Forums - Jack Hershey Method: Channels

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Posted by Chicken Little on 06-08-06 12:15 AM:

Jack Hershey Method: Channels

Beginner rockets are just a subset of the Jack Hershey Method channel trading concept according to JH, so let's have a look at them.

Posted by Trader666 on 06-08-06 02:39 AM:

Hershey in a Nutshell

Will my Jack Hershey Cliffs Notes help? They're made almost entirely of direct quotes from Jack himself or A Team documents, with minor editing.

I speak from an orientation IBM made when it had 80% of the worled market. IBM assembled folks in Poghkeepsie and later Eurpoeans in Kilchberg Switzerland. I am a product of the US science search of the late 40's to early 50's and also I lived in the peculiar climate of BTL then the Darvas period of NYC and Greenwich, Conn. I was bouncing from Shockey and Shannon to Princeton on Tuesdays to Science Fairs on tesla and half lives of radio active elements. My preferred dining place in Princeton is the Princeton Inn. I played cops and robbers in the Firestone Library when it was being build (as a guest of the contractors twin children). I am not asking for snow conditions at Whistler or where you dine in NYC.

For the markets I sight several data characterisics not at all familiar. I don't do edges. The B Team has it all understood and is stuck in a place that is different than my views. Franco Modigliani recently of MIT had the theory for sure. Modigliani determined, and WON he NP for a Contribution. I abide by his remedy. Therefore by my pro active behavior, I have an offer in support of the remedy. As time passes and you look at stuff like Norbert Weiner and Richard Restak you will find out how impressive the first steps are.

It is not a coiincidence at all in any way what so ever that the dream team is saying things about integrating the sewweep focal points and saying the inferential things they say and that B has had a eureka on the channel overlap. This is what Barbara Marx Hubbard was suggesting in her oncept of sinergistic convergence among isolated groups that merge into larger common purpose groups. Doxiatis out of greece did the same with Ekistiks, the science of human settlements.

Surf the gaussians on the lower fractals to do 4 to 7% a day. 1% a day is underachieving. You can have 7/8 winners. Non performers give you cash for performers. My best net to dat5e was 17 points on a 100,000 shares in the 30 dollar exit range. Taking half that out of the market is a normal way to operate for me. The four levels of Icebergers exist. Level IV enters on 50% crossover with divergence of the fast stochastic lines. Level I’s enter as do rocketeers. Levels II and III enter using the rocket rules on the fast stochastic (5, 2, 3). Levels I and II exit when the fast stochastic comes out the other side of the 20/80. Level II’s reverse into a long trade. Level IV’s reverse on the 50% where lines are divergent. Confirm your iceberg entry and determine that the iceberg is now operating at low risk. Follow SCT rules as superceding rocket rules. All the indicators are designed for integration over a spectrum of fractals. Use three MLR's and measure the rate of change of the three pairs of angular velocities generated and use something kindred to the algebra for base five as a starter.

Backtesting is not a viable means for finding anything out. The reason why is fairly straightforward to determine. If you are backtesting something and you feel you have grasp the thing you are backtesting, then you have failed to really grasp what (the thing) is going on. It is not possible for a person who does not know what is going on to back test this stuff. I have stated it. And it just flows from there using boolean algebra.

Lay out three ring binders with annotations to scope out and bound the PV relationship and detail the SCT paradigm. Together it will take you at least 2000 pages. Print on the left side of the binders only and do it every day at least 100 times on all fractals. Put a tab in your binder labeled CC. (compare and contrast). CC is excellent as you can read. All annotations take as much as possible out of play. You will have assembled it and you can go through it and figure out in detail all the things I did to produce the stuff.

This practical method is condensed from camtasia replays where about 3/4 of the stuff is removed. Someone will get you there if you do not have all that stuff in a binder. It also has all glossary terms in bold. A walk in the park is the place to start.

In the past ET has seen blank forms and filled in forms from me. They have seen me post combos as well for the $600 per contract that is where you will be operating. The record is there on this and you have seen it and and you are doing likewise I am sure. You will notice that you are now getting in gear on this.

Posted by Chicken Little on 06-08-06 03:01 AM:

Here is a chart with channels provided by JH. It states the following about the construction of channels:

"All channels drawn on two consecutive bars where first bar is a FTT of prior channel. All channels overlap".

FTT = Failure To Trend

The FTT shows up as a move beyond the end of the bar opposite the direction of the channel. For example, the first lower low after a series of higher lows indicates a failure to trend in an upward sloping channel.

Posted by riskarb on 06-08-06 03:43 AM:

Quote from Chicken Little:

Here is a chart with channels provided by JH. It states the following about the construction of channels:

"All channels drawn on two consecutive bars where first bar is a FTT of prior channel. All channels overlap".

FTT = Failure To Trend

The FTT shows up as a move beyond the end of the bar opposite the direction of the channel. For example, the first lower low after a series of higher lows indicates a failure to trend in an upward sloping channel.

This chart is a parody, right?

__________________
"When in doubt, there is no doubt"

Posted by nononsense on 06-08-06 10:37 AM:

For those who still fail to discover any method in Jack's blurbs, the chart below may put tem on their way.

Quote from Ripley:

__________________
Trend Finding is Edge Finding and Edge Finding is Trend Finding
nononsense's axiom

Posted by hypostomus on 06-08-06 11:54 AM:

You idiot. CL! At least get your jackronyms right. It's "failure to traverse".

__________________
Hypostomus Plecostomus (Not an alias)

Hypostomus enthusiastically endorses the products and services offered by E-Signal and Interactive Brokers, and will continue to do so until they pay me to stop.

Posted by Chicken Little on 06-08-06 01:38 PM:

Quote from hypostomus:

You idiot. CL! At least get your jackronyms right. It's "failure to traverse".

Of course it is !!

My bad.

This example provided by the inestimable Mr. hypotenuse illustrates the high level of audience participation I would like to see on this thread and further it reflects his level of studious delving into the Jack Hershey Methods.

