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Posted by cgroupman on 03-08-12 04:16 PM:

Comments? Racism in Florida death

Family of Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch seeks arrest

(Reuters) - The family of a 17-year-old African-American boy shot to death last month in his gated Florida community by a white Neighborhood Watch captain wants to see the captain arrested, the family's lawyer said on Wednesday.

snip

Without waiting for police to arrive, Crump said, Zimmerman confronted Trayvon, who was on the sidewalk near his home. By the time police got there, Trayvon was dead of a single gunshot to the chest.

snip

Since Trayvon, a high school junior who wanted to be a pilot, was black and Zimmerman is white, Crump said race is "the 600 pound elephant in the room."

A very sad story at bare minimum. Kid staying with father in gated community, shot by neighborhood watch guy who called 911 but didn't wait, went after the kid in his car, got out and shot the 17 year old. Kid had skiddles in his jacket for his 13 year old brother.

Are we going to say the kid must have deserved this God, I hope not. Of course we don't know all the facts yet, but this is painful.

Short read:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012...me=domesticNews

c

Posted by RCG Trader on 03-08-12 04:38 PM:

Re: Comments? Racism in Florida death

Quote from cgroupman:

Family of Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch seeks arrest

(Reuters) - The family of a 17-year-old African-American boy shot to death last month in his gated Florida community by a white Neighborhood Watch captain wants to see the captain arrested, the family's lawyer said on Wednesday.

snip

Without waiting for police to arrive, Crump said, Zimmerman confronted Trayvon, who was on the sidewalk near his home. By the time police got there, Trayvon was dead of a single gunshot to the chest.

snip

Since Trayvon, a high school junior who wanted to be a pilot, was black and Zimmerman is white, Crump said race is "the 600 pound elephant in the room."

A very sad story at bare minimum. Kid staying with father in gated community, shot by neighborhood watch guy who called 911 but didn't wait, went after the kid in his car, got out and shot the 17 year old. Kid had skiddles in his jacket for his 13 year old brother.

Are we going to say the kid must have deserved this God, I hope not. Of course we don't know all the facts yet, but this is painful.

Short read:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012...me=domesticNews

c

This will most likely be the only post on this thread. Look into the hearts, C. This thread will be off of the front page in two days.

Posted by cgroupman on 03-08-12 04:46 PM:

Re: Re: Comments? Racism in Florida death

Quote from RCG Trader:

This will most likely be the only post on this thread. Look into the hearts, C. This thread will be off of the front page in two days.

I'm not trying to start anything here. This popped up on my Reuter's news feed as I was researching something else. I was surprised that I hadn't heard of this, being the news junkie I am.

I sincerely hope that this goes to some sort of legal action. I would love to know what this guy was doing, and how he will claim self-defense or whatever. It's a sad, sad story.

Even our rightest of right wing, and leftest of left wing friends here must think this is a bad thing.

c

Posted by AK Forty Seven on 03-08-12 04:47 PM:

Re: Comments? Racism in Florida death

Quote from cgroupman:

Family of Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch seeks arrest

(Reuters) - The family of a 17-year-old African-American boy shot to death last month in his gated Florida community by a white Neighborhood Watch captain wants to see the captain arrested, the family's lawyer said on Wednesday.

snip

Without waiting for police to arrive, Crump said, Zimmerman confronted Trayvon, who was on the sidewalk near his home. By the time police got there, Trayvon was dead of a single gunshot to the chest.

snip

Since Trayvon, a high school junior who wanted to be a pilot, was black and Zimmerman is white, Crump said race is "the 600 pound elephant in the room."

A very sad story at bare minimum. Kid staying with father in gated community, shot by neighborhood watch guy who called 911 but didn't wait, went after the kid in his car, got out and shot the 17 year old. Kid had skiddles in his jacket for his 13 year old brother.

Are we going to say the kid must have deserved this God, I hope not. Of course we don't know all the facts yet, but this is painful.

Short read:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012...me=domesticNews

c

I sincerely hope this young man gets the justice he deserves.

