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kinggyppo
 

Registered: May 2006
Posts: 5855

 

03-23-12 07:38 PM


Quote from trefoil:

1.9%.
50:1 odds.
Hmm...



bout the same odds as a retail schlub making $$ on tvix.

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trefoil
 

Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 3390

 

04-16-12 01:39 AM


Quote from kinggyppo:

bout the same odds as a retail schlub making $$ on tvix.



...speaking of which, John Dizard's weekend column in the FT was all about the Vix, and had this to say:



Vix products are not for rational investors

“Everyone knows” that US residential real estate is a bad investment, with the Case Shiller Home Price Index having dropped by about 32 per cent since its 2005 peak. At the end of last week, the iPath S&P 500 Vix Short Term Futures Exchange Traded Note had lost that much in one month. Not seven years. One month. Over the previous six months, the vehicle had lost more than 69 per cent of its value. The managers didn’t do anything other than rigorously follow their charter, and their strategy has been fully disclosed, along with the trading history...
...Back in the real world, could the apparently frantic trading in Vix products threaten the financial system?
I doubt it, but the hedging activities generated by the Vix family may have had some effects on the S&P 500 Index. Howard Simons, of Chicago-area-based Arbor Research & Trading, says that on big down days the hedging requirements of those selling volatility products such as the Vix futures “requires more selling (in the S&P 500) in a cycle, reminiscent of the portfolio insurance made infamous in the 1987 crash”. But if the market makers’ hedging can exacerbate a sharp daily decline, it also leads to much more rapid recoveries in following days, as the price of implied volatility jumps. Over longer periods of time, Mr Simons, an acid Vix sceptic, believes that “the tail [the Vix] has wagged the dog [the S&P 500] and has compressed what used to be normal higher levels of volatility into a mix of a few bad days and a large number of quiet days”.
...and when you buy Vix futures or options, you are not actually buying “volatility”. Those products are based on the prices of forward start variance swaps. If you don’t know what that means, don’t buy Vix products.



Two things jump out of this:

1 - I started up a new - still small - position in May last week, and on Friday I experienced, on a tiny scale, what Dizard may have been talking about as to how on big down days you have to keep adding on. I went negative on vega in the first half of the day because the SPY put spreads were all well in the money. Figured I needed to add a little to put it back to positive. So I added one 137/131 @1.45, financed with a 19/23 Vix May call spread that I sold for 1.43. SPY was approaching 138 when this executed, and of course ended very close to 137. This made my vega slightly positive for the open tomorrow.
2 - "Forward start variance swaps": did a little research on this, and the first part is simple: forward start just means it starts at some point in the future with an underlying whose price is not yet known, of course, because of that future start. Variance swaps are swaps that pay off the diff between implied and realized vol. Now I don't recall seeing that either the options or the futures on Vix are based on variance swaps. The options I always understood to be options on the Vix futures, and the Vix futures I always thought were just futures on the Vix itself. Is Dizard right about this? And if so, does it matter? Do I really care?

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babutime
 

Registered: Feb 2012
Posts: 451

 

04-16-12 04:16 AM


Quote from trefoil:

."Forward start variance swaps": did a little research on this, and the first part is simple: forward start just means it starts at some point in the future with an underlying whose price is not yet known, of course, because of that future start. Variance swaps are swaps that pay off the diff between implied and realized vol. Now I don't recall seeing that either the options or the futures on Vix are based on variance swaps. The options I always understood to be options on the Vix futures, and the Vix futures I always thought were just futures on the Vix itself. Is Dizard right about this? And if so, does it matter? Do I really care?



I don't believe there's any "variance swap" involved as in a real swap where cash is exchanged when realized vs expected vol prices differ based on some notional amount.

What IS involved in calculating vix itself is the OTM calls and puts of options expiring in 30 days (which is usually a weighted average of two different expirations since only once in a while do you get an option expiring in 30 days..)

And he's right to a degree. You're not really buying volatility when you buy the VIX. The VIX attempts to isolate in its pricing only the volatility component as proposed by Derman in his quite long paper (I've always hated reading it). Continual hedged portfolios (keyword- portfolio. Hence the use of SPX) resemble a variance swap says Derman. But he makes assumptions:

The most important (and glaringly erroneous ) assumption is this:



We show how a variance swap can be theoretically replicated by a hedged portfolio of standard options with suitably chosen strikes, as long as stock prices evolve without jumps



I think we all know why that might not be a suitable assumption which leads to why VIX doesn't (completely) reflect volatility, which is why (to a larger degree) that author might be right.

I'd be willing to read more by others (and without a doubt far more experienced practitioners than I) on this...

---

This is neat too. I always find it amusing to read...

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers....tract_id=970480

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sle
 

Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 1610

 

04-16-12 03:51 PM


Quote from babutime:
I don't believe there's any "variance swap" involved as in a real swap where cash is exchanged when realized vs expected vol prices differ based on some notional amount.


I think you need to understand (in order of importance)
(a) what a variance swap is and how to replicate it (and yes, it works, the jump component on SPX is relatively small)
(b) what forward variance swap is and how it can be linearly replicated via spot-starting variance swaps
(c) what is the exact definition of the vix futures and why a vix futures contract is NOT a forward variance swap

Additional points are:
1. So far, my experience have been that majority of people who trade VIX products have no real clue what they are talking about
2. Anything that has the Talebs name on it has to be taken with a brick of salt (e.g the paper you have linked up)

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sellindexvol66
 

Registered: Apr 2008
Posts: 609

 

04-16-12 03:58 PM


Quote from sle:

I think you need to understand (in order of importance)
(a) what a variance swap is and how to replicate it (and yes, it works, the jump component on SPX is relatively small)
(b) what forward variance swap is and how it can be linearly replicated via spot-starting variance swaps
(c) what is the exact definition of the vix futures and why a vix futures contract is NOT a forward variance swap

Additional points are:
1. So far, my experience have been that majority of people who trade VIX products have no real clue what they are talking about
2. Anything that has the Talebs name on it has to be taken with a brick of salt (e.g the paper you have linked up)



i certainly hope the part time vix traders re read your points. i will add from my experience that anyone who trades vix products who is not dedicated to it full time will get wacked, and if they do not get blown out right away wins would be pure luck imo. this stuff is complicated, most guys would be better off trading traditional stuff.

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trefoil
 

Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 3390

 

04-16-12 04:07 PM


Quote from sellindexvol66:

i certainly hope the part time vix traders re read your points. i will add from my experience that anyone who trades vix products who is not dedicated to it full time will get wacked, and if they do not get blown out right away wins would be pure luck imo. this stuff is complicated, most guys would be better off trading traditional stuff.



Many thanks. I'm putting someone on this whole thing, both reading up on it and executing various strategies on paper to see how it all plays out, while I diddle around in small lots doing stuff for real for comparison purposes. Don't know if we'll go all out once we're done, but I figure the research into how this all works will help in other areas, so it'll still be time well spent.

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