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DeeDeeTwo
Registered: Dec 2007
Posts: 623 |
06-26-12 04:24 PM
Ninjatrader can't even do basic Pairs Spreading...
Only an idiot scalps a single instrument...
As opposed to baskets consisting of 50 or 100 positions.
The IB Spread Trader is a complete joke for stocks...
And probably for everything else.
http://www.ninjatrader.com/support/...ead.php?t=36101
That's why any serious shop builds Custom Systems...
A platform with API, C#, Excel, SQL database...
A few 1000 hours of skilled programing and 5 years trading experience...
And you are ready to run a trading business...
As opposed to being a subsistence gambler in mom's basement.
Then you have precisely ZERO limitations...
And the entire Mook Fleecing industry hawking charts, ticks, ez-shit-on-toast...
Can go and fuck itself.
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Epic
Registered: Apr 2011
Posts: 932 |
06-27-12 12:07 AM
Quote from DeeDeeTwo:
Ninjatrader can't even do basic Pairs Spreading...
Only an idiot scalps a single instrument...
As opposed to baskets consisting of 50 or 100 positions.
The IB Spread Trader is a complete joke for stocks...
And probably for everything else.
http://www.ninjatrader.com/support/...ead.php?t=36101
That's why any serious shop builds Custom Systems...
A platform with API, C#, Excel, SQL database...
A few 1000 hours of skilled programing and 5 years trading experience...
And you are ready to run a trading business...
As opposed to being a subsistence gambler in mom's basement.
Then you have precisely ZERO limitations...
+1
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gmst
Registered: Jul 2011
Posts: 3684 |
07-21-12 09:15 PM
Quote from Epic:
I realize this is a slightly old thread, but this topic has affected my operation a lot lately and rather than start a new thread I thought I would share my experiences and opinions on this one.
It seemed like just the point that the most correct answer started coming out of this thread, everyone stopped posting. Tenthousandmen and Equalizer just started to touch on it, and I was waiting for more discussion and then it stopped.
I tried for a long time to discover an off-the-shelf analysis/automation program that would both do the numerical/stat analysis and then allow me to develop trading signals and automated triggers based on the results. In the end, there was no such program, even for $$$$. The retail programs really just provided tools to backtest the same types of strats that everyone loses money with. Like Tenthousandmen suggested, these programs are incapable of developing an automated system better than discretionary.
In the end, I discovered the real solution is something like the following.
- SQL server (or cheap/free variant) for flat form data storage/retrieval
- MatLab if numerical in nature, or R/S-Plus if more stats based, for data processing, analysis, and presentation.
- Proprietary app for indicators/alerts/triggers, in my case C# based but can be C++ or Java too.
- X-Trader, T4, or Ninja for direct access automated trade execution. I prefer X-Trader (or T4 for less expense), but I'm not as familiar with Ninja.
Basically, no retail software is going to have a packaged analysis platform that will provide an edge in trading. Every Joe out there is running MAs, bands, channels, S&R, Stochs, with these retail apps. There is no edge there. If you want an edge you must be more creative and determined than that, and this means using tools without built in boundaries. Any app offering built-in scanners and analysis packs is imposing the exact boundaries that you must avoid.
Good post and apparently I agree with everything you said 
IMO, multicharts is a good platform to start basic strategy work. Other good starter level tool is excel. Tradingblox is another good platform. Once you start to push the boundaries of these platforms, you graduate to Matlab. IMO, Bloomberg is a very good tool for real time data + news feed + analytics. But Bloomberg is not really suitable for strategy development. Does anyone want to contest this point ??!!
The above approach as Epic has mentioned is not feasible for every retail trader. Some retail traders will want to move to next level after Multicharts for strategy development purposes - without getting their custom software + database + order execution built up. For example, they might just want a better backtesting platform than Multicharts. Currently, apparent limitations of MC are:
1) No pairs trading, no baskets, no spreading capabilities
2) No vol specific analysis, vol trading capabilities
3) No order fill, no market making capabilities.
So, as a trader evolves, he needs a tool that will serve this purpose. So, my question is following:
Consider a successful retail trader (call him Mr. X) developing systems in Multicharts and trading them.
1) What is his next step? More professional software like RTS or ORC or some other software?
2) How much difference (qualitative, quantitative) would it make to the strategy development process for a retail trader if he does decide to spend 10k or more to get a professional development software license?
3) What are the other options similar to RTS/ORC out there?
Let us answer above just from the point of backtesting capabilities. We will assume if some strategy proves profitable in backtesting, Mr. X can get done custom programming for automatic order handling.
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SamGold
Registered: May 2012
Posts: 2 |
07-27-12 05:55 PM
Quote from gmst:
bump...
I want the above post answered please.
If you have a profitable strategy that works in any platform or language, there are a few proprietary lines of code, maybe one page, maybe 100 pages.
All the rest can be outsourced safely, fast connection, order management, etc, etc. fast execution, etc, etc, etc. Others have done it already for you and it's basically open source for all platforms, brokers, etc. Use anything you want, hire a programmer to put it all together, but keep your 1 page secret. When it comes time to add your secret page to the code, ask the programmer to teach you to code your page yourself and how to so that you can do a basic copy and paste without the programmer being present. Then pay and fire the programmer.
C++, C#, assembler, VBA, all good...
Now if you want to learn some fancy new language like R or python in the hopes that you'll find a datamining edge jerking off with the data, you are wasting your time.
Develop in excel/VBA and then when you have something worthy of execution, translate to C# or assembler or whatever.
Everything else that you read is bullshit by wannabe-quant-trader employees. Use what you already know or if you know nothing about programming use EXCEL-VBA to research, or easylanguage, or MC or whatever.
99% of your final code has been already developed for you or can be at minimal cost... Now the 1 % secret page...don't show it to anyone. All the value is there.
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amazingIndustry
Registered: Aug 2009
Posts: 570 |
08-01-12 08:56 AM
back to what business to be precise? Snobbish and horribly delayed responses (sometimes for months) on your message forums?
Aside that could you please point out how your "back to business" product is different than what you had before (talking about the retail product). Anything new?
Quote from OpenQuant:
Exactly! We are back to business...
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