That neighborhood watch pig had no business confronting that kid if he was just walking down the street

Posted by Max E. Pad on 03-08-12 04:50 PM:

Re: Comments? Racism in Florida death

There is no doubt it was due to racism, its sad that legitimate stories about racism like this one dont get the coverage they deserve.

Quote from cgroupman:

Comments? Racism in Florida death

Posted by AK Forty Seven on 03-08-12 04:51 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Comments? Racism in Florida death

Quote from cgroupman:

I would love to know what this guy was doing, and how he will claim self-defense or whatever. It's a sad, sad story.

I cant see any claim to self defense if he confronted a kid walking down the street minding his own business

Posted by cgroupman on 03-08-12 04:54 PM:

Re: Re: Comments? Racism in Florida death

Quote from Max E. Pad:

There is no doubt it was due to racism, its sad that legitimate stories about racism like this one dont get the coverage they deserve.

Thank you, I really thank you for your honest response. I hope they get a real strong lawyer to handle this.

c

Posted by Brass on 03-08-12 05:02 PM:

I hope that the investigation is thorough and the justice exacting.

Posted by Max E. Pad on 03-08-12 05:13 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Comments? Racism in Florida death

I do too, the bottom line is that people become desensitized to talk about racism, due to all the people who non chalantly throw the "Racist" accusation out these days, and it is very sad, because when legitimate racism like this happens it no longer gets the coverage it deserves.

Quote from cgroupman:

Thank you, I really thank you for your honest response. I hope they get a real strong lawyer to handle this.

c

Posted by Brass on 03-08-12 05:20 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Comments? Racism in Florida death

Quote from Max E. Pad:

I do too, the bottom line is that people become desensitized to talk about racism, due to all the people who non chalantly throw the term out these days, and it is very sad, because when something like this happens it no longer gets the coverage it deserves.

Nice try. But you're just looking for cover because you defended a number of known racists here under your previous user names (Steelers Baby and Hello), some of whom have since been purged. You stood up for some of their hate speech and obfuscated their true nature. I guess it might be a question of degree for you, eh, with "racist lite" being okay and not worthy of mention.

Posted by cgroupman on 03-08-12 06:11 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Comments? Racism in Florida death

Quote from Brass:

Nice try. But you're just looking for cover because you defended a number of known racists here under your previous user names (Steelers Baby and Hello), some of whom have since been purged. You stood up for some of their hate speech and obfuscated their true nature. I guess it might be a question of degree for you, eh, with "racist lite" being okay and not worthy of mention.

I think he's sincere, let's not start a war over this sad situation. I'm not saying you are, and you're welcome to do whatever you like. I am just glad to see some understanding here.

c

Posted by Max E. Pad on 03-08-12 06:21 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Comments? Racism in Florida death

Thx, i appreciate what you said, i dont know how much vitriol has been thrown my way from Brass because i have him on ignore, but I will not respond to him out of respect for a young boy who just lost his life.

Quote from cgroupman:

I think he's sincere, let's not start a war over this sad situation. I'm not saying you are, and you're welcome to do whatever you like. I am just glad to see some understanding here.

c

Posted by cgroupman on 03-08-12 06:25 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Comments? Racism in Florida death

Quote from Max E. Pad:

Thx, i appreciate what you said, i dont know how much vitriol has been thrown my way from Brass because i have him on ignore, but I will not respond to him out of respect for a young boy who just lost his life.

I still don't understand why anyone needs to use ignore button, but I guess since Baron put one in, and it seems to be used a lot, I guess there is some reasoning behind it.

I just go 'don't like that comment' and go on. Like the kids say 'whatever'. Just my way of handling things.

c

Posted by Brass on 03-08-12 06:31 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Comments? Racism in Florida death

Quote from cgroupman:

I still don't understand why anyone needs to use ignore button, but I guess since Baron put one in, and it seems to be used a lot, I guess there is some reasoning behind it.

I just go 'don't like that comment' and go on. Like the kids say 'whatever'. Just my way of handling things.

c

Regardless, it's nice to see that Max has finally mustered up some dignity. Let's hope it lasts. The only reason for my prior post about him is the marked contrast to what I have seen written by him under his previous user names. My sentiment about the matter you brought to our attention was made clear in my first post in this thread.