But, may I ask "what's your angle ?"

Posted by oddiduro on 06-08-06 02:00 PM:

Quote from Chicken Little:

Here is a chart with channels provided by JH. It states the following about the construction of channels:

"All channels drawn on two consecutive bars where first bar is a FTT of prior channel. All channels overlap".

FTT = Failure To Trend

The FTT shows up as a move beyond the end of the bar opposite the direction of the channel. For example, the first lower low after a series of higher lows indicates a failure to trend in an upward sloping channel.

Okay CL...

I took you off of ignore to try this one more time. Why? Because Jack made us promise to try to help others once we "got it".

So, what exactly are you trying to grip by starting this thread?

__________________
Once you get a good understanding of your craft, all the masters say the same things in different languages.

Posted by Trader666 on 06-08-06 02:16 PM:

Quote from Chicken Little:

Here is a chart with channels provided by JH. It states the following about the construction of channels:

"All channels drawn on two consecutive bars where first bar is a FTT of prior channel. All channels overlap".

FTT = Failure To Trend

The FTT shows up as a move beyond the end of the bar opposite the direction of the channel. For example, the first lower low after a series of higher lows indicates a failure to trend in an upward sloping channel.

A few questions please!

I remember that diagram being from Jack himself and would like to apply his guidance: "All annotations take as much as possible out of play. You will have assembled it and you can go through it and figure out in detail all the things I did to produce the stuff."

So my questions are: do you think it would be best to have a separate page in my 3 ring binder for each trendline? Will that be enough to take EVERYTHING out of play? Do you think that one page per trendline will be enough to "figure out in detail all the things [he] did to produce the stuff?" The way I look at it, better safe than sorry! Also, what about all the other fractals? And the Gaussians?

Posted by Trader666 on 06-08-06 02:17 PM:

Quote from nononsense:

For those who still fail to discover any method in Jack's blurbs, the chart below may put tem on their way.

Does this depict the interleaving fractals?

Posted by Chicken Little on 06-08-06 02:51 PM:

Quote from oddiduro:

Okay CL...

I took you off of ignore to try this one more time. Why? Because Jack made us promise to try to help others once we "got it".

So, what exactly are you trying to grip by starting this thread?

Thanks Oddiduro.

Your feedback as to where I may be misstating things would be helpful. If channels make 3x the daily range in the ES then I want to know how to use them for that purpose.

Posted by hypostomus on 06-08-06 02:57 PM:

CL. My "angle" as you put it is simple and oft repeated. The study of Jack is heuristic. Further, I would wish that all of ET, and all that I trade against, would follow him.

Posted by tradingbug on 06-08-06 03:37 PM:

Quote from oddiduro:

Because Jack made us promise to try to help others once we "got it".

Help people who have the mental capability to understand......

This thread is another clear example of the haves and have nots and specifically how they act.

Posted by bounty_one on 06-08-06 03:49 PM:

Re: Jack Hershey Method: Channels

Quote from Chicken Little:

Beginner rockets are just a subset of the Jack Hershey Method channel trading concept according to JH, so let's have a look at them.

Chicken, please keep up the good work! Maybe you can start a few other threads concerning Jack's demanding methods? Or could you even post some of his cooking recipes, too?

Posted by Chicken Little on 06-08-06 04:32 PM:

Oddiduro:

These channels are drawn using the following logic:

Two pairs of bars constitute the minimum channel.
On a new channel the first line is drawn in the new direction by connecting point 1 to the min/max of the bar pointing in the new direction. Then a parallel line is placed from the min/max of bar 2.

For example, the channel is downward sloping i.e., as x increases y decreases. On the first bar to exceed the high of the previous bar a new channel is drawn. The point 1 is the low of the previous bar and the first line is drawn between the low of the previous bar and the low of the current bar. Then a parallel line is draw from the top of the current bar.

If the channel is widened, a new parallel is drawn from the min/max of the bar widening the channel.

Posted by Chicken Little on 06-08-06 04:37 PM:

Quote from hypostomus:

CL. My "angle" as you put it is simple and oft repeated. The study of Jack is heuristic. Further, I would wish that all of ET, and all that I trade against, would follow him.

Sorry hypo, just a feeble attempt at a little word play.

hypoteneuse, angle, inestimable.

Posted by Chicken Little on 06-08-06 04:51 PM:

Channel widening example.

Posted by Chicken Little on 06-08-06 06:56 PM:

Continued

Posted by Chicken Little on 06-08-06 07:16 PM:

Quote from riskarb:

This chart is a parody, right?

No its what JH produced on the Beginner rockets thread in response to a chart I posted.

Posted by Chicken Little on 06-08-06 08:01 PM:

afternoon

Posted by oddiduro on 06-09-06 02:01 AM:

Quote from Chicken Little:

afternoon

CL,

Please label your points 1,2 and 3 on your next set of charts, as I cannot make heads or tails of your channels.

Best Regards
Oddi

__________________
Once you get a good understanding of your craft, all the masters say the same things in different languages.

Posted by 4XIS4U on 06-09-06 02:17 AM:

Dude ... your channels are incorrect... u should go back to Jack's material and re-read it... sorry

__________________
-----------------
4X_is_4U

Posted by Chicken Little on 06-09-06 03:45 PM:

with 123

channel points alternate in color

up = light blue
dn = orange

Posted by Chicken Little on 06-09-06 03:47 PM:

resized

Posted by Chicken Little on 06-09-06 04:17 PM:

Posted by Chicken Little on 06-09-06 04:18 PM:

Posted by Chicken Little on 06-09-06 05:14 PM:

Posted by Chicken Little on 06-09-06 10:07 PM:

Through EOD.

Oddiduro:
Do these look more accurate ?

Posted by oddiduro on 06-09-06 10:09 PM:

Quote from Chicken Little:

9

Step one is tenatively accomplished, you can draw channels. Now, please add the guassians to the bottom of your chart. Label them appropriately. The documentation on how to do this can be found on the site.

