Registered: Jun 2007
01-12-09 09:24 PM
Quote from karol88:
Sandythebestdog, if I get it right your concern is that you can't save $500-1000 like you used to, right?
The wealth in America in the past few years was extremely inflated.
I see a very young working class couple with kids owning a 5000sf mansion here....the same couple in Germany or France for example would struggle with employment, rent a tiny apartment, and hope their parents or the government would help them when in need.
Both scenarios are extreme. Take the middle, we can't be all rich.
If I pizza delivery allows you to save $500-1000 a month (unless it's in a super location), then what about the average office worker? How much should he be able to save? 2-3 times as much? This is not normal.
take a wealthy country as an example: Switzerland (it's been wealthy for a while now...low unemployment, very high average wages etc), look at the home ownership % compared to the US....most people rent. homes are reserved for the upper middle class and up....OR older residents.
This is just an example...
Under normal economic circumstances the pizza delivery job should barely cover your daily expenses. This is a job for a student who wants to make some extra money, for a young person just starting out, or for an unskilled worker....not a job that will allow you to get rich.
You got it. I canít save like I used to.
I canít comment on people in Europe, I donít know anything about the way things are there other than they seem to have a lot higher taxes and a lot of social programs.
Youíre right, if I was able to save X $ís, then a higher level job should be able to save a lot more. I donít see why this shouldnít be the case. You have to also take into account that I donít really care about a lot of the things others do. I have a higher goal and am willing to sacrifice the time and money now to achieve it later. I still live with my parents, so that I donít have that extra burden. Many my age are realizing that is the only way they will ever have a shot at anything. Itís not uncommon now for kids to live at home into their 20ís. My sister just moved back, sheís 22. We canít afford a $1000 apartment. I have bought 3 cars. The most expensive was $5000. The car I have now has 226k miles. I hardly buy new clothes and pretty much watch every dollar I spend. So maybe that is why I used to be able to save a lot. Iím not cheap, I just see the bigger picture. My one nemisis is obviously trading, and once every 2 years I buy a nice cell phone.
I have never ever said that I should get rich deliverying pizza. That would never work. I think many here are not getting this point. What I have asked is why did such an unskilled job used to provide so much, but now is barely providing minimum wage. Nobody seems to want to answer this. I will never get rich deliverying pizza, but I can get rich taking the money I can save from pizza and investing that and starting new businesses with that. But I canít do that if Iím barely able to pay my bills and the cost of living never seems to stop going up.
What I have never figured out is why there is this notion that if you donít have a skilled job, then you pretty much deserve to make so little money that youíll inevitably live in poverty. Where does this thinking originate from? Is it a new economic theory or is it market based economics?
I went to the wisest source I could find to see what could be said about work and labor. I really donít like religion, but I figured the Bible was a good source to look to. I was unable to find any verses that said those who work hard, but at an unskilled job, deserve poverty. Instead I found this.
2 Thessalonians 3:10
For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: "If a man will not work, he shall not eat."
He who works his land will have abundant food, but he who chases fantasies lacks judgment.
All hard work brings a profit, but mere talk leads only to poverty.
Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.
I Corinthians 9:7-11
Who serves as a soldier at his own expense? Who plants a vineyard and does not eat of its grapes? Who tends a flock and does not drink of the milk? Do I say this merely from a human point of view? Doesn't the Law say the same thing? For it is written in the Law of Moses: "Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain." Is it about oxen that God is concerned? Surely he says this for us, doesn't he? Yes, this was written for us, because when the plowman plows and the thresher threshes, they ought to do so in the hope of sharing in the harvest. If we have sown spiritual seed among you, is it too much if we reap a material harvest from you?
Look! The wages you failed to pay the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty.
These seem to suggest that labor should be rewarded accordingly. I never saw a verse that said somebody should work and not be paid his worth, or that only skilled workers deserve to eat. The overriding theme seems to be an honest days work should be granted an honest days pay. Iím not a Bible expert, so feel free to disagree, I know most of you will.
So here is a list of as many jobs that I can think of that are doomed to poverty if we continue with this notion that only skilled work should be justly compensated. I know Iím going to take a lot of heat for this post, and frankly I donít care. Somebody has to say it.
Pizza delivery drivers, janitors, taxi drivers, cashiers, cooks at fast food restaurants, host and hostesses, waiters, bar tenders, receptionists, maids, lawn care people, bell boyís, school bus drivers, mailmen, postal workers, DMV workers, grocery store stocking clerks, couriers, trash collectors, prostitutes, hotel roomservice workers, newspaper delivery persons, UPS drivers, parking attendants, probably most low end government jobs and pretty much most retail jobs.