Posted by Tsing Tao on 03-08-12 06:35 PM:

With just the evidence presented in the article, it sounds to me as if the Watch guy was some police wanna be, "patrolling" his neighborhood and looking for a fight. It's Neighborhood WATCH. Watch means you report what you see. It does not mean perform security functions.

As for race, why do we care? The man should be tried for murder regardless of the color of his skin or the victim's.

Posted by futurecurrents on 03-08-12 06:40 PM:

I'm not sure I would jump to blaming it on racism alone. There are a lot of these legalistic, self-appointed, self-important, wanna-be-a-cop, gun-nut-righties, that also should not have a gun. Especially when on neighborhood watch patrol.

__________________

The future chaos is determined by the current chaos, in a chaotic manner.

Posted by PHOENIX TRADING on 03-08-12 06:52 PM:

Sorry but the story was a little skimpy on the details and we only heard the lawyers side.

I'll hold my verdict until more details are forth coming, because usually when a story is so sparse on the facts I find it was carefully crafted that way for ulterior motives.

__________________
Chance favors the prepared mind. (Pasteur)

Posted by AAAintheBeltway on 03-08-12 09:37 PM:

Quote from PHOENIX TRADING:

Sorry but the story was a little skimpy on the details and we only heard the lawyers side.

I'll hold my verdict until more details are forth coming, because usually when a story is so sparse on the facts I find it was carefully crafted that way for ulterior motives.

My reaction exactly. the media has a template. If a gang of blacks beat and torture some defenseless white kid, it is "youth violence." If a black is the victim, then they automatically go straight for the race card.

Race may well have played a part in this. The very fact they had a neighborhood watch indicates there was a crime problem. If I saw a black teenager I didnt recognize wandering around my neighborhood, i would be concerned and every one of you would be too. Don't bother to deny it.

Still, the exact same thing could have happened with a white youth. Overly zealous neighborhood watch guy stops him and demands to know what he is doing. Kid tells him to fuck off. Guy tries to restrain the kid, someone starts pushing and a gun comes out. For all we know, the neighborhood watch guy was just shadowing the kid and the kid confronted him. It seems like a simple explanation of "I live at such and such a street here" would have resolved the situation, so I wonder how it escalated.

Posted by PHOENIX TRADING on 03-08-12 10:07 PM:

Quote from AAAintheBeltway:

My reaction exactly. the media has a template. If a gang of blacks beat and torture some defenseless white kid, it is "youth violence." If a black is the victim, then they automatically go straight for the race card.

Race may well have played a part in this. The very fact they had a neighborhood watch indicates there was a crime problem. If I saw a black teenager I didnt recognize wandering around my neighborhood, i would be concerned and every one of you would be too. Don't bother to deny it.

Still, the exact same thing could have happened with a white youth. Overly zealous neighborhood watch guy stops him and demands to know what he is doing. Kid tells him to fuck off. Guy tries to restrain the kid, someone starts pushing and a gun comes out. For all we know, the neighborhood watch guy was just shadowing the kid and the kid confronted him. It seems like a simple explanation of "I live at such and such a street here" would have resolved the situation, so I wonder how it escalated.

The duke lacrosse rape case comes to mind.

Ether way the race hustlers are thanking their lucky stars the kid wasn't white or that the shooter wasn't black.

Where's the outrage from the inter-generational discrimination lobby? Those old people are out to kill us man

__________________
Chance favors the prepared mind. (Pasteur)

Posted by peilthetraveler on 03-08-12 10:28 PM:

This is probably how it went down. Neighborhood watch guy saw some kid with his pants hanging down to his knees wearing a big heavy jacket even though it was 85 degrees outside and thought is was a suspicious character because he has never seen him before in the gated community. He calls the police to report it, but the police are taking a long time to get there, so he decided to ask the kid what he is doing in that neighborhood or who is going to see...the conversation likely went something like this...

Security guard: Excuse me son, but I havent seen you here before. Do you know someone who lives here?

Black kid: Motherfucka, I aint gotta tell you shit, you wanna be po-po.

Security guard: This is a private community. If you don't know someone here, I'm going to have to ask you to leave.

