I have started a thread so anyone who has questions about TopstepTrader or Patak Trading Partners can get these questions answered here. Members of the TopstepTrader team answering questions will be TST_Hoag, TST_Eddie and myself.
Why do you charge $350+ for one combine that gives you the equalivant of a few thousand in perchasing power? (You will unplug people who do poorly, and you do not take positions past the close, so there really is no $150 k account -unless I'm wrong with all this) Granted your lowest combine is $100-$200, but this is for a very small account. One thing is for certain, it does NOT cost you $350 per 'combine' to run a sim account and evaluate. Brokers offer free demo accounts all year long with realtime data and broker-server order exchange. Where is the $350 going? I wonder how many get a refund...
Also, why is there no information on employment on your website? When I checked it out, it was implied that a check would be mailed to the trader, even if they were young or in a foreign country. I doubt this is the case -if it's not, why not publish some more info?
Many, such as gmst, HurricaneUS and myself (I view gmst and HUS as rich guys with excellent trading skills, like myself ;)) have at least some doubt about your operation. Given the vast number of "recruits" versus live traders, and given you ran an online gaming/gambling website very similar to topsteptrader in the past, it's logical to view TST as simply a clever revenue operation first, and a recruiting zone second.
None of this is intended to be a provokation, just honest questions that myself and others have. Great looking website, and overall a cool idea...thanks for starting the thread -mike
Thank you for taking the time to answer questions. I think the most important question is whether or not you really fund traders. I know that you do provide some funding but if your program and rules are realistic then you should have several traders who've achieved more significant success.
So my questions are simple:
1. Do you have more then 12 traders who have net (before splits) at least 30+k? Do you have more then 4 traders who have cleared 100k (before splits)?
2. Do you make more from the combine fees or from trader's trading profits?
3. If a trader hits their daily loss limit after going live over 1 session or multiple sessions, what happens? And how do they get back to live trading? Say my loss limit is $500.. I'm cleared for live. I'm down $250 first day then $250 next day, would I be sent back to sim? If yes, how do I get back to live? How many days am I down? Let's say it happens again, do you have a dollar cut off for traders and if so what is it for each funding tier?
4. Are you a CME exchange member and if yes then why don't you pass on those savings to your traders?
Since going live trading the ES about 6 months ago, I've did extremly well, imo. I don't want to be down from trading to trade in sim. I know you have a custom combine for successful traders. What types of things do you make adjustments for in the custom combine?
Also, I look forward to when you add Ninjatrader. I use OEC and their DOM is rock solid. I tried the T4 DOM and had many problems.
Why do you charge $350+ for one combine that gives you the equalivant of a few thousand in perchasing power? (You will unplug people who do poorly, and you do not take positions past the close, so there really is no $150 k account -unless I'm wrong with all this) Granted your lowest combine is $100-$200, but this is for a very small account. One thing is for certain, it does NOT cost you $350 per 'combine' to run a sim account and evaluate. Brokers offer free demo accounts all year long with realtime data and broker-server order exchange. Where is the $350 going? I wonder how many get a refund...
Also, why is there no information on employment on your website? When I checked it out, it was implied that a check would be mailed to the trader, even if they were young or in a foreign country. I doubt this is the case -if it's not, why not publish some more info?
Many, such as gmst, HurricaneUS and myself (I view gmst and HUS as rich guys with excellent trading skills, like myself ;)) have at least some doubt about your operation. Given the vast number of "recruits" versus live traders, and given you ran an online gaming/gambling website very similar to topsteptrader in the past, it's logical to view TST as simply a clever revenue operation first, and a recruiting zone second.
None of this is intended to be a provokation, just honest questions that myself and others have. Great looking website, and overall a cool idea...thanks for starting the thread -mike
Colonial dr.. great questions...
The Combine is our way of evaluating traders who can trade todays market. Many traders send their track records into prop firms or say they can trade. We simply ask, dont tell us show us. This was the reason for the Combine. Track records of how great you where a year ago or whatever say nothing about how good you are today. This is also how many of the prop firms evaluate and test their traders before putting any capital behind them.
