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Bear Trader
Registered: Aug 2011
Posts: 26 |
02-10-12 10:54 PM
the biggest flaw in many of these tales is that - these guys who are said to have started with small amounts really had more equity than they are letting out.
I know a good number of people who started trading with around $50k but had over $2m in the bank. These guys could leverage big risk looking for the one big moves. And some did well.
The heroic story sounds better when they make out the started with only a small amount. It's all spin.
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atticus
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 12600 |
02-10-12 11:04 PM
Quote from Bear Trader:
the biggest flaw in many of these tales is that - these guys who are said to have started with small amounts really had more equity than they are letting out.
I know a good number of people who started trading with around $50k but had over $2m in the bank. These guys could leverage big risk looking for the one big moves. And some did well.
The heroic story sounds better when they make out the started with only a small amount. It's all spin.
I know the guy in my story never added a dime to the initial $10-$12k. He was trading with BOM and hit like 30 consecutive wins averaging better than 10% per trade. $10k to $300k the first year. $2MM the second year, at which time he moved to UBS. He was hitting position limits, so adding cash would've been a hindrance. He hit $10MM the third year and opened an GmbH and a PB relationship.
He destroyed UBS (FX); BNP and SocGen's equity exotics desks. He has a great feel for short-term turns and would often go up to 50% of capital in 1W NTs and DNTs. I recall one trade in which he bought an NT in the SP500 that was 13 pts otm. He bought the NT for $4MM with a NT payout of $10MM. At the time his capital was ~$11MM. Huge balls. Bet paid.
There is no better gearing than American exotics. Certainly a lot easier to fathom than a guy trading RegT. I learned a ton from the guy. The bets are easy to price and tough to hedge (Derman), but what is amazing (to me) is that he didn't replicate even after hitting $20MM. IIRC, he was forced to hedge OTC and listed when he hit $40-$50MM. I know it took roughly 3 years to go from $10MM to $100MM, all organic growth and after-tax.
Haters gonna hate.
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Pigsky
Registered: Feb 2012
Posts: 37 |
02-10-12 11:15 PM
How you know they already have 2 million?
I agree some trader on forum pretending to be profit when they are not. Ego boost and online fantasy life.
however unless you have proof they were already millionaire you just making accusations of thin air...... but i understand skeptic view, it will always be there.......
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atticus
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 12600 |
02-10-12 11:38 PM
One last point. The German did this in complete sh*t equity markets. He didn't benefit from the equity bubble. He did this all from 2001 to late-2009.
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HATEtheRisk
Registered: Aug 2011
Posts: 1587 |
02-10-12 11:39 PM
Quote from atticus:
I know the guy in my story never added a dime to the initial $10-$12k. He was trading with BOM and hit like 30 consecutive wins averaging better than 10% per trade. $10k to $300k the first year. $2MM the second year, at which time he moved to UBS. He was hitting position limits, so adding cash would've been a hindrance. He hit $10MM the third year and opened an gmbh and a PB relationship.
He destroyed UBS (FX); BNP and SocGen's equity exotics desks. His had a great feel for short-term turns and would often go up to 50% of capital in 1W NTs and DNTs. I recall one trade in which he bought an NT in the SP500 that was 13 pts otm. He bought the NT for $4MM with a NT payout of $10MM. At the time his capital was ~$11MM. Huge balls. Bet paid.
There is no better gearing than American exotics. Certainly a lot easier to fathom than a guy trading RegT. I learned a ton from the guy. The bets are easy to price and tough to hedge (Derman), but what is amazing (to me) is that he didn't replicate even after hitting $20MM. IIRC, he was forced to hedge OTC and listed when he hit $40-$50MM. I know it took roughly 3 years to go from $10MM to $100MM, all organic growth and after-tax.
Haters gonna hate.
Amazing story.
What do you think, how much money can a retail trader make with trading FX, Futures & Stocks.
And second in private banking, as to start with $5M?
Lets say for 20 years trading, with 11 monhts profit a year and 1 month holiday.
Thank you
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atticus
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 12600 |
02-10-12 11:54 PM
Quote from HATEtheRisk:
Amazing story.
What do you think, how much money can a retail trader make with trading FX, Futures & Stocks.
And second in private banking, as to start with $5M?
Lets say for 20 years trading, with 11 monhts profit a year and 1 month holiday.
Thank you
I know traders who have turned $5k into $200k, but invariably give-up a 40-50% drawdown. With shares it's extremely difficult under regT and this volatility. FX at 50x is more reasonable, but most of those guys are degens and must blow-out to satisfy their aberrant psych.
FX traded as an equity proxy on a swing-basis is probably one's greatest opportunity, outside of American exotics and/or listed option spreads/combos.
I am not sure I understand the "private banking" question other than to say that he waited to hit $10MM before establishing a PB relationship. UBS took his account from the $2MM level. He was trading FX exotics at that time and it was his toughest period (his words). Too big to trade retail and too small to trade OTC equity exotics (at $2MM)
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