Regards
Oddi

__________________
Once you get a good understanding of your craft, all the masters say the same things in different languages.

Posted by Bearbelly on 06-09-06 10:56 PM:

Just an interested bystander but I thought point 1 was an ftt. A lot of this posters point ones dont appear to be ftt's but Im no expert by any means and it is hard for me to see the trendlines on these charts..

Posted by oddiduro on 06-09-06 11:51 PM:

Quote from Bearbelly:

Just an interested bystander but I thought point 1 was an ftt. A lot of this posters point ones dont appear to be ftt's but Im no expert by any means and it is hard for me to see the trendlines on these charts..

Usually, a point one is an FTT, that is correct. However, if price breaches the left side of former channel on a subsequent bar, then point one can be a full traverse of the former channel.

I did notice upon review that CL is not connecting the dots. Your first trendline should connect points one and three. Your second trendline should run across point two, parrallel to the first trendline.

One more thing to CL...One chart at EOD will do.

Best Regards
Oddi

__________________
Once you get a good understanding of your craft, all the masters say the same things in different languages.

Posted by Bitstream on 06-10-06 12:34 AM:

Quote from oddiduro:

[...]Why? Because Jack made us promise to try to help others once we "got it".

fascinatin'...

Posted by Chicken Little on 06-10-06 01:04 AM:

Quote from oddiduro:

Usually, a point one is an FTT, that is correct. However, if price breaches the left side of former channel on a subsequent bar, then point one can be a full traverse of the former channel.

I did notice upon review that CL is not connecting the dots. Your first trendline should connect points one and three. Your second trendline should run across point two, parrallel to the first trendline.

One more thing to CL...One chart at EOD will do.

Best Regards
Oddi

In some cases point 3 is " blown out". Annotate regardless ?

Posted by Chicken Little on 06-10-06 01:10 AM:

another blow out

Posted by Chicken Little on 06-10-06 01:18 AM:

Quote from Chicken Little:

Oddiduro:

These channels are drawn using the following logic:

One pair of bars constitute the minimum channel.
On a new channel the first line is drawn in the new direction by connecting point 1 to the min/max of the bar pointing in the new direction. Then a parallel line is placed from the min/max of bar 2.

For example, the channel is downward sloping i.e., as x increases y decreases. On the first bar to exceed the high of the previous bar a new channel is drawn. The point 1 is the low of the previous bar and the first line is drawn between the low of the previous bar and the low of the current bar. Then a parallel line is draw from the top of the current bar.

If the channel is widened, a new parallel is drawn from the min/max of the bar widening the channel.

Restate quoted in red.

Posted by oddiduro on 06-10-06 01:19 AM:

Quote from Bitstream:

fascinatin'...

Not really, there is a concept called each one teach one. You get back what you put out.

__________________
Once you get a good understanding of your craft, all the masters say the same things in different languages.

Posted by oddiduro on 06-10-06 01:23 AM:

Quote from Chicken Little:

Restate quoted in red.

I do not understand what you are getting at with your last post, please clarify.

With regards to your channels, DO NOT ANTICIPATE point 3. Point three develops when point three develops. Put another way, these are PIVOT points. If there is no pivot, there is no point.

Regards
Oddi

__________________
Once you get a good understanding of your craft, all the masters say the same things in different languages.

Posted by oddiduro on 06-10-06 01:30 AM:

To clarify a pivot, look for a low flanked by a higher low on each side, or a high flanked by a lower high on each side. Please label your points 1, 2, and 3 based on these criteria. Your charts will look differently.

Regards
Oddi

__________________
Once you get a good understanding of your craft, all the masters say the same things in different languages.

Posted by Chicken Little on 06-10-06 01:47 AM:

Quote from oddiduro:

I do not understand what you are getting at with your last post, please clarify.

With regards to your channels, DO NOT ANTICIPATE point 3. Point three develops when point three develops. Put another way, these are PIVOT points. If there is no pivot, there is no point.

Regards
Oddi

I said two pairs of bars when I should have said a (one) pair of bars.

If a channel is upward sloping i.e., as x increases y increases then by definition point 3 must lie greater than both 1x and 1y.

So if I am trying to identify point 3 and it "would be" below point 1 it would invalidate itself as point 3 and instead be a continuation of the previous channel, correct ?

Does every channel contain 1, 2 and 3 ?

Posted by tradingbug on 06-10-06 01:48 AM:

Quote from oddiduro:

Not really, there is a concept called each one teach one. You get back what you put out.

Give back to someone who will give back to others. Chicken is not that type of person.

I find it extrememly pathetic that you are helping chicken little in anyway after all the shit he posted challenging Jacks integrity.

Posted by Chicken Little on 06-10-06 01:51 AM:

Quote from oddiduro:

To clarify a pivot, look for a low flanked by a higher low on each side, or a high flanked by a lower high on each side. Please label your points 1, 2, and 3 based on these criteria. Your charts will look differently.

Regards
Oddi

Thats pretty much the situation here.

Posted by tradingbug on 06-10-06 01:59 AM:

Quote from Chicken Little:

See. You mother fuckers show up and start in on it.

Now YOU know how it feels. .......It sucks when your on the other end of the stick doesnt it?

So you can dish it out but you cant take it? Go cry to someone who cares.

Posted by Chicken Little on 06-10-06 02:02 AM:

Quote from tradingbug:

Now YOU know how it feels. .......It sucks when your on the other end of the stick doesnt it?

So you can dish it out but you cant take it? Go cry to someone who cares.

In this case your is an inappropriate word. It shows what a mullet you are.

Posted by tradingbug on 06-10-06 02:09 AM:

Quote from Chicken Little:

In this case your is an inappropriate word. It shows what a mullet you are.

Good one buddy. That was a comeback I haven't heard since 3rd grade. Thanks for taking me back to my prepubescent times.

