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Old Apr 16th, 2012, 11:45 AM   #19
JamesL
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Chris Christie's enormous shadow
Posts: 2,669
A $2500 account, following strict 1% drawdown rule using 20 pip stops and 2:1 reward to risk can trade size of 12,500 (or roughly $1.25 a pip). Assuming you are typical of most experienced traders (not noobies), there will be 3 winning days for every 2 losers, so...

(3*40) - (2*20) = 80 pips/week. ($100/week)

This should be the goal. If you can accomplish this, build the account from these levels.
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Old Apr 16th, 2012, 11:58 AM   #20
TRS
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 607
Quote:
Quote from TRS:

Pips not dollars.

Minimum 50 pips per 24 hour session
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Old Apr 16th, 2012, 01:13 PM   #21
dom993
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 844
A correlated question you should ask is "and how long will it take me to get to a point where I can consistently make money trading"

and another one is "what are the chances of it happening for me"


Starting with the last one, you'll find different figures depending where you look / who you ask, but the ballpark is 5% to 20% chances for you (or anyone) to make it as a successful trader.


Answer to the prior question is most likely "a few" years of 24/7/365 hard work.


Answer to your initial question is ... pending you are financially able to work on this for "a few" years before making a dime, and one of the rare few who eventually make it, then the figure of $100/week for a $2500 account would be a very good achievement ... this is 200% / year, before compounding.
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Old Apr 16th, 2012, 03:05 PM   #22
tenthousandmen
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Silicon Valley California, St. Petersberg Florida, Sydney Austrailia
Posts: 728
HATEtherisk made a thread where he took a demo account of a few thousand to many times more in a few days, just to prove to people it could be done.

The op will blow out his account, almost certain. 95%+ of every trader does it as beginners, It will take just a few hours.
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Old Apr 16th, 2012, 04:44 PM   #23
traderslair
 
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 411
$00,000.00
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Old Apr 16th, 2012, 05:14 PM   #24
Good1
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 315
OP, about an online "Trading Academy". While i don't know anything about that particular "school", i know something about marketing. Generally speaking, wiith "good" marketing, you are going to pay inflated prices for information, especially ROI (return on investment) information. As a rule of thumb, what you pay $199 for, you could've gotten from a book for less than $30, and often for $5 in the used book store. The thing you buy for $199 is often a "lead", leading you to a seminar somewhere which is called the "backend" where the marketers make their best money.

Imo, the information you can find for little to free (because of the generosity of others) is worth as much or more than what you can find at a school like that. And, because the market does not respect any kind of degree (which is a bonus actually), there's no one to impress with the degree you might get from a trading "academy", unless you are looking to get your series 7 so you can be some kind of financial adviser.

So imo, spending the majority of your starting capital on information that you might have gotten for little to free through other sources, or what you could have got from knowing how to run a spreadsheet, is not a good "trade" off.

That might be why a lot of folk here think you will blow your account. Yes, information is important. But i would challenge you to limit your purchases of information to 10% of your current capital ($6,500). Stretch that budget out over a year over several sources. Accept the generosity given now and then in forums, learning to sift through the b.s. that is not applicable to your situation.

Obviously, what people think can be made per day with that much capital is all over the map. We've heard anywhere from $50 a day to $500 a day. You could start with a goal that's high or low, but the person who may make $500 a day has to believe it's possible enough to keep searching for the information that would make that possible. That takes an open mind.

A goal to be profitable daily, it seems to me, requires you to make many trades in a day so that in N number of trades, you are usually coming out ahead with Q certainty. This will probably require you be looking at several markets for the same set-up(s), but like i say, you have to keep an open mind about the possibilities. You might only need to look at one market.

Are you open minded enough to consider binary options? If so, you can perhaps better manage your risk-per-attempt to a fraction of your capital that is more likely to offer you odds of success in the long run. Lots of trading information relative to forex or whatever is applicable to what you can do with binary options. There will be plenty of markets to look at if you need multiple markets (multiple currency pairs, etc).

