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Old Mar 6th, 2012, 06:16 PM   #7
Grandluxe
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Modakeke, Nigeria
Posts: 3,284
Quote:
Quote from copa8:

even if it's 50% higher than the official figure of $106.4 billion, that's still miniscule compared to the US.
The trend is very clear though, a country with more and more money to spend and one that has less and less. Also, playing defense is always cheaper than playing offense, so if and when we need to attack China by landing forces into mainland China or engage in a conflict near Chinese waters, their defensive capabilities might be more than enough to deny ours.

Don't forget that in the only direct military conflict between China and the USA since the 1950's, the Chinese 13th army comprehensively defeated the United States 8th army. It remains the longest retreat in US military history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Ch'ongch'on_River

The Chinese 13th Army first launched a series of surprise attacks along the Ch'ongch'on River Valley on the night of November 25, 1950, effectively destroying the Eighth United States Army's right flank while allowing Chinese forces to move rapidly into UN rear areas.

In the aftermath of the battle, the US Eighth Army's heavy losses forced all UN forces to evacuate North Korea and to withdraw to the 38th parallel.

The US 2nd Infantry Division was deemed to be crippled, and Keiser was relieved from command by the end of the battle.

The following 120 mi (190 km) withdrawal to the 38th parallel is often referred to as "the longest retreat in US military history."

The entire Eighth Army was also gripped with "bug out fever" during the retreat, and a song called the "Bugout Boogie" was composed to commemorate the Eighth Army's defeat.

China was also catapulted into the status of a major military power following the victory at Chosin.

With the entire UN front collapsing, the race to the Yalu was ended with the communist forces of China recapturing much of North Korea.

The Korean War would drag on for another two and a half years before the armistice was signed on 27 July 1953.
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Old Mar 6th, 2012, 06:31 PM   #8
piezoe
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Deep, deep South
Posts: 6,153
This is not good for China. Our trading partners are making a mistake to expend resources on wasting assets, while we spend ours on infrastructure, education, and social programs. We will end up much stronger economically that way. Economic power is far more important than military power.

The U.S. must have a goal of reducing military expenditure per capita by at least 50% over ten years. That is a reasonable goal and will still leave the U.S, with a capable and more than adequate military force.

China is not to be feared. No country will lay waste to an important trading partner. To paraphrase Pogo, We have already met the enemy and he is us.

The best way to deal with an increase in Chinese military spending is to ignore it. This is the twenty-first century, not the twentieth. Conventional military forces are obsolescent. Twenty-first century wars will be economic and cyberspace wars. Only primitive countries and/or countries driving by irrational religious zeal will bother building-up twentieth century weaponry in the twenty-first century.
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Old Mar 6th, 2012, 06:35 PM   #9
Tsing Tao
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 11,326
Quote:
Quote from piezoe:

This is good. It is of little concern that our trading partners expend their resources on wasting assets, while we spend ours on infrastructure, education, and social programs. We will end up much stronger economically that way. Economic power is far more important than military power.

The U.S. must have a goal of reducing military expenditure per capita by at least 50% over ten years. That is a reasonable goal and will still leave the U.S, with a capable and more than adequate military force.

China is not to be feared. No country will lay waste to an important trading partner. To paraphrase Pogo, We have already met the enemy and he is us.

The best way to deal with an increase in Chinese military spending is to ignore it. This is the twenty-first century, not the twentieth.
+1
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Old Mar 6th, 2012, 09:39 PM   #10
budcampbell
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 812
Quote:
Quote from Grandluxe:

The trend is very clear though, a country with more and more money to spend and one that has less and less. Also, playing defense is always cheaper than playing offense, so if and when we need to attack China by landing forces into mainland China or engage in a conflict near Chinese waters, their defensive capabilities might be more than enough to deny ours.

Don't forget that in the only direct military conflict between China and the USA since the 1950's, the Chinese 13th army comprehensively defeated the United States 8th army. It remains the longest retreat in US military history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Ch'ongch'on_River

The Chinese 13th Army first launched a series of surprise attacks along the Ch'ongch'on River Valley on the night of November 25, 1950, effectively destroying the Eighth United States Army's right flank while allowing Chinese forces to move rapidly into UN rear areas.

In the aftermath of the battle, the US Eighth Army's heavy losses forced all UN forces to evacuate North Korea and to withdraw to the 38th parallel.

The US 2nd Infantry Division was deemed to be crippled, and Keiser was relieved from command by the end of the battle.

The following 120 mi (190 km) withdrawal to the 38th parallel is often referred to as "the longest retreat in US military history."

The entire Eighth Army was also gripped with "bug out fever" during the retreat, and a song called the "Bugout Boogie" was composed to commemorate the Eighth Army's defeat.

China was also catapulted into the status of a major military power following the victory at Chosin.

With the entire UN front collapsing, the race to the Yalu was ended with the communist forces of China recapturing much of North Korea.

The Korean War would drag on for another two and a half years before the armistice was signed on 27 July 1953.
Chinese flooded the border with trumpets and a million troops, backed up by MIGS in Korea. US can't deploy enough fighters and A-10 warthogs and is massively outnumbered on the ground. Statements on attacking China with something like "Desert Shield" is laughable.
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Old Mar 6th, 2012, 11:22 PM   #11
TheAngryHermit
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 763
I've been playing a lot of Modern Warfare 3 and I think I can pretty much take out the whole Chinese army myself if I can get a Juggernaut Suit care package dropped on my coordinates.
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Old Mar 11th, 2012, 12:37 PM   #12
Grandluxe
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Modakeke, Nigeria
Posts: 3,284
Quote:
Quote from budcampbell:

Chinese flooded the border with trumpets and a million troops, backed up by MIGS in Korea. US can't deploy enough fighters and A-10 warthogs and is massively outnumbered on the ground. Statements on attacking China with something like "Desert Shield" is laughable.
The Chinese entered the war on the back of a devastating civil war that claimed millions of lives in China 1945-49.

By the time the PLA crossed the Yalu River, America and the UN already had air supremacy over the Korean peninsula, which is why under strict military discipline upon pain of death, the PLA only marched at night under cover of darkness.

Whether one has more men or less men is hardly the issue, every participant in war uses his advantage, be it in numbers or technology.

Saddam had a million men under his command but that did not prevent Iraq from being overrun by a numerically inferior number of troops in weeks.

Marshal Peng De-Huai , supreme commander of Chinese forces in the Korean theatre outwitted the entire US command by subtly instituting a series of feints and retreats and releasing POWS along the way so as to maintain the appearance of weakness in their logistics, the US army fell for it, its own supply lines were overstetched and were subsequently at Chosin and Chong'Chon enveloped by the Chinese 9th and 13th army respectively. It was only a very spirited defence by the Turkish and British contingents that a devastated 8th army escaped somewhat intact. The turks paid for it as their entire brigade disintegrated. A memorial to this particular brigade can still be seen today in the centre of Ankara,turkey. I was there last year.

Who do you think wrote the Art of war? Half the 8th army collapsed and the 2nd marine division effectively lost all combat capabilities.

The only major mistake the Chinese made was by not pursuing UN and american troops when they evacuated from the Hungnam beachhead, historians conclude that with the mass concentration of 100,000+troops on the beachhead, a concerted Chinese artillery assault would effectively have wiped out the US X corps.

The point of war is not to lose more or less men but to attain your strategic objectives. In this instance, the USA certainly did not do that, it failed to accomplish Macarthur's objectives of not only destroying the North Korean regime but also bringing China under American dominance. On the other hand, Mao succeeded by keeping American troops at bay with Kim's buffer state.
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