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huh
 

Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 403

 

12-17-08 06:31 PM

Alright time for another trading thread to add to the long list of threads. I've found some really good and interesting threads that I've learned a lot from. Kudos to optioncoach for the infamous SPX credit spread trader journal which I finally have completed reading the entire monstrous thing.

So I've been testing a strategy on paper since Jan as its my sad and pathetic new years resolution every year to try and come up with a trading strategy that I paper trade and eventually roll into production once I'm happy with it. For this year I paper traded a strategy (I"m not sure if this is an existing strategy with some retarded name like iron condor or butterfly). I'm just going to call the strategy "SUCK IT."

The strategy is simply to buy an in the money call or put debit spread with at least 3 weeks usually more till experation. I am only buying RUT spreads. On the same day that I buy the RUT spread I will hedge the spread purchase by selling an ITM IWM call or put. The goal is to have the long RUT spread stay in the money and gain value while the short IWM option loses premium value and HOPEFULLY by the time experation comes around, the RUT and IWM prices are close to where we started (similar to a calandar spread).

Why am I putting SUCK IT into production? On paper trading the strategy logged a nice 100% return for the year. The sept - november period did manage to generate a 17% loss for that time period however just this month alone has generated back 20% erasing the prior months losses and still ending the year at slightly over 100%. So I am happy with the paper returns and have decided to put some real skin in the game and put a portion of my aggressive portfolio towards this technique. At the risk of jinxing myself and having this thing blow up in my face.....I figured what the heck no risk no reward!

So as I said, I've finally decided to put some real money behind this thing. I'm looking at putting 30K towards SUCK IT and we'll see how it goes. Here are my current REAL positions:

bot jan 460/450 put/short jan 45 iwm put@ cost of $47
bot jan 470/460 put/short jan 46 iwm put@ cost of $52.06
bot jan 480/470 put/short jan 47 iwm put@ cost of $68.51
bot jan 500/490 put/short jan 49 iwm put@ cost of $53.82
bot jan 400/410 call/short jan 41 iwm call@ cost of $117.34
bot jan 440/450 call/short jan 45 iwm call@ cost of $208.54
bot jan 420/430 call/short jan 43 iwm call@ cost of $177.06

These positions were opened back in november and I am currently looking to establish some new ones for this month but due to pricing I may actually start purchasing positions expiring in February.

Here is an explanation of the position description above:
bot jan 460/450 put/short jan 45 iwm put@ cost of $47

"bot jan 460/450 put" this means that I am long the jan 460/450 put spread for which I had to pay.

"short jan 45 iwm put" this means that I have a short put sold at 45 for which I received premium.

"@ cost of $47" means this is my total cost of the position. So in this case the result of the cost of buying the RUT debit spread minus the premium from selling the short IWM option = $47. So in this case if RUT is above 460 by jan expiration I would incur a loss of $47 and this amount does include commission costs.

So I am now aboard the SUCK IT train and we'll see if it crashes and burns!!!!

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TraderZones
 

Registered: Mar 2008
Posts: 5093

 

12-17-08 06:50 PM


Quote from huh:

On paper trading the strategy logged a nice 100% return for the year.



Did you adjust all trades for slippage, commissions and the occasional trader error, panic or other trading problems?

On paper, people do not execute the same way, they do not use the same money management, they do not use the same cool logic, etc. etc.

I would guess a 100% paper trade results as you described, even if properly executed, should be cut by at least 50% or more

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huh
 

Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 403

 

12-17-08 06:58 PM


Quote from TraderZones:

Did you adjust all trades for slippage, commissions and the occasional trader error, panic or other trading problems?

On paper, people do not execute the same way, they do not use the same money management, they do not use the same cool logic, etc. etc.

