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Old May 8th, 2012, 02:29 AM   #31
atticus
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 12,867
Quote:
Quote from amazingIndustry:

great logic. And I end my participation in this pointless exchange for now.
So Pinocchio, the answer is no?
 
Old May 8th, 2012, 02:31 AM   #32
atticus
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 12,867
Quote:
Quote from amazingIndustry:

lol, you really are a little thick...or...drunk. I never had a "stance" nor changed a "stance". How else can I see your message and reply to it other than taking you off ignore. I thought that was apparent to you since you read my first reply to your post. LOL. Enough said.
Perhaps you had a Jungian moment and dreamed that I was on ignore. What on Earth would precipitate taking me OFF your ignore list? Hmmmm? True love or simply infatuation, perhaps?

Sounds like rational behavior to you? Your assertion that I was ever on your ignore list is pathetic.
 
Old May 9th, 2012, 01:41 AM   #33
Alpari UK
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: London
Posts: 16
Quote:
Quote from amazingIndustry:

fuxx you, I can only say to this!!! You guys are the reason I try to keep unassuming newbies informed. Not a single sentence in which you do not make incorrect assumptions, outright lies, and misleading statements.

a) Requotes have not been around since bucket shop fx brokers (like yours) started paddling their wares at 500:1 leverage and minimum 1 USD trade size and other nice "features" to pull money out of beginners' pockets faster than the speed of light. There were no re-quotes in other asset classes, it all started when fx hit high street.

b) There are NO requotes when trading with ECNs. Interactive Brokers (I trade with them for over 15 years now) does not requote, you see a price on the screen and that is what you pay. In fast moving market right when news hit there may be slippage which is unavoidable but generally you even have price improvement over the stated bid and ask. So don't make up stories how market participants have to accept your grey zone schemes!!!

c) Your quote: "The only current alternatives are DMA Pro accounts in which orders are sent on a Fill or Kill basis where although you can avoid requotes, the risk is not getting a trade in (or out) at your preferred price at all."

AGAIN, a BLATANT lie: You dont need any PRO account (what is that anyway, the translation of Russion VIP???) to get straight pass through, I mentioned IB, there is MB Trading, there are a number other brokers that offer STP, and then you can trade directly through Hotspot, Currenex or other ECNs given you satisfy their account opening requirements.

People like you make me puke because you disseminate misleading statements and lies and pretend everyone is as shady as you!!! Shame on you!!!
Thank you for your reasoned and rationalised argument. It is however absolutely and unequivocally incorrect. Re-quotes have been around ever since the markets were allowed to float. At Alpari UK, we have staff who have been in the market for considerably longer than fifteen years. This was when fx trading was done via telex and phone brokers. When prices changed, re-quotes were given. The idea of a pc per desk was a pipedream at this time.

To avoid re-quotes you can opt for a Direct Market Access (DMA) account. We at Alpari (UK) refer to this as a Pro account. The basic difference here is that prices are not held static (for a few seconds) like non-DMA accounts, they constantly change. Consequently, the fill or kill orders. DMA accounts however do charge a commission (in lieu of spread) for each trade that you place.

To minimize re-quotes on non-DMA accounts:

1. "Enable the maximum deviation for quoted price" checkbox and set it above 10. This implies the max deviation is just 1 pip. To prevent re-quotes during volatile trading times, you may want to set the max deviation between 10 to 40 points (1 to 4 pips).

2. If you use an MT4 indicator to detect spread widening, please make sure that your indicator is configured for the 5 decimal pricing system that we use. Otherwise a 3 pip spread-widening will be shown as 30 pips by the indicator.

3. Another thing to consider is your internet connection to our servers. Test your latency by pinging the Alpari trading servers or just ping alpari.co.uk. If your latency is high (higher ms numbers), then this is one of the factor causing your orders to be re-quoted.

For example, let’s say a client is complaining about re-quotes. He gives us an account number and we pull the logs. We find that we received his order at let's say, 9:01:11 and sent the execution back at 9:01:12, so less than a second. He claims it took two minutes and was requoted. Now, his logs showed that the order was placed by him (manually) at 8:59:50. So, yes, assuming all timestamps are correct, that looks like 2 minutes, but we can clearly see that from the time it was received on our end until the time of execution it was barely only a second, hardly a bad time.

