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    Forums ›› Main ›› ETFs ›› would you like to see double inverse short term VIX?  

VOTE : double inverse short term VIX
This poll is closed.
YES 5 71.43%
NO 0 0%
Why Bother 1 14.29%
Too much risk for me 1 14.29%
I have an ethical dilemma to making easy money 0 0%
Total: 7 votes 100%
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PHOENIX TRADING
 

Registered: Mar 2012
Posts: 6715

 

03-05-12 01:42 AM

Vote if you would like to see a double inverse short term VIX ETF or ETN.

Essentially short TVIX or UVXY.

I'm highly interested, tell me why you would or would not be:
especially idiosyncrasies and caveats to said instruments.


Primary advantages from my point of view:
1) Available in retirement accounts
2) A re-balancing schedule would decrease trading
3) Re-balancing would essentially offer leverage and
you wouldn't find yourself searching for shares to borrow.
4) Your shorts wouldn't be called away at the worst time.

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PHOENIX TRADING
 

Registered: Mar 2012
Posts: 6715

 

03-06-12 02:05 PM

With the overwhelming response to this thread I suspect
Double XIV isn't gonna happen.

thanks to all who read my poll.

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Maverick74
 

Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 17314

 

03-09-12 05:36 AM


Quote from PHOENIX TRADING:

With the overwhelming response to this thread I suspect
Double XIV isn't gonna happen.

thanks to all who read my poll.



There is already XIV. Why do you want a 2x? The double and triple X ETF's have failed miserably. They don't work...period! The closest products that work are the one X and we have one available.

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PHOENIX TRADING
 

Registered: Mar 2012
Posts: 6715

 

03-09-12 01:43 PM


Quote from Maverick74:

There is already XIV. Why do you want a 2x? The double and triple X ETF's have failed miserably. They don't work...period! The closest products that work are the one X and we have one available.




What are you talking about?
1) There already is a 2x long short term vix (tvix): so a 2x short is
not a stretch.
2) you call trading 10 million shares /day a miserable failure?

Do you mean it's a bad investment?

Sure if you pick investments by their cute sounding names from a magazine and don't know what you are investing in, you can get burned.

They are momentum plays and hedging instruments in general.
More specifically your comments make me think you don't really
understand XIV and the decay of tvix.

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Maverick74
 

Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 17314

 

03-09-12 02:30 PM


Quote from PHOENIX TRADING:

What are you talking about?
1) There already is a 2x long short term vix (tvix): so a 2x short is
not a stretch.
2) you call trading 10 million shares /day a miserable failure?

Do you mean it's a bad investment?

Sure if you pick investments by their cute sounding names from a magazine and don't know what you are investing in, you can get burned.

They are momentum plays and hedging instruments in general.
More specifically your comments make me think you don't really
understand XIV and the decay of tvix.



There are about 40 VIX products out there and I'm aware of most of them and their decay function. But what you don't seem to understand is the decay function has to do with their structure, not whether it's long or short vol. The XIV is down 35% over the last 12 months. The VIX is flat!!!!!! And XIV is a one X instrument. This means you could get long XIV with the VIX at 20 and the VIX could go to 15 and you could actually be down 25% to 50% in XIV. How the hell are you profiting from that?

The way to make money on these things (your so called easy money) is to short the f*ck out of every one of these things because they are all going to zero. Problem is there are no shares available to short.

I've been trading option volatility for 15 years fwiw.

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PHOENIX TRADING
 

Registered: Mar 2012
Posts: 6715

 

03-09-12 03:16 PM


Quote from Maverick74:

There are about 40 VIX products out there and I'm aware of most of them and their decay function. But what you don't seem to understand is the decay function has to do with their structure, not whether it's long or short vol. The XIV is down 35% over the last 12 months. The VIX is flat!!!!!! And XIV is a one X instrument. This means you could get long XIV with the VIX at 20 and the VIX could go to 15 and you could actually be down 25% to 50% in XIV. How the hell are you profiting from that?

The way to make money on these things (your so called easy money) is to short the f*ck out of every one of these things because they are all going to zero. Problem is there are no shares available to short.

I've been trading option volatility for 15 years fwiw.



Good lord I never said it was a buy n forget it instrument.
concerning your advise to short them all
Yes I'd like to short tvix but i can't in an ira, So yes I would go long an etf that shorts tvix.
But since you are the expert I will let you continue to be wrong on this issue.

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