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Top 30 traders under 30
This is only 1 of them (my favorite, LOL).
30 Under 30
We polled the world's trading community to come up with the best young talent currently conquering global markets.
By: Imogen Rose-Smith , A.D. Barber
Issue: August/September 2005 , Page 70
________________________________________
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"If I'm having a bad day, you literally have to pull me out of my seat. I don't like to give up."
The Best Young Traders in the World
Oh, to be young and a trader.
Trader Monthly hereby introduces our inaugural "30 Under 30" ranking, profiling some of the fastest-ascending traders working today in a wide range of asset classes and arenas, all 30 years old or younger. We've put our ears to the ground to find out who the trading superstars of tomorrow are. In the process, we found many young traders already making a name for themselves today.
Some young turks, boasting Ivy League pedigrees, come from a long line of securities-market mavens, while others never even finished college. But all the traders you’re about to meet have one thing in common: tremendous upside potential.
Not surprisingly, we found candidates in the ever-expanding ranks of the hedge-fund world, but that's not the only hot zone where you'll find young trading talent. From prop desks to the pits, youth is not wasted on this crop, any of whom could be a billionaire by 40 -- or, then again, they could be belly up and bust. But we, for one, are long the prospects of the group you’re about to meet.
For the full text of this article, including traders' biographies, please see the August/September issue of Trader Monthly magazine.
________________________________________
Darren Clifford
Age: 26
Firm: PairCo
City: Kelowna, British Columbia
Trades: Equity
When a big time job at a prestigious Wall Street bank didn’t pan out, Darren Clifford, who had just received his master’s degree from Smon Fraser University, was forced to reevaluate his options.
His timing – it was the summer of 2002 – might have been inauspicious. Tired of waiting for financial services recruiting to pick up post 9/11, Clifford turned to Bright Trading. Training under the Las Vegas – based prop legends Don and Bob Bright, he would eventually cofound his own pairs-trading firm, PairCo, a Bright affiliate. Clifford, along with his partner, Rob Friesen, oversees 40-plus traders. Not being willing to wait for Wall Street to find him has certainly paid off. He will make an estimated $350,000 from trading this year.
He as also brought his family onboard. His father and brother both of whom had been working in the family’s moving business, are Bright traders. “Even my mom was trading for a while.” Clifford says, though she recently gave it up.
Ever the good son, Clifford took his parents to Cancun for vacation this year. But his mother wouldn’t necessarily approve of everything this budding entrepreneur does. His out-of-office activities include “scuba diving, skydiving and skiing – anything with a bit of rush to it.”
All the best to Darren and Rob, good job!!
Don
__________________
Don Bright (not an alias)
http://www.stocktrading.com
Don,
Where do I sign up? I too want to be on that list one day.
If prop shop is the way to go, why should people still want to work in Goldman Sach? It is much easier, isn't it?
__________________
Before you know how to use a stop loss, you don't know how to trade.
ultimately you're going to have to come up with your own trading strategy that suits you, not something that someone gives you.
Some people become socialist after they've made their money. It's a great device for inhibiting competition.
Quote from 0008:
If prop shop is the way to go, why should people still want to work in Goldman Sach? It is much easier, isn't it?
Wait a minute. The guy's gonna make $350k this year and he's considered one of the top 30 under 30? I thought such a "prestigious" list would require a minimum of a few million.
It's probably similar to the PGA money list -- The top ten make 80% of the money and the rest fight for scraps! 
Quote from HotTip:
Wait a minute. The guy's gonna make $350k this year and he's considered one of the top 30 under 30? I thought such a "prestigious" list would require a minimum of a few million.
It's probably similar to the PGA money list -- The top ten make 80% of the money and the rest fight for scraps!
