HOME FORUMS BROKERS SOFTWARE BOOKS CONTACT US
Elite Trader Your Account  •  Become a Member  •  Help  •  Search    
    Forums ›› Main ›› Trading ›› Shorting without borrowing stock  


Post A Reply
    Page 1 of 2:   1  2  
sondermark
 

Registered: Nov 2010
Posts: 26

 

10-27-11 07:19 AM

Hi,

I am working on a strategy that requires me to short stocks that are expensive to borrow. In many cases it is impractical to create synthetic short stock via options so I would like hear your opinions on an alternative way.

When selling stocks you need to deliver the sold stock to the buyer within three days, so to sell short I need to borrow the stock from someone before this deadline. To avoid this I am considering to repeatedly selling short and covering within three days (when it is cheaper than to borrow the stock) for the entire period where I need to be short.

Anyone know if this is allowed?


Kind regards,
Steffan

    Edit/Delete • Quote • Complain
ASE1245
 

Registered: Oct 2011
Posts: 108

 

10-27-11 11:19 AM


Quote from sondermark:

Hi,

I am working on a strategy that requires me to short stocks that are expensive to borrow. In many cases it is impractical to create synthetic short stock via options so I would like hear your opinions on an alternative way.

When selling stocks you need to deliver the sold stock to the buyer within three days, so to sell short I need to borrow the stock from someone before this deadline. To avoid this I am considering to repeatedly selling short and covering within three days (when it is cheaper than to borrow the stock) for the entire period where I need to be short.

Anyone know if this is allowed?


Kind regards,
Steffan



That's not the way it works. If you're selling a stock short, that's NOT on the easy to borrow list, you MUST get a locate from your clearance firm,before you short the stock. If you get the locate, it's not your responsibility to find stock to deliver. The short borrow responsibility goes to the clearance firm which is the one that's short, because in a margin account your positions are held is 'street" name, not yours. If they fail on delivery, they will let know know if they have buy in risk, and how much of that buy in will be your responsibility.

Synthetic shorts through either options or synthetic products that some firm offer, typically cost more that the stock borrow, but remove all or most of the buy in risk. For me, I like to keep it simple. I get a locate and sell short. If I can't get the locate, I use options to get short deltas.

    Edit/Delete • Quote • Complain
sondermark
 

Registered: Nov 2010
Posts: 26

 

10-27-11 11:29 AM

Thank you for your reply.

I am referring to situations where I am able to locate the stock at the point of sale (stock can be borrowed) but the borrowing costs are high. Sometimes it is cheaper to “roll over” the position every three days than to actually borrow the stock and deliver it.

Sorry for not having explained this good enough.


Kind regards,
Steffan

    Edit/Delete • Quote • Complain
FrankSlaughtery
 

Registered: Aug 2010
Posts: 810

 

10-27-11 12:07 PM

+1 to everything ase1245 said.

re the op's latest post that mentioned "rolling over" every 3 days to avoid high borrow costs, IMO there is no way around the high borrow costs otherwise everyone would've done it. like ase1245 said, your options (pun intended) are limited: long puts or short and pay high borrowing costs (remember your gains from shorting must be higher than the costs of the borrow - i've seen some borrow rates above 100% annualized so if you made 10% shorting XYZ in a month (a great return) you've broken even essentially).

long story short (more puns - curse of a trader) there is no way around the borrow process.

    Edit/Delete • Quote • Complain
Options12
 

Registered: Sep 2011
Posts: 550

 

03-04-12 04:22 PM

The SEC recently fined a market-maker for trying to get around the borrow process:

Respondent shall, within ten (10) days of the entry of this Order, pay disgorgement of $1,500,000 and prejudgment interest of $336,094 and a civil money penalty in the amount of $250,000 to the United States Treasury.

http://www.sec.gov/litigation/admin/2011/34-65941.pdf

    Edit/Delete • Quote • Complain
tenthousandmen
 

Registered: Dec 2011
Posts: 728

 

03-04-12 04:40 PM

Shorting anything but high volume stocks is so unpredictable just avoid it. Focus on shorting smaller contracts if you have to. MY $0.02

    Edit/Delete • Quote • Complain
    Page 1 of 2:   1  2  
Post A Reply


Receive an email whenever a new post is added to this thread by subscribing to it.
 
Rate This Thread:

Forum Jump:
 

 

   Conduct Rules  -  Privacy Policy  -  Day Trader -  Day Trader Forum -  Best Trading Software -  Sitemap Copyright © 2013, Elite Trader. All rights reserved.    
 
WHILE YOU'RE HERE, TAKE A MINUTE TO VISIT SOME OF OUR SPONSORS:
Advantage Futures
Futures Brokerage & Clearing
AMP Global Clearing
Futures and FX Trading
Bright Trading
Professional Equities Trading
CTS
Futures Trading Software
DaytradingBias.com
Professional Trading Analytics
ECHOtrade
Professional Trading Firm
eSignal
Trading Software Provider
FXCM
Forex Trading Services
Global Futures
Futures, Options & FX Trading
Interactive Brokers
Pro Gateway to World Markets
JC Trading Group
Direct Access Trading
MB Trading
Direct Access Trading
MultiCharts
Trading Software Provider
NinjaTrader
Trading Software Provider
OANDA
Currency Trading
optionshouse
Option Trading & Education
Rithmic
Futures Trade Execution Platform
SpeedTrader
Direct Access Trading
SpreadProfessor
Spread Trading Instruction
thinkorswim by TD Ameritrade
Direct Access TradingAdvertisement
TradersStudio
System Building & Backtesting
Trading Technologies
Trading Software Provider
Trend Following
Trading Systems Provider