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Posted by peilthetraveler on 01-02-12 09:19 PM:

Debtors prison returns!

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/dail...-172417607.html

As if life wasn't already tense enough for Americans who can't pay their debts, collection agencies are now taking advantage of archaic state laws to have some debtors arrested and sent to jail.

More than one-third of US states allow debtors to be arrested and jailed, says Jessica Silver-Greenberg in the Wall Street Journal.

Judges typically grant arrest warrants when the debtors have failed to show up for court dates or failed to make court-ordered payments.

Of course, the reason debtors have failed to make court-ordered payments is often the same reason they didn't pay their debts in the first place: They don't have any money.

In September, a 53 year-old woman named Vivian Joy was stopped for a broken tail-light in Champaign, Illinois. And then, because the cops discovered that she still hadn't paid $2,200 to a collection agency, she was cuffed and carted off to jail.

Joy's excuse?

She doesn't have any money.

Jailing debtors for not paying their debts is apparently especially popular in Illinois.

Such a lousy excuse that she doesnt have money. She obvious had money to have a car. She had money to fill up the gas tank. She had money to pay car insurance.

Maybe she should finish that sentence and she should say that she doesnt have any money because she doesnt want to downgrade her lifestyle. Sell the car and she no longer has to pay for gas, insurance, car payments and she could pay her debt in a few months, but she didn't want to do that.

Now if somebody REALLY doesnt have any money as in they cant even afford electricity in their home, gas, no car, no cable TV, no internet, then yeah, those people shouldnt have to go to jail. But if you have any "luxuries" then send them to jail if they dont pay because they are spending YOUR money on themselves!

Posted by lorax2013 on 01-02-12 11:42 PM:

don't pay your $2,000 credit card debt - go to jail.

steal 1 billion directly from MF Global clients - say you're "really sorry" at a Congressional hearing.

don't pay your 1 trillion debt to bank depositors - call up your buddies in Congress and the Fed and get bailouts and 0% loans in perpetuity - then congratulate yourself on "saving the economy" and give yourself a big yearly bonus.

wake up and smell the neo-feudalism, America.

Posted by bwolinsky on 01-03-12 12:16 AM:

This story appears to be sensationalized now in the media.

There are only 6 states online that have been listed as states that allow the issuance of bench warrants, not for unpaid debts, but failure to appear to make court appearances, and the article says that there are more than a third of states that allow this but there is no list, so this appears to have first been written by the Wall Street Journal with no list of states that do this.

WSJ was very incomplete in their research on this, and the article cited in the Yahoo! AP cites them as their source and does not have links with a list with greater than 6 states on it.

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by dafeeder on 01-03-12 01:10 AM:

"Judges typically grant arrest warrants when the debtors have failed to show up for court dates or failed to make court-ordered payments."

They might go to jail for not obeying a court order and that would be contempt of court. It's not the same as debtor prison. Arbitration will stop them in their tracks.

debtorboards.com

Posted by PocketChange on 01-03-12 01:13 AM:

Seems it would be better for everyone in the US to personally incorporate. Then you can stiff anyone and do a BK, reincorporate, rinse and repeat.

After all the true purpose of using fictitious entities is to shield personal liability.

Posted by FroggerMan on 01-03-12 01:23 AM:

Quote from PocketChange:

Seems it would be better for everyone in the US to personally incorporate. Then you can stiff anyone and do a BK, reincorporate, rinse and repeat.

After all the true purpose of using fictitious entities is to shield personal liability.

Good idea except for the fact no bank will give you a loan defeating the purpose of incorporating.

Posted by denner on 01-03-12 01:52 AM:

Quote from bwolinsky:

This story appears to be sensationalized now in the media.

There are only 6 states online that have been listed as states that allow the issuance of bench warrants, not for unpaid debts, but failure to appear to make court appearances, and the article says that there are more than a third of states that allow this but there is no list, so this appears to have first been written by the Wall Street Journal with no list of states that do this.

WSJ was very incomplete in their research on this, and the article cited in the Yahoo! AP cites them as their source and does not have links with a list with greater than 6 states on it.

