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dandxg
Registered: Oct 2005
Posts: 4271 |
07-22-12 08:59 PM
Quote from Random.Capital:
trade2live makes an interesting point - if that rifle of his had been full auto, he would most likely have killed fewer people, as those weapons are harder to control and go through ammunition much faster than semi-autos.
Where I would differ is that modern western society is getting increasingly non-violent - things were worse 50 years ago, not better - and much much worse 100 or 500 or 5000 years ago. If anything, I'm wondering if the problem is we aren't violent enough - or more perhaps more usefullly put, perhaps we aren't doing a good enough job of finding suitable outlets for our inherent need for violence.
That could be true. We live in instant media we know about stuff that happens in all over the world, that we would have never heard about in the 50's at all, IMO. I do think the US is plenty violent though.
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sheda
Registered: Apr 2011
Posts: 619 |
07-22-12 09:48 PM
It has always confused me when I hear a person state an unarmed nation is a nation of sheep, the idea is to eradicate the firearms from the bad guys, not the good. There are millions of firearms in the UK, I have owned several my self yet I have never had one pointed at me or witnessed one used in anyway that was not safety conscious.
A shotgun is fairly easy to get, a rifle takes good reasoning and even then for most there is a graduation process of sorts, starting with a .22 and having the land you intend to use it on inspected for suitability, once you have shown with time you can handle your firearms affairs responsibly you are able to get larger calibres granted to you.
Every firearm you own is on a ticket and by use basis, if you break the law in anyway or show signs of unsound mind/character they are taken from you. That is not to say a person with a criminal history may never own and use one, its taken on a case by case basis, I know several people with criminal records dating back who do own and shoot, they are allowed to do so because they have sorted them selves out and proven that's the case.
For the Most part its an environment in which one will never see a firearm or have to use one in self defence, gun against gun. The shootings sprees that have taken place here, an armed populous would have been of little help, unless one expects primary school teachers to be armed or draws there gun behind there back every time a car stops and a man calls you to the window for directions with the intention of shooting you in the face.
The thing is the fatality's numbers of shooting sprees in America and the UK are often very similar which is to be expected. Just because you have a gun and have used it at the range does not mean you will have what it takes to respond when a life or death situation appears literally out of no where when you least expect it...
If the UK had the "right" to be armed the only result would be that gun related crime and deaths increase massively, the problem with Rights is that they are universal, applying equally to every one, if the person who wants to kill me and steal my wallet has as much right to carry a firearm as me and one of the reasons that right exists is to protect my self from them in the first place, something is very amiss..
Good nations and sound community's aren't just built on rights, there built on responsibility and some things are so vital you should have to prove your responsible before you have the right to engage in.
Its never going to be a water tight system yet right now there are community's out there in which you will have a gun pulled on you for speaking your mind, I am not American but even I can not believe "the second amendment" is used in defence of this scum.
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trade2live
Registered: Jan 2009
Posts: 314 |
07-22-12 10:15 PM
Quote from Random.Capital:
trade2live makes an interesting point - if that rifle of his had been full auto, he would most likely have killed fewer people, as those weapons are harder to control and go through ammunition much faster than semi-autos.
Where I would differ is that modern western society is getting increasingly non-violent - things were worse 50 years ago, not better - and much much worse 100 or 500 or 5000 years ago. If anything, I'm wondering if the problem is we aren't violent enough - or more perhaps more usefullly put, perhaps we aren't doing a good enough job of finding suitable outlets for our inherent need for violence.
The violence is still there, underlying. People getting fired, not getting jobs, being marginalized etc..
as for outlets , I lived in the US for a few years, and I think this is part of the problem. The US is a much more polite society than in Europe -because of guns- and that's good, for ex. I was told to never give the bird to someone on the road as that person could shoot a gun at me.
Well in Europe, giving the bird to some ahole on the road comes almost natural to a lot of people.
But the other side of the coin is that people in the US are conditioned to not express anger , raise their voice , or shout at people when they feel upset . I noticed people keep everything for themselves until they can't any longer .
A lot of things in interactions between people remain untold, and also there is a lot of fakeness in social contacts. There is also that social pressure to conform to a mold .
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dandxg
Registered: Oct 2005
Posts: 4271 |
07-22-12 11:08 PM
There was an interesting episode on Dateline maybe 20/20, I believe, about a year ago, I will post if I can find it. Basically they told the students there would be a simulated attacker attacking that day with rubber bullets and notified them a couple of days in advance. The CCW crowd, whom I am not bashing, all thought NP. Guess what.......not one of them got a hit on the guy and almost no one got a shot off. The ones whom ran fared better. Some of the CCW ppl. got their guns hung up in the "freeze" and I believe one almost shot an innocent person.
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zdreg
Registered: Oct 2003
Posts: 8326 |
07-22-12 11:39 PM
Quote from oldtime:
well, I didn't want to say anything, but since you brought it up, it does seem that compared to Americans, the English are really very rude.
not only are they rude but they no longer have the stiff upper lip that helped the british prevent the nazis from overrunning europe.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/20/s...than-usual.html
that is what socialism does to a country. it saps the spirit of the country. the US is on the same path.
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