Traders in UK and Europe enjoy significantly lower latencies (hence higher speed execution) and experience almost no re-quotes (when maximum deviation setting is correct) than other traders usually in Asia, Australia, Africa or in countries where the internet is routed via proxies such as Saudi Arabia.

I can't really do much for someone that comes on this forum and presents baseless speculation as fact. We want to help. Please let us do so by providing any appropriate information to support@alpari.co.uk so that we can troubleshoot and address your concerns.


Alex

________
Alexander Chadwick
Alpari (UK) Representative
 
Old May 9th, 2012, 03:47 AM   #34
amazingIndustry
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 570
Alex,

Sorry but I could not disagree more. You make it sound like as if markets are static and prices only change infrequently. I am not surprised because after all you and other "retail" brokers make your own markets, so to speak (spikes appear where there never were any, stops are run at levels where the larger market never traded and such forth).

Whatever price feed you provide to your clients, as a matter of fact fx quotes in the general market (general = consolidated price feed that is generated by ECNs or inhouse consolidation engines that encompass many liquidity providers) do change ALL THE TIME, pretty much EVERY second. So, you are arguing that you would have to re-quote each and every single time. Of course that is not the case but you only re-quote when the market goes against your dealing desk, the other times you are more than happy to fill the client's order. Or are you denying that your main broker operations are not taking the other side of your client's order, thus that your interest is directly opposed to the client's interest?

You are blaming latency of data feeds on you re-quoting? Shame on you. Alex, the truth is that you and many other fx "bucket" shops are still trading against clients and make a handsome living off that fact. Some of the bucket shops now offer in addition to their "re-quote, stop hunting" engines a so-called non-dealing desk price feed, where you claim you simply pass along your liquidity provider's prices and fills. That may be true but I argued in length before generally it is the norm that "once bucket shop, always bucket shop" for the following reason: As a matter of fact FXCM and a number others who advertise to offer straight through processing engines do exact that EXCEPT that they now sleep in the same bed with their liquidity providers. Instead of you generating horribly bad/delayed fills, stop-hunts, artificial price spikes at levels where most liquidity never ever traded you now passed that job on to the liquidity providers who happy take over the nest-eggs, and in return partly reimburse you for your generosity through various kickbacks. I am not arguing with you about anything of the above because this is fact and everyone worth his salt and who has traded foreign exchange for several years knows perfectly well about this!!!

Why I still respond to your factually incorrect post is because here is my ADVISE TO NEWBIES OR THOSE WHO WANT TO GET TO AN AS-FAIR-AS-POSSIBLE MARKETPLACE:

-> Trade with brokers who strictly do not take risk and/or positions within the same entity than you are dealing with. NO EXCEPTIONS. Such brokers either maintain an in-house consolidation feed, where they stream the best bid/offers of all their liquidity providers to the client or brokers who offer access to ECNs. It will be well worth a little fortune in following this advise.
A telling sign is that the broker charges commission for executing trades, anything else is a shady business model: Think about it, how else is the broker gonna earn money? Either he charges you a fair commission that you KNOW BEFOREHAND, or he is gonna cheat you out of pips here and there and trust me, that is gonna add up to a multiple to what you pay in commissions.
-> Do not trade with brokers who were numerous times sued by their clients or sanctioned by their regulatory bodies. SIMPLY DO NOT, even if they now "generously" offer a non-dealing desk model. Think about it: Do you trust a convicted rapist who lives in your neighborhood and do you knowingly let your kids play in the direct vicinity. The wrongdoing here is not comparable but please tell me that I am wrong if you do not feel you got raped when your "trusted" broker runs your stop that is 50 pips away from the general market, then argues that this is where the price was for a split second and when you later on try to verify the broker curiously remove the "spike", as if it never existed, in order to rid himself off any evidence.

Attack me as much as you want, Alex, I know you cannot admit the games your firm and other shady brokers play but the above is a fact, DO A SIMPLE GOOGLE SEARCH READ FOR A FEW MINUTES THROUGH THE MANY FILED COMPLAINTS WITH REGULATORY BODIES AGAINST MENTIONED BROKERS, then come back and tell me I lied or made up stories.

