Home > The Business of Trading > Taxes and Accounting > Do not use tradelog for your taxes

Do not use tradelog for your taxes

  1. This is a software built for importing your trading information to report your year end tax info.

    This company is out to get your money. The software works, but then when your subscription expires, they lock it so you can't edit it. This makes it so every year when you want to re-use it you have to spend $200+ to upgrade your subscription so you can use the software you already bought.

    I dealt with them on the phone all week because I bought an upgrade in January, my hard drive crashed and I wasn't back up until last week, but now my subscription expired. So now even though I paid for the software, I can't edit any entries. They would not resolve the issue at all. They just sent me canned messages in email about how they have great customer service and that I can just pay the subscription fee to make it work.

    Companies like this with their arrogant policies really make one wonder how they stay in business.
  2. i agree i find them arrogant and disrepectful. used them for 4 years but i dropped them 10 months ago as i found them rude as hell. great software but very expensive
  3. Hedgeking what are you using now? I am searching for other options.
  4. Many brokers offer a download that either does all the work (IB and Ameritrade for example) or that with a little work with a spreadsheet for open positions on December 31st can be just as good.

    Granted if you have huge numbers of long-term holdings with stock splits, reinvested dividents, mergers, spinoffs etc a good program like GainsKeeper can do wonders for you..

    Ameritrade happens to use the GainsKeeper product, as do other brokers.

    Or there's PLENTY of other software with lifetime licenses that can be bought for under $100.

    Just Google: trader gain/loss tracking
    to see plenty of good products.
  5. You're right; it's pretty ridiculous what they charge. I wouldn't mind if they charged like $50 for additional years, but charging almost as much as you paid for the program that you paid initially is nuts. Unfortunately I'm stuck using TradeLog because my accountant uses them. Saves more on accounting fees than it costs.

    Here are some tricks I use to make sure that I don't pay every year for updates. First, I make sure all my trades are downloaded (and correct) for the year as soon as I'm done trading for the year. That way, if there's an update I miss after year-end, I already have all my trades downloaded for the year. When my year of support and updates is about to expire, I don't renew, but I do make sure I have the most recent updates. I only renew when my taxes are due, and only if the program no longer supports my broker's web format. I've used the program starting in tax year 2003 or 2004, and I've only had to renew once, which expires this summer.

    So for example I did my first renewal in summer 2006, just before my 2005 taxes were due. Then I downloaded my 2005 trades, and of course my 2006 trades will be taken care of since I have free updates until summer 2007. At the end of this year I will download my 2007 trades and make sure everything's correct. The only way I will have to renew before the end of this year is if one of my brokers changes their web format between summer and the end of the year. Then I will renew again in summer 2009 if necessary, just before my 2008 taxes are due...which should cover years 2008-2010. Bottom line is, I'm renewing about every 3 years instead of annually.
  6. BTW, I've contacted them several times for help (while I was paid for the year, of course) and they've always been very prompt and helpful in their responses. I'm guessing they don't give you the time of day if your year is expired.
  7. To correct myself, if this does happen, I will wait until summer 2008 to renew, and download the rest of my 2007 trades at that point.

    Should this happen, which I think is unlikely, I will have to renew every other year, but in most cases I think every third year will suffice.
  8. It is sad when a software company gets bad mouthed in a forum and all the facts have not been stated.

    1. TradeLog is sold as a one year subscription as are many of the reputable trader tax accounting software programs on the market, and this fact is plainly stated on our web site and purchase page.

    2. TradeLog is priced below our main competitor Gainskeeper and in is only half the price for the full version. And this is even after they recently reduced their prices!

    3. Most software in this market is priced on an annual basis.

    4. Tradelog is the ONLY software that has phone support. This is not cheap and when doing your taxes most users find that being able to pick up the phone to speak with a live person is worth every penny.

    5. The IRS schedule d and the wash sale rule is probably the most complex forms of all the IRS tax forms. Most cheap trader tax software programs fall far short of meeting these requirements, and many even state on their web sites that they do not meet the IRS wash sale rules.

    Why do you think TurboTax and TaxCut do not handle this properly if it was so easy and cheap to program?

    You get what you pay for. As Lee Iacocca once said "If you find a better 'trader tax software', buy one."

    David Eich,
    TradeLog author
  9. They lock it but you can still use it on your desktop. I bought tradelog1000 in 2004 and have used it every year since....with no accounting problems.
  10. Hi All,

    I shopped around for the best tax software and chose TradeLog over Gainskeeper for two reasons:

    1. The TradeLog trial was much easier to use than Gainskeeper (for me).

    2. The TradeLog price includes an UNLIMITED number of trades. With Gainskeeper, you have to buy additional 'buckets' if you trade alot (over 500 trades a year). This is bad for the frequent daytrader.

