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bologeorge
 

Registered: Oct 2012
Posts: 28

 

10-23-12 02:27 PM


Quote from drm7:

There's a paper out there (I'll see if I can find it somewhere) that evaluates a VIX futures roll-down strategy by shorting the VIX futures AND ALSO shorting an E-Mini S&P contact (ES). Since Vix generally spikes when ES drops, you get a dirty hedge.



But doing that means you have unlimited risk on both sides. If the spx rise rapidly you will be hurt seriously.

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jtrader33
 

Registered: Jun 2005
Posts: 285

 

10-23-12 04:07 PM


Quote from filthy:

The paper you refer to might be this one.
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers....ract_id=2094510

I've just written an article for Active Trader magazine which looks at the trade. I use an even dirtier hedge of 500 SPY per VIX future.



Enjoyed your books - good to see you over here. When do you expect the article to be published?

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kapw7
 

Registered: Mar 2012
Posts: 113

 

10-23-12 04:27 PM


Quote from filthy:

The paper you refer to might be this one.
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers....ract_id=2094510

I've just written an article for Active Trader magazine which looks at the trade. I use an even dirtier hedge of 500 SPY per VIX future.



I've seen the paper - looking forward to your article too. Do you think it still works for VIX?

I am currently trying to test the idea on VSTOXX. Well, if I get enough historical data first

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filthy
 

Registered: Oct 2012
Posts: 12

 

10-23-12 09:22 PM

bs2167,

i'm glad you liked the books. A new edition of "Volatility Trading" is coming out in April. It will have about 100 pages of new stuff.

I think the article will be out in the December issue but I'm really not sure. I know they have a very fast turn around time.

I'm fairly sure that the VIX trade will continue to work. I think generally there are two fundamental types of trades. Sometimes these are loosely called "alpha" and "beta" (very loosely). The first is an active trade that has to be worked at. It is the kind of thing that a trader makes rather than finds. An example would be a pit trader with unusual execution skill or a computer trader who has figured out how to game VWAP. The second type of trade is basically collecting a risk premium. These trades are easy to find. EG the low vol stock anomaly, the carry trade, the variance premium. These tend to exist for deep psychological reasons (this is a conjecture of mine. i don't think there is a concensus about why these exist). The trick here is to really understand what drives the premium, what the dangers are and when to avoid the trade. They are knowledge based, risk management trades. I think this VIX trade is one of these.

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bologeorge
 

Registered: Oct 2012
Posts: 28

 

10-24-12 02:07 PM


Quote from filthy:

bs2167,

i'm glad you liked the books. A new edition of "Volatility Trading" is coming out in April. It will have about 100 pages of new stuff.

I think the article will be out in the December issue but I'm really not sure. I know they have a very fast turn around time.

I'm fairly sure that the VIX trade will continue to work. I think generally there are two fundamental types of trades. Sometimes these are loosely called "alpha" and "beta" (very loosely). The first is an active trade that has to be worked at. It is the kind of thing that a trader makes rather than finds. An example would be a pit trader with unusual execution skill or a computer trader who has figured out how to game VWAP. The second type of trade is basically collecting a risk premium. These trades are easy to find. EG the low vol stock anomaly, the carry trade, the variance premium. These tend to exist for deep psychological reasons (this is a conjecture of mine. i don't think there is a concensus about why these exist). The trick here is to really understand what drives the premium, what the dangers are and when to avoid the trade. They are knowledge based, risk management trades. I think this VIX trade is one of these.



Yes. This categorization of trading is very clear and insightful.
Since most of us can't trade like market makers, perhaps the only way to profit is to untilize the risk premium. Behavioral finance has lots of theories on this.
I think the premium of vix futures is simply because of the favorite/longshot bias, just like you see in horse racing. There are so many people who want to make profit from the vix spikes, as a result they push the futures' price so high. And when it does jump to a high level, those investors can't wait to cash in the profit. As a result when the vix is high, the futures' price is in deep discount. This is the exactly the bias in horse racing that good hosrse are under bet and poor horses are overbet.

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