EDIT: This is my last post here as I have wasted enough energy with this nonsense. Go ahead and have your last word.

gl

Posted by Chicken Little on 06-10-06 02:10 AM:

Quote from tradingbug:

Good one buddy. That was a comeback I haven't heard since 3rd grade. Thanks for taking me back to my prepubescent times.

How far back is the present ?

Posted by Chicken Little on 06-10-06 02:14 AM:

Quote from tradingbug:

Good one buddy. That was a comeback I haven't heard since 3rd grade. Thanks for taking me back to my prepubescent times.

EDIT: This is my last post here as I have wasted enough energy with this nonsense. Go ahead and have your last word.

gl

about 3 nano-joules

Posted by Bitstream on 06-10-06 02:14 AM:

Quote from oddiduro:

Not really, there is a concept called each one teach one. You get back what you put out.

sorry.... was just referrin' to the ceremonial aspect of 'the promise'

Posted by oddiduro on 06-10-06 04:48 AM:

Quote from tradingbug:

Give back to someone who will give back to others. Chicken is not that type of person.

I find it extrememly pathetic that you are helping chicken little in anyway after all the shit he posted challenging Jacks integrity.

Frankly, I advised Jack to put CL, 666, and hypo on ignore. I PM'ed him and showed him how to do it. He continues to post. Therefore, based on the fact that we have been corresponding for nearly three years, I took that to infer that he is serious about his mission of getting people to a money making point. So, when CL started another thread, I took him off of ignore and began to try to teach him what I knew.

Love thine enemies, convert them to friends. Unless CL gets abusive to Jack a second time, I will chalk it up to stress.

Best Regards
Oddi

__________________
Once you get a good understanding of your craft, all the masters say the same things in different languages.

Posted by oddiduro on 06-10-06 04:50 AM:

Quote from Chicken Little:

I said two pairs of bars when I should have said a (one) pair of bars.

If a channel is upward sloping i.e., as x increases y increases then by definition point 3 must lie greater than both 1x and 1y.

So if I am trying to identify point 3 and it "would be" below point 1 it would invalidate itself as point 3 and instead be a continuation of the previous channel, correct ?

Does every channel contain 1, 2 and 3 ?

Yes, EVERY channel contains a 1,2, and 3. If it does not, then it is not valid. You must trade against valid channels only.

__________________
Once you get a good understanding of your craft, all the masters say the same things in different languages.

Posted by oddiduro on 06-10-06 04:55 AM:

Quote from Chicken Little:

Thats pretty much the situation here.

On the portion of the chart that you have circled, there is no valid point 2 or point 3.

A higher high flanked by two lower high, or a lower low flanked by two higher lows.

To tradingbug.....there are others that are following this thread, this is a public forum. CL and his behavior will speak for itself, good or bad.

__________________
Once you get a good understanding of your craft, all the masters say the same things in different languages.

Posted by oddiduro on 06-10-06 05:08 AM:

Quote from Chicken Little:

LOOK.

If JH stuff makes money, then let's see it !!

Walk me thorough it. Others want to see it too.

This is not a biased thread . If we go throught the steps and profits occur, do you think I will post false stuff just to bash JH ?
I dont give a fuck about JH's legacy and I don't bow at his altar.

BUT, if his shit makes money at the rate of 2-3x the daily range I wont hide it !!!!

Well, if you follow instructions precisely, you will be fine.

__________________
Once you get a good understanding of your craft, all the masters say the same things in different languages.

Posted by slacker on 06-10-06 05:15 AM:

Quote from oddiduro:

Well, if you follow instructions precisely, you will be fine.

Thank you for the posts. A guide through JH land is helpful!

How do you enter at pt 3! Do you wait for volume to confirm? Can you point me to JH doc that explains entries?

Thanks again.

Thanks to CL as well for the thread!

Posted by Chicken Little on 06-10-06 05:30 AM:

Quote from oddiduro:

On the portion of the chart that you have circled, there is no valid point 2 or point 3.

A higher high flanked by two lower high, or a lower low flanked by two higher lows.

To tradingbug.....there are others that are following this thread, this is a public forum. CL and his behavior will speak for itself, good or bad.

Please review the circles. I believe you will find in the blue circle a high surrounded by two lower highs and in the yellow circle a low surrounded by two higher lows.

Posted by oddiduro on 06-10-06 06:33 AM:

Quote from Chicken Little:

Please review the circles. I believe you will find in the blue circle a high surrounded by two lower highs and in the yellow circle a low surrounded by two higher lows.

Okay, I got you. Point 1 and 2 are circled. Could you please circle point 3?

__________________
Once you get a good understanding of your craft, all the masters say the same things in different languages.

Posted by oddiduro on 06-10-06 06:43 AM:

Quote from slacker:

Thank you for the posts. A guide through JH land is helpful!

How do you enter at pt 3! Do you wait for volume to confirm? Can you point me to JH doc that explains entries?

Thanks again.

Thanks to CL as well for the thread!

The traverse to the other side of the channel after point 3 is entered with correct STOC and MACD parameters in addition to volume.

If these things do not line up, I do not enter, no exceptions.

There are many Hershey traders out there, and entry and exit are not precise, it depends on the trader. For me I have to see everything line up.

Leaving things out will increase the risk.

Best Regards
Oddi

__________________
Once you get a good understanding of your craft, all the masters say the same things in different languages.

Posted by SethArb on 06-10-06 06:48 AM:

lets have a trader contest ... two traders on ET one using

"JACK H" methods against the others "Woody CCI" method

and see who has the best return and least drawdown after a

month ...

Posted by oddiduro on 06-10-06 06:52 AM:

Quote from SethArb:

lets have a trader contest ... two traders on ET one using

"JACK H" methods against the others "Woody CCI" method

and see who has the best return and least drawdown after a

month ...

And the purpose of this would be??

__________________
Once you get a good understanding of your craft, all the masters say the same things in different languages.