    Gainskeeper would have been cheaper for me initially (because I could have gotten an MB Trading discount), but with the high volume of trades I do, TradeLog is way cheaper!

    Not a paid cheerleader, just a happy customer.

  11. I can't stand all the current tax programs that charge based on how many trades you make. $300+ a year is a joke.

    I used Simply Track for the last 2 years
    Cost is $50.

    You can download and test out the software, the only limitation is that you cannot print or save to pdf at the end. It helps me combine trades and adjust for stock split.

    However, since IB now generates it's own Schedule D, I probably won't be purchasing it after this year.

    Good Luck!
  12. You cannot use IB's schedule d for two reasons:

    1) It does not calculate wash sales and the IRS requires that you do.

    2) If you have one other account at one other broker or even another account at IB you cannot use it because wash sales have to be calculated across all of your accounts.

    PS: In doing this for 6 years I have yet to see any broker who provides an accurate P&L for active traders. Time and time again we see errors in these reports and IB is no different.

    We have seen many discrepancies this tax year alone. This is a common question among our users when the results in TradeLog do not match with their brokers P&L results. Time and again we are proven to be right and the broker P&L is proven to be wrong.

    For those accounts that match, then OK, this may work (if you also have no wash sales and no other accounts). But if you rely on the broker P&L results you may be filing your taxes improperly and over or under stating your gains.

    Who wants to take such a chance with the IRS?
  13. You are correct in that IB's schedule D does not account for wash sales.

    I have elected Mark-to-Market years ago and the wash sale rule does not apply to me.

  14. I have been using trade log some time ago and it was realy amazing story. After one of "upgrades" this guy has changed in the program hard coded date format and it was not possible to download data any more beacuse program could not handle date properly. It was more than half a year until the exipiry of the subscription so actually he has stolen my money.

    How can you trust the calculation of taxes to the dilettante who is even unable to program proper handling of date format !
  15. I am not sure what you refer to but if a broker changes their statement format then TradeLog has to issue an update to their import filter to handle the new formatting. An update is usually made available in a matter of days from the time we first hear about it. If we could no longer import from any of our 35+ supported brokers our phones would be ringing off the hook!

    If you had cared to check our update page or call or email us about the problem, it would certainly have been remedied and I do not appreciate your slur on our competence.

  16. In your "support e-mail" the response was: we do not support this date format any more.
    And your response now only confirms that you dont understand what are you talking about. It's a local date format in europe and other customers may be were able to download data.

    I can only confirm that you lack min competence even to code usual handling of international date format. An you have stolen more than a half of my subscription. It's not only computer literacy but also credibility and integrity issue.
  17. It is not that we all of a sudden do not support foreign windows date formats, but evidently you changed your windows date format to an unsupported format and now the import won't work, or your broker changed their date format and the conversion became broken.

    If you simply change to a standard US mm/dd/yyyy format you would have no problems.

    And contrary to popular belief, Microsoft does not always support their own international date formats by making this transparent to the software developer. Some formats convert automatically and some formats like dd/mm/yyyy do not.

    We have looked at recoding for this one particular eurpean date format (there may be others as well) but it is a monumental task because there is no easy way to check a text string as to whether the first two characters are a month or a day. So if Windows does not do the conversion for us, then we are dead in the water.

    If you want to discuss your particular issue this really in not the proper venue and you are welcome to contact me directly.

  18. I would suggest you manually enter trades...then you dont have to put up with all the BS.
  19. Since you use our TradeLog software I suspect that you really do not think manually entering your trades is the best method of keeping track of your trades.

    1. If you manually enter your trade history you have many opportunities for errors. If you do 10 trades per day you have 60 chances of making an error in data entry. A minimum trade history entry requires a date, buy/sell, code, ticker, shares, price, and commission. 6 entries x 10 = 60 entries per day x 200 trading days = 12,000 chances for error!

    Importing your trade history from your broker is much more accurate. But every broker provides this data in a different format, and not all easily import into a spreadsheet without a lot of reformatting - more chances for errors.

    2. OK, let's say you were able to manually enter everything accurately. Now you have to match these trades for the IRS schedule d. How would you match these transactions?: buy 1000 sh, sell 200 sh, sell 300 sh, buy 500 sh, sell 700 sh, sell 300 sh - More chances for errors!

    3. Finally, how do you accurately apply the wash sale rule to all these trades? Yes, it is possible to do this by hand, but obviously it is much easier to purchase software to do so.

    Traders purchase many tools for their trading business. Tax tools are a necessity. The IRS rules for schedule d are extremely complex and only get more complex as you increase your trading.

    Have you ever wondered why TurboTax, which is part of a mutli billion dollar corporation, does not calculate wash sales? I am sure their marketing guys know there is a need for this.

