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$20,000 Coaching Session with Jai Ramoutar?

  1. "Onsite Coaching

    Price:

    US $19,995.00 (Continental US Only)

    Hours: For One Week

    Monday - Friday 8:30am - 5:00pm ET

    1. Once registered you will receive a FREE one-hour consultation. During this conversation, you will be speak with Jai Ramoutar, as he assesses your knowledge in many areas, ascertains your goals, and inquires about the weaknesses you would like to tackle, and the strengths you would like to improve upon. From there, Jai Ramoutar will determine your eligibility for the program.

    2. If eligible for the program, shortly thereafter, you will be provided with the TradingScience Profile: a 100 question profile that asks questions which will become vital in assembling your "TradingScience Tactical Success Plan".

    3. Before the coaching session, you will receive via email, a pointed "TradingScience Tactical Report and Plan" This plan will prescribe measures needed to achieve greatness.

    4. During the coaching session, Jai Ramoutar will coach you in a location of your choice. You must provide broadband (cable/ DSL, T-1) access, as Jai Ramoutar will you provide you wth the theory, and then he will show you how it's applied with HIS PERSONAL ACCOUNT, an action that NO ONE HAS DARED TO OFFER OR DELIVER. Mr. Ramoutar will be escorted by his personal assistant, that will provide technical support, and perhaps film the coaching session in part or in whole. The taped coaching session may also be sold for an additional cost of $1,995. Mr. Ramoutar will You will be provided with:


    - The TradingScience Trading Stable of Stocks: a ready-made list of stocks that are compatible with your profile, risk tolerance, capital commitment and style of trading. You will be given the resources and the parameters for regenerating and updating the "stable".

    - The TradingScience Tactical Success Plan: a pointed and no-fluff plan that will prescribe: improvement and or replacement of trading strategies, capital adjustment, trading systems (quote and or trading platforms), system resources, and what education you will need, etc.


    - 12 months of email support, and 5-hours of phone support, directly from Jai Ramoutar, Jr.

    - special priced telephone coaching sessions of $100 per hour on any session thereafter, once the phone support has lapsed."


    I've heard of this guy, but $20,000? Isn't that a bit much? I can go to sit with Oliver at Pristine for 1/2 the price. But it says here, he will trade his own account in front of me. What do you think? I'm considering.
     
  2. I would not even pay $5 to talk to this guy unless.. he showed me his track record.

    I want to see his trading record verified for the past few years...

    If the guy made over triple digits for the past 5 years then I would consider him a pro.... if he made triple digits the past 10 years.. then he is a super trader ... and can charge what ever he wants..

    I would want to see his actual trading account.. not some bullshit model or simulated trades, or even worse backtested models...

    If he wants $20k for his training.. I would demand to see his true performace. If he doesnt have it available or refuses then he is full of shit... and shouldnt be charging people that kind of $.



    --MIKE
     
  3. He will determine the "eligibility for the program" by seeing if your check for 20 grand has cleared first.:D
     
  4. PRISTINE CAPITAL HOLDINGS, INC. WELCOMES JAI RAMOUTAR JR. AS PROVOST OF EDUCATION
    WHITE PLAINS, NY, Dec. 5, 2001- White Plains, NY - Nov. 27, 2001 - Pristine Capital Holdings, Inc. (www.pristine.com), one of the world's largest and most sophisticated online educational services for active self-directed traders, is pleased to welcome Mr. Jai Ramoutar, Jr. as Provost of Education.

    With 13 years of experience in the securities business, Ramoutar is responsible for the management, development and expansion of Pristine's training curriculum. He is also responsible for the delivery mechanisms to meet the growing demand of Pristine's following.

    Ramoutar comes to Pristine with extensive experience in the direct access-trading portion of the market, specifically in the marketing, management, technology and structure of direct access trading education. Since 1995, Ramoutar worked for TrainToTrade.Com, one of the world's largest direct access education firms. While working as Senior Vice President, he was responsible for training operations in the US, Israel and Canada, as well as actively participating in the education of proprietary traders.

    Ramoutar spearheaded the development of TrainToTrade.Com's, online training program (the first of its kind) that delivered both live and archived streaming media-based trading education, which was unveiled at the Day Trading Expo in Oakland, CA during the fall of 1999. In January of 2000, TrainToTrade.Com was voted Forbes Magazine "The Best of the Web." Ramoutar has been subject to conventional and investigative reporting and interviews by many national and international financial newspapers, magazines, television programs and web sites. While at TrainToTrade.Com, Ramoutar enhanced and pioneered many moral and integrity-based practices that helped shape the foundation of education for self-directed traders, and has served as an expert witness in several industry arbitrations. Ramoutar is a self-taught trader, and has extensive and active trading experience as a retail customer and proprietary trader in the direct access-trading arena since 1994, and has personally taught thousands of individuals the art and sciences of direct access electronic trading.