Yes, this is more accurate. Peil is a complete dipshit.

I've seen so many of these idiotic posts from him in the past year or so that I figure the guy lost his mind awhile ago.

__________________
wealth effect: stock market higher, health care costs higher, unemployment higher, food/energy prices higher, taxes higher, poverty higher, bonuses higher, foreclosures higher, homelessness higher, crime rate higher, bankruptcies higher, unsold cars higher... it's economics 101

Posted by peilthetraveler on 01-03-12 02:21 AM:

Put me on ignore if you dont like my posts then you freaking moron. Stop whining like a little girl. Sheesh, it a wonder you ever learned to use a computer.

Posted by bullmarket79 on 01-03-12 03:12 AM:

Pocketchange is right. If you incorporate you can take all the money you earn and then deduct all the money you spend and get taxed on only what is left over, sweeeeet deal.

Posted by high99 on 01-03-12 03:15 AM:

Failing to pay a debt is a civil matter. Not a crime. The loan was made willingly by both parties. If it is not repaid per the terms, then the lender can obtain relief via the terms spelled out for a default. So cut the crap scare tactics. As stated before they are talking about contempt of court for failing to appear. Nobody will spend hard time incarcerated for contempt. Regarding selling your car, TV, or family dog to pay back a couple of grand, it won't work. These basic types of assets are exempt and cannot be forced to liquidate. This sensationalist "news" came out last year and promptly died. This post is a waste of time and nothing more than recycled Bull Shit.

Posted by oldtime on 01-03-12 03:22 AM:

i know, but it would be nice if you got forclosed on that at least they would let you live in jail until you could get back on your feet and find a place to live. It shouldn't be mandatory, but it could be a compassionate option.

Posted by peilthetraveler on 01-03-12 04:21 AM:

Quote from high99:

Failing to pay a debt is a civil matter. Not a crime. The loan was made willingly by both parties. If it is not repaid per the terms, then the lender can obtain relief via the terms spelled out for a default. So cut the crap scare tactics. As stated before they are talking about contempt of court for failing to appear. Nobody will spend hard time incarcerated for contempt. Regarding selling your car, TV, or family dog to pay back a couple of grand, it won't work. These basic types of assets are exempt and cannot be forced to liquidate. This sensationalist "news" came out last year and promptly died. This post is a waste of time and nothing more than recycled Bull Shit.

I'm not saying they should be "forced" to sell their car, tv, or family dog...but they shouldnt claim they have no money and we are supposed to feel sorry for them if they do have those things.

For instance...lets scale it up a bit and I will show you what I mean. Lets say instead of $2k, I borrow $5 million from you. You come to collect, but I say I dont have any money because I've spent it on a van gogh painting, a ferrari and a new house. Now should people feel sorry for me because I can't pay you because i "dont have any money"? No they shouldnt. I should sell my assets of my own free will and pay what I owe to you.

Also the article states they are going to jail for not paying their court ordered payments, not just being a no show in court. $2k is not alot of money. If you have cable TV, you are probably spending $100 per month on it. You shouldnt be sitting around watching TV anyway if you owe someone money. You should spend that time working a part time job to pay what you owe. You spent the money, now work to pay it back.

Posted by denner on 01-03-12 05:11 PM:

Quote from peilthetraveler:

Put me on ignore if you dont like my posts then you freaking moron. Stop whining like a little girl. Sheesh, it a wonder you ever learned to use a computer.

Nah, I'm not going to put you on ignore. I'll continue to call out your stupidity when I see fit.

Posted by Scataphagos on 01-03-12 05:22 PM:

Re: Debtors prison returns!

Quote from peilthetraveler:

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/dail...-172417607.html

As if life wasn't already tense enough for Americans who can't pay their debts, collection agencies are now taking advantage of archaic state laws to have some debtors arrested and sent to jail.

More than one-third of US states allow debtors to be arrested and jailed, says Jessica Silver-Greenberg in the Wall Street Journal.

Judges typically grant arrest warrants when the debtors have failed to show up for court dates or failed to make court-ordered payments.