__________________
"There is a whole new breed of stuntman. They're younger, stronger, tougher than us. They don't take pills, they don't drink, they don't do shots. They use little pocket calculators. If we don't watch out, they're going to blow us right out of town" -Hooper
350k? No way would you be on the top 30 under 30. There are a lot of young highly successful traders out there. Don just doesn't ever see them considering the avg age of his traders is 50+.
xbrxx
I was thinking the 350k was quite low. My first thought was, are times really that bad? (I don't think they are.) But, to be in the "top 30" with only an estimated 350k is sad.
..
Can anyone post the full list?
Re: ..
Quote from speedboy:
Can anyone post the full list?
....
thanks.
23, 26...dang I wish I had gone this route back then. Excellent for all of them, I hope they all keep their heads in the game for the long haul!
And, one of them has taken the time and interest for the past two years to make some quality posts here on Elite Trader.
Quote from taclander:
23, 26...dang I wish I had gone this route back then. Excellent for all of them,
I hope they all keep their heads in the game for the long haul!
I thought I would bring a dose of reality to this post, and try not to discourage any of my friends in the NYC area. There are simply no jobs anymore on "Wall Street" that pay "unbelievable" amounts of money any more. (Of course there are a very "few" - but around 10% of the number in the 1990's).
Making over $300K at any age is pretty good for any independent trader who doesn't have to share his $$ with anyone, punch a clock, report to snotty bosses, and keep checking their email for a pink slip.
I have quite a number of friends at GS, and if they can make $250K per year, they are in the top 20%.
I had nothing to do with determining who did and who didn't make either this list (Darren = $350K), or my brother on the top 100 (Bob = $18Million from personal trading)...I posted both to simply show that the new generation, when given the training and capital can do well, and that we old guys can still cut the mustard (LOL).
Darren and Rob financially back 40+ traders within our organization, and they derive profits from that venture as well....a good entrepreneur will not sit on their laurels nor "expect" to keep making money the same way....they constantly look to expand their horizons.
BTW, I think that Magnus Greaves has really done well with the new magazine...and, yes, I was a bit doubtful at first (sorry Magnus)....his sale of MacFutures to Refco was done at just the right time, and his association with Rich Blake (whom I have been friendly with over the last year or so), has worked well. I wish them all best in this and any other endevours they may pursue.
I see the glass half full for traders of all ages...it takes the right tools and a lot of work, but this helps show that it can be done by anyone.
All the best,
Don
__________________
Don Bright (not an alias)
http://www.stocktrading.com
Very good reply Don. Also note another Elite poster on that list, but haven't seen in awhile is Mark from Velocity futures.
Not looking to start trouble here, but since my original question wasnt answered, I thought I would ask it again.
How does a "trader" know that he is going to make $350k for the year when we are barely into August, let alone whenever the magazine did the interview for this feature article.
Then I realized that Darren Clifford runs "PairCo" and charges $3500 for the seminars. If the magazine were to be honest, it would differentiate between what was actually made trading pairs and what was made conducting seminars. Let's face it, an individual earning a few hundred k a year from seminars could be catagorized into any other number of categories.
__________________
"There is a whole new breed of stuntman. They're younger, stronger, tougher than us. They don't take pills, they don't drink, they don't do shots. They use little pocket calculators. If we don't watch out, they're going to blow us right out of town" -Hooper
Quote from vulture:
Not looking to start trouble here, but since my original question wasnt answered, I thought I would ask it again.
How does a "trader" know that he is going to make $350k for the year when we are barely into August, let alone whenever the magazine did the interview for this feature article.
Then I realized that Darren Clifford runs "PairCo" and charges $3500 for the seminars. If the magazine were to be honest, it would differentiate between what was actually made trading pairs and what was made conducting seminars. Let's face it, an individual earning a few hundred k a year from seminars could be catagorized into any other number of categories.
__________________
Don Bright (not an alias)
http://www.stocktrading.com
I have no doubt that everyone on this list is a good trader. I happen to know that the woman who wrote the article solicited various firms to nominate people for the article. Then, the trader had to agree to be profiled. This is not a scientific survey or even close to being accurate as to title. The title of the article should have been something like 30 good traders under 30. I know of two traders personally who turned it down. Neither wanted the publicity. They did not want their earnings plastered and did not want the ensuing phone calls being solicited to come to the new firm that could offer lower rates. They also did not have an advertising agenda like Darren has with PairCo.