    What about the brokers? Why don't they provide a schedule d with wash sales if it was so easy? Many have tried and many have failed. That's why they link to software such as TradeLog, because we provide the needed solution and are dedicated to doing this one thing right.

    Most of our users have found that TradeLog saves them days if not weeks of time when preparing their schedule d. How much is your time worth?

    But let's get back to the whole point of this thread: Our company was accused of just being "out to get your money." Good software is not cheap. You get what you pay for. We simply cannot provide the best software and the best service and give it away for free. If we did we would be out of business and our customers would be back to dealing with this issue by hand.

    Our loyal customers appreciate and respect that about us.

    - End of story.
  20. WTF are you talking about - "TurboTax doesn't calculate wash sales"??? Are you serious???
  21. They don't. Neither does H&R Block's TaxCut. If you want to account for wash sales correctly when using these two programs, you have to figure out the wash sale basis transfers manually and type all of these into your return manually. It is a huge pain in the ass. I've used Trade Log for this purpose. It rocks. I wish they had a Mac version so I could run it at home.
  22. JESUS H CHRIST!!! How the frick can somebody put together tax software that DOESN'T calculate wash sales!! That's absurd!!! The free version of GainsKeeper that I get on my broker's website calculates wash sales, but TurboTax doesn't?
  23. Mon 2007-04-02

    A friend sent me a link to this forum topic as a chuckle. I chuckled but I had to join this forum to speak directly regarding this particular thread. By way of introduction, I am retired, which affords me the ability to sleep 45 hours a week now, instead of the 28 hours per week that I enjoyed for 45 years or so. I've had a long and varied career, always self-employed, but among other things, I was a limited partner in a firm with seats on the CBOT and the CME. I still trade but not full-time.

    Trade Accounting Software

    I occasionally do support work for a firm which specializes in taxation of hedge funds and traders. I may get involved with clients with more than 40,000 transactions per year, or those with peculiar trading strategies or trading oddball derivatives of various sorts. I never see accounts that work out correctly on the first pass -- only those that present problems -- basically those that represent the toughest challenge for trade-accounting software.

    Traders with high volumes are encouraged to use Trade Depot, which for the Wash Sale version, starts at $1500 with a $500 per year maintenance fee, plus at least one part-time bookkeeper or service (starting at about $300 per month). Some high-volume traders use TradeLog successfully but it presents problems when volume goes above 30,000 transactions/annum. High-volume traders, on price alone, stay clear of GainsKeeper.

    I have a major problem with GainsKeeper in that there is no way to determine what it did nor how it did it. It is simply a black box which spits out a good-looking report. Unless the taxpayer signs a waiver of responsibility, a tax firm would best avoid using a GainsKeeper report for a tax return. Does that say something meaningful to you?

    If you rely on any tax report furnished by your broker, you are making a mistake. If any broker can demonstrate consistently correct results, we have not yet seen it. The situation is much worse than you might imagine -- we have yet to see even one of these reports which was correct. This firm has nearly 2,000 clients, so what are the odds that yours happens to be correct?

    TradeLog has deficiencies. Trade Depot has deficiencies. With Trade Depot, after paying $1,500 to buy the small wash-sale version, you will spend about $4,100/a to run it. So TradeLog looks like quite a bargain, on price alone. I can say without equivocation that for the smaller trader, TradeLog is by far your best and cheapest option, all things considered -- your tax bill, your time, and the cost of TradeLog versus anything else.

    I have spoken with Dave Eich a few times concerning some issue and he has been courteous and forthright. And on a couple of those occasions, he must have stayed up all night because the very next morning, a new version was available.

    Perhaps he does not help you if you are not a current paying customer, but if so, can you blame him? Do you talk to your doctor for free? Do you talk to your lawyer for free? Do you talk to your accountant for free? Have you ever tried talking to GainsKeeper? (ho-ho-ho)

    Software exists for different purposes, and I agree that in certain cases, you probably do not need the latest version. Take Microsoft Office -- I paid about $300 for it in 1995, again in 1997, again in 2000, and yet again in 2003. I use Word a bit, Access a bit more, and Excel constantly, but since 1995 they have not introduced a single new feature that I use. In fact, feature-wise, I could still be using WordPerfect and Quattro Pro from 1987. And I paid Microsoft $450 for NT3.5 and $350 for the upgrade to NT4.0 and $900 total for Win2kPro on 3 computers, and $1,420 total for XP Pro on 5 computers plus $1,100 for WinServer2003 for the 110-pound chunk of hardware on the floor here. I don't even want to add it up.

    But do you suppose Microsoft will give me free support? No sir, 85 bucks an hour. (Though I no longer call them because my experience back in the 80's was that I knew more than the drudge I got on the phone.) The point is this -- I spent all that money on software that basically does the same dang thing it did 20 years ago. I have seen no noticeable improvement whatsoever. I could load up 20-year-old software and crank out the same result (presuming it could function on this computer, which it could not).