Of course, the reason debtors have failed to make court-ordered payments is often the same reason they didn't pay their debts in the first place: They don't have any money.

In September, a 53 year-old woman named Vivian Joy was stopped for a broken tail-light in Champaign, Illinois. And then, because the cops discovered that she still hadn't paid $2,200 to a collection agency, she was cuffed and carted off to jail.

Joy's excuse?

She doesn't have any money.

Jailing debtors for not paying their debts is apparently especially popular in Illinois.

Such a lousy excuse that she doesnt have money. She obvious had money to have a car. She had money to fill up the gas tank. She had money to pay car insurance.

Maybe she should finish that sentence and she should say that she doesnt have any money because she doesnt want to downgrade her lifestyle. Sell the car and she no longer has to pay for gas, insurance, car payments and she could pay her debt in a few months, but she didn't want to do that.

Now if somebody REALLY doesnt have any money as in they cant even afford electricity in their home, gas, no car, no cable TV, no internet, then yeah, those people shouldnt have to go to jail. But if you have any "luxuries" then send them to jail if they dont pay because they are spending YOUR money on themselves!

ABSOFRICKINLUTELY! Pay your debts or go to jail.

Can't afford food? The just DIE and do society a favor. Being a parasite is an injustice to society.

Before you lame-ass Socialists rag on my post... I'm a Darwinist.. "survival of the fittest"... provide for yourself or perish. Nobody "deserves" to be a parasite/burden upon others.

Posted by oldtime on 01-03-12 05:25 PM:

Quote from denner:

Nah, I'm not going to put you on ignore. I'll continue to call out your stupidity when I see fit.

now let's see the judging

5-3
5-2
5-0

In a unanimous decision this bout goes to denner

denner, I know you must be excited about your victory, will there be rematch?

Posted by oldtime on 01-03-12 05:33 PM:

Re: Re: Debtors prison returns!

Quote from Scataphagos:

ABSOFRICKINLUTELY! Pay your debts or go to jail.

Can't afford food? The just DIE and do society a favor. Being a parasite is an injustice to society.

Before you lame-ass Socialists rag on my post... I'm a Darwinist.. "survival of the fittest"... provide for yourself or perish. Nobody "deserves" to be a parasite/burden upon others.

I can't afford to buy food, but I'm very good at stealing it. You got a job that makes you money to buy food? That's cool. My job is to steal it while you're working. Hey man, no right or wrong, no foul, survival of the fittest, and when push comes to shove I'm pretty sure I am more fit than you.

Posted by oldtime on 01-03-12 06:08 PM:

Re: Re: Debtors prison returns!

Quote from Scataphagos:

ABSOFRICKINLUTELY! Pay your debts or go to jail.

Can't afford food? The just DIE and do society a favor. Being a parasite is an injustice to society.

Before you lame-ass Socialists rag on my post... I'm a Darwinist.. "survival of the fittest"... provide for yourself or perish. Nobody "deserves" to be a parasite/burden upon others.

by the time I'm done chipping away at you, every last penny you make will go to paying your police force and military to protect you from me. And without all your money you won't have much power will you?

Posted by Scataphagos on 01-03-12 06:20 PM:

Re: Re: Debtors prison returns!

Quote from Scataphagos:

... Nobody "deserves" to be a parasite/burden upon others.

Nobody, not even those born in America, was born with a "silver spoon in their ass"... Provide for yourself or do society a favor and put a bullet through your head. America/The World... does not need nor benefit from your being a parasite on society.

Posted by denner on 01-03-12 06:42 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Debtors prison returns!

Quote from Scataphagos:

Nobody, not even those born in America, was born with a "silver spoon in their ass"... Provide for yourself or do society a favor and put a bullet through your head. America/The World... does not need nor benefit from your being a parasite on society.

I'm on board with alot of your slogans, but you seem to get carried away. There is a world of difference between those who suck on the government tit via welfare, food stamps, Section 8 housing, etc, etc...and say the working poor who get shafted by the gigantic "stealth tax" of inflation and other offshoots of this broken economy.