Whoever thinks $350,000 is not a lot is missing the point. There ARE many traders making more, but Don's point that this shows that there are plenty of traders making a living is a good one.
__________________
I could tell without asking she was into the Blues...
Wow!
Making 18M a year still has time to train people?
__________________
Before you know how to use a stop loss, you don't know how to trade.
ultimately you're going to have to come up with your own trading strategy that suits you, not something that someone gives you.
Some people become socialist after they've made their money. It's a great device for inhibiting competition.
Quote from 0008:
Wow!
Making 18M a year still has time to train people?
__________________
Don Bright (not an alias)
http://www.stocktrading.com
Re: Top 30 traders under 30
Quote from Don Bright:
This is only 1 of them (my favorite, LOL).
30 Under 30
We polled the world's trading community to come up with the best young talent currently conquering global markets......
)
Re: Re: Top 30 traders under 30
Quote from BSAM:
No offense, Don, but who really gives a rats ass? Now if we could see the top 30 female traders under 30 in a pair of high heels, that might be a little more interesting/
appealing/motivating to most of us. (And I'm sure would sell a lot more magazines!
__________________
Don Bright (not an alias)
http://www.stocktrading.com
Re: Re: Re: Top 30 traders under 30
Quote from Don Bright:
I'm here to serve your wishes.
(maybe not all traders, but.....)
http://www.traderdaily.com/dater/search.html
Don
A norwegian guy, Erik Aas, 32 years has the following
audited results in his onemancompany:
2004 18 million Usd.
2003 18 million Usd
2002 10 million Usd
He has earned the money by trading futures
on electrical power via Nord Pool, an exchange
for trading electrical power.
He refuses to give any comments to the press.
Re: Top 30 traders under 30
Quote from Don Bright:
he would eventually cofound his own pairs-trading firm, PairCo, a Bright affiliate. Clifford, along with his partner, Rob Friesen, oversees 40-plus traders. Not being willing to wait for Wall Street to find him has certainly paid off. He will make an estimated $350,000 from trading this year.
Re: Re: Top 30 traders under 30
Quote from spect8or:
"eventually cofound". As in like, what, about 6 months after beginning trading? I guess the kid's no fool. Why risk your future actually trading money when you can tric...er teach others to do so?
I remember this kid giving a talk at Bright Vegas once. Yeah, a lot smarter than your typical Bright trader deadhead/bored retiree, I'll give him that much. I guess his boss in Vancouver saw the potential too, which is why they began their "pair trading firm". As anyone who's been around the block before will tell you, these strategies don't actually amount to a whole lot. Lol. Like, he was describing it once, making it sound a whole lot sounder than it was, but the gist of it was you just keep adding to the pair until it eventually goes your way. Seriously. And the funny bit, this other Bright guy, who Bob (I think) was waxing poetic about, jumps in and goes, "yeah, yeah, I love it - 'cos if it's not going your way, you just keep adding". Yeah, brilliant. (The dude had made $200k the previous year, and was the darling of the moment).
__________________
Don Bright (not an alias)
http://www.stocktrading.com
Re: Re: Re: Top 30 traders under 30
Quote from Don Bright:
Maybe you might think about keeping up with reality, these guys have spent zillions of hours with programming and modifying strategies....what you mention hasn't been done in years.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Top 30 traders under 30
Quote from spect8or:
Thank you, Don, for this admission that the dangerous strategies I speak of were at one time recommended and cheered by yourself, your brother and influentinal traders at your firm. It's refreshing to hear such forthrightness from you.
__________________
Don Bright (not an alias)
http://www.stocktrading.com
I'd just like to point out that the article title is ridiculous...