I would guess a 100% paper trade results as you described, even if properly executed, should be cut by at least 50% or more



I didnt' do too much accounting of slippage, I figured I'd simply just use market orders to do my call entrances since they always trigger at the crappy bid prices. So I think I'm factoring in a little bit of slippage by overpaying for the debit spread and getting screwed on the selling of the hedge. Obviously now that I'm using a live account with real money I'll be hopefully getting better pricing but we'll see. No way to know how my money management skills would be in a nasty environemnt like we had the past few months unless I have some real skin in the game. I traded through the last couple months with my other positions and managed to eek out a gain so we'll see what happen with this.

I agree 100% is probably not doable in a live trading account for the reasons you mentioned above. However, I will take as low as a 30% return on this strategy for a year. If I don't generate at least 30% return in the next 12 months I will scrap this assuming the market gods haven't put me out of business by then.

So no I am not expecting anywhere near a 100% return, my expected target is around only 30%.

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huh
 

Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 403

 

12-18-08 09:21 PM

I added one more feb call position today. Here is a list of my current open positions:

bot jan 460/450 put/short jan 45 iwm put@ cost of $47
bot jan 470/460 put/short jan 46 iwm put@ cost of $52.06
bot jan 480/470 put/short jan 47 iwm put@ cost of $68.51
bot jan 500/490 put/short jan 49 iwm put@ cost of $53.82
bot jan 400/410 call/short jan 41 iwm call@ cost of $117.34
bot jan 440/450 call/short jan 45 iwm call@ cost of $208.54
bot jan 420/430 call/short jan 43 iwm call@ cost of $177.06

bot feb 450/460 call/short feb 46 iwm call@ cost of $77.06

Obviously I'm really hoping to get RUT in the 450 range by experation next month. Lot of time left so we will see how it shakes out

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huh
 

Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 403

 

12-19-08 09:31 PM

Well today we came pretty darn close to touching the 50day EMA but alas the market sold off of it. I'm not really seeing any upcoming reason for the RUT to go above 500 in the short run. I'm expecting a pullback in the short term to around 460 or 470 at least before we try closing above 500 and actually stay above 500. I went ahead and opened another feb SUCK IT position on the put side. Until the market actually breaksout of this wide consolidation range between 440-500 I'm going to assume we are going to get more sideways consolidation. I obviously I don't mind consolidation and if the market does manage to close above 500 then I will do some adjusting to my jan put positions. Here are my current open positions:

bot jan 460/450 put/short jan 45 iwm put@ cost of $47
bot jan 470/460 put/short jan 46 iwm put@ cost of $52.06
bot jan 480/470 put/short jan 47 iwm put@ cost of $68.51
bot jan 500/490 put/short jan 49 iwm put@ cost of $53.82
bot jan 400/410 call/short jan 41 iwm call@ cost of $117.34
bot jan 440/450 call/short jan 45 iwm call@ cost of $208.54
bot jan 420/430 call/short jan 43 iwm call@ cost of $177.06

bot feb 450/460 call/short feb 46 iwm call@ cost of $77.06
bot feb 520/510 put/short feb 51 iwm put@ cost of $42.06

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huh
 

Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 403

 

12-22-08 09:30 PM

Well got the short term pullback today on low volume, so can't really place much signifiance to the market. I'm sure the next week or two will be more of the same because of the holidays, which is fine with me if we keep trading in this 440-500 range. I'd be happy with Jan experation anywhere between 410 and 480 so consolidate away as far as I'm concerned. Today I went ahead and added to my feb call position:

bot jan 460/450 put/short jan 45 iwm put@ cost of $47
bot jan 470/460 put/short jan 46 iwm put@ cost of $52.06
bot jan 480/470 put/short jan 47 iwm put@ cost of $68.51
bot jan 500/490 put/short jan 49 iwm put@ cost of $53.82
bot jan 400/410 call/short jan 41 iwm call@ cost of $117.34
bot jan 440/450 call/short jan 45 iwm call@ cost of $208.54
bot jan 420/430 call/short jan 43 iwm call@ cost of $177.06

bot feb 450/460 call/short feb 46 iwm call@ cost of $77.06
bot feb 520/510 put/short feb 51 iwm put@ cost of $42.06
bot feb 450/460 call/short feb 46 iwm call@ cost of $148.06

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