Forums - trade the E-micro EUR/USD M6E ?

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-- trade the E-micro EUR/USD M6E ? (http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?threadid=240971)

Posted by Wallace on 04-17-12 06:30 PM:

trade the E-micro EUR/USD M6E ?

thinking this contract might be better than spot fx for Day-to-Days trading

specs: E-micro EUR/USD M6E CME/Globex 12,500 pip value: 0.0001 / $1.25
margin: overnight: $270.00 daytrade: $100.00
AMP rt comm: $1.99

Oanda margin: 12,500 EUR/USD @ 1.3150 leverage 50:1 = $328.75 margin
Oanda 'comm': spread @ $1.25 per pip

need to use Limit orders due to lower volume ?

Posted by JuniorCTA on 04-17-12 07:02 PM:

You can use market orders if you want to hit/lift bids or offers

Posted by Jack_Larkin on 04-18-12 04:07 AM:

last I checked the micro contracts weren't liquid enough to even consider.. especially compared to spot.

They get a shot in the arm recently?

Posted by southbeach4me on 04-18-12 05:41 AM:

M6E for trading is ok( but a lil risky) if you don't have the money for the larger 6E contract but I would only trade it at its most liquid between 3am- 3pm Eastern(NY Time)

* I highly suggest keeping a chart or DOM open for the 6E to compare the price difference to the M6E so you can keep an eye on disparities between the two when it comes to the last price quoted

Posted by Wallace on 04-18-12 06:28 PM:

I wasn't looking to daytrade the M6E, strictly DtDs trades so I wouldn't be too concerned
about the fill price. Oanda's the largest fx broker and yes the volume of trades they
process is higher especially in the quiet times, however I thought I could more easily
open a second account with AMP for what I wanted to do rather than go to all the
trouble of funding an Oanda account

wanted to add AMP's minimum account size is $500 for the free NinjaTrader with the
CQG feed; see also margins, contract specs etc: http://www.ampfutures.com/

attached are the 6E and M6E 1min charts side by side and you can see the much lower
volume of the M6E, and, a much lower quantity of price bars later in the session -
140 v 116 , and similar price formation but not exact price matching

Posted by southbeach4me on 04-18-12 06:55 PM:

You are aware that the free Ninjatrader platform AMP is offering you is for charting and simulation only. If you want to use Ninja for live trading then you either have to lease it or buy a lifetime license.

Posted by jo0477 on 04-18-12 07:22 PM:

Quote from southbeach4me:

You are aware that the free Ninjatrader platform AMP is offering you is for charting and simulation only. If you want to use Ninja for live trading then you either have to lease it or buy a lifetime license.

That's not true. You get the standard version (or whatever It's called) free for live trading. You need the license for the ATM features, chart trader, etc.

Posted by ddouglas on 04-18-12 08:10 PM:

Quote from Wallace:

similar price formation but not exact price matching

Just watch it live, & you will see everything you need to know.

Price does not match exactly only because there are no executions, and the chart only records executions. The price at which YOU can buy or sell it, however, (the bid/ask) will always be the same as the 6E. Spread is usually 2-3ticks v. 1 in the 6E ($2.50-3.75, & $12.50 respectively).

I have seen many people say it lags the 6E. This tells me two things about them:
1). They have never watched it live, & observed the viability of trading it . .
and
2). They don't recognize obviously good strategiy opportunities when they see them. If it really lags, just buy the lag, & sell when it catches-up! (it always does). Easy-lag-money, right?! If you complain about it lagging - just make free money off the lag!

Unfortunately, it's not possible, because the bid/offer do NOT lag. No market-maker is going to let you take free money because they're leaving stale bids/offers that allow you to capitalize on the lag.

Which makes it a good, viable downsized 6E alternative.

Same is true for M6A, & M6B, too.

Posted by athlonmank8 on 04-18-12 09:46 PM:

Why don't you want to go with Oanda? Probably one of the best currency brokers for the price.

Posted by Pippi436 on 04-19-12 12:17 AM:

So 2.5 ticks spread on average + 1.75 ticks in commissions + questionable liquidity situation, that doesn't sound attractive to me. You shouldn't really pay much more than 1 pip per roundturn (spread + commission). If you are in the trade for a few days the transaction costs probably wont matter that much, i still dont see why you want to pay more than you have to.