    Trade accounting software is not like that. If Ray at Trade Depot and Dave at TradeLog weren't constantly keeping up with changes, the software would be inoperable or at best, produce incorrect results. So the idea of using an older version seems odd to me. Trade accounting software is TAX software. Would you use TurboTax 97 year after year? Do you expect Intuit to provide assistance doing 2006 taxes when you last bought the software for Tax Year 2005? That sort of thinking puzzles me.


    Up until 1974, I was doing my own taxes, getting hints at parties from nearby tax accountants and tax lawyers. That year a friend of mine, with 10 times as much money as I (this tends to make me listen), said "Are you nuts?!!!! Go see these people!" and he pulled his accountants' card from his wallet. A fully loaded Cadillac could be had in that year for $3,700, and your best deal now for a comparable is about $42,000. That gives you an idea of the value of money, then and now.

    Those accountants gave me a bill for $3,200. Seemed like a lot. But wait! They saved me, in one year, $9,200! I was $6,000 to the good. They bought me a Volvo 164 (priced out same as the Caddy) and a full-size van ($1,850), plus Surf-n-Turf for two every Saturday night for a year. And I didn't spend 40 hours agonizing over an inch-thick tax return, or worrying about that October 15 deadline coming up. (Filing before April 15? Why not just call and request an audit?)

    If you are a trader and you have a regular accountant doing your taxes, you might want to re-think this issue. I personally see traders save $10k, $50k, $200k/a in taxes by switching to accountants who do nothing but trader taxation. Savings of 10% to 20% are common, but I've seen much more than that. Unfortunately, I've also seen traders sue their former accountants, and I don't really think that is fair. If you're a trader, aren't you supposed to have better sense than to use a general practice accountant? Disclaimer: results vary, yada, yada, yada.

    Trader taxation is an unnecessarily complicated field, and it's not your accountants' fault. Heart surgery is complicated, and it's not your family doctor's fault -- but would you have him operate on your heart?

    As regards tax software, I have a nodding acquaintance with the following: Fast-Tax (~$2,400/user/a), Lacerte (~$1,600/user/a), and CCH (~$1,800/user/a). These are tax-preparation applications used by professionals. They go way beyond TurboTax. None of them computes wash sales. None of them automatically computes any of the specialized needs of traders or hedge funds. That's why there are trader tax specialists. And that's why there is Trade Depot, and TradeLog, and <cough> several others.

    One final thing. I have heard traders say "I lost money last year so I <don't need>/<can't afford> my tax accountant this year." Keep that three-year-old car another year. Pay your accountant.

    Full Disclosure

    I love tax accountants who specialize in trader taxation. I love them so much, I married one, and believe me, I hear all the stories, and that's how I got roped into helping out. She spends about 400 hours a year just keeping up with changes in rules and regulations. This time of year she is computing taxes to file extensions -- usually at work at 0400h and quitting when I drag her away at 1940h -- 7 days a week -- that's about 110 hours per week. Then until October 15 she finalizes tax returns, working only 70 hours per week -- a veritable cakewalk. She lives and breathes trader taxation. (Does your accountant work that hard? Does he even care?) I know it's hard to figure but she ENJOYS this. Luckily, her office is here at home and she's rarely more than 90 feet away.
  24. to the above note. i trade around 300k times a year and use one if not the best trader accountant in america and to use anything like tradelog or gainskeeper is stupid and unneeded. the wash run sales is bs if one closes all positons at year end. 1 line accounting is all thats needed for a full time heavy trader. most brokers like tos or ameritrade provide free gainskeeper if you need to download your trades.don't let these software vendors scare you into buying there wares
  25. I have used TradeLog for about 4 years and generally found David Eich to be responsive and fast at addressing changes in format, bugs, etc.

    One thing has changed: David must have hired someone to do his support. My last few interactions with support for the first time made me think about looking at other software. The responses were arrogant and he/she basically "did not want to deal with the issue" I was having. After a lot of back and forth, I was asked to submit an enhancement request, which I did. Within minutes i got an email back (from the same support person!) saying NO to the request. That's pretty poor, imo.
  26. i agree . i asked tradelog to change some things and they were rude as hell to me and also told me no.david you need to be nice to your customers who put food on your table. you got a good product but the way you treat people is driving people away
  27. We have users who are being audited for exactly that practise. You can file your taxes any way you like and ignore any of the tax rules and it is OK, until you get audited.

    If you have not elected Mark to Market then you must report wash sales. Even if all your positions are closed at year end, if you sell a stock or option at a loss and in December and then buy it back within 30 days in January then that loss is disallowed for that tax year and must be deferred. Anyone who tells you differently is not much of an accountant.