Posted by SethArb on 06-10-06 07:12 AM:

oh I am curious ... what % of people who trade following other peoples so called " holy grail" methods
make anywhere as much as the "guru"s they follow

Posted by oddiduro on 06-10-06 07:40 AM:

Quote from SethArb:

oh I am curious ... what % of people who trade following other peoples so called " holy grail" methods
make anywhere as much as the "guru"s they follow

The method is not a holy grail, I do not recall Jack being a guru. But there are more than enough threads documenting the success of the methods SethArb.

What the hell are you doing out of the option forum anyway??

Go home!

__________________
Once you get a good understanding of your craft, all the masters say the same things in different languages.

Posted by oddiduro on 06-10-06 07:42 AM:

CL,

These are the channels I would have drawn.

__________________
Once you get a good understanding of your craft, all the masters say the same things in different languages.

Posted by SethArb on 06-10-06 07:44 AM:

hello sir

I do not post in option forum ...

but I wish you health and success in trading using your methods

and or jack h 's ....

Posted by oddiduro on 06-10-06 08:29 AM:

Quote from SethArb:

hello sir

I do not post in option forum ...

but I wish you health and success in trading using your methods

and or jack h 's ....

Sorry Mr Arb,

I know that you are a very reputable trader, but I don't visit where you post. Since I know nothing about options other than not to buy them or write them naked I assumed that it was there, I appreciate your input and your encouragement.

Best Regards
Oddi

__________________
Once you get a good understanding of your craft, all the masters say the same things in different languages.

Posted by Bearbelly on 06-10-06 12:37 PM:

I am really interested in this subject and am trying to follow along but I have a really hard time seeing CLs charts and trendlines. Is this a problem with my resolution? Can others see them clearly? Oddiduro, attached is a portion of your chart and I am wondering how you deal with those bars like the ones my arrows are pointing at. These appear to be ftt's that break the right trendline. Would you not reverse here according to Grob109? Then I suppose you would then have to reverse again?

Posted by Bearbelly on 06-10-06 12:37 PM:

I forgot to include the chart.

Posted by bali_survivor on 06-10-06 12:49 PM:

Quote from nononsense:

For those who still fail to discover any method in Jack's blurbs, the chart below may put tem on their way.

LOL

Maria

Posted by nononsense on 06-10-06 12:51 PM:

Quote from SethArb:

oh I am curious ... what % of people who trade following other peoples so called " holy grail" methods
make anywhere as much as the "guru"s they follow

This being said: where does that wretched guru make that money? For sure, not in the market.

__________________
Trend Finding is Edge Finding and Edge Finding is Trend Finding
nononsense's axiom

Posted by Trader666 on 06-10-06 01:16 PM:

Quote from SethArb:

lets have a trader contest ... two traders on ET one using

"JACK H" methods against the others "Woody CCI" method

and see who has the best return and least drawdown after a

month ...

I've challenged Jack many times but he won't take me up on it under conditions where the entries and exits can't be fudged. What does that tell you? My offer's still open.

Posted by Trader666 on 06-10-06 01:22 PM:

Quote from oddiduro:

And the purpose of this would be??

The purpose of a trading contest would be CREDIBILITY

Posted by nononsense on 06-10-06 02:59 PM:

Quote from oddiduro:

And the purpose of this would be??

Oddi,

What are you doing in Jack's threads?
You never answered my question. I never discovered anything in your posts explaining or adding to Jack's ramblings.

In fact, to make a LOOOOONG story short, why not you, Oddi, being Jack's stand-in for the proposed Trader666 trading contest. I'm 100% convinced that it won't make any difference in the final result.
For once Oddi, ya got the chance of your life to prove yourself as a worthy disciple of that genius, incomprehensible to the few.

nononsense

__________________
Trend Finding is Edge Finding and Edge Finding is Trend Finding
nononsense's axiom

Posted by Chicken Little on 06-10-06 03:26 PM:

Here is a summary of my operating assumptions on two bar channels If these assumptions are wrong, now is when I need to fix them.

Posted by oddiduro on 06-10-06 04:43 PM:

Quote from Bearbelly:

I forgot to include the chart.

Good question.

1. Use a channnel offset. There are many ways to do this, choose whatever is comfortable for you.

2. Wait for a second close outside of the channel. This is what classical TA would suggest.

__________________
Once you get a good understanding of your craft, all the masters say the same things in different languages.

Posted by oddiduro on 06-10-06 04:45 PM:

Quote from Chicken Little:

Here is a summary of my operating assumptions on two bar channels If these assumptions are wrong, now is when I need to fix them.

This will do at first glance. Let's see how it plays out in the learning process.

Best Regards
Oddi

__________________
Once you get a good understanding of your craft, all the masters say the same things in different languages.

Posted by Chicken Little on 06-10-06 11:02 PM:

Now the question is how does the trader operate within the channels ?
Here are some channels posted by JH with trade locations notated by the yellow dot.

Oddi:
Would you please explain what triggers the trade at the places marked by the blue circles if you know ?

Posted by oddiduro on 06-11-06 03:33 AM:

Quote from Chicken Little:

Now the question is how does the trader operate within the channels ?
Here are some channels posted by JH with trade locations notated by the yellow dot.

Oddi:
Would you please explain what triggers the trade at the places marked by the blue circles if you know ?

Trade triggers are defined by correct vol and indicator readings.

__________________
Once you get a good understanding of your craft, all the masters say the same things in different languages.

Posted by steve46 on 06-11-06 05:37 AM:

I think many of us would like to know why all the negative comments from a person who obviously couldn't be bothered to learn the basic rule set?

Steve

Posted by nononsense on 06-11-06 02:25 PM:

Jack,
Won't you think it's about time you rise from your but to calm down these heated discussions?

Make a few trades against Trader666 and reign like the king of ET.

Given your unbelievable amount of pages at ET's - some think perfectly useless crap - you owe it to all of us to do something about this.

As you know yourself, lill' Oddi is of no use in all this.

