Registered: Feb 2012
06-04-12 04:05 AM
Quote from SgtSlottter:
I definitely agree. But I think it is safe to assume they up the shares quickly on people showing promise.
I'm putting two and two together here, but logically, they don't want a guy hanging around trading 5 shares either. (Profits to split will be negligible on 5 shares, and they aren't planning to make money of per share commissions on 5 shares, so it wouldn't make sense to have a model that worked that way for any extended period of time).
And I asked Maverick, but the same question for you, is don't these guys have some real deal risk taking traders? Are you pretty certain or just assuming that due to this seemingly weird new guy deal? If it is just a guess, the OP if he gets an offer should ask the questions and/or ask the firm to let him sit there for a morning and make sure what really goes on there with the real traders.
in my experience, I never got the impression tower hill was afraid to take financial risk, but they probably don't feel like wasting too much money on new guys while they learn. you have to factor in training, infrastructure, tech support and the other tools which cost money no matter what (starting with market data and other costs).
Agreed agree with you on the contract but haven't seen it, and that he shouldn't jump on the first thing he sees. But as far as trading equities for no cap down and no training fees, there aren't many choices.
Even the firms you name don't do it, at least for new guys. It is indisputable at this point that First New York seems to be falling apart. Not just the post from the blog the guy referenced, but the CEO was ousted (see the WSJ article), and partners and their capital, as well as the traders who werent already fired or quit are continuing to leave daily. Schoenfeld isn't hiring and publicly stated he's shedding traders, and Schottenfeld is a small firm (about 40 traders from what I know - I could be wrong) who definitely does not take new guys or have a training program. For experienced guys, you really need an excellent track record to get in there.
My gut says the 5 share thing is just to limit wasting the firm's money while analyzing who has potential, and that it isn't a capital thing nor nefarious in any way. The contract issue could be however, depending on the wording.
From what my buddy said, they had some guys claiming they made good money trading (500k gross or so) who were suppose to be the ones training. So they very well could have guys who do take some decent risk. Just odd that they claim to have guys making a 500k or so, but then starting new guys at tiny levels. Maybe the proven guys are trading their own cash...who knows. But at the end of the day all that matters is this insanely bad deal they have for new traders.
Your point about the other firms is correct...they aren't bringing on new traders with no experience. The only guys they take on have very good experience and start out trading decent size books. But...when they were bringing on new guys (which wasn't that long ago) they never started guys at such crazy small levels. Also none of them have or had any crazy non-compete contracts which wanted money from the trader if they left.
I agree there aren't many places anymore for new guys to go (the place Mav posted looked pretty good considering what's out there for new guys). If I was a new guy in these times , besides looking for these firms I would also be contacting every trading firm/hedge funds out there seeing if any of there guys need a trading assistant. Ya never know...I had a buddy who called every firm he could find asking if any of there traders needed an assistant, and while most said no , after a few weeks he actually found one that wasn't advertising looking for one...but had interest. He met the trader and the guy hired him. You have to think outside the box sometimes....