    Prior to this, Ramoutar worked in the securities business as a retail stockbroker from 1989 through 1995. Ramoutar attended the City University of New York, where he majored in Business and Finance.
     
  5. Absolutely mentions nothing about his personal trading ability.... just a bunch of bullshit.

    I have the feeling he is another prick.. that makes the trading business look bad. I really despise snake oil salesmen like him.

    --MIKE
     
  6. TrendFader is right. Insist on viewing past statements and nothing less. Whether he's the real deal or a sham, you'll soon know. And if the performance isn't in the statements, accept no "explanations".
     
  7. Thanks, Mike. But he says here that he will trade his account, I've been looking for a coach for quite a while, and everyone that I've spoken to or checked out doesn't say squat about trading their own account (let me know if someone else does it, I'd like to check them out, URLs please). The guys at Pristine told me that Oliver won't even trade his account, and I would have to go out there to see him. This guy Ramoutar, said he would come to see me. My buddy went to Pristine for a Private Mentorship with a guy who's no longer there, and he paid $3,500 + airfare from Sao Paolo + hotel, etc, etc. He's gotta be trading pretty well to trade his account in front of me, it'd be pretty embarassing if he F'd up in front of me. I'll call him and see what he's going to do. Hell, free hour before I pay, I'll try it. Comments?
     
  8. If I could afford to toss a spare 20 grand his way for a coaching session, what the hell would I need a coaching session for. :D
     
  9. Isn't this the same guy who was shilling for this "father of soes" operation?
     
  10. What a joke!!

    So he will trade his account for a day in front of you... Big deal!

    He could take 5 trades and have them all winners... WOW!!

    C'mon.. I want to see his verified personal trading records.. otherwise they are all full of crap.. Velez and the rest of his crew..

    David Floyd is legit.. he has his trades and records verified.

    --MIKE
     
  11. Here's an old guy's experience....
    1. "Willing to trade his own account" means nothing unless he's making size trades... one-sies mean nothing.
    2. He's more likely to show some success in a short period of time (1 week, did you say?) than over a longer period.
    a. If he does well trading small over a short period, maybe you're hooked?
    b. If he does poorly, he loses little for trading small and you don't get hooked for $20K.

    If he's trading his own account and putting several $Million at risk, that could be substantial. Otherwise, short term performance means nothing, no matter how flashy.
     
  12. I just called the office, and his answering service picked up. When I get a call back, I'll ask him for the records, I'm sure he's expecting that. I could afford to invest $20,000 to learn from someone who is making money trading. I have lost a hell of alot more than that trading in the last few months. I can't get my ass back in action, after watching the market get ripped for 3 years, I forgot how to make money now that it's coming back. :) The research I did on this guys seems to be on the ball so far. Where can I get more info on David Floyd?
     
  13. tradingmarkets.com for David Floyd. His methods are solid and you can buy his book for $50 to get an idea if his trading style is in tune with your personality and what you want to do. The thing is he is not a system or mechanical trader so a lot of his trading is based on discretion and experience.. so I think its more of making sure you are in synch with his trading style to begin with.

    What research have you done about Jai. Tell me one thing that makes you willing to pay $20k?

    --MIKE
     

  14. This is so ridiculous I can't even begin to say it. Maybe he's good. Maybe he's not. But it's just PLAIN ridiculous that for $20K and 1wk, he will somehow IMPART to you all the "SECRETS" of trading and make you a pro.

    And the thing is EVEN IF he is a pro and has an audited track record I HIGHLY DOUBT that you'll be enable to absorb and ACT on those strategies, rules, risk mgmt, money mgmt, position sizing, psychology, cutting losses, handling drawdown, riding winners, etc etc. all in 1wk. I think learning to trade is a slow gradual process. It's kinda like learning anything. Then one day you wake up and it all clicks. Or most of it clicks. Then you start to pound out steady profit.

    There's NO such thing as a crash course in trading. I think reading and studying market before you put on trade can help a lot too. That will probably push you further. You have to REFLECT, THINK, REFLECT on trades and its cause and effects,etc.

    I don't know. I you have $20K to blow away maybe I can be your mentor for $15K. I'll save you $5K. haha. I'll tell you how to daytrade and do swing trades too both stocks, bonds, options, and futures. LOL!

    But I rather not since I'm a real trader. I don't have time, the inclination, nor the willingness to give my "edge" out. And even if I told you my edge you probably MOST LIKELY will NOT be able to duplicate the results because you are not me. You don't see the same things I've seen. Or you haven't suffered and understand the same risk or when to bet big , when to bet small, when not to bet,etc. A myriads of little things that you learn OVER TIME through personal experience.

    but good luck to all who wants to throw away $20K.

