luck to you pal
  125. Yes, straightforward answer is always the best! :D

    Glad to hear someone has answered your question before me.

    As a supplement, you should realise your profit/loss is being locked when you have 1 long and short position at the same time, so you shouldn't need to worry someone behind watching your stop/position.
    The disadvantage is you need to pay for a bit more commissions for this method, but it may be worth it if you consider the risks & potential losses saved.
  126. congratilations commenting on your own posting shows that yyou know who your best audience is.
  127. Perhaps true, but not something that will keep me from being successful.

    I think you need to take a second look at the author of the post immediately before yours. Now who is the one that needs to learn to read carefully? By the way, how is the fillet of sole?
  128. I comment on my own post again. :p

    Do we look so similar, huh?! :cool:

  129. LOL ... Good one!
  130. It's the "w" and "aster."

    Cousins? :p
  131. Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a total mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.
  132. Yes, you are right.
    So an apparently quite different word can be read as the same. :D

  133. oh really?

  134. Broker can do lots of nasty things beyond your imagination. Just remember that you are dealing with a less regulated market that is traded over the counter. If you read the book "Beat the Forex Dealer" you can see several excellent examples about how they can manipulate your trades. Visit http://www.forexbrace.com/content/view/96/76/ to read my review of the book.

  135. Relax bitch, they reverse everything hit by erroneous quotes.

    You're a demo trader, right?
  136. Ha ha, what a conversation killer! LOL
  137. It`s true!
  138. Sounds like you already made up your mind ya clown
  139. lolllll :) :cool:
  140. I must say, I've just ordered a copy of Beat The Forex Dealer, no harm in trying to understanding how they operate...

    Anyone know what the Frankfurt session times are during DST months?