NONE of the top traders under 30 are going to the press to talk about how much money they are making, because they all know the same thing. Their edge is fragile, and the longer they keep it a secret, the longer they can make money.
- The New Guy
Quote from thenewguy:
I'd just like to point out that the article title is ridiculous...
NONE of the top traders under 30 are going to the press to talk about how much money they are making, because they all know the same thing. Their edge is fragile, and the longer they keep it a secret, the longer they can make money.
- The New Guy
__________________
Don Bright (not an alias)
http://www.stocktrading.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from thenewguy:
I'd just like to point out that the article title is ridiculous...
NONE of the top traders under 30 are going to the press to talk about how much money they are making, because they all know the same thing. Their edge is fragile, and the longer they keep it a secret, the longer they can make money.
- The New Guy
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Magnus Greaves is the owner of the magazine, I'm sure he would appreciate your feedback.
Don
Quote from thenewguy:
Sorry, didn't mean to come across as bashing the article. It's great to see some young guys doing so well. And I suppose the title "30 traders under 30 who are doing very well" probably wouldn't sell as many copies... lol.
The few traders I've met who are much more profitable than the one mentioned sleep with one eye open, lock all doors, and tell people they don't make anywhere near as much as they do... is my only point. Of course, I've only met a couple at that level... they're surprisingly hard to find! lol.
- The New Guy
__________________
"There is a whole new breed of stuntman. They're younger, stronger, tougher than us. They don't take pills, they don't drink, they don't do shots. They use little pocket calculators. If we don't watch out, they're going to blow us right out of town" -Hooper
Cant tell if you are describing successful traders or guys making methamphetamines in their gutted shanty's...
Quote from Newatthis:
I have no doubt that everyone on this list is a good trader. I happen to know that the woman who wrote the article solicited various firms to nominate people for the article. Then, the trader had to agree to be profiled. This is not a scientific survey or even close to being accurate as to title. The title of the article should have been something like 30 good traders under 30.
I know of two traders personally who turned it down. Neither wanted the publicity. They did not want their earnings plastered and did not want the ensuing phone calls being solicited to come to the new firm that could offer lower rates. They also did not have an advertising agenda like Darren has with PairCo.
Whoever thinks $350,000 is not a lot is missing the point. There ARE many traders making more, but Don's point that this shows that there are plenty of traders making a living is a good one.
__________________
murray t turtle,nickname,not an alias
That is amazing... I would have considered Nord Pool a more obscure exchange and thus tough to make money.
May I ask how you know these stats, given this trader doesn't give interviews?
Quote from kalinka:
A norwegian guy, Erik Aas, 32 years has the following
audited results in his onemancompany:
2004 18 million Usd.
2003 18 million Usd
2002 10 million Usd
He has earned the money by trading futures
on electrical power via Nord Pool, an exchange
for trading electrical power.
He refuses to give any comments to the press.
Quote from vulture:
Not looking to start trouble here, but since my original question wasnt answered, I thought I would ask it again.
How does a "trader" know that he is going to make $350k for the year when we are barely into August, let alone whenever the magazine did the interview for this feature article.
Then I realized that Darren Clifford runs "PairCo" and charges $3500 for the seminars. If the magazine were to be honest, it would differentiate between what was actually made trading pairs and what was made conducting seminars. Let's face it, an individual earning a few hundred k a year from seminars could be catagorized into any other number of categories.
Quote from kalinka:
A norwegian guy, Erik Aas, 32 years has the following
audited results in his onemancompany:
2004 18 million Usd.
2003 18 million Usd
2002 10 million Usd
He has earned the money by trading futures
on electrical power via Nord Pool, an exchange
for trading electrical power.
He refuses to give any comments to the press.
A better question is why isn't he on "Elite" Trader?
Quote from MichaelJ:
That is amazing... I would have considered Nord Pool a more obscure exchange and thus tough to make money.
May I ask how you know these stats, given this trader doesn't give interviews?