    PS: You need to be very careful about giving tax advise that clearly ignores IRS tax laws, and the wash sale rule is part of that law, like it or not.
  28. I wish our users would have the courage to complain to me rather than to the world if they feel they are not getting the support they have been accustomed to receiving from our company. We get very few such complaints.

    We are growing rapidly and out of necessity are having to add support staff, and sometimes that creates problems. But we still listen to our customers.

    Please understand that our primary concern during tax season is helping our users to get their trader taxes filed on time! Also please understand that many procrastinators who only now are trying to reconcile their 2006 trades have short fuses when asking for support.

    So sometimes requests for non tax related enhancements are not given priority during this critical time period. But that does not mean that we do not listen.

    I suspect that is why no one else has any phone support. Maybe we should join the pack and reduce our price to the sub $100 price range and offer little or no support like the rest? I could simply have an email autoresponder reply to every support request to read the online manual and tutorial.

    Then during tax season, I will have no employees to worry about and I and my wife can be lounging on the beach in Costa Rica. We could be true internet entrepreneurs.

    If I spend any more time in this forum, I think this alternative will begin to look better and better to me. But I don't think that most of our customers would appreciate this.
  29. Complaining publicly is the most effective way of complaining. And a surefire way to get the sought after response.

    Complaining directly and silently to some employee at some company most often only ends up in the trash bin or possibly laughed over on the coffee break. :D
  30. use gainskeeper.
  31. Despite my reserved comments above, I still use TradeLog for all my trade accounting and have recommended it to my trader friends.

    Schedule D is very hard to figure out on your own, and as far as I can tell, TL does it correctly. Also, when the SchD continuation sheets are measured in pounds, Excel is just not a practical option, for me at least.

    TradeLog has over the last few months undergone major enhancements, all of which have made it easier to use. In terms of overall value and accuracy, I haven't found anything close.
  32. My case rests. You can see David Eich's arrogant, smug attitude in each of his replies to this thread. The software is convenient and saved me a lot of time, but the interaction with him turned me off.
  33. According to the wash sales rule the stock you buy within 30 days does not have to be the same but similar to the stock you've sold. How does TradeLog software know to match buys and sells of different stocks for the wash sales purposes?
  34. So how does the software qualify 2 stocks ( options, mutual funds) as being 'substantially identical' apart from the case of them having the same underlying?
  35. A stock is not the same as a mutual fund and it does not matter if the fund includes the stock.

    If you trade the same mutual fund then you may incur wash sales.
  36. Based on your explanation I draw the conclusion that the IRS term 'substantially identical' boils down in TradeLog to 'having the same underlying'. Is my conclusion correct?
  37. Yes
  38. rice rocket is correct. the software is good but david eich is a dick period.your customers are your blood line and if you don't treat them right they will leave. there's services out there that will do each scd d per company no matter how many entries for $50 per company.
  39. I can see that this forum is not much for providing useful information to traders, but more for slander and public humiliation. When you are in business you cannot always please every customer. RiceRocket is a classic example of one who wanted to extend his software subscription without paying for it because his PC crashed.

    He also chose to purchase a much cheaper record level upgrade with only one month left on his subscription despite the fact that we clearly explained on our purchase page that this would NOT extend his subscription period. How is that our problem?

    Now disgruntled, he pops in every once in while to further offer his hurtful comments. We are not a perfect software company manned with perfect employees. Sometimes during tax season users call or email us and they are mad as a hatter because they are under the gun to get their taxes done and they don't want to read the user guide.

    We do our best to handle calm them down. We even had 3 different customers send one of our support persons gift certificates this tax season. But some people just want to go out and maliciously spread as much negative talk as they can so they somehow hurt our company or business.

    TradeLog is priced quite reasonably when compared to our closest competitor who offers no phone support and limited explanation about how their software works or handles the many different nuances of the IRS wash sale rule.

    We have many users how would disagree with much of the negative comments in this forum, but they are too busy being professional in their trading business for such nonsense.

    I trust that anyone reading this will see through this attack.
  40. Hello,

    My name is Stephen Boyle and I am the account manager for GainsKeeper retail. I hope I can clarify a few misconceptions about GainsKeeper and the product we offer with this post and more to follow. TradeLog has stated repeatedly throughout this thread that we do not offer phone support. This is incorrect. GainsKeeper provides a Call Back service for all of our Trader level customers. GainsKeeper provides corporate actions processing while Trade Log users need to enter this information manually. Our product is tax-accurate, backed by Capital Changes (the corporate action information system used by the IRS), includes Basis Pro calculations (the powerhouse of historical cost basis data), and offers tax-smart trading tools that allow you to harvest loss and save more money on your taxes than you would ever spend on GainsKeeper.

