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Humpy
Registered: Apr 2005
Posts: 2215 |
02-15-12 08:54 AM
I'm brushing up on my German - they are taking over Europe as we knew it !
EIN ZWEI
EIN ZWEI
EIN ZWEI
Heil Frau Frumpy
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Humpy
Registered: Apr 2005
Posts: 2215 |
02-15-12 11:07 AM
Quote from intradaybill:
Similar situations happened in other countries. The result was Germany owing the Greek Telecommunications, main Athens Airport and other key businesses they bought by forcing Greeks to do privatizations in the name of free markets while keeping their own industry under heavy government control.
The story is much more complicated and it shows the way the Germans handled power within the EU and drive other countries to default with the objective of buying them cheap and getting their resources.
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Huge mistake letting foreign companies take over national companies. It keeps happening in Britain too !! But the politicians just can't learn that lesson. For instance Cadburys, the multinational even promised not to asset strip it but within months factories were closed. Steel, football clubs etc. etc.
Keep one's sovereignty and dignity or become economic slaves eventually imho. Make sure one's politicians don't sell-out to the competition and lose jobs etc. They aren't interested in the companies that need saving, oh no, only the best companies are bought and then stripped usually !
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GTS
Registered: Jun 2006
Posts: 2188 |
02-15-12 12:54 PM
Quote from noone3:
These are facts, not biases
Selectively presenting "facts" to support a one-sided viewpoint is an example of having a bias.
Everything wrong with Greece is everyone elses fault - yea, good story, stick with that.
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Humpy
Registered: Apr 2005
Posts: 2215 |
02-15-12 02:04 PM
Quote from Humpy:
. Make sure one's politicians don't sell-out to the competition and lose jobs etc. They aren't interested in the companies that need saving, oh no, only the best companies are bought and then stripped usually !
Where money is king and greed is good - politicians just don't seem able to resist buckets of dough !
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Ed Breen
Registered: Jan 2010
Posts: 484 |
02-15-12 02:42 PM
The political class in Greece conflated the idea of income and debt and treated both as revenue. That worked so long as new debt was forthcoming. Now, that new debt is not forthcoming the political class is forced to confront a basic truth, and this is the key to Greek future prospects. That truth is that income is different from debt. You cannot repay debt with debt; it requires income. The present schemes really do not fully grasp this basic truth as they are all schemes to pay debt with debt and the pretense is that the income to pay the old debt and the new debt will come from 'austerity.' The hard realization that must be admitted before Greece can move on is that reduced spending is not 'income' either. 'Austerity' is not a substitute for growth; it is a failure to grow. 'Austerity' is not income; it is a failure to produce income. So, you can't pay debt with 'austerity' either.
This leaves Greece with only one solution. It has to create a plan to grow and then it can pay only so much debt as the growth plan will allow...the rest has to be written off; it cannot be paid. This is a difficult position becuase they will have to go through a transition with no functioning currency. They have few basic industries that are poised for growth. Tourism has never been a path to success and the failure of the currency and related social unrest will contract tourism before low prices will allow it to come back. Nonetheless, there is an inevitabilty that default will occur and credit will contract making the economy shrink to a clearing point before it can grow again.
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d08
Registered: Aug 2008
Posts: 1369 |
02-15-12 03:22 PM
Quote from intradaybill:
No, you are of course wrong and it seems you have no idea how the EU works. Please do not make false analogies.
When Greece joined the EU they were offered money packages to reduce their agricultural production so other countries could compete with the Greek cheap products. They were offered incentives to destroy farmland in exchange for cash to buy German cars. As a result the high current account deficit.
When they got the euro they lost the right to devalue currency and be competitive, they were left with reduced farmland, privatized industries bought by Germans and cash incentives not to grow certain products so that Spanish, Italians and other countries can have a competitive advantage. The Greek politicians accepted all that possibly in exchange for positions and support from the EU while the country current account balance was growing along with the debt.
Similar situations happened in other countries. The result was Germany owing the Greek Telecommunications, main Athens Airport and other key businesses they bought by forcing Greeks to do privatizations in the name of free markets while keeping their own industry under heavy government control.
The story is much more complicated and it shows the way the Germans handled power within the EU and drive other countries to default with the objective of buying them cheap and getting their resources.
Also, some of you do not know that Germany defaulted in 1952 (I think then) and Greece was one of the poor and destroyed countries by Nazis then that actually shared the cost of the funding to rebuild Germany.
Germany still owes Greece about half a trillion dollars from war reparations and refuses to pay it.
1. Greece agreed to take the euro as they also benefited from a stable currency.
2. The fact that Greek businesses (and government) are ran so badly, is not the fault of the Germans.
3. The Greeks elected the same politicians who made these decisions and here we are now. They aren't victims as you portray them.
You must be Greek to mention some ridiculous "half a trillion dollars", a number taken from air and having no meaning whatsoever. How many trillions does the US with allies owe to Iraq and Afghanistan then?
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