Quote from kalinka:
A norwegian guy, Erik Aas, 32 years has the following
audited results in his onemancompany:
2004 18 million Usd.
2003 18 million Usd
2002 10 million Usd
He has earned the money by trading futures
on electrical power via Nord Pool, an exchange
for trading electrical power.
He refuses to give any comments to the press.
Intersting to read the member list for nordpool, de shaw and tudor investments are on the us member list.
Quote from kalinka:
A norwegian guy, Erik Aas, 32 years has the following
audited results in his onemancompany:
Quote from MichaelJ:
May I ask how you know these stats, given this trader doesn't give interviews?
Quote from syrre:
His name is Einar, and he is 34 years old.
This info for norwegian taxpayers is public, and you can search it on the web. It has become a popular sport in norway to check up what your neighbour is making a year. I think this is so stupid, because it is a private matter between each taxpayer and the tax office only, not the public.
__________________
Learning is an upward curve
You bet, this place is full of close to communist idiots, and they mabye get their new left-wing goverment elected this year... then Im outta here for the next 4 years.
IF you unfamiliar with Nordpool then you dont have a quality working knowledge of the energy buisiness. Nordpool is truly the first successful power pool in terms fo trading, even more so then PJM.
The money a successful power trader can make dwarfs the money that can be made trading knobs,fits ect. Plus the less mature the market the more opportunity to clean up
Can someone post a chart of a Nordpool market from Bloomberg or Reuters?
I don't know if you guys have ever seen how an electricity desk works but it is pretty wild. Electricity can get out of control. I watched an acquaintance of mine that had made the switch from a spread trader at the Cbot to an electricity desk. They watch Nat Gas all day as well. Stuff was wild. It cannot be bottled or stored ---so when there is a spike---there is a spike. I believe in the states everything is hourly traded. Or something like that, I cannot recall. I would confirm what artis74 is saying. In the case of my friend he is making 10x's the amount of dough (literally) trading that stuff. In fact, many guys that trade multiple markets (like yours truly) are finding that the energies are occupying most of the P section of the PNL.
there is no comparison that you can draw between any market and power. It moves in a non linear fashion, options vols on dailiy options can exceed 300%. A quarter on a a N/Q combo is 9000. Now when it gets realy squirley the spot market trades in $10-$20 clips. The profit potential is truly remarkable as is the loss potential.
Quote from artis74:
there is no comparison that you can draw between any market and power. It moves in a non linear fashion, options vols on daily options can exceed 300%. A quarter on a a N/Q combo is 9000. Now when it gets really squirley the spot market trades in $10-$20 clips. The profit potential is truly remarkable as is the loss potential.
I'm not gonna say they the Pairco guy doesn't make good cheese, but I know a 26 yo personally who brought home 600K from a prop firm this year, after a 50% split.
The guy bought himself a Jeep Liberty to drive, lives in a 1200.00 a month apartment, and pays his Mom's and sister's bills. The only thing he's bought is a Rolex and some Italian sport bike.
He is also the most grounded guy I ever met...you wouldn't be able to pick him out of a crowd of college students.
I know...blah blah blah the point is that Trader's Monthly is a list of people they found and interviewed, not a list of the absolute best traders in the U.S., although some of the top traders are in there.
Great post - always good to hear about other highly productive traders.
Quote from zippie26:
I'm not gonna say the Pairco guy doesn't make good cheese, but I know a 26 yo personally who brought home 600K from a prop firm this year, after a 50% split.
The guy bought himself a Jeep Liberty to drive, lives in a 1200.00 a month apartment, and pays his Mom's and sister's bills. The only thing he's bought is a Rolex and some Italian sport bike.
He is also the most grounded guy I ever met...you wouldn't be able to pick him out of a crowd of college students.
I know...blah blah blah the point is that Trader's Monthly is a list of people they found and interviewed, not a list of the absolute best traders in the U.S., although some of the top traders are in there.
A norwegian guy, Erik Aas, 32 years has the following
audited results in his onemancompany:
2004 18 million Usd.
