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zdreg
 

Registered: Oct 2003
Posts: 8342

 

07-07-12 02:06 AM


Quote from oldtime:

there really isn't enough money in bonds right now to be both long and short. If you take the small amount of interest you are receiving and then use that to hedge aganst your very own long position, you will end up losing the little you are making.

Keep in mind, if rates go up, yes, you will take a hit on principle, but as those bonds in the fund mature, they will then be reinvested in the new bonds with higher rates.

otherwise,as previously stated, the only way to do it is to buy the bonds outright and hold them to maturity. Typically you would ladder them so every year some mature. But that is all the etf is doing anyway so it comes out about the same.

But you and me both, and a lot of others have been doing pretty well in bonds over the last decade, but the days of capital appreciation are over. If you are living off the income there is in my opinion no need for a hedge or a change. But if it is money in the safe, the best idea I can think of is to lighten up a bit.

But where to go? That is the question. There's no such thing as cash anymore, so you gotta go somewhere.




"But you and me both, and a lot of others have been doing pretty well in bonds over the last decade, but the days of capital appreciation are over. If you are living off the income there is in my opinion no need for a hedge or a change. But if it is money in the safe, the best idea I can think of is to lighten up a bit" .

reasoning is not correct. .
return is based on current price not the historical price you paid.

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oldtime
 

Registered: Jun 2011
Posts: 7372

 

07-07-12 02:15 AM


Quote from zdreg:

"But you and me both, and a lot of others have been doing pretty well in bonds over the last decade, but the days of capital appreciation are over. If you are living off the income there is in my opinion no need for a hedge or a change. But if it is money in the safe, the best idea I can think of is to lighten up a bit" .

reasoning is not correct. .
return is based on current price not the historical price you paid.

whatever, rates have been going down for a long time, we'll just have to see how much lower they go once they hit zero.

if you bought a bond fund when rates were high, your return is based on the historical price, that is, your average price, which today seems very low. But yes I will agree, even though I got in early, today I am getting the same return as everybody else.

whew!

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diaoptions
 

Registered: Aug 2011
Posts: 392

 

07-07-12 02:16 AM

Question: How to hedge against increase of interest rate?
Answer: Borrow money.

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oldtime
 

Registered: Jun 2011
Posts: 7372

 

07-07-12 02:28 AM


Quote from diaoptions:

Question: How to hedge against increase of interest rate?
Answer: Borrow money.


yes, start looking at your local bank for low rate bond fund depletion loans.

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Nym
 

Registered: May 2012
Posts: 117

 

07-07-12 09:01 AM


Quote from diaoptions:

Question: How to hedge against increase of interest rate?
Answer: Borrow money.




ehm... not really if you borrow a fix interest rate it will be high for the current market time. If you are doing the opposite you are actually increasing the risk that you want to hedge

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ForAPlus
 

Registered: Jul 2012
Posts: 24

 

07-09-12 01:40 PM

No, he's right; Shorting a treasury bond is equivalent to borrowing at the treasury's yield; The fact that you shouldn't be able to borrow at the gov't risk premium is accounted for by the haircut on the bond and the repo rate.


Quote from Nym:

ehm... not really if you borrow a fix interest rate it will be high for the current market time. If you are doing the opposite you are actually increasing the risk that you want to hedge

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