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-- Switching to the NQ... (http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?threadid=241622)
Switching to the NQ...
I was just looking over charts and holy crap... Fills are so much easier on the NQ.
No need to try hassle over getting fills within a couple ticks of the bottom like is required on the ES...
More natural price movement and trending...
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The market is always in a range trade. It just happens that the range is usually moving...
Agree-it is a good contract 
It is a good enough market for beginner as it is a sloppy market, very forgiving if you realize you were wrong and need to get out. But if you don't have ability, it is going to be the same like in any other market, you will lose. Slippage for bigger trader is real bad and you would swear HFT came in, but really could be a bigger trader getting out on stops.
Most of the methods I have designed for this market is rather funny, All signals are generated on ES first and if NQ has approx same distance from like a moving average, entries are made. Cause this market is sloppy for me, patterns that would well for me in ES, can't even find half of them in NQ.
Have fun.
Quote from Handle123:
It is a good enough market for beginner as it is a sloppy market, very forgiving if you realize you were wrong and need to get out. But if you don't have ability, it is going to be the same like in any other market, you will lose. Slippage for bigger trader is real bad and you would swear HFT came in, but really could be a bigger trader getting out on stops.
Most of the methods I have designed for this market is rather funny, All signals are generated on ES first and if NQ has approx same distance from like a moving average, entries are made. Cause this market is sloppy for me, patterns that would well for me in ES, can't even find half of them in NQ.
Have fun.
Regardless of patterns, considering only daily range, payoff multiple, tick size and initial margin, NQ has a higher ROI than ES.
Re: Switching to the NQ...
Quote from RangeTrader:
Switching to the NQ...
LoL, I kind of noticed that before about the /NQ. I was actually planning on still keeping up my /ES charts to cross confirm in certain situations. Generally they trade pretty correlated most of the time, but sometimes they REALLY diverge.
Quote from Handle123:
Most of the methods I have designed for this market is rather funny, All signals are generated on ES first and if NQ has approx same distance from like a moving average, entries are made. Cause this market is sloppy for me, patterns that would well for me in ES, can't even find half of them in NQ.
Have fun.
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The market is always in a range trade. It just happens that the range is usually moving...
Look at my cross comparison of the ES and NQ...
Both the same pattern basically, but the ES is generally cleaner.
I use to use a composite of both the ES, NQ, and TF when trading on time charts to remove market noise. Not exactly possible with vol charts off the bat...
I would have to program a way to integrate each tick each second from each future together to form the composite.
Ill get to it someday probably...
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The market is always in a range trade. It just happens that the range is usually moving...
On to a more medium timeframe cross comparison...
ES First...
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The market is always in a range trade. It just happens that the range is usually moving...
Vs the NQ...
Same exact patterns pretty much. NQ has been a little cleaner on these kind of timeframes recently though it appears.
Not sure who had the balls to buy into close on a Friday, but if you did... Odds are you'll be rewarded.
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The market is always in a range trade. It just happens that the range is usually moving...
Quote from RangeTrader:
Look at my cross comparison of the ES and NQ...
Both the same pattern basically, but the ES is generally cleaner.
I use to use a composite of both the ES, NQ, and TF when trading on time charts to remove market noise. Not exactly possible with vol charts off the bat...
I would have to program a way to integrate each tick each second from each future together to form the composite.
Ill get to it someday probably...
They are no true ashi's. They are my own formula.
Here is the micro-timing TF chart.
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The market is always in a range trade. It just happens that the range is usually moving...
Here is the mid timing chart...
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The market is always in a range trade. It just happens that the range is usually moving...
And, here is the daily-4d.
I have not taken the time to analyze and check over these charts to see if I like the settings. I don't trade the TF currently. The charts look ok with the ES settings.
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The market is always in a range trade. It just happens that the range is usually moving...
Quote from RangeTrader:
They are no true ashi's. They are my own formula.
Here is the micro-timing TF chart.
The TF in my experience follows internals better and trends a bit more logically.
The one thing I don't like about it is it doesn't retrace much. You better be in the right trade if your in the TF! It won't let you out without hitting your stop.
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The market is always in a range trade. It just happens that the range is usually moving...
TF Medium Picture... Simple, logical, beautiful movement...
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The market is always in a range trade. It just happens that the range is usually moving...
Quote from RangeTrader:
The TF in my experience follows internals better and trends a bit more logically.