Black kid: Bitch, I ain't goin nowhere. You know who I am, motherfucka? I'll cap yo ass.

(Black kid then pretends like he has a gun and he is going to pull it out)

Security guard fires, shoots him in the chest, then waits for police.

Meanwhile the black kid lays dying and his parents come out and he says "Momma...that white man shot me for no reason. I was just getting some skittles for my little cousin and he just jumped out of the car, pointed his gun and said "Die nigga!"

Yeah...thats more likely how it went down.

Posted by Grandluxe on 03-08-12 10:34 PM:

seems like race relations got worse after Obama ascended to power.

Posted by AK Forty Seven on 03-08-12 10:39 PM:

Quote from peilthetraveler:

so he decided to ask the kid what he is doing in that neighborhood or who is going to see

Which he had no business doing and the kid would have been right to tell him to fuck off

Posted by Lucrum on 03-08-12 10:43 PM:

Quote from Grandluxe:

seems like race relations got worse after Obama ascended to power.

Oh you haven't heard? That's Bush's fault too.

Posted by PHOENIX TRADING on 03-08-12 11:00 PM:

Quote from Grandluxe:

seems like race relations got worse after Obama ascended to power.

Wasn't that the plan.

__________________
Chance favors the prepared mind. (Pasteur)

Posted by cgroupman on 03-08-12 11:34 PM:

Quote from Tsing Tao:

With just the evidence presented in the article, it sounds to me as if the Watch guy was some police wanna be, "patrolling" his neighborhood and looking for a fight. It's Neighborhood WATCH. Watch means you report what you see. It does not mean perform security functions.

As for race, why do we care? The man should be tried for murder regardless of the color of his skin or the victim's.

That's a big part of the this whole nightmare. Why should some 'guy' shoot anyone when he already called 911 and they told him to hang tight? So, even if is not racism, it's much worse if he's just a cowboy shooting his gun at anyone. What a mess.

c

Posted by cgroupman on 03-08-12 11:37 PM:

Quote from AAAintheBeltway:

My reaction exactly. the media has a template. If a gang of blacks beat and torture some defenseless white kid, it is "youth violence." If a black is the victim, then they automatically go straight for the race card.

Race may well have played a part in this. The very fact they had a neighborhood watch indicates there was a crime problem. If I saw a black teenager I didnt recognize wandering around my neighborhood, i would be concerned and every one of you would be too. Don't bother to deny it.

Still, the exact same thing could have happened with a white youth. Overly zealous neighborhood watch guy stops him and demands to know what he is doing. Kid tells him to fuck off. Guy tries to restrain the kid, someone starts pushing and a gun comes out. For all we know, the neighborhood watch guy was just shadowing the kid and the kid confronted him. It seems like a simple explanation of "I live at such and such a street here" would have resolved the situation, so I wonder how it escalated.

The guy got out of the car, who cares if some kid said something. And 'a gun came out' as if by magic, look AAA, you and I have shared some good discussions over the years, but you have to be kidding me. 'a gun came out.'

I said we needed more facts and all that, but based on what we know so far, man, what a mess.

c

Posted by cgroupman on 03-08-12 11:41 PM:

Quote from peilthetraveler:

This is probably how it went down. Neighborhood watch guy saw some kid with his pants hanging down to his knees wearing a big heavy jacket even though it was 85 degrees outside and thought is was a suspicious character because he has never seen him before in the gated community. He calls the police to report it, but the police are taking a long time to get there, so he decided to ask the kid what he is doing in that neighborhood or who is going to see...the conversation likely went something like this...

Security guard: Excuse me son, but I havent seen you here before. Do you know someone who lives here?

Black kid: Motherfucka, I aint gotta tell you shit, you wanna be po-po.

Security guard: This is a private community. If you don't know someone here, I'm going to have to ask you to leave.

Black kid: Bitch, I ain't goin nowhere. You know who I am, motherfucka? I'll cap yo ass.

(Black kid then pretends like he has a gun and he is going to pull it out)

Security guard fires, shoots him in the chest, then waits for police.

