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Posted by Maverick74 on 11-08-11 10:39 PM:

Yet Another Prop Firm Hiring

Job Description

Proprietary Trading Opportunity

Tower Hill Trading LLC is seeking motivated individuals to join our reputable proprietary training program. To share in this opportunity, incoming traders must be fully committed to trading and motivated for success. In addition, applicants must have a tenacious work ethic and superior math skills. Prior trading experience is not required, but beneficial. At THT, there are no capital contributions or license tests required to trade.

At THT, you will be guided by our most seasoned and successful traders. These mentors will share their proven and effective methods of success from which you can derive your own trading strategies.
Tower Hill Trading uses only the best and most stable trading platforms and provides options to fulfill our trader's needs. THT currently offers the newest daytrading software, Takion, in addition to the industry standard, Lightspeed Trader. THT provides its traders with a technologically advanced trading environment and our impressive trading floor is located in the heart of the Loop in downtown Chicago.

Tower Hill Trading will provide the tools and fundamentals needed for our traders to become successful. If you consider trading a career and not a hobby, contact us today or visit our site at http://www.towerhilltrading.com to learn more about what THT has to offer.

Benefits of Tower Hill Trading:
• No Capital Contributions
• No License Exams
• Exceptional Training and Mentoring
• Access to the best trading platforms available
• Experienced Management and Support
• Entrepreneurial Environment
Desired Skills & Experience

Bachelors degree from a top university, degree in business, mathematics or finance preferred.

History of academic excellence.

Ability to make good decisions under pressure.

Entrepreneurial and self-motivated character.

Demonstrated interest in trading, financial markets and technology.

Strong background in competitive sports or extracurricular activities.

Prior internship or experience in trading is a plus, but not required to start.
Company Description

Tower Hill Trading is a leading proprietary trading firm based in The Loop if Chicago, IL.
We offer traders a superior trading environment, the opportunity to learn from the best, state of the art technology and extremely competitive payouts.
We specialize in NASDAQ, NYSE, and AMEX equities. We pride ourselves on developing some of the best traders in the business. At Tower Hill Trading, outstanding success is always rewarded no matter how junior or senior a trader may be.

__________________
"Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, she walks into mine." Rick Blaine

Posted by drayton sawyer on 11-08-11 11:50 PM:

how is this firm getting around the series 56 or series 7 testing requirement that other reputable firms require? something seems wrong here.

Posted by Maverick74 on 11-08-11 11:51 PM:

Quote from drayton sawyer:

how is this firm getting around the series 56 or series 7 testing requirement that other reputable firms require? something seems wrong here.

Because it's a "real" prop firm. No DEPOSIT.

__________________
"Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, she walks into mine." Rick Blaine

Posted by oldtime on 11-09-11 12:11 AM:

I know absolutely nothing about them and I already know they are a rip off.

There'a a piill that will make your penis bigger, but it's only available for men that seriously want it.

If there ever was a real firm hiring traders (and there never has been one) they would tell you how much, because that is the language of traders. How big is the account, what is my cut, what is your cut?

ooh, I have a bachelors degree, aren't I special! I knew that 100k I borrowed from the government would finally pay off.

I'm damn sure a self starter so this should be perfect for me.

And the great thing is, experience preferred but not required.

So far my only experience is posting on ET.

Posted by Maverick74 on 11-09-11 12:13 AM:

Quote from oldtime:

I know absolutely nothing about them and I already know they are a rip off.

There'a a piill that will make your penis bigger, but it's only available for men that seriously want it.

If there ever was a real firm hiring traders (and there never has been one) they would tell you how much, because that is the language of traders. How big is the account, what is my cut, what is your cut?

ooh, I have a bachelors degree, aren't I special! I knew that 100k I borrowed from the government would finally pay off.

I'm damn sure a self starte so this should be perfect for me.

And the great thing is, experience preferred but not required.

So far my only experience is posting on ET.

Are you f*cking insane? Dude, there are 30 firms like this in Chicago and I know just about every one of them. This is the norm in Chicago.

__________________
"Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, she walks into mine." Rick Blaine

Posted by oldtime on 11-09-11 12:18 AM:

right on

Posted by Lucias on 11-09-11 12:34 AM:

There is also Kershner in Texas. Problem is for anyone who's had a modicum of success, they don't pay a salary. Unless you already live there, i.e with a parent then it really isn't rational to go to work for a prop firm.

Even if you are let's say pretty successful from the "get go" and start making a few K per month (say $250 per day) then as much as it cost to live then I think it would be hard to get ahead and build an account.

You'd just be making a living in a very hard way and you wouldn't be getting the career advancement in most any other job or the benefits.

I tried to go the prop route myself. My plan was to go down to Texas with all my savings. But, I had family obligations. I'm actually glad I didn't go because I didn't know how much it cost to live at that time -- I wouldn't have been broke within 1 or 2 months.

Sure it sounds good but unless you live with your parents in the same area then it really isn't a viable option for most of us. Successful folks need remote funding or a prop that pays a real salary -- not a "draw".

My only option is to build my own business.. sell my systems on C2 and other sites, offer products on my website, and work save my money from work a real job to trade. Sometimes I'd like to take the "easy way out" but at end of day, if I make it work then I'll be trading my way and bringing in extra income while getting the benefits from a professional job.

Posted by Maverick74 on 11-09-11 12:36 AM:

Quote from Lucias:

There is also Kershner in Texas. Problem is for anyone who's had a modicum of success, they don't pay a salary. Unless you already live there, i.e with a parent then it really isn't rational to go to work for a prop firm.

Even if you are let's say pretty successful from the "get go" and start making a few K per month (say $250 per day) then as much as it cost to live then I think it would be hard to get ahead and build an account.

You'd just be making a living in a very hard way.

If you are only making 2k a month they are going to fire you. You are not going to have to worry about that for long.

__________________
"Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, she walks into mine." Rick Blaine

Posted by Shanb on 11-09-11 12:38 AM:

Know a couple of the traders there, talked to the owner when I first got into the city. A good friend of mine will be running one of the mentorship programs...will ask him and see if I can get some details

Posted by Lucias on 11-09-11 12:42 AM:

Maverick.. even if you made 5k per month or $250 per day then you're bringing home at a 50 split 2k. I imagine making $250 every single day would be pretty good for prop trader. At least Bella had made it a big deal for his traders to set a $500 goal.. I believe it was $500

Of course, I dunno how much "risk" they give their traders and capital to swing.

Quote from Maverick74:

If you are only making 2k a month they are going to fire you. You are not going to have to worry about that for long.

Posted by Maverick74 on 11-09-11 12:45 AM:

Quote from Lucias:

Maverick.. even if you made 5k per month or $250 per day then you're bringing home at a 50 split 2k. I imagine making $250 every single day would be pretty good for prop trader. At least Bella had made it a big deal for his traders to set a $500 goal.. I believe it was $500

Of course, I dunno how much "risk" they give their traders and capital to swing.

I don't think you understand. It cost a shitload of money to put you in that seat. There is an opportunity cost. They expect you to make 10 to 20 times that. I don't think you understand how these firms work.