Think about it for a minute. Those who are likely to get caught up in something like this would not be those who've been wards of the state, they would be people on the downside of the middle/lower classes falling into unmanageable debts. The parasites already have their Medicaid, their welfare, their free food; they aren't the victims/perps in this scenario.

Posted by Scataphagos on 01-03-12 06:51 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Debtors prison returns!

Quote from denner:

I'm on board with alot of your slogans, but you seem to get carried away. There is a world of difference between those who suck on the government tit via welfare, food stamps, Section 8 housing, etc, etc...and say the working poor who get shafted by the gigantic "stealth tax" of inflation and other offshoots of this broken economy.

Think about it for a minute. Those who are likely to get caught up in something like this would not be those who've been wards of the state, they would be people on the downside of the middle/lower classes falling into unmanageable debts. The parasites already have their Medicaid, their welfare, their free food; they aren't the victims/perps in this scenario.

I'm a Darwinist... couldn't care less about those who "can't or won't". No excuses. "Provide for yourself or perish". NOBODY IS ENTITLED TO ANYTHING OTHER THAN WHAT HE PROVIDES FOR HIMSELF. NOBODY IS "ENTITLED" TO BE A BURDEN TO SOCIETY... EVEN IF HE WAS BORN IN AMERICA!

(And yes, I abide by my own credo... when I run out of money and could become a burden to society, I'll "do the right thing" and off myself.)

I ain't asking SHIT from nobody... nor do I deserve such. By the same token, I resent being asked/required to pay for/subsidize those who can't/won't.

Posted by denner on 01-03-12 06:59 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Debtors prison returns!

Quote from Scataphagos:

I'm a Darwinist... couldn't care less about those who "can't or won't". No excuses. "Provide for yourself or perish". NOBODY IS ENTITLED TO ANYTHING OTHER THAN WHAT HE PROVIDES FOR HIMSELF. NOBODY IS "ENTITLED" TO BE A BURDEN TO SOCIETY... EVEN IF HE WAS BORN IN AMERICA!

(And yes, I abide by my own credo... when I run out of money and could become a burden to society, I'll "do the right thing" and off myself.)

I ain't asking SHIT from nobody... nor do I deserve such. By the same token, I resent being asked/required to pay for/subsidize those who can't/won't.

Like I said, I agree in principle with the concept, but get real. We can start with ending the welfare state and go from there.

But yes I have sympathy for those who ACTUALLY TRY AND STILL GET FUCKED. So pardon me if I actually make a critical distinction between the true parasites and those caught in the nexus of a largely fascist system.

Posted by oldtime on 01-03-12 07:12 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Debtors prison returns!

Quote from Scataphagos:

I'm a Darwinist... couldn't care less about those who "can't or won't". No excuses. "Provide for yourself or perish". NOBODY IS ENTITLED TO ANYTHING OTHER THAN WHAT HE PROVIDES FOR HIMSELF. NOBODY IS "ENTITLED" TO BE A BURDEN TO SOCIETY... EVEN IF HE WAS BORN IN AMERICA!

(And yes, I abide by my own credo... when I run out of money and could become a burden to society, I'll "do the right thing" and off myself.)

I ain't asking SHIT from nobody... nor do I deserve such. By the same token, I resent being asked/required to pay for/subsidize those who can't/won't.

next time I rob your house, don't you dare call the police. Why should my tax dollars go to pay for your police department you tit sucker, get a gun and protect yourself. I'm tired of paying for your military and your police and your fire department. I can take care of my self. I'm a darwinist. Whatever I can steal belongs to me. If you think you are so big you can steal it back from me then fine, but don't ask me to pay taxes to protect what you can't protect for yourself.

Posted by zdreg on 01-03-12 07:17 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Debtors prison returns!

Quote from oldtime:

next time I rob your house, don't you dare call the police. Why should my tax dollars go to pay for your police department you tit sucker, get a gun and protect yourself. I'm tired of paying for your military and your police and your fire department. I can take care of my self. I'm a darwinist. Whatever I can steal belongs to me. If you think you are so big you can steal it back from me then fine, but don't ask me to pay taxes to protect what you can't protect for yourself.

