counter trending in the stock index futures

Discussion in 'Journals' started by diversions, Mar 28, 2009.

  1. counter trending IN THE STOCK INDEX FUTURS



    I do 2 things that are considered uber dumb around here

    1

    All I do is look for counter trend plays

    2
    My trading is completely indicator based.
    I am swimming In various oscillators and time frames



    3
    My problems are
    1
    I cant hold onto profits. I don’t get that spotting the high and low of the day following a furious run is a valuable skill and should be enough for one to make a living -check out the pic it is a example of a typical day for me. I catch the turns and still lose
    Yet I am struggling I have only 4 k in my account an I feel like I will blow it real soon

    I lost maybe 40 k an will tell you that my determination to trade for a living has been one of the more painful things I have encountered in my life


    2
    I am in a maddening quest for the Holy Grail and I can’t stop looking for smarter and smarter ways to spot support and resistance
    (one of the great tragedies in my life was reading the mark Weinstein interview in market wizards. I feel that the markets r as deep as the dark night and one can always learn.
    Problem is the game is about making money not the art of it)

    I resolve to
    1
    give up methodology refinement
    2
    Let my profits run
    With this journal I hope to accomplish these. I will also happily share my entrys with
    those interested over time and my reasoning (I am still paranoid about that)


    Ok folks I await your zingers, hopefully I will bump into some worth while people here
     
  2. i will try to post it again see if it works
     
  3. if you feel like you are going to lose your 4k then it is likely you will lose your 4k. I would suggest going back to demo and/or just taking a break and coming back with a relaxed perspective
     
  4. NoDoji

    NoDoji

    Hey Div,

    I'm a counter trend equities trader about to get my futures demo account set up soon, and would like to trade ES the same way. Looking forward to your journal.

    I sent you a PM.

    NoD
     
  5. Impression of dejà vu...?

    With all due respect, you want to win a 10k marathon running backwards with one leg.

    Making one's way in the futures world with 4k requires 1) a sound strategy that gives you an edge and 2) discipline to execute it. From your initial post, it seems you lack both of them. You are very likely to blow your account and it seems you already know that fact... so if you really want to achieve success, perhaps you should look to fix your needs and emotional drivers, make sure you have a clear written strategy (with sound exit rules) before you get back into the arena.

    If you feel my comment is inappropriate in your journal, I'll ask the mods to remove it.

    That being said, I wish you good luck and good trading.
     
  6. The system isn't the biggest problem. It's your psychology. You are trading with scared money. 4k isn't enough to make money with in futures. You have to make complete peace with the money you trade with may be lost and never come back. Can you do that? If so maybe you can make money. If you can't stop now you won't succeed at your current rate.

    To your system. Counter trend is generally higher risk so they payoff has to be higher reward when successful. If you can't hold on for the long dollar then stop trading counter trend. A lot of counter trend players that I have talked with scale in. You can't do that with 4k.

    Finally, I have heard different stats, but the overall point is true IMO. The System is 10-20%, money management and psychology are the remaining 2 parts, with psych playing the biggest part.

    Traders that don't need the money make the most in trading. Ppl that have to pay their bills from profits lose. The more you think about the money the less you think about just trading your plan and inevitably you lose.

    Post edit: It was a bit difficult to read your first post, I re-read it, makes more sense. I am going to leave my post in that it helps someone. Good luck on your changes.
     
  7. I understand the painful situation you are in. From you post, I do not see how you are in the right mind to command in this tough business.

    Save your 4k and use it as practice for trading equities, trading with only 100 shares for example to test out your strategy, test your discipline in exercising stops (use a trading platform that offers bracket orders) etc. I am afraid you will be forever chasing after the next holy grail, as there are perhaps thousands of ways to make money, you just need to find one you find most comfortable with and stick with it.

    There are some fairly new traders on ET like Geez and NoDoji and they are generous enough to share details of their trades. I suggest you check out their threads. It will give you hope and confidence. You said you have problem in letting profit run, what about setting a profit target small first (like 40cents), which will make it easy to let "run", and a tight stop (like 20cents), and go from there? (Essentially Geez's style! Geez if you don't mind)

    Now cheer up. You can do it.

    OC
     
  8. KingZardoz

    “
    If you feel like you are going to lose your 4k then it is likely you will lose your 4k. I would suggest going back to demo and/or just taking a break and coming back with a relaxed perspective”


    That is sensible problem is I am obsessed with getting my trading down

    So I can deal with things that really interest me in this life

    I went into this with a clear head.

    I made some money in the real world a few years back and said I can now afford

    To study trading and be rid bull shit business for life

    dandxg

    “
    The system isn't the biggest problem. It's your psychology. You are trading with scared money..”


    I am struggling true but things are not dire the money is realy scared

    lurefo


    “make sure you have a clear written strategy (with sound exit rules) before you get back into the arena.

    If you feel my comment is inappropriate in your journal, I'll ask the mods to remove it.

    That being said, I wish you good luck and good trading”





    Thanks

    I will pay heed to your words about a simple exit that must be adhered too

    I don’t mind you expressing your bleak out look on my prospects you r being honest not condescending


    OptionsCharm



    “Now cheer up. You can do it”.

    OC


    Thanks for you advise and support
     
  9. Here's some suggestions:
    1) Let us know your exit rules (which you need to have) for your futures trading. If you don't know what they are, then I suggest that might be a problem that causes you to lose more than you should. Stops are a necessity, no matter what anyone says. No exceptions. Everyone will lose on a futures trade sooner or later. (Usually, of course, it happens fairly quickly) Money management is a key to success in any kind of investing or trading. You would like to win at least 50% of the time, but you MUST make sure that when you lose, you still have your shirt to keep at it.

    2) I also suggest more capital. You are forced to trade out before the end of the day with the amount of money you are working with. This adds additional pressure for profits now, and won't help. If you have say $8,000 and only trade one contract, you can hold longer without major concerns.

    3) What indicators are you using? What % of your trades are winners? This will help us analyze your process and how to repair your strategies. Sometimes, too many indicators just give you one thing---confusion!!
     
  10. My exit rule will be very simple
    5 atr from the chart I took my trade of
    I intend to post my entry and target when I actually make the trade –not the same minute I am not trying to prove anything but with in minutes.
    I will move stop to brake even after the market moves in my direction some.
    My stop lose will happen as soon as market moves past most recent high or low
    I give it some room because to often it nips past then just bounces back- but it is as tight a stop as can be
    Basically I will keep getting nipped until I hit a nice one
    My balance is 4429 as of now – I think I will survive
     
    #10     Mar 30, 2009