Posted by Jack_Larkin on 04-19-12 12:38 AM:

Quote from Wallace:

I wasn't looking to daytrade the M6E, strictly DtDs trades so I wouldn't be too concerned
about the fill price. Oanda's the largest fx broker and yes the volume of trades they
process is higher especially in the quiet times, however I thought I could more easily
open a second account with AMP for what I wanted to do rather than go to all the
trouble of funding an Oanda account

wanted to add AMP's minimum account size is $500 for the free NinjaTrader with the
CQG feed; see also margins, contract specs etc: http://www.ampfutures.com/

attached are the 6E and M6E 1min charts side by side and you can see the much lower
volume of the M6E, and, a much lower quantity of price bars later in the session -
140 v 116 , and similar price formation but not exact price matching

The worse slippage and fills are going to add up over time, even with a long term time horizon. Why make it harder on yourself?

Oanda is a great choice.. don't think it's too much trouble to deal with a 2nd broker, as you should always be using the best tool for the job, especially when the difference can impact your bottom line.

Oanda does have one disadvantage; they widen spreads a lot during non-liquid market hours and during news. It makes news trading nearly impossible with them. (I love them to bits otherwise..great broker.)

So, you're not a US citizen, I'd also suggest Pepperstone's razor account:
https://pepperstone.com/trading-accounts/accounts-types.php
Since their total cost is slightly cheaper than Oanda plus they keep interbank spreads during news (no artificial widening like Oanda.)

If you are a US citizen, your alternatives are a little more limited. MB Trading's EXN account isn't bad, but I'd almost suggest you stick with Oanda in the US.

Posted by Wallace on 04-19-12 03:07 AM:

Oanda:
noted for disconnecting the feed especially during the NFP release

do Not have a Trading Desk ???
sometimes refuse to close a trade !!!
which requires going thru the process of the security question being answered correctly
- remember yours ? - then the rep loading FXTrade entering your account # and closing
your trade
oh yes, and how long did you have to wait when you phoned to hear a live voice ?

what I - in theory - lose in M6E fills, I gain in lower margin and fixed commissions
@ 1.20 - Oanda's minimum, it's $1.50 http://fxtrade.oanda.com/why/spreads/recent
there's no slippage with a Limit Order, entry or exit

NinjaTrader:
the Chart Trader is the pop out/in Basic Entry order entry utility
personally I prefer having one that floats. among other problems with NT is the overly
large menus including the CT/BE. I have 2 NT charts loaded plus MT4 and one BE so on
one 17" crt screen it all takes up a lot of realestate, tho it's usually only the NT charts
I'm looking at when I've got a trade on, and the BE
the BE can be placed anywhere on the screen I want it whereas the paid CT version
it's on the right end of the chart and imo, inconvenient, although a user can still load
a Menu/File/New/Basic Entry instead of using the CT

Posted by ddouglas on 04-19-12 05:34 AM:

If you already have a futures account, the M6E is clearly the better option than opening a forex account just to downsize your leverage.

Not to mention that forex brokers have a well-deserved reputation for corruption, data-feed manipulation, bid-rigging, stop-running, & many, many more nefarious practices.

If you think these practices are limited to a few off-brand, fly-by-night brokers, just search Google for CFTC's 2011 forex dealer lawsuits and reprimands. Virtually every major forex broker admitted to wrongdoing, several paid huge fines for corruption, and much litigation is still pending.

Why bother with it? Just trade Micro-futures, and be done with it. At least you'll be on a regulated exchange, where your orders are actually filled in a real market - not just bucket-shopped in a private transaction by someone whose business model is to screw you.

If you'd rather save that $1.50/RT to trade in a bucket-shop, go ahead. If you want to trade in the real market on a real exchange, then trade futures . .

Posted by Jack_Larkin on 04-19-12 02:43 PM:

Quote from Wallace:

Oanda:
noted for disconnecting the feed especially during the NFP release

do Not have a Trading Desk ???
sometimes refuse to close a trade !!!
which requires going thru the process of the security question being answered correctly
- remember yours ? - then the rep loading FXTrade entering your account # and closing
your trade
oh yes, and how long did you have to wait when you phoned to hear a live voice ?

what I - in theory - lose in M6E fills, I gain in lower margin and fixed commissions
@ 1.20 - Oanda's minimum, it's $1.50 http://fxtrade.oanda.com/why/spreads/recent
there's no slippage with a Limit Order, entry or exit

Err... ok, let's back up a bit.

