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Bitcoin Price Thread

  1. I bought some on the way up($5300, $6K, $7K, $8K). Wished I had bought more. Now I'm hesitant to buy more even though I'm sure it will go to $10K soon.. Oh well. But they were all small buys. Less than 10% of my total portfolio allocation.

  2. These are the types of people buying/HODLing this thing.
  3. Hello trader99,

    I completely understand. I did the same, but we see what happens. Let it go.
  4. Good move Magna. Let's hope everything obliges.
  5. I noticed the same thing last night while looking on Twitter, in the normal trading world these type of people are gonna get so F’d. Maybe btc is different.
  6. This is like Thanksgiving 1999 when every one bought internet stocks after talking about it over the turkey.
  7. All these Thanksgiving Bitcoin rookies are making a big mistake....looking for ar least a 25% drop in the coming weeks!!!! Let's see how quick they learn how to sell when it's dropping 10x quicker

  8. [​IMG]
  9. Many pre-Thanksgiving rookies have been laughing all the way to the bank.

    Buy the dips has been working for years. Ya notice?

    I'm waiting for all the drops and crashes calls to end as one of many signs the top is finally upon us.

  10. The ratio of bulls to bears in Bitcoin is probably 10000 to 1
  11. Hello algofy,

    Bitcoin is slower paced and trends well. Sort of like NQ, but slower. Not alot of choppy and can trade it 24 hours a day. Manage the risk and reward, and all will be fine. Sucks Ninjatrader doesn't support cryptocurrecncy market data feed yet or I been automating something for it. It trends well.
  12. Simple...are you trading it manually or just watching it?
  13. Hello algofy,

    I am trading it manually. I did not manually back test it, but I need to just being lazy. I took a day trading swing strategy I used in the past and just went for it. I just trail the winner by a $100 bucks and let it go. The margins are low to enter that market and can trade 24 hours a day.
  14. Besides your wild guess is there a point?
  15. When you say Margin, what exchange are you trading on? Are you getting leverage or just buying partial coins?
  16. LOL. Please tell me you are joking
  17. Hello algofy,

    I am using the cryptocurrecncy market and using jafx as my broker. Yes, I am buying and selling partial coins. lol, I can't afford buy one coin. I trade the BTC/USD market.
  18. Found this trending on TWTR.

    Logarithmic regression created in 2014 predicted predicted 10K by 22 November 2017. 100k by July 2021.

  19. $9700! I wished i bought more! Oh well. Just ride with what I got so far... I'm sure it will continue to go higher and I wished I bought more at these "high" prices... haha

  20. Me too. Me too. Ugghhhh. But oh well. I can't buy for long term at these prices.

  21. People are piling in this one sided trade...what I'm saying is that there are plenty of bulls compared to bears in the cryptocurrency market and that when the shift changes all those late into the game as usual will suffer heavy monetary losses....we know this already... However most will play the odds because of the so called zero risk factor of no risk all reward!!! Seems like no matter when you buy it goes up but that will change very soon.

  22. When it's under $6000 are you going to wish you bought more???

  23. Don't know how accurate that is but there are quite a bit of shorts blowing up.
  24. WOW, that means someone is about to lose a bunch of money.

    That seems like alot of money.
  25. An Elite Trader Exclusive. Pass it on.

  26. Depends on his entry price. If it was during the last dip...
  27. what could possibly go wrong ................

    btc 20171127.jpg
  28. to be fair, on a log scale now..

    btc 20171127 log.jpg
  29. I do have an exit plan. I trade you know. I'm not going to see it ride up then down like a lot of people I know who went through the dotcom boom and bust. Investors tend to hold forever. I'm a trader. But I'm NOT daytrading BTC. At least not yet. But this allocation is for longer term hold. I think it will go way beyond 10K. People are still on the sidelines and the herd is coming..

    I don't where it will stop. And I'll most likely miss the top. That's OK. But I will in no uncertain circumstances let it fall all the way back and given up all the open profits. Trader mentality.
  30. I actually sold my bitcoins yesterday. Then i realised I had made a mistake. So i bought them back and paid 1.5% more than what i sold them for.

    Oh well.
  31. jafx...sounds dodgy as fuck mate.
  32. Hello Visaria,

    Thank you and yes I know!! I just found out last night they was not regulated. So bitcoin redrawn back to Coinbase and i will sign up at simplefx as my broker.

    Who are you using as your broker for cryptocurrecncy market?

  33. Visaria,

    who is your broker?
  34. Bitcoin is up 50% for November adding $1000 just alone in the last week.....with those Ludacris numbers I hope no one gets surprised when it drops a 1/3 in a few days.....

    People have no idea how bubblicious these cryptocurrencies are ...the absolute mentality at this very second is that Bitcoin cannot drop...will be interesting to see how the systems handle all the rapid sell orders when it's in free fall...
  35. It doesnt drop because its a scam, manipulated by deep pockets.

    How much of the total trading in btc is actually commerce? 10% 5% 1%?

    I suspect its near .01%
  36. As well as the stock market. You wont be able to sell until 50% or more is gone
  37. Hello S2007S,

    How do you know it will drop 1/3 in a few days? Do you have some proof of this please?
  38. He probably checked the SQ daily chart. It is a preview how it is all going to end...
  39. BTC is a store of wealth...

    Because a bald headed guy on cnbc says so

  40. :p

    They will make up any excuse to keep this bubble inflated !!

    If Bitcoin was still trading in the nickels and quarters it was trading at in 2009 no one would have ever cared for it...there would be no talk about it and the other 1400+ cryptocurrencies would not exist....because there is an almost $10000 price on each magical fairytale coin, everyone is going crazy to own it and make up these ideas that it's a storage of wealth.....

  41. I didn't say it was going to drop a 1/3 in a few days I said when the free fall comes it won't take long to shave a 1/3 of value off Bitcoin in less than a week!
  42. Bitcoin lays waste to a year’s worth of ‘bubble’ calls on its way to new highs


    "You, a Wall St trader: spent years in school learning minutia of finance, 10 years of 100 hour work weeks, never see family, super excited about your 10% returns this year

    Me, a Bitcoiner: read some books, shitposted on Twitter, ate some steaks, enjoying 900% returns this year"

    LMAO :D
  43. The bigger they are the harder they fall. This thing is getting too big too fast on nothing but speculation of higher and higher prices. And the only thing that can sustain these prices will be more and more speculation. Everything that is bought must eventually be sold. People do not live forever.
  44. This is great! Bitcoin is only at $160B currently (minus all the "lost coins"), so when it hits 10% valuation of all the mined gold and really kick into gear, I think the naysayers may finally respect bitcoin :D

    HODL! :fistbump:
  45. Do people even know what they are buying?

    This looks eerily similar to the tulip bulb mania of 1637 (according to the accounts). At the peak, one bulb of tulip was the yearly wage of 10 people! Not sure what a real 'bitcoin' is worth, but maybe when it gets to the yearly wage of 10 labourers (or about 250K) we will peak - so there is much room left if you are long :)

    Just remember when the run for exits starts, you won't be fast enough!

    Its stunning the powers that be have allowed this to go on this long. Blockchain technology - yes great. But bitcoin as a store of value - no way: no store of value rises 100-fold in a couple of years.
  46. Now why didn't I think of that. Duh.

    Tulip mania on the brain is what all the naysayers have. Meanwhile Bitcoin keeps going and going. WhoTF cares why.

    Does anyone trade anymore or just whinnnnnnnnnnnne? :banghead: :sneaky:
  47. neke! Big fan of your Survival journals for many years.

    Yes, many Bitcoin hodlers know what Bitcoin is about and we wish all the critics would at least know or take the time to study it before jumping into conclusion it's Tulip bubble, etc. It's too much to ask, though, so we'll keep bantering at each other on this forum whilst Bitcoin does what it does, which is go up in price :sneaky:
  48. gdax/coinbase
  49. Same then for every currency out there...how much of the $4 trillion a day traded in currencies is commerce?
  50. I had to look this up. Apparently it means "hold". o_O
  51. They just can't help themselves pointing out the same pluses and minuses, for the most part, every other major currency has - yet believe are unique to Bitcoin.
  52. yeah, but just to clarify, i don't think bitcoin is a currency.

    i dont know wtf it is.
  53. Uh, I'd say 95% of it
  54. I'm starting to view other coins as shares moreso than currency. Take coindesk for instance, they offer a service and take a fee in turn. When they launch their ICO, you become an unregulated part owner of the company without having to go through the SEC.

    One may argue that fake money is hardly an assurance of wealth, but if it's your means of capital funding, it behooves the company to do everything possible to keep the value of their coin high. Now, the added advantage is the fungibility of trading these share-like instruments from different start ups without cashing out and taking a capital gains hit.

    I see the ability to use as currency almost secondary now, but it's an added plus.

    I suppose Bitcoin is a different animal as no company launched it and it's just a store of wealth. A curiosity that people want to posses much like shiny jewelry. It's all about perception, and until that changes, I don't see Bitcoin coming down.

  55. Do they know what they are buying? Maybe the geeks and nerds who understand the platform and how the technology works which is probably less than 1% of Bitcoin owners....all the others see is price action and media hype behind each thousand dollar jump in Bitcoin...could it go higher? Sure it can...with bubbles anything and everything is possible but when the drop comes it's going to be significant.....
  56. Let's say you did buy in Bitcoin earlier this year and some how gained 700-900% of your initial investment how much more greedy can you be to expect more Ludacris returns? All huge bubbles come to an end....it's up 50% alone in November and $1000 in the last week how much more do you want out of something that is all speculation....50% in ONE single month.... do you have any idea how long it takes to achieve a 50% return in the s&p and most bitcoiners got that in one month and want more...
  57. Funny how gold at $1800+ some years back was considering outrageous, overvalued and taking everyone by surprise, but some fairytale magical coin at close to $10000 is receiving praise and honor with people jumping buying it up with not an ounce of clue of what it is that they are buying.
  58. I think the price of $10,000 for each bitcoin is good, but it would be even better when it goes to $50,000 price for each bitcoin and in a reasonable time, say by the end of the year 2018...

  59. Well since FX trading is $5+ trillion (with a "T") daily that means you believe $100 trillion corporate daily trade flow happens, huh?

    And approx $265 TRILLION yearly. Bada bing.
  60. Hello,

    I don't know what bitcoin is and I really don't care and neither should you. Alllll that matter is making money. Buy low and sell high. Or vice versa.

    Not sure what all the talk about is about. Just buy and hold or just trade it like me. I don't need to know what it is and news articles.
  61. It kills you doesn't it. You'll get it someday.
  62. Wow! what should I say? Check out stocks like Xcelera (XLA) and e-toys in year 2000 just before the bubble bust - and what they are now. At least people knew what those companies generally did (or claimed to do). Never thought that kind of gold rush would happen again in my trading life-time. This time, its chosen a different venue, not the stock market.
  63. You really are simple .

  64. fa660try. what else to explain it?

  65. That escalated quickly :confused:

    The question we should all be asking is if the price of each Bitcoin will hit $10,000 tonight on GDAX? Or will we have to wait another day? :banghead:

  66. Etoys haha....the good old days where any and all dot com stocks moved just because they were an internet stock ....reminds me of the other 1400 cryptocurrencies that are nothing but speculation and hype....they can create an ICO overnight with some explanation that it does this and that and people still buy into it....these cryptocurrency enthusiasts are going to witness one heck of a ride....the predictions that the overall cryptocurrency market will be worth several trillions next year has everyone buying any and all cryptocurrency....

  67. After a 50% one month increase and a $1000 added to bitcoin in one week you sure are greedy for $10000, is 50% profit in 30 days not enough? Wow, the bitcoin greed is through the roof .....
  68. Greedy? lol, no need to be judgmental, it's just an investment asset, not personal.

    I'm not going anywhere even if it hits $10,000 or $20,000. I've been holding for a while now, and held through the bitcoin bear market (you wouldn't know how it felt since you're only angry when Bitcoin goes up, not when it goes down). It went from a high of $1200 to less than $200.

    I have a planned spending of over $8,000 worth of btc's tonight. Damn, it's less than 1 bitcoin. Feels awesome :)
  69. Here you go bitcoin ultra bulls....forget stocks...here is a free ticket to make 4X your money in 1 short year!!!

    Just keep in mind when you are STARTING a $500 million dollar cryptocurrency fund of course you will talk up cryptocurrency and bitcoin in general....

    Bitcoin could 'easily' reach $40,000 by the end of 2018, hedge fund legend Novogratz says

    • "Bitcoin could be at $40,000 at the end of 2018. It easily could," Michael Novogratz says on CNBC's "Fast Money."
    • "Ethereum, which I think just touched $500 or is getting close, could be triple where it is as well," adds Novogratz,formerly a macro hedge fund manager at Fortress Investment Group.
    • But Novogratz doesn't recommend retail investors put any more than 1 to 3 percent of their net worth in cryptocurrencies, or wealthier investors to put more than 5 to 10 percent.
  70. We?
  71. We = the ones who are interested in the Bitcoin price since it's the title of the thread "Bitcoin Price Thread" lmao
  72. Dunno man, I would never refer to waiting for a price as , "we" .

    Kinda, you know, lame , fanboyish
  73. Hodl is shorthand for hold on for dear life
  74. Hi @neke,
    I'm was a big fan of your Survival journals, read all your posts and a pity that your stopped. How is it going now?
    At that time I compared my P&L with yours and although we trade differently we matched more or less. Until I focused my attention more to crypto (and made huge profits). Sorry I should have posted about that in your threads, but I didn't as it was off context.

    Yes, neke. Most do indeed know very well what they are buying. The thing is: its not that easy to buy and hold coins, there is a barrier in time (opening accounts) and knowledge (learning how to handle coins safely). So people search and read and encounter lots of naysayers and tulip trolls as well. Still if people get intrigued in the technology and begin to understand its implications, they jump the barrier and buy with an understanding. By the way: this year's jump is not caused by Joe public, but by big money managers and Hedgefunds, who do their due diligence.

    I'm sure if you are open to learn, you will understand why this new asset class is so hot. And why it's a great product to trade with it's huge volatility and volume (yesterday $13 billion a day).

    And no: a blockchain alone doesn't work without incentives. But you will understand that later.
  75. It's not centralised....you can shut down somewhere like China did....doesnt affect anywhere else.
  76. Um no....virtually all currency trading is speculation.
  77. Will be curious to see the impact of the new futures contracts on BTC.... see what happens when there are shorts in the market place.
  78. CME talking Bitcoin right now -

  79. So do consider yourselves the grand high exalted final arbiter of how much profit everybody else should make on any trade - bitcoin or otherwise?

    Or why just bitcoin?
  80. Shorts like ummm ...... Bill Ackman yuck, yuck.
  81. Omg...the Shorts are Coming!
  82. Futures will add liquidity to the BTC market. Could help or hurt prices. We'll just have to see.
  83. Agree.

    But then it depends on what one defines as helps/hurts?

    Up/down doesn't matter to me.
  84. "Helps" = moves price higher, faster
    "Hurts" = suppresses price

    Futures will make it easier to buy and sell.
  85. Depends ............ on whether one is long or

    short - helps = price lower - hurts = price higher
  86. So... you're of the view that convention wisdom of "helps" is to knock prices lower... and to "hurt" is to spur prices higher? That's just silly.
  87. No you are silly. Didn't your mommy tell you to look both ways ... when you decide to place a trade?

