Home > Community Lounge > Religion and Spirituality > Discovery confirms biblical account of Jerusalem

Discovery confirms biblical account of Jerusalem

  1. Trump recognizes Jerusalem as Israel’s capital and lo, it came to pass, that an artifact, inscribed in Hebrew as “belonging to the governor of the city” (begging the obvious question which city - could be from any city) is resurrected.
    Praise be.

    Interesting how people make all these so called biblical artifacts appear so timely and conveniently.
     
  2. so your discounting what the experts are quoted as saying without any counter info?
    are you disputing what they said in the article?
    on the basis of what expertise are you disputing?
    your anti trump expertise or anti bible and hatred of christianity expertise?

     
  3. If you weren't such an angry , paranoid reactionary, you might be able to understand what I said.
     
  4. anger.. says the evangelical atheist who shits on every God or Jesus religion thread on ET... with lies and bullshit.




     
  5. Remove a single letter from your unintelligent response.....
    anger.. says the evangelical theist who shits on every God or Jesus religion thread on ET... with lies and bullshit.
    ...and considering your posting history, that's a lot of unintentional unconscious self-reflection you have going on there.

    Can you even offer a coherent reason why this artifact said to "support the Bible" can give any more legitimacy to it than London's King's Cross Station gives to Harry Potter.

    No, of course you can't.
     
  6. Hey,guys!There was a Carribean queen and now we are sharing the same crib!!!:D:D:D
     
  7. your asking me for proof? I was not supporting the article I was asking on what basis were you making your criticism.

    here was my first 2 lines to to you...


    "so your discounting what the experts are quoted as saying without any counter info?
    are you disputing what they said in the article? "

    am not angry, I was happy to point out you shit on almost every thread which mentions God or Jesus or the Bible.


     
  8. "A conservator shows a 2,700-year-old clay seal impression which archaeologists from the Israel Antiquities Authority say belonged to a biblical governor of Jerusalem and was unearthed in excavations in the Western Wall plaza in Jerusalem's Old City" (see picture at the link...)

    So Stu.. are you saying this expert is wrong based on some sort of expertise... or were you just trying to shit on this thread?


    https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/archaeology/1.695308

    If you were to say spend 5 minutes doing research you would know they even found a 2700 year old seal with Kings name on it what was probably the the very building it would have been used.


     
  9. If you did some research you'd notice your link is to a different seal, not the seal in the OP of this thread. In fact it is in an article a year earlier.:rolleyes:

    The current artifact happened to conveniently turn up along with a controversial political move. Which is of course what I was saying.

    Trump does something to play to Jewish politics and voila, as if by magic, yet another artifact pops up, supposedly in support of the Bible (which of course it is nothing of the kind), as if to offer up some form of rapprochement between two self-righteous, mutually self-aggrandizing religious beliefs .
    Yet in fact there is no more support here than there is for any other fictional book containing real place names.

    Of course you're not angry Jem...that's why you shouted a post while unwittingly making my point.
    I know, you're just trying to...
     
  10. I wouldn't have thought there was much reason to doubt the biblical statement that Jerusalem had a governor 2700 years ago, its not very contentious given the region's development by that period. That's about all this discovery proves.
     

  11. Not strictly true. The US years ago accepted Jerusalem as Israel's capital and that the US Embassy should be moved there. All Trump has done is confirm the Embassy will move to Jerusalem but he has waived the legislation to actually do this like all those before him since 1995. So he's done his usual - a lot of bombastic signalling to his supporters, but the situation remains the same after the dust settles.
     
  12. I agree.
    The thread title is bullshit and indeed as already pointed out, likewise anyone reading Harry Potter 2,700 years in the future wouldn't have much reason to doubt London had a particular rail station named King's Cross and a Mayor to go with it either.

    Well yes, but if you don't mind me saying, not strictly true to the point of pedantry.

    The point being , a religious artifact happens to pop up in the mix of what you correctly describe as bombastic signalling by Trump, to conveniently infuse historically dangerous factions with further religious nonsense by which a whole area has already been basically politically screwed by for generations.
    No doubt intended to assist some so called Christians to reinforce their mindsets with a few more deluded self-satisfying conclusions of their own.
     