The one thing I don't like about it is it doesn't retrace much. You better be in the right trade if your in the TF! It won't let you out without hitting your stop.
TF Detailed picture...
Eh, pretty good patterning...
I think ill keep the TF in mind for big trending days. On the big move days the TF loves to outperform the other indices.
NQ is far superior trading on choppy days like today IMO.
I can't believe I traded the ES for so long... The NQ patterns and retraces so nicely...
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The market is always in a range trade. It just happens that the range is usually moving...
Keeping nine chartbooks tuned in for current market conditions and volatility might be a bit overkill...
Just maintaining the tuning on the NQ and ES charts through changing conditions is enough work, lol...
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The market is always in a range trade. It just happens that the range is usually moving...
Quote from RangeTrader:
TF Detailed picture...
Eh, pretty good patterning...
I think ill keep the TF in mind for big trending days. On the big move days the TF loves to outperform the other indices.
NQ is far superior trading on choppy days like today IMO.
I can't believe I traded the ES for so long... The NQ patterns and retraces so nicely...
Yea... I just started to realize that a bit ago. It's a pain in the ass except for during more volatile markets. Once the vix drops down under 24 it can start to become a headache.
I am only going back to it if I ever need the high liquidity. I will however continue to monitor it's technicals because they are pretty key to the overall market.
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The market is always in a range trade. It just happens that the range is usually moving...
Hmm, let me take a guess at which trades you caught... I think you bought at this fifty percent retrace late day as the market was starting to pull together toward close, before the nonsense of the last 30 minutes. I was tempted to buy it on the NQ, but I have been keeping to my rules well lately. No trading last hour, and especially not the last 30 minutes. I do trade upto the last 30 minutes, but not on days like today... End of month/window dressing, etc... No thx!
The only other thing I see that I would consider a trend is the downtrend out of the gate which I am sure you got some of.
In a down-trending day I ONLY buy off support, and hopefully a solid divergence setup off support. I don't really counter trend much anymore though. If I miss the short trade I have to wait like 30-60 minutes for the next one... So, might as well as take a lower odds long setup off of support for a light scalp. Still get impatient waiting for the perfect setup sometimes, Hehe...
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The market is always in a range trade. It just happens that the range is usually moving...
Quote from pma:
Interesting post Handle. I actually see more signals on NQ than ES. Mostly on a 5 minute chart where stops are run,ie failed hammers etc.........
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the world is so certain yet i walk on thin ice.
Ill cyall later. Nice to see there is some "sane" people on this forum. I will try to stay off here until the weekend.
Gonna focus on trading hard the rest of the week. My NQ charts are officially tuned in and ready to roll.
Honestly, I barely looked at my signals today for my few trades... Support, resistance, and trend... All that is needed!!! As long as you only buy off support, and only short off resistance... It's very hard to get trapped and stopped unless the market is trending fast.
Good luck all!
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The market is always in a range trade. It just happens that the range is usually moving...
Quote from shopster:
you would be correct.
es traders can't get off the needle stuck in their arm.
s
Many failed ES traders ply their skills on NQ.
Assuming one knows what they are doing and isn't a large enough player to move the market more than a tick or two , I think CL and TF present the best "bang for buck" meaning comish and spread are the lowest cost vs average daily range .
NQ is a good contract to learn the ropes with if one is new to futures and is dipping there toes in "live" . I used to trade YM and NQ when I started with futures, fun contracts.
Grrr... I don't care for the NQ. Rippy mother. Hard to get a feel for. Got clipped a couple times and ditched it.
Switched back to the ES and nailed a couple, then played the TF through lunch into late day and just nailed it trade after trade...
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The market is always in a range trade. It just happens that the range is usually moving...
I royally suck at holding trades properly... Bit too trigger fingery with market orders.
Gonna switch to OCO tomorrow and try to follow my rules better.
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The market is always in a range trade. It just happens that the range is usually moving...
CL and TF are for advanced trader only. They are fast movers.
The TF is in my opinion one of the most proper futures. It does what it's supposed to. No shenanigans or parabolic moves where they are not supposed to be.
I prefer to hold a trade for less than ten minutes too.
Ok, lets compare two charts... First, here is the trades I made today... With moving averages turned back on.
Quote from KastyG:
CL and TF are for advanced trader only. They are fast movers.
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The market is always in a range trade. It just happens that the range is usually moving...