Find one idea that might work for you and build on that. Or, find one robot that works (and build on that), or one signal service that works, or one money manager that works and will share net profits with you. Robots and signal services are going to be a lot less than what the trading school is asking. What you can make per day is largely relative to how much informed effort you put into building on your base money-maker.

I will manage your $2500 for half of net profits. If i can make net $200 a day with it, then you can make $100 of that and i can make $100. If you think you can beat that, then take $2500 of the $4500 you were going to spend on the school, manage it yourself, and try to beat me. Put the other $2000 under some other kind of management to see if that management (a signal service? a robot?) can beat the both of us.

Anyone who says you will blow your account is implying they can manage your money for you better than you can...at least for a while. They might not make the offer because they only like to trade their own account and not be hassled with OPM. No one would bother dealing with $2500 of OPM for 15%, unless it was a drop in a pool the size of an ocean.

The model i'm proposing - 50% net - is relatively *new*. It's a compromise between the likelihood of blowing up one's own account, and the no-glass-ceiling that leveraged markets offer to the informed, open-minded, and resourceful. If anyone here thinks they can help this guy out better than i can, then make an offer! I suspect there will be relatively few offers, but from what is offered, it should be easy to select a manager. Giving 50% of net to a manager on a quarterly, monthly or weekly basis makes him/her extremely interested in your success.

One way to find management for your forex capital is by googling around. You can find them associated with certain kinds of sites, and even connected with certain brokers. Typically, you'd pay 25% of net, or $50-100 a month to subscribe to a signal service. But if you are interested in daily income, you've got to search, search, search! Did you know, for example, that you can get signal services for binary options?

A manager will probably not recommend you start taking daily income from an account the size of $2500, especially if he is splitting net profits with you. You want to wait till it's built up to where $100 a day does not kill the goose that lays the golden egg. I recommend you put $1000 of your $2500 under a manager that will grow it to $10,000, at which point you start taking $100 a day if it represents half the daily average growth of the account. In this way, it becomes a growth-income account, the only kind that really makes much sense. That way, your $100 a day might grow to $200 a day, while capital growth is allowed to support even more down the road.

A manager like this isn't necessarily going to be a teacher, like someone you might meet at a trading academy. But you will no doubt learn some things, just as investors in Berkshire Hathaway might learn a few things from Warren Buffet about stock picking. I personally am not interested in teaching, certainly not as a business model.

A signal service and other models of management still leave the size of your risk with you. How much % of capital will you allocate per deal, per "trade" (you don't really trade anything in forex), per idea...is still up to you, the capitalist. So, theoretically, you could still blow your account even if you've got a pretty good signal service. The management model that i propose would also be the one deciding how much capital to expose to any one deal. That's fully managed. Your task would simply be to estimate how much of your $2500 or $6500 you ought to allocate/diversify toward full management. If you were letting me manage it, i would not let you allocate more than $1000. If you are determined to spend $4500 on education though, you should look to put that under management as well, where you have a chance to learn by observing, or listening whenever that manager had something to say.

Besides myself, i would like to see a lot more minds step up to offer help to holders of capital that are likely to blow it. Teaching is likely to be inadequate. Telling someone they will blow their account is also inadequate. Giving someone (spelling it out) a base system that works is the closest thing to what works in a forum like this. An offer to manage is the very best, if you feel that what you can produce is as near a guarantee of success as a capital allocator is likely to achieve in the near-term...and you feel the capitalist can learn something along the way for long-term success.

Who are the money-managers here at Elite Trader? If you aren't, why not? My guess is not many because there is not enough incentive, such as full management with a 50-50 split of net profits. The other guess is no need. People here might have already too much on their plate, or too much in their own account to bother. If that describes you, please don't bother to criticize this model. Instead, offer ideas as to how this model might better work on a % of capital that would otherwise likely be blown.

Meanwhile, if i was the OP, i would be determined to rely on google to hone in on the information needed to grow $2500 using the Forex (or more) as an underlying rate/price feed...and for free. Use profit from the free information to pay for information in small bites, to see if it can beat the information you've already got. But that there is free info that can make you money, there's no doubt about that. Just find the few generous minds who have contributed to the shared/open source.
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