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-- Anxious Greeks Emptying Their Bank Accounts (http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?threadid=232245)

Anxious Greeks Emptying Their Bank Accounts

http://www.spiegel.de/international...,802051,00.html

It's fine when you got something to withdraw. Most Europeans got nothing. Merkozi are driving Europeans to the ultimate slavery. Worse than WWII.

This is because a few men in Germany and fewer in France do not want to lose a little of their huge purchasing power by allowing some printing.

This is the ultimate monstrosity. A few rich people control the central bank.

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Quote from intradaybill:

This is because a few men in Germany and fewer in France do not want to lose a little of their huge purchasing power by allowing some printing.

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Quote from intradaybill:

This is the ultimate monstrosity. A few rich people control the central bank.

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Quote from intradaybill:

This is because a few men in Germany and fewer in France do not want to lose a little of their huge purchasing power by allowing some printing.

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Quote from LeeD:

There is no evidence high inflation helps boost economy... but there is no doubt it it devalues savings.
In fact, inflation has 2 noticeable effects:
1) It is one of the primary reason of bubbles. With high inflation people basically cannot save for retirement as any savings will be dramatically devalued over their lifetime. So, instead they "invest" into teh stock market, property etc....
2) It boosts spending. When people see that the stock market is stagnant and money in teh bank depreciates very fast they are more willing to spend it all.
3) It leads to decrease in real wages (as except for top executives, wages and salaries grow slower than inflation).

I disagree here. In fact, 2) and especially 3) are greatly beneficial to rich people. (By "rich" I mean people who own businesses that employ other people, not those who just have enough savings in the bank to retire.)

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Quote from Lucrum:

You're suggesting printing even more worthless paper money will solve Europe's problems? Really?

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I suggest a massive debt holiday in lieu of printing. It will have the same effect in the end, without having to go through the ritual of pointless hyperinflation.

Flush the debts, recapitalize from zero, and restart the cycle.

It's inevitable anyway, so do it now, while we can still execute a controlled descent, instead of later, when events are beyond our control.

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Quote from intradaybill:

Yes, Why? Are you suggesting that more debt will solve a serious debt problem and more taxes on middle class in Europe will lead to prosperity?

All financial systems reach to a point that monetization of debt is the only solution. This is the point for Europe.

or what are you suggesting after all? Let us hear you. Do you suggest eliminating some of the population that cannot produce?

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Quote from fixedgrin88:

What do you mean by "All financial systems reach to a point that monetization of debt is the only solution?"

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Quote from fixedgrin88:

[BAlso, clearly Lucrum did not make any suggestions in his post about what to do. Why do you have to put words in his mouth? Seriously, I have seen arguments with more finesse on forums about anime. [/B]

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Quote from intradaybill:

You know no history, I bet also geography. You sound like someone who thinks Italy is next to Alaska.

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Quote from fixedgrin88:

Are you a politician? Your strategy for explaining your statement is to insult others?

You still haven't explained what you mean by "All financial systems reach to a point that monetization of debt is the only solution."

Can you just explain that? Can you give some examples? I'm not trying to antagonize you, although it seems you are interested in starting fights over the internet, I simply want to know what you mean by your statements.

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__________________
wealth effect: stock market higher, health care costs higher, unemployment higher, food/energy prices higher, taxes higher, poverty higher, bonuses higher, foreclosures higher, homelessness higher, crime rate higher, bankruptcies higher, unsold cars higher... it's economics 101

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Quote from intradaybill:

Yes, Why? Are you suggesting that more debt will solve a serious debt problem and more taxes on middle class in Europe will lead to prosperity?

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or what are you suggesting after all? Let us hear you.

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Do you suggest eliminating some of the population that cannot produce?

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Quote from fixedgrin88:

I'm not trying to antagonize you, although it seems you are interested in starting fights over the internet, I simply want to know what you mean by your statements.

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Quote from denner:

Intradaybill has been ranting about debt monetization and berating Bernanke for not doing ENOUGH quant easing...Yet, he still has the temerity to rant against everyone else who calls him an asshole (which is what he is). In his fucked up head, those against QE are nuts, yet printing and printing and printing will somehow solve this.

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Quote from denner:

In his fucked up head, those against QE are nuts, yet printing and printing and printing will somehow solve this.

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With the glaring exception of Greece - which provides convenient cover to Germany's utterly irrelevant fixation on matters fiscal, a fixation which is possible only because everyone conveniently forgets that they (and the French) were the first to violate the Stability and Growth Pact by being over the 3% GDP limit on gov't deficits, a violation for which they were taken to task by, among others, Spain - this crisis IS NOT ABOUT ANYTHING HAVING TO DO WITH GOVERNMENT DEFICITS.
What it has to do with are:

1 - Current account imbalances, which then lead to
2 - Lots of PRIVATE debt, which then leads to either ....
3 - Insolvent banks, which are bailed out by their sovereigns, or ....
4 - Large gov't spending that attempts to spike growth, leading to
4 - Ballooning gov't deficits in countries that previously had a gov't surplus, which then leads to
5 - FEAR of bank runs, which then leads to
6 - Ever more frantic bail-outs.

...which is where we are now.
The German emphasis on fiscal stuff is just a leftover from their Weimar days politically, and underneath that is a way of protecting both their own banks, and of protecting the massive subsidization of their exports embedded in the euro. The Germans actually gained an advantage by having their government spending heavily all throughout the life of the euro as that allowed for growth in their private sector from which they are now benefiting even as everyone else sinks into the muck. (Greece didn't benefit because their private sector wasn't and won't, in the foreseeable future, be internationally competitive no matter what anyone does. It ain't a first world country. That's not a problem that's solvable by any of the means being discussed, possibly excepting a breakup of the euro. Slight possibility though.)
Step 4 up there would work if the country in question had its own currency, because that currency would then go lower in relation to others, and that would act as an automatic export subsidy and import tariff. In the euro, this is of course impossible. Hence the problem.
All this bs about gov't deficits is precisely that: utter, stinking bs.

Some decent reading on this mess: Irrelevant Merkozy

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