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Lucias
Registered: Nov 2010
Posts: 996 |
02-10-12 12:01 AM
Second day live.. I placed a few more small probe/test trades.
Unfortunately, the autotrading software opened a long position when I closed my short --- without telling me. I closed it for a profit but the prospect of having positioned being opened when I'm closing positions and not being aware of them is a serious risk. C2 informed me this was caused because I scale in/out of positions and was not trading at full size. This was nearly completely hidden from me. I discovered it quickly but it took me a good several minutes to close that position. C2 assured me that their software would have closed it but then I was able to manually find/close it before their software did.. doesn't inspire confidence. An error like that could devastate my account
Now I have a few options:
1. Trade direct to exchange and AFTER I'm filled then I send my orders to C2 (with any appropriate multipliers). I lose the benefit of proving that I'm trading my own system. It would require that I change my trading style.
2. Don't scale in/out of positions at C2. This would probably fix the issues. It would require that I change my trading style.
3. Shelve trading my signals for now and just focus on my simulated trades. I've found that my autotraders don't really care if I take the signals or not: they just care how much they are making.
4. Shelve the C2 completely and just focus on my real-money results. It doesn't seem wise as I should be able to maintain a top ranked C2 system which I'd hope eventually pay off.
5. Scale down my system to actual trade size. Will require changing my methods slightly still...
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I'm not sure what I will do but leaving open the possibility of this happening again is not an option. This is a disappointment and I worked with C2 management all day to try to find a solution. I did not like the responses I received as they said such behavior was "normal".
One thing I should make clear. I would be trading my signals at 10x leverage. I use a max of 4x to 5x leverage in my account and on average only about 2x leverage. Obviously, the average trader who has the capital to trade my system has more 'room' for errors then I do.
I'm also thinking about what to do because my system has returned so much that the extra capital is a problem in itself. The system is now at over 100k and I don't really need that much to trade. I can scale down the system but then I'll take a performance reduction because all trade fees will be based on the lower starting capital and previous trades will be "scaled" as a fraction. I can leave the system as is and just keep adding size but that makes it less attractive to most traders, I suspect.
Anyway, I've been rather frustrated as I haven't even been able to start the OEC software due to some bug within the program or my computer. I'll need to do some deep thought before I make a conclusion on what to do about C2.
Honestly, I am tired of working day/night without getting any return. So I do think my live trading will be a part. But my account is still small and if I can get enough subscribers at C2 then I can make more money from subscription fees then even from trading.. even if I hit my 70% to 150% return goals.
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Lucias
Registered: Nov 2010
Posts: 996 |
02-10-12 04:07 AM
Okay, I have spoken with C2 more and the only way I can scale in/out of trades is to use at least 100% size and no limits on # of contracts. This is quite disappointing because I don't see why it should be so difficult to trade a system at fractional size.
I now have basically only a few options that make sense to me:
A.
Submit my orders direct to exchange and develop an API/script that will copy what I do into my tracked account. If I do this I might as well start with a new system. I would not get any proof that I was trading my system.. although I could switch back/forth.
B.
Continue to trade my hypothetical account and focus 100% on doing my best on the hypothetical and getting more subscribers until I have enough capital to trade at least 2 contracts.
I hate to leave those contracts free that I could be capturing but if I don't have the right setup then I should probably "pass" and wait until I'm in the right position. I don't think I have "summit fever" but I have been working for a long time. I've made other people lot of money and really don't get my fair share.
So.. a lot of options including going the CTA route but that is more money spent that I need for trading.
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atticus
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 12635 |
02-10-12 04:13 AM
Quote from Lucias:
Plan For Survival
My discretionary futures system is now among the last strategies "standing" at C2 when ranked by age, equity curve, net, and risk/adjusted return--my system is unarguably one of about 4 "top" futures systems. If you look at the data, you see the truth and you don't see 100% returns per year with no risk. I wish they were out there.
I know people downplay C2 but think about.. is there any "game" you personally can join where there are thousands and thousands of competitors and make it into the top 1 or 2? Try making it into the top 1% or .5% in ANYTHING isn't a small feat. Only some of the blowhards here and we know who they are would claim otherwise. I guess I'm comparing what I've did to achieving a high score in a video game and yes I am because its really hard and 99% of us will never be 1% in anything we do.
omfg, your head is so far up your ass. Hey Sport, I had the top system for 3 years (all market orders in options). $4k to >$50k.
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Lucias
Registered: Nov 2010
Posts: 996 |
02-10-12 04:39 AM
Quote from atticus:
Hey Sport, I had the top system for 3 years (all market orders in options). $4k to >$50k.
Congratulations...
I've decided to RESCALE my system down. Giving up thousands that I made in imaginary profits and understating what I've made my subscribers by many thousands of dollars too..
It was a hard decision to make but this is business. This is not about proving I can trade for a living.
Now I am beat down... now I must recover.
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Lucias
Registered: Nov 2010
Posts: 996 |
02-10-12 05:27 AM
I don't believe the Disciplined Trader. I don't believe in that. I took my losses right off the bat.. I try to instill in my trading a degree of recklessness. I value flow and harmony.. I do not like to wait for setups. Anything that involves waiting is for me to make into a system. I want my trading to flow from point A to B.
The only part I am disciplined in is my daily risk limit. I've read Phantom of the Pits.. liked it. I don't believe that either.
Thanks for advice.. can I pull the trigger? I don't know. For me, I'm more lazy (really I have to be efficient.. this is what drives my decisions often) then scared but trepidation sure. I was going to trade my system because it was going to be convenient. When I learned C2 would let me autotrade my system and waive the autotrade fees then it seemed ideal.
However, now I learn I can't do that unless I give up scaling in/out. I would be profitable without any scaling (or go 100% which isn't possible) ... I'd still have a chance to make 100% so that's not the problem. The problem is that C2 can't guarantee that they'll do what I do. This is unacceptable.
Can i do with my live money on line? Again I don't know.. It is hard what I do. I'm at elite performance. Can I trade better then 80%? Sure.. but can I trade at my best? I suspect so.
But can I trade my real money best worrying if C2 will keep me synched, giving up "easy lay up limits"/converting to markets.. apparently not as I've decided to delayed auto-trading for time being.
One thing I should make clear.. I have a # in mind that I want to hit this year. i can't do this trading what capital I have. 2x return wouldn't do it. 3x return wouldn't do it..even 5x return would not do it.. Point is if I can't hit my goal then I shouldn't be engaged in that activity... But on the other hand, I have worked for many years to do this. The money is almost insignificant compared to the great work I've done.
So its just a business decision.. but all decisions are based on unknowns. I can make enough money from my trading to be worthwhile. I believe I can make more trading in a best case then I can from running systems in a worst case. However in a best case for both scenarios.. I should be able to make a lot more selling systems.. which will give me capital to trade.
Quote from volente_00:
Lucias, paper trading is worthless except for developing a strategy.
The real question is can you pull the f$cking trigger with your real live money at stake ?
95% can't
Read and understand both before you trade live again
http://prismintraday.com/readings/D...ined_Trader.pdf
http://www.trading-naked.com/librar...the%20_Pits.pdf
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