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gwb-trading
 

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 1652

 

01-09-12 05:01 PM

reply to SouthAmerica:

So suddenly this thread has turned into prisons in America and not about SLAVERY in BRAZIL - nice re-direct. --- but I will play...

Let me point out a few things about prisons in America:
- Fewer than 7% of the inmates have jobs. Only the most trusted inmates are allowed to work. The privilege to work is something that inmates beg to be allowed to do. In some states inmates who work are eligible for early release due to the work.

- The total number of prisoners who work in the U.S. in paid positions is under 100,000. This does not really impact the unemployment rate or compete with the private sector; nor is this in any form "job creation" (especially since the number has gone down for the past three years). The 8 million illegal immigrants working in the U.S. have a much greater impact on the unemployment of American citizens and competing in the private sector.

- By law, inmate-produced goods can only be used inside prisons or sold only to government agencies - and does not directly compete with private businesses or labor. This law is from the 1950s.

- The average yearly cost for locking up a prisoner in the U.S. is $37K. This cost is not offset by prisoner work.

- Even private prison contractors such Wackenhut and the Corrections Corporation of America (CCA) must adhere to federal law and can not publicly sell in the U.S. products made in prisons. Any time these corporations slip up regarding this law, the government sues them and terminates the contract with the facility.

- There are no states in the U.S. where the money spent by the state on the prison system is greater than the money spent on K-12 education.

- In North Carolina where I live, prisoners clean up the roads, mow the yard at the governor's mansion, make license plates, make furniture for state offices, and other tasks for the state government. As per federal law they do not make items which are sold to the public.

- Over 60% of Americans support building more prisons and hiring more prison guards. The reason criminals are placed in prison is their problem with personal responsibility, not due all the nonsense about their "poor childhood, etc." with a bunch of phooey psychological nonsense. If you can't do the time then do not prey on society and do the crime.

I agree that "the prison system is a very complex subject with many social and financial implications." I will also state that the prison system in the U.S. is much better than any country south of the U.S. in Latin or South America.

Let me also state that the mainstream media in the U.S. has closely followed the debate around prisons and it is regularly reported on. The basic reaction of American citizens is "Good - put the prisoners to work, lock them up for a long time so they do no more crime."

In regards to the drug issue, your input is that is a "demand problem" in the U.S. rather than a "supply issue" from South America. Let me state that there was never a demand for these drugs in the U.S. until the governments in South America supported their creation and shipment. The demand in the U.S. only occurred after countries in South America started "pushing" their supply.

Of course, if you want to discuss drugs I would be happy to post the links showing that a much greater percentage of the population in South American countries are coke users than in the U.S. The difference is that in the U.S. we have a "War on Drugs" and lock these people up while in South America there seems to be little enforcement of drug laws so users are free to roam the street and steal for their next hit.


Quote from SouthAmerica:

Gwb-trading: “In regards to your thoughts about U.S. prisons; let me give you the general thoughts about prisons from the U.S. population.

"If you can't do the time then don't do the crime"

"Unlike other countries we prefer to have our criminals locked up in prison than running through the streets."

I would put up the prison conditions in a U.S. condition against the prisons located anywhere south of the U.S. border. Would your prisoners prefer to be incarcerated in U.S. prison or one of the prisons in a South American country. (Let me help you with the answer with this - the U.S. receives an endless line of requests from prisoners in your prisons begging to be transferred and serve their sentence in a U.S. prison).

In a nice clean U.S. prison, the inmates get three square meals per day plus snacks, cable T.V., gyms, exercise, medical care, dental care, education (including college degrees) and other perks not seen in many countries outside the U.S. Asking the prisoners to work a little each day to develop job skills so they will not become repeat offenders when they are released is part of a rehabilitation program. Even better they do get paid for their labor so they can buy items at a store in the prison including electronics, etc.


*****


January 9, 2012

SouthAmerica: The prison system is a very complex subject with many social and financial implications.

In most countries around the world they have better solutions that makes more sense socially and economically than the system that we have in the United States.

The American prison system is so screwed up that today many states spend more money with its prison system than with education.

I wrote on my book that the US prison system is not about crime and punishment – it's about using poor uneducated people that the US government had no idea how to use them to create a system to lock them up and create a new industry to provide jobs here in the United States.

I just found a video where Noam Chomsky says the same thing about the US prison system.

The prison industrial complex in the United States is very large and an important source of job creation in the United States.

As usual most Americans are clueless about the implications and massive costs associated with their simplistic solutions: in this case related to crime and punishment.

If anything with the new law that the US government just passed the prison system in the United States is going to grow by leaps and bounds.

The mainstream media in the United States is completely worthless and they are not allowed to talk about this subject just like many others.


*****


Gwb-trading: “Do prisons in Brazil pay prisoners for their labor?

Comparing having a person locked up for a crime in prison work (a criminal) to an individual forced into slave labor conditions who is not guilty of any crime is an absurd. Keep in mind that all the work programs in U.S. prisons are VOLUNTARY - prisoners do not have to work to earn money if they do not want to -- but it is strongly urged that they develop some work skills.

Of course, over 50% of the prisoners in U.S. prisons are serving sentences for drug related offenses. The source of all of these drugs is cartels in South and Central America. This simply means that the countries sheltering these cartels are ultimately responsible for placing these people in U.S prisons - if you want to follow the drug trade money.