__________________
"Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, she walks into mine." Rick Blaine

Posted by Lucias on 11-09-11 12:47 AM:

What type of max daily loss would they give you per day? 5k? 7k? 30k?

I still think you are exaggerating. Look at Schonfeld, they let like 1/3rd their traders go and they were grossing under 60k I believe. Also, look at even SMB Prop traders who are selling DVDs and courses. You really think they'd be selling DVD if they were making 25k per day ? Why would anyone even stay there? Also what is the opportunity cost?

Honestly, I'm somewhat familiar with prop firms and my take is that a lot of the traders aren't very profitable. If they're making so much money then why wouldn't they pay a salary? Doesn't make sense.

Quote from Maverick74:

I don't think you understand. It cost a shitload of money to put you in that seat. There is an opportunity cost. They expect you to make 10 to 20 times that. I don't think you understand how these firms work.

Posted by Maverick74 on 11-09-11 12:49 AM:

Quote from Lucias:

What type of max daily loss would they give you per day? 5k? 7k? 30k?

I still think you are exaggerating. Look at Schonfeld, they let like 1/3rd their traders go and they were grossing under 60k I believe. Also, look at even SMB Prop traders who are selling DVD tapes and thing. You really think they'd be selling DVD if they were making 25k per day ? Why would anyone even stay there?

Those are completely different type of firms. Most these firms in Chicago start guys at 10k daily loss limits. The more experienced guys can lose up to 100k a day. You're not flipping one lots at these firms.

__________________
"Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, she walks into mine." Rick Blaine

Posted by oldtime on 11-09-11 12:54 AM:

If I can teach you how to trade I can teach a computer how to trade, and I don't have to get dressed at 2 am to post bail after you've been out celebrating because you made 10k for the day.

Posted by Lucias on 11-09-11 01:04 AM:

With a 10k daily loss limit trading futures directionally, I could probably average 5k per day and make up to 50k on a day at my best. Although sounds like they'd be trading quite a bit differently then taking directional bets..

Posted by beachhouse on 11-09-11 01:53 AM:

Re: Yet Another Prop Firm Hiring

Quote from Maverick74:

Desired Skills & Experience

Strong background in competitive sports or extracurricular activities.

.

Why the fuck do they require "strong" background in "competitive sports"?

Does it have anything to do with trading stocks?

A bunch of morons running this firm, I believe.

Posted by Maverick74 on 11-09-11 01:59 AM:

Re: Re: Yet Another Prop Firm Hiring

Quote from beachhouse:

Why the fuck do they require "strong" background in "competitive sports"?

Does it have anything to do with trading stocks?

A bunch of morons running this firm, I believe.

__________________
"Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, she walks into mine." Rick Blaine

Posted by beachhouse on 11-09-11 02:12 AM:

Re: Re: Re: Yet Another Prop Firm Hiring

Quote from Maverick74:

You will find that the norm for almost all prop firms in Chicago. You better have one of two things on your resume: sports or poker. I'm dead serious, I would venture close to 90% of all prop traders played sports in high school and many in college and pro. Sorry, that's just the way it is.

A con artist is always a con artist. He just doesn't know what makes a successful trader.

By the way, are you associated with this "prop" firm in any way or shape or form?

You know, advertising for this firm requires a payment to ET! Have you made the payment?

Posted by Maverick74 on 11-09-11 02:14 AM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Yet Another Prop Firm Hiring

Quote from beachhouse:

A con artist is always a con artist. He just doesn't know what makes a successful trader.

By the way, are you associated with this "prop" firm in any way or shape or form?

You know, advertising for this firm requires a payment to ET! Have you made the payment?

No, I have no affiliation with this prop firm. Seriously, this firm is legit. Almost every prop firm here hires athletes. Two of the top traders at Transmarket Group are ex-Michigan football players.

__________________
"Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, she walks into mine." Rick Blaine

Posted by oldtime on 11-09-11 02:20 AM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Yet Another Prop Firm Hiring

Quote from Maverick74:

No, I have no affiliation with this prop firm. Seriously, this firm is legit. Almost every prop firm here hires athletes. Two of the top traders at Transmarket Group are ex-Michigan football players.

how many non athletes do they hire?

Posted by Maverick74 on 11-09-11 02:24 AM:

Here's an old excerpt from Trader Monthly:

Darren Petterson
Age: 30
Firm: TransMarket Group
City: Chicago
Trades: Yield curve

As a wide receiver on the 1997 national-champion University of Michigan football team, Petterson learned how to stay focused on the ball while ignoring the guys trying to run him over. This skill served him well on the floor of the CBOT. Now trading by screen -- he trades eurodollar futures, mainly the red and green packs, as well as Treasury bond futures -- Petterson isn't afraid to take contrarian positions when naysayers abound. "When I started playing football at Michigan, I was a walk-on," he says with a shrug, "and I had everyone telling me 'You can't do it.'" But despite the steep odds against a walk-on making the team, Petterson busted his ass -- and two years later, he was playing. "I just got good at ignoring what people think," he says.

After college, he joined TransMarket Group in Chicago, becoming the first of four Petterson brothers to successfully trade for the firm. He spent time under the tutelage of TransMarket chairman Ray Cahnman before heading out to trade Treasury futures for his own account, successfully exploiting arbitrage opportunities in the early days of electronic trading. "Ray had a tremendous influence on me," Petterson says. "He's the ultimate mentor. Before I came in, he'd take people under his wing all the time, but he had decided he was too old for it. Then he decided to take one last chance -- on me."

In 2001, Petterson bought an associate seat on the CBOT. He has since enjoyed both a 1,600 percent run-up in the seat's value and consistent seven-figure trading profits.

While his success has enabled him to buy a 4,500-square-foot home in Chicago's trendy Wrigleyville neighborhood and a scenic lake house in southwestern Michigan not far from his hometown of Flint, the walk-on Wolverine seems prouder of the fact that he has been able to follow in the footsteps of Cahnman and mentor other traders.

"My youngest brother was the first one to get in, and he started to do well," Petterson says. "Then my other brothers said, 'It looks like you guys are having fun -- we want to try this out.' So from there, I took some of their friends in and taught them how to trade, too. Now I've brought six people into the business."

__________________
"Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, she walks into mine." Rick Blaine

Posted by ScalperJoe on 11-09-11 03:01 AM:

Quote from Maverick74:

Because it's a "real" prop firm. No DEPOSIT.

Just a follow up on Drayton's post, I'm also surprised their traders don't need any license.

For clarification, is this more of a "hedge fund" model?

Posted by Maverick74 on 11-09-11 03:09 AM:

Quote from ScalperJoe:

Just a follow up on Drayton's post, I'm also surprised their traders don't need any license.

For clarification, is this more of a "hedge fund" model?

No, employee model. You "work" for the firm. It's a real job.

__________________
"Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, she walks into mine." Rick Blaine

Posted by rosy2 on 11-09-11 03:19 AM:

Quote from Lucias:

I imagine making $250 every single day would be pretty good for prop trader.

your kidding right? maybe you meant 2500 which is still low

Posted by rosy2 on 11-09-11 03:24 AM:

Re: Re: Re: Yet Another Prop Firm Hiring

Quote from Maverick74:

You will find that the norm for almost all prop firms in Chicago. You better have one of two things on your resume: sports or poker. I'm dead serious, I would venture close to 90% of all prop traders played sports in high school and many in college and pro. Sorry, that's just the way it is.

sports and poker may have been popular over 10 years ago. now its mathematical intuition and programming.