CREDIBILITY

__________________
Trend Finding is Edge Finding and Edge Finding is Trend Finding
nononsense's axiom

Posted by Chicken Little on 06-11-06 03:43 PM:

Quote from oddiduro:

Trade triggers are defined by correct vol and indicator readings.

It seems to me that JH picked out some trades that are not logically explained by constructing channels or using indicators. Trades 3 & 5 lie on bar extremes which coincide with a previously drawn trendline. That seems a logical place to trade and is a reasonable explanation for why those trades would have occurred there. Trades 1,2 & 4 lie at a bar extreme not on a previously drawn trendline. Since indicators are usually calculated on bar closings, they will never indicate a bar extreme exit unless the bar closes there. Points 1,2 and 4 do not have such bar closings. And on this chart there are no volume or indicators anyway. Unless someone explains how these trades occur at bar extremes, I think its reasonable to conclude that the trades were picked with the benefit of hindsight.

Posted by oddiduro on 06-11-06 04:20 PM:

Quote from Chicken Little:

It seems to me that JH picked out some trades that are not logically explained by constructing channels or using indicators. Trades 3 & 5 lie on bar extremes which coincide with a previously drawn trendline. That seems a logical place to trade and is a reasonable explanation for why those trades would have occurred there. Trades 1,2 & 4 lie at a bar extreme not on a previously drawn trendline. Since indicators are usually calculated on bar closings, they will never indicate a bar extreme exit unless the bar closes there. Points 1,2 and 4 do not have such bar closings. And on this chart there are no volume or indicators anyway. Unless someone explains how these trades occur at bar extremes, I think its reasonable to conclude that the trades were picked with the benefit of hindsight.

CL, you asked a simple question, and I gave you a simple answer.
Now, I am not really concerned with going up the road that you are trying to go. If you believe the trades were selected with the benefit of hindsight, that's fine with me. I really don't care to that degree. Jack teaches a lot of things that have to be used as an integrated system. For those that can do that, money is made. For those that cannot do that, they should try something else. There are many ways to extract money from the market, and it is becoming clear to me that Jack's way of explaining market behavior may not be for you. That does not make you dumb, nor does understanding what Jack is saying make any of us smart. Sometimes things just do not resonate with people.

There is another nice system that uses keltner channels and a chaikin oscillator. Bill Williams uses a MACD and an Elliot Wave combination. WDGann uses confluence points between price and time. Connie Brown uses RSI and a stochastic of the RSI as far as I can tell. There is also a good thread about trading hammers.

Maybe Jack is not for you CL, I detect that you are more interested in being advarsarial, and I am finally growing weary of playing the good samaritan. If you wish to continue to learn Jack's methods, I must insist that you gather a baseline of information regarding the methods, put on some real time trades and then we can do after action reports on your trading day.

Best Regards
Oddi

__________________
Once you get a good understanding of your craft, all the masters say the same things in different languages.

Posted by Chicken Little on 06-11-06 06:03 PM:

Quote from oddiduro:

CL, you asked a simple question, and I gave you a simple answer.
Now, I am not really concerned with going up the road that you are trying to go. If you believe the trades were selected with the benefit of hindsight, that's fine with me. I really don't care to that degree. Jack teaches a lot of things that have to be used as an integrated system. For those that can do that, money is made. For those that cannot do that, they should try something else. There are many ways to extract money from the market, and it is becoming clear to me that Jack's way of explaining market behavior may not be for you. That does not make you dumb, nor does understanding what Jack is saying make any of us smart. Sometimes things just do not resonate with people.

There is another nice system that uses keltner channels and a chaikin oscillator. Bill Williams uses a MACD and an Elliot Wave combination. WDGann uses confluence points between price and time. Connie Brown uses RSI and a stochastic of the RSI as far as I can tell. There is also a good thread about trading hammers.

Maybe Jack is not for you CL, I detect that you are more interested in being advarsarial, and I am finally growing weary of playing the good samaritan. If you wish to continue to learn Jack's methods, I must insist that you gather a baseline of information regarding the methods, put on some real time trades and then we can do after action reports on your trading day.

Best Regards
Oddi

Jack showed a chart with very advantageous trade points marked. In fact every trade is a bar extreme. On the chart he notes that no trade requires any wash action at all. Yes there are many ways to trade successfully. I know and practice a few of them. I have never known of a method which picks so many perfect trades. Jack says using channels in a logical manner will produce that result. In fact here is his quote from the beginners rocket thread to me about using channels and specifically referring to the chart I have been using on this thread:

"attached is the graphic with channels and trades annotated.

This illustrates the advantage of annotating channel ASAP and being able to see each and every FTT that begins the new channel while inside of the existing channel.

This concept which is foreign to you is like changing trading skills from night into day.

You definitely do not know how to draw channels before or after the fact.

All trades were longer than any of your posted stuff with one exception.

These trades have you IN the market about all of the time.

you can see that for each of your trades noted that you said you did, there are several trades accomplished with the use of three tools:

1. projecting channels to see:

2. The FTT that starts the next channel.

3. Reversing on each FTT.

Note very well the risk of reversing (taking profits and reentering simultaneously. see how many times after a reversal that you have to exit to have a wash. Can you even get wash trades to work if you are reversing on FTT's?

What would it be like if you had to do a drill that said do washes where all entries are on FTT's?

how hard is it to draw channels using two adjacent bars and project?

How hard is it to reverse on a FTT within the channel you have drawn?

How hard is it to wash after an entry on a FTT? IMPOSSIBLE!!!!!

ROCKETS ARE SIMPLY FAST PACED CHANNELS OF THE SHORTEST DURATION OF THE TRADING FRACTAL."

"If a person trades price only and wants to limit himself he can use this chart as a sufficient data set to produce a mechanical system that spits out a multiple of the daily high low."

That is the road I am going up.

Oddiduro, let me ask this another way :

What identifies a point JH has marked as the FTT in that channel before the bar has ended?