I personally haven't experienced the issues you just described, nor has many other traders I personally know who use Oanda. I've seen a few people say such things, but more often than not they are just trying to spread fear about the broker. But I don't care to argue about this point, as it's all pointless to banter about... besides, if it was actually an issue that affected people consistently, they wouldn't be in business nor would they be one of the largest FX brokers in the world.

As for the commissions... this is where I think you're missing something.

In futures, commissions are charged on both legs of the trade, while Oanda doesn't do commissions at all and instead just quotes you a spread.

Lets assume the total spread on the micro futures is 1 tick (which we both know is not the case all the time, and often goes to 2 ticks even during liquid times of the day.) You're then paying your futures commission upon entering and exiting the market.

Now think about that.. your commission rate x2 plus the spread is your total cost. One contract's total cost at the best of times = ($1.50 x 2) + $1.25 in spread.... $4.25 for 10k euro exposure.

With Oanda, it's just the spread, they average 1.2 pips to 1.4 pips during liquid times, putting them at $1.3 for 10k euro exposure.

Always look at the total cost of trading... the difference here is huge, and that comes directly out of your pocket.

Margin being 50:1 with Oanda, that makes the amount required to hold a 10k euro/usd position ~$250 USD (it varies slightly on the exchange rate given the position is counted in Euro.)

You're not saving anything in commissions by going with AMP.

You're not getting better leverage by going with AMP.

M6E still has the issue with liquidity which will cost you more over time.

Posted by Jack_Larkin on 04-19-12 02:48 PM:

Quote from ddouglas:

If you already have a futures account, the M6E is clearly the better option than opening a forex account just to downsize your leverage.

Not to mention that forex brokers have a well-deserved reputation for corruption, data-feed manipulation, bid-rigging, stop-running, & many, many more nefarious practices.

If you think these practices are limited to a few off-brand, fly-by-night brokers, just search Google for CFTC's 2011 forex dealer lawsuits and reprimands. Virtually every major forex broker admitted to wrongdoing, several paid huge fines for corruption, and much litigation is still pending.

Great point, do consider the CFTC and NFA's action against brokers:

http://www.nfa.futures.org/basicnet/

Oh wait, notice something?

Oanda doesn't have a single action against them by the CFTC or NFA...

Go ahead, search them...

There are always bad apple brokers, same as in Futures and Equities... heck, there are a bunch of rotten prop firms as well.. but don't put down good brokers because of this. You're needlessly spreading fear.

PS. when you do this for a living, paying nearly less than 1/3rd of the cost to trade each time, over many trades a month, adds up and makes a great point as to why going with an inefficient market center isn't "clearly" the way to go.

Posted by jo0477 on 04-19-12 03:21 PM:

Quote from Jack_Larkin:

As for the commissions... this is where I think you're missing something.

In futures, commissions are charged on both legs of the trade, while Oanda doesn't do commissions at all and instead just quotes you a spread.

Lets assume the total spread on the micro futures is 1 tick (which we both know is not the case all the time, and often goes to 2 ticks even during liquid times of the day.) You're then paying your futures commission upon entering and exiting the market.

Now think about that.. your commission rate x2 plus the spread is your total cost. One contract's total cost at the best of times = ($1.50 x 2) + $1.25 in spread.... $4.25 for 10k euro exposure.

With Oanda, it's just the spread, they average 1.2 pips to 1.4 pips during liquid times, putting them at $1.3 for 10k euro exposure.

Always look at the total cost of trading... the difference here is huge, and that comes directly out of your pocket.

Margin being 50:1 with Oanda, that makes the amount required to hold a 10k euro/usd position ~$250 USD (it varies slightly on the exchange rate given the position is counted in Euro.)

You're not saving anything in commissions by going with AMP.

You're not getting better leverage by going with AMP.

M6E still has the issue with liquidity which will cost you more over time.

You are incorrect regarding commissions. $1.99 is the base rate/contract, RT - flat, all fees in. It is not charged x 2 as per your example. I believe this rate is fairly std for most brokers offering Micros.

Posted by Jack_Larkin on 04-19-12 03:48 PM:

Quote from jo0477:

You are incorrect regarding commissions. $1.99 is the base rate/contract, RT - flat, all fees in. It is not charged x 2 as per your example. I believe this rate is fairly std for most brokers offering Micros.

Thank you. I don't trade micros myself so I was going by what seemed correct given my experience with eminis.

I tried looking it up on AMP's website before posting to double check but couldn't find a listed fee schedule (they just have a forum to request a fee quote when you click on commissions.)