Posted by Lucias on 11-09-11 03:37 AM:

Maverick,

Why are you so sure that this firm is one where the "big hitters" go versus one where the traders scrape by? It says they trade stocks. Is there any way to know? How can some of these firms be "big hitters" versus others who are scraping by? Is it because the "big hitters" have proprietary/real edge and the average prop trader is just momentum trading?

Not clear on how you know which are which..

Posted by startraitor on 11-09-11 03:46 AM:

Is this your first rodeo son?

Quote from Lucias:

Maverick,

Why are you so sure that this firm is one where the "big hitters" go versus one where the traders scrape by? It says they trade stocks. Is there any way to know? How can some of these firms be "big hitters" versus others who are scraping by? Is it because the "big hitters" have proprietary/real edge and the average prop trader is just momentum trading?

Not clear on how you know which are which..

Posted by athlonmank8 on 11-09-11 03:47 AM:

ok? so what? poker? You want a gambler on the floor huh?

Stats, mathematics, and engineering.

Posted by lionline on 11-09-11 04:53 AM:

a firm would want someone in sports and/or successful for poker is not because they are delusional.

There are a lot of people and few jobs.
there are a lot o people with engineering/math degrees.
there are fewer people with e/m degrees who play / excel at sports.

if you take someone who has a great education + good competitive and physical skills - that shows a lot about a person.

just because you know Pi to a million places doesn't make you any better than a regular jock who can outplay you in every sport imaginable but dumb as a brick.
if you can do both - you are rare. if you can do more - even more rare

but you wouldn't understand.

Posted by hitnrun on 11-09-11 04:56 AM:

not sure how many proprietary firms in chicago that trade stocks
they have a true proprietary model . very selective in who they hire to work on there floor

employee. no money required. split deal
they teach you to trade there style & you follow there rules to the t

all these hedge funds / mutual funds/ various pools of capital
most of those traders are not licensed

they are actual employess that are hired to trade firm capital

all personal preference on how a trader can pursue to learn to trade & how they apply themselves in the markets . pro/cons for true prop or risk deposit model

no easy path in learning to trade let alone being consistently profitable

Posted by Maverick74 on 11-09-11 05:24 AM:

Quote from Lucias:

Maverick,

Why are you so sure that this firm is one where the "big hitters" go versus one where the traders scrape by? It says they trade stocks. Is there any way to know? How can some of these firms be "big hitters" versus others who are scraping by? Is it because the "big hitters" have proprietary/real edge and the average prop trader is just momentum trading?

Not clear on how you know which are which..

OK, this might sting a little but I'm just being honest here. The firms that accept anyone with a pulse and a check are the bottom of the barrel. Almost none of those guys are really vetted. For the most part they have no discipline, they are nor terribly bright and not terribly competitive.

Think of it this way. Say I was going to draft a professional football team in Chicago called the Schmears. I'll take anyone that comes out for tryouts. I've got 500 lbs guys, 60 lbs guys, guys that don't know how to hold a football, throw a football and guys who can't run 5 yards without getting tired. I'll take anybody. What kind of a football team would that be? Now take a look at the real team, the Bears. They get to draft the best players in college. The very best of the best of the best. And even most of them won't make the final cut. Now compare the two teams. One where I get to select only the best and the other where I take anybody. Do you get it now?

__________________
"Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, she walks into mine." Rick Blaine

Posted by hitnrun on 11-09-11 05:50 AM:

since when does intelligence dictate profitibility as a trader

there are many profitable traders with different backrounds & traits that are successful in this business

some people are too smart (analytical) for there own good & make lousy traders.

if a trader has skin in the game. there money on the line that makes them bottom of the barrel in the firm they trade with

that's is plain sterotyping to me
i am sure others will disagree with that viewpoint

Posted by Maverick74 on 11-09-11 05:51 AM:

[QUOTE]Quote from hitnrun:

since when does intelligence dictate profitibility as a trader

there are many profitable traders with different backrounds & traits that are successful in this business

some people are too smart (analytical) for there own good & make lousy traders.

if a trader has skin in the game. there money on the line that makes them bottom of the barrel in the firm they trade with

that's is plain sterotyping to me. many would disagree with you [/QUOTE

Years and years of statistics back up my case. Sorry man. Not all intelligent people make good traders. But you won't find any profitable stupid traders. Come on man, you know better.

__________________
"Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, she walks into mine." Rick Blaine

Posted by hitnrun on 11-09-11 06:33 AM:

i have met all types of traders . met some dumb profitable ones too
i try not to judge a book by it's cover
to each his own

Posted by Emilio_Lizardo on 11-09-11 08:14 AM:

Re: Yet Another Prop Firm Hiring

Quote from Maverick74:

Tower Hill Trading LLC is seeking motivated individuals to join our reputable proprietary training program.

Seriously Mav, are you high or something?

Tower Hill has less than a stellar rep. Far from it. I would be glad to back that up if you like.

I see that they are using Takion, the "newest" platform that is just a rewrite of Anvil. Though the proprietor's name is nowhere on it, probably due to that SEC short-against-the-box investigation he has got going on. Even Harvey Pitt apparently can't quash it.

Posted by trader#21 on 11-09-11 09:57 AM:

Re: Re: Yet Another Prop Firm Hiring

Quote from beachhouse:

Why the fuck do they require "strong" background in "competitive sports"?

Does it have anything to do with trading stocks?

A bunch of morons running this firm, I believe.

You don't know shit about 'real' trading firms.

Mav has been a stoic in these replies.

Posted by esc_trader on 11-09-11 10:04 AM:

Pretty decent website at least - THT..

Too bad so often you need a 'top tier' academic record. Those lucky kids already have options in the job marketplace. I would think especially in chi-town they would downplay the academic record. 'Gotta weed out the recruits for math' I know.. I'm sure these firms would tell Matt Damon in Good Will Hunting to go F himself..

By sports I guess they are looking for killer instinct?

Posted by Maverick74 on 11-09-11 02:19 PM:

Quote from esc_trader:

Pretty decent website at least - THT..

Too bad so often you need a 'top tier' academic record. Those lucky kids already have options in the job marketplace. I would think especially in chi-town they would downplay the academic record. 'Gotta weed out the recruits for math' I know.. I'm sure these firms would tell Matt Damon in Good Will Hunting to go F himself..

By sports I guess they are looking for killer instinct?

The thing you have to understand is these firms get flooded with resumes. When they are looking to hire one or tow guys, they get 200 to 500 resumes. They have to weed out guys somehow. If you think it's hard to get into a firm like Towerhill, you should look at Goldman. There was Vanity Fair article some time back going through the process. There is something like 40 levels of interviews. Forty!!!! It's insane guys. The level of competition for these jobs is fierce and just having an "interest" in trading is not enough. It doesn't help now that the algos are taking over. That means the competition for the few remaining human trader spots is even more fierce.