    Currently, our brokerage product is used and trusted by TDAmeritrade, OptionsXpress, Scottrade, Sharebuilder, Zecco, TurboTax, and many other established names in the industry.

    We have had a huge weakness in our past - customer support. I am instituting Inbound Customer phone support this summer to address this need and provide a more consumer friendly product.

    Yes, GainsKeeper is more expensive than TradeLog for many users. Why is it more expensive? The same reason why a Porsche is more expensive than a Miata. It is a better product. I offer each TradeLog user who has posted to this thread to take the Pepsi challenge. E-mail me at steve.boyle@wolterskluwer.com so I can explain to you personally why GainsKeeper is a superior product for your tax needs.

    After you make the decision to switch to GainsKeeper, I will reduce your GainsKeeper subscription price by the amount you paid to our competitor this year. I look forward to speaking with all of you and I look forward to earning your business.

    Stephen Boyle

  41. As a former user of tradelog I have a good fun to read such clarifications.

    I havent seen the more dilettante piece of sw for the price. If the "developer" of sw is not able to implement correctly date arithmetics the taxes can be very expensive.

    My reference for tradelog: stay away, there are much better solutions.
  42. I would like the opportunity to speak with you regarding the data issues you were having with our competitor. Perhaps this is a problem GainsKeeper can handle more effectively. As a web based solution we have the ability to implement new functionalities, improve data imports, and make adjustments to accounts as changes are made to the type of data provided by brokerages.

    The problem you are facing is a good example of how a web based solution is a more effective approach to the constantly changing financial services marketplace. I do not think you can fault our competitors for many of the criticisms levied in this e-mail thread but we feel that GainsKeeper can provide a more dynamic solution for today's active traders.

    Thanks again,

  43. Whether you use software that resides on your PC, or a web based service, it still requires an update if your brokerage changes their trade history format. For example, if you import from a broker provided csv file, and your broker adds or changes a column, then the import process may not work properly, and an update is necessary. The same is true when using a broker API interface. If the broker changes the API, then the software company must update their software.

    I acknowledge that a web based service is able to implement changes on their side so all users have the update immediately, but the web based provider still has to update their software. Downloadable software must be re-downloaded just like thousands of other software titles that one may use. I really don't see this as an issue. The question is how quickly this is done, and we pride ourselves on our fast response to such issues and do not hide our update history.

    We also have an 800 number for sales and support that is manned by live technicians who can assist our users when they get stuck or have questions.

    In addition, TradeLog properly calculates wash sales between long and short trades, between stocks and options, and between options with dissimilar expirations and strike prices where most of our competitors do not. - See: http://fairmark.com/capgain/wash/wsshort.htm and

    PS: There is a downside to web based services that many traders shy away from, and that is privacy and security, as your trade information (and possibly your account login) no longer resides safely on your PC.

    If any of you would like to discuss why TradeLog is a superior product at half the price, you may call us at 800-372-6078, and we would be happy to provide the details.
  44. Tradelog you say you have live support but you never answer the freakin phone. Its always a damm answering machine
  45. 1. Call during normal support hours 9am-5pm est, Mon-Fri

    2. If you get voice mail it means we are on the phone. Leave a message and we ususally call back within the hour.

    3. Please do not use profanity as piggie2000 is accustomed to doing in his few posts on this site.

    Piggie2000, if you are a registered user and have a problem, then call and follow the above steps rather than slandering me.
  46. David's team has screwed me more times than I can remember, stay away please.
  47. I've used tradelog for 2yrs now and have had no complaints. They've tried very hard to keep up with IBs constant changes to their reports presentation.

    I also like the reports you can generate with the software.

    Considering that Tradelog and Gainskeeper cater to a small pool of active traders, I can understand their premium pricing. It's not like they're selling millions of copies like turbotax or MS Money, so they need to charge a higher price to cover their overhead. As far as customer service is concerned, I've had phone conversations with David before, and I think it's a plus that you can talk directly to the company owner / software author.

    Not a paid shill, but I can say I'm satisfied with the product.
  48. Let me start by saying that I love this forum. I appreciate that these competing products are on the minds of active traders.

    I have always had a hard time understanding why our competitors mistakenly believe there is an advantage to having all of this data bogging down your personal PC. The security issue of a web based system is invented. Most users trade actively on web based platforms. If they don't trade online they receive their data via e-mail files or internet downloads. In addition, I would prefer to maintain my trading and tax data behind the protective walls of GainsKeeper's secure environment. Is this not better than having your tax accounting history stored on your PC, maybe (and maybe not) backed up a zip drive you hide in your desk drawer? In my opinion the more secure option is having GainsKeeper worrying about backing up and protecting this data. If something happens to your home it does not mean the IRS will take your word for it when it comes time to cough up records for an audit.