Isn't it logically required that a FAILURE is given the entire bar to develop before it is pronounced a FAILURE ? Until the bar is over anything can happen.

If you are just plain weary of this, no problem.
Thanks

Posted by oddiduro on 06-12-06 12:19 AM:

Question :What identifies a point JH has marked as the FTT in that channel before the bar has ended?

Question: Isn't it logically required that a FAILURE is given the entire bar to develop before it is pronounced a FAILURE ? Until the bar is over anything can happen.

Answer: Prorata Volume.

__________________
Once you get a good understanding of your craft, all the masters say the same things in different languages.

Posted by Chicken Little on 06-12-06 12:31 AM:

Quote from oddiduro:

Question :What identifies a point JH has marked as the FTT in that channel before the bar has ended?

Question: Isn't it logically required that a FAILURE is given the entire bar to develop before it is pronounced a FAILURE ? Until the bar is over anything can happen.

Answer: Prorata Volume.

from grob109: "If a person trades price only and wants to limit himself he can use this chart as a sufficient data set to produce a mechanical system that spits out a multiple of the daily high low."

This chart doesn't show volume. And if it did, it would be 5 minute volume, not pro rata. And JH mentions in the above post that price only is considered.
But thanks for your response. It doesnt seem likely, but only input from JH will move this forward to reproduce the trading as he has shown. Otherwise I will have to believe its a fine example of people fooling themselves with charts at the end of the day marking spots where they "would have" traded.

Posted by steve46 on 06-12-06 12:44 AM:

Quote from oddiduro:

CL, you asked a simple question, and I gave you a simple answer.
Now, I am not really concerned with going up the road that you are trying to go. If you believe the trades were selected with the benefit of hindsight, that's fine with me. I really don't care to that degree. Jack teaches a lot of things that have to be used as an integrated system. For those that can do that, money is made. For those that cannot do that, they should try something else. There are many ways to extract money from the market, and it is becoming clear to me that Jack's way of explaining market behavior may not be for you. That does not make you dumb, nor does understanding what Jack is saying make any of us smart. Sometimes things just do not resonate with people.

There is another nice system that uses keltner channels and a chaikin oscillator. Bill Williams uses a MACD and an Elliot Wave combination. WDGann uses confluence points between price and time. Connie Brown uses RSI and a stochastic of the RSI as far as I can tell. There is also a good thread about trading hammers.

Maybe Jack is not for you CL, I detect that you are more interested in being advarsarial, and I am finally growing weary of playing the good samaritan. If you wish to continue to learn Jack's methods, I must insist that you gather a baseline of information regarding the methods, put on some real time trades and then we can do after action reports on your trading day.

Best Regards
Oddi

So if I hear you right, you are asking Chicken Parts to do some of his own homework.

Why should he do that. After all, that would take effort and persistence and what would he do if he started to make money.
Then his whole agenda is screwed.

Be careful Oddi, no good deed.....

I have to add, that I don't remember anyone extending themself as much as you have just now. I think you have been very generous and patient with your time and advice.

Steve

Posted by Chicken Little on 06-12-06 12:46 AM:

Quote from steve46:

So if I hear you right, you are asking Chicken Parts to do some of his own homework.

Why should he do that. After all, that would take effort and persistence and what would he do if he started to make money.
Then his whole agenda is screwed.

Be careful Oddi, no good deed.....

Steve

Asking questions is not "homework" ?

What are you adding to this thread ?

Posted by HoustonMark on 06-12-06 01:28 AM:

Quote from Chicken Little:

Asking questions is not "homework" ?

What are you adding to this thread ?

He is adding plenty as did Oddi.

Some things never change...give me a method I can understand in a half a day that will make me rich...if you can't, you must be a charlatan...

What a load of elite losers...certainly not traders.....

My favorite....trade real time and prove you can trade....for nothing......why should anyone who has offered a method (for free) feel the need to prove anything? Because you insist???...haha...get a life....

Why anyone that really can trade frequents this board is beyond me...cyber soap opera is overstatement....

Spend the time you spend on this board picking a method and studying same....you may find it useful or you may find it doesn't suit you.....you will have learned something regardless of the outcome....

More time studying markets/methods and less time dreaming up witty replies on boards such as this MAY be the answer.....

Posted by oddiduro on 06-12-06 01:39 AM:

Quote from Chicken Little:

This chart doesn't show volume. And if it did, it would be 5 minute volume, not pro rata. And JH mentions in the above post that price only is considered.
But thanks for your response. It doesnt seem likely, but only input from JH will move this forward to reproduce the trading as he has shown. Otherwise I will have to believe its a fine example of people fooling themselves with charts at the end of the day marking spots where they "would have" traded.

I have had enough CL, if this were a collegiate environment the professor would have little else to do with you. You are not serious.

You do not seem willing to do your homework, as steve46 and a few others in PM have pointed out to me. If you do not understand the concept of prorata volume, then I cannot take you any further. You need to remediate this deficit by going back and doing some reading.

If you put on some trades as instructed, we can do some AARs on them. Otherwise, you have not demonstrated in any way that you have an understanding of fundamentals.

When you can show an understanding of fundamentals, then we can go forward.

There seems to be an overwhelming opinion that you are not here to learn, why is that?

Best Regards
Oddi

__________________
Once you get a good understanding of your craft, all the masters say the same things in different languages.

Posted by Chicken Little on 06-12-06 01:39 AM:

Quote from HoustonMark:

He is adding plenty as did Oddi.

Some things never change...give me a method I can understand in a half a day that will make me rich...if you can't, you must be a charlatan...

What a load of elite losers...certainly not traders.....

My favorite....trade real time and prove you can trade....for nothing......why should anyone who has offered a method (for free) feel the need to prove anything? Because you insist???...haha...get a life....

Why anyone that really can trade frequents this board is beyond me...cyber soap opera is overstatement....