__________________
"Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, she walks into mine." Rick Blaine

Posted by Maverick74 on 11-09-11 02:25 PM:

http://hereisthecity.com/2009/12/25..._goldman_sachs/

52 Interviews At Goldman Sachs - One Job Offer

8 months ago

As we seem to be giving a fair bit of coverage to Goldman Sachs at the moment, we thought it would be interesting to re-run this article, which provides some insight into the firm's notoriously difficult interview process.
Goldman Logo

We've all heard those stories about the number of interviews it takes to get on the payroll over at Goldman Sachs, but many of those stories are received second or third hand, and lots of us wonder whether most are apocryphal. It's interesting, then, when a former Goldman Sacher comes out of the woodwork and lifts the lid on the firm a little bit.

Spears ran an interview just before the Christmas break with Nicolas Sarkis, the founder of AlphaOne Partners, a privately owned investment firm, who once worked at Goldman.

Sarkis, 38, claims that he had to attend 52 interviews before landing a job at Goldman in 1992, and kept hearing the same words throughout the recruitment process - 'team player', 'dedication' and 'client focus'. He also says that, during his fifth round of interviews, a trader suffered a heart attack on a trading floor, slap-bang in front of a number of interviewees. It would make good reading, of course, to report that the trader carried on regardless, and ended up having his best trading day ever, but alas, he was apparently taken out on a stretcher. It's good to see that Goldman traders are human, after all (or at least some of them were in 1992).

AlphaOne's founder also claims that the Goldman training course for new hires was 'like a military training camp', and that many new recruits left the firm soon after joining because they thought it was 'a madman's house'. Sarkis also says that he was threatened with the boot twice during his first week on the training program, and was once chased into the toilet by the head of the program, who demanded to know where gold had closed the day before.

Other Goldman interview 'legends' (urban or otherwise) that have popped up in the past include the one about the young female professional who, having successfully made it through over 30 interviews, was at the last hurdle. 'If you get through this interview', the senior Goldman employee is alleged to have said, 'You'll get the job. The problem is', he is said to have continued, 'I don't like women who wear green jackets'. The woman, of course, was wearing a green jacket. She is said to have come away without a job offer.

And then there's the story about the nervous interviewee who entered another senior Goldman executive's office, only to find him with his feet on the desk, watching Bloomberg TV. Not wanting to disturb the Goldman God while he was clearly deep in thought, the interviewee remained by the door and said nothing. After about 10 minutes, the interviewer looked up and said: 'Well, if you can't distract me from the TV screen after all this time, you'll not be much good to Goldman Sachs. Shut the door on your way out'.

But individuals who get declined by Goldman can take heart; the firm once famously turned down Lloyd Blankfein, and Blankfein, of course, ended up CEO of the firm, after joining another company which was later taken over by Goldman.

__________________
"Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, she walks into mine." Rick Blaine

Posted by Maverick74 on 11-09-11 03:01 PM:

How about this one. For all you FX traders on ET. And no, I have no affiliation with this firm.

FX Trader

Geneva Trading - Greater Chicago Area
Job Description

Geneva Trading is seeking active FX traders to join our High Frequency team. If you have a consistently profitable record and are interested in expanding into different markets we invite you to apply to this position. Geneva offers a superior platform of cutting edge execution technologies, exceptionally fast global exchange connectivity and co-location facilities, competitive rates and compensation packages, and the benefits of working with experienced support staff, technologists and management team. We pride ourselves on forming mutually beneficial partnerships with our traders and maintaining long term commitment to their personal development.

Desired Skills & Experience

Experience in strategy/model building

Strong understanding of fundamentals of FX Cash Trading

Outstanding product knowledge, trading methodology and market insight

Demonstrable consistent profitability record

Impeccable risk management discipline

Competitive nature

Pro-active and progressive approach

Excellent communication skills and experience working within a team

Educational/Experience Requirements

Bachelor’s degree in Finance, Economics, Mathematics, Statistics or related field

Minimum of 2 years recent experience trading in FX Cash markets

Proven results in a similar position
Company Description

Geneva Trading is a global multi-strategy multi-asset class proprietary trading firm. Founded in 1999 in Dublin Ireland, it now has more than 150 traders and staff worldwide and is a top volume player in more than 13 global markets. Headquartered in Chicago, the firm provides advanced technologies and connectivity to its trading floors and offices in North America and Europe.

__________________
"Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, she walks into mine." Rick Blaine

Posted by esc_trader on 11-09-11 03:08 PM:

Quote from Maverick74:

The thing you have to understand is these firms get flooded with resumes. When they are looking to hire one or tow guys, they get 200 to 500 resumes. They have to weed out guys somehow. If you think it's hard to get into a firm like Towerhill, you should look at Goldman. There was Vanity Fair article some time back going through the process. There is something like 40 levels of interviews. Forty!!!! It's insane guys. The level of competition for these jobs is fierce and just having an "interest" in trading is not enough. It doesn't help now that the algos are taking over. That means the competition for the few remaining human trader spots is even more fierce.

THT ain't Goldman. If you have the academic creds - right out of college - I'd go with the Wall St firm over the no salary profit split for several reasons.

Nothing against THT - they may be terriffic guys and all.. I don't know how much of a favor they are doing you by putting you on. Where you gotta fight for a spot? At GS to get in, yeah you put up with some crap. It's obviousuly worth it. Even if you get doinked you got GS on your resume.

Posted by Maverick74 on 11-09-11 03:18 PM:

Quote from esc_trader:

THT ain't Goldman. If you have the academic creds - right out of college - I'd go with the Wall St firm over the no salary profit split for several reasons.

Nothing against THT - they may be terriffic guys and all.. I don't know how much of a favor they are doing you by putting you on. Where you gotta fight for a spot? At GS to get in, yeah you put up with some crap. It's obviousuly worth it. Even if you get doinked you got GS on your resume.

Oh by no means was I comparing GS to THT. Quite the opposite. THT is a cakewalk to get into compared to GS. Hell the janitor at GS could get hired at THT. I'm just putting things in perspective how competitive these jobs are. There are "some" on ET that believe they are "entitled" to a trading job that pays them 500k base plus a 10 million bonus and unlimited buying power. Of course these people are high as a kite.

I only posted the THT one because there are countless threads on here with guys bitching about the 5k down prop firms and how bad the training is or how high their rates are, etc.

__________________
"Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, she walks into mine." Rick Blaine

Posted by esc_trader on 11-09-11 03:26 PM:

I judge it by - what risk is the firm putting up. Must have a contribution? You're a customer. No contribution/profit split = contractor. Salary = employee.

If you've seen that show Pawn Stars - the guys that run the pawn shop - I'd take one of them over an Ivy League MBA. Young traders should watch how those guys negotiate.

Even the cap contrib firms are doing a great service, they are providing the leverage and low rates that make it possible to actually make a living scalping, but they shouldn't act like they are 'hiring' people because they have zero risk putting someone on. Young guys need to watch out for crap like that and grind those rates down low as possible. Their commish probably going to play a bigger factor in their success than their ability to predict the future price.

