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hft_boy

Registered: Apr 2012
Posts: 177

09-05-12 03:39 AM

Quote from axolotls:

In theory shorting every 2x and 3x ETF would be amazing.

Not really. Turns out that shorting the bull and bear 3x ETF (done properly) returns about 7-8% annually. Although I haven't done this specifically for SPY 3x ETFs.

Point is, you're paying for the leverage either way.

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losemind

Registered: Dec 2010
Posts: 75

09-06-12 04:21 PM

Quote from hft_boy:

Not really. Turns out that shorting the bull and bear 3x ETF (done properly) returns about 7-8% annually. Although I haven't done this specifically for SPY 3x ETFs.

Point is, you're paying for the leverage either way.

Is it easy to borrow and short those etfs?

What are the fees?

Thank you!

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hft_boy

Registered: Apr 2012
Posts: 177

09-06-12 04:43 PM

Quote from losemind:

Is it easy to borrow and short those etfs?

What are the fees?

Thank you!

Sorry -- I didn't mean that I've actually done this. I've only done the simulation (so no fees). I don't know about the short selling fees, but I assumed that they would be more than the expected profit, so that's why I didn't do it.

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axolotls

Registered: Sep 2012
Posts: 16

09-07-12 04:31 AM

Quote from losemind:

Is it easy to borrow and short those etfs?

What are the fees?

Thank you!

Difficult. Hence, my semi-sarcastic post. You'll have better luck going the options route.

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jb514

Registered: Apr 2011
Posts: 134

09-07-12 06:08 PM

Quote from losemind:

Is it easy to borrow and short those etfs?

What are the fees?

Thank you!

A couple of months ago, I saw it costs about a dollar per share to borrow TNA for the day

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RenkoTrades

Registered: Apr 2012
Posts: 190

09-07-12 07:02 PM

Quote from losemind:

Bull etf or Bear etf, which one to use?

Hi all,

If I want to express a bullish view on SP500, I have two theoretically equivalent options (I am thinking of 2x or 3x):

1. Long the bull 3x etf
2. Short the bear 3x etf

The holding period is probably 3 months, 6 months and 12 months.

Which one shall I hold, the bull or the bear?

Thank you!

As of today about an hour ago I am in 200% inverse of Russell 2000 and S&P500 longer term positions. Euro I am selling above 1.2795 but that I am doing with futures trades. I only trade ETF's for 3 to 7 day directional trades.

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