"Whatever I can steal belongs to me"
Scataphagos never said it.

ever hear of a private security/police force.

Posted by oldtime on 01-03-12 07:25 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Debtors prison returns!

Quote from zdreg:

"Whatever I can steal belongs to me"
Scataphagos never said it.

ever hear of a private security/police force.

land belongs to whoever can steal it. Podunk third world bananna republics and drug dealers and corporations call it a private security/police force. When you are the USA you call it the military.

Posted by zdreg on 01-03-12 07:42 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Debtors prison returns!

Quote from oldtime:

land belongs to whoever can steal it. Podunk third world bananna republics and drug dealers and corporations call it a private security/police force. When you are the USA you call it the military.

are u a lefty from the 60's or did woodstock pass u by?

Posted by oldtime on 01-03-12 07:59 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Debtors prison returns!

Quote from zdreg:

are u a lefty from the 60's or did woodstock pass u by?

I was too cool for Woodstock, didn't like crowds, plus I had a gig that weekend, nice small crowd. No naked dancing girls, plenty of naked girls after the gig. Better dope too, no brown acid. What's a lefty? All I cared about was getting paid (and it didn't happen as often as you would think.)

How bout you? Did you have a VW bus?

Posted by bigarrow on 01-03-12 09:11 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Debtors prison returns!

Quote from zdreg:

are u a lefty from the 60's or did woodstock pass u by?

What oldtime is talking about is survival of the fittest. And if he is the best at taking what he wants then he is the top darwinist.

__________________
"I don't wear no Stetson But I'm willin' to bet son That I'm as big a Texan as you are"

Posted by zdreg on 01-03-12 09:17 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Debtors prison returns!

Quote from bigarrow:

What oldtime is talking about is survival of the fittest. And if he is the best at taking what he wants then he is the top darwinist.

this is exactly like the leaders of the former communist soviet union who lived better than the leaders in the west. they clawed their way to the top with a no hold prisoner philosophy. they all were true darwinists.

Posted by oldtime on 01-03-12 09:25 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Debtors prison returns!

Quote from bigarrow:

What oldtime is talking about is survival of the fittest. And if he is the best at taking what he wants then he is the top darwinist.

and if physically I am weak, but I can put together a coalition of similarly weak individuals, we can ban together and defeat a physically superior foe. Brains often win over braun. That's why they call it survival of the fittest.

Posted by bigarrow on 01-03-12 09:45 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Debtors prison returns!

Quote from zdreg:

this is exactly like the leaders of the former communist soviet union who lived better than the leaders in the west. they clawed their way to the top with a no hold prisoner philosophy. they all were true darwinists.

And just like the English and French and Spanish who came to America and started our country.

__________________
"I don't wear no Stetson But I'm willin' to bet son That I'm as big a Texan as you are"

Posted by dafeeder on 01-03-12 09:55 PM:

Re: Re: Debtors prison returns!

Quote from Scataphagos:

ABSOFRICKINLUTELY! Pay your debts or go to jail.

Can't afford food? The just DIE and do society a favor. Being a parasite is an injustice to society.

Before you lame-ass Socialists rag on my post... I'm a Darwinist.. "survival of the fittest"... provide for yourself or perish. Nobody "deserves" to be a parasite/burden upon others.

What about AIG, GS, BOA, Citigroup, CHase and every other crooked bank that received TARP money? Most of them would have been BK if the FED didn't bail them out.

Posted by oldtime on 01-03-12 09:55 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Debtors prison returns!

Quote from bigarrow:

And just like the English and French and Spanish who came to America and started our country.

correct me if I am wrong, but I heard 90% of the indigenous population of North America died in the first hundred years since the first Europeans arrived. Mostly due to disease that they were not immune from.

Not that that really has anything to do with this discussion, but it's just something to think about.

As many before me have pointed out, we're not really sure if USA's success has anything to do with capitalism or just good luck and bad policies of exploiting resources we don't know how to replenish.