Posted by oldtime on 11-09-11 04:05 PM:

Quote from Maverick74:

Oh by no means was I comparing GS to THT. Quite the opposite. THT is a cakewalk to get into compared to GS. Hell the janitor at GS could get hired at THT. I'm just putting things in perspective how competitive these jobs are. There are "some" on ET that believe they are "entitled" to a trading job that pays them 500k base plus a 10 million bonus and unlimited buying power. Of course these people are high as a kite.

I only posted the THT one because there are countless threads on here with guys bitching about the 5k down prop firms and how bad the training is or how high their rates are, etc.

I stand corrected

Posted by Crispy on 11-09-11 06:19 PM:

Re: Yet Another Prop Firm Hiring

Quote from Maverick74:

Bachelors degree from a top university, degree in business, mathematics or finance preferred.

Count me out. Thats the one that would get my resume tossed as unfit.

Posted by Maverick74 on 11-09-11 06:23 PM:

Re: Re: Yet Another Prop Firm Hiring

Quote from Crispy:

Count me out.

Don Bright is waiting for your call. The next "boot camp" is right around the corner.

__________________
"Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, she walks into mine." Rick Blaine

Posted by Crispy on 11-09-11 06:26 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Yet Another Prop Firm Hiring

Quote from Maverick74:

Don Bright is waiting for your call. The next "boot camp" is right around the corner.

16 years OJT...no fucking way im sitting thru some "bootcamp".

However if I were to go retail id go with bright for sure. Why not, they still clear GSEC right?

Posted by WS_MJH on 11-09-11 06:31 PM:

Only 30 some "real" prop firms in Chicago. That's not much at all. Can see why there's so much competition for so few spots.

Posted by hitnrun on 11-09-11 07:17 PM:

bright is not retail

you need a 7 license & 20 k to join there prop firm . clear thru goldman

they will allow you up to 1 million in bp to use but not abuse

Posted by denner on 11-09-11 07:22 PM:

Quote from WS_MJH:

Only 30 some "real" prop firms in Chicago. That's not much at all. Can see why there's so much competition for so few spots.

Considering the market environment, it's more than I would have expected. Not to mention that twenty odd years ago when I was first out of college, the whole concept of "prop trading" was a pretty foreign concept. Basically, you would be looking for a position as a clerk or runner at the exchanges or you'd go to New York for the traditional investment bank path.

__________________
wealth effect: stock market higher, health care costs higher, unemployment higher, food/energy prices higher, taxes higher, poverty higher, bonuses higher, foreclosures higher, homelessness higher, crime rate higher, bankruptcies higher, unsold cars higher... it's economics 101

Posted by Maverick74 on 11-09-11 07:23 PM:

Quote from hitnrun:

bright is not retail

you need a 7 license & 20 k to join there prop firm . clear thru goldman

they will allow you up to 1 million in bp to use but not abuse

What? Not abuse? Deal off!

__________________
"Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, she walks into mine." Rick Blaine

Posted by Crispy on 11-09-11 07:40 PM:

Quote from hitnrun:

bright is not retail

you need a 7 license & 20 k to join there prop firm . clear thru goldman

they will allow you up to 1 million in bp to use but not abuse

If you`re not getting a deal, but just leverage you are pretty much retail dude. They clear GSEC(goldman sachs execution and clearing).

Posted by hitnrun on 11-09-11 08:12 PM:

no dude your wrong retail is strictly 4-1
if your a licensed trader then your NOT retail
Your a prop trader
call them if you can't understand the facts
no wonder so many traders fail. there clueless

Posted by Crispy on 11-09-11 08:17 PM:

Quote from hitnrun:

no dude your wrong retail is strictly 4-1
if your a licnesed trader then your NOT retail
call them if you can't understand the facts
no wonder so many people lose money trading there cluless

Ever heard of portfolio margining? 6-1 Thats what I get. And I am not a "pro".

True, you hold the 7 technically you are not retail. But again...without a deal you`re just a glorified retail trader getting enhanced leverage. Dont be ashamed...its ok if thats the only type of firm you could get into. I understand why you want to be known as a "pro". Hell, we all need something to make us feel good.

Posted by Crispy on 11-09-11 08:28 PM:

Quote from hitnrun:

nothing wrong with retail or prop actually personal preference
you get 100 % payout of profits is all that matters

you assume to much & you don't know squat

by the way portfolio margining is 6.67 to 1

get your lies straight next time

Not at GSEC. Its 6-1

Posted by hitnrun on 11-09-11 08:30 PM:

nothing wrong with retail or prop actually personal preference
you get 99 % payout of profits is all that matters

you assume too much & you don't know squat

i made the post for your fyi since you think bright is retail

you have a lot to learn

Posted by hitnrun on 11-09-11 08:35 PM:

prop is the way to go 20-50 to 1 with all the tools & best commissions
prop is good for those that can be licensed
prop is all about leverage aka use other people's money
retail does not measure up whatever floats your boat

Posted by Crispy on 11-09-11 08:38 PM:

Quote from hitnrun:

100 % payout of profits is all that matters

"The source of account funding and profit and loss split should be documented. A split which provides all or virtually all of the P & L to the trader is likely a red flag that the account is a customer account."

https://www.cboe.org/publish/RegCir/RG10-101.pdf
---------------------------------------------------------------

Sounds like retail to me.

Posted by hitnrun on 11-09-11 08:42 PM:

typo. my bad. actually 99 % payout for prop
all the same to me

would not want to pay those high gsec commissions

Posted by Crispy on 11-09-11 08:52 PM:

Quote from hitnrun:

typo. my bad. actually 99 % payout for prop
all the same to me

would not want to pay those high gsec commissions

Bright clears GSEC. The rates are in line with GSEC direct.

Posted by beachhouse on 11-09-11 09:42 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Yet Another Prop Firm Hiring

Quote from trader#21:

You don't know shit about 'real' trading firms.

Mav has been a stoic in these replies.

I am in a good mood, so I will give u a piece of advice: These prop firms are all scams.

You are obviously a very stupid person and will believe a lot of "real" things. Stupidity can't be cured, so I don't expect you to accept my advice.

Posted by Maverick74 on 11-09-11 09:45 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Yet Another Prop Firm Hiring

Quote from beachhouse:

I am in a good mood, so I will give u a piece of advice: These prop firms are all scams.

You are obviously a very stupid person and will believe a lot of "real" things. Stupidity can't be cured, so I don't expect you to accept my advice.

TMG is a scam? LOL. They are one of the largest players in government debt in the country. Get a clue dude. Go back to the Yahoo message boards.

__________________
"Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, she walks into mine." Rick Blaine

Posted by brokerboy on 11-09-11 09:55 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Yet Another Prop Firm Hiring

Quote from beachhouse:

I am in a good mood, so I will give u a piece of advice: These prop firms are all scams.

You are obviously a very stupid person and will believe a lot of "real" things. Stupidity can't be cured, so I don't expect you to accept my advice.

they are not scams its just hard to make a living if your a small trader. you have to have big goals when your on a 50/50 split.