*****


SouthAmerica: The prisons in Brazil are like hell: over crowded, dirty, disgusting in every way.

The drug trade is about money, and they are just supplying the goods for a nation full of junkies.

The United States is the country that created the demand for illegal drugs and that demand it would be met one way or another.

The real problem is here in the United States: its large number of junkies that create the demand for the illegal drugs.

Never mind the illegal drugs, Americans take billions and billions of US dollars every year of legal drugs as well which makes the pharmaceutical industry one of the most profitable businesses in the old USA.


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zdreg
 

Registered: Oct 2003
Posts: 8326

 

01-09-12 05:23 PM


Quote from SouthAmerica:

January 9, 2012

SouthAmerica: Here Noam Chomsky talks about the black population in the USA and its connection to the US prison system.

Regarding Latin America he mentions how the United States is losing control of South America.


Noam Chomsky Pt. 2: Slavery by Another Name – October 5, 2011








Noam Chomsky Pt. 3: Latin America






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*noam chomsky is an apologists for the khmer rouge. and has justified the killing fields. never accept a word he says.

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SouthAmerica
 

Registered: May 2005
Posts: 4059

 

01-09-12 06:00 PM

January 9, 2012

SouthAmerica: Reply to zdreg

Watch some of these videos then you might change your mind about Noam Chomsky:

http://thefinalcollapseoftheusdolla...omsky_8716.html



.

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zdreg
 

Registered: Oct 2003
Posts: 8326

 

01-09-12 06:04 PM


Quote from SouthAmerica:

January 9, 2012

SouthAmerica: Reply to zdreg

Watch some of these videos then you might change your mind about Noam Chomsky:

http://thefinalcollapseoftheusdolla...omsky_8716.html



.


it is titled collapse of the dollar.

there is no video with that title.

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SouthAmerica
 

Registered: May 2005
Posts: 4059

 

01-09-12 09:50 PM

January 9, 2012

SouthAmerica: Reply to zdreg

http://thefinalcollapseoftheusdolla...down-of-us.html


I posted a bunch of stuff under that single blog title.


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SouthAmerica
 

Registered: May 2005
Posts: 4059

 

01-10-12 08:14 AM

gwb-trading: The total number of prisoners who work in the U.S. in paid positions is under 100,000. This does not really impact the unemployment rate or compete with the private sector; nor is this in any form "job creation" (especially since the number has gone down for the past three years). The 8 million illegal immigrants working in the U.S. have a much greater impact on the unemployment of American citizens and competing in the private sector.

- By law, inmate-produced goods can only be used inside prisons or sold only to government agencies - and does not directly compete with private businesses or labor. This law is from the 1950s.


*****


January 10, 2012

SouthAmerica: Reply to gwb-trading

The law about prison labor changed in 1979.

The prison industrial complex became a big business in the US since the 1970's and a source of job creation, which includes the construction of all these prisons, and the large amount of people necessary to keep the prison system operating 7/24 365 days per year.

It takes a lot of people and money to warehouse 2.3 million people in the United States prison system.


US Prison Labor
http://www1.american.edu/ted/jail.htm

...The United States has seen a recent increase in the number of private firm/correctional facility partnerships that uses prison labor to manufacture goods and provide services. On the rise since the creation of the Prison Industries Enhancement (PIE) program in 1979, prison-industry partnerships have risen 200 percent.

Described by some as a program designed to fill the boring days of an inmates’ life and a way to prepare them for life after release by giving them marketable skills, PIE fills a need for cheap labor.

However, many others have begun to notice the fundamental flaws with the program, among them low wages, the increased number of inmates, and the refusal by correctional facilities to allow inspectors into plants.

...In 1979 the Justice System Improvement Act allowed for privatization of prisons and for the transport of their goods across state boundaries. After this change in law, prison industry profits jumped from $392 million to $1.31 billion. However, the Depression legislation still holds true for state and federally run prisons.

...Many companies use prison labor, so it is likely that most Americans have bought goods or used services provided or created by inmates. Items ranging from clothing, such as Victoria’s Secret and blue jeans, and computers to services such as data entry and telemarketing are all made and performed by prison labor. As another bonus, prison made goods do not have to be labeled as such and often are appealing to companies who wish to be able to put "made in the USA" on their products.

Companies that Use Prison Labor In the USA

MicroJet, Nike, Lockhart Technologies, Inc., United Vision Group, Chatleff Controls, TWA, Dell Computers, Microsoft, Eddie Bauer, Planet Hollywood, Redwood Outdoors, Wilson Sporting Goods, Union Bay, Elliot Bay, A&I Manufacturing, Washington Marketing Group, Omega Pacific, J.C. Penney, Victoria's Secret, Best Western Hotels, Honda, K-Mart, Target, Kwalu, Inc., McDonald's, Hawaiian Tropical Products, Burger King, "Prison Blues" jeans line, New York, New York Hotel/Casino, Impereal Palace Hotel/Casino, Crisp Country Solid Waste Management Authority, "No Fear" Clothing Line, C.M.T. Blues, Konica, Allstate, Merrill Lynch, Shearson Lehman, Louisiana Pacific, Parke-Davis, Upjohn

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