What I find hilarious, Alex, is that you dare to tell us how re-quotes are a function of changing prices as if changing prices are a surprise to you. No re-quotes are a function of the price GOING AGAINST YOUR DESK, NOTHING ELSE!!!

Edit: In anticipation of your next post, no need to say "sorry that you had such bad experience with your broker but we do not engage in such practices". Alpari DOES engage in such practices, would you like me to gather numerous posts, sanctions and suits against your firm? Should I start with the sanction issued by the UK FSA in regards to money laundering? Or where else would you like me to start???


Quote:
Quote from Alpari UK:

Thank you for your reasoned and rationalised argument. It is however absolutely and unequivocally incorrect. Re-quotes have been around ever since the markets were allowed to float. At Alpari UK, we have staff who have been in the market for considerably longer than fifteen years. This was when fx trading was done via telex and phone brokers. When prices changed, re-quotes were given. The idea of a pc per desk was a pipedream at this time.

To avoid re-quotes you can opt for a Direct Market Access (DMA) account. We at Alpari (UK) refer to this as a Pro account. The basic difference here is that prices are not held static (for a few seconds) like non-DMA accounts, they constantly change. Consequently, the fill or kill orders. DMA accounts however do charge a commission (in lieu of spread) for each trade that you place.

To minimize re-quotes on non-DMA accounts:

1. "Enable the maximum deviation for quoted price" checkbox and set it above 10. This implies the max deviation is just 1 pip. To prevent re-quotes during volatile trading times, you may want to set the max deviation between 10 to 40 points (1 to 4 pips).

2. If you use an MT4 indicator to detect spread widening, please make sure that your indicator is configured for the 5 decimal pricing system that we use. Otherwise a 3 pip spread-widening will be shown as 30 pips by the indicator.

3. Another thing to consider is your internet connection to our servers. Test your latency by pinging the Alpari trading servers or just ping alpari.co.uk. If your latency is high (higher ms numbers), then this is one of the factor causing your orders to be re-quoted.

For example, let’s say a client is complaining about re-quotes. He gives us an account number and we pull the logs. We find that we received his order at let's say, 9:01:11 and sent the execution back at 9:01:12, so less than a second. He claims it took two minutes and was requoted. Now, his logs showed that the order was placed by him (manually) at 8:59:50. So, yes, assuming all timestamps are correct, that looks like 2 minutes, but we can clearly see that from the time it was received on our end until the time of execution it was barely only a second, hardly a bad time.

Traders in UK and Europe enjoy significantly lower latencies (hence higher speed execution) and experience almost no re-quotes (when maximum deviation setting is correct) than other traders usually in Asia, Australia, Africa or in countries where the internet is routed via proxies such as Saudi Arabia.

I can't really do much for someone that comes on this forum and presents baseless speculation as fact. We want to help. Please let us do so by providing any appropriate information to support@alpari.co.uk so that we can troubleshoot and address your concerns.


Alex

________
Alexander Chadwick
Alpari (UK) Representative
 
Old May 10th, 2012, 01:48 AM   #35
Alpari UK
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: London
Posts: 16
Quote:
Quote from amazingIndustry:

Alex,

Sorry but I could not disagree more. You make it sound like as if markets are static and prices only change infrequently. I am not surprised because after all you and other "retail" brokers make your own markets, so to speak (spikes appear where there never were any, stops are run at levels where the larger market never traded and such forth).

Whatever price feed you provide to your clients, as a matter of fact fx quotes in the general market (general = consolidated price feed that is generated by ECNs or inhouse consolidation engines that encompass many liquidity providers) do change ALL THE TIME, pretty much EVERY second. So, you are arguing that you would have to re-quote each and every single time. Of course that is not the case but you only re-quote when the market goes against your dealing desk, the other times you are more than happy to fill the client's order. Or are you denying that your main broker operations are not taking the other side of your client's order, thus that your interest is directly opposed to the client's interest?