Posted by rosy2 on 11-10-11 02:20 AM:

Quote from denner:

Considering the market environment, it's more than I would have expected. Not to mention that twenty odd years ago when I was first out of college, the whole concept of "prop trading" was a pretty foreign concept. Basically, you would be looking for a position as a clerk or runner at the exchanges or you'd go to New York for the traditional investment bank path.

prop firms (where the firm backs you and you get a split; like mav has said) have been around chicago for a long time. there were oconnor and crt in the 70s; cooperneff, gbar, hull, sig in the 80s; a bunch now. They started as floor groups and got bigger.

whats foreign to me is when some of you think prop trading is where you have to put your own money up. I consider that a brokerage account.

Posted by ChaosNSX on 11-10-11 02:40 AM:

"Real" prop firms, so few and far between now a days. Nice to see the model making a comeback. Both principal and agent risk balanced fairly usually lead to an amicable and profitable deal "if" and "when" profits come.

Quote from Maverick74:

Because it's a "real" prop firm. No DEPOSIT.

Posted by Maverick74 on 11-10-11 02:47 AM:

Quote from ChaosNSX:

"Real" prop firms, so few and far between now a days. Nice to see the model making a comeback. Both principal and agent risk balanced fairly usually lead to an amicable and profitable deal "if" and "when" profits come.

They are not making a comeback. They have been around for 3 decades. In fact, we probably have only half of what we had 10 years ago. But there still are enough to satisfy any want in the marketplace. The honest to God truth is, the average ET'er is too damn lazy to seek them out.

__________________
"Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, she walks into mine." Rick Blaine

Posted by EMRGLOBAL on 11-10-11 02:58 AM:

Because it's a "real" prop firm. No DEPOSIT.
------------------------------------------------

Correct. When I started trading at Schoni, not only did they not require the series 7,55, etc but they were self clearing.

However, the firm decided to have all the traders license so any improper trading would fall on the shoulders of the "trader" and lesson the liability of the firm. We all traded firm capital.

If you trade "Firm Capital" you do not need a 7 or 55, or whatever.

__________________
"Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant, that only an "intellectual" could ignore or evade it"...Thomas Sowell

Posted by EMRGLOBAL on 11-10-11 03:03 AM:

You will find that the norm for almost all prop firms in Chicago. You better have one of two things on your resume: sports or poker. I'm dead serious, I would venture close to 90% of all prop traders played sports in high school and many in college and pro. Sorry, that's just the way it is.
-----------------------

Mav is correct. From the old school SPIKE II to ONLINE/Holds Bruvas...to Shoni LLC, they all ask the same questions and require the same "Mental"

"sports and poker may have been popular over 10 years ago. now its mathematical intuition and programming." YEP.

__________________
"Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant, that only an "intellectual" could ignore or evade it"...Thomas Sowell

Posted by vinny007 on 11-10-11 05:46 PM:

Hey,

This seems interesting however I live in florida. Do you know of any firms in this state that is hiring/looking for traders?

thanks.

Posted by tradervinny242 on 11-10-11 06:08 PM:

Do you know of any firms that are looking for traders in florida. I'm looking for something closer to home.

Posted by rosy2 on 11-11-11 12:33 AM:

Quote from vinny007:

Hey,

This seems interesting however I live in florida. Do you know of any firms in this state that is hiring/looking for traders?

thanks.

cargill for cash sugar trading

Posted by athlonmank8 on 11-11-11 12:48 AM:

Quote from Maverick74:

OK, this might sting a little but I'm just being honest here. The firms that accept anyone with a pulse and a check are the bottom of the barrel. Almost none of those guys are really vetted. For the most part they have no discipline, they are nor terribly bright and not terribly competitive.

Think of it this way. Say I was going to draft a professional football team in Chicago called the Schmears. I'll take anyone that comes out for tryouts. I've got 500 lbs guys, 60 lbs guys, guys that don't know how to hold a football, throw a football and guys who can't run 5 yards without getting tired. I'll take anybody. What kind of a football team would that be? Now take a look at the real team, the Bears. They get to draft the best players in college. The very best of the best of the best. And even most of them won't make the final cut. Now compare the two teams. One where I get to select only the best and the other where I take anybody. Do you get it now?

Yet the bears still suck.

Posted by athlonmank8 on 11-11-11 12:51 AM:

What do you know about trading? You sound like you're head of the marketing department.

Your bashing of Bright's firm is childish too. I see you post dumb topics all the time trying to get a knee-jerk reaction out of him. Grow up

Posted by Lucias on 11-11-11 12:53 AM:

The honest truth is that these prop firms aren't offering an acceptable deal for anyone who has even achieved a moderate degree of success in life. I mean I've not been hugely successful but I've been modestly successful enough to get comfortable and make enough to support my family and have a good job.

Yet, the average prop firm doesn't pay a salary and tend to be located in Chicago. There is no way in the world that I could relocate to Chicago without a salary. First, I'd give up a good living that I'd probably not be able to replace if the opportunity fail AND second I wouldn't have the money to even go.

What I'm trying to say Maverick is that no successful person would take one of these so-called great offers unless they were located in Chicago and no "unsuccessful" person would either because I tried both ways!

Before I had a decent job or anything to bother losing, I had a goal to take one of these types of deals but I didn't have the MONEY to move away from home and go live in another city.

Really, one professional trader gave me the advice and I think this is the best advice -- if you want to be a trader then the first you have to do is get a very high paying job and a lot of money.

One more thing.. the sports thing is outdated. I was reading an article on First New York where the owners were talking about.. It was written about 5 yers ago. They said "used to they looked for someone good in sports and math" but that today it wasn't enough. That today you had to have own edge... something like that...

They are not making a comeback. They have been around for 3 decades. In fact, we probably have only half of what we had 10 years ago. But there still are enough to satisfy any want in the marketplace. The honest to God truth is, the average ET'er is too damn lazy to seek them out. [/QUOTE]

Posted by pwrtrdr on 11-11-11 01:03 AM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Yet Another Prop Firm Hiring

Quote from beachhouse:

A con artist is always a con artist. He just doesn't know what makes a successful trader.

By the way, are you associated with this "prop" firm in any way or shape or form?

You know, advertising for this firm requires a payment to ET! Have you made the payment?

you dont want to go there ...... !! He will argue it for long while!

really who cares.

Anyone want to try to start and entirley different web site dedicated to trading collaboration... ?

I think also pay to join may make sense.. ? Maybe real verified names as well ?

Posted by Maverick74 on 11-11-11 01:16 AM:

Quote from Lucias:

The honest truth is that these prop firms aren't offering an acceptable deal for anyone who has even achieved a moderate degree of success in life. I mean I've not been hugely successful but I've been modestly successful enough to get comfortable and make enough to support my family and have a good job.

Yet, the average prop firm doesn't pay a salary and tend to be located in Chicago. There is no way in the world that I could relocate to Chicago without a salary. First, I'd give up a good living that I'd probably not be able to replace if the opportunity fail AND second I wouldn't have the money to even go.

What I'm trying to say Maverick is that no successful person would take one of these so-called great offers unless they were located in Chicago and no "unsuccessful" person would either because I tried both ways!

Before I had a decent job or anything to bother losing, I had a goal to take one of these types of deals but I didn't have the MONEY to move away from home and go live in another city.