    -99
     
  15. imho, you can probably learn everything he has to teach you for free by fishing out the rare but outstanding professionals on this board. they are here.

    i think 20k is a better investment in your own nose-to-the-grindstone tuition than a week of watching someone else's style, no matter how good he is or isn't. (unless you're aboslutely rolling in it)
     
  16. This guy is bagged and tagged. How desperate do you have to be to shell out 20k to some charlatan jerk your chain for a week?
     
  17. I have a wierd feeling that slickrick is bogus.


    --MIKE
     
  18. This is what is aweful about this board. We get this charlatan crap. $20,000 yeah right, nobody is that dumb. There is another thread earlier where somebody got taken for 5 grand, I gave him the benefit of the doubt in a post, but this is all crap. We need better moderators.
     
  19. You could buy 5 of every trading book on earth for $20k and likely learn more.
     
  20. Alas, there is not a moderator for this forum right now. But as you pointed out, it sorely needs one. Why don't you PM Baron and volunteer Trajan?
     
  21. I very much doubt his ability to make 20,000 PER WEEK TRADING..

    let do the math, 52*20,000=1,040,000..

    take 2 weeks off for vacation and you still make a million dollar a

    year..

    If he can make a million bucks per year trading his own account,

    then yeah...may be he should charge 20,000 per week..

    I know a former turtle( of the Richard dennis

    fame) who made millions of dollar charge 25,000 for a seminar..

    I guess this guy is really special..







    :D :D :D
     
  22. Well the coaching session is what it is. I will provide "real statements", either hard copy or on the Internet only after someone has expressed true interest in the program, and well before they commit any investment to their education. I am a real and successful trader, and have been so now since 1995. That mentorship is not meant for every trader, it is only meant for traders of a high net worth in education and capital, with specific needs and goals, people who have been trading for at least 3 years. Not a one-week crash course on how to trade, if you want that I'll give you a list of "snake oil" salesmen who don't know how to trade, and wouldn't have the guts to do it. I'll need to be much more specific in the description, since the program is not for everyone. I found that there are no other mentorship programs out there, where someone will come to YOU and trade THEIR ACCOUNT the whole week. After speaking with a gentleman earlier today about the program, (I suspect he is the one who started this thread) he is not eligible for the program. He simply does not have a grasp of some basic principles, so instead I gave him a reading list and a list of educators to check out. I didn't charge him for that. As I have said before, if you have any specific questions just send me an email directly, I'm one of a few traders and educators in here that will answer or entertain any questions or comments you may have.


    Trendfader - thanks for all of the great comments. You're a real classy person. Feel free to give me a call or shoot me an email and speak to me directly. I'd really to speak with you.

    Be well, all!
     
  23. Yeah!

    What he said!

    nitro :cool:
     
  24. Or he could make 5 trades and have all be losers ... or 2 winners and 3 losers ... for $20K I'd want more "guarantees" than some guy who would trade his account ... actually I'd never pay $20K for coaching/mentoring ... I would bet there are better "values" out there if one wants to find them
     
  25. I invite you into the ET Chatroom for ONE week to post your trades in realtime. The logs are saved on a daily basis and you can save them to you computer to show as a record to others. You do not have to explain your trades or answer any questions if you do not want to, just post the trades in realtime. This will be the best advertising in your life if what you say is true.

    nitro
     
  26. Hmmmmm, if he could find 1 client per week that would be over $1 MILLION per year in coaching. Who would need to trade with that kind of "supplemental" income?
     
  27. You guys accuse too much. LET THE GUY COME INTO THE CHATROOM AND POST HIS TRADES IN REALTIME!

    nitro
     
  28. i also challenge you to visit the ET chat room and post your trades for one week.

    in addition, if you wish to silence the naysayers, why not choose one or two elite members and provide your one week of coaching for free ?? first this will give you legitimacy, plus it will be awesome marketing. are you up for it ??

    best,

    surfer:)
     
  29. I wasn't "accusing" anyone of anything ... merely thinking out loud. The numbers (potential) speak for themself. I'd love to see his trades in real time. And earlier I posted that I would not pay $20K for such coaching ... just my opinion.
     
  30. Ramatour, thanks for coming onto the board. I think people would be most impressed by speaking with former pupils of yours, specifically those who underwent the the one week mentoring program. Then they can speak for themselves about the results.

    You agree that such a high cost product should have an equally high degree of reliability and substance, don't you?
     
  31. This idiot probably can't even trade a pound of gold for a bag of shit:p
     
  32.  
  33. Break down the semantics of this sentence and then tell me again you are not "accusing anybody of anything."

    nitro
     
  34. < Hmmmmm, if he could find 1 client per week that would be over $1 MILLION per year in coaching. Who would need to trade with that kind of "supplemental" income? >

    (1) "Hmmmmm" ... as in someone wondering out loud.
    (2) next, 1 client per week x $20K per week = $1+ million
    (3) With that kind of potential income who WOULD need to trade

    How on earth is the above accusing? It's not .... end of story. Better yet, tell me what the accusation is! I'll be waiting ....
     
