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-- Questions to Jack Hershey (http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?threadid=229669)
Questions to Jack Hershey
I am not an older detractor of Jack Hershey.
I recently found out one of my problem: I followed Jack's definitions strictly. This is one of the reasons why I can't put the pieces together!
Background information is here:
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...40&pagenumber=3
In case Snake deletes the above thread, I repost my messages here.
10-27-11 08:54 PM
Quote from jack hershey:
The trading fractaland its slower fractal.
begin to use the regular names for the nested fractals; your object is to build your mind.
By thinking in terms of middle you muddle.
My argument:
10-26-11 10:25 PM
In order to complete b2b2r2b and r2r2b2r (tape level), the Gaussian can be overlapped in some cases.
10-27-11 02:57 AM
Trend overlaps, why can't Gaussian overlap???
Difficult to see the tape sequence (b2b2r2b/r2r2b2r) in a ES 5 min chart. The tape sequence in YM 2 min chart is a bit clearer.
We need to have one dom tape and one non-dom tape to draw a traverse. By gaussian definition, tape completes with either r2r2b2r or b2b2r2b. This ES 5 min chart snippet shows the incomplete sequence of tapes.
If the gaussian of 2 parallelograms(which are tapes in this case) can overlap, both the sequence (of the tapes) can complete.
The ES 5 min chart snippet
The corresponding YM 2 min chart
I use nkhoi's scripts.
For nkhoi's pv_prvol_v04:
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...&pagenumber=207
Download the latest NT scripts here:
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...&pagenumber=222
Quote from BenzMercedesSL:
Good! Lesson learnt. I need to think differently.
Jack sometimes writes something wrong deliberately.
__________________
-jack-
Another question is about rocket. I think this question blocks many people.
Every pattern has 3 moves: dom, non dom and dom.
Rocket seems to be an exception : no non-dom FF
Quote from BenzMercedesSL:
Another question is about rocket. I think this question blocks many people.
Every pattern has 3 moves: dom, non dom and dom.
Rocket seems to be an exception : no non-dom FF
Quote from BenzMercedesSL:
...
Rocket seems to be an exception :...
Quote from RCG Trader:
Look closer. The non dom is right on that chart.
Rocket, over 80 stoc, volume rising. Get in.
B2R, get out.
Don't over think this.
Quote from nkhoi:
rocket and iceberg already taken try 'faster fractal'
Quote from BenzMercedesSL:
Thank you for your information, RCG Trader and nkhoi.
Is the Traverse level gaussian correct in this chart (included Stoc, entry and exit)?
Is rocket related to Pace Acceleration mentioned in IR thread?
Tape builds traverse, traverse then widens to be a channel.
Due to fractal nature, bbt builds tape which then widens to be a traverse (i.e. rocket).
If the above is true, there will be an endless loop...
bbt's ff builds bbt which then widens to be a bbt's sf (i.e. tape)....
I probably over-complicate the stuff again...
Quote from BenzMercedesSL:
Is rocket related to Pace Acceleration mentioned in IR thread?
Tape builds traverse, traverse then widens to be a channel.
Due to fractal nature, bbt builds tape which then widens to be a traverse (i.e. rocket).
If the above is true, there will be an endless loop...
bbt's ff builds bbt which then widens to be a bbt's sf (i.e. tape)....
I probably over-complicate the stuff again...
Quote from RCG Trader:
No, the third bar, right on the end of your chart is the exit. That is you r B2R, do you see it now?
Quote from BenzMercedesSL:
Thanks, RCG Trader!
Is it correct?
Quote from RCG Trader:
Fractal too large. Go back to your original pic, and on that third bar where you see more red volume than the red before, that is a Red 2 Red. Exit your rocket right there. Try not to jump fractals, that is a very common problem with newbies.
Quote from nkhoi:
rocket and iceberg already taken try 'faster fractal'
Quote from BenzMercedesSL:
Yes, I always jump fractals...
The "B2R" mentioned in your previous post means :
B2B2R2"B R"2R2b2R
The trend overlap area, am I right?
You need to take this bar by bar. Don't over think. Jack dumps a lot of info on his students. Take it all in and slow it down. I had a Calculus teacher like that. His name Dr. Dean, and he had a PhD in Mathematics and was teaching first year Calculus to freshmen EE students. He was brutal. And he would not stop either. So when I ran into Jack, it was like Dr. Dean. Do not try to take it all in at one time. Build upon each concept.
Quote from RCG Trader:
Close.
U left on a B2R. The trend can reassert itself.
Hold till a R2R, that is two bars over. See where you have higher red than the bar before it? That is a R2R. Keep at it,you are doing fine.
Quote from BenzMercedesSL:
I should exit at the last red bar ("16:10-16:15" 5 min bar) on the chart as R2R appeared at that moment. Am I right?
Quote from RCG Trader:
You have it, grasshopper
Quote from BenzMercedesSL:
Thank you for your help, RCG Trader!
In 4 Oct 2011 EOD, a DOM up traverse completed and then a NON-DOM down traverse started .(we saw R2R)
In 5 Oct 2011 morning, we expected a NON-DOM down traverse continuation.
I am wondering where the FTT of that NON-DOM down traverse is.
If FTT occurred @ 9:55, the last dom tape of that down traverse had only 1 bar. This should not be possible because the smallest observable thing (tape in this case) is formed by at least 2 bars.
When I switched to YM 2 min chart (9:52-10:00 area), I only saw r2r (the sequence was incomplete)
Did I miss something?
In the attached chart,
Black thin line: up tape and down tape
Blue medium line: up traverse
Pink medium line: down traverse
Quote from RCG Trader:
Sigh......
Rocketeer till you triple your account. I have shown you where to get out, and you know how to get in. What else to you require?
Re: Re: Questions to Jack Hershey
Quote from Polix:
frenchfry is that you?
why are you ashamed to reveal yourself?
what is your previous a;ias?
mine were outsource;SnakeEYe;Polix(is present)
i didn`t have any,ever.
You smoked too much, drank too much, or both! Re: Re: Re: Questions to Jack Hershey
Quote from frenchfry:
No, it's not me but I'm looking forward to see how this plays out.
But to be honest I also had my moments like MercedesBenz where I thought something can't be correct. If I apply this stuff in a strict manner it doesn't seem to work. And I could even prove it. But then suddenly Jack was able to pull another rabbit out of his hat and show me that I haven't noticed "the obvious".
So Mercedes hit the gas and smoke some rubber!
I read all the posts in IR thread. There are many terms from Spyder, e.g. Pace Acceleration and Peak Volume. Do they still valid?
At that time (around 2008), Spyder was undergoing "Iterative Refinement". Some of the information might not be correct.
What do you think?
From http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...257#post2015257:
08-01-08 12:34 PM
As for those that seem to 'get it' , I would venture to say you are giving them too much credit. Making money is a far cry from truly understanding these methods. You can tell by most blotters that very few are doing SCT on even the most coarse of levels. As Spyder said, it is a long process to get there.
From http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...&pagenumber=282
Quote from Spydertrader:
Three ways exist for Price to move from Point One to Point Two.
David, my two cents below. Sorry if I confuse you or anyone for what I am going to say. I stand to be corrected. 
Quote from BenzMercedesSL:
Is rocket related to Pace Acceleration mentioned in IR thread?
Pace Acceleration was a concept created by Spyder. Rocket was a term used by Jack way back in 2003 to define Traverse-level trends where the 5-min bars exceed 10,000 contracts each (probably too low for our time now).
Rockets usually occur at the open and hit the R on the way up or S on the way down. Right after a Rocket is a CCC. That is why we have plenty of time to exit on low-risk Rockets.
A Rocket could look like a Tape but it is not. The non-dominant Tape component of a Rocket could move in dominant direction too. I know it sounds incorrect but I never make it up as that was what Jack said in some of the old posts. Furthermore, in extremely fast pace, Tape component could become unobservable on 5-min bars. Look at your example. See where you annotated 2R in the corrected chart.
The strategy for Rockets is to enter long when Stochastic (14 1 3) cross above 80 line and exit when cross below 80 line. Similarly, for falling Rockets, enter short when Stochastic cross below 20 line and exit when cross above it.
Tape builds traverse, traverse then widens to be a channel.
Traverse widens to create volatility expansion. A Traverse does not widen to be a Channel. Traverses build Channel.
Due to fractal nature, bbt builds tape which then widens to be a traverse (i.e. rocket).
See above.
If the above is true, there will be an endless loop...
bbt's ff builds bbt which then widens to be a bbt's sf (i.e. tape)....
BBT is the same as Traverse level. TAPE is Channel level. Sub BBT is Tape level.
I probably over-complicate the stuff again...
Quote from BenzMercedesSL:
I read all the posts in IR thread. There are many terms from Spyder, e.g. Pace Acceleration and Peak Volume. Do they still valid?
At that time (around 2008), Spyder was undergoing "Iterative Refinement". Some of the information might not be correct.
What do you think?
Quote from SK0:
David, my two cents below. Sorry if I confuse you or anyone for what I am going to say. I stand to be corrected.
Traverse widens to create volatility expansion.
Quote from BenzMercedesSL:
From http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...&pagenumber=282
Quote from Spydertrader:
Three ways exist for Price to move from Point One to Point Two.
I only think of one way: dom direction with increasing volume
Quote from SK0:
The Peak Volume is still good. Jack talked about it yesterday.
On adjacent bar basis with no PRV, I would not use it alone to decide whether to switch market mode. It is better to wait for IBGS/Doji Pass or failure to resume on the next bar.
My questions:
1) If your trading methods are so good, how come you've only entered one public trading contest...coming in dead last and leaving with a 28% loss?
2) If you don't like contests, why not enter your trades on a site like Collective2?
3) You seem to fancy yourself as a humanitarian. Do you sleep better at night knowing hundreds of people have wasted countless hours of their time (not to mention their savings) trying to decode your unsubstantiated, cryptic methods?
Quote from BenzMercedesSL:
Thank you for your information, SK0!
I am still confused with this:
Quote from SK0:
Traverse widens to create volatility expansion.
My understanding on Pace Acceleration:
A dom traverse widens to create volatility expansion. After the VE, a non dom move follows and then dom move. This creates an accelerated traverse within the original traverse. Then the dom traverse promotes to a channel....
The IR post that gave me the idea on Pace Acceleration was here:
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...rse#post2156780
The corresponding chart they were talking at that time was:
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/attac...&postid=2155163
Is this a special case in SCT?
It's a shame really. I hate to see anyone waste their time. There are quite a few good traders that post at least occasionally on ET. Find out who they are and read their posts instead. And, Jack, I wish you well. I really do. It's just that what you are doing, in my personal opinion, is harmful.
Quote from jsp326:
My questions:
1) If your trading methods are so good, how come you've only entered one public trading contest...coming in dead last and leaving with a 28% loss?
2) If you don't like contests, why not enter your trades on a site like Collective2?
3) You seem to fancy yourself as a humanitarian. Do you sleep better at night knowing hundreds of people have wasted countless hours of their time (not to mention their savings) trying to decode your unsubstantiated, cryptic methods?
Quote from SK0:
David, my two cents below. Sorry if I confuse you or anyone for what I am going to say. I stand to be corrected.
I think you might have something there.
Quote from BenzMercedesSL:
Thanks, RCG Trader!
Is it correct?
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/attac...&postid=3341500
This is my endless channel.
When I started to learn the SCT, I read the posts in Spyder's threads first (in ET and other trading forums). At first, I only knew some elements called pt1, pt2, pt3, FTT, BO and FBO etc. I didn't know what they were and their relationship.
Then, during my 1st iterative refinement (IR), I knew:
pt 1 (also FTT) -> pt 2 -> pt 3 -> FTT (sequence would be repeated)
My 2nd IR:
pt 1 --(decreasing V, then increasing V)--> pt 2 --(decreasing V)--> pt 3 --(increasing V) --> FTT
My 3rd IR:
pt 1 --(decreasing V then increasing V)--> pt 2 --(decreasing V)--> pt 3 --(increasing V to confirm pt 3) --> FTT
My 4th IR:
The market is fractal. The pt 1 can only break out and go to the pt 2 on the same fractal.
My 5th IR:
pt 1 --(decreasing V then increasing V)--> pt 2 --(decreasing V)--> pt 3 --(increasing V to confirm pt 3) --> (permission to look for signal of change) --> FTT
My 6th IR:
pt 1 --(decreasing V then increasing V)--> pt 2 --(decreasing V)--> pt 3 --(increasing V to confirm pt 3) --> (permission to look for Traverse Level's signal of change) --> FTT
I am still doing my IR now. Studying 'Ten Cases', gaussian, VE, M1, M2.... My current goal is to do a thoroughly annotated chart.
It is difficult to filter the valid and invalid information found in the old threads. Many terms were introduced at that time....
Quote from baro-san:
I think you might have something there.
Quote from BenzMercedesSL:
By the way, I am not dkm.
Quote from jack hershey:
I have great empathy for those who come upon trading and do their wondering out loud.
Trading to take the market's full offer can be a wonderful experience. It is the standard I attain.
My methods are beyond good and they deserve consideration.
So I have a lot of responsibilities to give care to so that as few people harm themselves when it is possible to prevent harm.
Your questions do not have much to do with improving your trading skills. And it looks like you may need to consider how educating yourself could be improved.
My mission has always been two fold: Have people learn to make money and support the learning of others by passing it forward. They also help solve local problems with their profits and new found time.
I do what I do and go where I go to forward my goals.
For you to realize your potential in life as well as becoming more rational, consider bearing down and beginning carefully to build your mind.
Use the knowledge and skills acquisition that has served you well in the past.
Find someone who can keep you focussed on doing the ordered drills for conducting the process of learning to take the full offer of the market.
You have one goal. To repeat HOW you learned to read or drive a car or learned to ski. BUT you need to apply this same process to build a fully differentiated mind.
For reading you have an alphabet, words formed from letters, their definitions. You know the rules of forming a language from words by using them in an order of appearance. Sentences form complete thoughts and, as used in paragraphs, sentences cooperate to increase the sense and sensitivity of the transfer of information.
Writing books is helpful for understanding how information is transferred. Do some after you are rich.
No one starts with a clean slate or a blank mind. I recommend seeing the "Temple Grandin Story" since she started with a mind that had little wiring.
Your mind has a disadvantage and that often happens to people. So what? Glance through a couple of books on learning and a couple on how the mind works. Get acquainted with your status and what it will take for you to get to an even starting point.
Trading is like learning a body of skills and knowledge just like you did in fifth or seventh grade. You can do it. BUT maybe you will fail of your own accord.
One outcome is having the text of a partnership all written out and put in force. The person you line up to keep you on track, will explain how partnerships work and that you are a partner with the market.
You do not have to trust me but you do have to trust the market. You can't do trust by deciding to trust. For example, I could never trust you at all. You aren't going to help others or spend resources to solve local problems. You are a "taker" instead.
You even failed to decode my unsubstantiated cryptic methods. Those who use them have a key that was denied you and you know that.
Building a mind to excel is done by adding inference after inference, if and only if, they are of "like kind" (Keynes) and there is an underlying logic (Carnap). What emerges is a spectrum of adjacent pieces that is complete and finite. In other words: "A fully differentiated mind" for partnering with the market.
So a rule set does not ever appear. A system appears. It has three parts: a structure, a process within the structure and results come form conducting the process within the structure.
You ski anywhere and it is a supreme partnership with the terrain and the snowy surface. It is way beyond imagination. The full technicolor experience didn't just happen because your daddy gave you skiis and dumped you on the top of mountain.
In a couple of weekends you can be a skiing expert. But there is an IF.
You never take a lift. You side step up only. You only slide down sideways with your skiis parallel. At some point you get too tired to continue and the sun is setting.
The IF is this: Work is required.
The work is the decoder. By working, you do the substantiation just like every other expert practitioner of any methods ever used. The cryptology expertise you gain is simply because your mind gets organized and what is in it now gets moved to the back row and blocked from view because something which has been worked for takes its place.
It may be that right now your mind can only evaluate what you have not worked on in terms of what is in your mind presently. If you see something that has a name then that is what the reference is that is in your mind. Most people tell me they are seeing gibberish. This reference system is not good for them to be stuck with.
4 out of 5 do not begin. They cannot take the personal risk involved. They may have figured out there are no shortcuts for building the mind. If there are no shortcuts they are not investing time. They stick to reading and finding shortcuts for other methods.
The complex problem of putting new things in a mind along side other previously extablished beliefs is a real Tiger.
Curiously, I entered a contest to find out how it worked. So did 12 others. 13 of us had to participate; a person coluldn't drop out. Fortunately for me, nowadays, it keeps a lot of people out of my world.
I need to be viewed in way that is self policing. The greatest aid I have in this is the beliefs of people whose standards are the CW of the financial industry. I fit into the "unbelievable" category of the CW of the financial industry. Witnessing one of these members of the industry try to nail me in a live market is something else.
Regarding item 3, and so you can sleep at night, please suggest to these people you mentioned that they ask questions of someone who lives near them and possibly meet with that person since that person knows he will learn more about what he does by helping others. We have a global critical mass at this point.
__________________
Xspurt
Quote from jack hershey:
Regarding item 3, and so you can sleep at night, please suggest to these people you mentioned that they ask questions of someone who lives near them and possibly meet with that person since that person knows he will learn more about what he does by helping others. We have a global critical mass at this point.
Quote from jsp326:
What about the first two questions? You'll probably duck them again, but there they go:
1) Why haven't you entered any more trading contests after getting humiliated back in 2002?
2) Why not post your live signals. Brag all you want about how incredible your method is...no serious trader will care a bit until they see some evidence.
As for the rest of your spiel, I could read stream-of-consciousness self-help stuff in all sorts of other books, blogs, etc. That's not what I asked for.
__________________
Xspurt
So you guys are in here to try and debase an 80 year old. Give yourselves a hand.
He did post a live signal. I got a pm from him with a signal that worked out just as he suggested.
Why do you expect him to hand feed you money? Is it not better to teach someone to fish, then to give them a free fish?
If you get nothing out of his system, then don't follow it. However, people keep coming here and asking for a free system, he is one of the few that provided one.
I could teach someone to trade, but after the time, effort, and money I put into developing my system, I would not do it for free.
Maybe Jack likes to write a long answer, but maybe he is a genius. Do you expect a genius to think like you or me? If his system is long and complicated, do you think the code for those high frequency bots are short and simple? If trading were easy, everyone would do it.
Quote from jsp326:
What about the first two questions? You'll probably duck them again, but there they go:
1) Why haven't you entered any more trading contests after getting humiliated back in 2002?
2) Why not post your live signals. Brag all you want about how incredible your method is...no serious trader will care a bit until they see some evidence.
As for the rest of your spiel, I could read stream-of-consciousness self-help stuff in all sorts of other books, blogs, etc. That's not what I asked for.
Quote from oraclewizard77:
He did post a live signal. I got a pm from him with a signal that worked out just as he suggested.
Why do you expect him to hand feed you money? Is it not better to teach someone to fish, then to give them a free fish?
If you get nothing out of his system, then don't follow it. However, people keep coming here and asking for a free system, he is one of the few that provided one.
I could teach someone to trade, but after the time, effort, and money I put into developing my system, I would not do it for free.
Maybe Jack likes to write a long answer, but maybe he is a genius. Do you expect a genius to think like you or me? If his system is long and complicated, do you think the code for those high frequency bots are short and simple? If trading were easy, everyone would do it.
xioxxio?
Quote from BenzMercedesSL:
By the way, I am not dkm.
Quote from jsp326:
What about the first two questions? You'll probably duck them again, but there they go:
1) Why haven't you entered any more trading contests after getting humiliated back in 2002?
Most of the time, my interest was trading using POA's of professional people.
I magine you are a professional and you want to help the less fortunate, BUT you cannot afford a day a week to do that. I connected to a limit of fifteen such people. I used their POA's given to me to trade their accounts. their wre two consequences: they helped others one day a week and they built their retirement capital.
Think of it as fifteen concurrent trading contests where they had proven to themsleves that they could contribute time to help others.
WOM is how this happened for these people.
My best stock trading day of 17 points net on 100,000 shares was spread over 11 of these type accounts. Maybe you can imagine this as winning the lottery that day.
2) Why not post your live signals. Brag all you want about how incredible your method is...no serious trader will care a bit until they see some evidence.
My live signals are monitored by various people. They coattail trade me and others (regulators (SEC, inparticular)) see me trading multiple large accounts and frontrunniing the market. They convince themselves I am doing something illegal. They issue citations. At that point, my broker's lawyers have to straighten them out. So they get straighterned out and the citations are removed.
Thus what you wanted to happen as you sit on your ass, has happened and the people involved have been straightened out on their mistakes.
As a matter of fact we traded live for over a year in a thread and you were here and you missed out. check the date you joined and check the dates for that year and see that they overlap.
As for the rest of your spiel, I could read stream-of-consciousness self-help stuff in all sorts of other books, blogs, etc. That's not what I asked for.
Reading is a fool's game as has been pointed out to you. You do not "get it" that passive types of wasting time do not work. Things you read may make money for others and NOT you, however.
You are valuable member of ET; you show how failure works.
What I show is that there are many ways to make money. I also show the most valuable paradigm as yet published. People who feel empowered to judge and make the mistaken judgements also prove how the financial industry is screwed up. Now, we have a long term Depression to show for it and we have a non regulated industry that lacks integrity.
I and others who have done the WORK to fully differentiated their minds are parasites of the on going fiasco (see page 199 of Larry Harris). We continue, with immunity nowadays to frontrun the big boys and they push us in taking our profit segments.
You crossed the line in the sand and can no longer reason through how markets work and how to trade them. You built an erroneous belief system which is not differeniated. The consequence is that you and your kind are denied the knowledge and skills of trading the markets.
No one cares, it turns out. 90% of potential traders turn out as you did. Too bad for you and your kind. Get some popcorn and keep reading along side your buddies and the SEC
Quote from oraclewizard77:
He did post a live signal. I got a pm from him with a signal that worked out just as he suggested.
Why do you expect him to hand feed you money? Is it not better to teach someone to fish, then to give them a free fish?
If you get nothing out of his system, then don't follow it. However, people keep coming here and asking for a free system, he is one of the few that provided one.
I could teach someone to trade, but after the time, effort, and money I put into developing my system, I would not do it for free.
Maybe Jack likes to write a long answer, but maybe he is a genius. Do you expect a genius to think like you or me? If his system is long and complicated, do you think the code for those high frequency bots are short and simple? If trading were easy, everyone would do it.
Quote from jprad:
When it comes to Jack here's the best advice I can give you.
Which sense do you rely on when you're not sure of a certain food that you're about to consume has gone bad?
Do you rely on your sight or your sense of smell?
Why, it's the later, of course. Our brains were hardwired a long time ago to trust our sense of smell over every other sense.
When it comes to anything Jack writes, remember this: if it looks like candy but smells like bullshit it ain't candy...
__________________
"Those that know ain't saying, and those saying don't know." - E. A. Neumann
A bear since 1958 and proud of it.
"As a matter of fact we traded live for over a year in a thread and you were here and you missed out. check the date you joined and check the dates for that year and see that they overlap."
Can anyone link to a year of live trading by Jack?
or that the SEC issued and withdrew citations for "frontrunning"?
As they say......I might have been born on a turnip truck, but it wasn't yesterday........... or something like that......
Quote from workwithus:
xioxxio?
If I had to pose a question to Jack, it would be "Why do you put such an irrationally small amount of capital at-risk on each trade?" I know the stats on my own strategy pretty well and they don't stack up to what Jack claims he's able to do, yet I also know that if I used an aggressive position-sizing method like Kelly or optimal f, with a single year's worth of trades and compounding capital, I would be the entire market. If Jack's strategy is so bullet-proof, he should be risking 50-60% of his capital on each trade (again, according to the aggressive position-sizing methodologies, given that my own strategy results in a 40-50% recommended amount of capital at-risk per trade, not that I take it, but that's what I should do to maximize total profits over time) and making commensurate gains.
Put simply, on the basis of Jack's own claims regarding his accuracy and trade frequency, it is impossible to deduce any outcome other than that he should be many, many times richer than the richest people alive. Anyone who can't see that is blind.
Monkey, look at the people who actually traded this method, made the calls, and posted their results in their journals, monkey.
Quote from baro-san:
I think you might have something there.
Quote from SK0:
Pace Acceleration was a concept created by Spyder. Rocket was a term used by Jack way back in 2003 to define Traverse-level trends where the 5-min bars exceed 10,000 contracts each (probably too low for our time now).
A Rocket could look like a Tape but it is not. The non-dominant Tape component of a Rocket could move in dominant direction too. I know it sounds incorrect but I never make it up as that was what Jack said in some of the old posts.
I found out the rockets on 26-28 Sept 2011.
Any comments?
Rocket on 27 Sept 2011
Rocket on 28 Sept 2011
Quote from xiaodre:
Monkey, look at the people who actually traded this method, made the calls, and posted their results in their journals, monkey.
Quote from jack hershey:
For others who are doing the drills. (THE "work") .....
__________________
Vienna
For me it is easy to get lost in the fine tune stuff, so I'm only been looking at a 15 min and 5 min chart of ES and drawing channels. For me the 15 min chart is ideal to identify the dominant trends. It's also very easy to spot early when the market is rangebound on this fractal.
I've been papertrading for a while with this strategy: Identify main trend on 15 min chart. Only enter at the right trendline on the 15 min chart, OR if price-volume pattern is a bit unclear, wait for a traverse in the dominant direction and enter on a pullback, which is the same as point 3 on the 5 min chart. Stop behind last swing high-low, target left trendline.
I've had better results with this than with anything else I've tried. So I'm wondering what Jack or people who actually trade channels and price-volume think about this approach? Is this simpel method something that is working with real money and over time?
Quote from Mushroom:
For me it is easy to get lost in the fine tune stuff, so I'm only been looking at a 15 min and 5 min chart of ES and drawing channels. For me the 15 min chart is ideal to identify the dominant trends. It's also very easy to spot early when the market is rangebound on this fractal.
I've been papertrading for a while with this strategy: Identify main trend on 15 min chart. Only enter at the right trendline on the 15 min chart, OR if price-volume pattern is a bit unclear, wait for a traverse in the dominant direction and enter on a pullback, which is the same as point 3 on the 5 min chart. Stop behind last swing high-low, target left trendline.
I've had better results with this than with anything else I've tried. So I'm wondering what Jack or people who actually trade channels and price-volume think about this approach? Is this simpel method something that is working with real money and over time?
Quote from Mushroom:
For me it is easy to get lost in the fine tune stuff, so I'm only been looking at a 15 min and 5 min chart of ES and drawing channels. For me the 15 min chart is ideal to identify the dominant trends. It's also very easy to spot early when the market is rangebound on this fractal.
I've been papertrading for a while with this strategy: Identify main trend on 15 min chart. Only enter at the right trendline on the 15 min chart, OR if price-volume pattern is a bit unclear, wait for a traverse in the dominant direction and enter on a pullback, which is the same as point 3 on the 5 min chart. Stop behind last swing high-low, target left trendline.
I've had better results with this than with anything else I've tried. So I'm wondering what Jack or people who actually trade channels and price-volume think about this approach? Is this simpel method something that is working with real money and over time?
Quote from logic_man:
If I had to pose a question to Jack, it would be "Why do you put such an irrationally small amount of capital at-risk on each trade?" I know the stats on my own strategy pretty well and they don't stack up to what Jack claims he's able to do, yet I also know that if I used an aggressive position-sizing method like Kelly or optimal f, with a single year's worth of trades and compounding capital, I would be the entire market. If Jack's strategy is so bullet-proof, he should be risking 50-60% of his capital on each trade (again, according to the aggressive position-sizing methodologies, given that my own strategy results in a 40-50% recommended amount of capital at-risk per trade, not that I take it, but that's what I should do to maximize total profits over time) and making commensurate gains.
Put simply, on the basis of Jack's own claims regarding his accuracy and trade frequency, it is impossible to deduce any outcome other than that he should be many, many times richer than the richest people alive. Anyone who can't see that is blind.
Here is a drill in the form of doing a deductive proof.
logic man cannot work through this type of market consideration, apparently. He is excused.
The obvious is obvious to the Scientific mind.
Nothing is obvious to the betting mind.
Here is one sentence for you to figure out, deductively:
Three up/down pairs do NOT work (Boyd and his OODA); only two left/right/left triads will work (the PEP and its applications using MADA).
Play geometry and do a proof (deductive) on one page of paper.
Once you put enough info on a sheet of paper, take two new sheets and write out each approach. Use P and V columns for each.
Treat yourself to this cardinal analysis of the causal factors for CW trading failure.
As you do up/down pairs, look really closely to see the dilemma of the CW oriented trader.
Really look at the consternation this person must face as he sees his pairs are NOT CONSISTANT.
I have rarely seen anyone who went very far down the CW rabbit hole be able to recover from the way the mind's belief system support continued confusion. Look at RN's most recent chart posting.
This is an old chart I posted here. Cases, containers, doms -non doms, fun chart.
Jack, want to dissect this and correct any mistakes ?
Quote from jack hershey:
This is the most common subset of those who wedge in an invention or are coming from a price only type strategy.
Your earings doing 1/3 of the approach approach the high end trades in the CW orientation. Two people epitimize this level: nodoji and RN.
If you have followed the prof, you see his non time approach is about 1/6 of the PEP approach.
You substitute for annotating Monitoring and analysis) is to use a family of timed bars. This means you do not connect with the faxt that trends overlap; you just see the "retrace" function in CW.
PEP and its apps swith to the "reversal function" which ends and begins the next trend.
Notice that in all of Covel's books he does not "get" this. Why? It is simple; he only asks skilled people the questions he thinks up as a lagging BO trader. He is still in the up/down, entry/exit world.
Multi family chart people lock themselves into time. To escape time colud be done as logicprof did but he missed the deduction and did induction instead.
See if you can see three fractals all event based on the 5 minute chart. Use volume to introduce yourself to trading fractals that have a neutral bias.
compressing experience
Up to 11 charts... this is pretty cool, I could locate most pt 123's and FTT's on the Gaussians before even drawing a single price bar. Want to get to the point where this becomes automatic...
Vienna
__________________
Vienna
Compressing experience
Did not take the attachment
__________________
Vienna
I found that the rockets could be a trading fractal thing or a faster fractal thing.
What should I look at to differentiate those rockets? Any drills?
Quote from jack hershey:
There are a lot of flaws in your reasoning. Too bad.
Study up on market "capacity".
Also read up on "sweeping" accounts
PEP has three applications to handle these limitations.
Also check out the types and sizes of markets in the various application categories.
Finally repair your definition of a full time trader. Mine is: A full time trader is a person who has not as yet learned to read and partner with markets to take their full offer.
Since you haven't had the experience of trading with skill, you are still an "outsider". That will probably never change for you.
If a person, other than that characterized in Behavioral Finance, recognizes someone making money by demonstrated trades and their results for over a year, then the person pays attention and gets into learning to learn and learning to trade.
We spent about six years making a record of how to learn PEP and its three applications. All reduce to one pagers.
Quote from logic_man:
At any given minute of the day, a trader can sell 50 ES contracts with minimal slippage and 100 ES contracts with definitely less than 1 ES point of slippage. If you could take 3X the daily ATR on the ES with 50 contracts for the past decade, you would be the richest person in the world or one of them. Then, if you exhausted the capacity of the ES, there are, at any given minute of the day, a good 200-300 stocks within the S&P index which are showing strongly correlated directional and size moves to the index itself, which means another relative ocean of liquidity is open to a trader who knows how to "take the market's offer". Then, there is the NQ and the TF and the YM, the European indices, correlated currencies, etc., etc.
If you are going to "take the market's offer", it makes no logical sense not to take it in the size in which it is given, regardless of the instrument in which it is being given.
Also, just to point out the flaw in your "reasoning" about my skill level. If I weren't "trading with skill", my critique of your approach would probably focus on the market analysis and your trade entry, management and exit approaches, in an effort to debunk them. Notice, though, that I don't even have the need to debunk them because it's too trite a critique and not worth my time. The fact that I focus on the necessary deductions that stem from your performance claims, as it relates to position-sizing, shows that I am WAY past caring about your techniques, which I find useless because my "skill level" is way past needing any help from you.
Quote from maxpi:
arguing with psychopaths is talking to a wall.. they are naturally skilled at NLP command-embedding speech, they are three years old emotionally and they only want to be aggrandized. If you are not one of their trained followers you are not anybody worth their time...
Quote from BenzMercedesSL:
Rocket on 28 Sept 2011
Quote from xiaodre:
So you guys are in here to try and debase an 80 year old. Give yourselves a hand.
Quote from logic_man:
Most definitely. I just like to do the math on someone who talks big, to see if it's feasible that the talker is achieving what he claims. Clearly, no trader can compound an account to infinity, but, for all practical purposes, a trader who was able to accomplish what Jack claims SHOULD be able to take home hundreds of thousands of dollars per day.
But, yeah, whenever I read his posts, I thank my lucky stars that I never came across them when I was young and stupid enough to have thought they could be worthwhile.
Question to Jack
Hello Jack,
quick question please: you posted this in another thread...I am aware this was a fast "sketch", just making sure I get the point...the questions are in the attachment.
Thanks as always!
Best,
Vienna
__________________
Vienna
Quote from jack hershey:
For others who are doing the drills. (THE "work") You are building your minds to be able to "read" the market just ahead of how and when it unfolds. Soon you will recognize the interlocking order of events on the fractals surrounding your hold/reversal trading routine called MADA.
The movie "Margin Call" is a good example of the two groups who trade the markets. Those who know how the market works and those who do not. I have never seen a financial firm where those in control knew how the market works. Their underlings were powerless.
See "Moneyball" to find out how an astute money manager rises like creme to the top by letting his stat guy (Pete) coach his players to refine and develop their demonstrated skills.
Watch "The Temple Grandin Story" over and over until you figure out how a mind is built from scratch.
I had myself wired last night for an 8 hour recording session. The raw results will be 6,000 pages long. Tuesday, I get the prescription for my new appartatus. From that I will have a specifically tailored machine attached to my oxygen collector so I will not be permitted to stop breathing at night ever a gain. I had my first expeience of a machine pumping up my blocked system to the point that my system woke me up each time the pressure got released through my closed mouth which was blown open to wake me up. It is such a cool thing to get wired up to make a machine handle the symptoms by brain wasn't handling.
I get my bionic eyes sandpapered in laser surgery on the ninth.... Got got trifocal lenses and I regrew my cornea's after they punched about 70 small holes in my pupil boundaries for pressure control (to keep my retina's attached).
Popcorn is such a good idea for the non learning public who just reads and stays in the CW of the financial industry. Watching them do their Behavioral Finance errors and shortcomings is a lesson to us all. (See "BF or BS?" on Behavioral Financial home page. Also read the mistaken pseudo science of Andrew Lo of MIT and Congressional Testimony fame.
B2B 2R 2B ....lol
How neat it is to move from three up/downs to two left/right triads.
The Holy Grail turns out to be an orientation that is orthogonal to the CW.
What a cool paradigm shift!!!!!!! The blind can't see it at all and they prove they can't.
Party time for me.....
Quote from jsp326:
I am the egg man, I am the egg man, I am the walrus, goo goo ga joob.
How about this: you or a cult-member, er, student, sign up with Collective2, Covestor or any 3rd party service and post signals for one year.
Come back then and we'll talk.
Re: Question to Jack
Quote from Vienna:
Hello Jack,
quick question please: you posted this in another thread...I am aware this was a fast "sketch", just making sure I get the point...the questions are in the attachment.
Thanks as always!
Best,
Vienna
__________________
Vienna
Re: Question to Jack
Quote from Vienna:
Hello Jack,
quick question please: you posted this in another thread...I am aware this was a fast "sketch", just making sure I get the point...the questions are in the attachment.
Thanks as always!
Best,
Vienna
Quote from jack hershey:
We did that in ET.
Get up to date.
Let's not talk anymore, you are too far behind the times.
Re: Re: Question to Jack
Quote from jack hershey:
The log I jotted down was an events based list.
All I wanted to achieve was a log of the simplest order of events.
__________________
Vienna
Re: Re: Question to Jack
Quote from jack hershey:
The log I jotted down was an events based list.
__________________
Vienna
Re: Re: Question to Jack
Quote from jack hershey:
The log I jotted down was an events based list.
__________________
Vienna
Quote from jsp326:
Links please. If you can ramble incessantly, it shouldn't be hard to provide hard evidence instead of obfuscation and unsubstantiated claims.
Hi Vienna:
I listed the letters and what they stood for on my brief log.
Under time you see a list of events.
Events 1 through 9 are a short trend.
Events 9 to 17 are a long trend.
each trend is completed by 9 events.
If you have a chart of "the Pattern" it is the same as the log.
You posted a chart that is a lot of bars and it represents a period where the market is going short and accelerates while doing so.
I was trying to explain how two parallelograms formed a cycle. I didn't get much of anything across as usual.
Recently, I posted an alternative request that a person do a proof to figure out how the pattern is the only possible solution to how the market works.
Imbedded in that proof is the cause of the consternation of the CW type traders who only see up/down pairs.
My objective was simple. I wanted to provide the information for soing the drill to learn and get into the mind the cycle of the market.
If it is possible for a person to imprint his mind with the events of a cycle by repetition, then he has a foundation upon which to build.
The giant and humungus secret of expert trading is to understand that trends MUST overlap and they do when a reversal begins and they do NOT when a retrace begins.
A point 1 of a parallelogram is the magic moment of an FTT and a beginning of overlap on a reversal.
Left is the dominant movement of price. right is the non dominant movement of price.
A person who is LOCKED INTO an up/down world is permanently screwed from being wealthy unless he is a salesman in the financial indusrty.
I tried with single letters and single words and the most simple container to help anyone learn to build a foundation for learning how markets work.
The market is cyclic. the cycle can be deduced and put into symbols.
B2B 2R 2B followed by R2R 2B 2R.....
The above gibberish as it is called, means something. It explains the ORDER OF EVENTS OF MARKETS.
Think about one thing for a while: Why must trends overlap?
The answer is that trends fail in the middle of their container.
This revelation is very significant.
The mind IS capable of figuring this out and making use of it to make more money than any movie so far has presented.
Start in the middle at FTT and work your way outward in two directions until you see things repeating.
Begin with a simple set of trends; see their interconnection and see the rigid interlocking of fractals that results.
This is the great thing about markets; most people's minds are so screwed up they cannot think in any way but how they were trained by Sister Wanda.
DO NOT MEMORIZE. Instead deductively build your mind with a set of inference that is deduced and matches what may be seen
Re: Re: Re: Question to Jack
Quote from Vienna:
T= Trough
My last question relates to TROUGHS for the PrIce Column.
A trough is simply a bar that makes a LL relative to it's 2 adjacent bars, correct?
Thanks,
Vienna
Quote from jack hershey:
Hi Vienna:
I listed the letters and what they stood for on my brief log.
__________________
Vienna
Quote from RCG Trader:
Rocketeering.........
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...&threadid=14129
Re: Re: Question to Jack
I would like to see this nut Hershey put a book out.
Quote from jack hershey:
The log I jotted down was an events based list.