Posted by oldtime on 01-03-12 09:58 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Debtors prison returns!

Quote from oldtime:

correct me if I am wrong, but I heard 90% of the indigenous population of North America died in the first hundred years since the first Europeans arrived. Mostly due to disease that they were not immune from.

Not that that really has anything to do with this discussion, but it's just something to think about.

As many before me have pointed out, we're not really sure if USA's success has anything to do with capitalism or just good luck and bad policies of exploiting resources we don't know how to replenish.

sorry, I thought I was on the capitalism thread, yes debtors prisons are good and I support them

Posted by pupu on 01-03-12 11:20 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Debtors prison returns!

Quote from oldtime:

sorry, I thought I was on the capitalism thread, yes debtors prisons are good and I support them

Keeping people in jail is very expensive and it come out of taxpayers pockets.

The state will probably spend much much more keeping her locked up than the debt is worth.

You sure you want to to pay for this?

Personally I believe in mass executions but you need to owe more than a couple of grand to qualify....:-)

Posted by Scataphagos on 01-03-12 11:28 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Debtors prison returns!

Quote from dafeeder:

What about AIG, GS, BOA, Citigroup, CHase and every other crooked bank that received TARP money? Most of them would have been BK if the FED didn't bail them out.

SHOULD HAVE GONE BANKRUPT! Should have never been supported to become "TBTF".

A big part of our mess is that we've done wrong things.. and we keep doing them.

Posted by Scataphagos on 01-03-12 11:30 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Debtors prison returns!

Quote from denner:

"... critical distinction between the true parasites and those caught in the nexus of a largely fascist system.

All part of "that's life". There is no "try".. only "do" or "do not".

No worries, though. Once a country turns down the Socialist path, there is no going back.

Posted by oldtime on 01-03-12 11:40 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Debtors prison returns!

Quote from pupu:

Keeping people in jail is very expensive and it come out of taxpayers pockets.

The state will probably spend much much more keeping her locked up than the debt is worth.

You sure you want to to pay for this?

Personally I believe in mass executions but you need to owe more than a couple of grand to qualify....:-)

it costs the taxpayers more to execute a prisoner on death row than it does to imprison them for life (even if they are young.)

I live in Indiana, Incarceration is the number one industry in Terra Haute.

It seems only fair to me that people with jobs should pay taxes to imprison people who are unemployed.

You got a better idea? What? Just let them get off Scott Free?

Everytime you put a debtor in prison, that's just one more citizen you won't make a bad loan to.

Posted by high99 on 01-04-12 03:47 AM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Debtors prison returns!

Quote from oldtime:

sorry, I thought I was on the capitalism thread, yes debtors prisons are good and I support them

You first, slick.

Posted by zdreg on 01-04-12 04:37 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Debtors prison returns!

Quote from Scataphagos:

All part of "that's life". There is no "try".. only "do" or "do not".

No worries, though. Once a country turns down the Socialist path, there is no going back.

exactly.
socialism is an addictive and seducing drug that appeals to the masses.

Posted by piezoe on 01-04-12 05:33 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Debtors prison returns!

Quote from bigarrow:

What oldtime is talking about is survival of the fittest. And if he is the best at taking what he wants then he is the top darwinist.

However you can steal more money with a pen than a gun, so Scat may still be the top Darwinist if all Oldtime wants is food.

It may turn out that Jon Corzine eclipses them both as the �ber Darwinist!

Posted by oldtime on 01-04-12 05:36 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Debtors prison returns!

Quote from piezoe:

However you can steal more money with a pen than a gun, so Scat may still be the top Darwinist if all Oldtime wants is food.

It may turn out that Jon Corzine eclipses them both as the �ber Darwinist!

food clothing and shelter what the heck more does and old man need?

When I was young it was health wealth and sex

Posted by oldtime on 01-04-12 05:41 PM:

you can steal a lot of money if you have a printing press and a government

Posted by piezoe on 01-04-12 05:55 PM:

Quote from oldtime:

you can steal a lot of money if you have a printing press and a government

Good one!

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