    Or are you a long only trader? o_O
  88. Most people would view the notion of "help" to be "supporting, uplifting". You're making a counter argument. You've turned this into an argument of semantics. WTF is wrong with you?
  89. If anyone new on here is thinking of getting in at $10000 a magical coin just wait a bit...you'll be glad you did.....
  90. It will be interesting to see how the futures will be able to short the quantity needed when most of the circulating bitcoin are not on exchanges.
  91. "Shorting the quantity needed" won't be an issue. The CME will not handle BTC itself. The future contract is based upon a cash index of the BTC price.
  92. And now the incoming Fed Chair... everyone's talking cryptos...

  93. futures on btc is like selling life insurance on mickey mouse

  94. GermanyHyperChart.jpg

    $10,000 is early if this is a hyperinflation event.
  95. I'm sorry. I mistakenly thought I was discussing this with a TRADER. WTF is right. Did I hurt your feelings?
  96. Enough of your silliness. I don't suffer fools gladly. ON IGNORE!!
  97. Stocks ...real estate...rent...price of goods and services....healthcare premiums....art.... cryptocurrency.... education....food prices....
    You name it and it's surging....the entire world is in one big fat gigantic bubble.......

    Thank you fed for pumping up the markets with trillions and trillions and trillions of dollars just so that a simple recession and a normal economic cycle couldn't take place on your watch.....I'm really pondering on how this is all going to end....

  98. Maybe with people buying bitcoin if they believe there won' be more than 21 M issued....
  99. Bitcoin Fund Short Interest at 2.48% Suggests No Crypto Top Yet

    (Bloomberg) -- Bitcoin's eye-watering advance this year may not be near its end, if short interest in an ETF-like fund invested in the cryptocurrency is a guide.

    Only 2.5% of the shares in the Bitcoin Investment Trust are shorted, according to data from S3 Partners. And while it costs 7.6% a day to borrow shares for shorting, that's well below 55% in early June.

  100. I find it interesting that there can only be 21 million mined in the next decades to come, however what if they were to increase supply.....uhhh ohhhh....and not many people know this, but there are millions of magical coins that have disappeared ...just like that gone foreverrrrrrrrrr

  101. How does the average investor short Bitcoin...I have read up on it and the complexity of trying to short it makes it impossible.....one etf I know that's extremely dangerous I tried to short but couldn't do so....was only trying to short a tiny bit but the trade would not go through
  102. Lost coins (or rather lost keys) reduces the total in circulation. So as long as you do not lose your own that is beneficial to you.

    Who is "they" to decide to increase supply. Its inbuilt to the system.

    Was easy for me to buy a few bitcoin on the nordic OMX market a couple of months ago. Just guessed it was going to zero or much higher as it becomes easier for more people to buy via normal brokers, etfs, futures etc in rest of world.
  103. I just bought name brand soup for 35c a can

    Food prices?
  104. You just suffer.
  105. “The internet is going to be one of the major forces for reducing the role of government. The one thing that’s missing, but that will soon be developed, is a reliable e-cash: a method whereby on the internet you can transfer funds from A to B without A knowing B or B knowing A -- the way in which I can take a $20 bill and hand it over to you, and there's no record of where it came from.”

    – 06/21/99
    Milton Friedman
  106. LOL one bitcoin could buy you 28,571 of them currently.
  107. That is a wonderful prediction of Paypal.
  108. not really, paypal knows both sides.

    and was that really a prediction. more like he predicted the sun would rise
  109. But the sender doesn't. The blockchain also knows both sides. :)
  110. I saw references that there will be shorting as part of hedging position in futures. Let me look for it...
  111. the paypal sender doesn't know what? where the payee ate lunch?
  112. Except also ... the amount allowed to be transfered is not unlimited. And that minor point about not reducing gubmint's role. Other than that yes.

  113. I can see China relegalizing BTC again but not the alts. Apparently the Chinese are using p2p apps to buy BTC while the former exchange operators have been applying for licensing offshore to reboot.
  114. Except Paypal holds your money and their good faith allows you to retrieve it on demand. Paypal is the C in that prediction.
  115. Try to transfer 2 billion dollars with bitcoin...
  116. If Gates, Buffett or Bezos adopts me I will. Until then I can swing +10k with BTC if I care to. And also generate capital gains. Obviously not possible at all with paypal.
  117. I might have misunderstood the "borrow" comment at 4.5 minute mark of the video to mean shorting bitcoin...

  118. Some guy was trying to pitch me a bitcoin MLM, guaranteeing 1% a day last weekend at this bar while watching football. Bitcoin MLM ??? Anyone come across this?

  119. :D

    Here are some general questions that can "give away" an Amway distributor:

    Has an old friend from high school called you recently and asked to meet with you for no particular reason or for a "vague" reason?

    Does someone want to just have lunch with you about a "business opportunity?"

    Does someone in your church that you never had lunch with before all of a sudden wants to take you to lunch?

    Is there a group of people in your church who all sit together, dress the same way, and after church stand together talking, but every once in a while their group seems to grow?

    Is there an "exclusive" group of people in your company that always goes to lunch together, yet is growing?

    Are you tempted to call a number that is on a "tear-off notice" on a public bulletin board at the post office, grocery store, or restaurant?

    Does a fellow employee that you never talk to suddenly want to meet with you?

    Have you been invited to a meeting to look at "a business opportunity" but the details have not been explained to your satisfaction?

    Does an acquaintance strongly want to get you involved with a business that is "really going places, but you have to get it in on it now or you'll miss out?"

    "Do you know anyone who might be interested in making a couple-extra of thousand dollars a month working 8 to 10 hours a week?"
  120. $10,000/bitcoin just hit on GDAX (Coinbase). Yay.
  121. Ding . ding.. ding..

    now what ? dash or crash ?
  122. My guess is $11,000+ by this weekend.
  123. And my guess at least that many wrong as hell naysayer posts by the weekend as well. :D
  124. BTW the supply is not just 21 million , they have added another 21 million and put a different label on them = Bitcoin cash not to mention Bitcoin gold as well , and they did that in an eye blink . It's all bs it's just a bubble for a useless item , it will take years though to settle down .
  125. It looks like I'm going to be technically correct of bitcoin being over $11,000 but it's making a run for it right now. Already {update-edit} over $10,200 :cool:
  126. We started from the bottom, now we here....

    Picked up some stellar again (on IBM payment deal) and some litecoin (new Asics coming out in December)
  127. look at the charts of bitcoin and SKF. something similar. either looking forward or backward. a lot of fun ahead. [​IMG][​IMG] bitcoin.jpg and SKF
  128. 10k the easiest call ever. Congrats to all.

    See you in Tahiti
  129. You finally buy some?
  130. My position was a bit smaller than a Tahiti trip, clearly I should have been more aggressive. I'm going to have a great sitdown dinner at Applebee's though!


    Kidding of course. I am up enough to cover the Tahiti flight at least. Just maybe not the hotel.
  131. One day to go from 10000 to 11000.....wonder how long it will take to fall a few thousand dollars once the music stops. ....

  132. There are probably way more than 21 million U.S. dollar bills (of various denominations) printed everyday of the year.
  133. Already happened Nov 13th. Ok so it was only 1 thousand, not a few. And then it went higher anyway.

    You (and the Wall Street Elites who can't control it) just don't get. Bitcoin is just getting started.

    Laugh till you cry .... and cry and cry.

    There have been dozens of Bitcoin topics started here along the lines of Bitcoin is a fraud. If CME gets their futures contract approved for trading next month I want to see all those who will put up or STFU by shorting BTC. Somebody probably will. The rest of you will continue to do what you have done from the start - whine.
  134. You still don't understand it yet, heh?.... we crypto traders really like if it falls a few thousand, we will buy it very fast at those cheap levels... free money in no time.
  135. This reminds me of every last bubble we have had.... everybodyyyyy thinks it can just keep going and going and going and going.....go back to 1999 and 2006 and read all the articles and watch every program on cnbc..Bloomberg cnn..etc...no one saw the collapses coming and for the one or two people who did see it coming well they were mocked and called out ....this is the exact thing that's happening right this second through out each asset class especially bitcoin......every bitcoin bull thinks they are invincible....I bet about 90% of bitcoin owners don't even know what the dot com bubble was and probably don't even remember the crisis of 2007... all they think of is Bitcoin and how they are going to become free millionaires off a magical coin....
  136. I'm probably older than you.

    Sold my huge IT-investment too early in 1998, for only 400k, just because I though it was already over the top. Huge mistake as it would have been 13000k at the top in 2001. I learned it the hard way not to Hodl if the bubble is just starting. This Bitcoin thing is currently at the same level from 1998. It will be 2020 before we even see the top.
  137. Amazon. They can't sell enough books to justify their valuation.

    Starbucks. How many people are going to pay five dollars for a cup of coffee.

    Google. A search engine worth how much!!!!

    Facebook. Come on WTF is social media.

    Netflix. How can they compete with Disney, Time Warner, Sony, Comcast and ... and ... and
  138. You're right. Bitcoin is the pets.com of 1999 as in it's the first generation blockchain. It took a decade for the second generation of internet businesses to grow a better business model and take over the world. Bitcoin is currently breaking all barriers for second generation blockchains. Futures will decouple price risk from settlement layer which will allow it to be used for million dollar settlements. Once that is done and the pattern is widely accepted like online shopping in early 2000, then people will realize there are better alternatives and switching will be a breeze. Until then, it will go up.
  139. Has it been posted on this thread? Bitcoin is over $11,200 each right now. Yay.

  140. You can only say this after the fact....

    Actually Amazon and Netflix at one point were on the verge of disappearing forever....

    Facebook faltered after it's ipo

    And only fools pay for Starbucks coffee

    But in reality you just have to wake up every single morning and thank the fed for what they have created, the trillions and trillions and trillions of dollars they printed to prop up the stock market is why these companies are trading at where they are today.... everyone thinks there was no helping hand, they are completely wrong, the fed created this new risk free economy, bitcoin was established in 2009, that's exactly when the fed was pumping trillions into the economy.....without the fed Netflix, Google, Starbucks, Facebook and Amazon would not be even close to where they would be today, in fact these stocks would be 70-90% lower if it we're not for the bailout and printed trillions the fed handed over to bail out the economy....thank the fed for every gain you see because without them and their free trillions the economy and stock market would just be hanging on by a single thread.....
  141. Thank you for making the point for why there is a Bitcoin. Because of the fed printing all that paper and electronic money the shaky trust people already had was further eroded.

    And instead of breaking away from the sheeple you parrot the "party line" status quo be afraid be very afraid.

    BTW while BTC is over 11k now Gold is getting crushed this morning -$11
  142. Nasdaq now planning BTC Futures in 1st half of 2018, Cantor Fitzgerald looking at offering their own bitcoin derivatives.

    Dotcom 2.0 liftoff!

  143. You'll wake up one of these days and see bitcoin down $1100.....this is just the the hype everyone wanted ....no one cared for it just a few years ago now everyone is jumping on it like it's going to go up forever hahahaha...... waiting ever so patiently for the gigantic sell off to come ... No one knows how the systems will handle all those sell orders once the tippy top comes.....it's all fun and games when it's rising but when that drop comes and everyone is selling it's going to be quite a headline on the front of cnbc which seems to be hyping it up on a regular basis now......

  144. Wait wait wait.....wasn't bitcoin supposed to be like this little niche coin that was decentralized and in a world of it's own?????

    Now wallstreet is all over it along with the big banks

    This is one big joke....

    So much for a decentralized cryptocurrency...everyone wants in on this action

    The greed is every where....thank you fed and friends for creating the biggest asset bubble the world has ever witnessed....
  145. Rumor has it that the fed wants to create their own cryptocurrency....hahahhahahah

    This is just too funny..... everyone wants to make their own cryptocurrency....before you know mom and pop will have their own cryptocurrency as well...and I thought the fed printing money was easy..... this is just the best ever.... everyone will have their own personalized cryptocurrency....the world will be saturated in millions and millions of cryptocurrency...were up to 1400 and counting......2018 is the year of your very own personalized cryptocurrency....get them now !!!!

  146. Anyone selling? You can always buy it back at a 30% discount....

    Got pretty quiet in hear....Bitcoin dropping pretty hard the last hour. .down over $700+
  147. Just too funny. Next thing you know people will be shopping online and put brick and mortar stores out of business.

    Haha never in a million years.

    + + +

    Bitcoin time log

    $1 huh?
    $10 geek thing
    $100 will lose it all when it crashes
    $1000 bubble mania
    $10000 can't wait till it crashes and I get a big laugh
    $100000 (peanut gallery becomes harder to find than a live Trumpie news conference)
  148. They are selling real companies to day, brick , mortar , factories. To buy the invention of Humperdoo

    We are the New Dutch

  149. I'm laughing so hard right now....hahahahha
    Okay step right up and buy your Bitcoin because you my friend are going to be a free millionaire in less than 2 years....this is the ultimate way...so if everyone can gather up just $10,000 you can be be a millionaire in 104 weeks!!!! 2 years to become a millionaire off a $10,000 investment.....I mean why are we waiting...let's gooo...borrow from friend. Mortgage the house and borrow everything you can...you will be minted a millionaire guranteed in only 2 short years ...hahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahhaha

    James Altucher predicts bitcoin will reach $1 million by 2020
    Evelyn Cheng | @chengevelyn
    Published 5 Mins AgoCNBC.com
    • Outspoken libertarian and MGT Capital Investments CEO John McAfee tweets he predicts bitcoin will reach $1 million by the end of 2020, double his previous forecast.
    • "I'll say 1 million dollars by 2020, as well, easily," Altucher says on CNBC's "Squawk Alley." "There's 15 million millionaires around the world. All their financial advisors are going to say, 'Hey, buy a bitcoin. You need some exposure."
    • Bitcoin hit a record high of $11,377.33 earlier in the day, according to CoinDesk.

  150. I agree with a lot of why you said but I'm still long. Why ? Because the price is going up (a lot) and could go up much more becuase its difficult to price and lots of folks still havent been able to easily buy yet. Yes its that simple.
    Just trade the fuck3r and have some fun doing it :)
    So what if it is a bubble, you can still make money.
  151. This is the most well known bubble in the history of bubbles.

  152. wow, i never thought of that. You must be a player.
  153. So, I finally jumped on the BTC bandwagon. Now is a good time to get out, I'm sure. I'm pretty good at nailing the top with buy orders.

  154. About a month ago I think he said Amazon was going to accept Bitcoin too, so he could be just speaking off the cuff. Or he's signaling to the rest of the Street that his contacts are going in and they should get on aboard the Magic Money Train.

    Let me add that Chinese CCTV said that Amazon accepted Bitcoin...signalling by the Chinese?
  155. Where does every get there real time bitcoin price from

    I checked Bitcoin ticker $9525
    I checked out coin base $9741
    I checked out a regular search online $10410
    I checked coinmarketcap $10068

    I could see a $5-$10 dollar difference due to real time data being a few seconds behind but this much gap is incredible.
  156. 9423 and falling hard and fast!!!!!