Under time, all I did was number to order of events.
I just listed what happens on "the Pattern" for a cycle which would include a long and a short in any order.
Your P,V is a more complex chart illustration.
All I wanted to achieve was a log of the simplest order of events.
My feeling is that if a person starts with a foundation, he can add building blocks as required to achieve having a fintie and fully differentiated mind.
The B2B 2R 2B is three parts. Part one involves tend overlap beginning and ending. B2 is those events. A peak of volume goes to a traough at the moment the price crosses the former RTL of the prior trend. This is called the BO of the RTL (at a volume trough) Price is a portion of the way through its first movement called B2B. B2B means Balck to Black and thus is a long first move of a trend. At the B after the 2, the price arrives at point 2 of the new parallelogram.
When you hitched the price volume chart to the log list, you didn't do yourself a favor in any way.
I can never imagine what anyone will do to what I post. I correct it to contribute to getting a common page for both of us.
The market is very simple. Its representation has to be simple as well.
It would be very illogical for the market to turn out any other way since is is so large and has so many parasites called the financial industry.
The financial industry lobbies and cheats to make up new things faster than the regulators can keep them honest.
What is so neat about all of this is that the huge markets are, in fact, self policing and these perpetrators kind beat themsleves in any way. when they do something like serious big time cheating (swaps being tranched), they really get screwed and take all the financial planners and their clients with them.
To have our immunity to this takes scientific integrity on the level of the laws of gravity, and field theory, etc....
the log, the pattern and all the sets are a system based on how the basic and fundametal building blocks of Science must be deployed.
cheaters and shortcut types can't get this. covel immersed himself for 8 years in the societiety and culture of financial industry preactioners. And he became one of them.
we do not do that. we come to markets and just take out of the market the full offer of the market.
We build the simplest rationally based foundation.
It is a container that can signal the beginning and end of a market episode based upon events that can strech or shrink like an accordian.
For me I want along inventing many many "outsider tools" so as an adjunct I had 10 to 12 leading indicators of the price I made money trading. Some are very humorous in their construction.
But the serious business required a foundation. And on top of that go the building blocks. thisstuffis deductively reasoned out. It could be no other way.
To do thePEP and it applications, you must relax and begin with a clean slate. It is like going into a new science; do not bring any baggage.
the variable of the markets has to be a binary vector. I know some people think they have figures out I am using poor ill defined terminology. that turns out to be their problem and they go away and never return.
A binary vector has magnitude and direction in a non-continuous mathematics. No probability is used by obeying the market's dictate of long or short. How steep the market is tipped is the magnitude. the slope is the direction: long or short.
money can only be made with price change.
Make a 5 cycle log. Use the one letter symbols I have provided.
Implant in your mind the foundation.
__________________
Trend Following Trading
Covel Books: Trend Commandments, The Little Book of Trading, The Complete TurtleTrader & Trend Following
Trend Following Documentary Film: Broke: The New American Dream | Covel Podcast Episodes
Quote from Vienna:
Jack,
I got your meaning! See attached...sorry for being dense. Sometimes I have to draw something to understand it....
thanks for your patience
Vienna
Jack,
Do you think the Score sequence in following The Pattern graph you posted is incorrect?
I moved the score numbers in The Pattern graph as shown below.
Quote from SK0:
I moved the score numbers in The Pattern graph as shown below.
Quote from BenzMercedesSL:
Thank you, RCG Trader.
Quote from RCG Trader:
I realized that a lot of people on this site have no education, and let's understand that a college degree does not make one educated, it makes one trained, and there is a huge huge difference between the two.
Quote from RCG Trader:
You fellas do realize this if PVT, right?
PVT, Rocketeer, Iceberger, SCT. Follow the program!
May be you are right that people need to learn to trade Rocket, Iceberge in four levels, Slaloming, Failed Resumption, and If1/If2 APA Protection SCT strategies, etc etc, step by step.
Good job vienna decoding jack's "gibberish"(lol).I believe event 16 under the price column should be an "L" instead of an "U".Also jack pretty much spelled out the direction of the two containers he logged.Per jack, "Under time you see a list of events.
Quote from Vienna:
Jack,
I got your meaning! See attached...sorry for being dense. Sometimes I have to draw something to understand it....
thanks for your patience
Vienna
Quote from SK0:
Oh, Steady. You sound like my oldy-day drill sergeant.
Am I a moron on PVT because of my question pertaining to the Score numbers on the chart?
Few weeks ago, I put up a picture of Jack's desktop display (9-15-2009) in TL. Somebody hammered me saying I lied because Jack never use indicators.
I believe that the Pattern is basic and universal. When you have the pieces gelled together, whether PVT or SCT or SK0 Methodology, they are all the same.
Quote from workwithus:
Good job vienna decoding ....
__________________
Vienna
Re: Re: Re: Question to Jack
Quote from Trend Following:
I would like to see this nut Hershey put a book out.
SKO the difference between the numbers I use and yours is that I relate to the beginnning of trends and you relate to the end of their overlap (the BO place of price).
The reason I posted the deductive problem was to try to switch people over the "reasoning" to put things in their minds.
The Pattern emerges as the only possibility.
Getting a pattern to happen where the point 1 is in the middle of a container and point 2 is "outside" that container is the very fine refinement that makes a whole system gel.
It is like the hexagon in organic chemistry.
Or how an egg can become a chick. The chemical content of before and after do not match, unless........... the unless is having to go to sub atomic pieces.
Take the time to use your six pieces from the two triads and force them into the three pairs of CW. Use dominant and non dominant in your notes and find the obstinent flaw that up/downers cannot get past when trying to build their minds. They cannot build their minds into a systemmic routine because of thsi huge flaw. Look at RN's chart and see his struggle.
As you read anything of covel's you see him time and time again showing the limitatiions of his constituency in that they use "statistics" based on induction to "irrationalize" what they can't do.
He begins with a guy that can make 20% a year. Sit down and find out how long it would take anyone to make money if they used their own money to grow wealth. Making 20% on capital is making 6 points on a one contact trade during about 20 to 40 minutes of price movement in ES. Covel champions a guy who spreads this 20% out over a year.
Lets say it takes longer. Make 6 points in as long as you want. It is NOT going to be a year to do.
The paradigm shift occurred about 50 years ago. No one in the financial industry noticed except for brokers who coattailed us. And the SEC finally got computers and programmers who could not differentiate experts from insiders.
I borrowed 100% to buy a crusing sailboat (US 122, King's cruiser from Gothenburg Sweeden). The term was interest only for two years. I had to pledge in street name 100% stock which I could trade.
For the last 6 months I traded consecutive B's on the NYSE to get a rise out of the fairfiled County Bank and Trust staff. No murmers, even.
then I went in to sell less than half the stock to pay off the entire principal. The guy made the list and used a portion of each holding. He sent my remaining stock to my broker (it was worth much more than the original colateral).
Did anyone notice that I used the toy for two years and it was free in the sense that my colateral more than doubled? No Nada.
This is like covel working as the french detective in a farce where he has the lead role. This guy spent 8 years writing "Trend Following" and actually produced nothing and he never met any experts (there are none in the book) and he doesn't even mention volume or many many other terms in the index.
Have any of your guys ever been to trader's expo and listened to a panel od "Experts You Have Never Heard Of" Why hasn't Covel run into any of these guys? How come I know all their cell phone numbers?
This stuff he writes also sells, apparently. But who buys it? I know. salemen who are selling mutual funds. Sales guys who sell anything that moves to ignorant people. financial crisis originators. maybe regulators. IB's.
I took my free pass to "Margin Call" out of my genes today as I was walking over to open our gates. That whole crew of screw offs didn't get it either. They are just Phoenix's who rise out of the ashes and dupe yet another group of ignorant people.
If you make the pairs from the triads, you will ge a real AHA. Do you think covel could make the list? Nope he can't.
He just calls me names. LOL.
Quote from Vienna:
Hey, be kind! It became pretty clear once I realized that jack had not responded to the specific chart I had just posted but was laying out the simplest way the pattern completes.
Yes, you are correct about the error- sorry...moving too fast. It was correct on the drawing and wrong in the tabulation.
Corrected V2.0 attached
hth, Vienna
Re: Re: Re: Re: Question to Jack
Bat s*** crazy.
Quote from jack hershey:
Currently I have a five book suite on trading reduced to about 12,000 draft pages. It will remain an inhouse adjunct. Your PH editor's boss was assigned to me (in 48 hours) about four years ago. I declined.
To get serious, I am now involved in two books.
One deals with 7 watersheds that interrelate. How fifty years of ranching (and it's photography) have affected this environment is the theme.
My other book with three other authors, will be a 2 milliion press run (and distributed free of charge); It deals with the numero uno problem of the US government and the worldwide military. A cure for PTSD as applied to mulitple deployed boots on the ground. This pre post tested program is viseral and a dramatric response to the futility of war and the ignorance of the brass at the Pentagon.
If you wish you can look at my most recent book which unloaded 400,000 copies in 5 months. Google under the suffix .au
trend folloing does not work. My substitute is trad monitoring and analysis which you term gibberish. you happen to be incorrect on trend following and you are incorrect to dismiss trend monitoring and analysis.
One of the books in the suite focuses on neuroplasticity and explains the differences of what you and your kind preach and how an assortment of experts DO extract the market's offer using a variety of deductive techniques.
Try writing a book with volume in the index. LOL ......
__________________
Trend Following Trading
Covel Books: Trend Commandments, The Little Book of Trading, The Complete TurtleTrader & Trend Following
Trend Following Documentary Film: Broke: The New American Dream | Covel Podcast Episodes
Quote from TIKITRADER:
This is an old chart I posted here. Cases, containers, doms -non doms, fun chart.
Jack, want to dissect this and correct any mistakes ?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Question to Jack
You can't stand that he has more followers than you have.
Quote from Trend Following:
Bat s*** crazy.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Question to Jack
Quote from Trend Following:
Bat s*** crazy.
Jack H's Pending Book
Jack,
Can't wait to read your book on US military's "police the world "
strategy.
I've come to believe in the dangers we (USA) create because of this strategy - including economic decline.
I'm 66 & for all of those years we've been the only country spending & fighting wars in the way we have.
Your Friend & Admirer,
cowpok1027
__________________
cowpok
Quote from jack hershey:
So cool.
....Now notice if you are "getting it".
__________________
Vienna
isn't he under investigation by its
Quote from jprad:
When it comes to Jack here's the best advice I can give you.
Which sense do you rely on when you're not sure of a certain food that you're about to consume has gone bad?
Do you rely on your sight or your sense of smell?
Why, it's the later, of course. Our brains were hardwired a long time ago to trust our sense of smell over every other sense.
When it comes to anything Jack writes, remember this: if it looks like candy but smells like bullshit it ain't candy...
irs*
Thanks Jack.
I did not degap this chart which shows the FTT was not correctly placed.
Degapping shows the correct bar for the FTT and Pt 1.
Also the volume correction at the right of chart with the ongoing lateral continuing the pt 2 to pt 3 of that fractal.
Appreciate your corrections.
Quote from TIKITRADER:
Thanks Jack.
I did not degap this chart which shows the FTT was not correctly placed.
Degapping shows the correct bar for the FTT and Pt 1.
Also the volume correction at the right of chart with the ongoing lateral continuing the pt 2 to pt 3 of that fractal.
Appreciate your corrections.
Thanks for starting another thread that can only be described as an abortion to logic.
Mercedes, may you contract an STD for gracing us with yet another Hershey malarial flop-sweat.
__________________
Spread, Relative Value, and Correlation Trading Instruction from a Professional Trader. The only thing that matters are Clients making money IN LIVE MARKETS. Why not interview my clients for yourself on an independent basis. My typical client is an outright directional trader looking to pick up an industry-recognized specialty technique. http://www.spreadprofessor.com
Your name, site name, postings, all is sexual innuendo with you. You're on the wrong site.
Quote from bone:
Thanks for starting another thread that can only be described as an abortion to logic.
Mercedes, may you contract an STD for gracing us with yet another Hershey malarial flop-sweat.
Jack,
Would you be so kind as to review one more chart.
ES 5 minute today.
Annotate anything you see to correct, add, highlight.
Volume field left open for anything you wish to add, although the moves in volume are highlighted.
Gap removal was not done here, just connected the move.
Thank you for your time.
I guess your real question (before tomorrow's chart) is: "is the last up-leg done?". Good question for Hershey!
Quote from TIKITRADER:
Jack,
Would you be so kind as to review one more chart.
ES 5 minute today.
Annotate anything you see to correct, add, highlight.
Volume field left open for anything you wish to add, although the moves in volume are highlighted.
Gap removal was not done here, just connected the move.
Thank you for your time.
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/attac...&postid=3347105
Quote from baro-san:
Your name, site name, postings, all is sexual innuendo with you. You're on the wrong site.
__________________
Spread, Relative Value, and Correlation Trading Instruction from a Professional Trader. The only thing that matters are Clients making money IN LIVE MARKETS. Why not interview my clients for yourself on an independent basis. My typical client is an outright directional trader looking to pick up an industry-recognized specialty technique. http://www.spreadprofessor.com
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Question to Jack
Quote from baro-san:
You can't stand that he has more followers than you have.
__________________
Trend Following Trading
Covel Books: Trend Commandments, The Little Book of Trading, The Complete TurtleTrader & Trend Following
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Quote from bone:
Mercedes, may you contract an STD for gracing us with yet another Hershey malarial flop-sweat.
Quote from BenzMercedesSL:
Nice to meet you.
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...threadid=230009
Quote from BenzMercedesSL:
By the way, I am also 'insane'. (Einstein's Insanity)
__________________
Spread, Relative Value, and Correlation Trading Instruction from a Professional Trader. The only thing that matters are Clients making money IN LIVE MARKETS. Why not interview my clients for yourself on an independent basis. My typical client is an outright directional trader looking to pick up an industry-recognized specialty technique. http://www.spreadprofessor.com
Jack and his "method(s)" are to be ignored.
graeigoriast,
Go away, seriously what is wrong with you? You need help. Go play with your leapster.
Quote from graeigoriast:
Scientology for traders
Quote from Wide Tailz:
Fascinating stuff here.
It looks just like classical technical analysis (channeling, volume leading price, breakout retracements, higher lows, etc.)
Complicated language for the same old edge (which still works).
Funny thing about tech analysis is most people gravitate to price patterns, rather than the backbone of the strategy, which is just trend reversal signals.
Going further, elliot wave principle is pretty much hated by 90% or traders, yet is brutally accurate in the right situations. It took me a year of study just to understand the compound nature of the waves. It took another six months of mistakes to understand that certain situations are very, very uncertain, when it is not possible to solve for a wave count.
I'll probably get my nutz kicked for posting this.
Prechter did win a trading championship back in the day, using Elliot Wave.
To win in the market, you have to go where no one is. Stay in phase with the market and out of sync with the suckerz.
Wait, what happened to the stuff on Jack's tax lien?
Oh well, back to the Kool-Aid.
http://viralstash.com/financials/ja...o-the-tax-man-3
Quote from jsp326:
Wait, what happened to the stuff on Jack's tax lien?
..
A chart for today with the main channels and FTT:s I could spot, and an area where I was a bit lost. Any comments from Jack or somebody else are welcome.
Quote from Mushroom:
A chart for today with the main channels and FTT:s I could spot, and an area where I was a bit lost. Any comments from Jack or somebody else are welcome.
Quote from nkhoi:
you were in a retrace (non dom move) that was peak (max out) volume of the retrace move.
What about this:
Quote from Mushroom:
Thanks for the reply. But in real time I thought it was difficult to get confirmation that I should get out of the short that I entered 12.35 in time but stay in the short that I entered around 14.35.
We have a winner:
Quote from baro-san:
What about this:
Hi mushroom,
There are some improvements which will drop into palce for you if you do some cut and pasting over the weekend.
Take a few weeks (Mondays through Fridays, for example) and print them out as clean P, V charts.
Next, degap the charts by gluing them togehter.
Now you have a long chart with 405 bars and, further, you have eliminate the overnight machinations of non RTH's.
The task is to examine how "carryover" works.
To research this you can look at my postings of the various parts of the daily e-mails I used to send out. Two of the daily features were tomorrow's news and the carryover of various fractal levels of the market. Occasionally For detractors I occasionally posted the sequence and timing of the next day's trades as well.
By having tomorrow's news you knew what to expect at given times of the day. Mosre importantly, by having the carryover, you always knew how to get in on the open and make the first multiples of the day.
Now, you have to learn to do carryover yourself and then make use of it each day.
Here is a 'tell on your chart. You do not annotate volume until you get into trouble.
By not creating fear and anxiety at the beginning of each day, you get to remain more rational as the daay goes on.
So I am answering your question by defining and solving the problem that lead to your question.
The Pattern 0on each fractal carries over from day to day and it does NOT have anything to do with the non RTH's.
These ware two big beliefs that you may not have in hand. One way to get them is to accept what the market says. As you do so, then you will find your partnership with the market begins to contain TRUST.
It is important that trust does appear at some point.
As you paste together several clean weeks of 405 bars each and do the required degapping, you can then begin to discover the interlocking fractal relationship by doing all bars relative to each other.
You chart is very poor that you get from your source. Too bad. If you have the 10 cases annotated automatically, you would see much more on the chart.
I took hahahaha guy through the experience of seeing his crude charts have the added degrees of freedom that automatic internals management provides. He didn't get it as we all saw and probably did not catch on to. So life goes for the ignorant.
Focus this weekend on doing the 405 bars from bar one to bar 405. Notice how charts merge to carryover the interlocking fractals. As you do this you will also see how missing internals screws you over and over.
Presently you are not annotating what is observable. You are annotating what you feel like. By just becoming descretionary about doing annotating, you wind up inventing something that does not work.
Elsewhere there is a forum and thread on how the foundation was laid using the cases and deductive reasoning. Print, read and hi lite this to eliminate descretion and rebuild the inference in your mind.
It is tough for me to be dealing with ET these days. I am in a place in my life where it is hard to keep up with the ills of old age. I am actually a very capable and helpful person despite what you continually read about me as posted by people who who have mistaken what they think I said.
My posts are very dense in information content. There is a lot to take in and keep straight. But luckily, after you read the same thing over and over it does take on a precision and completeness.
Watching at criticizing me is a fun thing for some kinds of people. They get the consequences and I have some more humor to read.
Try to imagine what would happen if my results were all public. Try to imagine what it would be like if those I had POA's results were made public. Long ago they were. lol ......
Quote from baro-san:
What about this:
Quote from Mushroom:
Great post! I didn't think about the bar at 10.40 as a valid point 1. I could see the bar was an ftt, but not by much, and I was already anticipating a longer retrace, so I was looking for a point one/fft to come later. But I guess since black volume picks up around 11, it's already a first dominant leg of a new channel. Your way of seeing it solves my problem, so I guess it's correct
Thanks Stepan, although I recognised the b2b real time, I didn't think about how it effected the drawing of the channels.
My coloring is wrong because pricebars are "standard", volume is "Jack style". Probably not a good combination.
Jack, I didn't draw the channels subjectively on purpose, I drew them the way I interpret the rules, but I'm gonna check them out more carefully.
But wouldn't you agree that there is a subjective element (skills) when you choose which channels that are most important? For me it gets to messy if I draw every single channel. See attached (probably missed some). For a trained eye it's maybe not a problem but if I draw too many it's difficult for me to distinguish which one's shows the dominant trends. When I looked at a video presentation by one of your "students" who were trading on course level he only drew the main channels and traverses.
Quote from Mushroom:
Thanks Stepan, although I recognised the b2b real time, I didn't think about how it effected the drawing of the channels.
Quote from jack hershey:
Hi mushroom,
Take a few weeks (Mondays through Fridays, for example) and print them out as clean P, V charts.
Next, degap the charts by gluing them togehter.
Now you have a long chart with 405 bars and, further, you have eliminate the overnight machinations of non RTH's.
The task is to examine how "carryover" works.....
Quote from stepan7:
Volume is the key.
Look on 'The Pattern" by baro-san
and Jack's "clean_page_4"
Quote from DB_sezwhat:
Quote from Mushroom:
I was expecting that pattern, but I was so caught up with this idea that you draw a new channel from an ftt that I was thinking about the b2b as a "flaw" in a retrace.
I guess it's as simple as this: if you have a higher low in a downtrend you draw a new channel, and opposite for uptrend. Right? The idea that I had to look for a ftt to get a new point 1 made me neglect the b2b.
Quote from Mushroom:
Really interesting picture. I didn't understand the meaning of degaping, now I get it. Can you do that with all charting software?
) made it available to all.
Quote from stepan7:
@ 10:40 Bar is peaking red volume and FTT on lower fractal channel not drawn on my chart.
Quote from Mushroom:
I'm glad I posted the chart.
It seems that the essence is something like this: carefully drawing and correlating trend lines in the price and the volume panes highlight the market pulse, the pattern. We have to be careful not to invent rules. They constrain us into seeing what's not there, and making errors.
Quote from Mushroom:
I was expecting that pattern, but I was so caught up with this idea that you draw a new channel from an ftt that I was thinking about the b2b as a "flaw" in a retrace.
I guess it's as simple as this: if you have a higher low in a downtrend you draw a new channel, and opposite for uptrend. Right? The idea that I had to look for a ftt to get a new point 1 made me neglect the b2b.
Jack,
I posted another chart on 11 -2.
If you have time to review it that would be appreciated very much.
Thanks.
Quote from stepan7:
Look on Jack's "clean_page_4" upside down. New P3 is Higher/Lower P1.
You have clear P3 @ 11:25.
__________________
Vienna
Quote from Mushroom:
Really interesting picture. I didn't understand the meaning of degaping, now I get it. Can you do that with all charting software?
Quote from Vienna:
Slightly different here...do not have the premarket but have the carryover from the degapped chart...
hth
Vienna
Quote from Mushroom:
Thanks Stepan, although I recognised the b2b real time, I didn't think about how it effected the drawing of the channels.
My coloring is wrong because pricebars are "standard", volume is "Jack style". Probably not a good combination.
Jack, I didn't draw the channels subjectively on purpose, I drew them the way I interpret the rules, but I'm gonna check them out more carefully.
But wouldn't you agree that there is a subjective element (skills) when you choose which channels that are most important? For me it gets to messy if I draw every single channel. See attached (probably missed some). For a trained eye it's maybe not a problem but if I draw too many it's difficult for me to distinguish which one's shows the dominant trends. When I looked at a video presentation by one of your "students" who were trading on course level he only drew the main channels and traverses.
From Mr Black in the thread on traderslaboratory I got the impression that you can schematically describe the volume pattern of every cycle like this (se chart). Is this correct, or did I misunderstand?
Quote from Mushroom:
When you degap the chart, do you still annotate yesterdays HLC and levels like that first, or do you not use them?
__________________
Vienna
Quote from Vienna:
My platform (Sierra) automatically creates a seamless chart by shifting the past day so that the close matches today's open. So I scramble in the first 5 Minutes to move the carryover lines. For that reason, I leave only the most important lines on the chart the evening before.
I do project slow RTL's and LTL's, sometimes from weeks back, and major Swing highs and lows. Have seen the market complete a sequence right there and bounce back too often...
hth,
Vienna
Quote from Mushroom:
I understand, but when you draw major horisontal support/resistence levels, do draw both the levels on the degaped chart and the actual price levels from a traditional gapped chart?
__________________
Vienna
Quote from jack hershey:
There is no one who can reverse engineeer me.
__________________
-jack-
Quote from DB_sezwhat:
I'm not sure, but I think Sierra Charts does it the best. rainman2(great guy
Another attempt to draw the volume cycles.
Pattern taken from Nov 2 chart previously posted. with a little more drilling down into the chart
Quote from Mushroom:
Another attempt to draw the volume cycles.
hersh,have you applied this to daily ,weekly charts
Question to Jack
Hello Jack,
am drilling on the weekends, right now I am just blocking out price portions of the chart from Volume alone...working fast, trying to locate every FTT, BO, PT 2 , 3 and VE from the volume pane . Right now I can do this reasonably accurate in 10-12 Minutes per chart, blocking out level 2,3 and sometimes 1. I want to get to the point where I just glance at the volume pane and immediately "see" what price did all day... so the monitoring is keeping improving with practice, I can now see things right away that were invisible to me months ago.
Question re beginner Level of trading (and I am sorry if you probably answered this numerous times over decades):
Right now, I am trying to catch the FTT's and then hold as long as indicated (ideally to the next FTT).
Regarding the FTT itself:
1. Is it recommended to trade EOB at the beginning? Enter at the open of the bar after the FTT?
2. When do you wash? If you enter EOB and exit when the Bookmark is taken out, you get some losses (not washes). I find the reversing thing hard to do with EOB entries, and find I get whipsawed. What do you recommend if entering End of Bar?
Thanks as always!
Vienna
__________________
Vienna
Could only follow the end of the session. Tried to annotate more details. As usual, the market is more difficult for me to read in the afternoon.
To me the 15.50 bar looked like a reversal forming. There was r2r2b with decr-incr-decr, lower high, FTT, inside bar, and then the 15.55 bar broke out to the downside - before it quickly reversed and screwed everybody that were short. If you try to trade ftt:s and can't nail them to the tick it looked like a good place to enter short, but obviously wasn't. Comments welcome.
Quote from ammo:
hersh,have you applied this to daily ,weekly charts
Trades are important to get straight and to have the ease possible to carve them and take the offer.
Regardless of the fractal you use, it is important to take advantage of each turn.
I use 10 to 12 leading indicators of the ES 5 minute chart. Most are discoveries or inventions.
To go from a potential beginning trader to expert takes a month or so of purposeful work. BUT it does not turn out that way for each and every potential trader.
There are some good illustrations of how my eyes move as the day unfolds. I do MADA over and over as a habit in this silo (PEP).
I easily recognize adjacent bars and the case they are forming. My data feeds go to different platforms and each platform's detailed smaller displays are put in the correct place. On another screen my trading is like a gasoline pump arrangement. You can't read the dollars less than the thousands since they are moving so fast. 2 to 4 5-min bars is a segment of profits.
On the 5 min ES on one screen I am set up to M and A of MADA. On another screen, I just can't annotate since it stinks for that. The lines get stuck very easily in the wrong places.
I turn 18 inch screens 90 degrees and tell them I did it. Tall narrow screens. I keep white space or some color empty of data on the right side.
My annotation or indicator paths are the only things there on the right. I live in the near futture and the Present has already been put to bed for me.
MAC did the market PACE vs Vo and Ov charts for the Vo and Ov distributions. They are two dimensional gaussian distributions running both vertically and horizontally. The spine of the max's goes from lower left to upper right.
Having an orientation for forming bars, tells you how to carve when the carving event has arrived. We bookmark as well to optimize dealing with the last extra profits on a given frractal.
There is no betting. Instead you keep zooming in to see when the carving is happeneing.
For FTT to FTT, you do fewr trades and have longer holds. Divide 81 by a number between 4 and 7. You have a hold of 10 to 20 bars. It colud be under 10 if the PACE is there. And if midday it could be sluggish.
Let's zoom.
You annotated 1, 2 and 3 as numbers. The FTT to FTT vontainer is built and you went through two volume troughs: one at BO of RTL and one @ point 3. You see volume is increasing.
So zoom back over to the YM and see if the current observable trending is past the 3 and on the way to an ftt on that fractal. This probably two fractals faster than the FTT to FTT fractal. You can scan back on YM and count about 8 segments from the last FTT where you reversed. you can see that the color and vector directions are the SAME.
Glance over at the DOM and see the WALL ahead. This sets the value of the trade profit segment. Look at the OTR chart and check out the dominance of the pairs and see how the residence time on a given pair is in sync with the color of the end of the FTT to FTT you are trading. You are looking for the residence time to get a little shorter and the balance of residence to shift as the OTR reaches its extreme pair.
So when that happens hit T.
Right now mostly everyone is not seeing the market. You are still going through the process of setting up your computers to take the first look in your life at a market in operation.
First, you have to begin to build your mind. And it is important to see the 5 min ES in operation. You also have the 2 min YM which leads the ES.
As you see, this is too much to deal with. The message from you to you is that learning to carve turns comes later and, for now, you only do trades as you can best see them.
One thing is for sure, trades do not happen at ends of bars. When a bar near an FTT place gets as long as it is going to get is when you hit T. So put in the FTT on your screen where it will happen as soon as you have the parallelogram drawn using points 1, 2 and 3. Notice that at that time on YM there are a lot of parts still to come. But do put a big FTT out there to the right on YM which approximates where the trade on ES will be happening.
At this point, then, the whole world slows down and you discover that events are fairly far apart and there is enough time to do everything.
Some additional notes.
If you have S/S rolling, you can see the smart money. This means it is easier for you to front run the smart money. Some smart money does not know it is going to get left at the alter. Make the mental connection between the WALL on DOM and the velocity and acceleration of the S/S chart's envelope. The envelope also has a shape you can google to take a look at.
The car driving works on trading. You can watch the market just the same as you do things to drive a car. It is the same as the multi-picture image a fielder get as he finishes oiling his mitt after the batter hits the ball. Next he puts the lid on the spout of the oil can. He then puts a finger up to check the low altitude wind direction (remember the screw up at Bikini Atoll). He then adjusts his cap to deal with the stadium lights and begins to come out of his tortise shell to amble past all the blades of grass he is checking out for slippery slugs.
He will take into account the Budweizer photog's position to makes sure he gets the override on "this fielding is for you" ad campaign he will appear in.
Oh, he remembers he has to throw to home plate to win the world's series as a walk off. He adjusts his jock strap once more; the bulge counts before the throw.
The point is, all of trading turns into slow motion carving. All the snippets you need are in the 270 page thread of platform snippets.
We are broaching the questions coming from the mind to get more and more Swiss cheese holes taken care of.
Can you see the bar forming its extreme and after that the close slipping closer to the middle of the bar? Yes, it is now beginning to show up.
We have the correct bar don't we??? The rain in Spain is mostly on the plain. I think we've got it. The rain in Spain is mostly on the plain. Who cares? The Hershey hinge gives you another chance.
Forget spending 10,000 hours on this getting to expert. Just Do It.
Be Do Have.
Quote from jack hershey:
A trader's goal is to be able to work effectively in real time.
Quote from TIKITRADER:
Pattern taken from Nov 2 chart previously posted. with a little more drilling down into the chart
Quote from Wide Tailz:
I'm just in this game to make piles and piles of money.
Quote from Wide Tailz:
Wow. Before I discovered system trading, I used to analyze charts for hours, solving for elliot wave counts. It worked most of the time. And it wasn't half as complicated as what you posted.
Quote from jack hershey:
Compounding profits maybe something you will find out about.
Quote from TIKITRADER:
It gets better ...
Or maybe you like this one better. also posted about 2 years ago
Holy Jeezus!
I won't say anymore, as the hershey disciples will jump me for sure.
Jack, you talking about Greenwich, London, or southwest CT?
Quote from Wide Tailz:
Lol
I'd be interested to see the principle behind that. Like a one-sentence description of the essence of the Hershey method.
Quote from jack hershey:
To go from a potential beginning trader to expert takes a month or so of purposeful work. ....
...........
We have the correct bar don't we??? The rain in Spain is mostly on the plain. I think we've got it. The rain in Spain is mostly on the plain. Who cares? The Hershey hinge gives you another chance.
Forget spending 10,000 hours on this getting to expert. Just Do It.
Be Do Have.
__________________
Vienna
Quote from Lucrum:
Holy Jeezus!
I won't say anymore, as the hershey disciples will jump me for sure.
Really, at some point this just becomes sad.
Quote from Mushroom:
Could only follow the end of the session. Tried to annotate more details. As usual, the market is more difficult for me to read in the afternoon.
To me the 15.50 bar looked like a reversal forming. There was r2r2b with decr-incr-decr, lower high, FTT, inside bar, and then the 15.55 bar broke out to the downside - before it quickly reversed and screwed everybody that were short. If you try to trade ftt:s and can't nail them to the tick it looked like a good place to enter short, but obviously wasn't. Comments welcome.
jack can't do a sentence because he believes he can't,but this site is about tradin,he aint a journalist either,try to read tween the lines,in one sentence....,cut thru all the crap and just read the tape,goin up get/stay long.if thats done get/stay short til thats done
Quote from Wide Tailz:
Lol
I'd be interested to see the principle behind that. Like a one-sentence description of the essence of the Hershey method.
Quote from bmwhendrix:
Really, at some point this just becomes sad.
__________________
Vienna
Quote from GordonTheGekko:
Jack, you talking about Greenwich, London, or southwest CT?
Quote from ammo:
jack can't do a sentence because he believes he can't,but this site is about tradin,he aint a journalist either,try to read tween the lines,in one sentence....,cut thru all the crap and just read the tape,goin up get/stay long.if thats done get/stay short til thats done
Successful troll is successful....
The mod's should just delete this in order to control it, so if they allow it, the skys the limit...?
well said..........http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/orthogonal
Quote from jack hershey:
The approach is a system based upon a two part "in kind" orthogonal hypothesis set, where the leading observable volume indicators are binary vectors whereby "increasing" volume is paired with "continuing"trend trade and "decreasing" volume is paired with "change" trend.
Quote from jack hershey:
But the question of one sentence is not too bright.
Quote from jack hershey:
The one across from bell 32A (north of) on long Island sound.
I lived in the Rockridge neighborhood.
Off rte 1 go down the street (north) between the Esso station (probably Exxon nowadays) and the library; at the circle just go into the neighborhood.
__________________
Vienna
Quote from jack hershey:
....
Compounding profits maybe something you will find out about.
Quote from jack hershey:
11-07-11 06:48 PM
Should I put up the code for 10 leading indicators of price?
One Sentence Summary of the Hershey Method:
"The market offers a series of profit segments defined by a trapezoid constrained by the first and second support, and first resistance, of a trend channel of compound size, the breakout of which can be anticipated with volume inflections"
But I still can't figure out what CW means.
Here's Wide TailZ's one sentence summary of his trend following method:
"The market gyrates continually and some of the energy can be harnessed with a moving average, breakout filters, and a reversal entry / exit"
Conventional Wisdom?
Quote from Wide Tailz:
One Sentence Summary of the Hershey Method:
"The market offers a series of profit segments defined by a trapezoid constrained by the first and second support, and first resistance, of a trend channel of compound size, the breakout of which can be anticipated with volume inflections"
But I still can't figure out what CW means.
Here's Wide TailZ's one sentence summary of his trend following method:
"The market gyrates continually and some of the energy can be harnessed with a moving average, breakout filters, and a reversal entry / exit"
my greetings!
in theme about DOM http://www.traderslaboratory.com/fo....html#post65829
you have said
Also you have four games played where hands are shown. They are often done by a few people who work together to play the same game. An observer gets used to these players and front runs them with unseen orders.
Quote from Vienna:
:-)
I know exactly where that is...somewhere between Lake Avenue and Zaccheus Mead...go right at the circle and you reach the hospital in a few blocks
Quote from jack hershey:
11-07-11 06:48 PM
Should I put up the code for 10 leading indicators of price?
Quote from Wide Tailz:
One Sentence Summary of the Hershey Method:
"The market offers a series of profit segments defined by a trapezoid constrained by the first and second support, and first resistance, of a trend channel of compound size, the breakout of which can be anticipated with volume inflections"
But I still can't figure out what CW means.
Here's Wide TailZ's one sentence summary of his trend following method:
"The market gyrates continually and some of the energy can be harnessed with a moving average, breakout filters, and a reversal entry / exit"
Quote from SK0:
What do you suggest for someone trading BBT or point to point to compound profits? In the past, you suggested to add one contract every 30 points of profits. However, the market sometimes could behave in the space where we do not have sufficient knowledge and skills to handle. One or two mistakes could wash out most of the hardwork and pressure is compounding too. Thank you.
I edited the above.
Quote from jack hershey:
You have everything you need.
Now, you "put the pieces together".
Adding a contract every 30 points can be reasoned through.
It goes 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. Only once in life do you have to double your money to add a contract. Then it gets easier.
You say: "However, the market sometimes could behave in the space where we do not have sufficient knowledge and skills to handle."
If this is true for you, sideline until it is no longer true.
Also, consider doing a log so what you say never happens.
All bars form the same way and then they become one of the 10 cases.
On TN we have a container for the forming bar. To make it possible (simple) for TN programmers we campaigned tirelessly until they used a yellow box. Later we tricked them into a blue box by a cut and paste effort that worked for laterals. You will notice almost no other platform has complied with our demands. Cool, we have an edge.
getting the boxes on a chart is a deep indication of our devotion to the 10 cases and they simplicity.
So we have a space for forming bar behavior as you pointed out; it is yellow.
And you have annotated according to the pattern to have three observable interlocking nested fractals, all parallelograms.
The companion to all of this is your differentiated mind where inference exists. This set of inference matches one-on-one with the elements of the set that you see.
What you see is a very small set. So I may mention all of the elements in the set in this brief post.
At 300 seconds on your chart a new bar begins. It is a tick tall and in a yellow box as tall as the prior bar. The yellow box is in the three nested parallelograms.
Could it be any spookier or mystifying? No, Never.
But I will amplify.
In the smallest fractal container which you projected into the future, the yellow box will stay inside or not. If not, fan. If, hold.
Well for some of the cases the yellow box disappears. It does this the right way or the wrong way.
Write in your journal how each case does it the right way or the wrong way. Then scan the page and post it here.
Soon you will have an ftt on the fastest fractal. Then you draw another fastest trend segment using two adjacent bars.
If you are still inside, and the yellow box goes all the way to 0 seconds, then squish it mentally and annotate.
Do the same for blue boxes (laterals).
As you do the annotating of MADA, make sure you add small brief notes (to read) that tell you where you are in each nested fractal's series of movements. Also for VE's, remember what you wrote in your journal to accelerate that given VE no matter what level you are on.
Gradually, you can work up to multiple accounts all at the capacity of the market. Also you can trade point to point on faster fractals.
So now let us look at the ftt bar. It can be an ftt or FTT on any other fractal that is slower. Two third moves one inside the other and on a third move of the FTT fractal. This is a magic time because you are going to reverse and bookmark the FTT.
What Happens? You pull out your MAX (who posted them for you) PACE charts to know what to expect in the size of things. Go across the PACE row and find the peak of the gaussian for a given forming bar. Drop over to the DOM and write the value of the WALL in your log.
During the bar when the values get hit for the three things, reverse and write down the data and look at the new level of realized profits. Notice some new unrealized profits begin to accrue also.
After the first 1,000 times of doing these difficult things, you will have "put the pieces together".
Notice for each five minute bar in your log there are up to six rows.
Notice at the end of the day your log is 10 to 12 pages long and all of your accounts have traded according to the preformance of the market on that multiple of the ATR. (3 to 6 times).
Quote from jack hershey:
There are many successful approaches.
