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IWT2008
 

Registered: Mar 2008
Posts: 33

 

08-24-08 05:19 PM

Im am wondering how you (johnny) and Yobo set a STOP level when you put on a trade?

Yobo I understand that you add "layers" as the pair diverges even futher from its mean.

To avoid a potential blow up where is the ultimate "Uncle" point that tells you the trade has not worked?

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yobo
 

Registered: Jul 2007
Posts: 157

 

08-24-08 06:11 PM

Account blow ups only occur if your trade size is too big. Keep your trades small and give them time. Practice smart portfolio management and trade volume through many pairs.

If both sides of the pair go against you get out after you have determined that you are wrong because of a news event, fundamentals, technicals, etc. And reverse the trade/pair. If one side is working hold on and buy another layer. I don't use a set percentage figure.

My time frame per trade is also a determing factor of when to take losses. My criteria is all set around 23 day moving averages which is usually the maximum amount of time I will hold onto a trade.

The harder question to answer is when to take profits. I always try to scale out of positions since I am scaling into them. And because I use leverage it is even more important to take profits.

Always have a daily profit goal in mind and do whatever it takes to hit that.

Hope this helps.

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jonnysharp
 

Registered: May 2004
Posts: 980

 

08-25-08 12:18 AM

yobo, thanks for your input, I appreciate that, its always interesting to hear from another pair trader how they make their coin. There are so many different ways to pair trade, everyone can really customize their own style. If I were to trade pairs by divergence instead of mean reversion I would focus a lot on the fundamentals so that I'm long the strong, cheap stock and short the weak, expensive stock and I would probably use the ratio chart to ride the trend, maybe something for me to look at later this year.

IWT2008, I don't use stops, Ive used heaps of different strategies, systems and methods over the years and have not found stops to help one bit, they are a market maker's dream and a trader's nightmare, like yobo says your a/c won't be wiped out if you keep your trade size small, that's the trick of successful trading, make heaps of small trades, for me I never have more than 20% max of my a/c exposed to any stock and I use leverage so that I can have up to 15 pairs open at any given time, that's the beauty of pair trading, I would never lever my a/c that much on directional trading, also I use pairtrade finder, a program for my entry and exit signals aswell as layer my own analysis on top of those signals, I won't take them all blindly, I like to see a few other conditions upon entry, but for exit I take the signal without hesitation. I think entry is very important because you have a choice whether to buy or sell, whereas when holding a position your more inclined to exit at an given opportunity because you need to rotate your capital from old trades into new trades with better risk/reward characteristics.

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yobo
 

Registered: Jul 2007
Posts: 157

 

08-25-08 01:42 AM

Cool. I checked out pairfind trader and it looks pretty cool. Haven't downloaded yet for a free trial, But I did sign up for their email alert service. Did you buy the software or are you just testing it out?

I am going to test each one of their pairs in their daily email against my pair screener to see if we are on the same page. The instructional video makes it look like you can test verious time periods?

I watch for dispersions as well as reversions. I first started out just looking for reversions but then it became pretty obvious that pairs also disperse. In fact more money can be made on the dispersion of pairs versus just reversion so why limit oneself to just one side of the pair trade. Hence the reason why I trade both directions of pairs.

Curious to hear more of your thoughts about the software.

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jonnysharp
 

Registered: May 2004
Posts: 980

 

08-25-08 02:25 AM

Yes by looking at some charts of different pairs you can make alot of $$$ on divergence trading the pairs instead of reversion trading them, i'm definately going to have a closer look at this style, I think the holding periods would be longer though as you would want to stay with the trend.

Yeah I bought the program. The only thing I don't like about it is the portfolio management feature, its a bit lacking but I don't use it anyway. However the signals is why I bought it, Ive tried spreadsheets and all that but just found it too time consuming and messy, whereas the program automatically updates the data and gives me entry & exit signals during the day. yeah you can test those signals P&L in different time periods. works well for someone like me.

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yobo
 

Registered: Jul 2007
Posts: 157

 

08-25-08 10:12 PM

Hey Johnny Sharp,

Your trades are looking good as of today's close. Nice work. Keep it up.

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