Forums - SPY Weeklys vs SPX Weeklys

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Posted by Cdntrader on 03-16-12 03:08 AM:

SPY Weeklys vs SPX Weeklys

What is the state of this war?

Which is better? tighter spreads? deeper liquidity?

I know. I know. I should look this stuff up. But I'm just too lazy.

Posted by rmorse on 03-16-12 03:14 AM:

Re: SPY Weeklys vs SPX Weeklys

Quote from Cdntrader:

What is the state of this war?

Which is better? tighter spreads? deeper liquidity?

I know. I know. I should look this stuff up. But I'm just too lazy.

In my opinion, you can trade SPY with electronic platforms. For trading SPX, it's best to pay a broker. If you need to get in and out quickly, markets are too wide.

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Posted by babutime on 03-16-12 04:41 AM:

Re: Re: SPY Weeklys vs SPX Weeklys

Quote from rmorse:

In my opinion, you can trade SPY with electronic platforms. For trading SPX, it's best to pay a broker. If you need to get in and out quickly, markets are too wide.

Depends what your goal is too. I like credit spreads so Weeklies on SPX are quite profitable from that point of view and if you do hit your short strike you aren't in the risk of being assigned. I just hate being assigned stock. Pain in the butt!

As for wide-bid ask spreads, I find a couple cents above the midpoint gets filled super fast with IB. Not sure if that has anything to do with Ib specifically.

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Posted by FSU on 03-16-12 01:18 PM:

Re: Re: SPY Weeklys vs SPX Weeklys

Quote from rmorse:

In my opinion, you can trade SPY with electronic platforms. For trading SPX, it's best to pay a broker. If you need to get in and out quickly, markets are too wide.

SPY Weeklies are traded electronically, unlike the regular SPX, so a broker wont really help here.

I love this product. Fairly tight spreads, and electronic environment. Also cash settlement and no early exercise.

Posted by babutime on 03-16-12 02:05 PM:

Re: Re: Re: SPY Weeklys vs SPX Weeklys

Quote from FSU:

SPY Weeklies are traded electronically, unlike the regular SPX, so a broker wont really help here.

I love this product. Fairly tight spreads, and electronic environment. Also cash settlement and no early exercise.

SPY is American Styled

Posted by EliteThink on 03-16-12 02:17 PM:

spxpm is looking more attactive from a volume/open interest perspective. friction would drop significantly from trading spy if it became viable. spx pit is likely going away.

Posted by FSU on 03-16-12 02:50 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: SPY Weeklys vs SPX Weeklys

Quote from babutime:

SPY is American Styled

Sorry meant to say SPX weekly are electronically traded unlike regular SPX and no early exercise

Posted by newwurldmn on 03-16-12 03:19 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: SPY Weeklys vs SPX Weeklys

Quote from babutime:

SPY is American Styled

Might as well be european because divs are only on maturities and who really cares about the deep ITM put.

Posted by Cdntrader on 03-16-12 06:19 PM:

Re: Re: Re: SPY Weeklys vs SPX Weeklys

Quote from FSU:

SPY Weeklies are traded electronically, unlike the regular SPX, so a broker wont really help here.

I love this product. Fairly tight spreads, and electronic environment. Also cash settlement and no early exercise.

Do you mean SPX weeklies?

I compared the spreads. They are too wide still on the SPX weeklies. They need to try harder to win over the SPY volumes imo.

It will only be worse now that 10x SPY options are coming.

Posted by FSU on 03-16-12 06:26 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: SPY Weeklys vs SPX Weeklys

Quote from Cdntrader:

Do you mean SPX weeklies?

Yes, Typo.

Posted by bc1 on 03-16-12 09:51 PM:

It is my understanding with SPX and SPXPM, even though you are placing your trade electronically with your broker, (I use TOS and OE), they still go to a pit where someone who represents your broker vocally calls out your trade where someone else takes the trade. That is what the TOS guys were saying anyway.

I trade the mark/midpoint and sometimes it gets traded immediately and sometimes it sits for a while which usually happens just after the price moves against you. TOS only allows a bid to the nearest nickle which is a downside. If the price really moves against me, sometimes I have to cancel and drop down a nickle or so.

Posted by rmorse on 03-16-12 10:03 PM:

Quote from bc1:

It is my understanding with SPX and SPXPM, even though you are placing your trade electronically with your broker, (I use TOS and OE), they still go to a pit where someone who represents your broker vocally calls out your trade where someone else takes the trade. That is what the TOS guys were saying anyway.

I trade the mark/midpoint and sometimes it gets traded immediately and sometimes it sits for a while which usually happens just after the price moves against you. TOS only allows a bid to the nearest nickle which is a downside. If the price really moves against me, sometimes I have to cancel and drop down a nickle or so.

Your order will either be entered electronically into the CBOE order book, or routed to a broker. Very few online brokers use floor brokers. Also, your order can't be represented in both places or you can receive two executions.

Posted by FSU on 03-16-12 11:18 PM:

Quote from bc1:

It is my understanding with SPX and SPXPM, even though you are placing your trade electronically with your broker, (I use TOS and OE), they still go to a pit where someone who represents your broker vocally calls out your trade where someone else takes the trade. That is what the TOS guys were saying anyway.

Not exactly true.

SPXPM

A singly listed product on the C2 (separate exchange owned by the CBOE) This is an all electronic exchange. Multiple market makers send quotes in electronically. There are no pits/open outcry brokers. Shouldn't matter what broker you use as all trades done electronically. If you see and offer/bid you can hit it and be filled instantly

SPX

Still a physical pit with open outcry at the CBOE. Quotes are sent by only one market maker (which is one reason they are so wide). Quotes can also be put up by a broker representing an order or entered into the electronic book by a customer. If you see a bid or offer you may or may not be filled as if it was put up by a broker, your broker must find him and make the trade. If the order is in the electronic book, it will be traded instantly. Each brokerage house works differently here. For example, Interactive Brokers has their own brokers in the pit. Other firms will use a contracted broker. Each firm has different "rules" for their orders based on size, etc, on whether they go to a broker or into the exchanges electronic books. Here a good broker may make a difference with your fills.

SPXW (SPX weeklies)

These are on the CBOE's Hybid system. Quotes are sent in by many market makers and can only be put up electronically. If you see a bid/offer you can trade it instantly.

Posted by bc1 on 03-17-12 06:41 AM:

Thanks for the info. I've been trying some credit spreads at various strikes OTM on the weekly. A week ago I thought my 1400/1405 spread would have expired OTM but no luck.

I'm kinda in a quandry as I have a slightly bullish bias but know a pull back for profit taking is coming. I suppose on Monday I'll put on an IC at 6 strikes out. Not a lot of premium but conservative for a weekly. I haven't tried any yet but I may try some debit spreads which may be better to trade the chop.

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