Moral: left/right and hold/reverse replaces up/down and entry/exit.
so ltl and rtl are left and right or upper lower trendlines,ftt is failing to to bounce back up or down to the upper/lower tl in the present channel,at this point,you start a new channel,this is what i am deducing from your post, the ve,volatility expansion,i'm miffed,is that the same as a direction change,and are you saying we will make it thru this fed printing for another 10-12 years before any serious market damage,if you are you've answered my question about you using this on weekly ,monthly.yearly charts
Quote from DB_sezwhat:
I'm not sure, but I think Sierra Charts does it the best. rainman2(great guy
, I thought I would continue the series. Jack has said many times to pay attention to all market orders greater than 50, so here is a de-gapped chart with a cumulative delta volume filter of trades > 50. So easy, even a p/a trader can do it.
Quote from ammo:
so ltl and rtl are left and right or upper lower trendlines,ftt is failing to to bounce back up or down to the upper/lower tl in the present channel,at this point,you start a new channel,this is what i am deducing from your post, the ve,volatility expansion,i'm miffed,is that the same as a direction change,and are you saying we will make it thru this fed printing for another 10-12 years before any serious market damage,if you are you've answered my question about you using this on weekly ,monthly.yearly charts
Jack, why the IRS investigation. 
could you tell me where can i find "chapter 4 of Harris"
from this thread
4. He is reading the "reaction to his play that is "out of the market". See chapter 4 of Harris..
Quote from stasbz:
could you tell me where can i find "chapter 4 of Harris"
from this thread
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...all#post1587604
Quote from jack hershey:
11-07-11 06:48 PM
Should I put up the code for 10 leading indicators of price?
Quote from Lucrum:
I'd settle for three.
Quote from DB_sezwhat:
Since my last few charts have been so well received
Quote from jack hershey:
So cool.
Probably one of the best demonstrations of smart money leading the herd.
This certainly illustrates how elegant it is to use a tool to be able to carve price by taking partial fills of the herd's chicken feed positions.
Quote from jack hershey:
lol ... very true.
My son was born there in '64.
__________________
Vienna
Quote from DB_sezwhat:
Here's a comparison of chicken scratch herd traders(<=50 cars) versus Hershey traders for the same time period of the previous chart.
__________________
Vienna
cumdeltavol is interesting and for most would seem to have a logical basis, but I keep hearing an old mentor of mine saying
"Beware the well chosen chart"
Don't take this negatively, I look forward to more examples.
I post this as I have monitored this before and found no edge.
But I am pretty slow and dense and ugly as well I am told.
So, keep them coming.
Quote from jack hershey:
11-07-11 06:48 PM
Should I put up the code for 10 leading indicators of price?
I think cumdeltavol is being put forth as one.
However, why not add trendline breaks on TDV as two
and positive divergences on TDV as three
and trend confirmations on TDV as four.
All may be valid, but don't mean much in theory.
If realtime real net profitable trades using the above can be
provided it would make my mortgage holder very happy.
Quote from Lucrum:
Yes already, if you don't have 10 how about 5?
eggs, scrambled eggs, egg salad, boiled eggs. sunny side up.
I can connect them all very logically, but they mean nothing to my bottom line.
Why? Because they are not relevant. There are a million
theories that make some sense but will not work.
I am sorry, but I am one of those guys that think you are full of it, unless you show me net real time $.
There are a few folks here that would have been better off pursing a
career in fictional writing rather than becoming charlatans and liars.
Nothing is new here for decades. Just charlatans trying to reinvent things for their benefit.
Quote from bmwhendrix:
cumdeltavol is interesting and for most would seem to have a logical basis, but I keep hearing an old mentor of mine saying
"Beware the well chosen chart"
Don't take this negatively, I look forward to more examples.
I post this as I have monitored this before and found no edge.
But I am pretty slow and dense and ugly as well I am told.
So, keep them coming.
Jack and his method(s) are to be ignored.
I see that at around 15:40 there was a positive divergence indicating further upside movement, but price collapsed.
That is the problem with a well chosen chart.
DB Please post some charts of your real time trades which might further enlighten us. Actually I do mean it. I am am always open to improvement.
Quote from jack hershey:
You have everything you need.
Now, you "put the pieces together".
Adding a contract every 30 points can be reasoned through.
It goes 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. Only once in life do you have to double your money to add a contract. Then it gets easier.
You say: "However, the market sometimes could behave in the space where we do not have sufficient knowledge and skills to handle."
If this is true for you, sideline until it is no longer true.
Also, consider doing a log so what you say never happens.
All bars form the same way and then they become one of the 10 cases.
On TN we have a container for the forming bar. To make it possible (simple) for TN programmers we campaigned tirelessly until they used a yellow box. Later we tricked them into a blue box by a cut and paste effort that worked for laterals. You will notice almost no other platform has complied with our demands. Cool, we have an edge.
getting the boxes on a chart is a deep indication of our devotion to the 10 cases and they simplicity.
So we have a space for forming bar behavior as you pointed out; it is yellow.
And you have annotated according to the pattern to have three observable interlocking nested fractals, all parallelograms.
The companion to all of this is your differentiated mind where inference exists. This set of inference matches one-on-one with the elements of the set that you see.
What you see is a very small set. So I may mention all of the elements in the set in this brief post.
At 300 seconds on your chart a new bar begins. It is a tick tall and in a yellow box as tall as the prior bar. The yellow box is in the three nested parallelograms.
Could it be any spookier or mystifying? No, Never.
But I will amplify.
In the smallest fractal container which you projected into the future, the yellow box will stay inside or not. If not, fan. If, hold.
Well for some of the cases the yellow box disappears. It does this the right way or the wrong way.
Write in your journal how each case does it the right way or the wrong way. Then scan the page and post it here.
Soon you will have an ftt on the fastest fractal. Then you draw another fastest trend segment using two adjacent bars.
If you are still inside, and the yellow box goes all the way to 0 seconds, then squish it mentally and annotate.
Do the same for blue boxes (laterals).
As you do the annotating of MADA, make sure you add small brief notes (to read) that tell you where you are in each nested fractal's series of movements. Also for VE's, remember what you wrote in your journal to accelerate that given VE no matter what level you are on.
Gradually, you can work up to multiple accounts all at the capacity of the market. Also you can trade point to point on faster fractals.
So now let us look at the ftt bar. It can be an ftt or FTT on any other fractal that is slower. Two third moves one inside the other and on a third move of the FTT fractal. This is a magic time because you are going to reverse and bookmark the FTT.
What Happens? You pull out your MAK (who posted them for you) PACE charts to know what to expect in the size of things. Go across the PACE row and find the peak of the gaussian for a given forming bar. Drop over to the DOM and write the value of the WALL in your log.
During the bar when the values get hit for the three things, reverse and write down the data and look at the new level of realized profits. Notice some new unrealized profits begin to accrue also.
After the first 1,000 times of doing these difficult things, you will have "put the pieces together".
Notice for each five minute bar in your log there are up to six rows.
Notice at the end of the day your log is 10 to 12 pages long and all of your accounts have traded according to the preformance of the market on that multiple of the ATR. (3 to 6 times).
Rocket backtest
I backtested the rocket on K200 and ES.
The rocket criteria are:
1. Long when macd(5,13,6) histogram >= 0.4 and stoc(14,1,3) K > 80 and stoc(14,1,3) D > 80
2. Short when macd(5,13,6) histogram <= -0.4 and stoc(14,1,3) K <20 and stoc(14,1,3) D < 20
3. Close long when stoc(14,1,3) K < 80
4. Close short when stoc(14,1,3) K > 20
I applied MACD and Stoc to both degapped and non-degapped data. I found there were very few rockets in K200, compared to ES. The summary of the rocket bactesting is attached here.
I currently focus on handling market sync and volume.
Re: Rocket backtest
Quote from BenzMercedesSL:
I backtested the rocket on K200 and ES.
The rocket criteria are:
1. Long when macd(5,13,6) histogram >= 0.4 and stoc(14,1,3) K > 80 and stoc(14,1,3) D > 80
2. Short when macd(5,13,6) histogram <= -0.4 and stoc(14,1,3) K <20 and stoc(14,1,3) D < 20
3. Close long when stoc(14,1,3) K < 80
4. Close short when stoc(14,1,3) K > 20
I applied MACD and Stoc to both degapped and non-degapped data. I found there were very few rockets in K200, compared to ES. The summary of the rocket bactesting is attached here.
I currently focus on handling market sync and volume.
ES rocket backtest result on degapped data
K200 rocket backtest result on non degapped data
K200 rocket backtest result on degapped data
This is a typical losing trade (blue rectangle).
Re: Rocket backtest
Quote from BenzMercedesSL:
I backtested the rocket on K200 and ES.
The rocket criteria are:
1. Long when macd(5,13,6) histogram >= 0.4 and stoc(14,1,3) K > 80 and stoc(14,1,3) D > 80
2. Short when macd(5,13,6) histogram <= -0.4 and stoc(14,1,3) K <20 and stoc(14,1,3) D < 20
3. Close long when stoc(14,1,3) K < 80
4. Close short when stoc(14,1,3) K > 20
I applied MACD and Stoc to both degapped and non-degapped data. I found there were very few rockets in K200, compared to ES. The summary of the rocket bactesting is attached here.
I currently focus on handling market sync and volume.
Jack, what do you mean by "camtasia"
"Also listen to the four games camtasia on the DOM"
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...dom#post1417424
Re: Re: Rocket backtest
Quote from SK0:
The attached is the Beginner Rocket document. You need to consider volume too. 10 to 12K WAS the fast pace. You could use MAK matrix 70% to adjust volume for comtemporary use. The short signal on your Stochastic (14 1 3) should be CROSSING below 20 level.
Quote from stasbz:
Jack, what do you mean by "camtasia"
"Also listen to the four games camtasia on the DOM"
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...dom#post1417424
Quote from Buy1Sell2:
Jack and his method(s) are to be ignored.
Re: Rocket backtest
Quote from BenzMercedesSL:
I backtested the rocket on K200 and ES.
The rocket criteria are:
1. Long when macd(5,13,6) histogram >= 0.4 and stoc(14,1,3) K > 80 and stoc(14,1,3) D > 80
2. Short when macd(5,13,6) histogram <= -0.4 and stoc(14,1,3) K <20 and stoc(14,1,3) D < 20
3. Close long when stoc(14,1,3) K < 80
4. Close short when stoc(14,1,3) K > 20
I applied MACD and Stoc to both degapped and non-degapped data. I found there were very few rockets in K200, compared to ES. The summary of the rocket bactesting is attached here.
I currently focus on handling market sync and volume.
Quote from ammo:
so ltl and rtl are left and right or upper lower trendlines
No, they are not. Try for just a moment to consider a different world than you are in. You have a LONG bias. Ease over to a NEUTRAL bias. In a lot of books the NEUTRAL bias is mentioned.
Now, you read my posts and you believe RTL is lower trend line. For a SHORT trend, the RTL is the upper trendline in your parlance.
By granting your mind the right to look at markts from a NEUTRAL bias, your brain has to deal with only half the elements that would otherwise be in the picture.
Meny definitions have twice the applications and half of what you may be trying to do now disappears.
Okay you spent the moment. You will go back to where you were. BUT in six months you may be able to accept having a neutral bias as one of your original ideas. Then you can become a beginner trader.
,ftt is failing to to bounce back up or down to the upper/lower tl in the present channel,
this rhought is a tough one to have to bear. In a parallelogram, points 1 and 3 establish the dominant slope. In a trend, price advances in the dominant direction. It is always one direction and one direction only. That direction is right to left.
Trends always are happening. We know this because they overlap. Once you know what is going on you always know the dominant side of the market.
Imagine, for a moment that you have (always) the skill to be knowledgeable about what the dominant side of the market is at all times.
Now, you cannot, but you could if you annotated and the lines went out into the future. Price would always be filling the boundaries YOU drew upon instructions from the market.
Your platform will not do that for you because you subscribe to a platform that is shoddy and incomplete. Most platform vendors are ignorant AND they do NOT listen to their customers.
This said, now, you can determine the end of each trend.
AFTER POINT 3, A TREND COMES TO AN END IF THE PRICE CANNOT GO FAR ENOUGH FROM RIGHT TO LEFT TO GET TO THE LTL.
this expressions says: "You have all the time in the world to make all the market offers by trading FTT to FTT. In detail you go through point 1, point 2 and point 3 holding and naking money. After point 3 you have to watch the trend come to its extreme price value just after the volume peaks and price Fails To Traverse the container width drawn well before the end of the trend and past the end of the trend.
What is it like to be a person looking at lines drawn to the right side of his screen where price moves along in between these lines, all after the lines are drawn. What is it like to look at 10 leading indicators of price and know the price that will not be exceeded (here exceeded means beyond the price in the dominant direction).
The RTL is behind the price and the LTL is in front of the price. Volume is rising. The PRV shadow of volume shows you 12 seconds into the bar what the ending volume will be and it tells you whether of not the peak is past. If not, then you sit for 5 minutes more and make more money. What if the PRV shadow is less that the prior bar's volume? Well then you know you are going to , somwhere in the next 300 seconds, see the maximum traverse the trend will make aftyer point 3 of the parallelogram.
Knowledge and skills combine to give you a one-on-one match of your sensing (10%) and inference (90% and from long term memory) to YIELD PERCEPTION.
as we know most trader about all of the time are betting because they have zero PERCEPTION. It is tough shit for all the people who can honestly read this and figure out they have wasted all their time screwing around instead of building their minds.
I cannot build your mind and so far it is NOT built.
Only a reasoned system results in a buuilt mind. Throwning random beliefs into a nind does NOT let it build itself. Look at reading and Arithmetic. They are built by a learning process that has a core of doing drills to make inference in the form of long term memory.
So I read what you post and see a messed up and disorganized mind and I know you never did any drills suggested by anyone.
To BE able to read a chart is done by annotating the chart first. You do annotating drills. Then you read the chart. If you annotate and if you read the chart (google: learning to read English; it is similar), then you can log the chart. Every bar deserves six rows in a log.
at this point,you start a new channel,
A trend ends on a fractal on the Failure To Traverse. All fractals are nested and about seven different fractals will cover the fastest trade to the slowest Economic or Econometric cycle. You do not start anything; the market is what dictates what is what. You obey at all times.
This is what i am deducing from your post, the ve,volatility expansion,i'm miffed,is that the same as a direction change,
No absolutely nd positively NOT.
Here is the bad news. The VE only steepens the trend and prolongs it. Think of it this way. I am telling the world about DOOMSDAY and you think I am saying things are turning around.
A Volatility Expansion is an imprtant happening on the LTL.
You may notice people, today, speak of the market's volatility. they do and they are still very ignorant people.
this post is a wake up call for you and for them.
When I say this leg (third and after point 3) of the Depression has four VE's coming up, what in CW I am saying is The Depression has four stages of getting WORSE COMMInG DOWN.
The sequence will last 10 to 12 years. I will be 88 to 90 when it is over.
BUT all the while, I have immunity to Depressions since I extract capital out of markets every day. I have a system that works for all markets given a minimum of activity. I have used it for 53 years.
and are you saying we will make it thru this fed printing for another 10-12 years before any serious market damage,
You haven't seen any damage as yet. It gets worse and worse over four more and more diofficult stages. Nations will begin to fail. we will have more and more terroism from those who have no rights where they live. Even in America those who have been screewed by the few will get angry and show everyone how lousy living from day to day is for them.
Force will begin to be used to control people who are having a hardtime and do not know how to do drills.
Learning by doing drills is the only way to be rich by using price change to make money.
your post says that you do not do drills. Do you have a tent and a sleeping bag? If so learn to cook over a sterno flame. Gas tanks blow up and kill campers.
if you are you've answered my question about you using this on weekly ,monthly.yearly charts
Yes. If you post a comment on my 01SEP09 pronoumcement, remember to put in piont 1, and 2 and their subfractals so you can actually perceive what I said. I said that on the way to point 3 the subfractal could no longer reach the LTL. Now, in 2011 we can see that was true. this Depression started in JUN/JUL of 06 and you can watch the camtasia's where I spoke that and but up the charts of past depressions from Van Tharpe's book.
Now is the time to come in from the c0ld and begin to learn. It is going to get a lot more volatile and that means alot more money velocity is ahead unless you get the Bohr or Lizard Syndomes.
Re: Re: Rocket backtest
Quote from DB_sezwhat:
Is the MACD and STOC calculating off of the degapped data or non-gapped data?
Quote from stasbz:
Jack, what do you mean by "camtasia"
"Also listen to the four games camtasia on the DOM"
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...dom#post1417424
Re: Re: Re: Rocket backtest
Quote from jack hershey:
degapping is required.
Also use the third leading indicator Stoch (5, 2, 3) and the signal is @ 50%.
Indicators of two line charts are determined by the relationship of the two lines.
In MACD you will notice two opposite words. A set of six relations results. The six relations follow an order of events.
I posted an attachment for the benefit of a thread that had not learned about indicators and are following a set of CW myths instead. As usual, this interesting thread was closed. LOL...
Quote from SK0:
I am not sure the above is what you wanted me to do. I have already drilled into bar mutation of cases with the use of leaning PRV tool as well as other fine tools. So at Sub level, I may not be very good at identification of ftt but staying on the right side isn't too much of an issue for me in general. I just need to reason through why I should compound profits.
All this could cleared up in one day if Jack would make live calls for just one day. Chance of that happening, zero.
I disagree. If Hershey made (successful) live calls that would only prove his skills to those who believed he can't trade. It would bring a larger following, but it would also attract the attention of the kind of traders he despises. It would provide very little help only to his most advanced followers, and none to the others.
Quote from Jack Nestle:
All this could cleared up in one day if Jack would make live calls for just one day. Chance of that happening, zero.
Quote from Jack Nestle:
All this could cleared up in one day if Jack would make live calls for just one day. Chance of that happening, zero.
Your link is from late November 2008. Do you have a link to where it was supposedly posted in a more timely manner?
Jack's turning point of a lifetime prediction didn't work out very well:
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...80&#post3046280
Quote from baro-san:
Probably many remember his beginning of the year prediction for 2008: he was very accurate, but that neither changed his detractors' minds, nor helped much his beginner followers.
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...503#post2187503
Quote from Trader666:
Your link is from late November 2008. Do you have a link to where it was supposedly posted in a more timely manner?
Jack's turning point of a lifetime prediction didn't work out very well:
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...80&#post3046280
Quote from cd23:
I annotated your chart and also noted the volume for 2008 as well.
I do not see your second leg as a possibility. I also feel the summer will be flat after two legs down (a small breather in between).
Absence of commercial paper being rolled and the annuals coming in with the appropriate mark to markets (or models in worst cases) will deepen the initial drop off out of the H&S.
The dominos started rolling about June 06. Superimpose housing sales, starts and inventory to see how the three graphs flow. Add in the credit card and employment conditions as the secondary industries shut down because they are no longer feeding housing. the financial sector which works on commissions has few sales alternatives for those no long working the turf.
The quant era also ended about the time the housing inventory started building. This is an "establishment" that took a quarter century to install and build. Dismantling it is going to be hazardous duty pay for a lot of brass. There will be no novelty in "securitization" for quite a while. On the otherhand all the hedgies are facing the same way and the investors do have to get paid out if and when they realize they are in a dead end situation. ceck out the top 100. It will be a continuing combo of write downs and sovereign capital coming in and taking over the reigns to manage the infusions. Congress screwed up on this one. They did oil correctly by defusing China and the port operations got caught in time but they blew it on sovereign capital.
Oh the fed debt. As the government runs out of takers (see recent auctions) turning over debt will lead to longer term debt packages and high frequency offerings.
By the time summer ends, it will be fairly clear that the election is up for grabs and no one will be taking office until after the end of the year. Uncertainty drives the markets down.
The last half of 2008 is where the present administration is going to pay a lot of dues. Iraq is going to be a lot more expensive to get out of and there is going to be a lot of increased continuing expenses for vets in many long term care requirements (including post trauma for unwounded, family therapy all over the place (See Ft Hood ramp up when it is announced) and care for all those involved in the evacuation).
Health care, education and SS are going to take a lot of heat as well. Ivy league endowments are going to have to play by the 501 (c) (3) rules starting sometime soon as well. Investing is going to be one tough cookie for them.
I have been trying to find the posts that Jack says he was making that showed the progress in turning $10,000 to $100,000 with his Tuscon group.
I guess I do not know where to look!
http://www.mediafire.com/?1gi2qygm3yh
I have also been unable to locate a copy of this book Jack wrote.
From 6/08 ET post by Jack
I know what it is like to write a book that sells 400,000 copies in four months. What do you think it would be like if my prints were seen around the world? i showed, under security, one third party (a broker) a day's trades in one stock (100,000 shares with a 17 point net), what do you think he did?
baro-san, OK so he took someone else's prediction and tweaked it.
If he's such an oracle then why was his turning point of a lifetime prediction so far off?
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...80&#post3046280
You got the link right... that's Jack in his own words from one of his Camtasias promising his former IBD group to turn $10,000 into $1 Million in 100 days and document it on ET.
Does anyone have a link to the final results of that?
Quote from bmwhendrix:
I have been trying to find the posts that Jack says he was making that showed the progress in turning $10,000 to $100,000 with his Tuscon group.
I guess I do not know where to look!
http://www.mediafire.com/?1gi2qygm3yh
Quote from maxpi:
If it was all cleared up, then what?
Re: Rocket backtest
Quote from BenzMercedesSL:
I backtested the rocket on K200 and ES.
The rocket criteria are:
1. Long when macd(5,13,6) histogram >= 0.4 and stoc(14,1,3) K > 80 and stoc(14,1,3) D > 80
2. Short when macd(5,13,6) histogram <= -0.4 and stoc(14,1,3) K <20 and stoc(14,1,3) D < 20
3. Close long when stoc(14,1,3) K < 80
4. Close short when stoc(14,1,3) K > 20
I applied MACD and Stoc to both degapped and non-degapped data. I found there were very few rockets in K200, compared to ES.
Quote from Trader666:
baro-san, OK so he took someone else's prediction and tweaked it.
If he's such an oracle then why was his turning point of a lifetime prediction so far off?
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...80&#post3046280
I should know better than getting engaged by you, but here it is:
Quote from Trader666:
baro-san, OK so he took someone else's prediction and tweaked it.
If he's such an oracle then why was his turning point of a lifetime prediction so far off?
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...80&#post3046280
Quote from jack hershey:
If you compound you work the same and make more money. this is a good reason.
miramaximusplus you are obviously too stupid to understand the mythology.
Jack. i read your post here http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...4&#post1431044.
you use that colors
[quote]We have the jerseys who play. red, orange, yellow and GREEN[quote]
is it colors of DOM, Green - inside bid/ask?
Brother miramaximusplus, so are you talking about me? Hey, I have no complaints. Thanks for your concern. Seriously, you have wasted enough of your time here. How many years? Do you think anyone appreciate what you have done here? I can tell you, no one. Also, nobody is responsible for your inability to become a millionaire. We are all adults and Jack is not making us to buy anything. If I were you, I will either seek another methodology that I find comfortable or come out one of my own. Peace.
Re: Re: Rocket backtest
Quote from SK0:
The attached is the Beginner Rocket document. You need to consider volume too. 10 to 12K WAS the fast pace. You could use MAK matrix 70% to adjust volume for comtemporary use. The short signal on your Stochastic (14 1 3) should be CROSSING below 20 level.
Quote from PointOne:
I waited a while to see if anyone else picked this up. Did you scale the MACD criteria with price? ES prices are around 5x larger than K200 which would make the 0.4 gating a bit of a stretch for K200.
Quote from jack hershey:
degapping is required.
Also use the third leading indicator Stoch (5, 2, 3) and the signal is @ 50%.
Indicators of two line charts are determined by the relationship of the two lines.
In MACD you will notice two opposite words. A set of six relations results. The six relations follow an order of events.
I posted an attachment for the benefit of a thread that had not learned about indicators and are following a set of CW myths instead. As usual, this interesting thread was closed. LOL...
Quote from DB_sezwhat:
I'm not sure, but I think Sierra Charts does it the best. rainman2(great guy
Quote from DB_sezwhat:
By knowing beforehand that price is getting ready to reverse, I can then use a different tool set to carve the turn.
I annotated a chart that will hopefully help.
But what if you don't know that you have a ftt? Well, DUH, you're shit out of luck!
or you can use another leading indicator - Market Depth
Sorry Jack, scream and obfuscate all you want but there's nothing unreasonable about pointing out the FACT that your predicted turning point of a lifetime was a really bad call.
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...80&#post3046280
Quote from jack hershey:
Trader666 represents this bullshit based erroneous reasoning of these airheads.
Who gives a fuck what people so screwed up like Trader666 think? People who are like Trader666 is who.
Will moderators do anything about their erroneous reasoning? No it just will not ever happen. There is no way it can be expected that moderators delete unresonable posts.
This begs the question...if the turning point of a lifetime (short signal) turns out not to follow thru, shouldn't that signal the ultimate buy? Judging from the chart you posted, it seems his call was at a major inflection point. 9/1/09 has acted as the bottom for over 2 years now.
I'm not sure how long you have been trading, but your argument fails to notice that, even though his call was wrong, his entry point for a short was absolutely perfect (for taking a shot). Many of my "wrong" trades happen to be intra-day inflection points too so I can see where he is coming from.
Just try and think about it intuitively.
Quote from Trader666:
Sorry Jack, scream and obfuscate all you want but there's nothing unreasonable about pointing out the FACT that your predicted turning point of a lifetime was a really bad call.
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...80&#post3046280
"Now that it has been proven that Volume leads Price - ALWAYS.."
I guess I was asleep when the proof was shown. All I have seen are a few well chosen charts.
Quote from DB_sezwhat:
Now that it has been proven that Volume leads Price - ALWAYS, the question becomes 'how does one use that information to carve the price turn?'
DUH, ftt's of course !!!
More specifically, order book delta (the difference between limit ask and limit bid offers) offers more precision. Here's a chart identifying the ftt using OBD.
You misunderstand... I'm not saying cd23 isn't Jack. I was saying he took someone else's (jreynolds212) prediction and tweaked it. Go back and look at your own link and the post immediately above it.
Maybe you should start from the assumption that YOU don't get it. Here are a few links to get you started:
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...29&#post2832629
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...13&#post2679113
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...97&#post2781897
Quote from baro-san:
...Hershey and his posts may or may not be such a source, but if nothing else, his prediction for 2008 (it's easy to recognize his style under the cd23 screen name) should urge you not to jump to conclusions when you disagree with him. Better start from the assumption that you don't get it, and work toward overcoming this.it: the reversed saucer. Not many were able to anticipate it at that date...
Quote from bmwhendrix:
"Now that it has been proven that Volume leads Price - ALWAYS.."
I guess I was asleep when the proof was shown. All I have seen are a few well chosen charts.
Quote from stasbz:
Jack. i read your post here http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...4&#post1431044.
you use that colors
[quote]We have the jerseys who play. red, orange, yellow and GREEN[quote]
is it colors of DOM, Green - inside bid/ask?
Huh? Mar 09 was the major inflection point; Sep 2, 2009 was only one of many ordinary, inconspicuous points of continuation in the rally off of that bottom.
Quote from R. Raskolnikov:
This begs the question...if the turning point of a lifetime (short signal) turns out not to follow thru, shouldn't that signal the ultimate buy? Judging from the chart you posted, it seems his call was at a major inflection point. 9/1/09 has acted as the bottom for over 2 years now.
I'm not sure how long you have been trading, but your argument fails to notice that, even though his call was wrong, his entry point for a short was absolutely perfect (for taking a shot). Many of my "wrong" trades happen to be intra-day inflection points too so I can see where he is coming from.
Just try and think about it intuitively.
Quote from bmwhendrix:
"Now that it has been proven that Volume leads Price - ALWAYS.."
I guess I was asleep when the proof was shown. All I have seen are a few well chosen charts.
Quote from nkhoi:
dom has no color, those are colors of t&s, 2 of them, one with filer > 50 and one with filer < 50.
Mushroom, consider this. Say a market had a constraint of only having one contract trade every minute and that trade was at the bid for 20 minutes then at the ask for 20 minutes. you would have price simply move up and down with flat volume. So that "proves" volume does not lead price ALWAYS.
Also price can continue to move up or down on increasing or decreasing volume.
Perhaps if you showed me a chart with actual entry and exit points real time using these methods I might better understand.
If you are a new trader, less than 5 years, you might remind yourself that there is nothing new in the way prices move except for the technology. It is all based on fear and greed just as it was 100 years ago. All that is new is the way guru's and charlatans re-package it for their benefit.
Now that benefit may be for money, attention, or maybe to generate hits on a website.
LOL Whatever you do, do not risk real money unless you are at least 3 month profitable sim.
Keep the entertainment coming. LOL
I do not really expect to see a chart, just as I never expect to see Jack answer the hard questions as the answers show that the emperor has no clothes!!! All you will get is redirection, BS, gobbly gook and personal insults. Look up the definition of Charlatan.
lOL Enough fun here. Off to the beach....
Quote from jack hershey:
camtasia is a trademarked name for a program that makes videos of your screen display.
Cam probably has something to do with the screen being looked at electronically.
The tasia part probalby is a way of explaining the breadth and dynamic that out does the competition.
So for years I prepped a series of twice a month presentations for anyone who wanted to come on a particular night of the week.
So people came to Tucson from around the country. A club in NC triangle rotated their members, for example. West coasters just came each time.
by makiing a powerpoint in advance and having a scanner connected to my computer, I could put up anything for discussion.
I prerecorded the market and played it in real time or faster.
We discussed the Depression and its beginning with the climax run in JUN/JUL 2006.
We always ran through the stocks from the Universe that were coming up for trades before the next meeting. The attendees rotated keeping the Universe.
Usually about 70 people showed. On alternate weeks they met in homes or truck stops, etc.... Sort of a movable feast. I would go to new trader's offices and help them set up and about 10 others would drop in. advanced people partnered with beginners.
before cantasia we used the video cameras on tripods at my acrbitectural studio. Then we made 10 1-hour deited down guides that a person could use to get going. I was on a twin DTM disk feeds at that time. Many many sets were copied. the camera could pick up the screens, we who talked, and the drawing board where we did pairs of offset charts in four colors to anticipate the turns using a regional and geometric sheet.
Om a FOMC day, we could do three 300 point segments where we nicknamed a 150 point move on the DJX.X "a Greenspan".
So I have a huge archive spanning about 50 some years.
A lot of that time I had 15 POA's to trade for others. And at one time I did four levels of seven sets of emails four times a day. Other people did the levels I just shipped the seven sets four times a day.
ET showed up at some point recently.
On one of the presentations, I dicussed the DOM and the games played there. Not too many books cover that subject.
I had staff transcribe the camtasias and I illustrated them with the powerpoint pics. A person maintained a distribution site for both the videos and the documents. Also there were warm up documents. Some are still mentioned in these times.
A liar? Yathink?
Jacks profile from another site.
Occupation: amateur trader, author, architect, EOP service.
Location: Tucson , AZ
Years Trading: 52
What I Trade: Stocks, DJ, ES
I trade applications of an agorithm I created:PVT, SCT and SSR. PVT trades stocks 100 cycles per year @ 10% per cycle. there is a 100,000 share cap per stream. SCT trades, intraday, 20 to 40 traversal rades all in all the always on the right side of the market. the net profit yield is 3x ATR daily on the 5 min ES index. SSR does sector rotation in stocks @ 4 % a week for 4 1/2 week holds.
Quote from bmwhendrix:
Mushroom, consider this. Say a market had a constraint of only having one contract trade every minute and that trade was at the bid for 20 minutes then at the ask for 20 minutes. you would have price simply move up and down with flat volume. So that "proves" volume does not lead price ALWAYS.
Also price can continue to move up or down on increasing or decreasing volume.
Perhaps if you showed me a chart with actual entry and exit points real time using these methods I might better understand.
If you are a new trader, less than 5 years, you might remind yourself that there is nothing new in the way prices move except for the technology. It is all based on fear and greed just as it was 100 years ago. All that is new is the way guru's and charlatans re-package it for their benefit.
Now that benefit may be for money, attention, or maybe to generate hits on a website.
LOL Whatever you do, do not risk real money unless you are at least 3 month profitable sim.
Keep the entertainment coming. LOL
I do not really expect to see a chart, just as I never expect to see Jack answer the hard questions as the answers show that the emperor has no clothes!!! All you will get is redirection, BS, gobbly gook and personal insults. Look up the definition of Charlatan.
lOL Enough fun here. Off to the beach....
Mushroom, those "core" concepts are found much more clearly discussed and accompanied by real time real money trades on other threads on ET. The reason Jack gets so much flack is that he makes unsubstantiated claims, tries to mystify the simple, and complicates what a successful trader knows to be simple.
He has for years misguided new traders with claims of making 3X daily range, Never a losing trade, etc. This is wrong both morally and professionally in my opinion. I support those that call BS on him.
Keep your money in your pocket. Also, remember this is the wild west here on ET, and all kind of egomaniacs, nut jobs, liars, thieves, charlatans purvey their wares and maladies here to the never ending stream of lemmings seeking a quick $.
If you need guidance to find some of those threads PM me and I will offer what I can and I promise not to use the word Gaussian!!
LOL
Check out the attachment entitled "watch the games".Jack's next post on the same page.hth
Quote from stasbz:
DOM of stocks have different colors for different levels. you can change them.
i dont understand what colors for buy and sel for t&s filer > 50 ?
Grren -buy , yellow -sell?
Jack. i read your post here http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...4&#post1431044.
you use that colors
[quote]We have the jerseys who play. red, orange, yellow and GREEN[quote]
what colors for?
Hmm, stupidity and no clear explanation. This is typical of Jack Hershey.
__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?
Bud Fox
Wall Street
Quote from Mushroom:
I said liquid market. You know too that it takes volume to go beyond the bid-ask spread. And your logic doesn't make sense. I can't explain it in english but just google Aristotelian logic.
I don't see how the core of what Jacks says could be controversial. It's just price, volume and trend channels. Basic TA, studying price action. The rest of it I don't focus on right now and maybe I never will.
__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?
Bud Fox
Wall Street
Bwolinsky, If my memory serves me, was it you who backtested some of Jacks systems? If so, do you have the results available to post?
Quote from bmwhendrix:
Bwolinsky, If my memory serves me, was it you who backtested some of Jacks systems? If so, do you have the results available to post?
nkhoi, I am not a big believer in backtesting. So how about this.
Does anyone have the results of forward testing r(real time trading) of Jacks methodology as he presents it from an earlier date that can be posted?
Quote from bwolinsky:
Well, actually it is only a MACD, Stoch, and smoothed SMA of a stoch, and that is it.
for those who want to see some recent live trades, running commentaries, live channel drawings, look up ivob posts, enjoy.
Here is the chart(by spyder) of 2-27-07 that jack is commenting on in "watching the games" document.http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/attac...&postid=1376104
Quote from workwithus:
Check out the attachment entitled "watch the games".Jack's next post on the same page.hth
Short video I put together some years ago for one of
JH Method Meetings
Press Play
http://www.screencast.com/t/oWXzWBqLPW
Quote from jack hershey:
Historically, when all of that came to pass publically, the cycle began again.
If you care to reason, what makes you think there would be a different result on this cycle? there will not be for those who are the airheads like the airheads were in the past.
Trader666 represents this bullshit based erroneous reasoning of these airheads.
Who gives a fuck what people so screwed up like Trader666 think? People who are like Trader666 is who.
Will moderators do anything about their erroneous reasoning? No it just will not ever happen. There is no way it can be expected that moderators delete unresonable posts.
These types of people help me make my points and they separate the posters into two groups. Detractors on ET are a tradition.
these types daily demonstrate that they have files full of their personal comments that they repeat over and over instead of doing any learning.
TIKITRADER, Thanks for posting, but the link is not there, nothing is loading.
Quote from bmwhendrix:
TIKITRADER, Thanks for posting, but the link is not there, nothing is loading.
I just get a blank screen, media player does not start. If others can view it, I guess I have a problem here.
Thanks,
Quote from bmwhendrix:
I just get a blank screen, media player does not start. If others can view it, I guess I have a problem here.
Thanks,
Quote from TIKITRADER:
Try this
http://www.screencast.com/t/oWXzWBqLPW
Quote from bmwhendrix:
I just get a blank screen, media player does not start. If others can view it, I guess I have a problem here.
Thanks,
Quote from workwithus:
Check out the attachment entitled "watch the games".Jack's next post on the same page.hth
Swtr,
U have a good deal of valuable information u gathered now.Now do the exact opposite!
Aaaaaaahah
Quote from jack hershey:
11-07-11 06:48 PM
Should I put up the code for 10 leading indicators of price?
Quote from jack hershey:
Most use the PRV which is available 12 seconds into a 5-min bar. Here you find the Peaking of volume about 2 to 4 minutes ahead of the price extreme.
For the 300 second duration, you get to look for the time the bar stretches to it's maximum. MAX put up those values in a PACE vs Volatility chart. Also use the PACE vs Overlap.
As you say the DOM will have a WALL at this price value as well. But you have to undeerstand three other leading indicators here by assessing the games played by smart money on the DOM.
As you look at the S/S, you see 20 to 30 seconds before this price extreme, that the smart money has switched sentiment sides (Use the color coding and when the axis is crossed.). Prior to that you have two more leading indicators as measured by velocity and acceration of the envelope.
On the OTR chart you use the two pairs analysis and regard the shift in dominance at the extreme of the pairs.
For the three indicators you observe the fast Stoch going through 50% line and the cross overs on the slow Stoch of the 20 or 80 (which ever applies). The MACD will be doing a sequence of 3 cases according to C to Xover to D; then it will reach the designers absolute value for the impending trend. (For humor, you will remember T28 choosing the wrong signal a while back)
By using the YM as a leading indicator of ES, you have a series of leading signals on the next faster fractal. The sequence is 1, BO of RTL, 2, 3 and the ftt. Many minutes could be involved in this faster fractal sequence.
All together, if a person's mind is fully differentiated by using these degrees of information, the market trades are done with certainty that comes from the fact that a binary go/nogo system is used. The binary signals are also sweet in that they have a vector dimension as well.
No betting; no prediction, just "anticipation" that comes from an order of events well understood from building the mind using drills.
QED.
Quote from DB_sezwhat:
Thanks as always for you're detailed response. I didn't want to overwhelm anyone with leading indicators as I knew that Lucrum was eagerly awaiting for a reply from you.
I just assumed PRV was a given for anyone reading this thread due to its importance, and of course any reliable platform will have it as well as global variables.
CDV has replaced MAK's spreadsheet for me. Perhaps you have some insight on that as well as the dom games. I do look at order book delta at events though.
The S/S is another indicator that I understand but don't use, mostly because I haven't been able to set it up right( anchoring the drift). I think nkhoi may have for sierra charts, maybe he can chime in.
Of course the ym 2 minute chart is a staple on my trading display with CDV also.
Quote from Lucrum:
PRV?
CDV?
11-14-11 02:57 PM
Quote from jack hershey:
11-07-11 06:48 PM
Should I put up the code for 10 leading indicators
Jack I cannot keep up with SCT so far for a numerous reasons.Can you please suggest a couple of reliable barometers to navigate swing cycles?
BR
Tikitrader,
I know you were a follower of Jacks from quite a ways back with the Tuscon Investors Daily group. How has it worked out?
This is a sincere question as I know you and some others here have a
long history with Jack.