  13. moronic assumption...
    the format carried over from the article I pasted. (i think I did remove the bold) you would understand the problem if you ever tried to back your rants up with links to realty.

    and you logic is shit too.
    you questioned the experts basis for asserting its provenance.
    my link explained some of their reasons.



     
  14. Hey, at the bazaar I bought the nails what Jesus were put up with. It is all proven...
     
  15. Jumping to the wrong conclusion, pasting a wrong link, as usual displays either you can't or won't understand what's being said.
    Or you're a complete idiot.
    Odds are firmly on the latter.
     
  16. there are only a few trolls willing to misrepresent what just happened a page or 2 prior.
    you are one of them.

    you said... my capitals were shouting showing I was angry.
    I explained the format carried over from the article I pasted.

    You jumped to wrong conclusion.... again.

     
  17. for those who don't wish to read stu's garbage a few pages back.



     
  18. Your whole post, not just text from your (wrong!) link, was in shout sized font.
    It is easy to adjust the font size.
    When you posted you must have seen it was in shout sized font.
    If you didn't want to shout, why did you shout.
    Why do you think when you shout people shouldn't think you are shouting.
    If it was the case you didn't mean to shout, how come instead of just explaining you didn't mean to shout, you made a ludicrous excuse and started name calling again.
    How come you think others are to blame for your own cock ups.

    The answer to all that ....
    because on these types of threads and similar ones, you always get so angry.:p


    btw as usual you've still done nothing to explain why you gave an incorrect link to the wrong artifact, proving the point there are many of these artifacts popping up a lot of the time and, why or how the claim made in the title of this thread is anything else but fake.
     
  19. go ahead cut and paste the article and then record how you change the fonts.
    if you can show me how to do it quickly and will follow your instructions going forward.

    If you are using a windows p.c. you may find it harder than you expect. but maybe not.
    stu you are the rabid evengelical atheist who gets upset at most every statement about God or Jesus.

    You not believing in God... is fine with me.
    In the end I see as it between you and God, not me and you. But if you post stuff that is wrong and I have the inclination, I will correct you. Not because I am angry but because I can.



     
  20. All in all, this is a pointless thread. The people who believe in god will continue to believe the bible is the ultimate truth even in the absence of archaeological evidence.

    The people who don't believe in god won't accept that archaeological evidence of one small biblical statement verifies the rest will continue to reject it as the ultimate truth.

    So all this thread does is flag up who believes and who doesn't. Which surely underpins my contention that what religious people really want is not to convert me to their religion but to justify a way to treat me differently.
     
  21. some genuinely wish you to understand faith.

     
  22. Look at the ribbon in the reply box. See the B and the T! symbols in there? They change font with a bunch of other stuff.
    You knew that right? No one can be that unknowledgeable about how to format a post when they have made nearly 28 thousand of them like you have.
    So how is it you've managed to format thousands of your posts?:D

    The whole of your post, even that which is typed and isn't paste, it is in shouting font.
    If you don't know how to change the font when posting stuff, you could have said at the time there is no intention to shout.
    Any normal, reasonable person who wasn't being angry in God and Jesus threads, who saw they were shouting , would have done either of those things.

    But of course non of this changes how you linked it to another artifact entirely, which in itself, made the point for me!
    These artifacts are two a penny. They don't confirm anything about biblical accounts, apart from confirming that fiction can contain real place names.

    Take your own responsibility for getting angry at most every statement made about God or Jesus you don't like. You can't pass that anger onto to me as if it's my fault.

    Well that's the thing isn't it. You don't correct, you just get angry.

    I ask you to explain something specifically, to correct something, like the false claim in the thread title but all you can really do is immediately get angry and start name calling.

    This short thread alone bears testament to your anger and as usual, you still haven't explained how the claim in the thread title is not false.

    If you are one of those some, who wish others to genuinely understand religious faith, then clearly, religious faith is to be angry.
     

  23. But the believer doesn't need evidence, in fact looking for evidence is a statement of non-belief.

    And finding the evidence of a physical artefact from the same age as that described in the bible doesn't make someone become a believer in all the rest of the stuff that's in the bible.

    Like I said, this is all pointless.
     