2003 18 million Usd
2002 10 million Usd
He has earned the money by trading futures
on electrical power via Nord Pool, an exchange
for trading electrical power.
He refuses to give any comments to the press.
__________________
"Success in the markets runs counter to everything we have been taught...and if you want a friend on Wall Street, get a dog"
Quote from NYSEProTrader:
Great post - always good to hear about other highly productive traders.
zippie, you and your friend should meet Darren Clifford. Those who've met or worked with Darren would think you were describing him - except for the fact that he doesn't wear a Rolex nor has an Italian sport bike...
All around nice guy, sharp, multi-tasker, extremely focused and disciplined, makes time to help other serious traders, etc.
Quote from just21:
Intersting to read the member list for nordpool, de shaw and tudor investments are on the us member list.
Darren makes a little trading.
Trading gains versus external revenues
Boss Hog,
To set the record straight I make more from trading then I do from any of my other business ventures. The way that we set up our recruiting is that we only make money when you trade. We emphasis for our traders that they should only make a trade when 'they' feel they will make money. New traders in our firm start out trading 100 share lots and only move up when they have shown a consistent track record. In this fashion I will only make money when a trader is trading more volume and more experienced, but they trader will only trade more volume when they are making money. Bottom line, the incentives are lined up so that I don't make money until my traders are successful. I try my best to be as open and honest about my trading and mentoring as I can be.
Cheers,
Darren
__________________
"Should have, would have, could have are all did not."
www.pairtrader.com
There's a 27yo at PHLX who bagged a little over 6mil staked. He lives in Havertown, PA in his parent's basement.
__________________
"When in doubt, there is no doubt"
Quote from zippie26:
I'm not gonna say they the Pairco guy doesn't make good cheese, but I know a 26 yo personally who brought home 600K from a prop firm this year, after a 50% split.
The guy bought himself a Jeep Liberty to drive, lives in a 1200.00 a month apartment, and pays his Mom's and sister's bills. The only thing he's bought is a Rolex and some Italian sport bike.
He is also the most grounded guy I ever met...you wouldn't be able to pick him out of a crowd of college students.
I know...blah blah blah the point is that Trader's Monthly is a list of people they found and interviewed, not a list of the absolute best traders in the U.S., although some of the top traders are in there.
i agree with other posters that the best traders would not be broadcasting their gains
i have 2 guys in my group that made over 350k last year.....one is 24..the other is 28...and i know of a 30 year old (great friend) who is up over 2 mil this year , another up 500, etc , etc
all equities
u will NOT see their names on that list...ever!
i do think it is cool though to see guys makin 350 k
and guys that dont mind....yes...by all means be proud
also interesting to see what people makin money in.....i def think there would be more OIL names for 2005..haha
but the top of the top are definaly too busy wakin up early and stayin at work late and shivering if anyone knew how much they made
out of the 4 above that are personal friends....the only thing they have in common is one is cheaper than the other
one looks almost homeless (of course he made the most out of al of em)
cheers
d
Quote from artis74:
there is no comparison that you can draw between any market and power. It moves in a non linear fashion, options vols on dailiy options can exceed 300%. A quarter on a a N/Q combo is 9000. Now when it gets realy squirley the spot market trades in $10-$20 clips. The profit potential is truly remarkable as is the loss potential.
Quote from Marsupilami:
Interesting read ! I always thought that there is nothing wilder than the KOSPI...I guess I was wrong
I'm wondering how to get started with trading power, i.e. where to learn about the market, what makes it move and why... ?
Does anyone have any recommendations ?
Thanks,
Marsupilami
__________________
Don Bright (not an alias)
http://www.stocktrading.com
Quote from zippie26:
I'm not gonna say they the Pairco guy doesn't make good cheese, but I know a 26 yo personally who brought home 600K from a prop firm this year, after a 50% split.
The guy bought himself a Jeep Liberty to drive, lives in a 1200.00 a month apartment, and pays his Mom's and sister's bills. The only thing he's bought is a Rolex and some Italian sport bike.