    Down almost $2000 in a day....
  157. I thought I was joking. It's dumped 10% in 40 mins! :confused:

  158. What did you expect.... I said yesterday it was coming to a top...now down over $2000 from it's highs this morning.....sell orders are going crazzzzzzy zzzzz

    Could go into free fall mode...most people bought around $9000 around Thanksgiving when 300000 new accounts were opened...they will be sitting at a loss once that breaks
  159. Would you buy at 8k?
  160. Flash crash happening right now: nice cheap coins coming in :)
    {Only if you already have limit orders waiting and entered yesterday, because a lot of exchanges have difficulties to enter any order: stress test in progress...}...
  161. Watching this on gdax and it's that Macho Man Madness kicking in!

    Am I reading this right, low of 8595 and the next green bar is 10,000 in a matter of 15 minutes?

    Still HODLing.
  162. No drama, just at the price level of 3 days ago. In a week we are back above 10.000 again (unless there is real news).
  163. We're back to over $10K now on Coinbase. Yay.
  164. Party like it's 1999.

  165. No

    I would probably buy it somewhere under $2000 ...other than that no...if anyone is thinking of buying they should only buy 1/10th at these levels or about a $1000 worth....
    I had a friend of mine buy a 1/2 around $600 about 2 and half years ago...I was with them the day they bought it, they said why don't you buy I said because it's going to lose half it's value ....fast forward it lost half it's value some months later like I predicted, but I myself didn't bother to buy...it wasn't easy to buy back in 2014/2015, I researched it... only recently in the last 3-6 months has it become an easier thing to buy, for now I'm not touching it...if it gets below $2000 I might consider it but for now nope....
  166. Some poor schmuck converted his life savings to a full bitcoin at 11,800 and then sold the bottom at 8500 or whatever 20 mins later, I guarantee it.

    Somehow these retail bitcoinerz have defied all logic with their hodl philosophy, congrats to the earlier adopters, hopefully all these hodlers have a cost basis below 8K and not all put on credit cards. If I was visa/mastercard I'm not sure I'd be very happy about this. Well maybe I would, hard to tell.
  167. The digital currency dropped more than 18 percent from a record high of $11,388.33 to $9,290.30 on Wednesday, according to CoinDesk. Bitcoin then attempted to recover the $10,000 level in the late afternoon and was last trading around $9,897. Trading was extremely volatile as exchanges struggled to keep up with the surging demand.

    Coinbase, the leading U.S. website for buying and selling bitcoin, reported record high traffic Wednesday. Services were unavailable for some customers. Coinbase's GDAX exchange also reported "performance issues and downtime" Wednesday afternoon, but as of about 3:20 PM ET, it said those issues had been resolved.

  168. Credit cards to buy virtual magic coins....I think that was one way of trading Bitcoin...why any fool.would use a credit card to buy anything other than some merchandise from JCPenney's is beyond me....

    Nothing like paying off credit card debt at an APR of 15.99999999999999999%%%

  169. Yep just as I thought....prices start to rapidly drop and you are watching profits turn into losses as you cant login.....you would think in 2017 with all this high tech that we have going on that something like this wouldn't take place, don't they test these systems before implementing them......

    People also reported being locked out of accounts on GDAX, Coinbase's professional trading platform, and Bitstamp, a bitcoin exchange based in Luxembourg.

    Users of the digital exchanges saw slowed performance on the websites and in some cases still cannot log into their accounts.
  170. Whale picking up cheap coins:

  171. What exchange is that graph from?
  172. Bitfinex (one of the biggest, and didn't have any trouble today).
  173. At least your honest enough to admit your terrible at trading bitcoin.... If you had bought at 300, when you had the chance but didn't bother you wouldnt care less about today volatility.
  174. For those who already own BTC I'd be interested to know under what circumstances you would sell them.

    For me, I have already taken out the original stake, so it' basically letting profits run. Would sell once all the BTC sales and marketing channels are open and we run out of new buyers e.g easy to buy via normal stock brokers or bank accounts, even my parents have bought etc. First sign of weakness after that I'd sell a major chunk.
  175. I think the number depends on the person and speaking for my case, it's not an all-or-nothing deal. A certain bitcoin price would probably get me to sell a portion and pay the taxes and leave in the bank.

    Until that number hits, I just spend bitcoin and the tax implication is limited to only those transactions (15% long-term). I've spent all of the $ value I've invested in, so everything is profits from here on out.

    The volatility today had little effect on me psychologically as I've been through worse over the years. It comes with the territory of the crypto markets. I feel for the new guys who just got in. Something to keep in mind, Bitcoin market cap is very small for the amount of money and people coming in. fwiw.

  176. I sold all mine today (yesterday UK time). Think there will be a massive correction. I'm probably wrong. Will buy back if it hits new highs.
  177. I see many, many people comparing the market caps of cryptocurrency to the likes of gold...to the value of all US currency and the stock market etc......saying that a $300 billion dollar market cap on 1400 cryptocurrency is peanuts and that this has to be valued in the trillions because all other asset classes are already worth trillions.....since when is this an idea on how to value an asset class....no one financial model has proven to be a reliable indicator of what a bitcoin or ripple or what every coin is worth.. Just because one asset class is worth this much doesn't mean that the other has to be worth that much....I think many are having a difficult time on how to put a value on something that really has no value since most of these cryptocurrencies are made and developed from thin air....a few clicks on the computer and like magic you created a cryptocurrency...

  178. Price went parabolic....from $9000 to $10000 in 2 days and $10000 to $11000 in one single day....then everyone questions the 18% drop from highs....haha
  179. Have u thought of creating one? Might as well take advantage of all the crazies out there.

  180. But wait wait wait wait wait....I thought cryptocurrency was unregulated... decentralized...no organization....no middle man...no banks...

    Hahahahahahaha........yep..... unregulated.. decentralized...no nothing ....hahaha....look at all the lost control....what was once hidden and secretive is now open and out.... too bad...didn't take long now did it????
  181. If you have gains in bitcoin, report and pay taxes when you sell (or spend same as selling). It's only 15% based on your profits (minus cost-basis) if it's held over a year.

    Don't mess with the IRS.
  182. Did a lot of trading.... It's gonna be a book keeping nightmare. 1st world problems...
  183. [​IMG]
  184. For the people doing that, their APR is probably around 21%.
  185. [Not a tax advice, please seek a professional]. Keep it simple. You have record you bought bitcoin from Coinbase at $xxx and you sold (or spent) bitcoin at $xxxx/btc. Each purchase using btc is recorded with the amount (and in some cases the conversion rate is printed on the invoice).

    Credit to a YouTuber who got it from another source, but still seek proper professional advice.

  186. I would say probably even higher...I know people with perfect credit scores with credit card apr at 12.99%%% credit card companies could give two fu$ks about your perfect credit score ...you cant find anything lower than probably 8.99%
  187. Yeah, figured it'd be like that, gonna push my luck with a bunch of like-kind exchanges, crypto being an asset and all.

    Anyone with experience reporting crypto trades?
  188. Dude you can’t like kind exchange it, that’s only for business assets.
  189. So using the historical data many times it has been an excellent time to buy BTC on credit cards given its much higher returns compared to the financing cost ;)
    You seem a bit sour when you had chance to buy at 300 but didn' bother.
  190. Not necessarily, it concerns investment assets as well..... However, fresh off the press:

    Both the House and Senate tax bills call for cutting back Section 1031 to cover only real estate. The two tax bills are filled with controversy, but not over this point. In that sense, the debates over 1031 exchanges of cryptocurrency may not be relevant too much longer.


    One more reason to hate this disaster of a bill.
  191. Or to take on 0% APR for a year offers
  192. Excellent remark ! Thx
    2 decades after, same behaviour, same foolishness :)

  193. Yes, its very foolish to trade an asset that keeps appreciating in value. A wise man sits on the sideline with cynicism.
  194. Why are you talking about asset?
    Bitcoin is virtual, not an asset.
    No cynicism my friend. How was the Turkey? Good ?

  195. https://www dot reddit dot com/r/Bitcoin/comments/7glrfi/seriously_coinbase_disabled_buys/

    https://www dot reddit dot com/r/Bitcoin/comments/7gls43/coinbase_saying_that_bitcoin_purchases_are/

    If this is true (Coinbase is disabling buy orders) then does it also follow that Coinbase is disabling all trading? As in, Coinbase operates as a matchmaker for customers who want to buy and sell on the Coinbase exchange?

  196. How much are the fees associated with trading on the cryptocurrency exchanges?

    I noticed coinbase gets 1.5%, that's extremely steep in my opinion.....
    To trade a single bitcoin cost approx $300 for a round trip at $10000 a Bitcoin

    To cover your fees Bitcoin has to move $300 before you start seeing any profit.. fu$k that
  197. Are you seriously thinking of buying? I have a small amount but I didn't notice the fees.

  198. No not buying anything just looking at the fees associated with buying and selling....I never knew that they charged that much to trade these things.. unless coinbase is the only one with these crazy fees....I guess I'm used to paying a few dollars to buy and sell stocks ... anything over $10 bucks is considered steep, that's my opinion since I'm used to paying a few dollars when I trade stocks.. to drop 1.5% on a $10000 buy of bitcoin, haaaa. Yea right.
    Who do you use to trade your coins? How much you pay for each transaction?
  199. I used coinbase and gemini
  200. Spot exchanges will charge around 0.2% for taker and less for maker. Bitmex charges 0.075% for taker and -0.025% for maker on their futures contracts.
  201. I went to bitmex ...are they just as good as coinbase?
  202. precisely why I am staying out until I can participate thru a US exchange... CME launching Futures soon
  203. LMAO

    BK Tries to sell some BTC live on CNBC through Coinbase and of course Coinbase denies the sale. Then he buys instead ahahahaha!

    Coinbase is such a bucket shop and it's the main link between USD and Crypto. Scary. Goes out all the time on high vol days. What a racket.


  204. Yep who didn't see that coming.....
    Called it the other day!

    Bitcoin plunges 20% from its high

    • From Wednesday's high of $11,363.99, bitcoin has fallen to a low of $ 9,021.85, a 20.6 percent drop.
    • Bitcoin last traded at $9,206.13, down 6.2 percent on Thursday, according to CoinDesk.
  205. Bitmex is a BTC settled derivative exchange. Coinbase is a spot exchange. As to which one is better... They'll both crash during high load and may take the money and run at any point in the future.
  206. failure to execute orders, crashing during high volume, hacker threats, no oversight....etc......

    Am I the only one that is staying away due to these issues? I mean Geez, when Mt Goxin went under tens of Millions of investor money was gone forever.
  207. I buy via a normal stockbroker. Same fees as other etfs, currency spreads etc. Compared to how much BTC has increased so what if you paid a 1.5 percent fee.

    You fuck3d up not buying when you should have at 300 but why so much hate and BS posts. Go short if you want.
  208. What exactly is the difference between cryptocurrency and tulips?
  209. Yeah so buy BTC or Ether fund via stockbroker instead..... and you also don't need to remember keys ;o)
  210. One is a plant the other is not :wtf:

    Seriously they have much in common but some differences. Figure it out.
  211. It's all about figuring out what debt the item can be redeemed for.

    Tulip bulbs you can plant them in the ground to grow a new tulip.

    Cryptocurrencies you can use them to priorize a transaction to be included in the next block on a decentralized ledger.

    USD you can use them to pay for government services or parking tickets.
  212. Tulips are like options, they expire.
  213. What a great logical answer to an obvious joking question. Gold response.

  214. People are BTFD.
  215. I use gdax which is the trading exchange of coinbase. If you place a limit order, then they charge nothing if it is filled.
  216. Wow! CFTC has really approved it. What a legitimation of the Bitcoin project!
  217. I want to make sure I got this right. When I look at the contract specifics it’s going to be $25 USD which will control five underlined BTC coins. If I’m doing my math right that is a 2000 times on leverage! The ES trades at 50X by the way
  218. No you don't have that correct. $25 USD is the tick size. I think the margin is going to be 25%.
  219. I figured I had it wrong..... could you please break it down for me... I am looking to buy and hold for longer periods, not day trade....so I am trying to figure out the required maintenance to hold overnight and what the move on the contract equals in dollars... like I know a 1 Tick move on ES is $12.50 and 1 pt NQ is $5.... also, do we know what increment of $1 it will trade? .25 I assume? 4 ticks per $1,, $100 per point?
  220. Don't forget that it can also go down, something most believers forget.

    There were already a lot of+25% drops in past. That could mean a total loss of your margin. So the market can change your "buy and hold" in an "intraday total loss". Because of the aggressive moves and the unpredictability I am curious how many will make money and how many will wipe out. I think there will be more wipe outs then new millionaires.

    Futures in cryptocurrencies seem to me more dangerous then futures ES. And even in futures ES the majority loses money...
  221. At the current price: 5 x 10500 = $52.500. CME asks 35% overnight, then $18.375 is your margin. At least! Because your Broker can (and will, if it is IB) higher the margin requirements to say 50%.
    If you want to Hodl (and roll over every 3 months), without the fear of Margin calls, then it might be better to keep 75% or just buy the Bitcoin itself instead of a Future (the roll-over costs will be high as well).
  222. Thank you Hoi.... okay,,, Why in the did they make it 5 Bitcoins ? and why is the maintenance so high? for ES... it's $4500 vs the full value at $133,000?? which is roughly 2%

    now when are options coming? this is gonna require me to lock up more $$ than I wish to do @ approx $25,000 per contract or more....
  223. Because they estimate the risk approx. 17 times bigger then the ES. As the ES is already risky, the margin confirms the HUGE risk. Leveraging cryptocurrencies is very risky, not to say insane. Leveraging will increase (rather multiply) the negative effect in case of a drawdown. A 10% drop, which is small in case of cryptocurrencies, will lead to a 28.5% loss (10% multiplied by 2.85 at 35% margin) of capital. A 35% drop will wipe out your account completely.

    Based on what you post I advice you NOT to trade futures and surely not crypo futures.
    There are far more people that become poor from trading futures then there are who become rich from it. Although from start all these people wanted to become rich...
    Let's say that the odds are not in your favor.
  224. Here you go......

    A million dollars bitcoin prediction. ...keep buying and buying

    Free millions for everyone!!!!!

    James Altucher's 10 predictions about where bitcoin and cryptocurrencies are headed
    • Crytptocurrencies like bitcoin are here to stay. Investor James Altucher has 10 predictions about where they're headed.
    Sameepa Shetty
    Published 1 Hour Ago Updated 1 Hour AgoCNBC.com

    The bitcoin and cryptocurrency trend is not going to stop: Formula Capital's James Altucher 11:57 AM ET Wed, 29 Nov 2017 | 04:30

    Bitcoin's giant move upward is far from done, according to tech investor and stock picker James Altucher.

    According to Altucher, society has made major changes to its currency a few times in history: Gold replaced barter as a transactional currency; paper money replaced gold as a store of value; and bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies are going to replace paper money as a transactional currency.

    Each type of currency solved problems of the prior generation of currency, he said in an interview with CNBC. Bitcoin solves the problem of infinite money printing, forgery, double-spending and anonymity, he said. Altucher owns bitcoin, ethereum, litecoin, zcash and filecoin.

    Pointing to a demand-supply imbalance, Altucher predicts that bitcoin will top $1,000,000 per coin.