Meanwhile the black kid lays dying and his parents come out and he says "Momma...that white man shot me for no reason. I was just getting some skittles for my little cousin and he just jumped out of the car, pointed his gun and said "Die nigga!"

Yeah...thats more likely how it went down.

Good to know you have 'visions' about this. This is exactly what I was afraid of coming from the extremes here, blame the victim. I honestly hope none of your kids have to face this type of thing.

And, did you promote some 'neighborhood watch guy' up to 'security guard?' Quite the leap, at least security guards are trained somewhat.

This is not Bush or Obama or even anything remotely like that. This is just plain a murder investigation. And a child lies dead.

c

Posted by Lucrum on 03-09-12 12:02 AM:

Quote from cgroupman:

....Why should some 'guy' shoot anyone when he already called 911 and they told him to hang tight?...

c

It would generally be perfectly legal PROVIDED the shooter had cause to fear for his life. Regardless of what a 911 operator told him to do.
Which is easy for the 911 operator to say/advise as they're not the ones under threat.

However having said that, based on the very limited details in the article, I'm guessing the shooter may be facing some legal troubles. It's generally going to be VERY difficult for an armed man in a car to claim self defense in shooting an unarmed pedestrian.

Posted by CaptainObvious on 03-09-12 12:02 AM:

Apparently only two people know what happened for certain. The dead kid and the shooter, and the whole truth will probably never be known. Did the kid give this guy some shit? Was this some wanna' be gunslinger with a quick trigger? Who knows? One thing for certain, race will be a definitive factor at the trial.

Posted by AAAintheBeltway on 03-09-12 12:49 AM:

Quote from cgroupman:

That's a big part of the this whole nightmare. Why should some 'guy' shoot anyone when he already called 911 and they told him to hang tight? So, even if is not racism, it's much worse if he's just a cowboy shooting his gun at anyone. What a mess.

c

Well, that's the question, isn't it? The whole thing doesn't make a lot of sense. You posit only two possibilities, racism or irresponsiblity. All I'm saying is we need to hear his side of it before we start drawing conclusions.

Posted by PHOENIX TRADING on 03-09-12 01:07 AM:

Quote from AAAintheBeltway:

Well, that's the question, isn't it? The whole thing doesn't make a lot of sense. You posit only two possibilities, racism or irresponsiblity. All I'm saying is we need to hear his side of it before we start drawing conclusions.

yeah like I'm sure his call was given the utmost priority.

Maybe the cops shouldn't have waited and finished off those 1/2 dozen chocolate cream filled donuts before they responded to the call.

__________________
Chance favors the prepared mind. (Pasteur)

Posted by cgroupman on 03-09-12 01:29 AM:

Quote from Lucrum:

It would generally be perfectly legal PROVIDED the shooter had cause to fear for his life. Regardless of what a 911 operator told him to do.
Which is easy for the 911 operator to say/advise as they're not the ones under threat.

However having said that, based on the very limited details in the article, I'm guessing the shooter may be facing some legal troubles. It's generally going to be VERY difficult for an armed man in a car to claim self defense in shooting an unarmed pedestrian.

Exactly my point, thank you Mr. L.

c

Posted by Eight on 03-09-12 01:43 AM:

I really like pepper spray. Shooting somebody is so... final. You can always spray them and shoot them later if you really don't like them I suppose...

Posted by cgroupman on 03-09-12 01:46 AM:

Quote from Eight:

I really like pepper spray. Shooting somebody is so... final. You can always spray them and shoot them later if you really don't like them I suppose...

Yes, another great point. Thanks.

c

Posted by Eight on 03-09-12 01:50 AM:

Quote from AAAintheBeltway:

It seems like a simple explanation of "I live at such and such a street here" would have resolved the situation, so I wonder how it escalated.

Blacks aren't like that, they are trained to be really uncooperative with whities. They all think they have to reenact Selma with the lunch counters and sitting in the front of the bus and all.

What they are getting out of the Democrats is legal superiority. They can do about whatever they want and the press won't report it and the courts are afraid to prosecute high profilers because there will be a riot... They don't have the good jobs in the private sector but they have this token win from the Democrats, legal superiority...

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