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luh3417
 

Registered: Oct 2005
Posts: 110

 

08-04-12 02:26 AM

http://www.interactivebrokers.com/e...bleProducts.php lists for example

IDEM exchange trades FTMIB MFIB MINI MIB30 (Italy)
MEFF exchange trades IBX IBEX35 index (Spain)
MONEP exchange trades FCE (CAC 40) (France)

I may end up trading the index future, not the options. Still a bit of leverage there. I don't see much upside (though, a couple of these were up 6% yesterday...) and I may as well "get paid" for taking that view.

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cdcaveman
 

Registered: Aug 2011
Posts: 3529

 

08-04-12 02:30 AM

How do you figure futures are better the options?

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luh3417
 

Registered: Oct 2005
Posts: 110

 

08-04-12 03:07 AM


Quote from cdcaveman:

How do you figure futures are better the options?



IMHO my goal is to get a position that exactly reflects my speculation on the market or prediction of future events. And, no more, as well as no less.

IMHO the downside to options is they expire. And, IMHO, the market is in denial (not wrong, its never wrong, just in denial) and will resist "marking to market" that Europe is bust. So it may take longer for events to force peoples hands than I would predict.

Compare the simple payback graph of say, buying a put, as opposed to shorting the future. With the put I have insurance against the index rising. But in my view of the future, I don't need this insurance, and I don't want to in effect "pay for it" by using the put option strategy.

Now certainly, there are more complex multi-leg options positions possible. Some of them may even pay their way. Or offer me longer odds and more bang for the buck. But these will have more transaction cost and spread than a simple futures position.

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pbb
 

Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 64

 

08-04-12 06:12 AM

Maybe you should buy some calls.

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cdcaveman
 

Registered: Aug 2011
Posts: 3529

 

08-04-12 07:31 AM

just realize everything has a cost of carry... and doing ratio backspreads in the options on futures is a good bet.. or just buy super way otm wings... There is a cost to any leverage.. and wing way otm options are never priced out.. tons of noise way out on the wings.. just think about this example..
say you have 10,000 to invest in futures.. instead you buy way otm put options for .05 to .50 cents a contract and when they expire worthless you go out to the next set of futures and buy more otm puts.. this sounds crazy but the amount of leverage you get is insane.. If your super super super confident in your predictions this will give you the very biggest bang for your buck.. futures can go down alot and you don't make near the amount of money and they can swing violently around and through a margin call throw you out of the trade. .. with a small continual investment in otm puts you could say buy 300 to 400 dollars worth of .05 to .50 cent otm puts that could turn that amount of money

300 bucks .05 cents = 5 dollars each contract.. 60 contracts..
say we have a tail event.. and they go into the money 10 to 30 dollars..
20 dollars per option x 60 contracts = 120,000

you can do the math with .50 cent options
50 bucks per contract.. 6 contracts..
10 itm x 6 contracts = 6000

figure out a time frame.. . say 6 months or 2 years .. divide your captial up and start to bleed.. buying penny options can turn you into a millionaire if done right.. especially in a tail event..

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