  35. I was told by a few friends to check this site out. I'm glad that they were right, "you'll get help" if you have any questions. I checked out a few other coaches, and for the same price I can sit with both owners of Pristine. There are some other coaches / mentors at a lower price. I'll probably take that route with Pristine. If anyone else has any ideas let me know. This guy says I dont qualify for the program, but he'll give me guidance. I guess he could have taken my money if he wanted. I 've spent money on driving, golf , and trading lessons. The only place where I haven't seen improvement is my golf game.
     
  36. pffffft,

    OK.

    nitro
     
  37. Fair enough!

    nitro
     
  38. Dude - here is the deal. I will mentor you for $9,995. I will trade my own account, and you can watch. If you sign up by 5:00PM EST today, I will give you a 10% discount. And, I will throw in a free meal for two at Red Lobster.

    Let me know. Spots fill up fast.
     
  39. http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/stocks/education/traders/?trader=Floyd

    I'm checking out Floyd too but no matter what happens, whichever coach I get, they're coming to my office. I'm not traveling anywhere, and I want who ever it is to show me what their teaching WORKS with their freakin account, that's the only reason why I checked it out. Im not going to give it a try after with my account for the 1st time. The CNN report said this guy Jia traded his account in a classroom with traders.

    My friend is a risk position trader with MLCO, he would sit with me. Well, who the hell cares. This market is running I need to make money. Thanks but no thanks KGHARRIS, Red Lobster gives me the squirts :) . Thanks guys!
     
  40. I can set you guys up a real time Audio room so you dont have to worry about typing and you can do that from anywhere?

    not a big deal you can do it for a solid week on me i will eat the hosting bill fot it and all of elite is invited
     
  41. but the question still remains...

    WHY IS IT WORTH $20,000???

    why not $1000 or $2000???
    I think you will have much better reception if you could show
    us where the VALUE is..

    I wouldn't mind blowing 20k on a penthhouse centerfold because I know she can do some pretty amazing things for me...:D

    or if you are one of the Market Wizard , I certainly wouldn't mind spending 20k for a week of learning. (but I really DOUBT any of the market wizard will bother to do it)

    from a math perspective..if you can PROVE that you make more than 1 million per annum, then 20k is not too expensive at all.. it's the oppuntunity cost for your time because that you can make 20,000 per week trading too..

    now..you only have to PROVE you can make A MILLION PER YEAR and I am sure everyone will just shut up immediately...
     
  42. your are not allowed to have you site in you signature
    in less you pay for ads on this site .

    how is this guy getiing away with this?


    Mods getting soft?
     
  43. MODS and ET:

    I didn't know that, there was no such indication in the documentation (maybe I missed it) I'll read again,if it's there I'll pull it, if not you make the call and let me know. My focus here is to help for FREE, not promote my company. Let me know.
     
  44. Actually, I've had sex with a penthouse girl..and it was a big disappointment...things are not always what they seem.

    As for Jai...his mentoring is only worth what people are willing to pay for it. I've met him before when he was recruiting for Domestic..but honestly I have no knowledge of his trading performance. But I have to ask myself, if he was that good why wouldn't Harvey have had him trading instead of hiring?
    Anyway..happy trading to all.

    Uptik2000
     
  45. You're absolutely right. I have met many traders, and the one thing everyone needs to know is entry? stop? target? risk /reward? The same applies here: What is the risk of a $20,000 investment, what is the reward of the same investment. I will make the description alot more specific and informative. If someone has a $20,000 account, $20,000 on a mentorship is ridiculous, regardless of what the proof is. Someone with $5MM account that swings 20-50K QQQ's at a time is another story. I didnt promote this, someone started a thread and asked about the coaching, I didnt tell people who I was until, someone asked "Who is Jai Ramoutar?" There are many people who I have personally coached for free over the years, and have watched me trade my account. They are putting together testimonials, that include their names and email addresses, and will give their tel # to someone who asks. They offered to do that much for me. That information will not be posted here. I do very well trading for a living, many people know it, and that's why they have asked me to coach them, or run their companies for them. Vegasoul, this is not the first time you've taken a poke at me, and it's ok if it's not the last. Remember one thing, I'm not here to market I'm here to help.
    Be well!

     
  46. I did trade All Tech's money, before during and after recruiting for DOMS. It worked well as a "quickershutterupper" when traders would ask me, "Can you make money do this?". I'm sure if you P/M'd or emailed me I can get those names for you, and you can call and verify. Or call Harvey directly, 201-782-0200, or email him at harvey@attain.com .