That changes the equation a bit:

$1.25 (1 tick spread) + $1.20 (Wallace's claimed rate) = $2.45 total cost with M6E (or $3.24 total cost with the base rate.)

vs

1.3 average pip spread with Oanda = $1.3 total cost

(This is, of course, assuming we trade during liquid times... off hours can see ~1.8-2 pip spread with Oanda and 2-3 tick spreads with M6E. )

So instead of being 1/3rd the price, it's more like 1/2 the price. You're still saving quite a bit here over futures...

Posted by ddouglas on 04-19-12 05:02 PM:

Quote from Jack_Larkin:You're needlessly spreading fear.

Have a look at this 2011 year-in-review. Keep in mind that it was entirely written by forex industry people from a pro-forex perspective:

http://forexmagnates.com/2011-forex...ry-free-report/

Everything in that review is independently verifiable: the class-action racketeering & corruption lawsuits & all.

Notice the names. None are "bad apples," but most are major, well-recognized industry leaders.

I've nothing bad to say about OANDA - as I know nothing about them. But the forex industry is corrupt, and that fact has never been in question. Not even by the industry itself.

If you believe that OANDA is a reasonably safe place to entrust your trading operations, then go for it. Just recognize that it would be an exception to the rule.

As a general principle, a person wishing to trade at these sizes would be much better served to trade Micro-currency futures. Yes, it would probably cost approximatlely $1 more per-round-trip, but there are many other benefits. Plus, as you get larger, futures are definitely cheaper than forex when trading full-size.

As far as the liquidity goes, the M6E-E7-6E complex is one of the most liquid in the world. Key is: when you move beyond a handful of contracts, move up to the next size. If you want to buy 125,000 Euros without slippage, the 6E is the appropriate size, not the M6E. The M6E is there to allow you to control your position-size according to your needs, purposes, & risk-management plan. You shouldn't experience slippage in any of these contracts if you are trading the appropriate size & using limit orders.

Posted by ddouglas on 04-19-12 05:11 PM:

Also, I've never seen a 1.3pip spread. I would NOT say that that's the industry standard - even for larger sizes. I opened a couple of small forex accounts a couple years ago - just to look into the whole situation, & 3-4pips would be a more typical average once you get past the ad-promises, & get to a live-platform feed. Granted, it's been a couple of years, but I doubt the industry has changed that much.

Besides, does a small spread matter if your broker can just re-quote you after the deal is done?

Posted by Pippi436 on 04-19-12 05:23 PM:

I have actually read the court filing on this racketeering bs case. It has zero substance.

Losing clients sue all the time. Futures brokers too, not only FX firms, you know. This is not specific to FX. Plenty of regulatory action against fcms too.

Posted by Pippi436 on 04-19-12 05:26 PM:

Quote from ddouglas:

Also, I've never seen a 1.3pip spread. I would NOT say that that's the industry standard - even for larger sizes. I opened a couple of small forex accounts a couple years ago - just to look into the whole situation, & 3-4pips would be a more typical average once you get past the ad-promises, & get to a live-platform feed. Granted, it's been a couple of years, but I doubt the industry has changed that much.

Besides, does a small spread matter if your broker can just re-quote you after the deal is done?

1 to 1.5 pips after commission is pretty much standard. For example, IB or Oanda. They dont requote either. But go ahead pay 3 to 4 on CME if you must..

Posted by ddouglas on 04-19-12 05:41 PM:

Quote from Pippi436:

1 to 1.5 pips after commission

I thought there was no commission on forex? Maybe that's why the quotes I see are 3-4pips wide (still have access to forex quotes, and they still are that wide). Maybe it's 1.5 + comm, and 3-4 without?

Either way, it's not significant savings compared to futures (and certainly not 3-4 ticks wide on CME).

Believe what you want to believe about the litigation. If a company settles & admits wrongdoing, I have a hard time believing it's BS lawsuits brought by losing traders.

Some will never be convinced, though, regardless of a mountain of evidence, so we will just have to leave it at that . .