    We have Live Support technicians accessible currently via the Live Chat icon on the front page of your GainsKeeper account. If you prefer to get on the phone, simply ask your Live Chat tech or e-mail a Call Back Request to our Support center. This process will be replaced with inbound support in July.

    It is not my intention to join in on the criticism of our competitor product. I simply believe GainsKeeper is better. I feel for any trader who holds positions overnight at any time and has to manually enter corporate actions on their account. We have a team of corporate actions specialist that process these complex taxable events into our web based environment. We have a pricing team that allows users to track all of their brokerage accounts in one place with daily pricing and tax smart trading tools. The reality is that these tools can only be delivered in a web based product.

    Thank you,


  49. TradeLog data files are plain text and extremely small and in no way "bog down" your PC. And since most PC users have some sort of backup procedure for their PC, this is not a problem.

    PS: Anyone who uses a PC and does not backup their data is asking for trouble. This is not just our opinion but is a necessity for anyone using a PC. So when you backup your PC, you can backup your TradeLog data files as well. If you want to do this over the Internet, there are many sites that offer this service.

    Many active traders would disagree - they comment to us frequently that they do not like the idea of having their confidential trade history maintained on a 3rd party web site. They also do not like the fact that 1000's of users are all trying to run reports on April 13 from the same web site rather than from their own PC.

    This may be of concern for long term investors, but for most traders manually adjusting for events that may only happen once or twice per year is not a big deal. Plus when you do this yourself, you KNOW that it is done right!

    Not quite true because we do this with a downloadable product quite nicely. Oh, and what about when you want to do something like analyze your trades when not connected to the Internet?
  50. PS: I would love to hear your comments about wash sales between stocks and options trades and between options and options.
  51. My competitor alternately encourages users to find a service that will back up your data, then states that customers do not want their data held by a third party.

    The ability to download reports and manage data off of our servers was as quick and efficient on April 13th as it is today. I challenge anyone top find an example of a customer who saw a reduction in the speed of data retrieval at or near the end of tax season. I can tell you right now with complete confidence that THIS DID NOT HAPPEN.

    We actually have the capacity to handle exponentially more data and users requests than could ever be made by users of the retail product. This criticism is invented, GainsKeeper has not had any issues because of increased activity during the end of tax season.

    It is laughable for our competitor to say that you are better off manually entering in Corporate Actions when GainsKeeper owns CCH (the corporate action information database that the IRS uses to verify that you have processed Corporate actions correctly) and uses CCH to post these events to your account. The reason why our competitor exists is to provide a service that seeks to automate and avoid human error, then encourages you to manually input the most complex transactions of all?

    I am going to have to step away now as many of the Elitetrader users participating in this thread would like to discuss the options available to them to move to GainsKeeper and recoup any expense paid out to a competitor product. Please feel free to reach out to me so we can discuss signing you up for GainsKeeper.


  52. That's not quite what I said. What I said was EVERYONE should back up the data on their PC! Doing so using a local removable device such as as CD, DVD, hard drive, or memory stick is preferred by users who do not want to have their data stored by a 3rd party. But the web option exists if you don't care about who has access to your data.

    That's funny, because a few years back I was approached at Traders Expo by one of the GK founders about potentially providing TradeLog to their client base for exactly that reason. All I can say is calculating thousands, or even millions of wash sale calculations can tax the most robust back office systems. It is simply a matter of CPU power versus demand. But if it has been fixed by throwing tons of CPU power at it, then good for them.

    Since this happens so infrequently it has not been a problem. TradeLog has a one click adjust for stock split function, and a change ticker function when a stock changes name. Mergers require a few more adjustments, but are accomplished quite easily. But if you carried positions for many years and have a boat load of mergers and name changes, then such a service might be for you. But do you know for sure it was done right? The beauty of TradeLog is it forces you to check and verify such edits to your data.

    We have never pushed TradeLog as a corporate actions or cost basis tracking solution, as a perfect solution to this does not currently exist. This is a major flaw in the brokerage reporting industry and you can find lots of comments about this on reputable financial web sites.

    The whole point of TradeLog is to automate the most important things like importing your trades, matching them properly, and accurately accounting for wash sales. Oops, our competitor forgot to address their deficiency in this critical area.

    PS: Many of our users who have switched to us did not do so because of some Pepsi challenge rebate, but because we represent the best value for the buck and provide exceptional support. I am not quite sure why our competitor has waited so long to address the phone support issue, but all I can say is it has been good for us.
  53. This is a cut and paste from my broker's website regarding gainskeeper:

    Why in the world would my broker tell me to NOT use gainskeeper for tax purposes???
  54. Tradelog, you currently don't cover Genesis. Is there any possibility that you may do so? I like your product but if it doesn't cover a prominent broker like Genesis, then it's not worth paying the yearly fees that you charge and then have to manually match and reconcile trades for some of the more noteworthy brokers that you don't cover.
  55. I believe Genesis clears thru Penson Financial and you may be able to use our Penson import filter. Please get the free trial to test for yourself.
  56. .