    Why didn't you follow up with prop? Send answer P/M.

     
  47. Jai:

    Just a curiosity question ... from your web site I see you trained 12,000 since 1995. I'm assuming a lot were while at All Tech. Having traded with them for about 3 years (1997-2000) I'm somewhat familiar with their boot camps, held both at branch offices as well as in Montvale. By the way, I never took the training which the branch managers supported as I'd been trading for a while. Seemed like a lot was focused on trading for "teenies" back then. Two questions (1) how many traders have you trained with your current philosophy? (2) Is your current approach totally different than what was taught at All Tech and focused on individual traders methods?

    Can't recall what it cost to go to Montvale back then ... maybe $5000 and if not mistaken similar training at branch offices was around $3000.
     
  48. Did she charge you 20k?
     
  49. No...$150 Canadian.:D
     
  50. But, it wasn't until it was too late, that he found out SHE WAS A MAN, BABY!
     
  51. LMAO

    nitro :D :eek:
     
  52. LOL...no.

    You guys are wacked!:D
     
  53. Uptik is that what she/he said, that it was a big disappointment?

    I don't know if you know, but the Pfizer riser Viagra may have helped. Good luck on your next attempt.
     
  54. Jai called me within 15 minutes of getting my PM, he took his web site url off his sig without being asked, and apologized if he crossed the line. He said he had no intention to openly promote here on ET, and run afoul of our standards. Frankly, I believe him thus far... because it is hard to defend yourself in this medium and industry without sounding like you're promoting yourself.

    So now he knows. I have no doubt that we will hear from our members if they feel more posts cross the line. In the meantime, he has our rate card. ::grins::

    André
     
  55. Andre,

    Fair enough. Thank you for the update. Welcome to the ET community, Jai.
     
  56. OK, Ramatour has to prove himself, so do you Uptik!

    Post month and year, or better, post a jpg (of the playmate not you)
     
  57. harvey from alltech ??> !!!!! is not he in prison ?????


    LMAO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



    what a crock


    jAck:eek:
     
  58. Dhohhi, you raise some excellent and very intelligent questions. Let me answer all of your questions:

    1) Montvale had 4 week classes for $5K (Four Phase) and the money was rebated back on trades, and 1 week classes for $3.5K (bootcamps). I taught in Montvale and all over the world. I'm glad to hear that you weren't pushed into training by branch managers (please P/M me the locale of the branch where you traded), I would crush the grapes of any B/M that did that.

    2) The primary strategies were momentum, (LevelII, SNET and INCA fishing and fill analysis, etc) as Harvey abhorred TA, and it wasn't until I fought him and won, that it became part of the curriculum. Harvey wasn't a believer in TA. However, he couldn't argue the performance in the accounts I traded. Before the SEC Order Handling Rule of '97 was passed, 1/4's and 1/8ths were still rampant, then "teenies" and then the devastating blow to momentum....the decimals. My momentum analysis was dramatically revised, I tested the strategies with my OWN money, and then wrote the curriculum and taught it when the market was closed.

    3) The philosophies I used have evolved MANY times since 1995. Momentum primarily until '97, then a strong push on TA breakouts and breakdowns. '97 I taught and practiced ECN arb and fading (many strategies that still work today). '98 til '01 mostly TA (90%) with strong focus on failed B/Os and B/Ds and with momentum focus on buy and sell side axe behaviors with intraday candle OBV and VWAP. From '00 to '01 I developed the prop training program, and taught mostly prop traders (approx 300 traders) and select retail customers, with mostly momentum and fill analysis. DOMS and ATTN prop model was LTHV (low tolerance high velocity) prop trading guys were trading 10-100K shares of Nasdaq stocks priced anywhere from $0.75 to $2.00. TA was used for buy and sell progs only, with major focus on fill analysis. This is where my market maker experience came in. I also use as I have had since then, DJI and TYX relationships, this analysis shows high accuracy for anticipating post 3PM ET mkt reversals. By the way, I was in the PIT with them trading my MONEY, showing them that it did work.

    4) My philosophies have changed dramatically since '95, and I have personally mentored traders individually since '01. When I arrived at Pristine, while understanding the "Pristine Method", which I found out is the same as Steve Nison's "Three Black Crow" strategy, I introduced VWAP and OBV analysis on the Intraday 1 & 5 min. I taugh this analysis not only during Pristine bootcamps and Real Time Room lectures (350 users logged in everyday), but also in online seminars and CD's which they are still selling today, after I have left.

    The bottom line is: 1) My approaches are TOTALLY different from the ones I have taught 8 years ago. To survive and succeed, you must adapt, or be killed. It's always great for me to hear from traders who are STILL trading since '95. 2) I have survived and succeeded because I have adapted to the changing market, and have helped many traders do the same. I'd say 10K people from '95 to '00 and then 2k people from '00 till now. The numbers dropped because my primary focus from '01 on was trading my account and running Pristine's business.