Jack has a long love and hate relationship with many detractors in this forum. The problem I see is that he gives away his idea FREE but none of them UNDERSTAND and APPLY what he has said. If Jack did not give away free, I guess that the detractors would disperse quietly.
SKO, You are wrong. Just because something is free, you assume it has value? True, much of what Jack babbles around are age old ideas and methodologies.
The problem is that it is not free. Under the false promise of being able to make "3 times the daily range" following a guru who has "no losing trades" costs many new traders much time and money. Ask Spydertrader. That is why I despise liars, psychics, thieves and charlatans.. Not being a member of that group is easy to prove, but if the proof is not there, then all can see the emperor has no clothes. Thus, you will never see Jack post real trades. They do not even need to be posted in real time. They do not even need to be with real money. Simply the end of day trades from the daily trade page of a known trading program.
What could be more simple?
LOL
You are too smart, bmwhendrix. But you "forgot" to think hard and do the work yourself. You can blame your parents or government for your unhappiness. But nobody owe you anything to prove to you especially in trading. We are all competitors, right? Last, don't believe in any free stuff unless proven by YOURSELF.
Well SKO, you have been a Jack follower for over 4 years. Please post an end of day log of your trades as I asked before.
See eventually you have to put up or shut up.
Or keep babbling. Oh, "nothing to prove" is the old adage that means "I ain't got nothin to show"
Have a great day.
Don't take any of this too seriously, nobody else does.
Quote from DB_sezwhat:
RSI and 180 points stops are to be ignored.
I've been reading 100s of posts on the Jack Hershey method with an open mind. I think it has a lot of potential if described correctly. After so much reading, i was expecting to get some clarification. I understand how trend channels are supposedly built, what an FTT is, how to read volume, how to interpret BOs and FBOs, and so on. I've been developing systems for quite some time, i'm a programmer, and have had sufficient success in low-risk live trading. I've looked at a lot of different "indicators" and developed many of my own. Some parts of the jack hershey method strike me as remarkably similar to my own conclusion, especially about the FTT, that i almost thought "he stole my idea!".
However, I still have a lot of questions, so I won't ask all of them at once. Here are a few easy ones.
1- When a trend channel is forming we need points 123. I've seen charts where people have drawn those points. There seems to be very little consistency in defining what those points are however. They are supposed to be "highs and lows". In one chart posted by Jack, they are defined as highest bar out of 10+ bars around it. This means that at least 5 bars need to be lower in the past and future for it to be considered a "high" point. On other charts i've seen this number as low as 1, meaning that some people have constructed points 1 and 2 on two bars, without knowing if the 3rd bar will or will not end up higher still. These are the basics of "highs and lows detecting indicators". These indicators require a period of refference, and this to me is unclear. Sure, i can subjectively see them, but here is the problem. There is no consistency in detecting points 123, and if we wanted to make "sure" that for example point 3 is really where we thought it is, we have to wait N bars (ie 5 bars) to make sure no subsequent bars go below it. That means we have to wait 5 bars after pt3 has appeared to construct a trend channel. This then means we can enter the channel and be in a trade about 5 bars after point 3, and by that time we can't say if the trend channel will even continue sufficiently to be profitable. So my question is: what are the clear rules for defining points 123? Highest bar of how many, and of course comparing volume too, can anyone declare those rules or make them clearer?
2- After reading so much I also didn't figure out how FTT followed by a BO is supposed to be defined. Some define a BO as a breakout from a trend, but what happens if the price gets back into the trend and thus creates an FBO? How long do we wait for a BO to be confirmed? 4 bars? 5 bars? 0.2% of price change from the FTT? 15% increase in volume? Any criteria at all? Or is it just kinda subjective.
---------------------
I have more questions but these are good enough for me, for now. If anyone can answer me but doesn't want to because they think i didn't "read enough on my own" and that "they don't want to serve me answers without me searching for them more" then please direct me to where i could obtain information to clarify this. I am very good at using google and searching in general, so i think i've done my part.
Note: I am completely open and unbiased at this moment. I don't like people flaming Jack without proof, nor do I like people boasting about the system and saying some are "too thick to get it". I myself have worked on systems far more complex, and agree with the hypothesis jack has presented. I am unsure i agree with the methodology because to me it is unclear, and this is what i want to figure out. I approach this with my usual scientific mind and curiosity.
Finally:
If Jack, Spytrader, or anyone with a track record of using the system for over a year wants to explain it to me fully and devote the time to get to the nuts and bolts, i can assure that person that i can make a computer do it just as well as a human mind can. As long as the system has rules. I'm willing to devote a few months of my time and my proprietary trading, backtesting, study and analysis platform just out of curiosity - to put this theory to the test. If somebody tells me that these "rules" cannot be coded, my reply will be that in that case there are no rules to begin with and it's all speculative and subjective - thus eliminating any need for proving or disproving the hypothesis, because there is none. Also note my trading platform is already able to create trend channels, digaonal support/resistance and horizontal support/resistance trend lines. The trend channel creation in particular is very fast and accurate, and lots of studies have been done to make sure they are "the best detectable TCs" that can be found.
Quote from braincell:
..
However, I still have a lot of questions, so I won't ask all of them at once. Here are a few easy ones.
...
Quote from nkhoi:
I know where you are heading for, look up ETLUKER
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...6183#post756183
Quote from braincell:
I just went and read almost all of his posts. I didn't find anything too revealing. I have already coded a trend-channel constructor and future trend channel filter/constructor, as well as automated harmonics analysis and a lot of fancy stuff i've never seen anybody else code. This isn't about bragging, claiming i'm a genius, or about looking for indicators however. ETLURKER's posts have however led me to a thread about how somebody with a similar mindset "RoughTrader" tried implementing the hershey method but failed ultimately to get clarification. This is not encouraging.
I'm still looking forward to somebody answering the two questions in my previous post. Thanks
Quote from timenspace:
Look at your futures through the eyes of a previous sad loser that couldn't think for himself:
...
Nobody will answer your two questions, because probably they aren't proper questions for this method.
Quote from braincell:
... Back on topic: I am still waiting for answers to my two questions. Anyone?
Quote from baro-san:
Nobody will answer your two questions, because probably they aren't proper questions for this method.
There are 1000's of posts by Jack Hershey and Spydertrader dealing with various aspects of their trading approach. You have to really understand where they're coming from, and change the way you're thinking about trading: stay at all times on the "right side of the market". There's no prediction in the usual sense. There are no rules in the usual sense. All the 'indicators" and the "helpers" (including the leading price indicators) seem to have to be continuously scanned in order to allow you to decide at every moment the "right side of the market". At any time your perception changes, on the fractal you're trading, you reverse your position.
From the many people who tried this and the few that credibly claimed to succeed, the conclusion can't be other than: not everybody can re-train his mind the way this method requires.
Good luck!
Quote from jack hershey:
11-07-11 06:48 PM
Should I put up the code for 10 leading indicators of price?
Answer for brain cell:
A lot of software programmers have done what you are thinking about.
Their performance for PVT is on record in many locations.
Since you are a programmer, I can keep it brief and to the point.
First, generate the compact program for the Hypothesis Set (HS) and it's Parametric Measures (PM). Basically review "inkind" as presented by Keynes. Then use the logic theory of Carnap.
The market dictates that you work in Boolean Algebra. The tricky part is the Parametric Measures which you have NOT grasp at all. Try to understand that there is a key aspect of markets that has eluded almost all programmers and certainly all the quants and book writers.
All market have granularity. This must be understood.
If you choose to use market data, then you have to use the proper parametric measure.
It is important that you be TOLD this so you can stop meandering around. If you "get it" then you can read all the posts and books and periodicals that show that NO one "gets it" and they are just making use of their acquired skills instead.
Getting all kinds of training is important nut there is a caveat. The problems you choose to address dictate the applied mathematics of the situation.
In markets, there is the special issue of when a mistake is made, you have to recognize it and backtrack to a point that is before your mistake.
You have made a lot of mistakes and you may actually believe what you have done.
The gerunds of the HS dictate the PM only and only if you are taking into account the granularity of the market.
Deductively, only the pattern results on interlocking fractals.
I am telling you that you have to use a velocity as the PM. Let me assume that you have studied science and technology. For this reason, you may not be able to calculate velocity in markets. Most likely you will make a big mistake. Your mind may be closed to the proposition that time is NOT involved. You have demonstrated this limitation so far in your life.
Why do you think the earliest mathematicians who worked on building indicators for the markets used a six case method? They did not "get it."
I know that people do not understand what I write, easily. It is an experience to have me as a prof or instructor. I allow learners to do as they wish and produce what they may. then we go through the process of examining their foilbles and take them off the table.
In velocity there is a numerator and a denominator. You are incorrect in what you use as a denominator. From now on use 1 event as the denominator. 1 is the magnitude, the dimension is "event". See if you can eliminate your use of "time" as a dimension and the d of time.
An object could have a velocity and it would be dx/dt for a given function in a given Alegbra. Usually the Agebra is the base 10 algebra. There is a different algebra for each different base chosen.
As I said, I am difficult to understand simply because I am very knowledgeable and very thorough. You have not had such an experience before. You are very messy and clumsy when you deal with factual information.
Markets operate as systems. Systems have three parts. My trading results in the system of the market and trader, yield results that people ignorantly joke about because they are NOT competent. So it goes.
Q1. Begin with the smallest elements of the market: ticks and events. Deductively build the interlocking fractal relationship of the structure of the P, V system. The pattern emerges as the ONLY possibility. It has 100% probability and is 100% certain. If you make no mistakes and do not use your past series of mistakes.
Q2 If you did Q1, then you have the events order straight. Notice that the P, V relationship for FTT and BO is perfectly precise and clear. FTT is a reversal and NOT a retrace AND volume is a Peak. The BO is a geometric occurance in the order of EVENTS where price is crossing a previously established velocity (the dx/dt kind) and volume is at a trough. now you may know, but probably not.
Additional thoughts:
Write out in your journal what a Peak and what a Trough is. Use the intersection of the two Parametric Measures in each case. This is where one measure ends and another begins, given the granularity of the markets.
As you use Boolean Algebra the Algebra of the base 2, you notice, and Lucrim does not, that equations are NOT the rage. But logic sheets are. Or in your terms, logic sheets are represented by "programmer's coding".
The 10 leading indicators are written this way and are found, for various codes, in a 270 page collection in a thread in ET. Lazy, lazy Lucrim.
The structure of the system is expressed in seven feedback loops where each loop respresents the same logic in the form of the pattern's logic.
Information is fed into this logic structure and the variables produce what-ever display arrangement is specified. This is the process of the structure.
Most CW displays sum all of the volumes of each fractal, so annotating the volume has to be done with several line colors and line weights.
There is some CW that suggests losing is part of trading. This is only true, if the trader is doing the CW myths and consequences. All of the financial industry is in this mistaken trap. Remember when Demi says: "the formula doesn't work." The corporation had a different objective, however (Sales). CW doesn't work and it is not a requirement of the financial industry. People who follow the rules all of their lives are overpowered by the CW of the financial industry. Ask your parents.
The system results do not include losses since they do not exist in the system. The same is true for noise and anomalies.
For making money, results what is don is to sum the events and the slpe of the container is the money velocity of each part.
final note: drop FBO and use "fanning".
Quote from braincell:
I just went and read almost all of his posts. I didn't find anything too revealing. I have already coded a trend-channel constructor and future trend channel filter/constructor, as well as automated harmonics analysis and a lot of fancy stuff i've never seen anybody else code. This isn't about bragging, claiming i'm a genius, or about looking for indicators however. ETLURKER's posts have however led me to a thread about how somebody with a similar mindset "RoughTrader" tried implementing the hershey method but failed ultimately to get clarification. This is not encouraging.
I'm still looking forward to somebody answering the two questions in my previous post. Thanks
Quote from bmwhendrix:
BARO, Could you direct me to the documentation for those "few that credibly claimed" I assume the credibility comes from something other than after the fact ET posts.
Thanks,
[QUOTE]Quote from braincell:
So my question is: what are the clear rules for defining points 123? Highest bar of how many, and of course comparing volume too, can anyone declare those rules or make them clearer?
By your question it appears that you don't understand jack's method.Start by studying the two bar "cases" and how to draw the trendlines for them.Study how to put the points(1,2,3) at this basic level.Study the basic volume sequence(order of events) of a fast,medium and slow container.Study the important concept of nesting and how this applies to the fast,medium and slow containers.Study how to draw guassians for these three container levels.Study how to draw containers that match these guassians.Study how internal and lateral formations fit into reading rtl fbo's.Study VE's and how they affect the containers.When you have finished these studies you will have answered your questions.Besides the excellent info on ET you may want to check out this thread also.http://www.traderslaboratory.com/fo...lationship.html
Quote from Lucrum:
Quote from jack hershey:
You can drop the assumption.
I do not feel it would be possible for you to gain entrance to the more modern forums (electronic) that exist. There is a performance requirement.
Quote from bmwhendrix:
Thanks Jack, Just what I thought. There is none for me
Quote from timenspace:
Poor old Jack, still deluding himself and others
Hey Jack The Swordsman (R. Raskolnikov) keeps PM'ing me and crying about how mean we all are to you..
Once a sucker always a sucker I guess
Oh, I totally get it Jack. Look back over your last few posts, and the ones on this thread before those.
You have sidestepped all the questions asked of you with personal attacks.
If you would like to really help new traders. Show them the money.
Not just your fiction. Show them actual entries and exits. Or those of any of your followers who "got it".
Unfortunately, you do not have the necessary skills to enter into the arena of profitable traders. You must pass a membership requirement of being able to make money trading and show it if you are going to promote it. Else you lose all respect.
I sincerely believe you to be a charlatan and that you are providing a dis-service to any new trader. You are literate, and have command of a certain vocabulary, but you provide nothing new and what you do offer you present under false promise.
I fully get that you probably do not have more in your life now than this. Everything can be found about a person if you know where to look.
You could be a better person, you have the ability, you just have not put in the proper work in that direction. You still have time.
So respond to me with your usual BS. We all get it.
Glad I can give you something to do.
Quote from jack hershey:
...The 10 leading indicators are written this way and are found, for various codes, in a 270 page collection in a thread in ET...
11-07-11 06:48 PM
Should I put up the code for 10 leading indicators of price?
trading small channels can be very profitable and if you watch it long enough i think you could forecast the turns,that's what jack is trying to show ,there is nothing fake or complicated about it,there is something fake in the years of attacks by a poser who changes his handle more often than anyone on this site,and its complicated to try to find any reasoning behind the onslaught of insults directed his way,i guess down the road they will have studied the internet blogsites and come up with some new mental deficiencies previously undetected that are a byproduct of an intense fear of personal social interaction released onto the internet as a social blowoff valve for those who never leave the house,but for now Jack and everyone reading any of his contributions will have to put up with these brave keyboard cowboys who are afraid of the mailman ,paperboy,anyone who gets within 20 feet of their front door
Quote from ammo:
trading small channels can be very profitable and if you watch it long enough i think you could forecast the turns,that's what jack is trying to show...
check out finer tools like prv,str-squ,dom walls and the tic chart for starters.http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...056#post1716056
Quote from Lucrum:
So why didn't you say so AND provide a link
i use em,like today in oil,picked top in appl but mostly mp,most familiar with it,there are a million ways to trade,also a million ways to interact socially,as jack likes his channels and explains why,you like to change names and spew cowdung,can you explain why you are so reverent to this action..judging by your chart and past rare comments on the market under previous alias's,you have a lot more to offer than following jack around playing that fu record over and over,harder to understand than jack even
Quote from timenspace:
Hey Jacky.. Look MA, no MACD
Channels.. we don't need no stinkin channels.. there are more graceful subtle 'simple' ways to carve a path between the bulls and bears ;)
you didn't answer the question
4 hrs later ,still silence
Quote from ammo:
,you like to change names and spew cowdung,can you explain why
Quote from workwithus:
[QUOTE]Quote from braincell:
So my question is: what are the clear rules for defining points 123? Highest bar of how many, and of course comparing volume too, can anyone declare those rules or make them clearer?
By your question it appears that you don't understand jack's method.Start by studying the two bar "cases" and how to draw the trendlines for them.Study how to put the points(1,2,3) at this basic level.Study the basic volume sequence(order of events) of a fast,medium and slow container.Study the important concept of nesting and how this applies to the fast,medium and slow containers.Study how to draw guassians for these three container levels.Study how to draw containers that match these guassians.Study how internal and lateral formations fit into reading rtl fbo's.Study VE's and how they affect the containers.When you have finished these studies you will have answered your questions.Besides the excellent info on ET you may want to check out this thread also.http://www.traderslaboratory.com/fo...lationship.html
__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?
Bud Fox
Wall Street
Quote from bmwhendrix:
Bwolinsky, If my memory serves me, was it you who backtested some of Jacks systems? If so, do you have the results available to post?
__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?
Bud Fox
Wall Street
Quote from nkhoi:
let's make one thing clear, there is no back testing only forward testing is acceptable for this method.
__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?
Bud Fox
Wall Street
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...6&pagenumber=17
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...6&pagenumber=40
The unethical moderators in this thread removed the link to the fork where the thread displayed the actual code I used as well as the performance summaries that were in that.
Whoever did so is cowardly, unethical, and if it was a moderator that moderator should be banned for behaving like such a spoiled child.
PS:I DID FIND IT!
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...wolinsky+scottd
__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?
Bud Fox
Wall Street
Quote from bwolinsky:
..
The unethical moderators in this thread removed the link to the fork where the thread displayed the actual code I used as well as the performance summaries that were in that.
Whoever did so is cowardly, unethical, and if it was a moderator that moderator should be banned for behaving like such a spoiled child.
PS:I DID FIND IT!
...
If you want to know what Jack Hershey's SYSTEM REALLY IS THEN READ THIS YOU IDIOT
Quote from nkhoi:
LOL!
__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?
Bud Fox
Wall Street
DON'T EVER LISTEN TO ANOTHER FUCKING STUPID ASS 4 VARIABLE MARKOV CHAIN RANT BY JACK HERSHEY. READ THIS ENTIRE THREAD AND BE SURE TO DOWNLOAD THE ASCII DATAFILE AT THE END OF THE THREAD SO THAT YOU CAN SEE THAT JACK HERSHEY'S METHOD DOES NOT WORK ON ANYTHING BUT IN WEALTH-LAB BECAUSE THAT WAS WHERE THE THEORY ORIGINATED AND IT IS ONLY PROFITABLE IN WEALTH LAB SO DON'T LET ANOTHER PSYCHO BABBLE MULTI PARAGRAPH THREAD BY THIS MAN LEAVE YOU WONDERING IF HE HAS A SYSTEM THAT'S PROFITABLE ENOUGH. SEE FOR YOURSELF, BUT DON'T GO OFF ON YOUR LONESOME AND THINK THAT YOU WILL EVER FIND A SET OF PARAMETERS THAT WILL MAGICALLY GIVE YOU THE JACK HERSHEY METHOD. THIS THREAD IS ENTIRELY DEVOTED TO DETERMINING THE PROFITABILITY OF JACK HERSHEY'S METHOD, CIRCA 2008 AND NOT A DAM THING HAS CHANGED. HE'S JUST AS ALOOF, JUST AS STRANGE, DEMENTED AND WHEN IT COMES TO SAVING THE MASSES FROM MORE YEARS OF CURIOSITY THIS IS IT. DON'T EVER REVIEW THE HUNDREDS OF PAGES OF DRIVEL THIS MAN HAS SPEWED ALL OVER THE INTERNET BECAUSE THIS THREAD GETS IT. YEAH, OH, YEAH! THAT'S REAL! I'M GOING OFF BECAUSE I STILL HAVE PEOPLE ASKING ME WHAT HIS CODE IS, AND YET THERE SEEM TO BE MANY WHO STILL COME TO ET JUST TO BE LEAD LIKE COWS TO THE SLAUGHTER WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO YOU IF YOU DO NOT DO ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING I TELL YOU I DID IN THIS THREAD. DOWNLOAD THE ASCII DATA AND THEN BACKTEST IT YOU MORONS. JACK HERSHEY'S SCRIPT IS NOT DESIGNED TO TRADE ANYTHING BUT .SPX AT FIDELITY. THERE ISN'T ANY SYMBOL IN THIS UNIVERSE THAT WILL ALLOW YOU TO TRADE HIS METHOD PROFITABLY BECAUSE SO FEW OF YOU HAVE EVEN EVER THOUGHT ABOUT BACKTESTING USING WEALTH LAB PRO AND UNFORTUNATELY NOW I THINK THE CODE THERE IS LIMITED TO THE OLD PERL, SO IF YOU WANT TO KNOW HOW WELL HIS FUCKING METHOD GODDAMIT YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE RIGHT GODAM FUCKING DATA! IF YOU COME TO ME AFTER GETTING MY CODE AND ASK ME WHY IT DOESN'T WORK ON ES, OR DOESN'T WORK ON NQ OR WHICHEVER INDEX YOU THINK IT MIGHT WORK ON, IT DOESN'T! JESUS MOTHERFUCKING CHRIST HOW LONG HAVE I WAITED JUST TO LAY THE SMACK DOWN ON THIS CHARLATAN AND WHEN I TELL YOU THAT MORE BRAINCELLS HAVE BEEN WASTED THINKING THIS CON ARTIST HAS ANYTHING BUT EMPTY PROMISES AND YEARS OF FAILURE I AM NOT LYING. THIS WHOLE THREAD PROVES IT. EVERY BIT OF IT. NO, DON'T BE A FUCKING MORON AND TELL ME THAT YOU HAD TO RE-OPTIMIZE OR SOMETHING STUPID LIKE THAT. YOU DON'T HAVE TO CHANGE A FUCKING THING WITH THE SCRIPT. NO OPTIMIZATION IS REQUIRED. DON'T EVER OPTIMIZE BECAUSE THE SCRIPT AT THIS THREAD HAS ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO TEST, BUT SINCE MOST OF YOU ARE AT FIDELITY DOWNLOAD THE FUCKING DATA IN THE EXCEL FUCKING SPREADSHEET FILE THEN SEE IF YOUR SYSTEM WHICH I'M SURE YOU CODED CORRECTLY WORKS, BECAUSE IT WORKS "AS-IS" WITH NO MODIFICATIONS REQUIRED SO GODDAMIT DON'T EVER TELL ME YOU WANT TO USE JACK HERSHEY'S METHOD FOR TRADING ES BECAUSE HE'S A FAKE! HE'S A FRAUD! IF YOU WANT PROOF ABOUT THE DISCREPANCY BETWEEN YEARS OF CHARLATANISM AND ENDLESS, DRIVEL AND PSYCHOBABBLE PUT THE DATA INTO WHATEVER SIMULATOR YOU HAVE AND THEN GO AND BACKTEST BECAUSE I'M GOING OFF LIKE THIS BECAUSE IF I HAVE TO SUFFER ANOTHER ONE OF THESE GODDAM THREADS WHERE ANOTHER STUPID ALIAS STARTS A THREAD ABOUT JACK HERSHEY THEN GO ON! READ EVERY LAST WORD OF THIS THREAD AND IF YOU ARE NOT COMPLETELY SATISFIED BY WHAT I'VE POSTED THERE THEN YOU HAVE WASTED MY TIME. DON'T EVER WASTE MY TIME ASKING ABOUT JACK HERSHEY'S METHOD BECAUSE THE VALUES HAVE BEEN FIXED SINCE EARLY 2000 AND WHENEVER I HEAR ABOUT DUMASSES WHO THINK THEY CAN JUST ASK QUESTIONS AND FIND ANSWERS THIS MAN WILL NEVER GIVE YOU A STRAIGHT ANSWER BECAUSE THAT IS HIS LAME ASS MODUS OPERANDI HE PROBABLY LEARNED IN SECONDARY SCHOOL. I WANT EVERYONE TO KNOW THAT THERE IS NO OTHER DATASET IN THE GALAXY THAT WILL GIVE YOU A PROFITABLE BACKTEST OF HIS METHOD, LET ALONE A WALK FORWARD ONE. SO SAVE YOURSELF YEARS OF PAIN AND AGONY WONDERING IF YOU'LL EVER GET IT. YOU WILL IF YOU FOLLOW ALL OF MY INSTRUCTIONS TO THE T, AND IF YOU ASK ME IF YOU HAVE TO CHANGE HIS METHOD ABSOLUTELY FUCKING NOT. THOSE VARIABLES ARE FIXED, SET IN STONE, THEY'VE NEVER CHANGED! SO DON'T TALK TO ME ABOUT CURVE FITS BECAUSE THIS GODDAM THREAD IS 3 FUCKING YEARS OLD, AND i KNOW THE DATASET IS STALE BUT IT'S THE ONLY REMNANT OF PROOF WE HAVE THAT IT COULD BE PROFITABLE. IT JUST ISN'T PROFITABLE ON ANY GODDAM SYMBOL BUT .SPX. THAT'S IT. YOU HAVE SPYDERTRADER AND JACK HERSHEY ANONYMOUSLY AT TIMES EXCHANGING TRADING INFORMATION. JACK HAD THE METHOD, AND SPYDERTRADER CODED IT, BUT NOT ONLY HAS ALL OF JACK HERSHEY'S LOGIC BEEN COMPILED HERE, BUT THE RESULTS AT THE TIME OUGHT TO BE JUST AS STRIKING BUT THERE IS REALLY NO OTHER WAY THAT I CAN TELL YOU TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO USE HIS METHOD THAN BY DOWNLOAD THE ASCII EXCEL SPREADSHEET OR TXT FILE THAT YOU THEN WILL HAVE TO ESPECIALLY LOAD BY USING THE RIGHT FORMATS AND THAT WAS SOMETHING LIKE YYYYMNDD AND SOME TIMES SO IF YOU HAVE A BACKTESTING PROGRAM THEN YOU'VE GOT TO READ THIS ENTIRE THREAD! DON'T EVER WASTE ANYMORE PAGES WONDERING IF JACK'S METHOD WORKS SO WELL WHY CAN'T ANYONE PROVE IT? I DID PROVE IT, SEVERAL YEARS AGO. COMPARE THE ES TO .SPX AND I FUCKING GUARANDAMTEE YOU THAT IF YOU EVER WANT TO FUCKING KNOW IF HIS METHOD REALLY IS AS GREAT AS HE SAYS IT IS OR PRETENDS THAT IT IS, THEN PUT AN END TO YOUR JACK HERSHEY METHOD FANTASIES, BECAUSE THIS THREAD BLEW OPEN THE DOOR OF EVERYTHING JACK HOLDS DEAR, AND IF YOU REALLY WANTED TO FUCKING HELP YOU POOR, LOST SOULS HE WOULD JUST GIVE YOU THE CODE TO USE. BUT HE'S A PATHOLOGICAL LIAR, A FRAUD, AND A CHARLATAN. IF YOU DON'T LISTEN TO ANY WORDS OTHER THAN WHERE I START THIS MUCH NEEDED RANT THEN PLEASE, BY ALL MEANS, READ EVERY FUCKING WORD IN THIS THREAD AND DOWNLOAD THE DATA AND COMPARE IT TO ES. IF YOU DON'T SEE THE DIFFERENCE YOU GUYS ARE FUCKING STUPID! IDIOTIC GODDAMIT! I'M TIRED OF PEOPLE ASKING WHY THEY CAN'T GET A PROFITABLE BACKTEST, LET ALONE A PROFITABLE PERIOD OF WALK FORWARD RESULTS. JESUS CHRIST THIS THREAD IS EXACTLY WHY SOMEONE NEEDS TO GO OFF ON ALL OF JACK'S LAME HORSERADDISH STUPIDITY.
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...y&pagenumber=63 http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...y&pagenumber=56 http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.
I KNOW PUBLIC RANTING IS BAD BUT SERIOUSLY, JACK HERSHEY IS MORE THAN A LITTLE OFF BASE WHEN IT COMES TO PRETENSION, SO DON'T EVER LET ME HEAR ANOTHER FUCKING WORD ABOUT WHETHER HIS METHOD WORKS. IT'S A JOKE. THE METHOD HAS ONLY BEEN SHOWN TO BE PROFITABLE IN THIS BACKTEST, SO PLEASE DON'T EVER WASTE ANYMORE TIME LISTENING TO THIS PSYCHOTIC PSYCHOBABBLER. JACK HERSHEY KNOWS HE IS SENILE, BUT IT IS ONLY WHEN YOU REALLY START TO STUDY THE SCOTTD THREADS AND THE JACK HERSHEY METHOD EXPOSED AS A FRAUD THREAD THAT I KNOW IF ANY OF YOU ARE REALLY SO INTERESTED THEN YOU WILL FUCKING READ EVERY GODDAM WORD OF THIS THREAD IN ITS ENTIRETY. THEN I WANT YOU TO DOWNLOAD THE ASCII DATA. NEXT PROGRAM THE LOGIC, AND TEST YOUR SCRIPT ON THE DATA. THEN, IF POSSIBLE, DOWNLOAD DATA FOR ES FROM THE SAME TIME PERIOD AND I'M NOT LYING IT WILL NOT BE ANYWHERE NEAR THE PROFITABILITY OF WHAT WAS SHOWN IN THIS THREAD. DON'T THINK I'M YELLING JUST TO BE A LOUD MOUTH. NO, JACK HERSHEY SHOULD BE ASHAMED AT ALL THE HORRIBLE THINGS HE'S SAID ABOUT CONDESCENDING INDIVIDUALS WHEN HE IS JUST AS CONDESCENDING IF NOT MORESO. I WANT THIS TO BE HIS EPITAPH BECAUSE HE CAN'T HAVE TOO MUCH LONGER TO LIVE, AND WE'LL PROBABLY NEVER EVEN KNOW ANYTHING HAS HAPPENED BECAUSE HE'S THAT FUCKING SENILE.
__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?
Bud Fox
Wall Street
Quote from bwolinsky:
[B]
... I WANT EVERYONE TO KNOW THAT THERE IS NO OTHER DATASET IN THE GALAXY THAT WILL GIVE YOU A PROFITABLE BACKTEST OF HIS METHOD, ...
et seems to falling off the cliff
Quote from nkhoi:
didn't I say you can't backtest this method already? Your backtest profitable on some obscure Fildelity dataset was purely coincidental.
__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?
Bud Fox
Wall Street
Quote from bwolinsky:
DON'T EVER LISTEN TO ANOTHER FUCKING STUPID ASS 4 VARIABLE MARKOV CHAIN RANT BY JACK HERSHEY. READ THIS ENTIRE THREAD AND BE SURE TO DOWNLOAD THE ASCII DATAFILE AT THE END OF THE THREAD SO THAT YOU CAN SEE THAT JACK HERSHEY'S METHOD DOES NOT WORK ON ANYTHING BUT IN WEALTH-LAB BECAUSE THAT WAS WHERE THE THEORY ORIGINATED AND IT IS ONLY PROFITABLE IN WEALTH LAB SO DON'T LET ANOTHER PSYCHO BABBLE MULTI PARAGRAPH THREAD BY THIS MAN LEAVE YOU WONDERING IF HE HAS A SYSTEM THAT'S PROFITABLE ENOUGH. SEE FOR YOURSELF, BUT DON'T GO OFF ON YOUR LONESOME AND THINK THAT YOU WILL EVER FIND A SET OF PARAMETERS THAT WILL MAGICALLY GIVE YOU THE JACK HERSHEY METHOD. THIS THREAD IS ENTIRELY DEVOTED TO DETERMINING THE PROFITABILITY OF JACK HERSHEY'S METHOD, CIRCA 2008 AND NOT A DAM THING HAS CHANGED. HE'S JUST AS ALOOF, JUST AS STRANGE, DEMENTED AND WHEN IT COMES TO SAVING THE MASSES FROM MORE YEARS OF CURIOSITY THIS IS IT. DON'T EVER REVIEW THE HUNDREDS OF PAGES OF DRIVEL THIS MAN HAS SPEWED ALL OVER THE INTERNET BECAUSE THIS THREAD GETS IT. YEAH, OH, YEAH! THAT'S REAL! I'M GOING OFF BECAUSE I STILL HAVE PEOPLE ASKING ME WHAT HIS CODE IS, AND YET THERE SEEM TO BE MANY WHO STILL COME TO ET JUST TO BE LEAD LIKE COWS TO THE SLAUGHTER WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO YOU IF YOU DO NOT DO ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING I TELL YOU I DID IN THIS THREAD. DOWNLOAD THE ASCII DATA AND THEN BACKTEST IT YOU MORONS. JACK HERSHEY'S SCRIPT IS NOT DESIGNED TO TRADE ANYTHING BUT .SPX AT FIDELITY. THERE ISN'T ANY SYMBOL IN THIS UNIVERSE THAT WILL ALLOW YOU TO TRADE HIS METHOD PROFITABLY BECAUSE SO FEW OF YOU HAVE EVEN EVER THOUGHT ABOUT BACKTESTING USING WEALTH LAB PRO AND UNFORTUNATELY NOW I THINK THE CODE THERE IS LIMITED TO THE OLD PERL, SO IF YOU WANT TO KNOW HOW WELL HIS FUCKING METHOD GODDAMIT YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE RIGHT GODAM FUCKING DATA! IF YOU COME TO ME AFTER GETTING MY CODE AND ASK ME WHY IT DOESN'T WORK ON ES, OR DOESN'T WORK ON NQ OR WHICHEVER INDEX YOU THINK IT MIGHT WORK ON, IT DOESN'T! JESUS MOTHERFUCKING CHRIST HOW LONG HAVE I WAITED JUST TO LAY THE SMACK DOWN ON THIS CHARLATAN AND WHEN I TELL YOU THAT MORE BRAINCELLS HAVE BEEN WASTED THINKING THIS CON ARTIST HAS ANYTHING BUT EMPTY PROMISES AND YEARS OF FAILURE I AM NOT LYING. THIS WHOLE THREAD PROVES IT. EVERY BIT OF IT. NO, DON'T BE A FUCKING MORON AND TELL ME THAT YOU HAD TO RE-OPTIMIZE OR SOMETHING STUPID LIKE THAT. YOU DON'T HAVE TO CHANGE A FUCKING THING WITH THE SCRIPT. NO OPTIMIZATION IS REQUIRED. DON'T EVER OPTIMIZE BECAUSE THE SCRIPT AT THIS THREAD HAS ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO TEST, BUT SINCE MOST OF YOU ARE AT FIDELITY DOWNLOAD THE FUCKING DATA IN THE EXCEL FUCKING SPREADSHEET FILE THEN SEE IF YOUR SYSTEM WHICH I'M SURE YOU CODED CORRECTLY WORKS, BECAUSE IT WORKS "AS-IS" WITH NO MODIFICATIONS REQUIRED SO GODDAMIT DON'T EVER TELL ME YOU WANT TO USE JACK HERSHEY'S METHOD FOR TRADING ES BECAUSE HE'S A FAKE! HE'S A FRAUD! IF YOU WANT PROOF ABOUT THE DISCREPANCY BETWEEN YEARS OF CHARLATANISM AND ENDLESS, DRIVEL AND PSYCHOBABBLE PUT THE DATA INTO WHATEVER SIMULATOR YOU HAVE AND THEN GO AND BACKTEST BECAUSE I'M GOING OFF LIKE THIS BECAUSE IF I HAVE TO SUFFER ANOTHER ONE OF THESE GODDAM THREADS WHERE ANOTHER STUPID ALIAS STARTS A THREAD ABOUT JACK HERSHEY THEN GO ON! READ EVERY LAST WORD OF THIS THREAD AND IF YOU ARE NOT COMPLETELY SATISFIED BY WHAT I'VE POSTED THERE THEN YOU HAVE WASTED MY TIME. DON'T EVER WASTE MY TIME ASKING ABOUT JACK HERSHEY'S METHOD BECAUSE THE VALUES HAVE BEEN FIXED SINCE EARLY 2000 AND WHENEVER I HEAR ABOUT DUMASSES WHO THINK THEY CAN JUST ASK QUESTIONS AND FIND ANSWERS THIS MAN WILL NEVER GIVE YOU A STRAIGHT ANSWER BECAUSE THAT IS HIS LAME ASS MODUS OPERANDI HE PROBABLY LEARNED IN SECONDARY SCHOOL. I WANT EVERYONE TO KNOW THAT THERE IS NO OTHER DATASET IN THE GALAXY THAT WILL GIVE YOU A PROFITABLE BACKTEST OF HIS METHOD, LET ALONE A WALK FORWARD ONE. SO SAVE YOURSELF YEARS OF PAIN AND AGONY WONDERING IF YOU'LL EVER GET IT. YOU WILL IF YOU FOLLOW ALL OF MY INSTRUCTIONS TO THE T, AND IF YOU ASK ME IF YOU HAVE TO CHANGE HIS METHOD ABSOLUTELY FUCKING NOT. THOSE VARIABLES ARE FIXED, SET IN STONE, THEY'VE NEVER CHANGED! SO DON'T TALK TO ME ABOUT CURVE FITS BECAUSE THIS GODDAM THREAD IS 3 FUCKING YEARS OLD, AND i KNOW THE DATASET IS STALE BUT IT'S THE ONLY REMNANT OF PROOF WE HAVE THAT IT COULD BE PROFITABLE. IT JUST ISN'T PROFITABLE ON ANY GODDAM SYMBOL BUT .SPX. THAT'S IT. YOU HAVE SPYDERTRADER AND JACK HERSHEY ANONYMOUSLY AT TIMES EXCHANGING TRADING INFORMATION. JACK HAD THE METHOD, AND SPYDERTRADER CODED IT, BUT NOT ONLY HAS ALL OF JACK HERSHEY'S LOGIC BEEN COMPILED HERE, BUT THE RESULTS AT THE TIME OUGHT TO BE JUST AS STRIKING BUT THERE IS REALLY NO OTHER WAY THAT I CAN TELL YOU TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO USE HIS METHOD THAN BY DOWNLOAD THE ASCII EXCEL SPREADSHEET OR TXT FILE THAT YOU THEN WILL HAVE TO ESPECIALLY LOAD BY USING THE RIGHT FORMATS AND THAT WAS SOMETHING LIKE YYYYMNDD AND SOME TIMES SO IF YOU HAVE A BACKTESTING PROGRAM THEN YOU'VE GOT TO READ THIS ENTIRE THREAD! DON'T EVER WASTE ANYMORE PAGES WONDERING IF JACK'S METHOD WORKS SO WELL WHY CAN'T ANYONE PROVE IT? I DID PROVE IT, SEVERAL YEARS AGO. COMPARE THE ES TO .SPX AND I FUCKING GUARANDAMTEE YOU THAT IF YOU EVER WANT TO FUCKING KNOW IF HIS METHOD REALLY IS AS GREAT AS HE SAYS IT IS OR PRETENDS THAT IT IS, THEN PUT AN END TO YOUR JACK HERSHEY METHOD FANTASIES, BECAUSE THIS THREAD BLEW OPEN THE DOOR OF EVERYTHING JACK HOLDS DEAR, AND IF YOU REALLY WANTED TO FUCKING HELP YOU POOR, LOST SOULS HE WOULD JUST GIVE YOU THE CODE TO USE. BUT HE'S A PATHOLOGICAL LIAR, A FRAUD, AND A CHARLATAN. IF YOU DON'T LISTEN TO ANY WORDS OTHER THAN WHERE I START THIS MUCH NEEDED RANT THEN PLEASE, BY ALL MEANS, READ EVERY FUCKING WORD IN THIS THREAD AND DOWNLOAD THE DATA AND COMPARE IT TO ES. IF YOU DON'T SEE THE DIFFERENCE YOU GUYS ARE FUCKING STUPID! IDIOTIC GODDAMIT! I'M TIRED OF PEOPLE ASKING WHY THEY CAN'T GET A PROFITABLE BACKTEST, LET ALONE A PROFITABLE PERIOD OF WALK FORWARD RESULTS. JESUS CHRIST THIS THREAD IS EXACTLY WHY SOMEONE NEEDS TO GO OFF ON ALL OF JACK'S LAME HORSERADDISH STUPIDITY.