    "There's $200 billion in cryptocurrencies out there and over $200 trillion in demand for money — that's the amount of paper currency and gold bullion in the world," he said.

    Altucher, founder and publisher of Choose Yourself Financial, a subscription-based financial publication cautions that 98 percent of cryptocurrencies are scams. But bitcoin and a few other cryptocurrencies are here to stay, he believes.

    "This is the greatest tectonic shift in money and wealth that we will see in our lifetimes," he said.

    Here are his 10 predictions for cryptocurrencies:

    1. At least one country's currency is likely to fail soon — likely Argentina or Venezuela. This will lead to mass adoption of bitcoin among that populace. That will in turn lead to bitcoin rising by more than $50,000 when it happens.
    2. Mainstream banks will accept bitcoin, and will start offering storage and software access. They will also create cryptocurrency derivatives — as the CME is about to start doing.
    3. Despite the optimism, there will be a massive wipeout, and 95 percent of the alt-coins out there will go away — just like the dot-com bust. The surviving coins will go up a ton. This will happen within next four-six months.
    4. The U.S. government will secretly start accumulating one of the smaller cryptocurrencies to make it easier for gray-area transactions with other countries. This has already started happening but will really start to ramp up in 2018.
    5. China will invest heavily in another cryptocurrency, but probably not bitcoin. China will want to have a cryptocurrency that is competitive with bitcoin, but under its centralized control. This will, in general, provide legitimacy to all cryptocurrencies.
    6. One big problem with cryptocurrencies now is their volatility. At least one — basecoin — will likely dramatically reduce that in 2018.
    7. More companies will pay freelancers with crypto, which will lead to calls for tax reform. There will need to be greater regressive sales taxes, which will ultimately require government cuts and eventually less power for national governments. This is a long-term prediction.
    8. In the same way the internet changed the monopolistic phone industry, crypto will change the monopolization of government-backed money.
    9. A new government organization will be created to analyze regulation on cryptocurrencies. This will, ironically, lead to a huge upswing in bitcoin and coins that provide actual utility.
    10. Thousands of crypto companies will be created and go public, but only a few will be massive successes.
  225. "America's most in-demand cryptocurrency expert"
  226. Have they opened a Palm Beach Cryptocurrency Association yet?
  227. There’s an old saying that goes, “Predicting the future is easy … getting it right is the hard part.”

    1. “There’s no chance that the iPhone is going to get any significant market share.” -Steve Ballmer, Microsoft CEO (April 2007)
    2. “There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home.” -Ken Olson, president Digital Equipment Corp (1977)
    3. “Within the next two decades autos will be made with folding wings.” -Eddie Rickenbacker, pilot (1924)
    4. “In five years I don't think there'll be a reason to have a tablet anymore.” -Thorsten Heins, BlackBerry CEO (2013)
    5. “The subscription model of buying music is bankrupt.” -Steve Jobs (2003)
    Steve Jobs also called 7-inch tablets “dead on arrival” in 2010. Oops.
    6. "Remote shopping, while entirely feasible, will flop.” -Time Magazine (1966)
    7. Windows Phone will be No. 2 in Smartphones by 2015. -IDC, Gartner, IHS
    8. “I predict the Internet in 1996 [will] catastrophically collapse.” -Robert Metcalfe (1995)
    9. “We’re going to become better than No. 1 (in tablets).” -Eric Cador senior VP, Hewlett Packard (2010)
    10. “Cellular phones will absolutely not replace local wire systems.” -Marty Cooper, inventor (1981)
    11. "There's just not that many videos I want to watch." — Steve Chen, CTO and co-founder of YouTube expressing concerns about his company’s long term viability. 2005
    12. "Everyone's always asking me when Apple will come out with a cell phone. My answer is, 'Probably never.'" — David Pogue, The New York Times. 2006
    13. By 1985, air pollution will have reduced the amount of sunlight reaching earth by one half .Life Magazine
    14. “We will not see a crash in our time.” John Maynard Keynes, 1927 two years before the Wall Street Crash that started The Great Depression.
    15. “He does not possess significant leadership qualities.” Officer report on Corporal Hitler, 1918 on reason for not promoting the decorated NCO to officer.
    16. "The horse is here to stay but the automobile is only a novelty—a fad." – -The president of the Michigan Savings Bank advising Henry Ford's lawyer not to invest in the Ford Motor Co., 1903
    17. "There is not the slightest indication that nuclear energy will ever be obtainable. It would mean that the atom would have to be shattered at will." – Albert Einstein, 1932
    18. "There will never be a bigger plane built." – – A Boeing engineer, after the first flight of the 247, a twin engine plane that holds ten people, 1933
    19. "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." – Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943

    20. ALTUCHER?????
  228. Bitcoin price is back to over $11,000 each. Yay.
  229. Thank you based Mueller
  230. Just a question. Does the bitcoin futures market trades 24/7 as the current bitcoin exchanges?
    If it is not, then I foresee huge gaps, weekends gaps especially.
  231. almost 24 hours / day.

    it will be like other CME financial instruments which are traded almost 24 hrs / day
  232. Actually the others each have 60 minutes or so gaps. Appears Bitcoin will trade a true 24 hour period (6pm-5pm EDT) Sun thru Fri with only a reset (1 minute?) at the close of each trading day.
  233. I think you may be the first person to predict an end to the bitcoin rise.
  234. I know, right?
    Isn't there a traders golden rule - TMIAR - The market is always right?
    And traders will all tell you that - until they talk about the Bitcoin Bubble.
    (Maybe that's why bitcoin is different - :cool:).

  235. Hold on for dear life.
  236. It's easy to short on Polo, BTFinex, Bitmex and many others.
  237. and...DONE!
  238. It hasn't showed up in my wallet, yet....
  239. Damn - sorry. I only paid 4 satoshi for the confirmation. $2 billion stuck in transit. Rookie mistake. Won't happen again. Can't - that was my last $2 billion.
  240. The biggest transaction I ever saw was about $600 million, in I think 2014, the fee was less than 1 dollar. (it was believed from the exchange Bitstamp, to prove their solvability).
  241. If you don't include enough satoshis (fees) when sending bitcoin, the transaction will reverse and the bitcoin will go back to your wallet usually after 2-3 days. They don't get lost in the neverland.

    [Transactions that are in the mempool and do not confirm (not committed to the blockchain) are dropped from the mempool and wallets will be able to search the blockchain and the bitcoin will be in the original (sender's) address as if the transaction never took place]

    Confused? Welcome to the world of decentralized cryptocurrency. If you can't handle.... :)
  243. "When someone says they are decentralized, point them here."

    .. OK I'll do that ..

    Confused ? you bet I am ... far more knowledgeable people than me can't even agree over whether Bitcoin is decentralized or not .
  244. Hit record highs today! Bitcoin bull market continues.
  245. Up 300% in 2.5 months .. nosebleed ..
  246. Seems so. Bit of extra volatility for first day it gets above 10,000. Maybe expected with all the publicity and round number sell target. Then parabolic curve continues.....

    Another Barrons article to draw in more money from the US middle class?

  247. where are corrections to jump in the uptrend?
  248. I am guessing banks, funds etc are buying to sell to clients in few months when more products come to market. As long as it keeps getting more accessible to buy, more publicity in mainstream publication, then just hodl ;)

    In many ways Ethereum is better, just not as well known..... yet.
  249. thanks, but I have doubts about Ethereum, its potential in comparison with Bitcoin
  250. The party din is hitting hard on my ear-drums, but I am not joining.

    I remember all too well starting in the market (anything Nasdaq) in December 1999 as the party noise got to me, shortly before the peak.
  251. But is it Nasdaq 1999 or 1995 with lots more to go that is the real question?
    Since its still quite hard for the dumb joe public to buy I'm guessing more to go. Once my dad starts buying I'm out :)
  252. Bitcoin was first, more well known and most quoted by the media but Ether is more efficient for transactions and more versatile. Code written some years after BTC. I have some of each since its possible that Ether is the Facebook to bitcoins Friendster (or bebo or friends reunited etc). I will have a look a ripple when time but most of the rest look like junk.

    Any specific reason you have doubts about Ethereum or is it just because BTC is the biggest just now?
  253. Bitcoin has been compared to the 1999 Nasdaq (tech) bubble and the Tulip Mania bubble. I was around during the Nasdaq bubble, and I remember, at work, at parties, at family get-together, at hangouts (drinks or even bowling!), everyone was into stocks.

    I've mentioned Bitcoin in similar situations for a few years now, and I get no reaction. No one has a clue. To this day, I don't know anyone in person who has a bitcoin or any type of cryptos.

    I do not see the current Bitcoin stage as the same as the Nasdaq 1999 stage. It simply doesn't add up. The market penetration for investors in the US is probably less than 5% and I'm referring to the most experienced speculators, such as the people here on ET.

    “The whole market cap of all [cryptocurrencies] is $300 billion. That’s nothing. The NASDAQ at its high, in the 1999 bubble, was $6 trillion, and the NASDAQ was a U.S.-led bubble,” he said. Cryptocurrency, on the other hand, is “a global phenomenon,” with the majority of trading volumes concentrated outside of the U.S.

  254. johnarb - was at a conference with professional scientists last week (everyone with graduate degrees, computer literate some of them computer modellers). Average age maybe 40ish. Nearly everyone heard about BTC, many know details, mentioned often at lunch or coffee breaks..... but few actually bought.... so lots of folks on the sidelines to keep the bubble going....

    One person at work in IT dept said he had 800 BTC at one point but sold at the 'crazy' price of 100 usd. Lol.

    Anyway it is fun
  255. I didn't fix my post so I know message was not clear. I meant to say when I mentioned it over the years that no one had a clue (of course nearly everyone has heard of it now).

    I stopped mentioning Bitcoin over a year ago, but if anyone talks to me about it now (like some of the people I mentioned to in the past) , I still discuss at length as it's a subject that's very interesting to me.
  256. It's going to 100,000 without you.

    Then 1,000,0000

    Leaving you and yours behind in a cloud of dust
  257. Good thing we have the 'con to replace those worthless dollars, and that heavy to carry gold.
  258. I think the point he's making is that Ecclesiastes holds the secrets to winning the stock market. Who knew? I always thought it was Numbers, personally.
  259. So bitcoin 10 trillion?
  260. The rising mark from 1918 to 1923 chart. Well a more clear reason for buying Bitcoin could never have been presented.
  261. And I bet you do not remember the bear market of 1973-1974. I do and lost 85% of my portfolio. It was worse than anything you young guys have seen. It kind of amazes me that you youngsters are face to face with the opportunity of your lifetime and you are already calling it a bubble when it has not even yet begun the upward slope of its long term chart. You guys talk of a crash and we had a 40% drop in Sept and another 30% drop the weekend of Nov 18th, and another recent drop from 11,500 to 8,800 in hours. This is nothing. @Hoi gets it. Few of you others do.
  262. Forget bitcoin $12,000 or $22,000 or $40,000 or $100,000 or $178,000....you can forget about bitcoin$234,000 or $287,000....forget about $332,000 and $475,000 forget about $577,000 and 607,000 and 882,000 forget about bitcoin $909,000 and $917,000 .....Mr. McAfee already says it's going ton$1,000,000 by 2020....so everyone buy 1 Bitcoin at $11000 and sit back and collect your free $990,000 Worth of profits in only 2 years!!!! Why even bother with stocks...or real estate...forget about working...where can you invest a little over $10000 and receive a $1,000,000 bucks in only 2 years.....no one has to work....just buy bitcoin and make free money forever and ever and ever and ever and ever....why even stop at a million....it's going to go to $3 million and then$8 million and eventually $12 million by 2023.....you can't lose money since it only goes straight up...keep buying......

    Cybersecurity pioneer and eclectic personality John McAfee raised his 2020 bitcoin price target to $1 million, and his bet will undoubtedly leave even the most ardent bitcoin skeptic praying that he’s right.
  263. Is that trading advice? You should buy one bitcoin also if you don't have any.

    I'd like to make a comment... You seem very stressed about this whole crypto bull market. Don't stress. Most important thing in life is health. Don't worry about this bitcoin stuff. In 100 years, we'll all be dead.
  264. S2007S - Not often I put people on ignore but congrats after so much nonsense you one of the few!
  265. How could you be so sure?
  266. Actually if you buy at $11000 and it goes to a million, you only collect a 'free' $989,000.....
  267. fantastic scenario
  268. or phantasm scenario. sounds almost the same but a world of difference in $$$$.
  269. There are three weak points in holding bitcoins versus trading:
    • compounding
    • frequency
    • leverage
    But I am afraid the majority doesn't even understand what I am posting.
    You can beat the bitcoin's performance while having less risk and less drawdowns.
  270. Why would you suggest that the majority of ET can't understand your thinking here? It is same as holding SPX for the long term vs trading ES. IF you are a good trader then go for it.
  271. I posted already in past that I have better risk reward options (don't confuse with options trading, option is used in the meaning of alternative) then buying bitcoins. But each person should decide what he wants to do as he will take the reward or the damage, depending on the final outcome.

    But I repeat: a lot of people have no idea how to calculate potential profits and their risk rewards.

    PS:it is clearly NOT "holding SPX for the long term vs trading ES". And I forgot 1 extra weak point: leverage.
    I also have a huge problem with comparing" holding SPX for the long term" with "holding bitcoin for the long term". Watch behavior of both, there is a huge difference between the two.
  272. I agree completely. I was just using that as a comparative example.
  273. "...CME and CBOE are competing to dominate the market for bitcoin derivatives by offering different products. They also have different systems for pricing their products. CME is relying on a daily reference rate based on data from a aful of constituent exchanges. The rate is set daily at 4 pm ET London Time..."

    So... does mean it's going to be like mutual funds with their "end of day" pricing... and no intraday trading??
  274. I would think it would be more likely how they handle settlement pricing for commodities.
  275. What is ET London time?
  276. It’s a crypto thing, you wouldn’t understand. Jk
  277. It was the time when ET (from the movie) arrived the first time in London.

  278. How's my 2 favorite coins Monero and Bitcoin Cash going? The people that sold their free allocation of BCH @ $2-$400 Lol.
  279. Add Litecoin to the mix, these 3 coins are hot right now.

    This is the 3rd phase of the crypto evolution and is about technical superiority, better-informed investors, crypto becoming mainstream.
  280. You meant dividens. But yeah, Litecoin is over $100!!! They need a fork too.
  281. Hey guys! Bitcoin is over $12,100 each today at Coinbase/GDAX. Yay.
  282. Even though we're going parabolic, I know I sleep well at night knowing republican types don't own this.
  284. OMG $12 360 already. Movement without retracements!
  285. Did you miss the move from 11K to 8K brah?
  286. Monero could hit USD$300 today. Can't get to $1,000 fast enough, it's simply the dynamics of the market holding it back.
  287. Skipped right over $12k and went straight to $13k

    People are buying this like it's never ever going to drop....

    Seeing other ALT coins moving 25-75% a day...
  288. Before buying btc, it pays to shop around ..
    btc price.jpg

  289. I have noticed that.....

    Talk about paying a premium for a magical coin!!!!
  290. Balls deep bitfinex although seriously guys, what's a few hundred bucks when it's going to the MOOOOOOOON!!!!!
  292. Monero is due for some moderate pullbacks, reaching $300 in the next day is 50/50 at this stage.