    Actually, they are self-clearing and also clear through PFS. Unfortunately, my account is with their self-clearing program. So, it would be a waste of money to use tradelog for my needs unless you happen to acquire an import filter for Genesis's self-clearing segment. Thanks anyway.
  57. You must be new to the financial markets.

    Ever read a Corporate 10-Q Filing and all of the super conservative and "negative" language? The last paragraph that you cite ( from Scottrade ) is simply a legal way of not being held legally liable for any accounting/tax inaccuracies.
  58. Signed up for gainskeeper. It treaded expired options, assigned options (call or put) as it should after following steps required to clean up extra trades from my broker.

    Also took care of one corporate action (NCC becomng PNC).

    It woked fine for a broker with Penson as clearing firm since no exporting is required.

    The only issue is it can not connect with Interactive Brokers and IB also does not have file format to export which would let you import it in gains keeper.

    Overall happy with the product. Hoping to get IB issue resolved.
  59. I use TradeLog and think the program is great. It saves me a lot of time during tax time. I especially like the wash sale feature. The only problem that I had was that I couldn't put forex trades into it. I handled those transactions separately in an Excel spreadsheet.
  60. I'm a first time user of Tradelog (printing my 2008 Sched D as I type) and I think the program is great. I posted my experience with it on another BB:


    The only complaints I have are:

    1) I needed some assistance with symbol changes and mergers and they insisted that I send my data file to them. Tradelog wrote here that:

    Not only would I object to that but I also would not want it in a 3rd party's hands, no matter how safe they claim it to be. Fortunately, I was able to figure out an input price to get the program to produce the same P&L result on the Sched D as in reality.

    2) I wish the program would print more info per page so I don't need a hernia belt to lift my return :)
    I'm a noob at this so it may exist. If so, my only complaint is the privacy issue. Apart from that, I'm glad to rid of this tax preparation nightmare and I feel comfortable knowing that if I screw up again next year and incur some wash sale violations, it's no big deal.
  61. I have a simple question - does TradeLog and other similar software is using floating point or decimal arithmetic calculations. Because it is a huge difference.
  62. I see TradeLog and GainsKeeper representatives on the forum - could you please tell me how you prorm your calculations - a floating point or decimal arithmetic?
  63. sorry for mistyping - ...perform...
  64. Gainskeeper is nice, but you CANNOT EXPORT your trades. Good luck if you ever want to leave them. So if you have multi-year trades and want to switch to another product, forget it. They own you, or you have to keep a whole set of duplicate records outside Gainskeeper. Then you ask you self, what are they thinking?
  65. Absolutely LOVE tradelog, but is there anyway to enter optionshouse data into it? I purchased but didn't realize some brokerage house data could not be entered...
  66. can you give u sa roadmap ,i like the idea of closing all positions at yearend
  67. Tradelog remains the best solution on the market for securities traders. It's the only solution that handles taxpayer compliance fully and properly. See http://www.greentradertax.com/trader-tax-center/accounting-solutions/

    Excerpt: Many traders and their tax preparers cut corners on trade accounting for securities. They seek to download broker-issued 1099-Bs directly into tax preparation software or to simply attach broker-issued profit and loss reports to tax returns. In the majority of cases, that shortcut solution will not work since taxpayers must calculate wash sales based on substantially identical positions across all brokerage accounts including IRAs, and the IRS only requires brokers to calculate wash sales based on identical positions per one account.
  68. Tradelog has a little "SURPRISE!" for us... if you have holdings for several years that pay dividends and those dividends are "re-invested" Tradelog now counts each one of these as a transaction. So for the first several years I could use the 200 transactions per year subscription. But when I upgraded to 2017 Tradelog, I now have so many transactions (without even making ONE Trade!) that I am now mandated to buy the 600 transaction version! I have probably only made 20 or 30 trades this year, all the other "transactions" were DRIPS from previous years! Eventually, if I stay with TradeLog, I will have to buy the 1500 transaction subscription whether I trade or not. I don't think they used to do this when they were with Armen Computing. I didn't have this issue in the past. It was only THIS YEAR that as soon as I created my "New Tax Year 2017" that immediately a pop up told me that I had too many transactions. So be aware, perhaps they can fix this, I hope they will, but this change seems intentional so I doubt they will.
  69. I forgot to add, TradeLog is a great program usually, and I really love using it, however now I am forced to buy the 600 transaction subscription even when I don't trade at all. This does not seem fair to me. any thoughts?