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...y&pagenumber=63 http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...y&pagenumber=56 http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.
I KNOW PUBLIC RANTING IS BAD BUT SERIOUSLY, JACK HERSHEY IS MORE THAN A LITTLE OFF BASE WHEN IT COMES TO PRETENSION, SO DON'T EVER LET ME HEAR ANOTHER FUCKING WORD ABOUT WHETHER HIS METHOD WORKS. IT'S A JOKE. THE METHOD HAS ONLY BEEN SHOWN TO BE PROFITABLE IN THIS BACKTEST, SO PLEASE DON'T EVER WASTE ANYMORE TIME LISTENING TO THIS PSYCHOTIC PSYCHOBABBLER. JACK HERSHEY KNOWS HE IS SENILE, BUT IT IS ONLY WHEN YOU REALLY START TO STUDY THE SCOTTD THREADS AND THE JACK HERSHEY METHOD EXPOSED AS A FRAUD THREAD THAT I KNOW IF ANY OF YOU ARE REALLY SO INTERESTED THEN YOU WILL FUCKING READ EVERY GODDAM WORD OF THIS THREAD IN ITS ENTIRETY. THEN I WANT YOU TO DOWNLOAD THE ASCII DATA. NEXT PROGRAM THE LOGIC, AND TEST YOUR SCRIPT ON THE DATA. THEN, IF POSSIBLE, DOWNLOAD DATA FOR ES FROM THE SAME TIME PERIOD AND I'M NOT LYING IT WILL NOT BE ANYWHERE NEAR THE PROFITABILITY OF WHAT WAS SHOWN IN THIS THREAD. DON'T THINK I'M YELLING JUST TO BE A LOUD MOUTH. NO, JACK HERSHEY SHOULD BE ASHAMED AT ALL THE HORRIBLE THINGS HE'S SAID ABOUT CONDESCENDING INDIVIDUALS WHEN HE IS JUST AS CONDESCENDING IF NOT MORESO. I WANT THIS TO BE HIS EPITAPH BECAUSE HE CAN'T HAVE TOO MUCH LONGER TO LIVE, AND WE'LL PROBABLY NEVER EVEN KNOW ANYTHING HAS HAPPENED BECAUSE HE'S THAT FUCKING SENILE.
Quote from PointOne:
Top ranting.
__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?
Bud Fox
Wall Street
Quote from timenspace:
Pardon me
But your question (obviously written in some strange form of hieroglyphics) is preposterous and I don't give a shit if you fluke the odd top with Jack's rubbish.. it simply doesn't work and neither you or Jack can show me a single person that's become successful with it.. including Jack himself who is broke and in debt to the taxman
Everything else is bullshit if you can't show me one single follower (after more than 10 years of Jack's mentoring) that has any real money
You simply can't
__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?
Bud Fox
Wall Street
Quote from timenspace:
partying with any of these ladies Jack?
Didn't think so
Own one of these Jack?
You used to say you did until we researched the name of the boat you gave and it turned out to be owned by someone else
Surely you are driving something like this around with that cash cow getting 3x the daily range everyday without a single loss?
No?
)
Quote from bwolinsky:
It was a good one wasn't it? Guess I need to keep the bold capslock on. It really did drive home the point, didn't it?
At least nkhoi,unlike many of u hear,keep staying supportive and polite at all times.You are all led by tamas where ignorance=anxiety .
(still didn't answer the why question)you are the biggest follower/detractor,i can't figure out why a guy of your iq would spend so much time changing handles and chasing jack,again,tell the world why you are saving us from jack,in plain english or hieroglyphics if you want
Quote from timenspace:
Pardon me
But your question (obviously written in some strange form of hieroglyphics) is preposterous and I don't give a shit if you fluke the odd top with Jack's rubbish.. it simply doesn't work and neither you or Jack can show me a single person that's become successful with it.. including Jack himself who is broke and in debt to the taxman
Everything else is bullshit if you can't show me one single follower (after more than 10 years of Jack's mentoring) that has any real money
You simply can't
Quote from timenspace:
partying with any of these ladies Jack?
Didn't think so
Own one of these Jack?
You used to say you did until we researched the name of the boat you gave and it turned out to be owned by someone else
Surely you are driving something like this around with that cash cow getting 3x the daily range everyday without a single loss?
No?
bwolinsky says he ran a backtest on specific rules from an old system.
But I don't understand anyone's claim that a current system (whatever form it is currently in) can't be backtested.
To say that is to basically say there is a profitable system that has rules that are not definable. If so, that would be a "faith-based" system, or like telling Luke to use the Force.
If a system has vague rules, it can't be taught, let alone learned.
Woodie's CCI used to get around that with something called "nuances" to rules. But WTF is a "nuance" except a sub-rule to a rule? The term is just used as an obfuscation technique.
Walk-forward testing is always necessary. Backtesting is necessary but not sufficient in itself. But not sufficient does not mean "useless". To say that a system can't be backtested is a cop-out and the first sign of a charlatan.
Question to Jack
Hello Jack,
it seems you sure bring out the crazies lol....(to the crazies: Please! Go away...I have not done anything to you...most of you are invisible but one of you forces me to drop another sock puppet in the ignore bin every time I log on, which is mildly irritating. Perhaps you want to open another thread called "Questions to the crazies").
To Jack: am drilling..did almost 4 months of charts, drawing price from Vol bars only. This definitely helps! Now I am trying to see the tells that foreshadow WHICH vol peak will be the real FTT... I do not see that this decision can be done by Volume alone, it seems to be a combination of the price bar and the gaussians/ pace.
Here is a refinement question if you can find the time:
I understand that formations straddling the RTL cause the RTL to fan. Was wondering if you could perhaps give some guidance as to WHICH RTL the formation/pennant causes to fan.
Sometimes this can be seen to apply to 2 nestled containers, a traverse and a channel for example. A formation cand straddle both.
Please see attached today's chart for an example.
I am trying to find a systematic way of dealing with this... like much about this method, I am sure it is context-dependent.
"FFF" does not seem to solve the issue in this case...?
TYVM as always for your help!
Best,
Vienna
__________________
Vienna
I still can't get the purpose of fanning.Vienna,do you realize the purpose of doing the fan drills??
Re: Question to Jack
Quote from Vienna:
Hello Jack,
it seems you sure bring out the crazies lol....(to the crazies: Please! Go away...I have not done anything to you...most of you are invisible but one of you forces me to drop another sock puppet in the ignore bin every time I log on, which is mildly irritating. Perhaps you want to open another thread called "Questions to the crazies").
To Jack: am drilling..did almost 4 months of charts, drawing price from Vol bars only. This definitely helps! Now I am trying to see the tells that foreshadow WHICH vol peak will be the real FTT... I do not see that this decision can be done by Volume alone, it seems to be a combination of the price bar and the gaussians/ pace.
Here is a refinement question if you can find the time:
I understand that formations straddling the RTL cause the RTL to fan. Was wondering if you could perhaps give some guidance as to WHICH RTL the formation/pennant causes to fan.
Sometimes this can be seen to apply to 2 nestled containers, a traverse and a channel for example. A formation cand straddle both.
Please see attached today's chart for an example.
I am trying to find a systematic way of dealing with this... like much about this method, I am sure it is context-dependent.
"FFF" does not seem to solve the issue in this case...?
TYVM as always for your help!
Best,
Vienna
Quote from MarketMasher:
I WANT EVERY ONE OF THOSE TOO!! (Ok, not particularly. Maybe just the babes
Will Jack Hershey's system get them for me? I am eager to learn!!
BTW bwolinsky, what do you REALLY think?
__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?
Bud Fox
Wall Street
The essence of JHM is to STAY ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE MARKET. It is NOT about finding ftt/FTT. See why so many fools cannot get it?
Context, context, context. What are PEAK and TROUGH? In some cases, a pair of 5-min price and volume bars are not sufficient to know that you know. Drill down inside them to know more.
Jack should say 'Thank you' to you (all detractors). Jack is really sharp in ET. The more detracting actions, the more people (I am one of them) learning Jack's method.
You guys probably tried to learn SCT, but failed. You detract just because you don't want other people to "get" SCT.
Well, keeping going. Why don't you create new threadS to argue with Jack?
Here are some good titles for your reference:
"Anyone pulling money out of MF Global, except Jack Hershey"
"Break up with Jack Hershey"
"IB TWS sucks because of Jack Hershey"
"Crazy Jack Hershey"
"Jack Hershey's gibberish"
It will be great if the top 20 forums showing "Jack Hershey"! Looking forward to seeing this.
Please do it because I don't have time.
Quote from SK0:
The essence of JHM is to STAY ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE MARKET. It is NOT about finding ftt/FTT. See why so many fools cannot get it?
Quote from PointOne:
Yes, yes, yes.
Wait... what?
Quote from Jack Hershey:
The logic in the endeavor should always point to the next fractal as long as its within a nested loop. When you move to the next fractal ftt will traverse the pv and pv traverses the next multiverse traverset. If it doesn't cross the multiverse the traverset must end the ftt, which is only known after the first multiverse ends the traversets nested fractal loop.
__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?
Bud Fox
Wall Street
Thanks for deleting my post. I guess it's too much to ask for proof of Jack's profitability, eh?
you give me too much credit/power but hey I appreciate it.
Quote from nkhoi:
you give me too much credit/power but hey I appreciate it.
There are a lot of ideas from Jack that you can use to create a framework for your own strategy, even if you don't believe in his claims.
I think it's optimistic to believe that even 1 in a 100 would be profitable learning a trading strategy through an internet forum - almost no matter what strategy it is.
I actually think papertraders like me are among the most successful traders on this site, cause we don't bleed money. An elite, you could say.
In that perspective the bashing becomes kind of embarrassing.
Your turn to hit.
Quote from bmwhendrix:
Studying chop today. I don't like it!
as usual,another thread trashed by bashers for the last several pages,do you guys add anything ,is the world already bad enough...bitching and moaning ..endlessly
Quote from bwolinsky:
Yeah, what? Did he say an acronym I don't need to know nor should I care about? Is that what I heard? Was he talking about the ftt financial transaction tax?
There, I've said my piece. (He would probably never add which to any of his sentences, but not a bad impersonation, huh?)
Get it?
Next, as soon as Jackass responds we'll need to tell him how awesome he's doing, and how he must be on fire with all these great psychobabbles bubbling out of his chin like some half epileptic nympho whose fetish is watching the ftt traverse above the last nestal fracted loop. I'm sure that's the only way the old geezer can get off, too!
Although no one seems interested, here's the resistence level drawn premarket, 1221.25. Two ticks from HOD.
S + R = Lateral channel that you can't find on a traditional chart.
s +r ,can you explain
Quote from ammo:
s +r ,can you explain
If you're interested:
Poll: Rants against Hershey and those who follow his posts
Quote from PointOne:
Yes, yes, yes.
Wait... what?
Quote from baro-san:
If you're interested:
Poll: Rants against Hershey and those who follow his posts
Quote from MarketMasher:
bwolinsky says he ran a backtest on specific rules from an old system.
But I don't understand anyone's claim that a current system (whatever form it is currently in) can't be backtested.
To say that is to basically say there is a profitable system that has rules that are not definable. If so, that would be a "faith-based" system, or like telling Luke to use the Force.
If a system has vague rules, it can't be taught, let alone learned.
Woodie's CCI used to get around that with something called "nuances" to rules. But WTF is a "nuance" except a sub-rule to a rule? The term is just used as an obfuscation technique.
Walk-forward testing is always necessary. Backtesting is necessary but not sufficient in itself. But not sufficient does not mean "useless". To say that a system can't be backtested is a cop-out and the first sign of a charlatan.
__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?
Bud Fox
Wall Street
Quote from bwolinsky:
DATA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DATA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DATA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DID I SAY???????
DATA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Backtest it with the only dataset that was the one he uses. It's not ES or any other futures symbol. It is only .SPX, and I'm sure thousands of people have some copy of his system, but none of them tried to figure out why if spydertrader was such a great technician why he's only known as writing jack hershey methods scripts that peeked at data....at FIDELITY, which is wealth lab. Use the right data and you'll probably get the expected result. Use the wrong data and you will fail. I guarantee without that data you will fail. You will always fail.
You don't have the right data.
That's why it doesn't work.
I hear you have:
DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAA
Quote from MarketMasher:
Didn't someone say the system (currently) can't be back-tested, only forward-tested?
Not sure why that would be - the rules are too vague? It only runs on instruments that are newly created and have no historical data? The Force is not strong with it?
What would be the reason?
At 3x's daily ATR and on a compounded basis, I'm thinking this system can be used pay off the National Debt! A patriot would offer it to the country and save America!!
__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?
Bud Fox
Wall Street
Quote from MarketMasher:
Didn't someone say the system (currently) can't be back-tested, only forward-tested?
Not sure why that would be - the rules are too vague? It only runs on instruments that are newly created and have no historical data? The Force is not strong with it?
What would be the reason?
At 3x's daily ATR and on a compounded basis, I'm thinking this system can be used pay off the National Debt! A patriot would offer it to the country and save America!!
Quote from RCG Trader:
sigh
backtest r2r and b2b.....
be sure to include pace in your backtests......
if you do not know what I am talking about, all else is everywhere else, so look it up.
Quote from MarketMasher:
Can you post a Performance Report so I can see if I am going in the right direction?
__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?
Bud Fox
Wall Street
Do you love America? Home of the Brave. Land of the Free....
Such a system that gets 3x's ATR daily compounded can save America from the financial disaster of crushing debt!
Will someone step forward and save America?
Picture this - his picture on the cover of TIME with the caption - "A Committee of One To Save The World"
It would be epic.
Quote from MarketMasher:
Do you love America? Home of the Brave. Land of the Free....
Such a system that gets 3x's ATR daily compounded can save America from the financial disaster of crushing debt!
Will someone step forward and save America?
Picture this - his picture on the cover of TIME with the caption - "A Committee of One To Save The World"
It would be epic.
__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?
Bud Fox
Wall Street
Quote from MarketMasher:
Can you post a Performance Report so I can see if I am going in the right direction?
Quote from bwolinsky:
Listen to me, I'll put this succinctly:
Jack Hershey is a fraud, and the name of his system is really Jack Hershey Fraud Methods. There are only two people in this world with systems that can do that, and JACK IS NOT ONE OF THEM.
Quit dreaming and posting these stupid replies that arguably have absolutely NOTHING to do with determining the validity of Jack Hershey's Fraud.
Fraud? Does fraud sound like it's something worth pursuing? Quit bringing the dreamliner out already, it's taken WAY TOO LONG to see the light of day.
Now that it has seen the light of day, for more than 3 years now I might add, if nobody's posting accurately reported results then IT'S STILL A FRAUD. The fraud isn't so much that he's lying about it being profitable it's a fraud in the sense that it is absolutely, completely NOT CAPABLE OF PRODUCING THAT LEVEL OF PERFORMANCE... EVER....EVER... EVER...EVER...AND...EVER...NEVER...EVER...Ever.
If you're ignoring me and the pm I sent you then I'm considering ignoring you because you're just as clueless as anybody who thinks his method is anything else BUT A FRAUD. He has violated every rule with regard to what you can say about profitable trading methods and if you don't know why exaggeration and overstating performance is bad, then you ARE CLUELESS.
You don't have to be clueless. The data and the program. Go test it, and when you have your results you'll find them only marginally profitable if it's even still profitable. Most likely I'm still the only one that was able to turn a profitable backtest from all the worthless coding behind a less than 50 line program.
Quote from MarketMasher:
Dude, relax.
You seem like a sincere sort, but I'm not taking any orders today. Probably not tomorrow either. No offense.
RCG Trader has declined to help. That's enough.
Quote from RCG Trader:
I did not decline to help, I did tell you what to backtest.
If someone gives you something for free, then it is up to you to determine the value of it.
If you cannot determine the value of it, then it is not valuable to you, and you should move on to other strats that can help you. The only thing JH cost you is a little bit of time.
Quote from MarketMasher:
I tried on some recent data but my curve doesn't look right.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/97/try01.png/
Shouldn't the curve go parabolic and then stay vertical?
Can you post your successful implementation so I can see?
Quote from RCG Trader:
The curve you posted will suffice. Now go turn that theory into actuality.
Quote from MarketMasher:
I am getting troughs and flat periods, so this is definitely incorrect in at least some respects.
I would like to see what a proper implementation looks like. Please post it so I can compare. It would not be revealing any methods, but at least I could see how far off the mark I am.
Thanks!
Quote from RCG Trader:
I stopped backtesting many years ago when I discovered the inherent flaws present in almost every backtesting program. The key here is to understand the concepts, use them to make the best trading decision you can at that moment, know exactly where to get out if you are wrong, and stick to what you are doing, the rest will take care of itself.
More free advice, I suggest you ponder it.
Quote from MarketMasher:
And I wasted all that time creating a junk system...
damn.
Quote from RCG Trader:
Hey, it happens.
Quote from SK0:
Why waste your time with them?
As long as they don't spend quality time to annotate, MADA, and think CRITICALLY on the concepts posted by Jack, they will forever have no idea how to get out of their own trap.
Quote from raidnfade:
Einsten's definition of insanity was doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Under that criteria and considering after so many years you have still had not made money with Jack's 'method' I think you may be a victim of psychological projection.
Of course feel free to prove me wrong.. no Hershey follower ever has but maybe you are more skilled with Paintshop than they were.
Or maybe it's just easier to put the people who ask the hard questions on ignore [/B]
Does this include creating hundreds of aliases, saying the same shit over and over again, and then getting banned each and every time?
Quote from raidnfade:
Einsten's definition of insanity was doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
How could you save anyone? Like I said, you do the same thing over and over again and each time all your posts are removed and your alias banned. You're not reaching anyone, you're just living out the definition of insanity :0
I'm trying to save your sad deluded soul here, end the madness and do something new with your life.
Quote from raidnfade:
Yes as does PM'ing me all the time.. but if I save just one sad deluded soul such as yourself Ras it's all worth it ;)
Quote from R. Raskolnikov:
How could you save anyone? Like I said, you do the same thing over and over again and each time all your posts are removed and your alias banned. You're not reaching anyone, you're just living out the definition of insanity :0
I'm trying to save your sad deluded soul here, end the madness and do something new with your life.
Quote from raidnfade:
...it's at least 10 years of your life so far man.. you gotta know when to turn away from something that doesn't work.
Quote from MarketMasher:
I tried on some recent data but my curve doesn't look right.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/97/try01.png/
Shouldn't the curve go parabolic and then stay vertical?
Can you post your successful implementation so I can see?
Quote from jack hershey:
Start slowly.
Use the one pager for PVT.
It takes about 15 minutes to run a year long test.
To exactly duplicate a past test by Worden Bros staff at TradersExpo, use their drag and drop (Bloxs) to get the logic. Then use a Universe that is available to you like a performance level Universe. Worden used the NAZ 100. They repeated the test since the results exceeded any test they had ever run. They calc'ed the usual stats as well. Sharpe was over 60.
Anyone can use the rules and a Universe. Notice the rules are on the one pager and the criteria for the Universe is stated in the thread that posted trades in advance and then the results for over a year in ET.
Also you can duplicate the failure Trader666 did. He screwed up in several ways as I noted in my critique of his testing failure. Also or even, his test had no statisitical significance it turned out. I do not think he knew this nor does anyone else who posts his faulty chart.
I have invented several trading applications of various paradigms. With regard to all the the above, blowinsky has not done any work so related.
He has examined only the first (beginner level of an approach coded as Cash Cow where I presented some of the intial logic. subsequent levels of Cash Cow were not made public. They are documenteed in a combo of text, charts, logic flow sheets and Excel logic flow sheets. Blowinsky has seen none of this work.
The Cash Cow was an exercise that we enjoyed doing and it was done to simply create an ATS that used indicators as inputs. All the indicators were customized by using synchronistic defaults for the fractals traded. In Wikipedia I was creditied with revising the MACD and other indicators to the modern world of the PC. Pring, for example, adopted them four years later.
For humor and character assassination reflection, there once appeared on ET a system that didn't work. It had the out of date MACD and used the wrong signal generation. Also the MACD was offset in time artificially. I made a serious mistake in relating to its creator in order to offer suggestions. The person never recovered from what he assigned as the weight of my suggestions (which he deemed criticisms for his own reasons (youth, ignorance, etc, etc...)). I did not make public my suggestions since I felt they might be misinterpreted. Indeed they were.
So in summary, you are not going to be sucessful in trading or creating ATS of various market trading approaches. You will also be unable to create tooling in the form of snippets that increase the degrees of freedom for market analysis. The reason for this limitation(s) you have permanently incurred, have to do with the beliefs you have decided, irreversably, to adopt. Such adoptions have occurred sans reasoning through their potential damaging consequences.
There are two aspects of the mind involved here. One is that the mind does not have an "eraser" function. The second, is that the mind ignores the negative in communicated information.
Walk carefully on the ice gives you one picture.
Don't fall down on the ice gives you another picture.
For trading, your beliefs cannot work to form rational systems of though any longer. Too bad for you.
A lot of this thread deals with Q and A an SCT, an application of PEP. Seamless Continuous Trading replaces the CW mind orientation of the financial industry. Related to markets, what I have designed and have as system is like a foreign language to CW financial industry followers. therefore, it is not likely nor probably possible for a person who has no mind development or mind building from doing work in SCT or PEP to be able to understand anything I espouse.
Covel is a prize example of this impenatrable wall he encountered as a consequence of his faulty belief system. Many people attribute my building the walls. What, in fact, is true is that the walls are carried by those who fail to process my communications. Thus, I get a benefit, that is unearned or at least not costly.
It can be very costly to a person whose mind has been closed for that person to pursue learning about anything he is no longer capable of entertaining.
The standard for accomplishment is the market's offer. All things are measured against this performance level. The term "unbelievable" is one that is used by people who use their personal standard instead of the market's standard. So those people have simply built an artificial and permanent barrier that keeps them out of the potential place of learning how to trade by learning how markets work. You are one of those people who is denied the opportunity to walk through the open door.
Ha, I like this quote
Quote from MarketMasher:
I would say that I do try to keep an open mind - though as Janet Tavakoli once said - "Not so open that your brains fall out."
Still like the version outsource annotated previously
Quote from TIKITRADER:
Still like the version outsource annotated previously
Quote from MarketMasher:
One of the things that is interesting is if you add little fun acronyms to make things clearer in your mind you can remember them better
Nonsense.
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...57&#post2473857
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...19&#post2717619
Quote from jack hershey:
Also you can duplicate the failure Trader666 did. He screwed up in several ways as I noted in my critique of his testing failure. Also or even, his test had no statisitical significance it turned out. I do not think he knew this nor does anyone else who posts his faulty chart.
Quote from TIKITRADER:
Art , is this you ??? Looks like your style
Quote from DB_sezwhat:
I'm not sure, but I think Sierra Charts does it the best. rainman2(great guy
That is not a de-gapped chart, isn't it?
whats on the bottom of your chart
Quote from DB_sezwhat:
Continuing the series, here's a YM chart(which Lucrum knows is a leading indicator of ES) showing accumulation on its channeled fractal. The question becomes, "when does non-dominance become dominant?" This is a great example of showing before the fact What Must Come Next !
Quote from ammo:
whats on the bottom of your chart
Jack,is ADX/DMI included in your ten to twelve package?
Jack,I want some kind of a "+","-" indicator.Such as on my iPhone's volume,you know.You know.
Quote from pepdegree:
Jack,I want some kind of a "+","-" indicator.Such as on my iPhone's volume,you know.You know.
Quote from pepdegree:
Jack,I want some kind of a "+","-" indicator.Such as on my iPhone's volume,you know.You know.
Quote from jack hershey:
My view is that the trader's goal is to have a fully differentiated mind. I regard it as the greatest tooling "reading" the market
Quote from pepdegree:
What is the key in getting fully differentiated mind? It's not that easy to do.
How to differentiate the mind fully in the parametric system of the market's offering.
The hypotheses set forth the Vand P relationship over events. The parametric measures are four gerunds ('ing's). For a paradigm to work all Hypotheses must be "in kind".
Markets turn out to be cyclic; therefore two opposite trends determine a cycle. This announces the fractal nature of the markets and how fractal interlock. A parallelogram (or trapezoid) is the nonstationarity based container. Opposite sides are parallel.
The gerunds dictate the Parametric Measures as ratios of variables. I use a denominator of 1 which stands for one event. The numerators are for the IF'S and for the THEN's. Volume leads price.
HOW to build the mind is a process of creating long term memory for two sets that have a one to one corrspondence.
There is elasticity in the container and it is caused by two things: the units of measure of volume and price. Each one is a non continuous function.
This dictates the mathematics of the market operation. It is an algebra and the base is two. Thus, form the 1840's the mathematics became available. Boolean Algebra has many applications.
Use some ticks to make some bars. Use some instrument units to make some volume bars.
The first task is to ID all the identifiable constructs and combinations of these variables and to deduce the Hypothsis Set that comes from the relation of the two variables. In the language of Science and Mathematics, these are called Cases.
Your mind has to have these cases in long term memory. So discover them; prove they are the set; and arrange them in a continuum.
You have finite sets, and the elements are complete and the elements have an order of events and they form a simple container which cycles and which in terms of fractals are interlocking in a specific unchanging ratio.
This is knowledge and the amount of knowledge for a system is very small and very complete.
Before the PC and when the world began to use electricity, Market information was transmitted over wires and a series of events was made public to all that were equipped. When I canoed from Whitehorse to Dawson, I got to see the wires along the rivers and the battery operated relay stations along the way. I collected broken battery parts and tin cans as souveniers.
From the ticker tapes of the past, the HS and PM came about. Nothing has changed.
The HS and the Cases interrelate and complete the picture of building the mind. I call it "Putting the Pieces Together". This is how "tape reading" turns out to work.
All you do is use binary switches in the form of vectors to make money. There is no probability when it comes the the setting of a switch.
Two Cases of the market make money and all ther cases are squished to have the two cases that make m0oney. You have all the pieces and as they form you squish them into the "long" or the "short" case.
When a squishable case straddles a "right" boundary you decelerate the money velocity of the RTL by geometrically fanning the RTL. When the price exceds the LTL, you accelerate the boundary by redrawing the new steeper container.
So now you have your training encompassed and you use a display to show three interlocking levels of the market containers.
The schema for fully differentiating the mind, to read the market, is to drill on annotating a display which shows the cases as boxes. Fighting the battle to have displays show the cases is long over and was hard fought simply because perveyors were so simple minded. It was as difficult as have a two colored ribbon on a ticker tape. You can remember that that didn't happen except on typewriters.
What is it that slows this process of ganing inference in the mind?
1. Working in an ineffective way that lacks purpose.
2. Being prevented from doing anything because prior beliefs prevent it.
3. Fear that comes from the mind/body self protection system. See Lizard Syndrome.
4. A paralysis that comes from oxygen deprivation and CO 2 surpluses (Bohr Syndrome).
5. Having an orientation to making money following the CW.
6. Using the CW tools to examine the market.
What are the simplest small things that can help overcome the above?
1. Find out that two bars with HH's and HL's causes a long trend by price change.
2. Find out that two bars with LL's and LH's causes a short trend by price change.
3. Notice that volume peaks coincide with price extremes and that occasionally volume shows as leading price. (LTL's)
4.
Notice that volume troughs coincide with price retrace endings and that occasionally volume shows as leading price. (LTL's)
So with this approach underway and succeeeding, when does the mind create the ends of trends?
Also examine why Covel and those he writes about could not get any of this?
Look at the problems people who use PA only encounter. See if you can reason out how to help them and them how to let them accept being trained.
Lastly, look at how others judge trader peformance and find out how they got to use the term "unbelievable" in their vocabulary.
Annotate and use MADA instead of OODA and betting.
This post finishes the partnership contract.
As time passes, the trader learns that the momey takes care of itself.
But it is a good idea to look at the two ingredients for making money.
A x B = C
Quote from jack hershey:
This post finishes the partnership contract.
As time passes, the trader learns that the momey takes care of itself.
But it is a good idea to look at the two ingredients for making money.
A x B = C
A = skill
Quote from jack hershey:
This post finishes the partnership contract.
As time passes, the trader learns that the momey takes care of itself.
But it is a good idea to look at the two ingredients for making money.
A x B = C
Quote from jack hershey:
I had to leave for a while and when I returned to complete the post the post had timed out, so it was lost.
Quote from baro-san:
A = skill
B = confidence
C = success
Jack,I do feel sometimes lack of CO2,when I trade or read something,or concentrate on something.Why is that so?
Quote from pepdegree:
Jack,I do feel sometimes lack of CO2,when I trade or read something,or concentrate on something.Why is that so?
Quote from jack hershey:
It is especially fun to witness big money trading commodities in Chicago (or elsewhere) in real time. They never consider being effective nor efficient; it seems they think they are concentrating on "being right" or something similarly irrational.
There should be related subject in trading regarding breathing technic,as it is very important.
Quote from jack hershey:
It will be fun in the future when web sites begin to appear and people can share their techniques in real time.
Jasck, you either have to cease your time by the computer,or start to drink the wine,the new wine dying on the vine.;)
Quote from TIKITRADER:
Here you go.... The sharing can begin now
Break out the crayolas and start, everyone can jump in
Thanks Multicharts
https://www.tradingview.com/
lol .... i always wanted to be in crayola 101
wonder if there is going to be any hot girls in this class ?
Quote from ammo:
as usual,another thread trashed by bashers for the last several pages,do you guys add anything ,is the world already bad enough...bitching and moaning ..endlessly
__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?
Bud Fox
Wall Street
Im shocked that no one tried to ding Jack on the 3x daily range again.
Look, Jack teaches one how to read the market in layers, but to really enjoy the cake, each layer has to be built upon.
Some will say, JH should own the world. Let me tell you that a point comes when there is no point. When you can make money anytime you want, the scarcity of money goes away, and so does the desire hoard it.
Most will not get what I just posted, but a few will. To those few, pay it forward.
Well said
Quote from RCG Trader:
When you can make money anytime you want, the scarcity of money goes away, and so does the desire hoard it.
Quote from R. Raskolnikov:
Well said
There are a lot of weird people in this world, and apparently some of them are very angry too
Quote from RCG Trader:
Why else would they attack someone who sells nothing? Why would they be so violent in those attacks? They say it is to save the newbies, but I don't recall any newbie I know asking to be saved. Strange stuff my friend, very strange stuff.
I did that ages ago, WAY before I ever heard of Hershey. But thank you for your concern. I have noted it and added it to my files.
--------END COMMUNICATION------------
Quote from mindovermutter:
if you'd expended half the energy designing your own methodology
Decipering Jack Hershey
About two years ago I asked Jack a simple question and received a very cryptic response. It took me a while to understand what he was trying to convey - I call the system Canoe (you will figure this out if you look at prior post).
The outcome was surprising, the system has been running untouched for the past 7 quarters (trading the e-mini S&P) and has shown a profit every quarter (past performance is no indication of future results - in other words I am still waiting for the system to fail - frankly it would be nice to have a failure - at least a small one)
The return is lower then I expect, but 60% annualized net (all fees) is not shabby (actually the return is a higher - but this appears to be what its is averaging out at (sure as hell, as soon as I post this reply the system will go south on me))
Jack has claimed that he can make $150k per contract per year - I find this extremely unlikely - the best I have achieved (play money) is $90K (all fees) - I am shooting for less however $20k per year per contract.
,...G
Jack
@mindovermutter
Not Lying - but believe what you want.
,...adious!
" I realized that 3 x ATR is in fact based on compounding contracts with each successful swing you catch.."
What kind of bull caca is that
3-6ÀTR has nothing to do with compounding.3-6 daily ATR is 3-6 daily ATR because is just 36 daily ATR
Jack
@mindovermutter
Truthfully 'Mind Over Mutter' - I don't think Jack actually has a system. I don't believe that anyone that has attempted to follow Jack's methodology (what ever it may be) has or ever will profit.
What I was able to distill from Jacks postings has nothing to do with his system (???) - it has everything to do with how to look at and interpret the market - something that Jack seems to get (his use of fractals is intriguing).
I use a simple Price Equilibrium Curve (Simple Moving Average) to anticipate price fluctuations around the curve - and I also have to decipher an inordinate amount of real time trade data.
I have two models - one completely automated (the 60% return model) and a semi automated (discretionary) system that I use for scalping (200% return model)
As far as the details of my system - I seriously doubt it would do you or anyone else here any good - simply because it would be difficult for anyone to replicate unless you had the same desktop trading app that I have.
As far as Jack's disciples - Good Luck!
,...G
mindovermutter, who are you in the family pic? The left one?
Quote from mindovermutter:
Quote from jack hershey:
A is compounding
B is applying the differentiated mind.
Their product, C, is the wealth you build.
Inital capital cannot be anything but smallest. for commodities it is 1 contract. For other intruments it is one round lot applied to four streams of capital. Cpompounding the profits is the most powerful tool.
To make 60K a year you earn 5,000 a month which is 250 dollars a day.
Divide the 1 contract point value into 250 and you see this is a portion of the ATR.
To see what is possible then use 3x to 6x the ATR to get the annual income with one contract.
For a no slippage partial fill regime use 250 contracts to do calculations on compounding.
What slows compounding down is giving money to others for problem solving. there is no limit to this opportunity.
the objective is to move from one intial contract to 250 contracts.
Component B is how you get to a multiple of ATR by beginning with a fraction of ATR.
Lets look at both sides of the coin for component B.
0perating effectively and efficiently has requirements.
When you discover the the identiy of a trend end and a trend beginning, you are in the final stretch of becoming expert. This is the Failure To Traverse (FTT) from right to left.
By then you know when H1 and H2 are used and you know dominant and non dominant moves.
You know that a cycle is two moves and a tend is three moves and you KNOW they are on different adjacent fractals.
You are very far away from using rule sets to trade; you use your mind to read the market instead by incorporating nonstationarity windows, OOE, WMCN and WWT.
At some point, you change from FTT to FTT trading to point to point trading.
You complete the transition from 1 contract to 250 contracts.
Your bootcamp days were just like in the military. your weapon is the fully differentiated mind and ammo is in the form of FTT's and then annotated points.
You team with the market and do your part and not the market's part. you have MADA and NOT OODA and betting.
Monitoring gives you an information set. It automatically, one-on-one matches with the analysis finite set. You decide to hold or reverse. You take timely action to carve the turns.
The non secret ingredient is the time you have to log each and every event in the passing of RTH's.
It takes about 5 or 6 rows perbar of logging. Note the countdown from 300 seconds to 0 seconds. All trades are within bars. Each column has a glossary which is defined in binary terms. The binary terms are vectors in terms of the RTL and LTL.
There is no probability and certainty in its place, no noise and precition to the tick in its place and no anomalies (all it orderly and interlocking).
Nobody can demonstrate that Hershey's method doesn't work. They just show they can't get it.
Quote from Albert Cibiades:
This kind of discourse about trading does the neophyte trader a huge disservice. The time a neophyte might take to try to understand the quoted passage is time that he fails to devote to finding his own way. Trading is a very personal endeavor. No one can tell you how you should trade. You must find your unique way on your own. Once you find that way, it is so simple that you can write it down on the sticky side of a postage stamp. Complex strategies like that quoted indicate either some sinister ulterior motive or a fatal lack of understanding of trading reality.
Quote from baro-san:
Nobody can demonstrate that Hershey's method doesn't work. They just show they can't get it.
Quote from GordonTheGekko:
Some detail posts from someone whose been on the board supposedly for less than four weeks?
Quote from RCG Trader:
Jack writes in a way that requires more than an 8th grade reading level, which is where most Americans read at. So his posts have a sort of self selecting nature about them.
People do not like to feel stupid, so they lash out at Jack.
Has Jack or anybody else done an updated version of the chart that shows volume distribution during a day and volatility related to volume based on recent data?
I mean this one:
Quote from Albert Cibiades:
That is not the issue. The issue is that writing about trading doesn't require more than an eighth grade reading level. Nonsense cloaked in lofty language is still nonsense.
Quote from Mushroom:
Has Jack or anybody else done an updated version of the chart that shows volume distribution during a day and volatility related to volume based on recent data?
Quote from RCG Trader:
Over at TL, Spyder posted that this chart is based on a 20 day volume analysis of the ES, which is then divided by ten. I view it as more of a guideline than something hard set.
Quote from Mushroom:
Has Jack or anybody else done an updated version of the chart that shows volume distribution during a day and volatility related to volume based on recent data?
Quote from DB_sezwhat:
Ask and you shall receive.
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...073#post1829073
Quote from Albert Cibiades:
...Nonsense cloaked in lofty language is still nonsense.
Quote from RCG Trader:
Can you prove that this is nonsense?
Perhaps this is an opinion of yours, no?
Quote from Albert Cibiades:
Pick a clearcut unequivocal quantitative statement by Jack that you believe to be true, and I will be happy to oblige. It will be harder for you to find such than for me to demolish it.
Quote from Albert Cibiades:
Pick a clearcut unequivocal quantitative statement by Jack that you believe to be true, and I will be happy to oblige. It will be harder for you to find such than for me to demolish it.
Quote from DB_sezwhat:
I'm not sure, but I think Sierra Charts does it the best. rainman2(great guy
Quote from jack hershey:
If the volume is peaking at less than the max volume from pt.1 to pt.2 and the volume difference going from the minimum trough at pt.3, then the trading fractal has also completed its pattern concurrently with the nested faster fractal.
Quote from RCG Trader:
Volume leads price.
Demolish this for me.
Quote from DB_sezwhat:
Whats so difficult to understand?
Quote from Albert Cibiades:
Gladly. First of all, that is not a complete statement of Jack's PV theory, and I do mean theory. It is an optical delusion attendant to the selection of a chart period of five minutes, and resultant from the blurring therein. The truth is abundantly clear on shorter time scales such as one second or tick. Volume responds to price changes. "Let him who has eyes to see, see."
With all due respect: our conscious choices are determined and limited by our intellect.
Quote from Albert Cibiades:
... Thus is a typical Jack totally qualitative statement which has no practical use. What determines "pt.1?" How much is "less than?" What is "max?" The assertion is grammatically sound, but not convertible to a trade decision in practice.
Quote from Albert Cibiades:
Thius is a typical Jack totally qualitative statement which has no practical use. What determines "pt.1?" How much is "less than?" What is "max?" The assertion is grammatically sound, but not convertible to a trade decision in practice.
