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Best move for Republicans to make?

  1. Here are the facts:
    Obama won the election. He won the popular vote and he won the electoral vote as well. He ran on raising taxes and his healthcare plan would be beneficial to all. He ran on continued regulation of markets, energy and business in general. These are the facts.
    So what to do? Let him have his way on all of it. No obstruction of any kind. His plan either works or it doesn't. Many republicans and hard line conservatives right here at ET have argued what we really need is a reset. The whole thing has to come apart before we can rebuild. If that's the case, and the true believers think that Obama policies will do that, then why wait? Should his policies actually bring on the collapse, republicans will retake the House, the Senate and the presidency, and will do so in a huge way. The rebuliding can begin.
    One little glitch in all this. If republicans are as wrong about this as they were about this past election...what if his plan works? Republicans are done for the foreseeable future. Decades in the political abyss. This is why they are still standing in the way. It ain't for country. It ain't for the people. It's because if they're wrong, it's over for them. So they either believe Obama's plan will bring on the collpase, or they don't. True believers should put the money where the mouth is. Stand aside a watch the collpase.
    Obama and his supporters claim his plan will work. So be it. Obama won and he should get his way. Every bit of it.
    Personally I think we're so far past the tipping point it really doesn't matter. We can delay, but we cannot avoid the coming collapse. I just think if the republican establishment is so damn sure of itself, then they should have no problem letting Obama have it all, stand back, and watch the show. True believing dem's should do the same.
  2. "Best move for Republicans to make? "

    maybe try sanity?
  3. You're avoiding the topic at hand. Should Obama get everything he's asking for, or not? Simple question.
  4. hes not asking for much. simply asking republicans to sit down and solve the debt problen too hard for them?
  5. How can they "solve" that when they are both part of the "problem"? :confused: :( :D
  6. Dems won 26 out of 34 races in the Senate. Half the Dem seats were up, more or less, and they not only managed to hold that, but gained a net 2 in the process.
    Unheard of would not be an inaccurate description of this result. No one expected it going into the campaign on Labor Day.
    The Republicans were handed a President with a semi-wobbly economy and managed to not only lose, but grab and pull defeat out of the jaws of victory with truly grim determination.
    The GOP did manage to hold onto the House with a decent majority there.
    So it seems like what the people voted for was mostly Obama, with what they hope is a non-skid brake in the House against the more way out stuff. Defining way out is going to be interesting given the results on marijuana legalization and same sex marriage.
    So, that's what should happen over the next two years. Whether that is what happens will depend on how everyone maneuvers in DC.
  7. Stand aside.

    The Dems won, let them handle it. They didn't need any Republican votes to pass Obamcare.
  8. 420K votes in 4 states go the other way and Romney is President.

    Give Obama the tax increase for incomes over 250K, Lock him out of any tax increase between 80k - 250k.

    The Dems have a big hard on to increase the rates from 35 to 39% for the earners over 250k, they will trade a lot for that concession.

    Most likely the incomes over 250k vote mostly democratic anyways
  9. I will assume that the OP, CO, is asking an honest question. Of course we'll see some nonsense, but IMO the GOP has to really define itself once again. Get rid of the Tea party, at least whatever is left of it, soften their stance on outdated social issues, mainly leave women and bedrooms alone. Focus on their strengths of old, fiscal responsibility, military strength, things that still carry some weight with a lot of voters. Lose the nutcases, stand behind the social moderates and fiscal conservatives. Or suffer a much longer time frame.
  10. the dems actually recieved more votes than the reps in congress but because of years of skillful gerrymandering the rep were able to keep those seats.
  11. It's going to happen mrbill. The GOP is waking up fast! Kudos to them.
  12. "Conservatives, don't despair
    By David Frum, CNN Contributor
    updated 7:10 AM EST, Mon November 12, 2012

    "Editor's note: David Frum, a CNN contributor, is a contributing editor at Newsweek and The Daily Beast. He is the author of eight books, including a new novel "Patriots" and his post-election e-book, "Why Romney Lost." Frum was a special assistant to President George W. Bush from 2001 to 2002.

    "Washington (CNN) -- The mood among American conservatives is now one of apocalyptic despair.

    "Having convinced themselves that this election arrayed freedom against tyranny, they now must wonder: Did their country just democratically vote in favor of tyranny?

    "On Fox News election night, BIll O'Reilly explained the meaning of the election: the "white establishment" was now outnumbered by minorities. "The demographic are changing. It's not a traditional America anymore." And these untraditional Americans "want stuff. They want things. And who is going to give them things? President Obama. He knows it, and he ran on it."