The Combine has a fully refundable deposit. This holds all recruits accountable for their actions and adds skin in the game for them to gain the closest feel to trading a live market like they would in their personal account. Those in the Combine that complete the requirements found here: http://www.topsteptrader.com/deposit are given the opportunity to receive a full refund (and go their merry way at absouletly no cost to them) or roll their deposit over to a new Combine and use the expereince from the prior Combine to develop and move themselves forward to a profitable trading stategy/methodology.
We have many recruits that receive a rollover as it is not terribly difficult to have a trading average greater than $0 at the end of your Combine and complete 2 of the 3 performance requirements while making sure 50% or more of the days traded are positive (greater than $0 for the day).
To answer your question on the vast amount of recruits verse live traders you will need to look at the success of traders in the industry. The failure rate is so high it makes me sick, BUT it is the truth. Lets not argue it just know that that is what we are up against, much like any professional sport would have.
I about fell into it failing and quitting entirely though I was able to find a prop firm that evaluated traders similar to the TST model when I was completely out of capital and wanted to continue doing something I loved. If forums/website/articles say the failure rate is 90% (which we would and the clearing firms brokerage house behind close doors say is higher) than our goal is to find the 10% of traders that are ready and develop the 90% into the 10% with time and repetition in the markets. Much like anything you need to continually do it over and over to get good and know what to fix.
So to add to this, I had to humble myself and recognize something needed to change as I was not on the path that was putting money in my pocket or even showing any consistent results therefore I curbed my ego and traded with the prop firm on a sim with a $300 daily loss limit. This taught me patience conviction and instilled discipline. This allowed me to build up my trading. Eventually buying myself out of the prop firm and trading on my own.
The road has never been easy but I was doing well which leads me to the gambling site that you mention. I do want to clarify that this was not a gambling site but a skilled based competition site by law (think golf tournaments at a local course where you pay an entry and win a price) that people could challenge each other on FIFA, Tiger woods, etc and win points or prizes. We did this in college, putting a pizza or whatever on the game before we played. It was fun and entertaining.
To make a long story short. I along with a couple of other traders put money together to start this. I was trading at the time but another revenue stream is always nice. This did not pan out so we scrapped it and took a loss. No different than putting on a position. This was my position in another market..
I hope that helps a bit.
mp
__________________
TopstepTrader is structured to educate, develop and fund traders.
Why do you charge $350+ for one combine that gives you the equalivant of a few thousand in perchasing power? (You will unplug people who do poorly, and you do not take positions past the close, so there really is no $150 k account -unless I'm wrong with all this) Granted your lowest combine is $100-$200, but this is for a very small account. One thing is for certain, it does NOT cost you $350 per 'combine' to run a sim account and evaluate. Brokers offer free demo accounts all year long with realtime data and broker-server order exchange. Where is the $350 going? I wonder how many get a refund...
Also, why is there no information on employment on your website? When I checked it out, it was implied that a check would be mailed to the trader, even if they were young or in a foreign country. I doubt this is the case -if it's not, why not publish some more info?
Many, such as gmst, HurricaneUS and myself (I view gmst and HUS as rich guys with excellent trading skills, like myself ;)) have at least some doubt about your operation. Given the vast number of "recruits" versus live traders, and given you ran an online gaming/gambling website very similar to topsteptrader in the past, it's logical to view TST as simply a clever revenue operation first, and a recruiting zone second.
None of this is intended to be a provokation, just honest questions that myself and others have. Great looking website, and overall a cool idea...thanks for starting the thread -mike
Colonial dr- I did forget to answer the first part in better detail... In the Combine you are not just on SIM. You get all the tools that a trader needs to develop.. For simplicity purposes and not being salesy I have a link to all the tools we offer ( its on the left hand side of the page): http://www.topsteptrader.com/membership
Quickly- we have breaking news squawk box (typically ransquawk, trade the news, traders audio charge at least $125 a month just for this), an interactive chat room, an in-house trading psychologist that answer YOUR questions (trading psychologist charge $300 an hour or more, grant this is a group session but the point still holds), Scouts that at the end of your Combine call you and provide feedback, etc etc.. These are extremely costly and we eat this cost when a trader rolls over as a scratch trader (and that is typically the type of trader who is rolling over). A scratch trader is a sound trader that we want to continue to develop with us (again we scout for talent or those that show an increased aptitude for trading)
mp
__________________
TopstepTrader is structured to educate, develop and fund traders.