    Hope that answered your questions, feel free to send me a P/M or an email. Always nice to here from pre 3/31/00 traders (survivors). I'm not there, so pat yourself on the back for me, I'm proud of you!!! :) You should be too!! Be well!!
     
  59. He bought himself a 150' yacht and trades from South Beach Miami, the back of is boat says "THE SEC WON'T LET ME BE" All-Tech name is gone, but DOMS and HMSS is still running strong. When he makes it up north, we still talk and go to yard sales together. He's still trading ACTIVELY and having fun, even though he can't dress. We gotta love the guy, it was him who direct access, ECNs, and decimalization possible. LOL!! Don't bite Jack, I didn't get the shot, and I heard it's PAINFUL :(


     
  60. Houtkin capitalized on an arbitrage opportunity after the advent of SOES, an opportunity which was soon closed.

    AllTech's in house trading account lost 300k or so in its last year.
     
  61. This will be my last reply on Harvey. I reply again, because he's a friend, I won't reply again because he's doing fine all by himself.

    Yes, SOES got whacked so he reinvented himself with prop, and took the ATTN ecn went to the moon, when that got tough he invented NOCI.

    http://www.nasdaqtrader.com/asp/mma...epType=2&cboMARDate=05-01-2003&MARSearchDate=

    That link will show you what he did, ATTN fee was $15.00 per 1K, and then to $9.00 per 1k, not a bad living. They're on to something big I'm told, we'll see in next few weeks.

    God bless him. I thank him for SOES, ECNs, Super SOES, Super Montage and decimals, and how to shop at yard sales.

    Be well!
     
  62. I testified at US Senate. The $300K loss was in hedge account, there was $300K gain on other side. If you remember, hedge accounts allowed you to hit downtick bids to get short, because hedge account was long. The US Senate PSI investigation led by REP. Collins revealed adn corrected in testimony by Senator Phil Gramm. If you need links, P/M me.

    Bottom line is, this guy made a ton of money. So while I'm friends with him, I don't feel sorry for him.
     
  63. I never even see ATTN in the montage anymore? And I was told that no was paying those outrages rates for hitting their ecn. Just like Mkxt. I'm surprised their still around.
     
  64. Jai,

    Thanks for the lengthy reply. At the time I lived in the midwest and recall a guy named Don came to the office and did the "boot camps" ... his last name eludes me.

    I agree 100% you have to change with the markets or you'll struggle.

    Good luck ... I'm sure your posts are appreciated by a number of people here on ET.
     
  65. They're barely in the montage, but still around. They put out another SOESable ECN, "NOCI" has much lower prices and made up for thye MM's not paying ATTN. NOCI picked up where ATTN left off.


     
  66. Ramouter.. I'll tell you what. Why don't you SIMPLY take the first 20 thousand dollars that a student nets.. Hell take 25k!! Since you are overqualfied (ie testifying in senate, working with harvey, teaching around the world, etc.), this should be no problem for you.

    In fact, since you have to evaluate someone before they are "allowed" to send you a check for 20 thousand dollars for your time, you should have a good idea if they will succeed in paying you if they follow your strategies.

    lol, the best gimmick i have heard is that you will trade your OWN money. Well, actually its not yours considering you have a 20k cushion from your victim.. oops i mean student. Nice try SlickRick.
     
  67. if jai offers a legitimate money back guarantee then there is nothing wrong with him charging whatever the market will accept for his training.

    his marketing reminds me of tony robbin's pitch--- i'll help you change your life, but before i accept your money, i need to be certain that you want to change.


    i wish you well in your endeavor, jai.


    best,

    surfer:)
     
  68. But I only paid $149 for Tony Robbins' Personal Power course.
     
  69. This reminds me walking by a hardware store in East Hampton the summer that "Jaws" was released. The store owner was offering shark repellent for sale with a money back gaurantee.:D
     

  70. LOL, magandre. i was refering to robbin's big buck counseling sessions. by the way, personal power is a great program !

    best,

    surfer:)
     


  71. LOL, dg !! funny story. i think your "improvement" or lack there of after taking jai's course would be totally objective and verifiable--- unlike "shark repellent" LOL!

    surfer:cool:
     
  72. I also teach from time to time and I

    ask NOTHING ....


    When a losing trader turns into

    a winning trader a few weeks after

    my teaching and calls me up telling

    me that, then I get something

    in return that even 200 billion dollars

    can't pay....

    my fee for Americans; a 20000,-$

    cheque for UNICEF

    free for Europeans.....