He is also the most grounded guy I ever met...you wouldn't be able to pick him out of a crowd of college students.
I know...blah blah blah the point is that Trader's Monthly is a list of people they found and interviewed, not a list of the absolute best traders in the U.S., although some of the top traders are in there.
What I gained from that article is that these are 30 up and coming traders.. They might not have the biggest profits, but they were voted among their peers to have future potential!!
seems like a good list..........but what are the real stats....how many up days vs down out of 251.....how consistant are they really ......how many positions at all times long and short.....how concentrated are they in any one industry or group......do they hold overnite positions....do they trade every day.....what exactly are their sharp ratios........what is their gross return on leveraged capital........any down weeks.... months....quarters......these are only some of the questions that really need to be answered when examining who is really the best.......m
a trader who is consistantly profitable.......focused ......and risk averse....slowly passes almost all the others ....its lifetime profitabilty that matters......m
This is a great thread and one that I would recommend ever young trader reads.
Realistic expectations in this business are half the battle and let's face it, where can you put up 5k and make 300k in a year.
If your a young trader (less then 3 years in the biz) and you are in the even (just in the Black) then you are already a success and in the top 80%, so congratulations.
I also agree with the fact that many truly successful traders will stay way under the radar for as long as they can it only makes sense, given the nature of the biz.
__________________
If your going to make a living putting odds in your favor, you damn well better know how to calculate them. - Amarillo Slim
Samson
this is joke
if making $350,00 before you are 30 is enough to be on a top 30 list, its going to have to exclude illinois and new york.
this is laughably inaccurate don
bog
For me, this article was life changing. I stumbled across it last year when I was on a lunch break and reading about these young, successful people who were respected in their field really inspired me to persue my interest in trading. I realized that alot of people near my age (20) or slightly older were already well on their way to success and that I needed to get started ASAP if I want to get there while I am young.
Basically it spurred me to start an intensive self-study cirriculum that I am currently in the middle of, studying trading methodologies and styles, strategies, money management, risk management, technical and fundamental analysis, trading psychology, behavioral finance, game theory, and finishing off with getting certifications and licenses while coming up with a trading style that fits my personality while managing risk and optimizing capital allocation, and doing paper trading to test my results, as I don't have much real life capital to work with (yet).
I'd consider myself a somewhat-informed newcomer to the field, and I've talked to many people as I've sought out successful traders and fund managers, but for people in my position who want and need the experience trading, and even all the way down to the successful pro's who are getting great leverage, prop trading seems like one of the better ways to go when you are looking to start trading real money and are undercapitalized. How else would someone like me raise capital with no (real money) track record?
I'm sorry guys.. I don't know why some of you are flaming Don... especially months after the post has been made. He didn't write the article. And now while I don't trade for a living, however you cut it, $350k is still 350k. To me that is a pretty large amount of money. And if your best friend's sister's uncle made eleventy billion last year and sleeps in a ditch, good for him. How has he contributed to the community?
sry for bumping this old thread.
but yea like the guy above, wow this thread has opened my eyes.
i've doing trading and i've heard of stories about prop desks and guys churning out million dollar bonuses....wow.
and its funny the university the coowner of pairs trading is the one i am going to right now lol....and they are in langley cool !
make 350k also can be top trader??? then they should name the magazine after me
Re: Top 30 traders under 30
Quote from Don Bright:
This is only 1 of them (my favorite, LOL).
30 Under 30
We polled the world's trading community to come up with the best young talent currently conquering global markets.
By: Imogen Rose-Smith , A.D. Barber
Issue: August/September 2005 , Page 70
________________________________________
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"If I'm having a bad day, you literally have to pull me out of my seat. I don't like to give up."
The Best Young Traders in the World
Oh, to be young and a trader.
