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Thunderdog
 

Registered: Aug 2002
Posts: 10056

 

08-15-08 06:22 PM


Quote from ilikefox es:

www.timeswatch.org describes the new york times as a liberal newspaper.


NYT distinguishes facts from opinion and doesn't pretend to be something it's not. I imagine this notion is quite foreign to you, and therefore somewhat threatening.

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Pa(b)st Prime
 

Registered: Oct 2006
Posts: 5519

 

08-15-08 07:14 PM

I'd been on the fence but the NEWEST science tips me back to the no global warming side. You guys probably don't follow this stuff as much as I do-no surprise given that my home in SoFla is a half block off the ocean and my condo in Chicago is literally on the lake without even a beach separating us from the water. There's been a couple of studies released in the past month, one by Tom Knutson and the other a series of comments by hurricane guru William Gray. Knutson who had been in the global warming camp says Hurricanes aren't linked to warming waters and Gray says global warming is severely exagerated.

Empirically I've been skeptical of warming for a few reasons. 1. Chicago is having it's least warm decade in history. Secondly if polar ice caps ect were truly melting one would certainly expect shoreline erosion. I own two properties within yards of two major American shorelines and I see zilch in terms of erosion. Quite different from the 70's when Chicago was routinely flooded by high tides and homes in Michigan were tumbling into the encroaching lake.

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Thunderdog
 

Registered: Aug 2002
Posts: 10056

 

08-15-08 07:44 PM


Quote from Pa(b)st Prime:

I'd been on the fence but the NEWEST science tips me back to the no global warming side. You guys probably don't follow this stuff as much as I do-no surprise given that my home in SoFla is a half block off the ocean and my condo in Chicago is literally on the lake without even a beach separating us from the water. There's been a couple of studies released in the past month, one by Tom Knutson and the other a series of comments by hurricane guru William Gray. Knutson who had been in the global warming camp says Hurricanes aren't linked to warming waters and Gray says global warming is severely exagerated.

Empirically I've been skeptical of warming for a few reasons. 1. Chicago is having it's least warm decade in history. Secondly if polar ice caps ect were truly melting one would certainly expect shoreline erosion. I own two properties within yards of two major American shorelines and I see zilch in terms of erosion. Quite different from the 70's when Chicago was routinely flooded by high tides and homes in Michigan were tumbling into the encroaching lake.


You have residences on two shorelines? Damn.

I think your observation, while interesting, is anecdotal and hardly conclusive. As for your reference to Knutson, I don't think it's as simple as all that:

http://www.earthsky.org/radioshows/...ewer-hurricanes

And then, of course:

http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/feb...07-02-07-10.asp

As for Gray, well...

http://www.logicalscience.com/skeptics/Gray.html

http://www.realclimate.org/index.ph...04/gray-on-agw/

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Pa(b)st Prime
 

Registered: Oct 2006
Posts: 5519

 

08-15-08 08:22 PM


Quote from Thunderdog:

You have residences on two shorelines? Damn.

I think your observation, while interesting, is anecdotal and hardly conclusive. As for your reference to Knutson, I don't think it's as simple as all that:

http://www.earthsky.org/radioshows/...ewer-hurricanes

And then, of course:

http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/feb...07-02-07-10.asp

As for Gray, well...

http://www.logicalscience.com/skeptics/Gray.html

http://www.realclimate.org/index.ph...04/gray-on-agw/



Knutson's findings are important because if one proves negligible effect of a given then cause becomes legitimately in dispute. Warming theorists argue heating trends portend more frequent and more severe storms. Of course that view makes sense. Disruptive weather is warm air colliding with cooler. No one credible though sees higher incidences of “great storms”, flooding, erosion ect. Am I going to believe stories of melting glaciers to be true (tales I've been hearing for over a decade) when hard evidence from more verifiable locations shows a benign, if anything uneventful, environment? If auto emissions were actually heating up the polars would it not be logical questioning why at least the car happy, polluted San Fernando Valley isn't at least a few degrees warmer? Do carbon pollutants as they are released from an automobiles broiling hot emission system say to themselves “forget warming the city we were born in, let's boogie up the the North Poll and kill off some bears!” ?

The world trends warmer-it trends cooler. It's junk science and it makes formally unemployable meteorologists and researchers wealthy guys. For instance Gore's IPO's are worth well over $100,000,000. Great scam. Instead of focusing on the global importance of disaster preparedness we're chasing the unproven myth that suburban SUV's and Chinese factories are causing great floods and hurricanes. Whatever. It's a fad that “topped” around 18 months ago........

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Thunderdog
 

Registered: Aug 2002
Posts: 10056

 

08-15-08 08:24 PM

Pabst, I'm guessing you didn't click on the links that I attached.

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Pa(b)st Prime
 

Registered: Oct 2006
Posts: 5519

 

08-15-08 08:57 PM


Quote from Thunderdog:

Pabst, I'm guessing you didn't click on the links that I attached.



Sure I did. Knutson used to say MORE storms. Now he say's LESS storms. I don't consider increased winds of 2.2% to be more "severe."

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