Jack's method is pretty easy to figure out if you have a little experience and can get through the unnecessary complexity of his language.
It's basically band trading in a superposition of higher order bands (otherwise known as a fractal) with a lot of guessing based on volume, stochastics, and your own mood swingz.
Quote from jack hershey:
How to differentiate the mind fully in the parametric system of the market's offering.
The hypotheses set forth the Vand P relationship over events. The parametric measures are four gerunds ('ing's). For a paradigm to work all Hypotheses must be "in kind".
Markets turn out to be cyclic; therefore two opposite trends determine a cycle. This announces the fractal nature of the markets and how fractal interlock. A parallelogram (or trapezoid) is the nonstationarity based container. Opposite sides are parallel.
The gerunds dictate the Parametric Measures as ratios of variables. I use a denominator of 1 which stands for one event. The numerators are for the IF'S and for the THEN's. Volume leads price.
HOW to build the mind is a process of creating long term memory for two sets that have a one to one corrspondence.
There is elasticity in the container and it is caused by two things: the units of measure of volume and price. Each one is a non continuous function.
This dictates the mathematics of the market operation. It is an algebra and the base is two. Thus, form the 1840's the mathematics became available. Boolean Algebra has many applications.
Use some ticks to make some bars. Use some instrument units to make some volume bars.
The first task is to ID all the identifiable constructs and combinations of these variables and to deduce the Hypothsis Set that comes from the relation of the two variables. In the language of Science and Mathematics, these are called Cases.
Your mind has to have these cases in long term memory. So discover them; prove they are the set; and arrange them in a continuum.
You have finite sets, and the elements are complete and the elements have an order of events and they form a simple container which cycles and which in terms of fractals are interlocking in a specific unchanging ratio.
This is knowledge and the amount of knowledge for a system is very small and very complete.
Before the PC and when the world began to use electricity, Market information was transmitted over wires and a series of events was made public to all that were equipped. When I canoed from Whitehorse to Dawson, I got to see the wires along the rivers and the battery operated relay stations along the way. I collected broken battery parts and tin cans as souveniers.
From the ticker tapes of the past, the HS and PM came about. Nothing has changed.
The HS and the Cases interrelate and complete the picture of building the mind. I call it "Putting the Pieces Together". This is how "tape reading" turns out to work.
All you do is use binary switches in the form of vectors to make money. There is no probability when it comes the the setting of a switch.
Two Cases of the market make money and all ther cases are squished to have the two cases that make m0oney. You have all the pieces and as they form you squish them into the "long" or the "short" case.
When a squishable case straddles a "right" boundary you decelerate the money velocity of the RTL by geometrically fanning the RTL. When the price exceds the LTL, you accelerate the boundary by redrawing the new steeper container.
So now you have your training encompassed and you use a display to show three interlocking levels of the market containers.
The schema for fully differentiating the mind, to read the market, is to drill on annotating a display which shows the cases as boxes. Fighting the battle to have displays show the cases is long over and was hard fought simply because perveyors were so simple minded. It was as difficult as have a two colored ribbon on a ticker tape. You can remember that that didn't happen except on typewriters.
What is it that slows this process of ganing inference in the mind?
1. Working in an ineffective way that lacks purpose.
2. Being prevented from doing anything because prior beliefs prevent it.
3. Fear that comes from the mind/body self protection system. See Lizard Syndrome.
4. A paralysis that comes from oxygen deprivation and CO 2 surpluses (Bohr Syndrome).
5. Having an orientation to making money following the CW.
6. Using the CW tools to examine the market.
What are the simplest small things that can help overcome the above?
1. Find out that two bars with HH's and HL's causes a long trend by price change.
2. Find out that two bars with LL's and LH's causes a short trend by price change.
3. Notice that volume peaks coincide with price extremes and that occasionally volume shows as leading price. (LTL's)
4. Notice that volume troughs coincide with price retrace endings and that occasionally volume shows as leading price. (LTL's)
So with this approach underway and succeeeding, when does the mind create the ends of trends?
Also examine why Covel and those he writes about could not get any of this?
__________________
Trend Following Trading
Covel Books: Trend Commandments, The Little Book of Trading, The Complete TurtleTrader & Trend Following
Trend Following Documentary Film: Broke: The New American Dream | Covel Podcast Episodes
Quote from Trend Following:
When I started looking at trend following I had public track records of many different traders to examine. That was my start. You could easily analyze month by month audited track records often going back decades. I wasn't left to just trust the words of assorted traders, I could compare their words against track records. It was a great learning lesson.
Along those lines, can anyone provide one public track record that correlates with the gibberish Hershey spews? If we get past one, is there a second? Perhaps, that is a tad too direct. Excuse me if I don't demonstrate adequate Kool-aid drinking respect.
__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?
Bud Fox
Wall Street
Quote from Albert Cibiades:
Gladly. First of all, that is not a complete statement of Jack's PV theory, and I do mean theory. It is an optical delusion attendant to the selection of a chart period of five minutes, and resultant from the blurring therein. The truth is abundantly clear on shorter time scales such as one second or tick. Volume responds to price changes. "Let him who has eyes to see, see."
__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?
Bud Fox
Wall Street
Quote from Trend Following:
When I started looking at trend following I had public track records of many different traders to examine. That was my start. You could easily analyze month by month audited track records often going back decades. I wasn't left to just trust the words of assorted traders, I could compare their words against track records. It was a great learning lesson.
Along those lines, can anyone provide one public track record that correlates with the gibberish Hershey spews? If we get past one, is there a second? Perhaps, that is a tad too direct. Excuse me if I don't demonstrate adequate Kool-aid drinking respect.
Quote from baro-san:
With all due respect: our conscious choices are determined and limited by our intellect.
Quote from RCG Trader:
Well, if someone wants a solid method handed to them on a platter, Jack does do this, but he qualifies it by requiring the reader get a baseline education to be able to determine what he is saying.
W D Gann did this also. If you were not a Mason, pass Gann up, you will not be able to benefit.
__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?
Bud Fox
Wall Street
Incredible dedication! You should look for a worthier cause.
Quote from mindovermutter:
...
This guy automates channels and tapes based on JH in Excel.
If I remember he used to post to Jack here on ET
http://exceltrader.net/
http://exceltrader.net/wp-content/uploads/SP/temp.gif
This thread is like reading the Enquirer at the Checkout counter...
It never makes it home with you but you have to take a peek for kicks.
Quote from Albert Cibiades:
That is not the issue. The issue is that writing about trading doesn't require more than an eighth grade reading level. Nonsense cloaked in lofty language is still nonsense.
Quote from d08:
+1
That's actually the followers' escape route, "you're too stupid and lazy, you don't understand what kind of a genius he is". Naturally it's all too complicated to backtest, rules and more rules followed by exceptions and even more exceptions.
Genius lies in simplicity.
Quote from bwolinsky:
This is utter gibberish! Just gibberish! Do you have the program?
I want to see your chart. Be sure you've marked your entries and please show me how the price is breaking below its pv.
Quote from Albert Cibiades:
Let us not play Jack's game. Let us instead think. I am looking at a premarket one-second chart which is running strategies that work during the regular session. Often they also work premarket. Price is moving by several points on invisible volume. One contract this second, five contracts the next tick, all over the place, no volume pattern. The real question is not "what leads what?", but "is volume relevant at all?" If price can move on no volume, who gives a shit about volume? Similarly, volume can be huge with no price move, as in the last minutes before the close.
Quote from Mushroom:
So you look at a chart for a couple of seconds and the results of your deep analysing is that volume is useless?
I looked at a chart for a couple of seconds too, and I see that price sometimes moves in one direction, than it suddenly changes direction. Maybe price is useless too?
Quote from Mushroom:
So you look at a chart for a couple of seconds and the results of your deep analysing is that volume is useless?
I looked at a chart for a couple of seconds too, and I see that price sometimes moves in one direction, than it suddenly changes direction. Maybe price is useless too?
Quote from Mushroom:
So you look at a chart for a couple of seconds and the results of your deep analysing is that volume is useless?
I looked at a chart for a couple of seconds too, and I see that price sometimes moves in one direction, than it suddenly changes direction. Maybe price is useless too?
Quote from Albert Cibiades:
I watch a one second chart all day. I know intimately how unrelated price and volume can be.
Quote from Mushroom:
If volatility was an exact expression of volume, then why should you look at volume? You could just look at a price.
Jack's fixation on volume simply proves that he doesn't understand price action. If he did, he wouldn't need to draw those cretinous channels, and would instead be teaching the faithful about support and resistance.
Is it true Jack's a genius....??!!
__________________
Go Chicago Bulls
You can make it to the Hall of Fame getting base hits or home runs... but you gotta protect the plate!
Patient traders obtain better prices than impatient traders do because they are willing to search longer and harder to arrange their trades at favorable terms. Impatient traders pay for the privilege of trading when they want to trade... Larry Harris, Trading & Exchanges.
...it was never my thinking that made the big money for me. It was always my sitting. Got that? My sitting tight! I've known many men who were right at exactly the right time, and began buying or selling stocks when prices were at the very level which should have showed the greatest profit... their experience matched mine... they made no real money. Men who can be right and sit tight are uncommon... but it is only after a stock operator has firmly grasped this that he can make big money. The market does not beat them they beat themselves because though they have brains they cannot sit tight! Reminiscences (V)
Yes.
Quote from iceman1:
Is it true Jack's a genius....??!!
Here's a trade today where I exited solely based on volume being too low. If it wasn't for volume it would have been a small loss instead of a small profit, cause I would have stayed in the trade longer.
Could give lots of examples where it has helped me, others prob can do. Don't understand how you can just disregard volume.
Quote from Mushroom:
Here's a trade today where I exited solely based on volume being too low. If it wasn't for volume it would have been a small loss instead of a small profit, cause I would have stayed in the trade longer.
Could give lots of examples where it has helped me, others prob can do. Don't understand how you can just disregard volume.
the volume usually precedes a move and takes a few minutes,you may or may not see it on a chart that updates every second,or the lag times may be too erratic,don't know,but when i see a spike on the 30 min,i try to find the price it happened by reducing to a 3 min or 5,or 1 to find the fat spot
Quote from Mushroom:
Here's a trade today where I exited solely based on volume being too low. If it wasn't for volume it would have been a small loss instead of a small profit, cause I would have stayed in the trade longer.
Could give lots of examples where it has helped me, others prob can do. Don't understand how you can just disregard volume.
Quote from Albert Cibiades:
I don't know dip about ES, but my volume rules said that the likelihood of there being a trade in NQ around 7:35CT was poor, despite there being a double tap of a Dow retrace. So you used volume to get out, whereas I would have used volume not to get in. Thanks for sharing that trade. Nice example of not relying on a trendline bounce. Plus there were other S/R thingies transpiring there not encompassed in The World According to Jack.
Quote from Mushroom:
So you use volume, and you make money? That's great, who cares who is right or wrong.
Used to share apartment with a poker pro, learnt you can't copy someone elses style even if you watch someone who's an expert for countless of hours and understand the thought process behind what he's doing. You have to take some bits and pieces that fits you and develope your own style.
Quote from Mushroom:
Here's a trade today where I exited solely based on volume being too low. If it wasn't for volume it would have been a small loss instead of a small profit, cause I would have stayed in the trade longer.
Could give lots of examples where it has helped me, others prob can do. Don't understand how you can just disregard volume.
__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?
Bud Fox
Wall Street
Quote from Albert Cibiades:
I don't know dip about ES, but my volume rules said that the likelihood of there being a trade in NQ around 7:35CT was poor, despite there being a double tap of a Dow retrace. So you used volume to get out, whereas I would have used volume not to get in. Thanks for sharing that trade. Nice example of not relying on a trendline bounce. Plus there were other S/R thingies transpiring there not encompassed in The World According to Jack.
Quote from bwolinsky:
Thank you for another hindsight trade.
ignore bwol,he's in the midst of disproving himself to himself,you know,break it down,analyze the weaknesses and then rebuild a better engine,doesn't know squat about trading,just theories and math,how to fool himself, ego,all that go from a caterpillar to a butterfly stuff,still in the cocoon,his opinion is invalid even to him
Quote from Mushroom:
I've already clearly stated that I'm a noob and practising in a simulator, so why would I try to impress? If I did I wouldn't show a 2 point winner, since my targets are usually way bigger.
I was just showing a trade where I was wrong entering but right exiting.
Quote from nkhoi:
by Jove! is it really you where is everybody? bring them back.
Quote from ammo:
the volume usually precedes a move and takes a few minutes,you may or may not see it on a chart that updates every second,or the lag times may be too erratic,don't know,but when i see a spike on the 30 min,i try to find the price it happened by reducing to a 3 min or 5,or 1 to find the fat spot
Quote from Albert Cibiades:
"If the volume is peaking at less than the max volume from pt.1 to pt.2 and the volume difference going from the minimum trough at pt.3, then the trading fractal has also completed its pattern concurrently with the nested faster fractal."
Thius is a typical Jack totally qualitative statement which has no practical use. What determines "pt.1?" How much is "less than?" What is "max?" The assertion is grammatically sound, but not convertible to a trade decision in practice.
Back to you after the close. I copied the post, so you can now delete it in good conscience.
Odd, that if I were to substitute into your post my reality-based beliefs for your theoretical ones, I could be talking to you, or you to yourself, or both.
“The subject of your quote is the new point 1 that is arriving. Obviously it is a good idea to be able to measure the market when this event is arriviing from the future as the future comes into the present.”
The points of which you write are not “arriving from the future.” They are quite static S/R levels than can be seen many bars ahead depending on the chart peiod.
“The Pattern is being discussed; so have it at hand so you can refer to it if your mind has not digested it and turned it into long term memory known as inference. People who have built their minds, have the pattern in mind and the parts of the pattern come to consiousness as they "read" the market" which is different than reading what I instruct you to be able to do.”
There is no “pattern.” But there are logical arithmetical and mathemagical S/R levels. No “patterns” evolve. Volume discovery merely takes price to those levels here it is known that volume will appear. As to inference, I infer nothing. Inference is Aristotelian. I observe unfettered by theories. I am Galileo. But you are correct that reading the market is different from being the market.
“Since you can't, you get to read, yet one more time during one more year, what you have passively not grasped for several years, year after year.”
My inability to grasp your contorted market view is less astonishing than your own ability to learn from me given massive hints.
“The practical use of this statement is to have the ability to call the end of a hold to make the maximum profit the market is offering in a segment of price, volume movement. All fractals perform identically. Give yourself permission to consider this practical use. It is more important than the practical use of anything else and, as a matter of fact, you are chosing to use it to quote me and show the extent of your mind's development. We know where you are and you are going to find out what more is possible to gain from your unused potential.”
Fractals are a figment of your fertile, febrile imagination. The reality is that S/R works on the one-second level, on the one-minute level, on the daily level, and higher. What you see as fractals is merely the unfolding of the volume discovery price process.
“The snippet on your viewing platform you have not mentioned is PRV; I believe it is still not added to your platform. There is no earthly rational reason for not adding PRV to any platform. Find out what irrational basis you have for this neglect. Anyone can use it on any trading strategy as a real aid.”
PRV also is imaginary, an artifact of your slowed-down charting. It is nowhere to be seen at the market’s natural pace.
“PRV also closes the discussion of volume leading price. Its partner, PRP has never been mentioned before in public.”
Do tell of PRP. What better foil can you have than me for a new theory? Hmmbiliate me, and all ET will applaud.
“This statement refers to a specific time in the Pattern. Mark it on a print of the pattern.
"If the volume is peaking at less than the max volume from pt.1 to pt.2 and the volume difference going from the minimum trough at pt.3, then the trading fractal has also completed its pattern concurrently with the nested faster fractal.".”
If I am correctly visualizing your delusion, what I see is one-second S/R occurring near one-minute or higher S/R. Powerful mojo, but not magic.
“PRV tells you, bar after bar, that from point 3 you are increasing in volume from the trough @ point 3. You are told this at the beginning of each five minute bar.
Also a snippet you have coded on volume places an arrow on the top of the volume bar WHEN the real volume (during the bar) exceeds the prior volume. This is when beginners stop holding their collective breaths.
since you are tracking by annotating the next faster ractal in two places, you get to see this volume "carried" on the slower than trading fractal volume as well. It is a summation of three adjacent fractals.”
Again coincidence of S/R on different time frames. It is always nice in the Platonian sense to be able to distinguish the shadows on the cave wall from reality. No need to erect a complex theory around it. It would suffice to say "If you see a volume pimple, squeeze it."
“You have an absolute comparision too.
]"If the volume is peaking at less than the max volume from pt.1 to pt.2 and the volume difference going from the minimum trough at pt.3, then the trading fractal has also completed its pattern concurrently with the nested faster fractal."
At that referenced event, you put in a book market on price so begin to book mark thsi volume accordingly.
As an analyst, say working for big money accounts, you are monitiring two aspects of volume bar by bar: valocity and its scalor magnitude. for each you have a reference. You are NOT just a casual reader of my works; you make money using your mind as well.’’
I will give you this much: volume velocity is useful, Too bad you don't actually calculate it.
“All trends end after pont 3. Reread the statement it is a quantitative statement as a matter of fact. It is concise, clear and cerips in the words of E. B White. (See "Elements of Style")”
An unnecessary and oft-violated assertion. Be careful about making simple over-generalizations easily disproved.
“throughout the statement there is being made a very bold and succinct statement. Volume leads price and there are tools available to "read" the market using a fully differentiated mind. Expert reading in third grade comes from reading drills, having a vocabulary and knowing how sentences express complete thoughts. You have gained mind differentiation for reading through your third grade experience.”
I skipped third grade and went straight to junior high.
“Now you are learning a definition of point 1 where trades end and begin. the terms used in the definition are also more general and more widely used words in the system of trading and the rigid interlocking of fractals.
If you see volume increasing (See PEP HS) from point 3 to point 1 (where the trends ends), you also know he faster fractal is going through piont1, 2 and 3 andcoming to its ending @ point 1. The slower than trading fractal is going from one point to another, more slowly.
This tight integration is there to see and read, IF and ONLY IF, you mind has the built differntiation which contains the pieces of inference which autoatically pop up into consciousness.
The pattern completes at the new point 1 when you see the PRV slacks off and the momentum of price, sometime during this 5 minute period, arrives at the exteme of the trend.”
Make sure you know exactly what’s in a given volume. Not all of it is momentous.
“The slack off of volume precedes the extreme max of the price during this 300 second interval. It is smooth and you can trade about 5 times the market capacity as partial fills duing this climaxing period.
QED
Why didn't Covel get any of this? Those he interviewed didn't know it either. He was dealing with the CW crowd only. You are like these people and you talk like them too.
The pattern is a different world. Winchester should write a book like "Atlantic" about it. Our we should read an adventure of the lady with the dragon tatoo discovering the not so obvious relationship of volume and price. All of PEP and it applications are a paradigm shift in market trading. It is explained that I am arcane. Well ,of course, I started trading before arcane did.”
Your literary reference is apt. Perusing the SciFi shelves recently, I saw the title “The Dragon with the Girl Tattoo.” That’s you and me. Dragon and tattoo. Once I had a bumper sticker on my car: “Jeffrey Dahmer says “Tattoos Taste Great!””
“I hope you can read this as a person skilled in reading a language. But you have to understand that your mind, as is Covel's, a blank canvas, with regard to the language of market's operation. Tah is the way it is for most people.
Neuroplasticity explains our differences. The mind cannot grow and construct a non system. That is yours and Covel's mutual problem. I, instead, worked in a scientific deductive way to build a system that is parallel to the market's operation. My system is found in a lot of people's minds these days since they adopted part or all of what the market does by building their minds.”
Neuroplasticity I understand. My brain is so springy from early-onset that you could squeeze irt like a sponge. But it does absorb alcohol so much better now.
“Slowly as time passes people adopt beliefs through their habits. Unfortunately, for some people they do not always abide by critical thinking (yours and Covel's cases).
So now it is too late for each of you. neither of you can think critically any more. That time passed for you and for about 90% of people who lean failure instead.
One one the hardest lessons I was taught was to not care if people would not learn via critcal thinking. You are just another example; thats all.
We provide tools like arrows on volume and PRV and a dozen other leading indicators of price. they are trnslated into all the languages of the various platforms. You did not elect to use them so you got left behind by your choice. So you can't read and understand what I write. No one cares.”
I take great pride in not thinking. In its absence I substitute attentive critical observation. But I could explain what I do in twenty third-grade words or less. And remember, Dragon, the Tattoo knows NLP at least as well as you do. Did you know that tattoos itch?
"Since you are tracking by annotating the next faster ractal in two places, you get to see this volume "carried" on the slower than trading fractal volume as well. It is a summation of three adjacent fractals."
Jack,can there be more then three adjacent fractals?Is there any practical purpose for that?Also,there are a lot of failed rtl's BOes on the finest.Does the "D" member on the finest fractal come from the volume summation of the trading and slower fractals combined?
Thx
Quote from jack hershey:
"If the volume is peaking at less than the max volume from pt.1 to pt.2 and the volume difference going from the minimum trough at pt.3, then the trading fractal has also completed its pattern concurrently with the nested faster fractal.".
PRP -
Ok, I have a real good guess what it is Jack but how on earth do you know where to go with it ???
what direction ???
Quote from jack hershey:
The subject of your quote is the new point 1 that is arriving. Obviously it is a good idea to be able to measure the market when this event is arriviing from the future as the future comes into the present.
The Pattern is being discussed; so have it at hand so you can refer to it if your mind has not digested it and turned it into long term memory known as inference. People who have built their minds, have the pattern in mind and the parts of the pattern come to consiousness as they "read" the market" which is different than reading what I instruct you to be able to do.
Since you can't, you get to read, yet one more time during one more year, what you have passively not grasped for several years, year after year.
The practical use of this statement is to have the ability to call the end of a hold to make the maximum profit the market is offering in a segment of price, volume movement. All fractals perform identically. Give yourself permission to consider this practical use. It is more important than the practical use of anything else and, as a matter of fact, you are chosing to use it to quote me and show the extent of your mind's development. We know where you are and you are going to find out what more is possible to gain from your unused potential.
The snippet on your viewing platform you have not mentioned is PRV; I believe it is still not added to your platform. There is no earthly rational reason for not adding PRV to any platform. Find out what irrational basis you have for this neglect. Anyone can use it on any trading strategy as a real aid.
PRV also closes the discussion of volume leading price. Its partner, PRP has never been mentioned before in public.
This statement refers to a specific time in the Pattern. Mark it on a print of the pattern.
"If the volume is peaking at less than the max volume from pt.1 to pt.2 and the volume difference going from the minimum trough at pt.3, then the trading fractal has also completed its pattern concurrently with the nested faster fractal.".
PRV tells you, bar after bar, that from point 3 you are increasing in volume from the trough @ point 3. You are told this at the beginning of each five minute bar.
Also a snippet you have coded on volume places an arrow on the top of the volume bar WHEN the real volume (during the bar) exceeds the prior volume. This is when beginners stop holding their collective breaths.
since you are tracking by annotating the next faster ractal in two places, you get to see this volume "carried" on the slower than trading fractal volume as well. It is a summation of three adjacent fractals.
You have an absolute comparision too.
]"If the volume is peaking at less than the max volume from pt.1 to pt.2 and the volume difference going from the minimum trough at pt.3, then the trading fractal has also completed its pattern concurrently with the nested faster fractal."
At that referenced event, you put in a book market on price so begin to book mark thsi volume accordingly.
As an analyst, say working for big money accounts, you are monitiring two aspects of volume bar by bar: valocity and its scalor magnitude. for each you have a reference. You are NOT just a casual reader of my works; you make money using your mind as well.
All trends end after pont 3. Reread the statement it is a quantitative statement as a matter of fact. It is concise, clear and cerips in the words of E. B White. (See "Elements of Style")
throughout the statement there is being made a very bold and succinct statement. Volume leads price and there are tools available to "read" the market using a fully differentiated mind. Expert reading in third grade comes from reading drills, having a vocabulary and knowing how sentences express complete thoughts. You have gained mind differentiation for reading through your third grade experience.
Now you are learning a definition of point 1 where trades end and begin. the terms used in the definition are also more general and more widely used words in the system of trading and the rigid interlocking of fractals.
If you see volume increasing (See PEP HS) from point 3 to point 1 (where the trends ends), you also know he faster fractal is going through piont1, 2 and 3 andcoming to its ending @ point 1. The slower than trading fractal is going from one point to another, more slowly.
This tight integration is there to see and read, IF and ONLY IF, you mind has the built differntiation which contains the pieces of inference which autoatically pop up into consciousness.
The pattern completes at the new point 1 when you see the PRV slacks off and the momentum of price, sometime during this 5 minute period, arrives at the exteme of the trend.
The slack off of volume precedes the extreme max of the price during this 300 second interval. It is smooth and you can trade about 5 times the market capacity as partial fills duing this climaxing period.
QED
Why didn't Covel get any of this? Those he interviewed didn't know it either. He was dealing with the CW crowd only. You are like these people and you talk like them too.
The pattern is a different world. Winchester should write a book like "Atlantic" about it. Our we should read an adventure of the lady with the dragon tatoo discovering the not so obvious relationship of volume and price. All of PEP and it applications are a paradigm shift in market trading. It is explained that I am arcane. Well ,of course, I started trading before arcane did.
I hope you can read this as a person skilled in reading a language. But you have to understand that your mind, as is Covel's, a blank canvas, with regard to the language of market's operation. Tah is the way it is for most people.
Neuroplasticity explains our differences. The mind cannot grow and construct a non system. That is yours and Covel's mutual problem. I, instead, worked in a scientific deductive way to build a system that is parallel to the market's operation. My system is found in a lot of people's minds these days since they adopted part or all of what the market does by building their minds.
Slowly as time passes people adopt beliefs through their habits. Unfortunately, for some people they do not always abide by critical thinking (yours and Covel's cases).
So now it is too late for each of you. neither of you can think critically any more. That time passed for you and for about 90% of people who lean failure instead.
One one the hardest lessons I was taught was to not care if people would not learn via critcal thinking. You are just another example; thats all.
We provide tools like arrows on volume and PRV and a dozen other leading indicators of price. they are trnslated into all the languages of the various platforms. You did not elect to use them so you got left behind by your choice. So you can't read and understand what I write. No one cares.
Plagiarism is defined in dictionaries as the "wrongful appropriation," "close imitation," or "purloining and publication" of another author's "language, thoughts, ideas, or expressions," and the representation of them as one's own original work,[1][2] but the notion remains problematic with nebulous boundaries.[3][4][5][6] The modern concept of plagiarism as immoral and originality as an ideal emerged in Europe only in the 18th century, particularly with the Romantic movement, while in the previous centuries authors and artists were encouraged to "copy the masters as closely as possible" and avoid "unnecessary invention."[7][8][9][10][11][12]
The 18th century new morals have been institutionalized and enforced prominently in the sectors of academia and journalism, where plagiarism is now considered academic dishonesty and a breach of journalistic ethics, subject to sanctions like expulsion and other severe career damage. Not so in the arts, which not only have resisted in their long-established tradition of copying as a fundamental practice of the creative process,[12][13][14] but with the boom of the modernist and postmodern movements in the 20th century, this practice has been heightened as the central and representative artistic device.[12][15][16] Plagiarism remains tolerated by 21st century artists.[13][14]
Plagiarism is not a crime per se but is disapproved more on the grounds of moral offence,[7][17] and cases of plagiarism can involve liability for copyright infringement.
Contents
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Quote from Paddler:
Could you please clarify the above phrase in red? Do you mean the accumulated volume from pt.3 to new pt.1? If so, do you compare it to the accumulated volume from BO to pt.2?
your suggestion of "acumulated is well taken, howerer (chuckle), please just compare bars as a velocity study (increasing velocity) from pt 3 to point 1 (trough to peak in a container).
With all due respect, I believe that the increasing volume after pt.3 could be peaking at HIGHER THAN the max volume from pt.1 to pt.2 for trading fractal to complete its pattern concurrently with its nested faster fractal. My belief is based on the context that the new pt.1 does not reach the trading fractal's LTL and the trading fractal is a dominant move inside a slower fractal.
Extremely incisive. Congrats. It is important to consider "all things being equal". And, then there is the additional latitude required when setting world's records. I like the fact that you deal with the contextual giving regard to the slower fractal.
Wouldn't it be fun to slave over "writing the book once and for all"? It would be, so congrats.
In terms of trading, what I said is not important if one knows how to apply PRV and other fine tools.
It is always so delightful to be able to use the modern computer to sort out the thoughts of the significant and the insignificant peoples who are at play actively (rigorous or flying high with artisitically achieved rights to play).
We do get to have the best office windows, after all
Thank you for the sharing of knowledge.
Surely you aren't accusing Murphy of plagiarizing Hershey?
Quote from pepdegree:
"Since you are tracking by annotating the next faster ractal in two places, you get to see this volume "carried" on the slower than trading fractal volume as well. It is a summation of three adjacent fractals."
Jack,can there be more then three adjacent fractals?Is there any practical purpose for that?Also,there are a lot of failed rtl's BOes on the finest.Does the "D" member on the finest fractal come from the volume summation of the trading and slower fractals combined?
Thx
Quote from v34rm:
Peaking meaking shmeaking volume.....just show the statement ....hahahaha
Quote from Joe Doaks:
Surely you aren't accusing Murphy of plagiarizing Hershey?
Quote from v34rm:
Plagiarism is defined in dictionaries as the "wrongful appropriation," "close imitation," or "purloining and publication" of another author's "language, thoughts, ideas, or expressions," and the representation of them as one's own original work,[1][2] but the notion remains problematic with nebulous boundaries.[3][4][5][6] The modern concept of plagiarism as immoral and originality as an ideal emerged in Europe only in the 18th century, particularly with the Romantic movement, while in the previous centuries authors and artists were encouraged to "copy the masters as closely as possible" and avoid "unnecessary invention."[7][8][9][10][11][12]
The 18th century new morals have been institutionalized and enforced prominently in the sectors of academia and journalism, where plagiarism is now considered academic dishonesty and a breach of journalistic ethics, subject to sanctions like expulsion and other severe career damage. Not so in the arts, which not only have resisted in their long-established tradition of copying as a fundamental practice of the creative process,[12][13][14] but with the boom of the modernist and postmodern movements in the 20th century, this practice has been heightened as the central and representative artistic device.[12][15][16] Plagiarism remains tolerated by 21st century artists.[13][14]
Plagiarism is not a crime per se but is disapproved more on the grounds of moral offence,[7][17] and cases of plagiarism can involve liability for copyright infringement.
Contents
[hide]
My head is about to blow
I was struggling to get my head around what is written about Jack Hershey's method on this thread until I came across the following article:
http://www.tradersnarrative.com/jac...method-971.html
Quote from jack hershey:
Thanks for your previous reply.
Are you on or off the booze and /or women?
i just don't get the constant negativitry towards jack,if you have a system of your own and it works use it,if you cant grasp jacks ignore it,he writes like he writes,walks like he walks, breaths...none of that is going to change,i'm amazed at the tossing of rotten tomatoes this guy gets,some deep message in the human condition beneath it all,do any of the tomato tossers know why they toss or is it a join the crowd ,sheep herd mentality ,thing
Re: My head is about to blow
Quote from DowIndexTrader:
I was struggling to get my head around what is written about Jack Hershey's method on this thread until I came across the following article:
http://www.tradersnarrative.com/jac...method-971.html
Quote from ammo:
i just don't get the constant negativitry towards jack,if you have a system of your own and it works use it,if you cant grasp jacks ignore it,he writes like he writes,walks like he walks, breaths...none of that is going to change,i'm amazed at the tossing of rotten tomatoes this guy gets,some deep message in the human condition beneath it all,do any of the tomato tossers know why they toss or is it a join the crowd ,sheep herd mentality ,thing
Quote from ammo:
i just don't get the constant negativitry towards jack,if you have a system of your own and it works use it,if you cant grasp jacks ignore it,he writes like he writes,walks like he walks, breaths...none of that is going to change,i'm amazed at the tossing of rotten tomatoes this guy gets,some deep message in the human condition beneath it all,do any of the tomato tossers know why they toss or is it a join the crowd ,sheep herd mentality ,thing
seems his threads are a back door into et for all the nutjobs,some guys that dont know bid/ask pile on for the chance to post,there is even one guy in here with an attic full of jack memorabilia,posts his doll,news clippings,national enquirer articles,jack were you in a rock band at one time,maybe they are your old groupies
Two traders whose totally different systems produced identical entries and exits would argue nonetheless about whose system is better.
Al,i'm talking about all the non traders
Quote from ammo:
seems his threads are a back door into et for all the nutjobs,some guys that dont know bid/ask pile on for the chance to post,there is even one guy in here with an attic full of jack memorabilia,posts his doll,news clippings,national enquirer articles,jack were you in a rock band at one time,maybe they are your old groupies
Quote from ammo:
Al,i'm talking about all the non traders
Jack,give yourself a chance and stop spending your time on a BS.Consult the 4 Ashrama(stage),you are in the last one yet.You still have a LOT of time!
Wish you the best!
What do you guys think about days where there's an uptrend in the morning VS days that starts with a downtrend?
It seems to me that when the market drops in the morning it follows a pattern that is easier to trade. It drops until it reverses somewhere between 11 and 12 and then there are often a substantial move in the opposite direction.
Days that starts with an uptrend on the other hand doesn't seem to reverse and move substantially in the opposite direction in the afternoon nearly as often. There's more often drifts, random moves and stuff like that for the rest of the day.
Thinking about this for a month everything I see seems to confirm it, and I've studied old charts too. But maybe it doesn't hold true over time?
Basically my question is - if you wanna trade the channels in a simple way as a beginner, over time, isn't going long after a morning downtrend much more profitable than going short after a morning uptrend?
I'm surprised how many "traders" have enough time to post and argue during RTH.
Quote from Albert Cibiades:
Oh, my! I thought everybody traded here.
Quote from baro-san:
I'm surprised how many "traders" have enough time to post and argue during RTH.
I want to automate my trades,too!Please,Albert disclose your strategy immediately!
Quote from pepdegree:
I want to automate my trades,too!Please,Albert disclose your strategy immediately!
Quote from Albert Cibiades:
I only automate the trade entries and exits. Automating the actual trades would take all the fun out of it. KInd of like screwing. It's OK if fate decides the opportunity, but you want to do the actual work yourself.
Quote from RCG Trader:
That was a good post
Consider it stolen
Quote from TIKITRADER:
PRP -
Ok, I have a real good guess what it is Jack but how on earth do you know where to go with it ???
what direction ???
Quote from jack hershey:
Quote from Paddler:
Could you please clarify the above phrase in red? Do you mean the accumulated volume from pt.3 to new pt.1? If so, do you compare it to the accumulated volume from BO to pt.2?
your suggestion of "acumulated is well taken, howerer (chuckle), please just compare bars as a velocity study (increasing velocity) from pt 3 to point 1 (trough to peak in a container).
Re: Re: Re: Rocket backtest
Quote from jack hershey:
degapping is required.
Also use the third leading indicator Stoch (5, 2, 3) and the signal is @ 50%.
Indicators of two line charts are determined by the relationship of the two lines.
In MACD you will notice two opposite words. A set of six relations results. The six relations follow an order of events.
I posted an attachment for the benefit of a thread that had not learned about indicators and are following a set of CW myths instead. As usual, this interesting thread was closed. LOL...
Quote from jack hershey:
MACD and stochastics are mathematical names. The key words are divergence, convergence and stochastics. They all apply to the relationship of the two lines.
....
How many cases are considered for the two line relationship?
....
So three points in time suffice to show the two lines on each indicator. For each indicator only six alternative triad cases have to be considered when the first element is limited to D or C. always the middle of the triad is NOT D or C.
....
I always found CXD in MACD (the green rectangles in the attachment) and it is a lagging signal. I seldom see CXX, CXC, DXX, DXD and DXC in MACD.
I focus on these 5 triads (CXX, CXC, DXX, DXD and DXC). Am I on the right track?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Rocket backtest
Quote from BenzMercedesSL:
I corrected the mistakes and made some changes. I used 25/75 for Stoc(14,1,3) for entry and Stoc(5,2,3) for exit. The result is improved. Here are the updated rocket criteria:
1. Long when macd(5,13,6) histogram >= 0.4 and stoc(14,1,3) K > 75 and stoc(14,1,3) D > 75 (K or D is crossing 75) and Vol>=Fast Pace
2. Short when macd(5,13,6) histogram <= -0.4 and stoc(14,1,3) K <25 and stoc(14,1,3) D < 25 (K or D is crossing 25) and Vol>=Fast Pace
3. Close long when stoc(5,2,3) K < 75
4. Close short when stoc(5,2,3) K > 25
I used stoc(5,2,3) K crossing 50 as an entry signal, but more losing trades resulted. I am still studying how to apply stoc(5,2,3).
There are 4 cases for the two line relationship (Please see the attachment):
1. Convergence (C)
2. Divergence (D)
3. Crossover (X)
4. Parallel (which rarely happens)
The 6 triad cases (The 1st element is either C or D and the middle element is X) are:
CXX, CXD, CXC, DXX, DXD, DXC
I am still figuring out how these triad cases relates to the order of events. Do these 6 relations refer to B2B2R2B and R2R2B2R?
The full version of the blue post is here:
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...+th#post2923398
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Rocket backtest
Quote from Albert Cibiades:
Hmm. A rocket. Let's see. How would a rocket scientist characterize a rocket? Measure position as a function of time? Derive velocity and acceleration as functions of time? Maybe characterize propellant consumption from telemetry? Process all the data he has with modern DSP filters? Nah! He'd use some fucking seventy year old voodoo formula from the slide rule era!
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Rocket backtest
Quote from RCG Trader:
The rocket is a moniker for beginning Hershey traders who cannot see the market yet. The indicators are there as training wheels.
To make this right down to earth in a language that you can easily understand, a rocket is when you enter a position as price is within 75% of it's 14 bar high and on heavy volume relative to the bar by bar volume of the prior month.
How hard is that?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Rocket backtest
Quote from Albert Cibiades:
Even better! Don't need a slide rule for that! An abacus will do.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Rocket backtest
Quote from RCG Trader:
They have been trading rice in japan for several hundred years young man, a piece of paper and a pencil is really and truly all you need.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Rocket backtest
Quote from Albert Cibiades:
My first day at The Little Red Schoolhouse they gave us chalk and slates.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Rocket backtest
Quote from RCG Trader:
What is funny about your little remark is that they were smarter than you, adjusted for age and grade level.
Young people
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Rocket backtest
Quote from Albert Cibiades:
I refer you to the Dunning-Kruger effect.
Some of the comments about Spyderrader being an incredibly poorly dressed ratty guy, Jack in huge debt, Jack not doing an insurance startup, etc. don't really have validity to them. All I hear is the tax lien thing.
Can someone clarify these?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Rocket backtest
Quote from RCG Trader:
And yet, you failed to refute my earlier assertion.
Some will make money, you will not. Everyone cannot win.
Have a nice day
that nutjob has been following jack around for years, each thread a new alias,sad thing is ,he' a bright guy,just can't get out from under his rock
Quote from GordonTheGekko:
Some of the comments about Spyderrader being an incredibly poorly dressed ratty guy, Jack in huge debt, Jack not doing an insurance startup, etc. don't really have validity to them. All I hear is the tax lien thing.