Posted by Wallace on 04-19-12 05:53 PM:

Jack_Larkin: you need to pay a lot more attention to what you're reading before quoting
me incorrectly; and compare apples to apples instead of making up new numbers

specs: E-micro EUR/USD M6E CME/Globex 12,500 pip value: 0.0001 / $1.25
margin: overnight: $270.00 daytrade: $100.00
AMP rt comm: $1.99

Oanda margin: 12,500 EUR/USD @ 1.3150 leverage 50:1 = $328.75 margin
Oanda 'comm': spread @ $1.25 per pip $1.50 Minimum, for 12,500

and later
there's no slippage with a Limit Order, entry or exit 'no slippage' means there's
Nothing to add on to the 'cost' of the trade, I'm filled at That price

Oanda does Not have a Trading Desk
if I need to have a trade closed for me by AMP I have direct access to their Trading Desk
24 hours a day

suggest you read Oanda's own forum as well as here on ET to learn about discon-
nections, and also about people trying to close a trade, think there might also be a
thread about that too here on ET

Posted by stephan31 on 04-19-12 06:14 PM:

Quote from jo0477:

That's not true. You get the standard version (or whatever It's called) free for live trading. You need the license for the ATM features, chart trader, etc.

----------
For any live trading Ninja is not free.

nope

peace

Hedvig

Posted by jo0477 on 04-19-12 06:41 PM:

Quote from stephan31:

----------
For any live trading Ninja is not free.

nope

peace

Hedvig

I'm not sure what to say... I've used the direct edition via AMP/CQG for almost 2 years and I've never paid a dime. I do pay the extra fee RT to have the static DOM but that's it.

Posted by Jack_Larkin on 04-19-12 06:51 PM:

Quote from Wallace:

Jack_Larkin: you need to pay a lot more attention to what you're reading before quoting
me incorrectly; and compare apples to apples instead of making up new numbers

specs: E-micro EUR/USD M6E CME/Globex 12,500 pip value: 0.0001 / $1.25
margin: overnight: $270.00 daytrade: $100.00
AMP rt comm: $1.99

Oanda margin: 12,500 EUR/USD @ 1.3150 leverage 50:1 = $328.75 margin
Oanda 'comm': spread @ $1.25 per pip $1.50 Minimum, for 12,500

and later
there's no slippage with a Limit Order, entry or exit 'no slippage' means there's
Nothing to add on to the 'cost' of the trade, I'm filled at That price

Oanda does Not have a Trading Desk
if I need to have a trade closed for me by AMP I have direct access to their Trading Desk
24 hours a day

suggest you read Oanda's own forum as well as here on ET to learn about discon-
nections, and also about people trying to close a trade, think there might also be a
thread about that too here on ET

I do feel you're not properly accounting the spread cost in M6Es.. but I'm just going to drop it. I mean, apples to apples right?

Clearly you're happy with the micro setup through AMP... and that's cool, I'm just trying to be helpful with your total cost, or at least shedding light on things you might not have considered.

As for the disconnections thing... I've been with Oanda for a few years now.. I haven't had that kinda problem at all. The only issues I've seen were related to their MT4 implementation, which I don't use, as I stick to fxTrade.

Happy Trading!

Posted by stephan31 on 04-19-12 07:04 PM:

Interesting.

I'll check this out some.

peace

Hedvig

p.s. What are your rt's (static superdom) included for

FX Currencies
CL or QM
NQ

?

Posted by jo0477 on 04-19-12 07:16 PM:

Quote from stephan31:

Interesting.

I'll check this out some.

peace

Hedvig

p.s. What are your rt's (static superdom) included for

FX Currencies
CL or QM
NQ

?

I believe its 0.20 RT to use the static DOM. From what I remember, its a licensing fee paid to TT (anyone feel free to jump in here if I'm wrong)

Cheers

Posted by Jack_Larkin on 04-19-12 07:27 PM:

AMP does list a free version of NT on their site that has a bunch of features cut out.

Still, not bad.. and even if you had to lease it for the full feature set NT is one of the few platforms I'd say is worth it.

Posted by stephan31 on 04-19-12 07:30 PM:

Jack,

Right. I only use a static superdom and charting.

No other fancy brackets/auto strategies, etc...

If being charged and extra .20 per rt--if one can lease Ninja for $60.00 per month--@300 roundturns per month then the extra .20 per rt is b.e.

Anything below that and one is saving money IF Amp matches a Ninjatrader commission quote from another brokerage.

peace

Hedvig

Posted by ddouglas on 04-19-12 07:37 PM:

Just for fun, I took this screenshot from TWS at 2:36pm EST today: Full-size futures on the left, Micros on the right.

Edit: That's the bid/ask - I should have said that.