    "O'Reilly's analysis is echoed across the conservative blogosphere. The (non-white) takers now outnumber the (white) makers. They will use their majority to pillage the makers and redistribute to the takers. In the process, they will destroy the sources of the country's wealth and end the American experiment forever.

    "You'll hear O'Reilly's view echoed wherever conservatives express themselves.

    "Happily, the view is wrong, and in every respect.

    "America is not a society divided between "makers" and "takers." Instead, almost all of us proceed through a life cycle where we sometimes make and sometimes take as we pass from schooling to employment to retirement.

    "The line between "making" and "taking" is not a racial line. The biggest government program we have, Medicare, benefits a population that is 85% white.

    "President Barack Obama was not re-elected by people who want to "take." The president was re-elected by people who want to work -- and who were convinced, rightly or wrongly, that the president's policies were more likely to create work than were the policies advocated by my party.

    "The United States did not vote for socialism. It could not do so, because neither party offers socialism. Both parties champion a free enterprise economy cushioned by a certain amount of social insurance. The Democrats (mostly) want more social insurance, the Republicans want less. National politics is a contest to move the line of scrimmage, in a game where there's no such thing as a forward pass, only a straight charge ahead at the defensive line. To gain three yards is a big play.

    "Whatever you think of the Obama record, it's worth keeping in mind that by any measure, free enterprise has been winning the game for a long, long time to this point.

    "Compare the United States of 2012 to the United States of 1962. Leave aside the obvious points about segregation and discrimination, and look only at the economy.

    "In 1962, the government regulated the price and route of every airplane, every freight train, every truck and every merchant ship in the United States. The government regulated the price of natural gas. It regulated the interest on every checking account and the commission on every purchase or sale of stock. Owning a gold bar was a serious crime that could be prosecuted under the Trading with the Enemy Act. The top rate of income tax was 91%.

    "It was illegal to own a telephone. Phones had to be rented from the giant government-regulated monopoly that controlled all telecommunications in the United States. All young men were subject to the military draft and could escape only if they entered a government-approved graduate course of study. The great concern of students of American society -- of liberals such as David Riesman, of conservatives such as Russell Kirk, and of radicals such as Dwight Macdonald -- was the country's stultifying, crushing conformity.

    "Even if you look only at the experiences of white heterosexual men, the United States of 2012 is a freer country in almost every way than the United States of 1962.

    "Obama has changes in mind that conservatives and Republicans will oppose. He will want to raise taxes, he will want to sustain social spending at a permanently higher level, he has in mind new regulations over health care, energy production and banking. He'll win some, he'll lose some. To the extent that his wins prove injurious, future Republican Congresses and administrations will struggle to undo them. That's politics: a contest that never ends, and in which the only certainty is the certainty of constant change.

    "The Republican challenge next is to reassemble a new coalition for limited government and private enterprise. That coalition must include Americans of all ethnicities. To assume from the start that only certain ethnicities will contribute, and that others aspire only to grab, is not only ugly prejudice; it is also self-destructive delusion.

    "People of all backgrounds want to create, save and contribute to society. A party of the center-right should make them all feel at home, regardless of how they pronounce their last name, the complexion of their skin or the way in which they express love and build family.

    "The Roman Catholic Church deems despair a mortal sin. To abandon hope is to reject the reality of goodness and to forswear future action. The United States is a great and good country, and it remains great and good even when we do not get all our own way politically. The United States is a tolerant and free country, which means that there are no "tipping points" beyond which it becomes impossible to correct mistakes.

    "Fifty years ago, Marxism was still a live intellectual force in British universities. Marxists taught that human society must inevitably evolve into a socialist dictatorship of the proletariat. The great British conservative historian Hugh Trevor-Roper scoffed at this arrogance. He said, "When radicals scream that victory is indubitably theirs, sensible conservatives knock them on the nose. It is only very feeble conservatives who take such words as true and run round crying for the last sacraments."

    "We need more sensible conservatives. As for the feeble conservatives, they should take a couple of aspirin and then stay quietly indoors until the temper has subsided and they are ready to say and do something useful again."

  13. This.

    Republicans should simply get out of the way and let the Democrats run the show. Let them tax the rich right out of existence. Let them castigate businesses and entrepreneurs.

    In California the state government has basically pushed Republicans out completely and they can raise taxes without having a vote. Its a super-majority.

    So the City of Los Angeles is raising the sales tax again. The state of California is also adding to the sales tax and increasing income taxes. The federal government is increasing income taxes and will probably institute a VAT. Businesses across the country plan to pass increased healthcare expenses, Obamacare, on to the consumer. Its a tax bomb and it is going to result in an unsustainable household budget situation for many people.