Really, one professional trader gave me the advice and I think this is the best advice -- if you want to be a trader then the first you have to do is get a very high paying job and a lot of money.

One more thing.. the sports thing is outdated. I was reading an article on First New York where the owners were talking about.. It was written about 5 yers ago. They said "used to they looked for someone good in sports and math" but that today it wasn't enough. That today you had to have own edge... something like that...

They are not making a comeback. They have been around for 3 decades. In fact, we probably have only half of what we had 10 years ago. But there still are enough to satisfy any want in the marketplace. The honest to God truth is, the average ET'er is too damn lazy to seek them out.

[/QUOTE]

And if you wanted to be an actor, would you move to Hollywood? Surely it's not fair for a movie producer to ask you to move your life all the way to CA for an audition. What would you do if you didn't get the role?

There are a lot of whiners on ET. One of the reasons these firms want jocks is because of the mental toughness. Many of these guys made tremendous sacrifices their entire childhoods just for the chance at an athletic scholarship knowing if they get hurt, it's all over. That's the risk they take.

The problem today is the entitlement society we have. You guys all make demands. But you are not entitled to a job. There is no shortage of resumes Lucias. They don't need you to move to Chicago or NY. They have more then enough guys already.

Of course it's a risk. Everything in life is a risk. Some guys just want it more then you.

__________________
"Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, she walks into mine." Rick Blaine

Posted by newwurldmn on 11-11-11 01:38 AM:

Quote from Maverick74:

And if you wanted to be an actor, would you move to Hollywood? Surely it's not fair for a movie producer to ask you to move your life all the way to CA for an audition. What would you do if you didn't get the role?

There are a lot of whiners on ET. One of the reasons these firms want jocks is because of the mental toughness. Many of these guys made tremendous sacrifices their entire childhoods just for the chance at an athletic scholarship knowing if they get hurt, it's all over. That's the risk they take.

The problem today is the entitlement society we have. You guys all make demands. But you are not entitled to a job. There is no shortage of resumes Lucias. They don't need you to move to Chicago or NY. They have more then enough guys already.

Of course it's a risk. Everything in life is a risk. Some guys just want it more then you. [/B][/QUOTE]

When I was at a Goldman information session in college. The keynote speaker (a well known strategist there) said that they have a strong preference towards atheletes as well. She said that they have demonstrated ability to handle pressure and be competitive. Makes sense. Those traits are harder to cultivate in a person than trading knowledge.

Posted by oldtime on 11-11-11 01:45 AM:

What I don't understand is, why would any successful trader want a job?

Posted by Shanb on 11-11-11 02:24 AM:

Quote from Lucias:

The honest truth is that these prop firms aren't offering an acceptable deal for anyone who has even achieved a moderate degree of success in life. I mean I've not been hugely successful but I've been modestly successful enough to get comfortable and make enough to support my family and have a good job.

Yet, the average prop firm doesn't pay a salary and tend to be located in Chicago. There is no way in the world that I could relocate to Chicago without a salary. First, I'd give up a good living that I'd probably not be able to replace if the opportunity fail AND second I wouldn't have the money to even go.

What I'm trying to say Maverick is that no successful person would take one of these so-called great offers unless they were located in Chicago and no "unsuccessful" person would either because I tried both ways!

Before I had a decent job or anything to bother losing, I had a goal to take one of these types of deals but I didn't have the MONEY to move away from home and go live in another city.

Really, one professional trader gave me the advice and I think this is the best advice -- if you want to be a trader then the first you have to do is get a very high paying job and a lot of money.

One more thing.. the sports thing is outdated. I was reading an article on First New York where the owners were talking about.. It was written about 5 yers ago. They said "used to they looked for someone good in sports and math" but that today it wasn't enough. That today you had to have own edge... something like that...

They are not making a comeback. They have been around for 3 decades. In fact, we probably have only half of what we had 10 years ago. But there still are enough to satisfy any want in the marketplace. The honest to God truth is, the average ET'er is too damn lazy to seek them out.

[/QUOTE]

Life is about risk and reward...are you willing to take the risk for the potential reward? Ya know its obvious that firms like this are reaching out to younger people who don't have alot to lose at that point in their lives. If your comfortable with the status quo...remain comfortable. There are people out there who are going to go beyond the comfortable and push themselves to go out and get what they desire. There's always that chance that you will fail, but fuck what good is anything if you don't have to struggle and push to get it!

Posted by Maverick74 on 11-11-11 02:28 AM:

Quote from Shanb:

Life is about risk and reward...are you willing to take the risk for the potential reward? Ya know its obvious that firms like this are reaching out to younger people who don't have alot to lose at that point in their lives. If your comfortable with the status quo...remain comfortable. There are people out there who are going to go beyond the comfortable and push themselves to go out and get what they desire. There's always that chance that you will fail, but fuck what good is anything if you don't have to struggle and push to get it! [/B][/QUOTE]

Shan, you should tell Lucias your story.

__________________
"Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, she walks into mine." Rick Blaine

Posted by Chuck Rost on 11-11-11 02:52 AM:

^^This^^

Posted by Shanb on 11-11-11 02:31 PM:

Quote from Maverick74:

Life is about risk and reward...are you willing to take the risk for the potential reward? Ya know its obvious that firms like this are reaching out to younger people who don't have alot to lose at that point in their lives. If your comfortable with the status quo...remain comfortable. There are people out there who are going to go beyond the comfortable and push themselves to go out and get what they desire. There's always that chance that you will fail, but fuck what good is anything if you don't have to struggle and push to get it!

Shan, you should tell Lucias your story. [/B][/QUOTE]

When I read his post, I almost lol. I though he was describing me except for the fact that he said nobody would go through with it. Just shows you how different people judge similar situations or circumstances.

Posted by denner on 11-11-11 05:50 PM:

Quote from rosy2:

prop firms (where the firm backs you and you get a split; like mav has said) have been around chicago for a long time. there were oconnor and crt in the 70s; cooperneff, gbar, hull, sig in the 80s; a bunch now. They started as floor groups and got bigger.

whats foreign to me is when some of you think prop trading is where you have to put your own money up. I consider that a brokerage account.

I understand that, I'm familiar with all the firms you've mentioned (even knew some of the principals involved with crt, hull, etc..) My point was that 20 years ago it was a floor environment and the path to trading was vastly different from nowadays. Back then, you didn't just come right in on the ground floor running. Once things went all-electronic I noticed all of these kids trading from the get go. There's a big difference from now and back then.

Posted by Don Bright on 11-11-11 07:52 PM:

Quote from rosy2:

prop firms (where the firm backs you and you get a split; like mav has said) have been around chicago for a long time. there were oconnor and crt in the 70s; cooperneff, gbar, hull, sig in the 80s; a bunch now. They started as floor groups and got bigger.

whats foreign to me is when some of you think prop trading is where you have to put your own money up. I consider that a brokerage account.

Ah, this brings back memories...and a couple of points. When we were in Chicago full time, with our good friend Blair Hull (mentioned above), and CRT etc. - we, too had "employee" type traders who were willing to stand in pits or trade upstairs for a bit of a "salary" and some share of profits. As technology got better, we needed them less and less... and several of them went on to be independent traders.