Posted by Pippi436 on 04-19-12 07:39 PM:

I just had a look at CME's micro contracts again. Apparently bid/ask-spread has improved since the last time i checked a few months ago. Looks like its mostly 1 tick now too, in the EuroFX atleast. Used to be pretty bad.

Posted by Wallace on 04-20-12 05:59 PM:

this argument about spread or slippage 'cost' is academic

Market orders can result in a +/- over/under the Last price/trade result depending how
the price may have jumped in the moments after the B/S/C button's been clicked
when a Limit order is used there's no spread involved, one's filled, or not, at that price

with lower volume one either accepts the Market order fill one receives or anticipates
the price and enters a Limit order prior to the price reaching one's order price

the same holds true for fx trades as well as the 125,000 size futures contracts

I've previously posted charts of price moves during the NFP release and when 'large'
orders have been filled. one never knows in advance if a large order's about to enter
the market and the result may see a 20-30 pip range on a 1min bar. I've also posted
a 12K+ ES trade during the last hour of trading that caused no price move except the
next price went 1 tick lower. but the price range can suddenly widen without a 'large'
order being the cause of expanded range. if one happens to have entered a trade at
such times then the result can be very good, or . . .

Posted by Wallace on 04-22-12 09:09 PM:

one thing about fx via Oanda I Will note is that one can trade via Oanda 24/365
but they're not staffed between the Fri C and Sun O

I'm writing this because at 12:30pm PST checking euro price I see in the Oanda MT4
there were a couple of trades made on Saturday, and from the 1.32145 Fri C, the price
has dropped 32 pips

the only problem I have with the 24/365 is sometimes there's a trade on Saturday and
sometimes not, so sometimes there's an 'extra' Daily price bar on the chart, as well as
there being a Sunday price bar
trades on these days of course go thru all timeframes

I suppose if you're a Gannist this doesn't make any difference since I believe Gannists
include weekends and holidays in their analysis, however my analysis is based on the
5 day trading week only, so I use an Alpari NY MT4 demo for analysis

regular Sun/Mon start time for Globex M6E is 3pm PST, errrr, or is it 2pm ???
AMP list 5pm as 'Exhcange Hours'

what I don't know and haven't tested is if there's any +/� difference between the 5 day
v 6/7 or 7 day trading week

price now down to 1.31754

Posted by Jack_Larkin on 04-23-12 01:38 AM:

It's a nice feature to trade over the weekend but most of the time it's not very advantageous to do so. There's often no movement, and when there is (interbank dealing starts earlier than 5pm EST on sunday so you can see price movement as early as noon EST) the spread is too wide (illiquid times) to make anything from it short term. It's not like you can catch someone's order sitting on the inside quote, the quote has to pass through your order, so the wide spread can't be captured either.

What's nice though is being able to enter or exit positions as the fundamentals change in the market. If a war action starts on sunday morning and you know your position will be slaughtered you can flatten out before the rest of the world wakes up.

Posted by Wallace on 04-23-12 11:45 PM:

just thinking about trading the M6E overnight, there is an 'excess' margin available
with which to daytrade

the Oanda margin to day or overnight trade 12,500 is $$328.75 , whereas the M6E
margin is $100 , so 3 x 12,500 contracts could be daytraded for $300 at $3.75 a pip

not sure if one has to close the trade first to access all the margin, or if being in a
new trading day the margin is simply available

Posted by screw_jack on 04-24-12 12:53 AM:

Quote from ddouglas:

Just for fun, I took this screenshot from TWS at 2:36pm EST today: Full-size futures on the left, Micros on the right.

Edit: That's the bid/ask - I should have said that.

Spread has become pretty tight for M6E (and also M6A) during regular sessions as more and more people are trading it.

FX futures in general are a bit more expensive to trade than spots. It is especially true for these micro contracts. As someone pointed out, you are looking at 2 pips miminum/RT. So for short term trades, I would stick with spots. But for longer term trades (if you intend to hold your positions for weeks, months or even through expirations), it's a different story. Often what people forget to compare is the overnight rollover rates. With spots, whichever retail shops you are with, there is no way you could get anywhere near what futures offer because there are always arbitrages going on to ensure you get the fair market and hence best rates.

One more advantage to these micro contracts is that they are not susceptible to quote rigging by bucket shops (Onada included). In non-regular hours, you might not see a tight spread, but you can usually still get a fill by giving up a pip or two. Also, all your trades are cleared centrally. For some, this is what makes them sleep better at night.

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