  293. This was around $14 in the beginning of the year....even if these coins lose 74-90% of their value over night they are still up tremendously in the last 2-3 years...
  294. Is this even possible??? As much electricity as the entire world????

    Naturally, this is leading to concerns about sustainability. Eric Holthaus, a writer for Grist, projects that, at current growth rates, the Bitcoin network will "use as much electricity as the entire world does today" by early 2020. "This is an unsustainable trajectory," he writes.
  295. "each bitcoin transaction requires the same amount of energy used to power nine homes in the U.S. for one day."

    Proof of Work has no future .

    "Proof-of-Work (PoW) is not secure, has no future, and it's electricity usage is a cancer that would guzzle watts like entire continents. Bitcoin needs to change to Proof-of-Stake (PoS) if it's to survive in the long run..."
  297. It will change to small percentage fee per transaction when all BTC mined. Who cares about the electricity bill when the BTC reward easily justifies the mining cost :)

    Another day onwards and upwards. Suspect buying now to dump on the public next week when becomes easier for them to buy.
  298. Of course that's not possible. Fake mathematics, fake news....

    Production of one coin costs about 25-50% of its market-value, doesn't matter if it's 2010, or 2017, or 2025.
    If what "Eric Holthous" predicts was true for 2020, then one Bitcoin would be worth: $9.600.000. Which is of course BS.
  299. Hello again. That didn't take long. Bitcoin price is over $13,000 each on Coinbase/GDAX. Yay.
  300. Wow the magic coin just went from $12k to $13k in less than 24 hrs.......it will soon be jumping$10,000 increments in 24 hrs ...

    Just buy some fairytale coins ..you'll be rich in hours versus years by buying stocks....
  301. this is just crazy! I don't know what to make of it all.. 5-10% moves in one day! I mean this is just nuts..
  302. Bubbbbbbble bubbbbbbble bubbbble

    Been reading about this for a week....bubbles are everywhere....

    Meet CryptoKitties, the $100,000 digital beanie babies epitomizing the cryptocurrency mania

      • Players have spent the equivalent of $6.7 million and counting buying CryptoKitties, which can sell for as much as $114,481.59, according to third-party research from developer Niel de la Rouviere.
      • The ethereum-based kitten trading and breeding game clogged the digital currency's network this week, delaying at least one token sale and forcing CryptoKitties to raise its fees.
      • "From a high level, abstract point of view, this stuff is almost digital artwork, if you will. It doesn't have any inherent value other than what you think it's worth," said Joey Krug, co-chief investment officer at Pantera Capital, one of the earliest investors in bitcoin.

    Players have spent the equivalent of $6.7 million and counting buying CryptoKitties, which can sell for as much as $114,481.59, according to third-party research from developer Niel de la Rouviere. The median price of a kitten is $25.04.


  303. It's called a bubble........every asset is in bubble however cryptocurrency is the biggest bubble the world has ever witnessed
  304. oh I sure get the bubble idea... but then my mind says "yeah, but what if it is another FB, Microsoft, Google, etc.." and I am thinking am I missing out on potentially the opportunity of a lifetime?? I am sure there are many others playing the same mind game on themselves
  305. Yes indeed, all bubble/ponzi-trolls are missing out the trade of a life time. Sorry but your own fault, for being ignorant.

    But it's not to late: take a few days off to study and open your mindset. Try to understand what a disruptive technology means and why it's so useful. Then wait for the unavoidable 30-40% crash, and buy in blindly! BTFD.
  306. $14000 is only hours away......keep that bubble inflated.... no stopping it now....

    Pull up a chart . Total vertical rise....

    No one will admit it's going to drop or is going to sell when Ludacris values become even more Ludacris...I would not be all that surprised to now see a 50% collapse....the last drop I called two weeks ago I missed saying it would drop 1/3 ...it dropped about 20%....
  307. Bitcoin's fall will be spectacular;
    No chart in history...has ever sky rocketed nearly vertically and survived. .... .. .. o_O,

    I don't know, or understand, Bitcoin...but if this was the S&P 500, SPY...I would be absolutely making a killing with options.
  308. Bitcoin is volently up due to greed.
    soon people will suffer from fear and bitcoin will go down violently.

    The way bitcoin is moving it is going to be the most difficult futures to trade due to its super long candle and its violent nature.

    For day trading, honestly there are other futures that are much easier to earn money.
    eg copper, Hangseng, nikkei, NQ, Russell, Xinhua China A50 ...
    Anyway, I will just monitor CBOE bitcoin futures next week.
  309. Wrong! Bitcoin did that in the past at least 4 times, with even higher verticals than now.
    So yes: it will crash, but it will survive just as easily.
  310. There will be a 90%+ correction at some point, but no one knows where from,
    will it be from $15,000 or $50,000 or $100,000?

    Perhaps when it approaches $1 trillion market cap which equates to a bit less than $50,000 per bit coin.
  311. Will be interesting to see all the shorters come piling in at the start, those who are super-duper sure the bubble will pop. And when it doesn't and they are all forced to buy cover the losses, which will just drive the future price higher, which will cause more bubble-pop short speculation, which will cause covering when no pop, and the cycle continues forever until infinity and .0001 bitcoin can buy the earth.
  312. $14000 in only hours....so $12-$14k in less than a day....the greed is through the roof...will be interesting to see how quick they exit on the next collapse and how quick people are able to get their money.....

  313. Agree...where does the great collapse start, $23000, $50,000 $100,000....it's going to be one for the history books

  314. Yep there's the chart.....once it peaks the ride down is going to look just the same!!!!

    If it we're easy to short I would...I don't touch futures so come next week when they come to the CME I will only be watching......

  315. About 98% of the people have no clue what it is....all I know is that a teacher friend of mine that teaches middle school was telling me how the kids in her classroom are all talking about bitcoin and how their parents are invested in it....that to me signals the end could be sooner than later.....these are people who have no clue what it's about but just getting in because of the euphoria!!!
  316. Just read an article
    Another site was hacked

    4,700 BTC gone!!!

    Or approximately $60 million gone...

    What this means is that once it's gone it's gone....let's say you just spent $12,000 on one of those magical fairytale coins and you wake up the next day you see it completely gone, now what....who wants to stick thousands and thousands of dollars to risk it being gone without a trace....magical coins can do that
  317. Watching the other coins other than bitcoin, they certainly have not been moving with bitcoin....the last big jump past $10000 had other coins pretty much all in lockstep with bitcoin, but this time the others are not joining in on the party ....hmmm
  318. Hello again. Bitcoin is over $14,000 each on Coinbase/GDAX. Yay.
  319. So let's see

    $0-$1000 1789 days
    $1000-$2000 ?
    $2000-$3000 ?
    $3000-$4000 ?
    $4000-$5000 ?
    $5000-$6000 8 days
    $6000-$7000 13 days
    $7000-$8000 14 days
    $8000-$9000 9 days NOVEMBER 25th
    $9000-$10000 2 days
    $10000-$11000 1 day
    $11000-$12000 6 days
    $12000-$13000 17 HOURS
    $13000-$14000 3 HOURS
    $14000-$15000 ??????

    Up $6000 in 11 days

    50% jump

    When this collapses I hope there isn't anyone bitching....with a 50% increase in only 11 days and over a 1000% gain in 2017 you have to realize how much greed is in those numbers and how much of a bubble this is......
  320. Up $2500 in one day

    Risk free money is everywhere

    Thank you Mr. Federal reserve for the biggest bubbles the world has ever witnessed.....hope you have more trillions for when the next collapse comes :)

  321. Even if this were to crash, this has been a lot of fun. Still HODL'ing.

    Oh and the Bitcoin part of twitter, best part of the Twit universe.
  322. Is it just the fed, or the Trump admin - deregulation and all, turn a blind eye to ponzi schemes?

    How can any one justify all the free pump everywhere - brokers, early investors, media on this, while it is illegal for hedgefunds investing in real companies (GOOD, AMZN, MSFT,FB) to advertise to Joe Public?

    Does any one really think that a currency controlled by the vote of a majority of miners (more than 50% of which are in China, subject to their state control) - who can determine by their vote whether a transaction is valid or invalid - will be allowed for long to take up a substantial part of US assets?

    I'm just looking beyond the bubble to the end-point: people crying to congress, congressional hearings. I just hope for the sake of people investing in real products that the ripples does not extend to all of us.
  323. wonder how is bitcoin compare with Tulip price 500 years ago.

  324. :)
  325. OK, let me explain what a BUBBLE is and what a BUBBLE is not.

    Back in 2001 during the dot com thing I spent part of my lunch hour looking at a stock, Free Markets, Inc. comes to mind but don't hold me to it. The stock had already come down from $300 per share to $100 per share and I sniffed out a bargain. Here is what I found in my research.

    The annual report had just been released and sales had increased from 8 million to 20 million but with heavy negative earnings and no prospect for earning any profits anytime in the foreseeable future. When I priced out the price per share times the number of shares outstanding the total valuation of the company was 2.3 BILLION DOLLARS after already losing 2/3 of its value.

    How a BUBBLE that huge could have ever existed is beyond this human's comprehension. This was in actuality a penny stock. It HAD to burst because there was an anchor dragging it back down to earth. THAT WAS A BUBBLE!

    Bitcoin on the other hand is not a stock! It is not encumbered with sales, PE ratios and any other customary ways of price evaluation. It is an uncorrelated asset in its own world that few on ET understand. You "Bubble Bobble Heads" ( I just love saying that) are calling it a bubble just by looking at its chart. So it has a 50% correction from here, well it would still be higher than it was just 3 weeks ago.

    Bitcoin is a world wide accepted store of value and there is no turning back from that. It has a very limited supply and most of those are held in private wallets and are not for sale at any price for the next few years. So if you want a portion of a bitcoin you have to pay up to get someone who actually does own some to sell it to you. Because of that the market is thin and there are whales who buy up a lot then sell to panic the newbees then buy back in. This creates the volatility that is common with Bitcoin and we just laugh when you guys crow about a 11,500 to 8,800 drop in a few hours.

    Bitcoin is thriving in spite of the national business media ridiculing it and all of the government financial leaders and corporate leaders trying to verbally destroy it. Thus far it has been driven by the techies and the geeks but now it is just beginning to go mainstream. In my observations the people with large investments and IRAs are waking up and wanting in. Even financial advisers are seeing the advantage of adding such an uncorrelated asset as a balancing effect for 3% to 5% of their clients portfolios.

    The surge in Bitcoin is just getting started and even at these prices it is still the opportunity of your lifetime. Three years from now when you look at a Bitcoin chart the year 2017 will be in the flatlined portion of the chart and the upward thrust has not even started yet.

    The bottom line is that all you Bitcoin critics are on the wrong side of history.

    Bitcoin is WHAT A BUBBLE IS NOT!
  326. It doesn't have to be a stock to be in a bubble , lol , Bitcoin is worthless and useless and in a huge bubble .
  327. Most multi billion dollar tech industries start off as nerd oddities...

    The personal computer, the cell phone, the internet, the MP3 player, the smart phone, video games, DVD players, and so on.

    Obviously it takes a level of intellect to get interested so that may explain it, but this form of "banking" is pretty revolutionary, no matter what detractors may say. It's not just money being thrown at some fake coin, the multiple developments in the whole industry is no joke.

    From the exchanges allowing the trading, to the hardware dedicated to it, to the multiple venues being launched by venture money, it's not going away, even once the bubble pops.
  328. It's actually a huge relief that we bitcoin hodlers are not on the same side of the trade as these bubble callers. They're all waiting for the 30% or 40% or even bigger crash in bitcoin price as if we've never experienced such a move. Newsflash, there was one a few months ago from $5K to less than $3K in less than a week. We're used to it...

  329. I'm selling 1/2 my stash, damn, I'm going to own more in taxes than I've made in the last 20 years.
  330. Bitcoin graph will look like tulip mania soon
  331. 6 hours (today.)
  332. hmmm. Greed can really do 'wonders'.
    It can do the impossibles.
  333. So imagine if you bought one magically delicious coin for $12,786 and your riding the wave to profits and the next day after a couple of thousand dollars worth of gains you want to sell and you realize your fairytale coin is no where to be found.....uhhh ohhhh.....now what, looks like you aren't getting any of those hot profits or even your original money back ....I don't care what exchange or what wallet you are on they will hack at anything possible to grab these coins, I have a feeling there is going to be even a larger hack in the Billions soon.....seems there is no avoiding it....

    More than $60 million worth of bitcoin potentially stolen after hack on cryptocurrency site

    • Users highlighted the cyber breach on Reddit and Twitter Wednesday, with some saying they could lose hundreds of dollars.
    • While NiceHash was unable to specify how much bitcoin had been stolen, users have pointed to a bitcoin wallet which holds 4,736.42 bitcoins — equivalent to $67 million.
  334. better trade through CME or CBOE exchange. then no such problem
  335. None of the other top 20 cryptocurrencies are up...they are all trading lower which is interesting because the last rally nearly every cryptocurrency moved in lockstep....iota coin is now down over 30%!!!!
  336. Maybe people are shifting out of the other minor ones and piling into the big daddy?

  337. I wouldn't think that to be the case...the others have less than 1/10th the market cap that Bitcoin has... .I'm just finding it very weird.....and what hapoens during the next $3000&$5000 sell off in Bitcoin, will that drive down the other top 20 by 30-50%???
  338. Can you say FIFTEEN THOUSAND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Mania schania crybabies.
  339. S2007S, that post sounded like you jizzed in your pants last week when Bitcoin fell from 11,000 to 9,000, even though you weren't even short.
  340. Exactly what v happened during Bitcoin cash and segwit fork rumors
  341. $0-$1000 1789 days
    $1000-$2000 ?
    $2000-$3000 ?
    $3000-$4000 ?
    $4000-$5000 ?
    $5000-$6000 8 days
    $6000-$7000 13 days
    $7000-$8000 14 days
    $8000-$9000 9 days NOVEMBER 25th
    $9000-$10000 2 days
    $10000-$11000 1 day
    $11000-$12000 6 days
    $12000-$13000 17 HOURS
    $13000-$14000 3 HOURS
    $14000-$15000 10 HOURS
    $15000-$16000 ???

    The greed is insane..... waiting for the big collapse, going to be one hell of a ride, anyone shorting with futures next week is going to get a huge pay day....
  342. Hey guys, Bitcoin is over $16,000 each on Coinbase/GDAX. Yay.

    Sorry I was asleep when it hit $15,000 :vomit:

    [Btw, blame the (S.) Koreans for this huge rally as they are buying bitcoins there like there's no tomorrow at the Bithumb exchange. They were buying bitcoins yesterday at over $17K each, today they are paying over $18K and that exchange has the highest volume worldwide]

  344. Are there exchange controls in South Korea or is this an arb?
  345. Anybody with a gdax account should open an account on bitstamp and do the arb. Unfortunately trying to open an account at gdax is currently producing an error message.
  346. I don't know the answer.