    Every stock trader that turns into

    a futures trader gets a 10000,-$

    cheque from me....
    I
     
  73. Nothing for nothing but hedge accts wherein you have 1000 shares of ABC long in one acct and an equal # of shares in another "related" account which has the same economic interest is illegal. Was outlawed by the SRO's years ago.

    2nd-Part of your due diligence in investigating whether to drop any $ on tutors is to not only look into their trading account that they present but find a way to peruse ALL their trading accounts. It is not hard to open multiple accounts and "park" the winning trades in one account which is then shown to the propective students.

    My take-the $ to be made on a winning methodology or system offered by the markets dwarf whatever $ anyone can make by tutoring. so buyer beware


    There are some great traders I know that share their secrets but only if they take a split off of the traders they teach. That is when the trader puts their money where there mouth is.. Like Mark Fisher who teaches a system but employs the traders and splits pnl with them. That is what new guys wishing to learn should try to get into instead of giving a wad of cash hoping to be taught by anyone whose economic interests are divergent not congruent with theirs.
     
  74. Well then just do your due diligence, ask some former pupils what they thought and try it. Put the 20K in perspective. Site work, jury trials and many surgeries cost that anyway. It's your career. If the program is solid and that's where you need the help, the jump start will probably be worth it.

    Let us know how you like the program.


    Geo.:)
     
  75. Yes those accounts were discontinued years ago. Nothing was ever illegal abou them. There is nothing illegal abouit me being long 1000 ABCD in my account and my wife being short the same in her account. The accounts at ALST were cross collateralized market neutral positions, and if you looked back in the previous post of this thread, you will see this was not an individual. A) The question was why a $300K loss in ALST's acct, the other account that had a $300K profit was never shown. No different then getting a 1099 from your clearing firm showing sales proceeds, without the buy side. This wasn't outlawed by and SRO, it was a decision made by the FRB, and then carried out by the SEC under federal mandate.

    The account I refer to is my trading accountS. My other related accounts (UGMA, Trusts, etc) are irrelevant.

    Your take is your take, trading and making money is financially and mentally rewarding, helping others do the same is all of the above an eternal joy, which is priceless.

    Your last point while possibly true, is illegal they are JTWROS or JTIC. No such contract would be legal, unless it fell under the Trust Indenture Act. Again read back on the posts, the onsite coaching is NOT FOR NEW TRADERS, and is not promoted by me on ET. It's there, and the individual must meet specific criteria before I coach them onsite. Be well GATrader!

     
  76. Trust Company Act
     
  77. If they were not illegal why were they discontinued? Because they were designed to avoid.get around the shorting rules.

    Those agreements are not illegal, if they were a majority of all the locals in the US pits would be violating the law. A good number of locals got their start this way. Worked on the floor as clerks, then leased a seat with capital being provided by a more established trader in return for a split. At its simplest form, I could open an account under my name, grant someone trading authorization on account and pay him/her whatever split we mutually agree upon. Why would that be illegal?
     
  78. I was one of Jai's trainees at all-tech boot camp back in '97 (lasted nearly a year there before blowing out heh). Felt like ages ago, but I remember Jai as being one of the few people there that actually gave decent advice.

    Good to hear you're still in the biz and prospering. :)
     
  79. It is kind of like how Hillary Clinton made a $100,000 trading cattle futures.

    Taking a percentage is the most intellectually honest way of getting paid in this business. I learned the way GAtrader described plus a hell of a lot of my study. There was a recent thread where we discussed the Optionetics course costing $3,000, you would have to be incredibly gullible to pay that for a two or three day course, which didn't seem to offer beyond the basics. After all, what does Don charge to take one of his classes, $1,000 and it's five days. Maybe Jai is really worth the $20,000, but doesn't doesn't that high price undercut his statment to want to help people. Isn't he trying to recruit people who are already rich? Jai, does somebody come to you with X amount of capital and ask for your service, but then you come back and cut the fee because it is too much in relation to capital at hand? Is that what happens when you tutor people for free?
     
  80. I do not know about the 300,000 in a hedged situation but I can state that in 1996, all tech did allow their traders to have a long account and set up a short account to get around the "uptick" rule. Then congress or the sec came out with a ruling or law and it was no longer allowed. Now, I would be a little surprised if this was still going on years later but who knows. By the way I started with all-tech in the San Diego office. One of those two managers/owners became the poster boy for the congressional investigation. I laughed my ass off when I saw Barry testifying in front of Congress. Because I remember him wanting me to allow someone else to have my money transferred over to someone else to avoid overnight margin calls. Barry was out for himself but if you asked him he did give you straight answers. I thought it was ridiculous that they advertised that it was easy but at the same time I thought it was a joke when many of his former customers sued him because they lost hundreds of thousands of dollars trading. At some point you can no longer blame the pusher.