Trader Monthly hereby introduces our inaugural "30 Under 30" ranking, profiling some of the fastest-ascending traders working today in a wide range of asset classes and arenas, all 30 years old or younger. We've put our ears to the ground to find out who the trading superstars of tomorrow are. In the process, we found many young traders already making a name for themselves today.
Some young turks, boasting Ivy League pedigrees, come from a long line of securities-market mavens, while others never even finished college. But all the traders you’re about to meet have one thing in common: tremendous upside potential.
Not surprisingly, we found candidates in the ever-expanding ranks of the hedge-fund world, but that's not the only hot zone where you'll find young trading talent. From prop desks to the pits, youth is not wasted on this crop, any of whom could be a billionaire by 40 -- or, then again, they could be belly up and bust. But we, for one, are long the prospects of the group you’re about to meet.
For the full text of this article, including traders' biographies, please see the August/September issue of Trader Monthly magazine.
________________________________________
Darren Clifford
Age: 26
Firm: PairCo
City: Kelowna, British Columbia
Trades: Equity
When a big time job at a prestigious Wall Street bank didn’t pan out, Darren Clifford, who had just received his master’s degree from Smon Fraser University, was forced to reevaluate his options.
His timing – it was the summer of 2002 – might have been inauspicious. Tired of waiting for financial services recruiting to pick up post 9/11, Clifford turned to Bright Trading. Training under the Las Vegas – based prop legends Don and Bob Bright, he would eventually cofound his own pairs-trading firm, PairCo, a Bright affiliate. Clifford, along with his partner, Rob Friesen, oversees 40-plus traders. Not being willing to wait for Wall Street to find him has certainly paid off. He will make an estimated $350,000 from trading this year.
He as also brought his family onboard. His father and brother both of whom had been working in the family’s moving business, are Bright traders. “Even my mom was trading for a while.” Clifford says, though she recently gave it up.
Ever the good son, Clifford took his parents to Cancun for vacation this year. But his mother wouldn’t necessarily approve of everything this budding entrepreneur does. His out-of-office activities include “scuba diving, skydiving and skiing – anything with a bit of rush to it.”
All the best to Darren and Rob, good job!!
Don
haha - ya you'd be too smart and figure out the gig quick.
On the flip side consider trying to get into a Bahamas outfit with your CFA exam credential. I see alot of ads for those types of jobs on that island.
Re: Top 30 traders under 30
Quote from Don Bright:
_______________________________________
Darren Clifford
Age: 26
Firm: PairCo
City: Kelowna, British Columbia
Trades: Equity
When a big time job at a prestigious Wall Street bank didn’t pan out, Darren Clifford, who had just received his master’s degree from Smon Fraser University, was forced to reevaluate his options.
His timing – it was the summer of 2002 – might have been inauspicious. Tired of waiting for financial services recruiting to pick up post 9/11, Clifford turned to Bright Trading. Training under the Las Vegas – based prop legends Don and Bob Bright, he would eventually cofound his own pairs-trading firm, PairCo, a Bright affiliate. Clifford, along with his partner, Rob Friesen, oversees 40-plus traders. Not being willing to wait for Wall Street to find him has certainly paid off. He will make an estimated $350,000 from trading this year.
He as also brought his family onboard. His father and brother both of whom had been working in the family’s moving business, are Bright traders. “Even my mom was trading for a while.” Clifford says, though she recently gave it up.
Ever the good son, Clifford took his parents to Cancun for vacation this year. But his mother wouldn’t necessarily approve of everything this budding entrepreneur does. His out-of-office activities include “scuba diving, skydiving and skiing – anything with a bit of rush to it.”
All the best to Darren and Rob, good job!!
Don
Sure, chat with Darren, he's a great guy and now has his whole family trading I think.
Don
__________________
Don Bright (not an alias)
http://www.stocktrading.com
Quote from psytrade:
haha - ya you'd be too smart and figure out the gig quick.
On the flip side consider trying to get into a Bahamas outfit with your CFA exam credential. I see alot of ads for those types of jobs on that island.
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