Then... I replayed the same thing as a sim run at 40x using OCO attached orders... 1x1 Handles. Taking the same trades essentially...
Would have made a lot more money than I did today... Just using OCO orders, and no chase entries! Chase entries are for trending days only... Definitely not trending internals today except for that uptrend.
Even if I had gotten clipped a handle on that chase move, I would have still made more using OCO orders.
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The market is always in a range trade. It just happens that the range is usually moving...
Quote from RangeTrader:
I prefer to hold a trade for less than ten minutes too.
.
I traded the /TF for like six months back in 2009. Different trading system though. The current one I am using was designed for the ES. I am just getting it tuned in for the /TF.
As long as your not counter trending it's very hard to lose on the ES. The TF seems pretty good lately, but as we get more volatility again ill probably go back to the ES.
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The market is always in a range trade. It just happens that the range is usually moving...
Hmmm... I just turned signals back on.
Wow, market conditions are rarely as good as they were today... Signals were timing properly.
Wave counts were a little odd though. Best just to use gut instinct to solve those.
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The market is always in a range trade. It just happens that the range is usually moving...
My order;
1) CL
2) FDAX
3) TF
4) Euro
If you want a simple grinder trade the NG.
I don't really care for the way oil patterns, but the 6E futures are decent...
I prefer having my internals and tick averages that get my mind in sync with the market real fast... So I'm sticking with the index futures. Only takes me about 30 minutes to get a feel for whats going on and what the game of the day. Doesn't take as much focus as the others.
What I love about the TF that annoys me about the ES is... You can always trust the TF. It drops when its supposed to, and it rallies when it's supposed to. It doesn't sit around and dawdle... It retraces with precision too.
No nonsense shenanigans on the TF!!! Never seen it... Honest non manipulated market.
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The market is always in a range trade. It just happens that the range is usually moving...
If you were trend following CL or TF on Friday it does not get any better. The follow through after trend kick back entries was very strong. Between the two contracts, I had 11 trend following trades Friday and only one was a small loss of 10 ticks in the CL.
I never trade the NQ or YM but those contracts should have had numerous opportunities on Friday. Anyone ever trade the s&p mid-cap index?
RangeTrader * I finally figured out what charting you use. Take a look at DAX one night with your template, you will find all kinds of solid entries.
This makes me laugh. Quite trading index futures and move to stocks. NQ is not any better. And get rid of any fancy green and red indicators you got up on your charts. All you need is candlesticks and volume.
Stocks are a joke. You have to pick 3 maximum and each has it's own personality... It takes months to figure out how to trade each one...
Indices at least pattern in the same way for long periods of time... Sometimes even years!
Quote from mastertrader456:
This makes me laugh. Quite trading index futures and move to stocks. NQ is not any better. And get rid of any fancy green and red indicators you got up on your charts. All you need is candlesticks and volume.
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The market is always in a range trade. It just happens that the range is usually moving...
Futures with 60/40 rule is the best by far. There is no way I can make the money in stocks like I do in CL futures, and with the low amount of capital needed.
Quote from RenkoTrades:
...and with the low amount of capital needed.
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HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?
Bud Fox
Wall Street
Are there lot of NQ traders here. I would like to get in touch
I completely disagree. What I can do on a daily basis with a $50,000 futures account is way more efficient than what I could ever do in a stocks account with $50,000. What I can do with a $200,000 futures account deleveraged is even more efficient than what I can do with an equities trading account. I can generate much better ROI with futures than I ever could with stock trading dollar for dollar in the two account types.
Quote from bwolinsky:
Low capital requirements are never the primary benefit of choosing futures products. If you need ridiculously low margins so your $5,000 account doesn't blow out, you shouldn't be trading CL.
On NQ, I've always liked NQ better than ES, but my research shows that is because NQ's dollar value monthly daily average swings have enough range to produce decent income, while ES has very little range most days compared to NQ.
Quote from RenkoTrades:
I completely disagree. What I can do on a daily basis with a $50,000 futures account is way more efficient than what I could ever do in a stocks account with $50,000. What I can do with a $200,000 futures account deleveraged is even more efficient than what I can do with an equities trading account. I can generate much better ROI with futures than I ever could with stock trading dollar for dollar in the two account types.
With broker worries these days, how much I have to have sitting in my brokerage accounts day to day is a very big factor in my opinion.
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HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?
Bud Fox
Wall Street
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