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Handle123
 

Registered: Aug 2007
Posts: 1037

 

04-15-12 12:37 AM


Quote from indextrader7:

The two real drivers of profitability:

win%(how often you are correct),

and win:loss ratio (the size of your average win:average loss)

Most all my trading stats are calculated from TICKS NOT DOLLARS. Ticks don't lie and they speak the same language to everyone.



In my concentration of trading/backtesting, I don't work on winning percentages at all, I concentrate on keeping losing percentages extremely low, once you can acheive this, you can average down on each level, so even a breakeven trade on original signal trade, you make a ton on all of the add-ons exiting at that breakeven price of original entry. My breakevens for the week are split with winning trades normally which is more than fine with me.

Whether one uses ticks or dollars really don't matter, so long as one is consistent in their backtesting and trading. I have traded so many many years using minutes, would mess me up too much as I have developed patterns that normally develop through the day.

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indextrader7
 

Registered: Apr 2012
Posts: 75

 

04-15-12 12:53 AM


Quote from Handle123:

In my concentration of trading/backtesting, I don't work on winning percentages at all, I concentrate on keeping losing percentages extremely low, once you can acheive this, you can average down on each level, so even a breakeven trade on original signal trade, you make a ton on all of the add-ons exiting at that breakeven price of original entry. My breakevens for the week are split with winning trades normally which is more than fine with me.

Whether one uses ticks or dollars really don't matter, so long as one is consistent in their backtesting and trading. I have traded so many many years using minutes, would mess me up too much as I have developed patterns that normally develop through the day.



Hey, thanks for the post and sharing your ideas!

I'm pretty sure...High winning percentage = low losing percentage. Same thing right?

When you speak of..."Average down on each level" Are you talking about doubling down on losing positions? The only time I do this is when I'm trading bad, and when I do it, I consider it a major trading mistake for me. Too risky imho. There will be times, for certain, where the market does not come back to breakeven on the original entry, and you can get burned. Even if your losing percentage is only 0.000001%

I'm not consistent in my position sizes, so my trading stats would be flawed (from a pure trading perspective) if I mainly looked at dollars (versus ticks/points). I monitor dollar p/l of course, but the significance is that it is not MY FOCUS. How good would a doctor be if his main focus through the day was on dollars, an attorney, any professional? I feel a strong need to focus on PROCESS, and to me ticks are much more pure and the same for everyone, than dollars are.

I've had a few days over the past two months where I've made really good profits for the day...that is looking at dollars. BUT if I look at how many ticks I took from the market that day, it's pretty bad (or even negative!) This usually means those "nice" dollar returns I made for the day, turn out to be very poor on a risk-adjusted basis.

My main daily measure of performance is what I call daily PMR. That is Profits to Max Risk. (Daily P/L compared to the largest risk I took that day) If this PMR isn't greater than 1, I'm not happy with my performance.

Just the way I think about things. Thanks again for sharing!

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Zr1Trader
 

Registered: Dec 2010
Posts: 1536

 

04-15-12 01:03 AM

I know a couple traders on here and myself as well gauge performance based on percentage of total daily points/ticks taken.

For instance in CL , using a min of 40 pts per swing to define a swing, you would measure what percentage of the total daily points taken were . .... per contract

For instance if there were 1000 pts offered that day with 14 swings and avg swing being 71 pts ...

experts take 40%-75% of daily points offered per contract
really good 25-40%
good 10-25%

just another way of looking at performance.

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indextrader7
 

Registered: Apr 2012
Posts: 75

 

04-15-12 01:05 AM

Just so we're all on the same page. I'm referring to ticks as the smallest incremental movement of any market.

I'm not talking about looking at 1minute charts vs 1tick charts. A 5 tick move is the same on any chart you look at.

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indextrader7
 

Registered: Apr 2012
Posts: 75

 

04-15-12 01:08 AM


Quote from Zr1Trader:

I know a couple traders on here and myself as well gauge performance based on percentage of total daily points/ticks taken.

For instance in CL , using a min of 40 pts per swing to define a swing, you would measure what percentage of the total daily points taken were . .... per contract

For instance if there were 1000 pts offered that day with 14 swings and avg swing being 71 pts .

experts take 40%-75% of daily points offered per contract
really good 25-40%
good 10-25%

just another way of looking at performance.



That is a very valid measure of performance.

I can see how it would cause problems for my emotional balance though! I would over-trade because I wanted to be a part of every swing of the market.

I think this is key. Regardless of how anyone measures performance, make sure it's the best thing YOU can measure to make you perform best, be emotionally stable, and in the very best mindset for YOUR personality.

Good stuff guys, keep it coming.

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toucan
 

Registered: Jan 2004
Posts: 117

 

04-15-12 03:07 AM

Indextrader...

Thanks for starting a good thread. A couple of questions:

1. is that tradestation you are using?

2. are the s/r lines you show standard daily pivots

3. if the s/r lines are pivots, then are they calculated using a 24 hours or just usa open hours

4. i assume your trades are not automated and your entries are based on your review of the chart in real time... do you add contracts if the trade is profitable as well as if the trade goes against you.

5. do you use targets for exits or are exits based on your review of the chart in real time

cheers

toucan

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