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cdcaveman
 

Registered: Aug 2011
Posts: 3513

 

08-06-12 05:35 AM

just because me and Put_master aka Putty man always seem to get into a discussion about his speculation of what the majority of "spread traders" do .. haha just messing with.. no but seriously that has spawned a relatively intellectual conversation about what is best and when.. sooo that being said.. check this.. being as ADHD as i am.. i figure we model the thread such that i can post a hypothetical trade.. discuss all my theory behind it.. and people can deconstruct its risks or just be critical as hell.. give opinions about what strategies they would use.. and then from there.. anyone is ok at any point to give counter point examples with hypothetical trades themselves.. . or for that matter just post their hypothetical trade and present their theory behind it and we will deconstruct it.. And if no one participates i will be talking to myself and thats ok .. i'm funny to myself

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Put_Master
 

Registered: May 2009
Posts: 1029

 

08-06-12 06:10 AM

I post enough real trades under the thread MY OPTION TRADES, that I'm really not into playing around with theoretical ones.
That is what DanShirley does on his thread.
I already made the point I wanted to make, regarding the "risk management" characteristics of spreads.
I will re-post CD's question regarding the risk of managing a spread, and my reply below in the next post.

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Put_Master
 

Registered: May 2009
Posts: 1029

 

08-06-12 06:11 AM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from cdcaveman:

what do you mean? what are you talking about.... are you saying that a 5 wide striked spread on a 15 dollar stock has different risk then on a 50 dollar stock?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Yes.
Assume two $100,000 accounts. All the cash in both accounts is invested in bullish put spreads.
One is all $15 5 point spreads, and the other is all $50 5 point spreads.
Thus, they both contain 200 contracts.
Assume they are both 5 week contracts, and they are both equally 15% OTM on initiation.
There is a bad market. Two weeks later they are both just barely 1% below their upper strike.

The $50 account will cost you one million dollars to buy the stocks, if it closes between the 2 strikes.
The $15 account will cost you $300,000 to buy the stocks if it closes between the strikes.
Both $100,000 accounts which used only cash to secure the spreads, put vastly different amounts of cash at risk, if you wanted the CHOICE of buying some of the stocks if put to you, in the hope of a temporary market drop and eventual recovery.
Don't you agree it's nice to have CHOICES vs panic selling (closing) for a massive loss, when the market gets a bit volatile?

In the $15 account you could consider waiting to see if the stock might recover by the time the contract expired. As buying most of the shares is not out of the question. There is no need to panic sell.
In the $50 (million dollar) account, you risk a devastating "wipe out" of your account, if you don't close your spreads for a loss immediately.
There is no potential plan "B" for the $50 spread account.

Both accounts started out "the same" in terms of $100,000 cash, spread gap, % OTM, # of contracts, ect.....
But your ability to manage them "the same" during diifficult times, could not be more different.
That is my point.
Option trading is not just about option strategies. It's also about "money management", risk management, stress management, and planning ahead for difficult times BEFORE they arrive.

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cdcaveman
 

Registered: Aug 2011
Posts: 3513

 

08-06-12 06:13 AM

OK how about I post a trade I take for real... or that I am about to take... tune in or not... but I'll be weighing strategies just like I described

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cdcaveman
 

Registered: Aug 2011
Posts: 3513

 

08-06-12 06:16 AM

I read that post... I get it... your happy with your views on all thepeople that trade different strategies and how you trade your short puts on well researched companies

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Put_Master
 

Registered: May 2009
Posts: 1029

 

08-06-12 06:29 AM


Quote from cdcaveman:

I read that post... I get it... your happy with your views on all thepeople that trade different strategies and how you trade your short puts on well researched companies


Nope. What you stated above has nothing to do with what I wrote above.
The point being, that not all similar gapped strikes of spreads should be viewed or managed similarly.
Initiating and managing a $15 (1 - 5 point gap) spread needs to be viewed and managed differently than a $50 (1- 5 point gap) spread.
Those who do not differentiate between their similarly gapped spread set-ups and management, are at a greater risk of a devastating loss to their account value, than those that do.

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