    In California Democrats are salivating over the dismantling of Prop-13 so they can raise residential property taxes perhaps even doubling them abruptly.

    New student loan rules put in place by Barrack Obama allow loan recipients to default and dismiss student debt in bankruptcy. There is plenty of evidence that many people are financing their lives with student loans and will likely have no means of repayment upon graduation.

    Sounds like the end of the world to me. No reason the Republicans should be involved at any level.

  14. We need more sensible(and sane) conservatives. good article by the way. obama is so far from a socalist to thinking people that the idea is laughable.
    so far obama has governed as a moderate republican of just a few years ago.
  15. I wonder what this country is going to look like 10 years from now?
    Since 911, it has gone to pot and this is just one more nail in the coffin.
  16. You're talking about longer term, broader issues, of which I agree with much of your assessment. However, I'm talking right now. What is the move right now on this whole issue of debt, the eonomy and how to manage it? Both sides have their true believers, and I'm saying since the Obama won, it's his game to play, so let him play it.
    You see, it is my opinion that neither one of these cowardly parties really want's the whole deal on their head. Neither party is so sure of their brillant plan that they're willing to risk political oblivion. For all their rhetoric, they both want a bipartisan deal so that when it all comes crashing down they can point the finger at each other.
  17. With respect, the OP is nonsense.

    Obama didn't come close to winning any sort of mandate. The people who matter in this country, the ones who built it and run it, voted overwhelming for the other guy. Obama won by running one of the sleaziest campaigns in history, and the republicans shouldn't reward him for doing so.

    The problem the republicans face is they will be blamed if things go wrong if they oppose him, but he will get all the credit if they go along. It's like the immigration issue. Surrender and see millions more democrat voters or stand firm and continue to have latinos vote agaisnt you. Lose-lose. When those are the alternatives, I happen to think standing on principle is the right course of action.

    The republicans should refuse to budge on taxes. Of course it is popular now to raise some one else's taxes but not your own. Where does it end? We know this small increase in revenues is a drop in the bucket, but the precedent will be established. next time they will come demanding a huge increase in rates on the "rich." Having given away the principle, what leg will republicans have left to stand on? Nothing emboldens a thug like obama like weakness and fear, which seem to be the two things defining the republicans now.

    Did the democrats roll over and play dead whne George Bush was reelected? No, they redoubled their vicious attacks on him and tried their level best to sabotage him and the economy. We owe them no less in return.
  18. I disagree. We need to get off the dime. This whole kick the can down the road is nonsense and shows political cowardice from both parties.
    Both dems and repubs have campaigned heavily on this issue for the past two years. Obama won the election, and mandate or not, his policy should win the day. This is what America wanted, so I say let'em have it.
  19. +1
  20. I agree, and AAA is listening to nonsense, and hoping that all this isn't happening. But it is. The adults in the room have to take over, weigh the options, and make some damn hard decisions. Not get caught up in all this ideological crap. The My way or the Highway is not going to help America. We have to work together.
  21. I respect AAA's political observations and comments as much as anyone else here. He knows a lot more about the topic than I do.

    But I'm thinking I'd like to see the Reps just step aside. Don't assist Obama and his liberal whores. Just don't obstruct them. Let the chips fall where they may.

    Not that it really matters what I think they should do. The RNC certainly hasn't been paying any attention to voters like me recently.
  22. I think the Republican party needs to hire a competent public relations company and defend their positions through trickery just like the democraps do.
  23. Nice to see that the election resolved all the issues among the people.
  24. <big>LOL</big>
  25. The Captain makes an interesting point - neither side wants to take all the blame when things go wrong, but neither side wants to be left out of any credit when things go right. It is the most chicken-shit stance to take, which is why they take it.

    The issue is that you would have to believe that the business cycle and global economic situation is still going to be crap over the next 4 years. Even though it will be nobody in D.C. who is responsible for the eventual global/domestic improvements, like any good group of egomaniacs, they want to be there to take credit for it.

    So it comes down to the 2nd choice - do you want to be left out of any credit for the natural healing cycle of the economy?

    I don't believe the following story about the U.S. actually becoming energy independent (through fracking, nat gas, and conservation), but if even some of it is true, it would add a tailwind to any recovery in the next 4 years.


    If the economy shows improvement, the GOP will risk being the permanent outsiders to "recovery" (because that is the way it will be sold).

  26. just as it should be.

  27. You sure stay drunk a lot.
  28. According to a truck driver, who was raped as an alter boy?
  29. Who said he was raped?