    Bitcoins at one exchange are different from another exchange and they don't share the same supply so if the Koreans are buying and paying whatever price on that exchange, there's just not enough supply at lower prices so they keep paying higher and higher prices as Bithumb sources from other exchanges and pushinghigher prices from say GDAX. That's my very basic guess at the situation.
  347. I shorted BTC at 15,500. its so overbought right now.
  348. Do you have a stop? It's over $16,700 on GDAX right now and over $19K on Bithumb (Korean exchange).
  349. No stop. I'm on Bitfinex and prepared to take a bit of heat. This level is not sustainable.
  350. I don't understand why people would want to short this thing, it's just a whole different beast.
  351. Bitcoin is a bitcoin buy them at bitstamp transfer to gdax sell move fiat back to bitstamp repeat.
  352. Have you done it? If not, go ahead and try...
  353. Market dynamics still apply to Bitcoin. It follows the same rules as any other liquid market.

    The amateurs are buying at this level, the big players are all short.
  354. This is not an unusual situation at all if you have followed the cryptos very long
  355. Hello, Bitcoin is over $17,000 each on Coinbase/GDAX. Yay.

    [are we having fun, yet? :sneaky:
  356. My left side of gdax.com just gave up on the bid-ask. Stuck at 14,430.
    Once 17k hit, wow from 17,000 to 17,200 to 17,450. Bounced all over, didn't even bother with the other numbers in between. Now at 17,600.
  357. Hey now, Bitcoin is over $18,000 on Coinbase/GDAX. Yay
  358. Bitstamp/gdax arb goes to $3000+
  359. Coinbase premium is insane when compared to other exchanges!!!
    You can't even get an accurate price with all different prices on each exchange...
  360. Gdax is broken. Way tooo many FOMO's

  361. I'm really pondering what the exit is going to look like when it finally reverses....

    Imagine being the sucker who paid a premium on coinbase just to see it immediately collapse, guy could be down $3000-$5000 in 24 hrs
  362. Hello Party People. Bitcoin is over $19,000 each on Coinbase/GDAX

    [GDAX has crashed, though, lol. Get faster servers, dude]
  363. Constant updates reminds me of "Hey Kids, Big Ben, Parliament"

  364. Fools game !!! This is just the mentality that says I have to get in because everyone else is buying....when kids in middle school are talking bitcoin the collapse is coming!
  365. 19340 just a few mins ago on coinbase looks like the high...now it looks like it's at 18040!!!
  366. Oh shit, here's the crash the bubble callers are waiting for :wtf: $16,600 on Coinbase, :D

  367. Haaaa

    Is it unfolding!!

    Glad it's during the day so I can see it unfolding in real time
  368. Down $3000 in minutes....

    Fools game!
  369. Ethereum falling hard as well along with litecoin on coinbase
  370. Bro, your perspective is messed up. It's up over $3K before I went to sleep. , but whatever makes you happy, lol. $17,700 on Coinbase/GDAX
  371. I tried selling in the $18k area....coinbase app not working...wonderful lol. Oh well
  372. Hell, my open longs in equity futures was +$2K on Monday. I decided to hold and they were down to -$6,600 at some point yesterday morning, now back up to about $-1K. Same kind of swings, just over a couple of days, not couple of minutes. I might have enough gumption to buy one of these stupid BTC futures in a week and a half...

    NAH! Screw that! :)

  373. What happened to all that talk about Tethers driving BTC price?
  374. Fast market situation. It's back to $16K now... I have nothing on exchanges, all local wallets, but watching the action and having fun. I have no plans to sell.

  375. Typical on the downside when everyone is looking to sell....that's just the beginning, wait till it really collapses and everyone wants out.....why be the fool who waits for it to drop to finally sell when you can sell when everyone is buying and everything is calm.

  376. That's been in the news the last few days ...I have no idea what it's about but that news is unfolding... supposingly they have $814,000,000....are people calling this a conspiracy....
  377. Eh, it was having issues on the way up too, just really slow to load. It's money I can afford to lose, so not the end of the world. I was just going to sell some for a vegas trip this weekend lol

  378. Read this yesterday...not new news today....it happened a couple of days ago
  379. Really? Bitstamp and Bitfinex never crossed 16K... That is almost 20% difference between exchanges.

    Coindesk's high was 16585.
  380. 16260 on coinbase now....I'm not going by the prices any longer on their site since they are simply creating a premium due to demand......

  381. Exactly...cnbc had a headline up stating it crossed $19000 on the coinbase exchange..... this is getting absurb
  382. Bithumb is still over $19,000 for each bitcoin. South Koreans just buy like crazy and putting everyone to shame...

  383. That's also why others are having problems selling on that exchange because of the premiums people are buying it for....do you really think the exchange is going to let you sell at 18500 when the actual cryptocurrency isn't even above $17000 on other exchanges....they are really making this a game
  384. Coinbase just popped up saying "Bitcoin sales are temporarily disabled" lol

  385. That's ridiculous.....

    Shows you who's running the show.....all this new crazy technology and they still can't get it right ...any excuse to calm the selling but I believe this is just the beginning....with over 13 million accounts there that's a pretty unfair way to play.
  386. iRS wants your Bitcoin profits....yes that decentralized...off the grid, no middle man fairly tale magical coin that you made some bucks on.... well now you owe uncle sam....

    Basically, the tax agency views bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies as property and not currency for tax purposes. And although you may not receive a Form 1099 from whatever exchange you trade on, you remain responsible for paying taxes on gains.

  387. It's worth what others will pay for it. Currently thats about 15,000 usd. Hardly worthless.
  388. 30 mins now and not a single trade in Bitcoin on coinbase

    Showing no movement at allllll

    Must suck for those who jumped in on the euphoria....

    Now it's falling and they can't even sell!!!!
  389. Neke. I like your posts and you make some points here but when will that happen? In the meantime onwards and upwards.

    BTW - if you look at the origins of BTC there is a reasonable chance it was crested by the NSA anyway. May have encryption backdoor to catch the big fish and / or prelude to central bank electronic currency to track you all.

  390. The world's largest bitcoin exchanges by trade volume are reporting significantly varying prices as the cryptocurrency's price soars to new all-time highs, market data shows.

    In some cases, the differences amount to more than $2,000 in value, particularly among some of the most voluminous exchanges.

    On Coinbase's GDAX exchange, for example, the price of bitcoin is trading above $18,259.00 as of press time. This value represents a significant premium over the price currently being reported on Bitfinex, where bitcoin is trading at $15,592.
  391. Back up to almost $17k
  392. Bro, you don't have a position on bitcoin but your stress level is just so high. Relax. Breathe in, breathe out. Coinbase shows the price $16,900. Relax. :rolleyes:

  394. A magic coin made out of thin air worth as much $300 billion

    Haaaa haaaaa

  395. It cannot have an earnings miss! There will never be more issued.
  396. Had anyone seen this....more no name stocks riding the cryptourrencies hype just like the dot com hype....

    CRCW on the OTC market is up huge today

    Trading around $150 up 76% today

    CRCW.....came out of no where and went from $10 to $175 ...pinksheet stock that is worth $3 billion....haaaaaaaa

    Everyone is taking full advantage of this bubble now...this is what a bubble is...and no it's not different this time around...
  397. Can't short CRCW

    Can't short GBTC


  398. Yeah, I bought a few thousand in the 20's but I forgot to mention it here. I think I posted about it on sillycon investor
  399. Wrong . They issued btc cash and btc gold tripling the supply .

    They can fork it anytime they wish adding more supply .

    And even if it's limited that doesn't warrant the price . Ltc is limited for example .
  400. A lot of weird looking charts out there for today, but this one is special:


    And it felt like it made sense during the run!
  401. But most people who do not have coin at an exchange will ever collect the fork. It is complicated.

  402. No idea how accurate that is.
  403. I real actual LOL after reading this.
  404. Bitcoin tops record $19 000.

    4 phases of a bull market:
    reluctance phase
    digestion phase
    acceptance phase
    exuberance phase <<< we are now here.
    In this phase, the price is going up at 89 degree slope.

    soon we will be going through phases of a bear market :

    the distribution phase <<< coming soon.
    public participation phase
  405. I'm just pissed I never jumped on board.
  406. this is just all CRAZY!!! I have been in the markets for decades.... never seen anything like this... even the dot com stuff was nothing like this... just mind boggling
  407. It's less than the Bitcoin nov-2013 run and much less than the 2011 run. It's just Bitcoin doing its thing.
  408. So today bitcoin tore a hole in the space-time continuum. Is this good or bad?
  409. I'm afraid we are now off track... we will miss the Moon... oops!
  410. hehe
  411. Who are "they"? Does not sound to me like the free-of-central control/manipulation currency it was sold as.
  412. I realize that this is a serious question. The increase from a low of 800 in Jan to 8,000 just two weeks ago did not surprise us bitcoin believers. But to have more than doubled that 8,000 to 17,000 in the last two weeks is a bit of a surprise even to us. This is a long thread but in my post #344 on page 35 I explained why Bitcoin is NOT in a bubble. It looks like this is the breakout of acceptance of Bitcoin by the "investment class" people and going beyond just us bitcoin nerds. It has such a long way to go as evidenced by the sampling of the ET population.

    As I count it there are only 4 of us who have believed in Bitcoin for a while now. The rest on this thread are having fun with us with their tulip mania talk and the whole of ET are not even interested in what is being said here.

    In truth they know nothing of why and how the blockchain technology will be changing our world much like the internet did in its adoption phase and why bitcoin will continue to increase in value as it is just beginning its adoption phase as a store of wealth. The more dire the world becomes the more it will flock to Bitcoin. The investment opportunity of a lifetime is passing most of ET by. The amazing thing is this: It is still not too late, don't wait until bitcoin hits 6 figures.
  413. Yea, I agree with this big time. People saying it's a bubble, middle-school children's parents buying (yea, sure, you believe this 3rd/4th hand anecdote from a friend of the teacher), etc, etc, but here on ET, the best of the best investment speculators (/s), we are clearly outnumbered by the nay-sayers.

    I have bitcoins in my local wallets so they are not available in any exchange, how many bitcoins are out there (minus the lost keys, minus the Satoshi bitcoins) and how many people worldwide are wanting to own 1 full bitcoin? I think only 12-13M bitcoins are out there.

    Coinbase/GDAX shows price is $17,000+ for each bitcoin but Bithumb (S. Korea), they are paying over $21,000 per bitcoin and bigger volume than GDAX. There's just not enough supply as (imo) majority of the holders don't have their bitcoins on the exchanges.

    When the wall street $ (i.e. Institutional investors who have been bugging the heck out of their brokers) wanna buy in, they will pay much, much higher prices for this new, uncorrelated investment asset to hedge their wealth valued in fiat that is constantly being debased by central bankers worldwide. Not even physical gold offers that hedge.
  414. neke, with all due respect, what was the price of bitcoin when you first posted (<$10K, I believe)? Had you done your research and not be swayed by the majority experts calling bitcoin bubble, bubble, bubble, you would be sitting on a position that can withstand a big correction. I'm just saying.

    Those other currencies are called fork coins (of bitcoin). They are "free". This thread, however, is only about the bitcoin price. The one that CME, CBOE, Nasdaq, futures will be based on. The one that is currently priced at over $17,000 each on Coinbase/GDAX. Don't let the misdirection being perpetuated by the other naysayers influence your research.

    I do believe we've lost you as the price has gotten away from you. Perhaps if bitcoin will go back to less than $10K when the futures open. Or perhaps you'll be on the shorts side of the trade. Good luck all the same.

  416. Accompanying lyrics (feel free to sing along!):

    (Hold on) hold on
    (Hold on) hold on
    Ooh, aah, bitcoin
    hold on
    (Hold on) ooh ooh aah
    The only way is up, bitcoin
    For you and me now
    The only way is up, bitcoin
    For you and me now

  417. Yes, 10K to 17K. That will withstand the correction? Just laughing. You think bitcoin is a Microsoft, that a 40% correction is abnormal. What about 99.9% correction on the way to extinction? - no I am not saying this week, or next.
  418. I have resisted replying in this thread for a long time because frankly, nobody knows anything. Those guys calling for tops are clearly not taking into account mass hysteria, but the perma bulls are also I think very ignorant to the fact of how much can go wrong with this. All you really need is regulation in the US to shut it down, or even some major hiccup by one of these big exchanges. Seriously, anything can go wrong at any time and given the fragmented nature of all of this, there will be no rescue, unlike more traditional investments or holdings.

    I also wonder how any of this can have mass appeal when I read about the amount of computer power and electricity that is needed in order to facilitate these transactions. Its a total joke to assume there will be any large scale adoption given these technical issues, and its also a joke to think that governments around the world will not one day come down hard.

    Clearly, until something happens, it can keep going up to the moon because all you need is some sucker to pay more, so there could be lots of money still to be made on this parabolic rise, but those guys who sit there with their coins on their computers and not in their wallets might one day find they have something with absolutely no value in the blink of an eye.

    I find it quite ironic that in order to trade this, you need to have your coins in a wallet, but while they are in a wallet, they aren't all that safe. There will be lots of people screwed in the end, the guys holding to the very bottom, so the only true winners will be the ones who are lucky to get out. I never hear of anyone selling though. I only hear people excited cause the price is going up, but until you sell and get cold hard cash in your hand, you really don't have anything and shouldn't be excited. Too many exchanges have problems when activity heats up, and during the down move when people want to get out, that's exactly when you want to log in to sell. So it seems to me that this thing is going up only because the long side is the only way to trade this. But once enough people want to take profits, which you clearly have to do at some point, there is no telling how this will end.

    To assume that this wont end, to assume that this thing will be mass adopted despite the technical challenges, and to assume that the governments wont do anything about this is really like hoping your lottery numbers come up. The blockchain technology is separate from BTC, and really, I don't see that much use for it when you need shit loads of computer power to get it done. Besides, even if the blockchain technology takes off, there is no guarantee that BTC will go along for the ride. Back when the internet was new and hot, Netscape and AOL were major players, but where are they now? BTC can also be finished, even if the technology gets adopted in some other form.

    So in the mean time, I'm not calling for a top, but I'd like to hear after it all ends where the perma bulls stand. Maybe they will be lucky and cash out at 100k, but if they are hanging on for 1 million and it crashes and disappears before then, I hope we get that update too. Not everyone will be a BTC winner.
  419. Actually it is the exact opposite of what you say. Those who have coins in the private wallets get the forks and those on the exchanges are not guaranteed to get the fork.
  420. It's ok, we'll agree to disagree, but you didn't ask me how I know you did not perform any meaningful research, because your arguments are superficial and not at all technical in nature. Good luck with your trades.
  421. I have no dog in the fight here.
    Just one question-
    What if the G7 plus Russia and China announce tomorrow that trading or buying goods with BTC/crypto is a felony?
    I know it sounds impossible, but countries and governments will do anything to defend their currency.
    I think that could happen when they develop their own cryptos
  422. I don't know about the other hodlers, but this is the thing that scares me the most.

    There are more and more signs that bitcoin will not be banned like the internet poker sites, but still there are no guarantees. I do welcome the bitcoin futures and hope it's very successful so the lawmakers don't get any hostile ideas.
  423. You make some good points, and some I disagree with, but I do thank you for a very thought out and intelligent response. This is what should happen here on ET --- a discussion on all aspects of the situation.
  424. The regulations are a big concern as I put on the previous post. Japan has already put in their legal system that bitcoin is valid currency. China doesn't have the same effect. I doubt Russia will either. G7 or the US, yea, that would be bad.