Spend the time you spend on this board picking a method and studying same....you may find it useful or you may find it doesn't suit you.....you will have learned something regardless of the outcome....

More time studying markets/methods and less time dreaming up witty replies on boards such as this MAY be the answer.....

What method is offered ? Sell the exact highs and buy the exact lows ?
Yeah, you trade.
What are you adding to the discussion of channel trading ?
I offer a half cent for your two cents.

Posted by Chicken Little on 06-12-06 01:57 AM:

Quote from oddiduro:

I have had enough CL, if this were a collegiate environment the professor would have little else to do with you. You are not serious.

You do not seem willing to do your homework, as steve46 and a few others in PM have pointed out to me. If you do not understand the concept of prorata volume, then I cannot take you any further. You need to remediate this deficit by going back and doing some reading.

If you put on some trades as instructed, we can do some AARs on them. Otherwise, you have not demonstrated in any way that you have an understanding of fundamentals.

When you can show an understanding of fundamentals, then we can go forward.

There seems to be an overwhelming opinion that you are not here to learn, why is that?

Best Regards
Oddi

How can you claim that pro rata volume has anything to do with the charts JH posted ? They are 5 minute charts with no volume. HE says ONLY price is considered. It reminds me of the "two pair" tool. Every top and every bottom is characterized by the two pair. But so is every middle and other points in between.
Are you telling me that you routinely make trades as he posted in the ES using pro rata volume ?
Answer or not, I understand you are checking out and I thank you for your extending me the courtesy of the replies you offered. Good trading to you Oddi.

Posted by Chicken Little on 06-12-06 02:12 AM:

Quote from HoustonMark:

He is adding plenty as did Oddi.

Some things never change...give me a method I can understand in a half a day that will make me rich...if you can't, you must be a charlatan...

What a load of elite losers...certainly not traders.....

My favorite....trade real time and prove you can trade....for nothing......why should anyone who has offered a method (for free) feel the need to prove anything? Because you insist???...haha...get a life....

Why anyone that really can trade frequents this board is beyond me...cyber soap opera is overstatement....

Spend the time you spend on this board picking a method and studying same....you may find it useful or you may find it doesn't suit you.....you will have learned something regardless of the outcome....

More time studying markets/methods and less time dreaming up witty replies on boards such as this MAY be the answer.....

JH "revised" a chart I posted with his rendition of "what he woulda done". I didnt go begging him to show me a trading methodology. He made a claim and now I am investigating it. If you aren't prepared to back up your claims , dont make them.

Posted by HoustonMark on 06-12-06 02:12 AM:

Quote from Chicken Little:

What method is offered ? Sell the exact highs and buy the exact lows ?
Yeah, you trade.
What are you adding to the discussion of channel trading ?
I offer a half cent for your two cents.

I offer you the advice that looking to others to make the path easier is not the answer....even if the path is made clear you won't understand it without doing the homework.....

Anyway, sorry I butted in....I will let you guys carry on amusing yourselves....

Posted by tradingbug on 06-12-06 02:28 AM:

Quote from steve46:

I think you have been very generous and patient with your time and advice.

Steve

I agree.

Posted by Chicken Little on 06-12-06 02:38 AM:

Quote from tradingbug:

I agree.

I agree as well.

It was never Oddi's responsibility to validate the claim JH made and the charts he produced.

Posted by TIKITRADER on 03-27-12 09:29 PM:

Jack,

Want to pick up on this thread and go over some channels ?

I will place charts up if you would like to discuss them, and I will stick to the 5 minute chart annotated with channels only from recent days.

Posted by TIKITRADER on 03-27-12 10:11 PM:

Jack, attached here is ES Vol.Pace from January to mid March that was kindly contributed elsewhere from xioxxio
to whom credit goes to for this attachment.

Posted by ocean5 on 03-27-12 11:12 PM:

How could DU be 2 and VDU 13?

Posted by ocean5 on 03-27-12 11:17 PM:

this stat is useless as tits on a boar...

Posted by TIKITRADER on 03-28-12 02:39 PM:

Quote from ocean5:

this stat is useless as tits on a boar...

ridiculous post. udder bullsh*t
no such thing as useless t*ts

now, let's get back to channels

Posted by TIKITRADER on 03-30-12 11:02 PM:

I would really like to pick up on this if you are up for some charts annotated with intra day channels.
I will do the work if you are up for commentary on the charts.

Posted by ocean5 on 03-30-12 11:06 PM:

Quote from TIKITRADER:

I would really like to pick up on this if you are up for some charts annotated with intra day channels.
I will do the work if you are up for commentary on the charts.

Forget about the channels.They are just slope in the direction.By now,you should see them without drawing,with your eyes wide shut

Posted by TIKITRADER on 03-30-12 11:54 PM:

Quote from ocean5:

Forget about the channels.They are just slope in the direction.By now,you should see them without drawing,with your eyes wide shut

I enjoy annotating charts and posting them.
Even if Jack disappears for good , this party is going to last a few more decades and get wilder with time ...hahahahaa

Posted by ocean5 on 03-31-12 12:53 AM:

Posted by TIKITRADER on 03-31-12 01:18 AM:

Quote from ocean5:.

is this today's chart ?

ok, thanks for posting and like your style

Posted by ocean5 on 03-31-12 01:58 AM:

Quote from TIKITRADER:

is this today's chart ?

ok, thanks for posting and like your style

I like this guy`s annotation.Look at the wrist gauntlet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TA2I...feature=related

what the hell are you.......

Posted by TIKITRADER on 03-31-12 02:09 PM:

The Annotatinator... I'll be back

Posted by ocean5 on 04-01-12 11:39 AM:

Quote from oddiduro:

Okay CL...

I took you off of ignore to try this one more time. Why? Because Jack made us promise to try to help others once we "got it".

So, what exactly are you trying to grip by starting this thread?

Yes Oddi,i've spoken my piece too,was trying to pass it a bit further.Who got it got it,who don't - do the drills!

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