    The all-tech training in San Diego (which I got see for free because I was already trading in the office when the trainer came out), was the biggest scam and crock of shit ever and I mean ever. They were teaching strategies that were worse than ineffective they were designed to lose. In fact when I learned more they were almost criminally stupid. Harvey should have been ashamed of himself. They taught people to wait for the market odometer to speed up, see green and press soes buy. This left you in the soes line for the market makers who waited for the spoos to reverse and they would then take every soes idiot they could and you were instantly down 3/8 on a thousand to start the trade. That is not to say you could not make money if you figured it out, but I had to go to a different firm to get trained and figure it out.

    That Harvey guy, I never trusted him after I saw his $3,000 training course.

    I have nothing against paying for training, because I did not start to make good money(during the momentum days) until I paid the guys who trained me an 1/8 a cent share for a year. Which turned out to be a good sum. (By the way that method taught to me in 1997, grafted on to a 20 period moving average (I was an LBR fan at the time), and then later filtered with a Stochastic {Dave like the stochs after he was shown one}, is the method Dave Floyd, mentioned earlier in this thread was/is now hawking on tradingmarkets.) I had no complaints about paying for it because for a while it enabled me and others in our office to make some good money for a few years.


    Consequently I agree the earlier posters, most good teachers would make more off splitting profits than training fees. And you save a ton of marketing time. But if a teacher can prove he is good at what he does (making profitable traders) even a somewhat jaded trader like myself would be happy to pay him or her.
     
  81. Hehe, very true...
     
  82. It was true back then as it is now, the biggest problem with most of these public "training" courses is that they are simply inherently outdated. Go back a couple years before the daytrading craze started, and you'd find many cases of SOES traders taking money out of the market on a weekly if not daily basis. And how did they make that money? By buying when they saw green and selling when they saw red. All-tech wasn't a scam, they were just teaching worn-out strategies. If you want another example, Dennis & co's Turtle trading strategy is free for anyone to download, and I'm sure you can find any number of people to train you in the details of that system that took millions out of the market -- yet you'll most likely find that system won't be anywhere near as successful as it once was. Does that make the turtle system a scam? Is someone who is selling that system for 3k a charlatan? Or are their customers just getting sold on whatever sounds like fast and easy money?

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not here to defend all-tech or any kind of "teaching-you-how-to-trade" program, just saying that's about all you can expect with practically any training course open to the public.
     
  83. what most people KNOW on this board is that there are NO secrets to trading--- NONE. this info about getting a list of stocks, et al ( secrets) sounds very very outdated to me.

    best,

    surfer
    :)
     
  84. It's truly a shame the way the San Diego office was run. Barry did not do a great job running that office, and it got worst when he and Rob split up. Barry was caught bringing in instructors other than the one's from All-Tech. While it is true that that some of the methodologies taught back then do not work today. Harvey was a HUGE opponent of TA back then, and still is today. The training material changed dramatically when I took over the training arm. I got into a lot of heated arguments with Harvey, but ultimately won by teaching TA and making it 90% of the training.

    As far as splitting costs, it's very difficult to do (especially here in NY), as you must be a RIA. Splitting profits was generally accepted, and then came under very tough scrutiny when firms were caught lending money to daytraders to help them meet margin calls. Since I have securities licenses, I have limited choices on how to split profits, if at all.

    I have given my webmaster a list of details to add in for the coaching program, with very explicit details, which will also include a "money back guarantee". Again, each coaching student must be meet specific criteria, and be very clear about what they're looking for. It is also not the only training I provide. As I've said before, my name has become what it is, because I do things the right way and help people. It's a shame that so many "CHARLATANS" and "SNAKE OIL" salesman have taken advantage.

    I have chosen to continue my activity on ET to help. You will see as you have already that those who know me on here, have had good experiences with me. If you ever need a hand, an answer just drop me a line.

    Be well
     
  85. Past results are irrelevant, if Jesse Livermore was alive today and offered a course, he'd get takers at $20k a pop, and his acct ended with a negative balance.
     

  86. past results are totally relevant. all results are past by definition. there is nothing else to judge by in this game.

    best,

    surfer:)
     
  87. Yes there is.. AGE. The best trader is NOT the one with the most money, he/she is the one with the most money and has kept it the longest.

    Alot of these "young millionaires" made it on high risk gambles that paid off, it doesn't make them the best traders, since it's a matter of time until they lose it all.
     
  88. Let's not forget that one of the other All-Tech trainers in 1995 had a minor role in the soap opera Ryan's Hope. What a joke.
     
  89. I was at an All-Tech class in December '95. Harvey gave all of us Christmas presents at the end of our training. The present? A framed picture of Harvey himself!

    The best thing about the seminar? Some French guy from LA turned me on to Iomega. Still, direct access was a whole new world back then, and Harvey certainly deserves the credit. He was pretty cool.