Your Account  •  Become a Member  •  Help  •  Search    
    Forums ›› Trading for a Living ›› Psychology ›› "Courage and the mastery of fear" (sport article)  


Post A Reply
    Page 1 of 2:   1  2  
harrytrader
 

Registered: Aug 2002
Posts: 5659

 

10-18-03 07:49 PM

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2...6683947563.html

Ron Barassi might well have been the most courageous player in the history of Australian football, and he answers the question with a quote from his original coach and mentor at Melbourne, 50 years ago.

"Norm Smith used to say that courage is the mastery of fear and it's right," said Barassi this week.


"If you're not scared, you don't need courage. You are conquering a fear. I think these people who say they don't have fear in the first place are probably idiots. The ones I admire are the ones who are conquering the fear."

Barassi insists that courage is a relative concept. He also disagrees with the old-timers' feeling that players are not as courageous as they used to be.

"The proportion of players with courage is higher than ever," he said. "The bar's been raised."

Barassi says a little fear is not such a bad thing, a point he established over lunch many years ago with Sir Edmund Hillary, conqueror of Everest 50 years ago.

"I asked him about fear and he said: 'Ron. There's no way I would go up there with a guy who's not scared. If he's scared, I know he'll be careful about it and not stupid with his risk-taking'."

    Edit/Delete Quote Complain
harrytrader
 

Registered: Aug 2002
Posts: 5659

 

10-18-03 07:53 PM

I agree as I said:

"Fear is only artefact of uncertainty. Anyone who won't fear uncertainty would be just foolish: nature has "invented" fear to protect us don't forget. "

(http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...fear#post344880)


Quote from harrytrader:

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2...6683947563.html

Barassi says a little fear is not such a bad thing, a point he established over lunch many years ago with Sir Edmund Hillary, conqueror of Everest 50 years ago.

"I asked him about fear and he said: 'Ron. There's no way I would go up there with a guy who's not scared. If he's scared, I know he'll be careful about it and not stupid with his risk-taking'."


    Edit/Delete Quote Complain
nkhoi
Moderator

Registered: Aug 1999
Posts: 7802

 

10-18-03 08:12 PM

If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a
hundred battles.
If you know yourself but not the enemy,
for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat.
If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.

    Edit/Delete Quote Complain
hypostomus
 

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2607

 

10-18-03 08:50 PM

..I post this with all due respect, as you so very often bring to this forum (circus?) an unsuspectedly relevant rubric (cherchez-le dedans votre dictionnaire anglais-francais!). Also, I know it gives you great pleasure to discourse with fools.

I wish to make a case for cowardice in trading. Cowardice is a much maligned virtue. Evolutionarily, it obviously offers a selective edge, as those who fly rather than fight can always service the females of the species while the alpha male isn't looking. I attribute my thus far long life totally to cowardice. It has much to commend it. The vilest (and most pleasurable and profitable) deeds often are perpetrated by the most cowardly persons, but of course only at little risk to themselves.

Which brings me to my point: cowardly trading is a style much to be desired. I suffer from extreme free-floating anxiety. The least little market wiggle makes me sweat and shake. I do not want to be brave and overcome my timidity, I want to make money without any fear. The solution is to trade mechanically with statistically based rules rigorously backtested and optimized. I find that I can eliminate the need for bravery under the conditions of a 50+% win rate, a 1.6:1 average win to average loss, and a drawdown of 5X the average loss. Such a conservative system design doesn't make much money, but it doesn't require nerves of steel to follow, either.

Then all I have to do is screw up what little courage I have to anonymously and with impunity insult the experienced posters here.

    Edit/Delete Quote Complain
nkhoi
Moderator

Registered: Aug 1999
Posts: 7802

 

10-19-03 06:28 AM


Quote from hypostomus:

.. "Those who know do not speak. Those who speak do not know." (attrib. Lao-Tzu). "Those who trade do not post. Those who post do not trade." (Hypostomus Plecostomus).



I will no speak no more.