    As far nation cryptos, forget about it. It won't work. Why? Because no one's going to use it. Oh, but it's legit approved by the country? Yea, it's the same as their current money, there's no point to having a crypto issued by the same country. Tbh, I'm waiting for the first one to be issued to see if I'm right.
  425. Thanks John
    Good luck. HODL! LOL
  426. There's a discussion on Reddit about this. Definition of a financial institution being applied to individuals seems far-fetched and there's division in the reddit comments with some suggesting it's for businesses. I'm on a wait and see mode...
  428. Read this proposal from Swedes central bank

  429. A better investment would be to plough your spare dough into electricity companies.
  430. "What if the bitcoin rally is the prelude to the execution of one of the most obvious arbitrages in the market ..."


    The smartest bitcoin trade in town?

    By: Izabella Kaminska

    Over the last week or so, we’ve recounted the problems with bitcoin’s market structure and how they are likely to impact the upcoming launch of bitcoin futures (here, here and here).

    In the course of explaining the structural difficulties, we’ve pointed out how the capacity of market makers and bi-directional traders to support the product is crucial if bitcoin futures are ever to become a success. Currently, this is unlikely to happen because there is no easy way to play both sides of the market without taking on huge amounts of credit, fragmentation, illiquidity and hacker risk on the physical side.

    As it stands, CFD and spread-betting houses are the ones mostly attempting to provide this bridging role. Problem is, even they are struggling to process the risk — and that’s despite being much less intensively supervised than the more established players who would usually be interested in servicing futures markets.

    Some sort of risk-absorbing entity, as a consequence, must appear if retail and institutional participants (who are used to fiduciary standards) are to step into the market in size.

    As a result, there are only three possible scenarios from here on in:

    1. The futures (plagued by illiquidity and non convergence with the underlying) flop.
    2. The lack of a market-maker redistributing one-sided risk back into the market will see the risk transferred elsewhere, most likely into the clearing house (to the risk of the entire trading community).
    3. A less established player with a greater tolerance for risk — possibly a natural long — steps into the fray.
    The third option doesn’t necessarily prevent the second option from playing out, however, given such an entity would still have to be serviced by the CME/CBOE clearing systems.

    Nevertheless, let’s imagine such an entity exists. What would its game plan be? And why would it think it could handle the risk?

    The easy answer to the second question is that it may have spotted an arbitrage it thinks could more than compensate for the risk at hand.

    As to the game plan…

    If you’re gunning to be the only entity in town prepared to sell bitcoin futures, it would be in your interests to start “pre-hedging” physical bitcoin as soon as possible with a view to locking in a risk-free basis return once the ability to sell futures on a regulated venue becomes possible.

    Ideally, the trade would require an average purchasing price that’s much lower than the rate bitcoin futures would eventually be sold at. To maximise this trade, as much value would have to be ploughed into the purchase (or generation) of bitcoin ahead of time, as likely buyside demand for the futures once launched.

    In terms of timing, due to bitcoin’s illiquidity, a “pre-hedging” position of this size would no doubt take time to put on. From that perspective it would make sense to start purchases as soon as a futures contract looked even remotely viable. FWIW, according to Factiva, the first serious clue CME was looking into a listing came in November 2016 when it launched a pair of indexes designed to track the virtual currency’s price. The CFTC’s decision in July to allow LedgerX to run a swap execution facility for bitcoin options, meanwhile, was a likely indicator a futures contract could be approved soon as well:

    Nevertheless, no matter how strategically planned, pre-hedging of this size is always bound to leave a market footprint. (Especially in a market as illiquid as bitcoin.)

    With that, the sort of self-fulfilling feedback loop that usually occurs when someone attempts to corner a market probably comes into motion.

    For many, sparking a feedback loop of this kind is often deemed a trading objective in and of itself. Not for a bonafide smart operator. The smart money understands a good trade is as much about executing the “out” as it is about positioning the “in”. You can start a pump, but you can’t always profitably orchestrate the dump.

    Hence why the futures component of the trade cannot be under emphasized.

    Without the certainty of a properly regulated marketplace defending the futures side of the equation, a payoff cannot be guaranteed. It’s why the arbitrage exists in the first place: the trade cannot be exercised elsewhere in the bitcoin ecosystem because the risk of counterparty default at the first sign of distress is far too great. You’d win the trade, but you’d probably lose the payout.

    If a regulated futures market takes that risk away, however, the trade becomes a no-brainer if not a mastermind opportunity.

    Which is arguably where we are now.

    Indeed — if such an entity does exist — only three possible risks that threaten the trade at this point:

    1. The futures launch is suspended unexpectedly, perhaps due to regulatory concerns or industry pushback?
    2. The anticipated futures demand never arrives because the margin costs of holding open long positions proves to be too great and/or liquidity is so shoddy nobody can trade effectively.
    3. The cash settled return on the futures leg, won’t necessarily be matched by the price achieved on the physical liquidation.
    One way or another, we will find out soon.
  431. Hoi - As someone who seems quite knowledgable about bitcoin and been involved for years what are your thoughts on the following:

    - When forks occur they don't change the fact that there will still be maximum of 21 M BTC. Is this hardcoded or fixed in another way ? What they do is spin off a new coin which can be traded separately, it has different properties but the value tends to be less than the original for BTC and more for Etherium. Either way people tend to congregate to what is perceived as the best "store of wealth" (don't laugh at the back ;o) and it becomes a self full filling prophecy with network effects.

    - Origins of bitcoin. Being shutdown by governments is often mentioned as a risk. China and Russia have been most active in this area. Why them and not the US ? What are your thoughts on the origin of bitcoin and stories like this ->

  432. What's going on with Bitcoin? Huge spreads but the price still runs
  433. OK, I'm always willing to answer serious questions, but currently very busy as well (so will keep it as short as possible).

    By default a crypto currency lives in an hostile environment, thousands of actors with as many ideas and motives, some evil, some saints. It's the consensus of the majority who decides which direction is taken, which code updates and innovations are implemented. Actually all rules coded in the current Bitcoin software can be modified, if and only if the majority (including you and me) agree it's a good thing to do. Even the 21 M limit could, but I'm very sure no majority will ever do that: the incentives are too high.
    Once in a while (we have had about 5 minor and 1 major fork already) there is a considerable number of people (but much less than 50%) who decide to split off, and go their own way with some modification they believe it's the way to go, but is not accepted by the majority. Nothing stands in their way to do just that: copy the blockchain-history and run their own software code on it. A new Alt-coin is created, and any one who had coins in the copied history-chain, has new coins as well > everybody happy!

    In 2013 governments (especially USA) already analyzed the threat but also the huge opportunities this new FinTech industry could bring. They decided at that time it was best to regulate it in a way that the sharp edges would be solved without pinching off the innovation and job creation.
    But countries like China/Russia which have other agenda's, rather like to ban anything that hinders them.

    Not interested at all in who is the creator or conspiracy theories. Fact is that the current worldwide group of developers are the best in their field. Cryptology is rocket science and the best of them are working in Bitcoin on both sides: to hack it and the secure it. For 9 years already crypto-hackers are trying to unlock the $billions from this open-source code. And although it might be possible in future to find a temporary decryption (quantum computers?) it will never be able to unravel the whole blockchain and will be quickly or even preemptively solved by a software upgrade (not a fork).
  434. when price is going up at 89 degree, spread increases.

    if you calculcate spread in percent (spread / btc price), it might look decent.
  435. hope CME, CBOE, NASDAQ offers more btc derivatives like
    - BTC call / put options on futures
    - BTC VIX volatility index futures

    wonder if there are any other creative BTC derivatives like
    last day futures, TAS futures ...
  436. One of the spreadbetting houses here in London has announced 0% overnight funding on short positions in bitcoin. Evidently must be trying desperately to offset all the customers' longs.
  437. Hehe! Reminds me of the Hitler video craze from some time ago. Remember those?

    Funny stuff.

  438. Exactly..... that's why they did that, and I'm sure they will fork it again and again.....so in reality there isn't really a limited supply.

  439. Is that because it's in their wallet and not on an exchange that they can't collect the fork?
  440. Looks like at interactive brokers you will only be able to trade futures on the long side.....guess anyone looking to short is out of luck if they have an account at IB!!!!

    Peterffy has sounded alarms before about the dangers of bitcoin, but his firm is allowing traders access to the futures products as of Monday, at a 50 percent margin requirement. Traders will be able to take long positions only, at $5 a contract, and won't be able to take a short position, or a bet on a decline. The steep price per contract —normally the broker charges 25 cents to 80 cents a contract — is to pay Interactive for the risk, Peterffy said.
  441. Wedbush (@rmorse's firm) will support on Day-1, as will GS and ABN-AMRO (per WSJ).
  442. I agree it is not design for trading but interesting as one of few central banks taking serious look at electronic currency as replacement for traditional.
  443. Bitcoin Cash could explode in January to US$3,000+. Looks like $1,100 was the bottom of this recent pullback.
  444. Ummmmm...yea ok....$9 billion market cap

    Crypto Co
    Real Time Quote | Exchange | USD

    Last | 3:05:25 PM

    Prev Close149.00 52 Wk Low3.30
    Open229.00 52 Wk High507.00
    Day Low229.00 Volume7,465.00
    Day High507.00 Avg 10D Vol0.00
  445. There's goes litecoin....I knew it was going to rocket higher ....I'm sure that will be at a $1000 by Jan or February!
  446. Stop being so frustrated over nothing....it is the holidays...being short is insanity...so the only logical trade is NOTHING or LONG. Pick your poison. That is the truth.
  447. Yes. it could be very frustrating.
    it means we can't trade BTC through IB.
    not sure about other brokers.

    Look at it this way.
    If market is extremely volatile, it is extremely difficult to earn money actually.
    There will be many very long candles, movement will be very spiky / jerky.

    I wouldn't trade BTC for the next few weeks no matter how tempting it is.
    There are other financial instruments which are easier to trade and easier to earn money.
  448. As mentioned on another thread, CBOE sources say TradeStation, Advantage, RJO are offering the product to retail investors.
  449. As I said in an earlier post he has it backwards. The wallet holders do get the fork and those on the exchanges are at the mercy of the exchange as to whether they get the fork or not.
  450. Quick story-
    My girl is at her friends kids birthday party.
    She called me and said “do you know what crypto currency is”? (I LOL)
    She said that’s all everyone is talking about and all the kids put their savings into BTC using an App on their phones.

    Kids on cell phones buying unregulated fantasy currency.
    I just don’t see how this ends well.
    No way are world governments going to let this go on.
  451. Now that you have been exposed and have seen the poison, it is time to start asking yourself some very important questions. But only you can know what those questions are.

    :) Saddle up friend, it gets bumpy from here.

  452. The day may come soon for the Fed or even Trump to start with words like ban, stop, regulate, tax etc. that will cause a slump in the price. But ok for shorting on the bell curve.
  453. Here is another story:

    once a professional soccer player, the brother of my wife told me yesterday he became a millionaire on paper investing into an ICO called Populous. He got that stuff for 0.30 USD and now the stuff is trading at an "amazing" 30.14 USD.

    Do the math yourself!

    Now, he got my wife investing into this crap, too. And here it is where it "becomes" personal! My wife´s investment is up a sloppy 70% within 5 days of "commitment".

    I tried to explain the brother of my wife the basic concept of "liquidity", but he didn´t even listen. I saw greed in his eyes and his hands were sweating. He babbled something about the end of the problems of this world: end of poverty, end of starvation in the 3rd World...bla, bla, bla...

    Actually, I ordered my wife TGTFO (to get the f... out) of this "investment".

    If you read the White Paper from these guys - Jesus, hilarious WHAT business prospect these guys want to sell "investors". Only dreeamers can believe such crap!

    Here is the website: https://populous.co/
  454. Just as a reminder for all "dreamers" out there:

    The Internal Revenue Service (I.R.S) describes Virtual Currencies (VC)s as “a digital representation of value that functions as a medium of exchange, a unit of account, and/or a store of value [and] does not have legal tender status in any jurisdiction.” Although, electronic payment systems have been part of American life since at least 1871 when Western Union “introduced money transfer” through the telegraph and in 1914 “introduced the first consumer charge-card," virtual currencies differ from these digital payment structures because unlike traditional digital transfers of value, virtual currencies do not represent a claim on value; rather the virtual currency are the value.

    The National Automated Clearing House Association (NACHA), through the Automated Clearing House (ACH) “moves almost $39 trillion and 22 billion electronic financial transactions each year. These electronic transfers of money through the ACH Network represent a claim to physical legal tender. Alternatively, “unlike electronic money, a VC, particularly in its decentralised variant, does not represent a claim on the issuer.”

    Good luck to all "investors"! You will need it!

    Fiat money multi-millionaire
  455. Pfff.. if that makes you the all knowing beholder.

  456. There is a forum with 500,000 subscribers. Many of whom have jumped on the band wagon overnight.


    Another with 118,000 subs


    And they're all buyers. Because the market only moves one direction, right? To top it off, the popular opinion is to shit on those who suggest otherwise. (Not that I would try such a thing. Just that I've seen it happen).

    The 2017 party is going to end with a lot of people getting hurt.
  457. I joined that forum in 2013 when it was 90.000 subscribers. And have it seen growing with hard-core educated believers until 300.000 members beginning this year. Indeed the last few months the inflow of 100.000 newbies and gold-diggers didn't do this forum any good.

    No it doesn't. As those newbies are educated by the seasoned members, not to panic, not to invest more than you can lose, and to HODL.

    Anyone who is Bitcoin educated (which you aren't yet) knows that we are just beginning, that it will go with lots of ups and downs. We know it's a S-curve technology.

  458. FWIW I may regret it but sold equivalent to original cash investment at 16,000 yesterday. Bought in at 2,000 few months ago. Not sure what is going to happen next week. May buy back at 10,000 otherwise just hodl :)
  459. Stupid hypothetical delusional graph , everyone has their own version , i may paint you a better one in my spare time .
  460. The 'Insider Information Counter' is saying that Bitcoin will double.
    1 Bitcoin will be worth 2 bits!!
  461. It is in the interest of the believers to pump as much as possible. And dump later.
    As bitcoins are pure thin air, the only thing that can cause prices to go up is find new people who want to join, pay very expensive prices, huge risk, and take the hit when things go wrong. In that way the believers protect their own investment. That is the only reason why believers post all over that prices will go much higher. Prices will go up before they go down, and nobody can predict a crash or when it will happen. But the same is true for predicting the future profits.

    I know people, who became (based on the value of their portfolio) millionaire investing in stocks, that lost all they have in the following crash. History repeats itself.
  462. This is my fear... Conservative Hawks who see their bottom line hurt or missed the train will scream free market but will be the first to yell "ban it, these people are idiots who need protection from their decisions."
  463. “We’re seeing more calls coming in and asking for information and confirmation that we plan to support this product than for any futures launch in recent history,” said Nick LaMaina, a senior vice president at TradeStation, an online brokerage that plans to support both exchanges’ products. (WSJ)
  464. No one's gone broke from taking a profit.
  465. Bulls or bears? I'm thinking mostly uninformed bulls..... I'm more afraid of the informed bears with corporate pockets.... But they wouldn't be wasting time on the phone.
  466. @Hoi ....wait..so you are of the belief that those kids at the birthday party are educated in the pros and cons of BTC ? the millenniums at 1am in the bar buying on their iphone ? the masses of s. Korean's ?
  467. It is like an IPO. Lots of people are curious, millions ask info, but the IPO can still fail. Asking information costs nothing and never gives a credible idea about the real potential.