You are blaming latency of data feeds on you re-quoting? Shame on you. Alex, the truth is that you and many other fx "bucket" shops are still trading against clients and make a handsome living off that fact. Some of the bucket shops now offer in addition to their "re-quote, stop hunting" engines a so-called non-dealing desk price feed, where you claim you simply pass along your liquidity provider's prices and fills. That may be true but I argued in length before generally it is the norm that "once bucket shop, always bucket shop" for the following reason: As a matter of fact FXCM and a number others who advertise to offer straight through processing engines do exact that EXCEPT that they now sleep in the same bed with their liquidity providers. Instead of you generating horribly bad/delayed fills, stop-hunts, artificial price spikes at levels where most liquidity never ever traded you now passed that job on to the liquidity providers who happy take over the nest-eggs, and in return partly reimburse you for your generosity through various kickbacks. I am not arguing with you about anything of the above because this is fact and everyone worth his salt and who has traded foreign exchange for several years knows perfectly well about this!!!

Why I still respond to your factually incorrect post is because here is my ADVISE TO NEWBIES OR THOSE WHO WANT TO GET TO AN AS-FAIR-AS-POSSIBLE MARKETPLACE:

-> Trade with brokers who strictly do not take risk and/or positions within the same entity than you are dealing with. NO EXCEPTIONS. Such brokers either maintain an in-house consolidation feed, where they stream the best bid/offers of all their liquidity providers to the client or brokers who offer access to ECNs. It will be well worth a little fortune in following this advise.
A telling sign is that the broker charges commission for executing trades, anything else is a shady business model: Think about it, how else is the broker gonna earn money? Either he charges you a fair commission that you KNOW BEFOREHAND, or he is gonna cheat you out of pips here and there and trust me, that is gonna add up to a multiple to what you pay in commissions.
-> Do not trade with brokers who were numerous times sued by their clients or sanctioned by their regulatory bodies. SIMPLY DO NOT, even if they now "generously" offer a non-dealing desk model. Think about it: Do you trust a convicted rapist who lives in your neighborhood and do you knowingly let your kids play in the direct vicinity. The wrongdoing here is not comparable but please tell me that I am wrong if you do not feel you got raped when your "trusted" broker runs your stop that is 50 pips away from the general market, then argues that this is where the price was for a split second and when you later on try to verify the broker curiously remove the "spike", as if it never existed, in order to rid himself off any evidence.

Attack me as much as you want, Alex, I know you cannot admit the games your firm and other shady brokers play but the above is a fact, DO A SIMPLE GOOGLE SEARCH READ FOR A FEW MINUTES THROUGH THE MANY FILED COMPLAINTS WITH REGULATORY BODIES AGAINST MENTIONED BROKERS, then come back and tell me I lied or made up stories.

What I find hilarious, Alex, is that you dare to tell us how re-quotes are a function of changing prices as if changing prices are a surprise to you. No re-quotes are a function of the price GOING AGAINST YOUR DESK, NOTHING ELSE!!!

Edit: In anticipation of your next post, no need to say "sorry that you had such bad experience with your broker but we do not engage in such practices". Alpari DOES engage in such practices, would you like me to gather numerous posts, sanctions and suits against your firm? Should I start with the sanction issued by the UK FSA in regards to money laundering? Or where else would you like me to start???
Thank you for your reply.

I've answered the only specific question you had regarding re-quotes. However, discussions around baseless claims are not something I wish to participate in any further here.

Should you have any other specifics you would like to discuss, please email our support team at support@alpari.co.uk . We will be happy to help in any way we can.

I wish you all the best with your trading.


Alex

________
Alexander Chadwick
Alpari (UK) Representative
 
Old May 15th, 2012, 12:35 AM   #36
amazingIndustry
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 570
how is this baseless?

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/final/alpari.pdf

those reviews look interesting (of course the negative ratings must be written by competing brokers right?):
http://www.100forexbrokers.com/revie...ings/alpari-uk

I just try to encourage beginners to perform thorough research regarding various brokers, either through NFA, CFTC, or simply reading other clients' reviews. It speaks for itself and is anything but baseless.




Quote:
Quote from Alpari UK:

Thank you for your reply.

I've answered the only specific question you had regarding re-quotes. However, discussions around baseless claims are not something I wish to participate in any further here.

Should you have any other specifics you would like to discuss, please email our support team at support@alpari.co.uk . We will be happy to help in any way we can.

I wish you all the best with your trading.


Alex

________
Alexander Chadwick
Alpari (UK) Representative
 
 
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