    Edit/Delete Quote Complain
harrytrader
 

Registered: Aug 2002
Posts: 5659

 

10-19-03 08:41 AM

You illustrate well. But as said Mark Twain "courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear, not absence of fear." That's why it is truly courage sporting or trading rather than cowardise sporting or trading we are talking about. The coward will lie to himself (again see trading in the mirror thread) by telling himself "I have no fear. fear will pass through me" - especially if he has watched Dune - instead of pausing and confronting himself and ask: what are the reasons for this fear and above all what concrete action for that. Now from theory to practice there is a gap: it will not be done by magic. So you must act and for that you need concrete tools and methodology - like PDCA wheel and statistical from Shewart-Deming which only require basic statistical skills and above all understanding of the spirit of continious progress instead of big jump - and not only psy mantras (although they can be useful they are not enough - except if you have super spy power that I ignore ).


Quote from hypostomus:

..I post this with all due respect, as you so very often bring to this forum (circus?) an unsuspectedly relevant rubric (cherchez-le dedans votre dictionnaire anglais-francais!). Also, I know it gives you great pleasure to discourse with fools.

I wish to make a case for cowardice in trading. Cowardice is a much maligned virtue. Evolutionarily, it obviously offers a selective edge, as those who fly rather than fight can always service the females of the species while the alpha male isn't looking. I attribute my thus far long life totally to cowardice. It has much to commend it. The vilest (and most pleasurable and profitable) deeds often are perpetrated by the most cowardly persons, but of course only at little risk to themselves.

Which brings me to my point: cowardly trading is a style much to be desired. I suffer from extreme free-floating anxiety. The least little market wiggle makes me sweat and shake. I do not want to be brave and overcome my timidity, I want to make money without any fear. The solution is to trade mechanically with statistically based rules rigorously backtested and optimized. I find that I can eliminate the need for bravery under the conditions of a 50+% win rate, a 1.6:1 average win to average loss, and a drawdown of 5X the average loss. Such a conservative system design doesn't make much money, but it doesn't require nerves of steel to follow, either.

Then all I have to do is screw up what little courage I have to anonymously and with impunity insult the experienced posters here.

    Edit/Delete Quote Complain
    Page 1 of 2:   1  2  
Post A Reply


Receive an email whenever a new post is added to this thread by subscribing to it.
Rate This Thread:

Forum Jump:
 

 

   Conduct Rules    Privacy Policy Copyright © 2009, Elite Trader. All rights reserved.    
 
WHILE YOU'RE HERE, TAKE A MINUTE TO VISIT SOME OF OUR SPONSORS:
Alpari (US)
US Forex Trading Services
AMP Trading
Futures and FX Trading
Bright Trading
Professional Equities Trading
Cyborg Trading
Gray-Box Trading Tools
CTS
Futures Trading Software
ECHOtrade
Professional Trading Firm
Equity Trading Capital
Equity & Option Training
eSignal
Trading Software Provider
Global Futures
Futures, Options & FX Trading
Go Futures
Online Futures Trading
Interactive Brokers
Pro Gateway to World Markets
Interbank FX
Foreign Currency Trading
JC Trading Group
Direct Access Trading
Keystone Trading Group
Prop Trading Firm
MadScan
Trading Software Provider
MB Trading
Direct Access Trading
Mirus Futures
Commodity Trading Services
NinjaTrader
Trading Software Provider
OneChicago
Electronic Futures Exchange
Questrade
Brokerage for Canadian Traders
Rithmic
Futures Trade Execution Platform
SpeedTrader
Direct Access Trading
SpreadProfessor
Spread Trading Instruction
thinkorswim
Direct Access Trading
TickQuest
Trading Software Provider
TradeMaven
Software and Education
TradersStudio
Trading Software Provider
TradeStation
Direct Access Trading
Trading Technologies
Trading Software Provider
Trend Following
Trading Systems Provider
Velocity Futures
Derivatives Trading Services
Zumo
Futures and Options Trading