    On auto shows, a lot of expensive car manufacturers don't admit joe average anymore on their stands as it is clear that everybody is interested in a Ferrari, Lambo or Aston Martin. But 99,99% will never buy. They just are curious, and there is no real system filtering out the REAL interested and potential candidates.

    If Tradestation would ask $25 for some documentation probably 75% of the mass will not pay for it. Showing how much they are really into these futures.

    Have an open door in the house of Beyonce for free and millions will go and watch. Ask an entry fee and millions will never come.
  468. You cannot read? Can you?

    I wrote that the 300.000 members before Jan-1 of this year, know very well where they into.
  469. No not at all, but you miss the intellect to understand where the Bitcoin movement is coming from. The believers do really believe they will change this Keynesian BS into an Austrian economy. They want to get rid off the debt-bubble.

    Pump and Dump mentality, you only see at trader-forums like ET.

  470. I'm telling you my friend is a teacher and I will repeat the story again....these kids are in middle school and she told me they talk about bitcoin all the time...they said their parents talk about it at home and started invested in it.....so these stories are getting very wild probably more wild than the dot com stories back in 1999!!!!!

    It is fantasy fairytale money that is created out of thin air.... people are making any excuse to buy one of the 1000+ cryptocurrencies
  471. @Hoi.. Hey, don't be so rude. I was commenting on all the previous posts leading up to and including yours. The general context being there are a lot of uneducated buyers in this rally.

    side note: love all the "tough guys with the tough talk" and snarky come backs on the internet.
  472. Sorry !

  473. 300,000

    Coinbase has over 13 million people now...looks like 98%+ haven't a clue what bitcoin is....they are just hyped by the euphoria of what's happening in the skyrocketing price and the non stop articles all over the internet.......
  474. Experts agree that what happens now is completely different from what the bitcoin was invented for. So I advice you to read that lecture too.
    Almost all coins are hold and not used for payments. A huge percentage of the transactions has to do with crime. Those who buy have speculative reasons. Speculation was never a goal for the bitcoin.

    Probably, but I have enough intellect to beat your Bitcoin ROI trading other products. And even at a much better risk/reward ratio. Intellect is only good if it is in the important areas, there where the conditions to make money are favourable.

    Correct, that's why YOU are on ET. Pump and dump. What other reason is there for you to be on a traders forum?
  475. What was the high on Bithumb?, i saw almost $23000 at one point but it could have been higher. At the moment it is 14500 on bithumb. So thats $8500 down in S Korea.
  476. hodl?
  477. $13,800 on Coinbase/GDAX. This will shake some trees :D
  478. Down down and sinking......down under 14000......
    Better hope it flips back up.....
  479. And all those who rushed in on the hype on Thursday...ouch.....the big amount of money lost will come under 10000 where most new people bought Bitcoin just around Thanksgiving....
  480. In casino's that's normal, business as usual.
  481. Wrong, the same is happening in 2017 as what was the case in 2010, 2011 and 2013. First a high grow in value, thereafter a spending phase as currency and inflow of shops that accept Bitcoin (to profit from the new wealth to spend).
    All happening as intended.

    Correct, we are in the grow phase again. A phase it's best to not spend coins until it stabilizes at the next level.

    Wrong. It's a low percentage, not very different to the percentage in Dollar-crimes

    Wrong. The whole 21 million limit is intentionally built into it to get its total value in the $trillions to become a currency on a global scale.

    Wrong. Show me your 166 times ROI in 4 years time and I show you mine. And my risk was none as I very well understood what huge potential it had and still has. I even had no single dollar drawdown during those 4 years (bought hugely at $100 and it went never below that level again).

    Wrong. I'm here from 2002 as I built and sell trading software.
  482. You still haven't understood that huge Hedgefunds are buying every single dip, huh?
    The big wallstreet guys want in, but there aren't coins enough, so each and every dip is heaven for them. In no time the price is back up again.

    Think about it: if each millionaire around the world wants to have one single coin, they are out of luck, because there are more millionaires than coins. Now what will happen when huge Hedge funds need thousands of coins? That's the reason of last half years of bull market, not that Joe Public is participating as well.
  483. "hedgefunds are buying...." can you post your source of this opinion ?
  484. Was I right about the short? It's getting a bit boring getting it right every time, it would be more interesting if I got it wrong occasionally.
  485. There are more than 120 Hedgefunds focused on crypto currencies already.
    Google for instance: Mike Novogratz who is currently initiating a new fund of 500 million. Maybe you can still participate.
  486. yes.."focused on cc". And again...you know they are buying the dip in the cash market how ?

    I won't even belabor the point that most hedged funds need to use huge leverage to make their business model work. They maybe planning to participate in the futures market starting this Sunday, I believe. This could be with a long or short bias.

    btw.."initiating" is lingo for raising money. Not putting it to work.
  487. Just watch the tape! Each and every time we drop, it's bought with huge volume.

    See just the last 30 minutes (on just one exchange):

  488. and the seller was ???? it is not BOUGHT with volume, it is traded with volume. a 2 sided transaction.
  489. Stop orders from inexperienced ET-traders
  490. That's correct: this money will come to market from January-1.
    But Novogratz is probably already frontrunning it with his own money (I would).
  491. What ever you need to do to rationalize it.
  492. another assumption....not to get personal, but do you notice the trend ? good luck with it.
  493. No that's actually what is happening on all markets, and especially here where so many newbies are trying to trade. The big guys push the quote through some lines to hit an avalanche of stop-orders and then buy in cheaply.
  494. I'm doing very well, thank you!

    And no! Not an assumption. Novogratz told media himself that he bought the dip on November 12, with $20 million own money.
  495. Yet another assumption....read some Taleb.

    You are all over the place, now you are comparing BTC to a mature, liquid market.
  496. Of course I read Taleb.
    I built trading software as profession, and know very well where I'm talking about. You on the other hand don't understand anything from crypto-currencies and I doubt your knowledge in the trading field.

    Also read 2 posts back, as I think you missed my proof about Novogratz
  497. OK, you win ! You are the BSD of the internet forum ! Hoi, the all knowing king of BTC, hedge fund intentions and world historian ! You the man Hoi.
  498. Thank you, that's what I wanted to hear :sneaky: Now I sleep well tonight...
  499. I beat you hands down. But I am not stupid and will not say exactly by how much. Your compounded ror is 259% a year. If we take your return on january,1 2017 at a price of $773 your 166 becomes less then 9. Your compounded ror is then 106% a year. 2017 was a lucky shot. We will see if this pace can continue.

    As daytrader mine is much higher and stable over the years. I always do over 100% a month on the amount that I invest in daytrading. And that amount is surely bigger than your initial investment in bitcoins.

    Your risk was none???? What a stupid statement. You only knew that your risk was at max a total loss, all the rest you could not know with certainty.

    You built and sell trading software???? LOL. You just proved that you don't even know what "drawdown" is. You had several big drawdowns. Those who know what a drawdown is will confirm.
    "Hugely" is also a word without any meaning. For some 2 coins is huge, for others 100 coins is small money.
  500. 100% every month??? Nothing...this is ELITEtrader not AverageTrader. Anything less than 1000% or month is disregarded.
  501. I already told him that when he sold his Bitcoin Cash for peanuts and made it sound like a win-win.
  502. Your full of shit. Show me that you made $16.000 per $100 in 4 years.
    And indeed, I agree 100 coins is nothing!
  503. The Bulgarian government have 213,000 btc they confiscated 6 months ago. At current prices that is 20% of their debt. Could get interesting if they sell.
  504. The Japanese government also going to sell the MtGox coins, because legally they reimburse in yens, not in cryptos. That is 400 mill worth of coins coming to the market next to you...
  505. ??? I still own Bcash, as well as Bitcoin Gold.

    I exchanged some Bcash for BTC, which was a good trade.
  506. Yes, selling for $300 when it's going to be $3,000 next month was a good deal.
  507. I just looked it up. I exchanged some Bcash at 0.07, 0.08, 0.12, 0.18, 0.20, 0.22, 0.17, 0,15. On average around 0.14 BTC ($1900), while it CURRENTLY is standing on 0.0933 ($1306).

    So YES, a good deal.
  508. Do you have any predictions for Bitcoin next week?
  509. moon
  510. There is no moon only Zuul.
  511. Hate to rain on your party fellas BUT
    1. The expected amount of electricity wastage from coin mining will likely stuff the grid completely.
    2. Professional criminals are having a great time money laundering dirty money etc.
    3. School kids and too many adult dummies are throwing their money away.

    Lets hope the Fed shuts it down permanently.
  512. That could only happen if Bitcoin price rises above $10 million a coin. Not likely!

    Any intelligent person knows that $$$ laundry dwarfs B.

    How is that so if you believe point-1 above?

    Sure: close the Internet down, and not only in the USA, but the whole world?
  513. Dream on.

    Lighting Network will make Bcash obsolete.
  514. What about Litecoin?
  515. Litecoin follows, or in Segwit's case even leads, Bitcoin developments. So it will going to use Lightning-network (layer 2) innovations as well.

    Bcash cannot as it has no Segwit.
  516. Makes sense. LTC looks promising then.

    What do you attribute towards Bcash's price rise?
  517. It's a pump from Roger Ver and his puppets. Once his money is gone, Bcash will stay in a price range from 0.05 to 0.10 BTC
  518. They were all buying BTC like hotcakes at 16-18,000 but don't want to touch it at a good buy price of 13,000? Someone please explain...
  519. Simple human psychology , if it drops more they will ignore it more , humans chase prices and they follow each other - momentum - . Thats exactly what happens everytime with penny stocks bubbles .

    Remember Silver a few years back , same story , they dont want to touch it at the moment .
  520. 2011 Silver, is still the same metal as it is now. No added features.

    2011 Crypto currencies on the other hand are very different from today and will even more evolved and innovated in the future. Usefulness in many aspects is added and thereby its value for humanity.
  521. Ofcourse I wasn't comparing Bitcoin with silver , Bitcoin scam is useless and worthless .
  522. I am sure glad you don't have the ability to produce rain. You don't have to be sour grapes because you did not RSVP to the party.
  523. I would really like the authorities to get off their backsides and test out some of these coin makers. If they are legit - OK but some may not be.
    How easy is it to resell ?
  524. There are 3 US exchanges, Bittrex, Gemini and Coinbase that are legally able to facilitate the buying and selling of coins in USA. There may be more but I am familiar with these three. Prices are slightly different on each exchange because it is matching buyers and sellers on each exchange. So you just learn the platform of the exchange you want to participate with and "resell" to the highest bid at the time.

    This is a major reason why the price fluctuates so much. What most on ET just can not get their mind around is that every bitcoin in existence is already owned by someone and the core of those believers are long term holders. The market of "liquid" supply is thin so when whales like Richard Ver start selling in mass and then the newbees get scared and sell then you have big drops. But the core of old believers and new born believers step in and start buying. In Sept when Bitcoin dropped from $5,000 to $3,000 the buyers flooded in and it was back to $3,900 in a few hours.

    Another thing that the Tulip Bulb people do not understand (incidentally the first tulip is see emerging from the ground this Spring I am going to stomp it to smithereens) is that "new born believers" who have done their research on Bitcoin are being born everyday.

    There are a lot of totally worthless coins out there in fact most of them are just that, and are truly scams trying to take advantage of the unknowledgeable. But the two prominent ones (in my opinion) are Bitcoin and Litecoin. Some people refer to them as the Gold and Silver of the coin market. Bitcoin is the long term store of value and Litecoin has a faster transaction speed. On a private wallet you can easily exchange between the two.
  525. There are still a lot of uncertainties around LN. It requires locking large amounts of capital in channels to allow enough back and forth transactions to make it cheaper to use LN long term than transact directly on-chain. Too little capital and your channel becomes stuck with all coins on a single side.

    The best use case for LN is if your cash account remains within a tight range for long periods of time. Whenever if breaks from that range, you need to settle on chain and open new channels. I'm still skeptical and didn't give up on BCH yet.
  526. "Authorities" don't "test out" coin makers, any more than they "test out" pizza makers. They respond to public complaints.
  527. I agree it would be a real wonder if the very first version immediately worked as intended. It will have children's diseases and updates in code, just as the very first satoshi code is updated many times to the Bitcoin version we have now.
    Anyway the road to go to solve any scaling problem and high fee issues for the next 100 years, is to implement second and third layer software. Not by trying to put everything into 100 years growing big blocks on the first layer.
  528. If the Bulgarian government is able to dump their BTCs at current price, they could pay off 1/5th of their debt. That would create a precedent that hey, it is free confiscated money and other government could go after cyber criminals too in hopes of getting some free coins.

    Imagine if the US would sell confiscated heroin for charity...
  529. First trades in Bitcoin Futures about 1000$ higher as Bitcoin.
  530. BTC went up 1K in 5 minutes. For those who don't know how to watch here is a live chart:


    There was a heavy drop 90 minutes ago so we are kind of back where we started, around 15K on Bitstamp.
  531. TD Ameritrade has free real time quotes...
  532. Volume 126 so far. Meh...
  533. 5 min bars are 1000 points. Go get em boys!
  534. Bid offer spread nice and tight at 200 points. :)
  535. The Feb and Mar contracts are 3000 pts wide. LOL. So much for spread trading. :)
  536. Wall Street might not be late, they might may not be turning up at all!
  537. All one lots trading. No institutions touching this thing so far.
  538. Shoe shine operators have taken down the CFE website.
  539. If you are wondering...futures are trading at a 700 pt premium to cash!
  540. Its averaging volume about 5 or 6 contracts per minute on the T&S
  541. Coinbase or bitstamp?
  542. 1200 pt premium to bitstamp.
  543. Looks like January futures at 16k

  544. I have a bitstamp account but have had problems getting a coinbase account verified so cannot do the arb. IB will not let you short so I will have to get another futures broker to sell my coins at a premium.
  545. Volume up to 329. This would be equal to about 60 CME contracts. Meh...
  546. Uh oh....here come the Japanese house wives. They are dumping this thing. One lot at a time of course. :)
  547. The ET shorters are probably waiting for CME futures...
  548. The daily chart looks positive to me. A three day pullback to the moving average and trading above the thursday low.
  549. Japanese house wives pressing their shorts hard now.
  550. Though the wall of institutional money hasn't showed up.
  551. :D :D
  552. Wouldn't Mrs. Watanabe be trading coin at her local bitcoin exchange?
  553. 短いビットコイン

    Japanese translation: short bitcoin.
  554. Bid offer spreads tightening to 70 points. Get in there Pekelo!
  555. Uh oh...here come the Nigerian sellers!
  556. Exactly what point are you attempting to make here?
  557. Poverty volume would be my guess.
  558. Anyone have a link to bitcoin futures quotes?
  559. Any real time quotes?
  560. The CFE contract is based on the price at Gemini, which is much higher than the Bitstamp price

  561. You shorting the bitcoin futures, yet? You gonna make a killing, I just know it... :D
  562. To think that the following was only one year ago. Well, this may be the end of trading as we know it.

    But at the very least, it's the end of the trading year and we know it.