Can someone clarify these?
A bright guy who is living out Einstein's definition of insanity
Quote from ammo:
that nutjob has been following jack around for years, each thread a new alias,sad thing is ,he' a bright guy,just can't get out from under his rock
most traders have their own system that works,the thing i don't get is why if you could save the one's who don't with trading knowledge, you spend 100% of your time on ET,tearing down jack,it seems if you had 2 choices,1 was smart, the other dumb, you choose dumb 100% of the time,instead of saving them from jack,if you are right about jack,there are another 100 like him, so you are saving 1%,why don't you save them all from goldman sachs,you put up that same worn out record of jack,the doll,his house,tax lien,yada ,yada,yada,..maybe your just trying to get the record for most banned and most alias's on ET,will that be your life's work,legacy
i dont follow jack, i read about 1/3 of his posts and then lose interest ,an attention problem,it' basically channel trading,a guy shining shoes for 50 yrs is going to know more than a guy at it for a year,so there should be some stuff in there worth reading, i did take away some profitable things about volume spikes that i never looked at before,i don't believe your hooey about taxes and such,it's just a mosquito you take out of the box,following jack's posts,it's an obsession,just don't get it,basically in trying to make jack miserable,you annoy everyone,sort of taking a crap on et every other day, most of us go in the bathroom and shut the door, guess that is not your thing,again ,i don't get it
Quote from TIKITRADER:
PRP -
Ok, I have a real good guess what it is Jack but how on earth do you know where to go with it ???
what direction ???
Quote from TIKITRADER:
Ok jack... I'm hanging at 60 and 240 is ahead, but I have it now,
because I chose to do something about it and brought it to the present , theres no need to procrastinate.
Any advice as I hit 60 because theres a lot of feedback there that even continues as it passes to 3x60,4x60 , because I know the road ahead even though its not visible... I know this road and want that curve ahead that is not in sight displayed
on the navigation ... which can be programmed to display what has yet to be driven.
The navigation needs to show the interactive maps . The map has a big x on it .
I'm taking gps at 1x60 . any advice ???
Were taking serious gps jack , the real deal
I'm asking santa for a kick ass navigator this year .
Hershey Highway
Quote from RCG Trader:
If Jack is broke and in debt, how did he get a tax bill of 82000 dollars?
You need to make > 350 k to get a tax bill that high. If anything, this post actually supports that Jack has made money trading.
Quote from RCG Trader:
If Jack is broke and in debt, how did he get a tax bill of 82000 dollars?
You need to make > 350 k to get a tax bill that high. If anything, this post actually supports that Jack has made money trading.
Be aware that the harassment you inflict yields bad energy against you from dozens people. You may not believe in these things, but are you willing to take the risk to feel it back in your life and your loved ones'? You shouldn't.
Quote from trevallicon:
Quote from trevallicon:
Ahhhh the new age chimes in.. wherever fantasy is to be found you'll find a tree hugging, guru humping hippie
And I'll take your feeble attempt at intimidation as a white flag and admission that what I've said can't be refuted and Jack is indeed broke, in debt and has a lousy system with many very very very stupid followers ;)
he quit fighting long ago,gave in to being a nutjob,question is does he have the balls to fight to get his sanity back,or keep the yellow streak going as an internet coward
my vote is internet coward; delusional one at that thinking he is 'reaching people' when all his posts get deleted each and every time
The part that cracks me up is when he says he receives PM's thanking him for his service! LOL....what a crock.
Quote from ammo:
he quit fighting long ago,gave in to being a nutjob,question is does he have the balls to fight to get his sanity back,or keep the yellow streak going as an internet coward
Quote from trevallicon:
It's like anything else when you tell the truth.. a numbers game
100 may see it and 99 may still delude themselves as you do..
But it's not about the ones that can't be helped, it's about the few that do wake up because they see the obvious disparity I highlight
That's the only pay off that can be expected when a deranged old man uses NLP to rope in suckers to massage his inflated ego to make up for a lifetime of failure
And if it were only ever one single person it would still be worth 2 minutes of my time ;)
He's not too bright, LOL
Quote from RCG Trader:
If anything, your constant bringing of old Jack threads to the top of each category has exposed more people the methodology, not less.
Quote from Wide Tailz:
Not that it is anyone's business, but this point is valid. There was a big income behind that bill.
Quote from BenzMercedesSL:
I always found CXD in MACD (the green rectangles in the attachment) and it is a lagging signal. I seldom see CXX, CXC, DXX, DXD and DXC in MACD.
I focus on these 5 triads (CXX, CXC, DXX, DXD and DXC). Am I on the right track?
Quote from jack hershey:
MBSL:
I read your priors to this.
The cases in two line theory you mention also have two others. These are D max C and C min D. They are as important as the crossover.
Having all of the cases, then allows you to build the OOE's of the cases. Having this complete finite set to finite set knowledge, then you can move to "knowing you always know".
Sorry for my delay.
I was glad to see that someone explained the relationship of taxes and income.
The IRS still does not understand the concept of trade secrets and just who gets to see what. they feel they are the empowered retdactors (but they aren't so far).
What is special about C min D? Isn't it the same as C X D?
Quote from jack hershey:
MBSL:
I read your priors to this.
The cases in two line theory you mention also have two others. These are D max C and C min D. They are as important as the crossover.
Having all of the cases, then allows you to build the OOE's of the cases. Having this complete finite set to finite set knowledge, then you can move to "knowing you always know".
....
Quote from SK0:
What is special about C min D? Isn't it the same as C X D?
Mister Jack,
Could it be that when liquidity is low fractals on the different time frames start overlapping each other and FTT's evaporate ?
Quote from d08:
Who says it's all from one year earnings? It could have accumulated from a very long period.
Quote from DB_sezwhat:
I'm not sure, but I think Sierra Charts does it the best. rainman2(great guy
Quote from jack hershey:
I use 10 to 12 leading indicators of the fractal I am trading. It is possible to invent about as many leading indicators as you wish.
Quote from Wide Tailz:
So you mean to imply that Mr. H is consistently profitable?
That's easy. Today at precisely 13:35:17, 17 seconds into the black forming bar, PRV indicated almost 10 times the Volume that is coming in compared to the previous bar (projecting over 80K). The Price was breaking out in a "certain" way out of "certain type" of lateral formation. Anybody who was short after 12:55 and takes their cue from that ridiculous volume vs. volatility matrix that you morons are worshiping, received the signal to reverse long. Those who trade know how it would have worked out after market dropped 10 points on the next 6 bars.
Quote from RCG Trader:
Volume leads price.
Demolish this for me.
In case you wanna bring up no-stationary window, at the close of 1340 bar YM was trading on the right side of the short channel after breaking its right trendline on increasing volume and in the volume trough which according to hershey precede the point 3 and resumption of the long trend. If you morons were actually trading instead beating the dead horse with static charts, you would see how ridiculous all that hershey-spyderguru crap is.
Here is a quick throw together ES chart if you want for reference.
Make sure to differentiate the "specific" lateral formation I referenced from all other types of lateral formations. Hint: note where the break out bar begins and how the picture would look like in real time instead eod static.
Quote from TIKITRADER:
Here is a quick throw together ES chart if you want for reference.
Quote from DB_sezwhat:
First, I would like to thank all of you that have pm'd me. One of the questions that gets asked is " when to cover and/or reverse?". Today, like every other day provided the answer with CDV of YM.( which as everybody knows is a leading indicator of ES). Pay particular attention to the green bookmarks on CDV.
I'm still looking for 1.21 gigawatts x 141.6 km/h to run this PRP machine...
I am talking the future right freaking here 240 before anyone else even knows it's happening.
1x60 !!!!! Im stuck here ...I need to get into the future HERE Jack
2x
3x
4x
5x
Dammit Dr Jack H , I need your assistance to launch the PRP futuremachine
I am serious... I am talking some serious shit here... serious shit.
Quote from TIKITRADER:
I'm still looking for 1.21 gigawatts x 141.6 km/h to run this PRP machine...
I am talking the future right freaking here 240 before anyone else even knows it's happening.
1x60 !!!!! Im stuck here ...I need to get into the future HERE Jack
2x
3x
4x
5x
Dammit Dr Jack H , I need your assistance to launch the PRP futuremachine
I am serious... I am talking some serious shit here... serious shit.
It's the Anti-Drago. Watch out for the Anti-Drago.
Gos,if you are so lazy or stupid to get it on your own,I can teach you JH method within a month but,it'll cost you 100k a month but,I guarantee you'll be a profitable trader after that.
Of course,if Jack doesn't mind.
For you it is.You've already lost a half of your brain cells.Thanks God,it is renewable ,don't lose the other half!
Quote from TIKITRADER:
Here is a quick throw together ES chart if you want for reference.
Ha-Ha. You succinctly put 10 yrs worth of hershey/spyder nonsense in one picture. Both are meaningless unless the execution rules are defined crisply and rigorously, which is something that sct presentations lack.
Quote from Joe Doaks:
Tike, I don't trade ES, but it took me about five minutes to crudely translate how I trade NQ on one-second to how to trade ES on five-minute. The presentation lacks eelegance, because I hacked it out quickly, but it gets the point across. If the study is all red or red bracketing orange, short. If the study is all green or green bracketing orange, long. The ESignal script is about 20 SLOCs long. The snapshoit is overnight data, PST.
You troll living in illusions and you want to come over a profitable method to get even more illusions.Never happens!
Quote from Nebuchadnezzar:
Ha-Ha. You succinctly put 10 yrs worth of hershey/spyder nonsense in one picture. Both are meaningless unless the execution rules are defined crisply and rigorously, which is something that sct presentations lack.
jack?
__________________
"Those that know ain't saying, and those saying don't know." - E. A. Neumann
A bear since 1958 and proud of it.
Quote from pepdegree:
Check 'Exact Science' thread for the execution rules.
Anger is not good for health.
Quote from Nebuchadnezzar:
Quote from Nebuchadnezzar:
Can you imagine what kind of shit is going on inside a person's head who puts up this type of crap :
Quote from stock777:
jack?
There are plenty of lunatics who claim to be engineers, some of them even allowed on the computer. This is not the work of a person who is capable of straight thinking, forming the concepts and communicating them to other humans.
Quote from pepdegree:
He is an engineer.Be selective,don't take everything for granted.
Quote from Nebuchadnezzar:
There are plenty of lunatics who claim to be engineers, some of them even allowed on the computer. This is not the work of a person who is capable of straight thinking, forming the concepts and communicating them to other humans.
You seem to get pretty desperate. It's time to forget about all this, and go on with your life.
Quote from Gostanner:
I think Jack wearing his hair in a ponytail in his 80's ...
Quote from Joe Doaks:
Tike, I don't trade ES, but it took me about five minutes to crudely translate how I trade NQ on one-second to how to trade ES on five-minute. The presentation lacks eelegance, because I hacked it out quickly, but it gets the point across. If the study is all red or red bracketing orange, short. If the study is all green or green bracketing orange, long. The ESignal script is about 20 SLOCs long. The snapshoit is overnight data, PST.
Nice work. You have captured the moves well. I have seen you do this previously and it really was impressive not being sarcastic.
Quote from TIKITRADER:
One of your larger charts
How is it in real time ?
Quote from Joe Doaks:
Whatever you saw before was different. I change systems faster than a whore changes her drawers.
Brown paper packages tied up with strings
These are a few of my favorite things
Jack Hershey
Wow, I would probably never figure that out. Thanks so much.
So, we have three triad cases down. What are the other three alternative triad cases that the first element is limited to D or C and the middle is not D or C? C Trending C? Or C Parallel D? Or D Parallel D? Or on speculative spirit, something to do with Entwine or Away? Do the "two-line" triad cases apply to the Fast and Slow Stochastic indicators?
TIA.
Quote from jack hershey:
As you look at monitoring and analyzing several fractals, it is important to know where you are on your trading fractal.
The faster fractal is having three moves for each move on the trading fractal.
As you go through the succession of the 3:1 ratio, you see legs of the trading fractal more or less pause as the faster fractal is doing its non dominant middle leg. So at this time there is no crossover by the fast line of the slow line. There is convergence and a minimum and then divergence.
All of this tells you to hold through the non dom faster fractal move.
When using indicators to trade, once their defaults afford proper synchronization, then you can read several fractals on the indicators.
A very important thing is to mentally evelop the skills to "read" two line indicators as leading indicators. This skill is gained by learning the OOE of each fractal on the two lines; then you adjust the OOE to be read just as you add a phase angle to a sinusoid. Two line indicators have a lot of signals and each sunset applied to the OOE of each of the nested fractals.
As a trader's skill increases, he considers trading more frequently than FTT to FTT. If he has watched the two line indicators with sensitiviety, he can easily switch to more frequent trading.
Elsewhere there is a thread on effectiveness on several different approaches and strategies. There you see a yield per 100K for a combo of several divisions (meaning approaches and markets). The organization makes 11 dollars a minute over a year using RTH's in the markets it plays.
When you look at one account in ES and do point to point trading, the account only makes 3 to 4 dollars a minute. Then you can consider the NFA amateur limits of individual person's accounts for amateurs (15). This means an amateur can make about 45 to 60 dollars a minute on the limited accounts he can trade on one exchange. Each of the 15 accounts can trade several exchanges simultaineously in each country. As a day passes, RTH's begin and end in different countries. For example South America is East of the US by half a day in RTH's terms. european Exchanges preceded both SA and the US. Asian markets cycle ahead of European markets. Roughly speaking by using Colo and having local credit based on central capitalization, you can at least triple the minutely rate of 45 to 60 dollars a minute as an amateur.
All of the above only applies to intraday trading market paces which have relatively low account balances. For position trading, each account is 5 times larger And makes much less money velocity and for SSR the capital is unlimited but there is a very low money velocity ofeten meaured over weeks and months.
Two line indicators work for all liquid markets. Liquidity is a minimum market requirement. Making money by monitoring and analysis is only related to the market's pace and the duration of trend segment in a given trading fractal.
Basically, you only build your mind once. BUT it is also true that you have only one opportunity to build your mind.
Full differentiation is only dependent on doing drills to obtain the pieces of inference. The mind does two things for you. It arranges the pieces in a logical spectrum. Then where weaknesses exist, the mind surfaces questions to be drilled upon to bring the spectrum into balance.
Most people deny themselves the once in a lifetime opportunity. Their way of growing in a given convention slowly squeezes out the opportunity. On.Target is a good person to read to understand how this divorce from opportunity takes place. He avoided it by growing in one of the acceptable conventions. His organization would not be limited to 11 dollars a minute for RTH annually.
If a person wishes he can marry the two line theory to "The Pattern". I use 10 to 12 leading indicators of the fractal I am trading. It is possible to invent about as many leading indicators as you wish.
Markets are basically timeless. They have participant operating rules. Collectively, all the participants in a given market have this timeless participating characteristic. It fit under the heading of Human Nature. Humans have learned to harness Science to work for them and to define, intimately, the working of Nature. The markets all fit into this realm of study and examination.
So the market, for me, are part of my supply chain. I simply extract the full offer of the markets continually. Anyone can look at the relationship of the market's offer and the performance of PEP, the paradigm best used, for extracting capital from their operating pools.
Why doesn't betting work? It is good to know this.
Quote from TIKITRADER:
Hold on to these whore drawers Joe, looks like you picked off something good.
Keep it up. Whores like it that way
...Jack was banned by Baron 10 years ago? ...
jack hershey
Registered: Feb 2003
Jack is either a great entertainer and hypnotist OR the worlds greatest living trader. Let the readers decide for themselves which they believe for belief is Jack's most stringent demand (in keeping with all great hypnotists and traders).
A guy I know trades the daily limit on the ES holding 20,000 cars in a single trade and he day trades in and out. He can't trade as well as Jack nor is he much good at entertaining either.
His method is pretty simple but he believes in it and that is his key. If you want to be a Jack detractor then the only fair way is to show you know what you are talking about and start up a trading thread showing the proper way to trade or leave Jack to do what he does best.
Personally I think Jack is great at what he does.
__________________
Xspurt
Quote from UncleSanders:
Do you think Jack lets his hair down when having sex or does he pony up?
__________________
Xspurt
Quote from Xspurt:
You should be very grateful for Jack. He gives your life meaning and purpose. Without Jack you'd have nothing to offer, nothing to post.
However your obsession is unhealthy and is screwing up your mind. Try and imagine what life would be like if you could trade - it would give you another focus and perhaps wean you off Jack.
Start up a How-I-Trade thread and help others. Jack might even help!
Quote from nkhoi:
Someone who I have on ignore has replied to this thread.
My parameters for this thread are: if you have something negative to say, without having first dug into the methods, you are on ignore. I do not even bother to read your posts past the first sentence.
JH has worked tirelessly for a long time to give people a way to view the markets. Anyone who does not give this a fair hearing gets the ignore button.
Have a nice day.
Quote from RCG Trader:
Someone who I have on ignore has replied to this thread.
My parameters for this thread are: if you have something negative to say, without having first dug into the methods, you are on ignore. I do not even bother to read your posts past the first sentence.
JH has worked tirelessly for a long time to give people a way to view the markets. Anyone who does not give this a fair hearing gets the ignore button.
Have a nice day.
Quote from Joe Doaks:
Yes. At about the same time as Wiles Welder.
Quote from nkhoi:
good to see you back I am not so thrilled with other guy, too sane!
You sound so desperate to convince us
If one has been led astray by Jack or anyone posting on an internet forum, the that's ones own damn fault.
Really, grow up.
Quote from Joe Doaks:
So we give him credit for the good old college try of "working tirelessly?" While Jack has made some few good observations, the vast majority of his oeuvre is errant nonsense. Uncountable noobs here have been led ass-tray by his gookledegobb, and we have every two years or so a well-documented case of one who tried and crashed and burned. But worse, persons of low or no character have been discouraged from trying trading by Jack's pious insistence that a successful trader must be a modern day Knight Templar.
Quote from Joe Doaks:
As always, you are too kind. Since Jack is so good at misleading people unintentionally, all that is left for me is to do so with intent. If fools believe in SCT, then why not tempt them to believe it can be done in 50 EFS SLOCs or less?
A stimulating exercise, not unlike a red pepper enema. The chart shown is NQ. Alas, it doesn't work nearly as well for ES. But a successful emulation of all the nasty whipsaws in SCT.
For those most knowledgeable about JH's method - whom would you most compare him to as a successful trader?
Jesse Livermore?
Warren Buffet?
George Soros?
Paul Tudor Jones?
_________?
Who is closest in comparison with his success?
Quote from MarketMasher:
For those most knowledgeable about JH's method - whom would you most compare him to as a successful trader?
Jesse Livermore?
Warren Buffet?
George Soros?
Paul Tudor Jones?
_________?
Who is closest in comparison with his success?
tweak it the call it ... the _Doaksdicator
Ooooo! Oooo! I have a chart like that!!
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/62/pinkyblue.png/
It's called the PinkyBlue System (developed by Pinky of Pinky and the Brain - the REAL genius!)
Buy on Blue and Sell on Pink! It's almost as easy as Red Light/Green Light! (I miss those WizeTrade Infomercials ) Pinky says follow with a stop like a mouse follows cheese! (whatever that means...)
Quote from MarketMasher:
Ooooo! Oooo! I have a chart like that !!
Quote from TIKITRADER:
My apologies, I should have quoted JD. Its joe doaks chart. His indicator on it I just annotated over it.
Quote from TIKITRADER:
tweak it the call it ... the _Doaksdicator
Well, I didn't think it would chart this late at night, but here it is.
Nice colours. Pink. Blue. Pink. Blue.....
I have fewer. I may be short-changed on colours. Also lines. Definitely short-changed on lines...
"Make things as simple as possible - but no simpler." A. Einstein.
Pinky says there is genius in simplicity. And that cottage cheese isn't really cheese.
Quote from MarketMasher:
For those most knowledgeable about JH's method - whom would you most compare him to as a successful trader?
Jesse Livermore?
Warren Buffet?
George Soros?
Paul Tudor Jones?
_________?
Who is closest in comparison with his success?
he he he
Quote from v34rm:
Quote from MarketMasher:
That was a serious question. I also left a blank for whomever else might be a closer comparison (Ed Seykota? Larry Williams? Bruce Kovner? Steve Cohen?)
There are names that are known because eventually the buzz gets around with things that are publicly traded that somebody is a mover-n-shaker. (You probably get 1st class servicing at that point too).
So I would expect JH's name to be placed among the pantheon of names that are known in the business. Do the people on the floor at CME or NYSE know of him?
I'm pretty sure most people have heard of Pinky of Pinky and the Brain...
I need Jack for the PRP Time travel machine.
Where'd he go ????
Jack's the man ... We need him back ....
Quote from Wide Tailz:
Not that it is anyone's business, but this point is valid. There was a big income behind that bill.
__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?
Bud Fox
Wall Street
Quote from DB_sezwhat:
First, I would like to thank all of you that have pm'd me. One of the questions that gets asked is " when to cover and/or reverse?". Today, like every other day provided the answer with CDV of YM.( which as everybody knows is a leading indicator of ES). Pay particular attention to the green bookmarks on CDV.
__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?
Bud Fox
Wall Street
Quote from GordonTheGekko:
Some of the comments about Spyderrader being an incredibly poorly dressed ratty guy, Jack in huge debt, Jack not doing an insurance startup, etc. don't really have validity to them. All I hear is the tax lien thing.
Can someone clarify these?
__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?
Bud Fox
Wall Street
Quote from ammo:
seems his threads are a back door into et for all the nutjobs,some guys that dont know bid/ask pile on for the chance to post,there is even one guy in here with an attic full of jack memorabilia,posts his doll,news clippings,national enquirer articles,jack were you in a rock band at one time,maybe they are your old groupies
__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?
Bud Fox
Wall Street
Quote from ammo:
i just don't get the constant negativitry towards jack,if you have a system of your own and it works use it,if you cant grasp jacks ignore it,he writes like he writes,walks like he walks, breaths...none of that is going to change,i'm amazed at the tossing of rotten tomatoes this guy gets,some deep message in the human condition beneath it all,do any of the tomato tossers know why they toss or is it a join the crowd ,sheep herd mentality ,thing
__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?
Bud Fox
Wall Street
Jack,
Are you going to post next years prediction this year?
Quote from ammo:
ignore bwol,he's in the midst of disproving himself to himself,you know,break it down,analyze the weaknesses and then rebuild a better engine,doesn't know squat about trading,just theories and math,how to fool himself, ego,all that go from a caterpillar to a butterfly stuff,still in the cocoon,his opinion is invalid even to him
__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?
Bud Fox
Wall Street
not smart enough to do all that,stupidly,i just trade whats in front of me,the shortcut for dummies
Quote from bwolinsky:
This is utter gibberish! Just gibberish! Do you have the program?
I want to see your chart. Be sure you've marked your entries and please show me how the price is breaking below its pv.
__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?
Bud Fox
Wall Street
Quote from baro-san:
Nobody can demonstrate that Hershey's method doesn't work. They just show they can't get it.
__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?
Bud Fox
Wall Street
Still listening to the ego,got to drown that thing bo,it's like the string on a yo yo,cut it and your free,hang on to it and your in the center of a finite circle,out to the fence and back to the center, that you don't dare step outside of
Quote from bwolinsky:
No, but I am absolutely the only one .
Quote from bwolinsky:
DON'T EVER LISTEN TO ANOTHER FUCKING STUPID ASS 4 VARIABLE MARKOV CHAIN RANT BY JACK HERSHEY. READ THIS ENTIRE THREAD AND BE SURE TO DOWNLOAD THE ASCII DATAFILE AT THE END OF THE THREAD SO THAT YOU CAN SEE THAT JACK HERSHEY'S METHOD DOES NOT WORK ON ANYTHING BUT IN WEALTH-LAB BECAUSE THAT WAS WHERE THE THEORY ORIGINATED AND IT IS ONLY PROFITABLE IN WEALTH LAB SO DON'T LET ANOTHER PSYCHO BABBLE MULTI PARAGRAPH THREAD BY THIS MAN LEAVE YOU WONDERING IF HE HAS A SYSTEM THAT'S PROFITABLE ENOUGH. SEE FOR YOURSELF, BUT DON'T GO OFF ON YOUR LONESOME AND THINK THAT YOU WILL EVER FIND A SET OF PARAMETERS THAT WILL MAGICALLY GIVE YOU THE JACK HERSHEY METHOD. THIS THREAD IS ENTIRELY DEVOTED TO DETERMINING THE PROFITABILITY OF JACK HERSHEY'S METHOD, CIRCA 2008 AND NOT A DAM THING HAS CHANGED. HE'S JUST AS ALOOF, JUST AS STRANGE, DEMENTED AND WHEN IT COMES TO SAVING THE MASSES FROM MORE YEARS OF CURIOSITY THIS IS IT. DON'T EVER REVIEW THE HUNDREDS OF PAGES OF DRIVEL THIS MAN HAS SPEWED ALL OVER THE INTERNET BECAUSE THIS THREAD GETS IT. YEAH, OH, YEAH! THAT'S REAL! I'M GOING OFF BECAUSE I STILL HAVE PEOPLE ASKING ME WHAT HIS CODE IS, AND YET THERE SEEM TO BE MANY WHO STILL COME TO ET JUST TO BE LEAD LIKE COWS TO THE SLAUGHTER WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO YOU IF YOU DO NOT DO ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING I TELL YOU I DID IN THIS THREAD. DOWNLOAD THE ASCII DATA AND THEN BACKTEST IT YOU MORONS. JACK HERSHEY'S SCRIPT IS NOT DESIGNED TO TRADE ANYTHING BUT .SPX AT FIDELITY. THERE ISN'T ANY SYMBOL IN THIS UNIVERSE THAT WILL ALLOW YOU TO TRADE HIS METHOD PROFITABLY BECAUSE SO FEW OF YOU HAVE EVEN EVER THOUGHT ABOUT BACKTESTING USING WEALTH LAB PRO AND UNFORTUNATELY NOW I THINK THE CODE THERE IS LIMITED TO THE OLD PERL, SO IF YOU WANT TO KNOW HOW WELL HIS FUCKING METHOD GODDAMIT YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE RIGHT GODAM FUCKING DATA! IF YOU COME TO ME AFTER GETTING MY CODE AND ASK ME WHY IT DOESN'T WORK ON ES, OR DOESN'T WORK ON NQ OR WHICHEVER INDEX YOU THINK IT MIGHT WORK ON, IT DOESN'T! JESUS MOTHERFUCKING CHRIST HOW LONG HAVE I WAITED JUST TO LAY THE SMACK DOWN ON THIS CHARLATAN AND WHEN I TELL YOU THAT MORE BRAINCELLS HAVE BEEN WASTED THINKING THIS CON ARTIST HAS ANYTHING BUT EMPTY PROMISES AND YEARS OF FAILURE I AM NOT LYING. THIS WHOLE THREAD PROVES IT. EVERY BIT OF IT. NO, DON'T BE A FUCKING MORON AND TELL ME THAT YOU HAD TO RE-OPTIMIZE OR SOMETHING STUPID LIKE THAT. YOU DON'T HAVE TO CHANGE A FUCKING THING WITH THE SCRIPT. NO OPTIMIZATION IS REQUIRED. DON'T EVER OPTIMIZE BECAUSE THE SCRIPT AT THIS THREAD HAS ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO TEST, BUT SINCE MOST OF YOU ARE AT FIDELITY DOWNLOAD THE FUCKING DATA IN THE EXCEL FUCKING SPREADSHEET FILE THEN SEE IF YOUR SYSTEM WHICH I'M SURE YOU CODED CORRECTLY WORKS, BECAUSE IT WORKS "AS-IS" WITH NO MODIFICATIONS REQUIRED SO GODDAMIT DON'T EVER TELL ME YOU WANT TO USE JACK HERSHEY'S METHOD FOR TRADING ES BECAUSE HE'S A FAKE! HE'S A FRAUD! IF YOU WANT PROOF ABOUT THE DISCREPANCY BETWEEN YEARS OF CHARLATANISM AND ENDLESS, DRIVEL AND PSYCHOBABBLE PUT THE DATA INTO WHATEVER SIMULATOR YOU HAVE AND THEN GO AND BACKTEST BECAUSE I'M GOING OFF LIKE THIS BECAUSE IF I HAVE TO SUFFER ANOTHER ONE OF THESE GODDAM THREADS WHERE ANOTHER STUPID ALIAS STARTS A THREAD ABOUT JACK HERSHEY THEN GO ON! READ EVERY LAST WORD OF THIS THREAD AND IF YOU ARE NOT COMPLETELY SATISFIED BY WHAT I'VE POSTED THERE THEN YOU HAVE WASTED MY TIME. DON'T EVER WASTE MY TIME ASKING ABOUT JACK HERSHEY'S METHOD BECAUSE THE VALUES HAVE BEEN FIXED SINCE EARLY 2000 AND WHENEVER I HEAR ABOUT DUMASSES WHO THINK THEY CAN JUST ASK QUESTIONS AND FIND ANSWERS THIS MAN WILL NEVER GIVE YOU A STRAIGHT ANSWER BECAUSE THAT IS HIS LAME ASS MODUS OPERANDI HE PROBABLY LEARNED IN SECONDARY SCHOOL. I WANT EVERYONE TO KNOW THAT THERE IS NO OTHER DATASET IN THE GALAXY THAT WILL GIVE YOU A PROFITABLE BACKTEST OF HIS METHOD, LET ALONE A WALK FORWARD ONE. SO SAVE YOURSELF YEARS OF PAIN AND AGONY WONDERING IF YOU'LL EVER GET IT. YOU WILL IF YOU FOLLOW ALL OF MY INSTRUCTIONS TO THE T, AND IF YOU ASK ME IF YOU HAVE TO CHANGE HIS METHOD ABSOLUTELY FUCKING NOT. THOSE VARIABLES ARE FIXED, SET IN STONE, THEY'VE NEVER CHANGED! SO DON'T TALK TO ME ABOUT CURVE FITS BECAUSE THIS GODDAM THREAD IS 3 FUCKING YEARS OLD, AND i KNOW THE DATASET IS STALE BUT IT'S THE ONLY REMNANT OF PROOF WE HAVE THAT IT COULD BE PROFITABLE. IT JUST ISN'T PROFITABLE ON ANY GODDAM SYMBOL BUT .SPX. THAT'S IT. YOU HAVE SPYDERTRADER AND JACK HERSHEY ANONYMOUSLY AT TIMES EXCHANGING TRADING INFORMATION. JACK HAD THE METHOD, AND SPYDERTRADER CODED IT, BUT NOT ONLY HAS ALL OF JACK HERSHEY'S LOGIC BEEN COMPILED HERE, BUT THE RESULTS AT THE TIME OUGHT TO BE JUST AS STRIKING BUT THERE IS REALLY NO OTHER WAY THAT I CAN TELL YOU TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO USE HIS METHOD THAN BY DOWNLOAD THE ASCII EXCEL SPREADSHEET OR TXT FILE THAT YOU THEN WILL HAVE TO ESPECIALLY LOAD BY USING THE RIGHT FORMATS AND THAT WAS SOMETHING LIKE YYYYMNDD AND SOME TIMES SO IF YOU HAVE A BACKTESTING PROGRAM THEN YOU'VE GOT TO READ THIS ENTIRE THREAD! DON'T EVER WASTE ANYMORE PAGES WONDERING IF JACK'S METHOD WORKS SO WELL WHY CAN'T ANYONE PROVE IT? I DID PROVE IT, SEVERAL YEARS AGO. COMPARE THE ES TO .SPX AND I FUCKING GUARANDAMTEE YOU THAT IF YOU EVER WANT TO FUCKING KNOW IF HIS METHOD REALLY IS AS GREAT AS HE SAYS IT IS OR PRETENDS THAT IT IS, THEN PUT AN END TO YOUR JACK HERSHEY METHOD FANTASIES, BECAUSE THIS THREAD BLEW OPEN THE DOOR OF EVERYTHING JACK HOLDS DEAR, AND IF YOU REALLY WANTED TO FUCKING HELP YOU POOR, LOST SOULS HE WOULD JUST GIVE YOU THE CODE TO USE. BUT HE'S A PATHOLOGICAL LIAR, A FRAUD, AND A CHARLATAN. IF YOU DON'T LISTEN TO ANY WORDS OTHER THAN WHERE I START THIS MUCH NEEDED RANT THEN PLEASE, BY ALL MEANS, READ EVERY FUCKING WORD IN THIS THREAD AND DOWNLOAD THE DATA AND COMPARE IT TO ES. IF YOU DON'T SEE THE DIFFERENCE YOU GUYS ARE FUCKING STUPID! IDIOTIC GODDAMIT! I'M TIRED OF PEOPLE ASKING WHY THEY CAN'T GET A PROFITABLE BACKTEST, LET ALONE A PROFITABLE PERIOD OF WALK FORWARD RESULTS. JESUS CHRIST THIS THREAD IS EXACTLY WHY SOMEONE NEEDS TO GO OFF ON ALL OF JACK'S LAME HORSERADDISH STUPIDITY.
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...y&pagenumber=63 http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...y&pagenumber=56 http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.
I KNOW PUBLIC RANTING IS BAD BUT SERIOUSLY, JACK HERSHEY IS MORE THAN A LITTLE OFF BASE WHEN IT COMES TO PRETENSION, SO DON'T EVER LET ME HEAR ANOTHER FUCKING WORD ABOUT WHETHER HIS METHOD WORKS. IT'S A JOKE. THE METHOD HAS ONLY BEEN SHOWN TO BE PROFITABLE IN THIS BACKTEST, SO PLEASE DON'T EVER WASTE ANYMORE TIME LISTENING TO THIS PSYCHOTIC PSYCHOBABBLER. JACK HERSHEY KNOWS HE IS SENILE, BUT IT IS ONLY WHEN YOU REALLY START TO STUDY THE SCOTTD THREADS AND THE JACK HERSHEY METHOD EXPOSED AS A FRAUD THREAD THAT I KNOW IF ANY OF YOU ARE REALLY SO INTERESTED THEN YOU WILL FUCKING READ EVERY GODDAM WORD OF THIS THREAD IN ITS ENTIRETY. THEN I WANT YOU TO DOWNLOAD THE ASCII DATA. NEXT PROGRAM THE LOGIC, AND TEST YOUR SCRIPT ON THE DATA. THEN, IF POSSIBLE, DOWNLOAD DATA FOR ES FROM THE SAME TIME PERIOD AND I'M NOT LYING IT WILL NOT BE ANYWHERE NEAR THE PROFITABILITY OF WHAT WAS SHOWN IN THIS THREAD. DON'T THINK I'M YELLING JUST TO BE A LOUD MOUTH. NO, JACK HERSHEY SHOULD BE ASHAMED AT ALL THE HORRIBLE THINGS HE'S SAID ABOUT CONDESCENDING INDIVIDUALS WHEN HE IS JUST AS CONDESCENDING IF NOT MORESO. I WANT THIS TO BE HIS EPITAPH BECAUSE HE CAN'T HAVE TOO MUCH LONGER TO LIVE, AND WE'LL PROBABLY NEVER EVEN KNOW ANYTHING HAS HAPPENED BECAUSE HE'S THAT FUCKING SENILE.
__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?
Bud Fox
Wall Street
bo .its just channel trading, refined after years of study,what's so hard to understand,jack studied it and understands it better than those who haven't,not much different than what you are trying to accomplish,take a piece of the market and try to find out how it was constructed,break it down,put it back together , and try to figure where it's going in advance
Quote from ammo:
bo .its just channel trading, refined after years of study,what's so hard to understand,jack studied it and understands it better than those who haven't,not much different than what you are trying to accomplish,take a piece of the market and try to find out how it was constructed,break it down,put it back together , and try to figure where it's going in advance
__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?
Bud Fox
Wall Street
Quote from ammo:
Still listening to the ego,got to drown that thing bo,it's like the string on a yo yo,cut it and your free,hang on to it and your in the center of a finite circle,out to the fence and back to the center, that you don't dare step outside of
__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?
Bud Fox
Wall Street
the market moves up or down or sideways,get your nose out of a book and try it,get your feet wet,you are not qualified to judge what works and doesn't thru tests,what is written is only about ten percent of what happens,your depiction of any endless number of ideas is limited by a finite vocabulary,there are not enough words to completely explain what is happening,and that is if your mind could grasp everything that was happening,we ,gs,jpm,the 6 month new trader,nobody can grasp it all,just parts of it, there are thousands of books describing hundreds of ways to trade,of those how many viable plans were transferred to the reader,you are believing in some crap that has been disproven on here a dozen times,not one taker,the only one believing it is you,so you fooled yourself,but you got to hang on to your precious ego,----------(ego--"ya your right bo" -- bo ,"i know,i know ,the world is full of morons")-------how's that working for ya, how much money is that ego paying you a week,does it pay your rent,groceries,the longer you are at it,more parts,only in your mind do you believe the crap you are spewing here,your fucked up,living in a box,climb out and try it,worst that can happen,you will fail and try again,over and over,the more you master ,the more you will try,the bigger the fall,but you will have become adept at falling and getting back up,life goes on,quit being such a wuss and go out and fail,fuck your ego,what doesn't kill you will make you stronger,smarter...shut the fuck up and listen to what's going on in the world..you are learning at a snails pace,if you used half the brain you think you were given,you would have ended this nonsense years ago,time to leave the childhood behind and become an adult...if you dont' you"ll be sharing a rubber room with the other nutjob,he's been stuck on an island for years,could've built a 1000 rafts by now....don't be the poster boy for "a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing"...et already has one,several
$3500 is decent change, but nothing to brag about.
Quote from bwolinsky:
First off, I don't trade on ego or emotion. I trade on quantitative analysis, and only quantitative analysis.
If you are convinced that I do not trade, I made over 3,500 fucking dollars yesterday. How much did you make?
Quote from R. Raskolnikov:
$3500 is decent change, but nothing to brag about.
__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?
Bud Fox
Wall Street
made 10.6k yesterday on 5 trades, lost 212 today,your right,your right,always right,the world's full of morons, thank god you're here to save us from our stupidity in our time of need,....me and my ego ,leggo a my eggo
Quote from bwolinsky:
In a day?
Well it's not my life's goal of consistently banking $256,625 per day, but it's a start.
I know ammo didn't make that much yesterday but he can say anything.
My clients in total made way more than me, but have much larger accounts.
of course you were right about htis
Quote from bwolinsky:
The ability to identify validity is all you need. No one but me has provided even a shread of evidence that his method could even be profitable, and I know for a fact he does not use fidelity, therefore, he could not possibly be profitable.
and i know you have a friend high up in the irs and verified this,good work,right again
Quote from bwolinsky:
No there wasn't. He owed backtaxes on property. It wasn't income, but a bunch years cheating the system out of property taxes.
You'll need to dig up the post where this was explained because I do not keep track of nonsense like that.
you asked the mods before making this statement, right again
Quote from bwolinsky:
Most likely you have received no PMs.
wonderful list,ilike the wording, wise choice, backing the nutjob, right again
Quote from bwolinsky:
Ammo, the alias Trader666 has compiled a wonderful list of all of Jack's Insanity. It is absolutely true the claim that he was hired to explore antarctica by the UN to study the effects of global warming.