  24. Can you believe he's a Sunday school teacher? "Oh! What a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive".
     
  25. shouting is using capitals... your entire premise is based on a lie.

    By definition shouting is using all capitals. I will show you an example below in my summary.

    2. the rest of your post is more lies and misrepresentations.
    you disputed the provenance of the seal.

    I explained that the experts had found plenty of other similar seals some of them apparently found on the site of the former administrative office in jerusalem where the seals would have been applied.

    Summary...
    if you wish to dispute the provenance or the experts methods....

    USE YOUR BRAINS NOT YOUR BULLSHIT AND LINK TO SOME PROOF.

    SHOUTING IS WHEN YOU USE ALL CAPS

    see the link below...


    https://www.newstatesman.com/sci-tech/2014/04/how-capital-letters-became-internet-code-shouting

     
  26. some believers do need evidence before they begin to believe. I know some.

    I am not saying you should believe anything because of a seal found in jerusalem.
    To me that seal is just one tiny (almost inconsequential) piece of evidence showing that at least some of the bible is consistent with history. If you have been observing over the last few decades the pendulum is starting to swing back. For a while many were arguing that almost nothing in the bible is consistent with historical fact. However, lately more and more pieces of evidence are showing that it is.

    But, again... that is not the point of faith.

    I think the point is that the God of the old Testament is the God of Abraham Issac and Jacob and that the point of the old testament is that you can know who the real God is because he keeps his promises. I believe that have come about that understanding by study and faith. (if you desire it)


     
  27. you bring up personal stuff all the time but you don't always get it correct, if I recall properly.

    do I know you?

     
  28. Stu you can possibly be right since artifacts are stolen all the time, but it still is possible that the artifact was recently dug up since new artifacts are constantly being discovered.
     
  29. I accept your apology. oops I mean I accept your apology.

    Of course by posting in the largest font size possible, not adjusting it and lying about not knowing how to, the angry tone and the name calling, you mean to communicate no emphasis.

    I did no such thing.
    There is no reason to doubt that seal is 2,700 years old.
    What I dispute and what any rational person would dispute is the thread's title, claiming the seal "confirms [a] biblical account of Jerusalem". It does no such thing and it is perfectly clear why it doesn't.
     
  30. I agree, it may well have been recently dug up though there is no real mention of when it was found. I don't see that is the issue anyway.

    Because artifacts are dug up with names or references on them, doesn't help in any way confirm a biblical account of Jerusalem as the thread title falsely claims.

    It just means works of fiction like the Bible have for a very long time, contained references to place names. Story books are not consistent with history just because they mention the name of an actual town or city.

    So when a seal pops up in that place, it doesn't do anything to confirm biblical accounts. In this case all it does is confirm seals were made to denote a 'governor of Jerusalem'.

    It is interesting to note similar seals from the same period have been found with Bethlehem inscribed on them. Funny how those were not "found" at the time Trump sounded off about Jerusalem.
     
  31. Stu: i say, having a filter (on) is the best approach for fear of hurting other peoples feelings. I find that it is best to show a certain level of respect towards other peoples beliefs, even when they conflict with our own. I do agree with you that the Media mongers usually have an agenda, but we have to remember that the writers of these report are not always the smartest of people. Cheers*
     
  32. The obligation is to respect the right for anyone to hold a belief. It is not the obligation to respect the belief anyone holds.

    I would suggest there is nothing more likely to hurt other peoples feelings than the denial of free and open criticism of belief and ideas.
    And don't forget, religious beliefs have done a fair share of hurting peoples feelings and worse.
     
  33. Yes but without religion, one might also consider the possibility that things would be much worse today. But since i cant make a wish and have us go back in time to do over again, we can just learn from our past mistakes.
     
  34. you are a lying ass troll.

    you realize now i was not shouting as you claimed so you make up more shit about fonts.
    Then you lie about whether I knew that the "T" could change font sizes. I was looking for paragraph controls. T to me means type of font you use not sizes.

    Then you distort my argument about the provenance of the seal to make it look like you had a legit argument. Look up the word provenance which I used twice.

    you are 100 percent troll.






     
  35. :D

    Seriously!? What are you 5 ?
    Now you know how to change font size. You're welcome. You could have just said thanks.