The point I want to bring up is that we all, Blair, John Olegues, Oconnor's, all the gang... started the same way.... they engaged in the floor trading business model. We all put up some capital, then used the Clearing Firm's money to trade with, and kept our profits.... how do you think we all acquired enough money (from trading) to start firms in the first place? Certainly not by clerking for someone else (although a good start for many)..... but by risking a few bucks and running our own business model.

As I've stated many times, after this worked so well for us on the "other side" - we started Bright Trading (after years of Bright Securities and other enities)... to offer those entrreprenurial traders the capital and market access we enjoyed. Still working after 20 years, for those who don't want to buy a seat etc., (simple licensing now days, so much simpler and cheaper).

And, this model is not for everyone.... it is still in existence on the trading floors, but you all know that the trading floor experience has changed over the years. We are all "off-floor" traders - some as employees, some as independents.... if you're making money, you want to keep it, if you're not, well... you're not going to be around long in either environment.

With full respect to Maverick, he is right, there are many jobs in Chicago, and no one should be "geographically limited" (as my brother calls it)... heck, we had to move to S.F. and Chicago (from our initial base), just to make few $million, LOL. So, if you're serious about a trading job, go where the jobs are... if you want a career as an independent trader, put up some money (see article earlier), if you're somewhere in the middle, then try one of the other alternatives (Swift model, etc. in Canada)... all up to you guys....

There is no "fight" here, no "right or wrong" - just alternatives....

All the best,

Don

edit: Hello and props to Rosy and denner - might have been there when we were!

__________________
Don Bright (not an alias)
Bright Trading, LLC
http://www.stocktrading.com

Posted by Maverick74 on 11-11-11 07:56 PM:

I knew I could get you out of the cave Donny boy. It's all about using the right "buzz" words. Too easy.

__________________
"Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, she walks into mine." Rick Blaine

Posted by Don Bright on 11-11-11 08:02 PM:

Quote from Maverick74:

I knew I could get you out of the cave Donny boy. It's all about using the right "buzz" words. Too easy.

LOL, actually just nice to hear some sound logic from you old friend... you're doing your best to keep these guys straight... and nice to hear others from the"good old days" - it seems like only yesterday, taking that car to the train, then to the city, then to the CBOE, up all those stairs... having to go to the pits to keep track of our guys... stop them from getting stuck in "out trades" (LOL, LOL another story for another time).....

Hope you're doing well....

Don

__________________
Don Bright (not an alias)
Bright Trading, LLC
http://www.stocktrading.com

Posted by RawWorld on 06-30-12 05:29 PM:

Tower Hill

Just completed info session this week. Not sure whether this is a legit opportunity, but the trader I sat with had been there for 10 years and seemed to know what he was doing.

Does anybody have any good insight into this company? They said they had to revamp their training model, and the way they do business because their attrition was too high. They say they're focused on developing good traders.

Any input is appreciated. Thank you.

Posted by Maverick74 on 07-01-12 12:37 AM:

Re: Tower Hill

Quote from RawWorld:

Just completed info session this week. Not sure whether this is a legit opportunity, but the trader I sat with had been there for 10 years and seemed to know what he was doing.

Does anybody have any good insight into this company? They said they had to revamp their training model, and the way they do business because their attrition was too high. They say they're focused on developing good traders.

Any input is appreciated. Thank you.

Are you referring to Tower Hill Trading?

__________________
"Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, she walks into mine." Rick Blaine

Posted by EverythingIhad on 07-01-12 01:00 AM:

I have a friend going to this training camp at Tower Hill, what is the word on them please?

Posted by Traveler on 07-01-12 01:58 AM:

Quote from Lucias:

With a 10k daily loss limit trading futures directionally, I could probably average 5k per day and make up to 50k on a day at my best. Although sounds like they'd be trading quite a bit differently then taking directional bets..

If you can do that, you don't need a prop firm!

Posted by Traveler on 07-01-12 02:05 AM:

Wonder if they'd be interested in a 45 year old professional gambler who's made 7 figures lifetime from pro gambling. Not poker. Willing to start at the bottom.

Posted by Maverick74 on 07-01-12 02:54 AM:

Quote from Traveler:

Wonder if they'd be interested in a 45 year old professional gambler who's made 7 figures lifetime from pro gambling. Not poker. Willing to start at the bottom.

Blackjack, sports, horses?

__________________
"Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, she walks into mine." Rick Blaine

Posted by Traveler on 07-01-12 03:07 AM:

Mostly online casinos up until 2006. Now just mis-priced casino promotions in land-based casinos.

Posted by Wide Tailz on 07-01-12 05:11 AM:

Quote from oldtime:

What I don't understand is, why would any successful trader want a job?

It's good to surround yourself with others who share your drive, desire, and purpose. Solitary trading gets lonely.

You also develop much faster when surrounded by others who are successful in different ways.

Posted by RawWorld on 07-02-12 09:46 PM:

Re: Re: Tower Hill

Quote from Maverick74:

Are you referring to Tower Hill Trading?

Yes.

Posted by Don Bright on 07-03-12 12:22 AM:

Sad news, my brother just got out of the WSOP One Drop charity tournament. Made it to the last 24 against the very best players on the planet, but it was not to be. AK vs. KK in his last hand.

Just saying, as I noticed the reference to poker etc.

Don

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Bright Trading, LLC
http://www.stocktrading.com

Posted by white_goodman on 07-03-12 05:24 AM:

Quote from Don Bright:

Sad news, my brother just got out of the WSOP One Drop charity tournament. Made it to the last 24 against the very best players on the planet, but it was not to be. AK vs. KK in his last hand.

Just saying, as I noticed the reference to poker etc.

Don

yeah saw he was on the list of those playing, wasnt as juicy as a field as they were expecting, the pros stacked it in the end

Brian Rast making a nice run at it

Posted by Busta21 on 03-07-13 07:52 PM:

Quote from oldtime:

I know absolutely nothing about them and I already know they are a rip off.

There'a a piill that will make your penis bigger, but it's only available for men that seriously want it.

If there ever was a real firm hiring traders (and there never has been one) they would tell you how much, because that is the language of traders. How big is the account, what is my cut, what is your cut?

ooh, I have a bachelors degree, aren't I special! I knew that 100k I borrowed from the government would finally pay off.

I'm damn sure a self starter so this should be perfect for me.

And the great thing is, experience preferred but not required.

So far my only experience is posting on ET.

A rip off? Your bitterness is showing may want to tuck that back in.

Posted by marketsurfer on 03-07-13 08:01 PM:

Quote from Traveler:

Mostly online casinos up until 2006. Now just mis-priced casino promotions in land-based casinos.

Interesting. i am not a casino person, can you please explain what is a mis-priced promotion?

surf

Posted by esc_trader on 03-14-13 01:27 PM:

Have heard about this - casino effs up the math and does a promotion - guys swarm in and rob the place blind til the house figures out and closes it down.. ?

Posted by Busta21 on 03-15-13 01:07 AM:

So, anyone of you twitbags have insight or experience at this firm?

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