    Or you could have just said when you made the post that you don't mean to convey any shout or other emphasis by posting words directed to me in the largest possible f'kn font size, like any normal non angry person would.

    I never disputed the provenance. You said I did. You lied. Your distortion. Simple.
    In any case provenance has little if anything to do with the false claim made in the thread title :rolleyes:
     
  36. Indeed, yet on the other hand without religion one might also consider the possibility that things would be much better today. Who knows.

    Nevertheless, one thing which does seem to have been learned, since the Enlightenment and although very slowly, is that it is far better on the whole for everyone and less dangerous when false claims pervading throughout religion and its corresponding beliefs are question challenged and disputed.
     
  37. Come-come now Stu, are you mixing up religious ideas here? From where i sit, atheists pursuit of power is documented throughout history. Atheists are the ruot of all evil on this planet and there is much evidence of that. Death, violence and poverty is associated with atheist-ism and without religion it would have been worse.

    Atheists continue to be in control today and things are not better Stu.

    I do enjoy our talks though Stu.:)
     
  38. Religion is an insult to human dignity.
    With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things.
    But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. Steven Weinberg
     
  39. not disputing the provenance? why do you lie?

    here was your first post...


    here was part of your your second to which I told you there were other similar seals found in spots in Jerusalem and some were found in what they believe were the administrative offices.

    stu said.
    "Can you even offer a coherent reason why this artifact said to "support the Bible" can give any more legitimacy to it than London's King's Cross Station gives to Harry Potter.

    No, of course you can't."

    So what now? Is you next post going to be word games? Ar you going to say you were not disputing you were just hinting that the seals could be from any city.
     
  40. Since your at a loss for your own words, If the great majority of the World have it, why would we listen to the minority? :D

    Sadly the minority continue to undermine the majority.
     
  41. Sadly that's an easy answer.
     
  42. as the great majority once said to the minority opposing slavery.
     
  43. I have not disputed the seal 's 2,700 year old provenance or that it could not have "belonged to the governor of the city". That is after all what archeologists are reported to have said.

    However the seal itself does not appear nor is said to be inscribed with any city name or particular governor. Though going by the information available, it's reasonable to accept it is a city seal, but that does not mean it is with certainty a seal belonging to the "city of Jerusalem" just because archeologists confirm it was found in Jerusalem. In contrast, ancient seals have been found in Jerusalem with Bethlehem on them. So there really isn't anything to say this seal, with no place or governor name on it, belongs to somewhere else. Which as I said begs a question.

    Archeologists within the Israel Antiquities Authority often warn about jumping to conclusions with such things. Not all who work there apparently heed that advice. Remembering also how it was unveiled conveniently at a time when a highly controversial political statement had just been made, it wouldn't be the first time false connections were wrongly attached to such artifacts.

    Even if it is assumed this seal did belong to the "city of Jerusalem" (it would have been the city of Shalem 2700 years ago), there have been hundreds if not thousands of artifacts purported to have given credence to biblical narratives over time, yet none of them in the end, after all the religious rhetoric has calmed down, ever had enough provenance or credence or historical evidence or factual value to support the Bible as claimed. No more than finding porridge supports the Three Bears in a different fairy tale.
    There have been governors of Jerusalem and Judah throughout history. It really should come as no surprise that works of fiction, like the Bible, would include governors in their stories.

    You are religious and religious belief is all about clutching at straws while jumping to false claims. So you see everything to the contrary as a lie.
    Another reason why religion is indeed an insult to human dignity.
     
  44. Sadly your off topic, but that's Ok. Enjoy your darkness, I must move on. By-by:)
     
  45. what a sad piece of sophistry from your first post to this one.
    even the way your worded your artifacts claim manifests your sophistry.

    No artifacts support the bible as claimed?

    You could not be talking about artifacts talking about cities that were lost to history which have been found.

    So your "as claimed" statement must secretly be a rather narrow definition of what the bible claims.



     
  46. Yes, you were indeed very much off topic. But since you "do enjoy our talks", I thought it only polite to respond.

    bye bye. Better luck next time.:)
     
  47. Translation:
    "dammit you got me there"

    No none. No better than the seal in this thread does. Which is not at all.