That is only one of the hilarious tales.
He has the doll there because this crosses the line into lunacy, and I suggest reading that the next time you see it.
i will never do this so i will always be a moron,right again, all this research and on just one page,your either the biggest bullshitter on et or jc himself,no one can lie this much and believe anyone else believes it so you most be JC,i humbly bow to you ,forgive me,i knew not when addressing you
Quote from bwolinsky:
You are a moron.
Download the tick files, load it into ascii, and backtest the strategy and its code. When you have done this, you will cease to be a moron.
Quote from ammo:
bo's mentor,another et genius, is also right,even if it's only one thing repeated 1000 times year after year after year
Quote from ammo:
you asked the mods before making this statement, right again
__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?
Bud Fox
Wall Street
Who is the crazy that keeps coming here and complaining about Hershey? Whoever he/she is, they've made some sort of life's work out of it.
Quote from bwolinsky:
No there wasn't. He owed backtaxes on property. It wasn't income, but a bunch years cheating the system out of property taxes.
You'll need to dig up the post where this was explained because I do not keep track of nonsense like that.
All kidding aside in some previous posts, just having fun.
Jack, What is the single best log for trading you have written and used yourself for all 81 - 5 minute bars.
Serious question. I have seen many of your log sheets and have used some, but I would like to know which one you have used to detail has been the best for its purpose.
I am interested in one of your really good sheets to log with and to use for some time and see what develops.
Sincere Thank you for any contribution you may post here.
bump ^ and greatly appreciate it.
Pinky says:
“Any fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius-and a lot of courage-to move in the opposite direction.”
No, wait....that was Einstein.....
Well, Pinky likes Einstein, so that's ok.....
Quote from MarketMasher:
Pinky says:
�Any fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius-and a lot of courage-to move in the opposite direction.�
Some of Jack's logs here but I was looking for the older style that was blank of filled in data.
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/attac...&postid=2984918
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/attac...&postid=2643630
Quote from TIKITRADER:
Some of Jack's logs here but I was looking for the older style that was blank of filled in data.
Quote from Paddler:
Log is personal.
If he logs, he would need to record his MADA in audio. How is he going to write down his log if he takes profits at least twice on each 5-min bar?
Quote from TIKITRADER:
His Minions do the logging while he presses 't' ...
Some of his older logs that I no longer see around, Jack would log as many as six lines of information per five minute bar.
Also I do think Jack uses Dragon for speech to text.
It could then be logged at latter time .
SYM B/B (V up) >> FTP B/B (V up) >> XB (V up) >>
Spike down >> IBGS R (V up) >> Stitch B/R (V up) >> OB R.
ftt, bo, pt 2 subtle differences LOL
Quote from Paddler:
I like his finite math in the ten cases of adjacent bars and case mutation of forming bar. It is actually common to MADA and log more than six lines per 5-min bar. The basic symbols of a forming bar could be SYM, FTP, FBP, Stitch, Hitch, OB, Spike and IBGS. Combine the mutating cases with sentiment change, volume change and the point in fast fractal, you will face few surprises. As someone said, it is in the subtle differences.
Quote from TIKITRADER:
You know a little too much for a few posts under your belt...
Who do you work for ?
Where does your intelligence come from ??
What's your mission about ????
How do you feel about agent T28 and have you ever worked alongside him ??????
I work for ET - Central Intelligence, division 3x D-r. So you never knew intelligence was abound on ET ? ... Our mission is a success. It is exactly how we wanted to appear.
hee hee thanks for the posts... great stuff, seriously
I want to pick up on this later when I get back
More often than that!
But it takes near zero effort to get rid of that trash, and all remnants of his/her existence each time he/she comes out to whine.
Quote from RCG Trader:
Nice call, it's sybil. It shows up every weekend.
Quote from TIKITRADER:
You know a little too much for a few posts under your belt...
Who do you work for ?
Where does your intelligence come from ??
What's your mission about ????
How do you feel about agent T28 and have you ever worked alongside him ??????
I work for ET - Central Intelligence, division 3x D-r. So you never knew intelligence was abound on ET ? ... Our mission is a success. It is exactly how we wanted to appear.
hee hee thanks for the posts... great stuff, seriously
I want to pick up on this later when I get back
Quote from Paddler:
LOL, you think I am talking nonsense and categorize me as a troll? No wonder you can't undersand why log is personal and why a bar is logged six lines or more.
Do not just "read" what the master wrote. Think and question several times over a sufficiently long period. Otherwise, one will easily turn into a frustrated stroll or a numbed daft. The various logs you saw were actually training tools for the master to illustrate his "points" at particular times and our job is to understand the concepts behind the logs and convert (modify) them into personally useful tools. For a bar to take six or more lines to log, I can tell that you have little idea about the cases other than the simple obvious answers from the master. Try harder to see the subtle differences in the PV sequences.
Good luck.
Sybil? Trash? What a fool! LOL
__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?
Bud Fox
Wall Street
Quote from Wide Tailz:
I notice you accumulate many positions on price weakness, "averaging down" as they say, then dump them all when you're in the green. This would explain your high win rate. I found this out myself trading long options, but didn't have the ballz develop the method further.
I went through my trade history and found the largest wins, by far, were when I kept buying as an option depreciated, as long as the underlying sat on a support. Then one day the price would pop and I'd drop. Kachingo.
Just like "use stops", the old "losers average losers" rule was disproved in real trading. The trick is to have the high probability setup. Sounds like you use a volatility and spread input. I had a neat little price pattern based on in-trend reversals, but it only worked in a bull market.
__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?
Bud Fox
Wall Street
Quote from Paddler:
LOL, you think I am talking nonsense and categorize me as a troll? No wonder you can't undersand why log is personal and why a bar is logged six lines or more.
Do not just "read" what the master wrote. Think and question several times over a sufficiently long period. Otherwise, one will easily turn into a frustrated stroll or a numbed daft. The various logs you saw were actually training tools for the master to illustrate his "points" at particular times and our job is to understand the concepts behind the logs and convert (modify) them into personally useful tools. For a bar to take six or more lines to log, I can tell that you have little idea about the cases other than the simple obvious answers from the master. Try harder to see the subtle differences in the PV sequences.
Good luck.
Sybil? Trash? What a fool! LOL
Quote from TIKITRADER:
You speak of the Master with such knowledge... Could it be ...
Quote from bwolinsky:
There is no math here, you juvenile idiot, and tiki is kind of playing both sides some of the time, but I assure you this thread is completely devoid of quantitative logic as Jack does not actually ever give that, and that's part of the charade.
If you classify anything here as math then you probably don't even have a college degree.
Quote from Paddler:
Nope! I am a lurker, alone. Disappointed?
Quote from Paddler:
LOL, you think I am talking nonsense and categorize me as a troll? No wonder you can't undersand why log is personal and why a bar is logged six lines or more.
Do not just "read" what the master wrote. Think and question several times over a sufficiently long period. Otherwise, one will easily turn into a frustrated stroll or a numbed daft. The various logs you saw were actually training tools for the master to illustrate his "points" at particular times and our job is to understand the concepts behind the logs and convert (modify) them into personally useful tools. For a bar to take six or more lines to log, I can tell that you have little idea about the cases other than the simple obvious answers from the master. Try harder to see the subtle differences in the PV sequences.
Good luck.
Sybil? Trash? What a fool! LOL
Quote from Pekanpistach:
Over here dopey..
Are you guys just always wrong?
Quote from bwolinsky:
My methods.......
Quote from parametrichypo:
Great post! Most want him to hand deliver the "secret" without doing any of the work. Jack "points" you in the right direction or more accurately 'to the left of the right" and its up to the individual to do or to not do. The "not do's" painstakingly look at one second charts all day. Dumb Ass Texans...OOPS
Smart money is long.
__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?
Bud Fox
Wall Street
ME is still the central point in the majority of your post's,no matter what system you come up with, this ME weakness takes all traders down,you need to work on it now,not someday
Quote from bwolinsky:
with mine having the only profitable backtest.
Quote from ammo:
ME is still the central point in the majority of your post's,no matter what system you come up with, this ME weakness takes all traders down,you need to work on it now,not someday
__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?
Bud Fox
Wall Street
you wear your ego like a pimp hat,your making a fool of yourself http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tB2ZZgbmZ2U
Quote from bwolinsky:
And, yes, me,
Quote from parametrichypo:
Great post! Most want him to hand deliver the "secret" without doing any of the work. Jack "points" you in the right direction or more accurately 'to the left of the right" and its up to the individual to do or to not do. The "not do's" painstakingly look at one second charts all day. Dumb Ass Texans...OOPS
Smart money is long.
Quote from ammo:
you wear your ego like a pimp hat,your making a fool of yourself http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tB2ZZgbmZ2U
__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?
Bud Fox
Wall Street
not trading it,not trying to start an argument,just pointing out a huge character flaw that's behind 99.9% of traders blowing out,you can get rid of it on your own or let the market kick it out of you,final answer,the wall listens better
Quote from ammo:
not trading it,not trying to start an argument,just pointing out a huge character flaw that's behind 99.9% of traders blowing out,you can get rid of it on your own or let the market kick it out of you,final answer,the wall listens better
Quote from jack hershey:
...snip
The cases in two line theory you mention also have two others. These are D max C and C min D. They are as important as the crossover.
...snip
Quote from jack hershey:
As you look at monitoring and analyzing several fractals, it is important to know where you are on your trading fractal.
The faster fractal is having three moves for each move on the trading fractal.
As you go through the succession of the 3:1 ratio, you see legs of the trading fractal more or less pause as the faster fractal is doing its non dominant middle leg. So at this time there is no crossover by the fast line of the slow line. There is convergence and a minimum and then divergence.
All of this tells you to hold through the non dom faster fractal move.
When using indicators to trade, once their defaults afford proper synchronization, then you can read several fractals on the indicators.
A very important thing is to mentally evelop the skills to "read" two line indicators as leading indicators. This skill is gained by learning the OOE of each fractal on the two lines; then you adjust the OOE to be read just as you add a phase angle to a sinusoid. Two line indicators have a lot of signals and each sunset applied to the OOE of each of the nested fractals.
... snip
26 Oct 2011 chart
Sample for a log.
How about this Jack
Am I the only one that can't get through one of Mr. Hershey's posts without litterally laughing out loud...?
Quote from masterm1ne:
Am I the only one that can't get through one of Mr. Hershey's posts without litterally laughing out loud...?
Quote from ammo:
not trading it,not trying to start an argument,just pointing out a huge character flaw that's behind 99.9% of traders blowing out,you can get rid of it on your own or let the market kick it out of you,final answer,the wall listens better
__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?
Bud Fox
Wall Street
Quote from frenchfry:
Yes, you are the only one.
But that's only because "the others" can't even get through.
__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?
Bud Fox
Wall Street
Quote from bwolinsky:
The feeling is mutual.
As far as this thread's concerned I have his strategy, and have backtested it. It will not ever pay off the national debt or profit anything close, because it is a mediocre excuse for a trading system ...
This thread seems to go nowhere. But, which one does?
wow, this thread is great training set for my ignore strategy.
Chaz Bono And Jennifer Elia Break Off Engagement
what does Jack think?
__________________
"Those that know ain't saying, and those saying don't know." - E. A. Neumann
A bear since 1958 and proud of it.
Quote from bwolinsky:
Whatever! I am thinking strongly about posting his system here, but I'd rather people work harder than realizing the rant is all you'd ever need to determine Jack Hershey's Fraud Method's validity.
Seek and you shall find. You won't ever get through to Jack Hershey because he is sly and cunning just like the Devil, and if the Devil's in the details you'd be shocked at how simplistic his method of trading is, and even if you don't want to recognize that I have produced backtests already on his method, I also know that it is out there for people to test themselves but they must do so with the right data and only the data in that epitaph.
Quote from RCG Trader:
I think is a bit harsh to say Jack the devil. Actually, his writing helped to greatly expand my knowledge base.
U are right his methods are simple, and nothing new, but he never said they were new. His way of communicating is similar to Gann. Easy, but only if you understand the paradigm under which he is writing.
B2R, R2B, how hard is that? Really?
__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?
Bud Fox
Wall Street
Quote from bwolinsky:
None of those acronyms mean anything to me, RCG Trader.
I only work with the fundamental elements of charts: hl, lh, br hh, br ll, and buy, sell, hold.
Quote from RCG Trader:
Then......why to you post to this thread??
__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?
Bud Fox
Wall Street
Quote from bwolinsky:
Because I don't like Jack Hershey.
He's a fraud, and if I lay out his system in simple perl code and give you datasets to backtest with, it astounds me anybody with that kind of evidence staring them in the face wouldn't try to discover whether he's the liar or any of the research I've done on his system can stand the test of time.
It will not, and every time I see him blather psychotically it just annoys me to the point that I will call him out on all of his lies and deceit.
The best case and point is the fool who thinks Hershey's system could ever pay off the national debt. That's false, and a myth perpetuated by Jack.
If you need to know anymore than I have to to tell you how well his systems work, then you can read his epitaph, otherwise, as far as clueless go the herd can follow Hershey, but I already know that it won't end pleasantly for those who do.
Quote from RCG Trader:
The same could be said about our mutual mentor.
My point is that Jack lays out the mechanics of the market. Will a person make 3 x the daily range every day? NO.
But in a recent newsletter from our mutual mentor, he made a multiple of the daily range. It can be done.
If Jack is fraud, okay. But he does not charge anything. If nothing else, going up his path would newbies what not to do. But almost everyone I have spoken with has derived a benefit from his writings.
The Hershey system itself is based on principles and not hard core rules. Markets are contextual. As time has gone on, I have realized this and come to understand that there is a degree of discretion even in the algo trader. The discretion in the algo trader comes from deciding which markets to apply his algo.
There are several thousand pages on Jack Hershey, he is up there with Gann insomuch as what has been written and how he polarizes people.
You might not like Jack, and that is okay, but I would not discount what he writes. It is a good mental exercise.
__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?
Bud Fox
Wall Street
Quote from bwolinsky:
I think Hershey would do the world a favor to feature his code before he dies, but since he probably will not, he will just have to pass as a character with a long history on elitetrader.
Quote from hkrahra:
I hope this will never happen
May he stay von Däniken for most of you.
__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?
Bud Fox
Wall Street
Maybe you can claim to make 5x's daily range with no loss.
If you never have to produce anything to make the claim, why not?
Hey, I wish everyone, trolls and cult, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
Want to see something very common? Context: Prior bar sentiment B, forming bar: SYM (V down) >> SYM (V up) >> FTP (V up) >> XB (V up) >> Spike down (V accelerate decelerate) >> XB (V down) till close. Figure out the rest. Nevermind if it does not make sense to you. Tikitrader, this is specially for you.
Don't try above if you are a beginner. Drill on MADA end of bar with nested parallelograms and Jokari Window and IBGS first. If it is still too hard and confusing, try PVT's stock selection and cross trading using quote sheet with 30-min Unusual Volume Correlation Table where all of the trading rules are clearly stated. SCT has no rules if you do not know.
TYVM, JH.
Quote from kurrawurra:
Far more common is Hershey cultists that can't show the money..
Quote from Paddler:
Hey, I wish everyone, trolls and cult, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
Want to see something very common? Context: Prior bar sentiment B, forming bar: SYM (V down) >> SYM (V up) >> FTP (V up) >> XB (V up) >> Spike down (V accelerate decelerate) >> XB (V down) till close. Figure out the rest. Nevermind if it does not make sense to you. Tikitrader, this is specially for you.
Don't try above if you are a beginner. Drill on MADA end of bar with nested parallelograms and Jokari Window and IBGS first. If it is still too hard and confusing, try PVT's stock selection and cross trading using quote sheet with 30-min Unusual Volume Correlation Table where all of the trading rules are clearly stated. SCT has no rules if you do not know.
TYVM, JH.
I guess you're strictly referring to swing trading quality stocks using Hershey's tweaked MACD and STO. Anyway, one should avoid being so definitive. It may not be the teacher's limitation, but the pupil's.
Quote from bwolinsky:
You know the more I hear that I don't understand Jack Hershey's method the more insulted I get.
I completely understand his method, but it's not as robust as he claims. ...
Quote from bwolinsky:
You know the more I hear that I don't understand Jack Hershey's method the more insulted I get.
Quote from MarketMasher:
Maybe you can claim to make 5x's daily range with no loss.
If you never have to produce anything to make the claim, why not?
Quote from baro-san:
I guess you're strictly referring to swing trading quality stocks using Hershey's tweaked MACD and STO. Anyway, one should avoid being so definitive. It may not be the teacher's limitation, but the pupil's.
__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?
Bud Fox
Wall Street
Quote from bwolinsky:
I have the method, coded the logic and backtested his theories on the only thing it works on: .SPX index options for s&p 500 only available at Fidelity in wealth lab pro. There's no other symbol that can make anywhere near the level of profit jhfm people claim.
Jhfm: Jack Hershey Fraud method.
Quote from kidPWRtrader:
Did you ever code the stock method as taught by Spyder? Hard to imagine an unprofitable variation of that simple system...
all i've noticed is that multiple alias guy and passing wind have nothing to contribute so they settled at critics to support a 2 year old's ego,condescension is one of the tools,porous at best,that's a compliment,merry xmas..p.s. i don't trade jack's method,might if i could understand,but we all have to find our way despite all of our shortcomings,so don't take any advice about it being over in this lifetime,b.s.ing,critiqueing pays nada,but it keeps the ego alive,lose that and judge not,you might have enough open mind left to stumble upon ...
sorry dude ,i'm not a writer
it's a simple channel trading method,it could easily work for the simplest of traders,if jack studied it for 20 yrs ,he would obviously be better at it than the new guy,that system works,after 20 yrs,i don't know how anyone could be broke or losing at it,i know you don't trade it,i just don't understand the obsession with jack,there is no way he could lose with that system
how many times and under how many alias's have you posted this..to what end ? http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...502#post3397502
http://www.cttm-kenya.com/docs/worm-parasites.pdf number one hershey follower.
I had a response about Spydertrader's scripts that was deleted.
Spydertrader's scripts were just watchlist generators, and had no entry or exit signals, so they weren't systems.
Jack Hershey Equities scripts on Wealth Lab were well known to that community, but never produced profitable trading results.
Since my entire explanation was the truth, I can see why it would be complained.
Jack Hershey's equities method does not produce profitable results, and never will.
The only method he has that works is on .SPX 5 minute index options bars, and cash cow is coded for all to see if you'd like to read Jack's Epitaph.
__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?
Bud Fox
Wall Street
Quote from bwolinsky:
I had a response about Spydertrader's scripts that was deleted.
Spydertrader's scripts were just watchlist generators, and had no entry or exit signals, so they weren't systems.
Jack Hershey Equities scripts on Wealth Lab were well known to that community, but never produced profitable trading results.
Since my entire explanation was the truth, I can see why it would be complained.
Jack Hershey's equities method does not produce profitable results, and never will.
The only method he has that works is on .SPX 5 minute index options bars, and cash cow is coded for all to see if you'd like to read Jack's Epitaph.
Quote from jack hershey:
Why ask rhetorical questions?
Your mother is a millionaire immigrant. you didn't learn from her and we explained to you why you cannot participate in the Tucson office.
Can't you recognize that blowinsky is doing the same thing you are? Phishing and phishing year after year.
The market has principles. They precipitate one pattern.
Any potential trader has but one task: to differentiate his mind.
This complete and full pair of two sets of inferences forms a one-to-one correspondence between observation (Monitoring) and Matching the sets(analysis).
Blowinski has bullshitted himself blind in all his posts.
Trading is simple; it is not rocket science.
Keynes.... Carnap......Mandelbrot.
HS plus the MS leads to a paradigm. Boolean Algebra is the application of Carnap logic theory. All the fractals are rigidly interlocked (you missed Mandelbrot's contribution)
U of A Finance Department bullshitted you blind; most education does simply because getting into the schools is a filtering process of like minds.
Blowinsky didn't even go to a school with any instructors who could think.
Look at the U of A Foundation annual report. They threw out the best money making subcontractor last year. Hayzeus!!! as the Hispanics would say.
Every day SCT makes a multiple of the margin within hours of open.
PVT is on a 4 to 5 day cycle these days.
Cramer's "pretty girls" took four months of his TA to tell him how late he was on point 3 of this Depression (last week some time he dumped the pretty girls).
Your mind is beyond that line in the sand: hang it up before you become "fixated" like blowinski and the B types here in ET. You are done. You decided to not do the work.
The mind works in one way only and there is no eraser.
You MUST do drills to get inference pieces. You did not do drills.
The mind arranges a spectrum of the infererence pieces. You have the incorrect pieces and you mind is powerless to arrange them forever.
If the spectrum has weaknesses, the mind poses questions. Notice you never have and meaningful questiions.
You ask a number one turd if he did something he couldn't do for anything related to trading. this is a meaningless example of your mind's condition.
this turd thinks trader666 did some backtesting. Hayzues!!!! You show you are a simpleton to and do not even know when somthing posted has no statistical significance. Do you even imagine Lo at MIT could calculate statistical significance at the behavioral finance center of MIT? No. no. Lo proves over and over that he cannot.
You are done. It is over for you in this lifetime. Get used to it. It is over for you.
I am being very kind to you in this post. Stop phishing and go away.
Quote from bwolinsky:
I had a response about Spydertrader's scripts that was deleted.
Spydertrader's scripts were just watchlist generators, and had no entry or exit signals, so they weren't systems.
Jack Hershey Equities scripts on Wealth Lab were well known to that community, but never produced profitable trading results.
Since my entire explanation was the truth, I can see why it would be complained.
Jack Hershey's equities method does not produce profitable results, and never will.
The only method he has that works is on .SPX 5 minute index options bars, and cash cow is coded for all to see if you'd like to read Jack's Epitaph.
Quote from kidPWRtrader:
Bwolinsky, I do not believe you have read Spyder's thread judging from this response.
The method most are trading, you havn't coded. I am sure someone has told you this before, but I want to point that out again because many guys are doing PVT and Spyder never claimed the watchlist generator was a system. But, he in fact did summarize the system in a one page post multiple times throughout both the first 2 threads.
__________________
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Bud Fox
Wall Street
Quote from nkhoi:
you need to do more promo only 60 bother to look at your script since '08
__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?
Bud Fox
Wall Street
Quote from bwolinsky:
....
You are a useless defender of a senile old man, nkhoi, and since you like to delete evidence what would have made your contribution much better as a moderator is to actually post the link to that thread. [/B]
Quote from nkhoi:
clear evident of you don't understand how ET works
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Bud Fox
Wall Street
Let's talk shop Jack ... This isn't a sleepy shop, no time for siesta.
We are open for business ... then fiesta.
Look in the Windows of the shop, everything on display
This is a cool place to window shop.
Would you mind to summarize it here? It really seems that you don't know what you're talking about.
Quote from bwolinsky:
... but that it got under your skin that I know so much about his method that I can't stand hearing Jack misleading other people. ...
Quote from TIKITRADER:
Let's talk shop Jack ... This isn't a sleepy shop, no time for siesta.
We are open for business ... then fiesta.
Look in the Windows of the shop, everything on display
This is a cool place to window shop.
I keep looking for sideways. Is it on the flip side of the cheatsheet?
Quote from Joe Doaks:
I keep looking for sideways. Is it on the flip side of the cheatsheet?
Quote from v34rm:
Please notice the Up/Down words , where are the left right .....hahahahaha..... Snake oil salesmen
Quote from TIKITRADER:
If it would have said increasing and decreasing the secret
would have been given out. Next time bring your secret decoder flashlight to class
Quote from v34rm:
My secret decoder
It is going Up as it goes along !!!!!!!
Quote from TIKITRADER:
ahead of the class ...
who knew ? Math is fun
Quote from baro-san:
Would you mind to summarize it here? It really seems that you don't know what you're talking about.
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Bud Fox
Wall Street
As I thought, you're not actually acquainted with Hershey's methods.
You're talking only about somebody else's initial learning experience of Hershey's method for swing trading high quality stocks. No SCT, and no first hand understanding of Hershey's price / volume based method.
From earlier in this thread:
Quote from bwolinsky:
There is no other method Jack has besides Cash Cow that's ever been published.
Since Jack likes to trade ES or has put up charts on ES or his followers have, the only symbol that method works on and in is .SPX at Fidelity.
That's the only method that makes a significant enough profit to warrant the banter whenever he talks.
As to the others, there aren't any other threads with backtested performance statistics or tradeslists, so I'm the only one, but others can see what the metrics looked like and until we have more backtests from the method it is futile to even engage a logical discussion about JHFM.
jack hershey
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 5597
11-21-11 01:58 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from MarketMasher:
I tried on some recent data but my curve doesn't look right.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/97/try01.png/
Shouldn't the curve go parabolic and then stay vertical?
Can you post your successful implementation so I can see?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Start slowly.
Use the one pager for PVT.
It takes about 15 minutes to run a year long test.
To exactly duplicate a past test by Worden Bros staff at TradersExpo, use their drag and drop (Bloxs) to get the logic. Then use a Universe that is available to you like a performance level Universe. Worden used the NAZ 100. They repeated the test since the results exceeded any test they had ever run. They calc'ed the usual stats as well. Sharpe was over 60.
Anyone can use the rules and a Universe. Notice the rules are on the one pager and the criteria for the Universe is stated in the thread that posted trades in advance and then the results for over a year in ET.
Also you can duplicate the failure Trader666 did. He screwed up in several ways as I noted in my critique of his testing failure. Also or even, his test had no statisitical significance it turned out. I do not think he knew this nor does anyone else who posts his faulty chart.
I have invented several trading applications of various paradigms. With regard to all the the above, blowinsky has not done any work so related.
He has examined only the first (beginner level of an approach coded as Cash Cow where I presented some of the intial logic. subsequent levels of Cash Cow were not made public. They are documenteed in a combo of text, charts, logic flow sheets and Excel logic flow sheets. Blowinsky has seen none of this work.
The Cash Cow was an exercise that we enjoyed doing and it was done to simply create an ATS that used indicators as inputs. All the indicators were customized by using synchronistic defaults for the fractals traded. In Wikipedia I was creditied with revising the MACD and other indicators to the modern world of the PC. Pring, for example, adopted them four years later.
For humor and character assassination reflection, there once appeared on ET a system that didn't work. It had the out of date MACD and used the wrong signal generation. Also the MACD was offset in time artificially. I made a serious mistake in relating to its creator in order to offer suggestions. The person never recovered from what he assigned as the weight of my suggestions (which he deemed criticisms for his own reasons (youth, ignorance, etc, etc...)). I did not make public my suggestions since I felt they might be misinterpreted. Indeed they were.
So in summary, you are not going to be sucessful in trading or creating ATS of various market trading approaches. You will also be unable to create tooling in the form of snippets that increase the degrees of freedom for market analysis. The reason for this limitation(s) you have permanently incurred, have to do with the beliefs you have decided, irreversably, to adopt. Such adoptions have occurred sans reasoning through their potential damaging consequences.
There are two aspects of the mind involved here. One is that the mind does not have an "eraser" function. The second, is that the mind ignores the negative in communicated information.
Walk carefully on the ice gives you one picture.
Don't fall down on the ice gives you another picture.
For trading, your beliefs cannot work to form rational systems of though any longer. Too bad for you.
A lot of this thread deals with Q and A an SCT, an application of PEP. Seamless Continuous Trading replaces the CW mind orientation of the financial industry. Related to markets, what I have designed and have as system is like a foreign language to CW financial industry followers. therefore, it is not likely nor probably possible for a person who has no mind development or mind building from doing work in SCT or PEP to be able to understand anything I espouse.
Covel is a prize example of this impenatrable wall he encountered as a consequence of his faulty belief system. Many people attribute my building the walls. What, in fact, is true is that the walls are carried by those who fail to process my communications. Thus, I get a benefit, that is unearned or at least not costly.
It can be very costly to a person whose mind has been closed for that person to pursue learning about anything he is no longer capable of entertaining.
The standard for accomplishment is the market's offer. All things are measured against this performance level. The term "unbelievable" is one that is used by people who use their personal standard instead of the market's standard. So those people have simply built an artificial and permanent barrier that keeps them out of the potential place of learning how to trade by learning how markets work. You are one of those people who is denied the opportunity to walk through the open door.
Having nothing much better to do in this slow market, as all 25 of my codes comprising some 1700 SLOCs are done, undone, redone, and overdone, I thought to aggravate the Hersheyites with this instructive little scattergram for their uninstructable little scatterbrains. It is the first 32 five minute bars of today's NQ close and volume connected progressively, starting with the lowest point in the chart. X-axis is volume, Y-axis is close. PV relationship? Kiss my ass! Looks more like my relationship with my inlaws.
Let me follow up with my concise view of Jack's contribution to ET. Jack will assert something provocative like "The moon is made of green cheese!" Well, strange, but you research it, and learn something about the true composition of the moon. Next Jack may claim that "The earth is flat!" OK, I'll try out that notion and see what I learn, and I find all the contrary evidence. I have been reading him for almost as long as he has been posting here. Thanks to him, I know a lot of things which are true about trading. And it is ungrateful but comprehensive to point out that few of those truths bear much resemblance to what he posts.
Quote from Joe Doaks:
Having nothing much better to do in this slow market, as all 25 of my codes comprising some 1700 SLOCs are done, undone, redone, and overdone, I thought to aggravate the Hersheyites with this instructive little scattergram for their uninstructable little scatterbrains. It is the first 32 five minute bars of today's NQ close and volume connected progressively, starting with the lowest point in the chart. X-axis is volume, Y-axis is close. PV relationship? Kiss my ass! Looks more like my relationship with my inlaws.
Quote from TIKITRADER:
Lsd is cool
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Bud Fox
Wall Street
Quote from baro-san:
As I thought, you're not actually acquainted with Hershey's methods.
You're talking only about somebody else's initial learning experience of Hershey's method for swing trading high quality stocks. No SCT, and no first hand understanding of Hershey's price / volume based method.From earlier in this thread:
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Bud Fox
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Quote from bwolinsky:
Particularly PVT and SCT were what was published by spyder in the wl4.wealth-lab forums.
It was not profitable. No matter where you backtest those methods there's no public backtest other than the one T666 publishes, and also matches the results I get when backtesting a portfolio simulation in Wealth Lab's Portfolio Simulator.
The explanation of cash cow by Scottd is there for you to code, but you'll need my data or even my version of Jack's program.
Baro-san, if you do have backtests please publish here.
PVT/SCT are one and the same method, published for the Wealth Lab community, but, as I said, was not found to be profitable.
Jack's Cash Cow is the only one that has published code, backtests, and tradeslists.
Quote from Joe Doaks:
With respect, the pure PV system without any indicators, relying only on crayola-ing, was IMO never sufficiently well defined to code and test it. Had it been, I would have done it. The real issue is not "does it work?" but "what the hell are the hard unambuggerous rules for it?"
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Bud Fox
Wall Street
Quote from bwolinsky:
The PVT was part of the Hershey Equities method that was coded for trading, and wasn't profitable, so crayola-ing can be done automatically with it but it does not have any ascending equity curves.
We seem to have a parallel exchange of opinions.
Quote from bwolinsky:
Particularly PVT and SCT were what was published by spyder in the wl4.wealth-lab forums.
It was not profitable. No matter where you backtest those methods there's no public backtest other than the one T666 publishes, and also matches the results I get when backtesting a portfolio simulation in Wealth Lab's Portfolio Simulator.
The explanation of cash cow by Scottd is there for you to code, but you'll need my data or even my version of Jack's program.
Baro-san, if you do have backtests please publish here.
PVT/SCT are one and the same method, published for the Wealth Lab community, but, as I said, was not found to be profitable.
Jack's Cash Cow is the only one that has published code, backtests, and tradeslists.
Quote from baro-san:
I'm almost sure that I can't convince you.
Successively applying google translation:
Understanding those laws, and having the ability to devise a way to extract money from the market requires an intelligence above average, and a lot of work to get into the appropriate mindset.
Verstehen diese Gesetze, und mit der Fähigkeit, eine Möglichkeit, Geld aus dem Markt zu extrahieren entwickeln erfordert eine überdurchschnittliche Intelligenz und eine Menge Arbeit, um in das entsprechende Mentalität zu bekommen.
Understand these laws, and with the ability, a way to extract money from the market to develop an above-average intelligence and a lot of work needs to get into the appropriate mindset.
Verstehen Sie diese Gesetze, und mit der Fähigkeit, braucht einen Weg, um Geld aus dem Markt zu extrahieren, um eine überdurchschnittliche Intelligenz und eine Menge Arbeit zu entwickeln, um in die entsprechende Einstellung zu bekommen.
Do you understand these laws, and with the ability, you need a way to extract money from the market for an above-average intelligence and to develop a lot of work to get in the appropriate setting.
Quote from baro-san:
We seem to have a parallel exchange of opinions.
Coding a set of rules is a craft. It doesn't require much intelligence.
Running a code over sets of data without knowing how to interpret it is useless, and it is hazardous to your bank account. Check what the hell happened!?!?
Discovering the laws of the market requires a genius.
Understanding those laws, and having the ability to devise a way to extract money from the market requires an intelligence above average, and a lot of work to get into the appropriate mindset. This is what can be reproached to Hershey: he misled people into believing that anybody can do it. In his defence, probably he really believes it.
You have to fully internalize the price / volume relationship, and apply it consistently. You can use various filters / crutches to help you in this process, but you have to understand both their functions and limitations, and not to blindly rely on them.
Automating this method may be compared to using automatic language translators. It's not enough to know the words, the grammar, even the style, you need the feeling of the language that even most human translators don't have.
I'm almost sure that I can't convince you.
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HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?
Bud Fox
Wall Street
Believe me: the truth escapes you at the moment. And, I'm not attacking you. Why should I?
Quote from bwolinsky:
No, you can't, because Jack's method is a joke. ... Again, you may respond by attacking a highly knowledgeable RIA Rep and CTA, or you can insert your backtests, with tradeslists and that will be enough for me to say one way or the other.
BTW, Baro-San, I am a savant, so don't tell me that I need to learn anything other than how to scientifically test his methods, because there's nothing formulaic but algorithms if there is by definition, a mechanical method of trading, that's somehow profitable. In many different topics around here the lack of backtesting means it's fraudulent, and if you don't understand that we can argue till I'm blue in the face, but not before I glow blue for you and tell you how finding out these answers for yourself is as much a journey to discover what's good for the soul as it is a way to prove genius one way or the other.
All it would take would be one day of live calls. Odds of that every happening, 0%.
Quote from Jack Nestle:
All it would take would be one day of live calls. Odds of that every happening, 0%.
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Bud Fox
Wall Street
Quote from baro-san:
Believe me: the truth escapes you at the moment. And, I'm not attacking you. Why should I?
__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?
Bud Fox
Wall Street
Now, you attacked me, in your usual manner, based on no first hand information, with the arrogance of a mentally limited person. You don't know what you're talking about. You're no savant, just a fixed minded and pretentious wannabe. I won't reply anymore, and my good will to help you open your mind is gone. In life you get, and you'll get, what you deserve. And obviously your remark about Hindus shows once more how you throw words about things you've only superficially heard. So who's obviously the noob?
Quote from bwolinsky:
Being the noob that you are, handling complicated tasks such as backtesting and opining about topics you have no experience with is the typical Hershey follower.
It's no different. You could put your backtests here, and that would be fine.
You don't have any, instead, choosing to avoid the issue of scientific evidence, basis, and facts, when what you've posited as your argument is no different than telling me about the idea of reincarnation for Hindus.
Quote from baro-san:
Now, you attacked me, in your usual manner, based on no first hand information, with the arrogance of a mentally limited person. You don't know what you're talking about. You're no savant, just a fixed minded and pretentious wannabe. I won't reply anymore, and my good will to help you open your mind is gone. In life you get, and you'll get, what you deserve. And obviously your remark about Hindus shows once more how you throw words about things you've only superficially heard. So who's obviously the noob?
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Bud Fox
Wall Street
http://truthdive.com/2011/12/23/for...-lady-gaga.html you go on and on about your immense I Q ,seems the only thing you accomplish is going on and on..on that list there are 10 Indians 29 and under,they probably stfu and applied themselves
Quote from ammo:
http://truthdive.com/2011/12/23/for...-lady-gaga.html you go on and on about your immense I Q ,seems the only thing you accomplish is going on and on..on that list there are 10 Indians 29 and under,they probably stfu and applied themselves
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Bud Fox
Wall Street
i dont program i don't test..this has been pointed out..the point being made is that you are full of it,backtest or not ,who gives a rat's ass,,you just keep digging a bigger hole for yourself,quit doing jump n jacks on ET,look at me,over here, me ,me, stfu and get to work,this is a trading site,not daycare,you are beau the boy,become beau the man ,grow up
Quote from ammo:
i dont program i don't test..this has been pointed out..the point being made is that you are full of it,backtest or not ,who gives a rat's ass,,you just keep digging a bigger hole for yourself,quit doing jump n jacks on ET,look at me,over here, me ,me, stfu and get to work,this is a trading site,not daycare,you are beau the boy,become beau the man ,grow up
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Bud Fox
Wall Street
Quote from bwolinsky:
You are correct, Mr. Nestle.
Have you thought about starting a new cult trading method?
Like Jack Nestle's Wonderful Chocolate Crunch method? Or how about Jack Nestle's Price Volume Obfuscation method? No? Call it something better, like Jack Nestle's NASCAR Racing Method?
Jack Nestle's call for calls method? Yeah, that's better.
Quote from ammo:
,you can get rid of it on your own or let the market kick it out of you,the wall listens better
Quote from ammo:
,you can get rid of it on your own or let the market kick it out of you,the wall listens better
__________________
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Bud Fox
Wall Street
Ok, the decoder flashlight has been placed on the window and it is revealing something different.
Window shopping with flashlights is never a good thing. It spooks the police.
They have no idea you are using the secret decoder flashlight.
They think otherwise.
Let's talk shop Jack still no siesta here. It's all work. The shop is open for business.
Quote from TIKITRADER:
Ok, the decoder flashlight has been placed on the window and it is revealing something different.
Window shopping with flashlights is never a good thing. It spooks the police.
They have no idea you are using the secret decoder flashlight.
They think otherwise.
Let's talk shop Jack still no siesta here. It's all work. The shop is open for business.
Quote from TIKITRADER:
Ok, the decoder flashlight has been placed on the window and it is revealing something different.
Window shopping with flashlights is never a good thing. It spooks the police.
They have no idea you are using the secret decoder flashlight.
They think otherwise.
Let's talk shop Jack still no siesta here. It's all work. The shop is open for business.
Quote from jack hershey:
I corrected your pic.
For those who wish to backtest, etc., please use the one pagers and the correct Universes.
For PVT, the Universe is explained over and over in many places.
If you set up the logic in Worden's Blox and run the NAZ 100, the sharpe the worden programmers got @ TradersExpo was over 60. We do not use the NAZ 100 but Worden did because they could not get a Universe.
SCT has a rather large application. Probably it is best to run about 85 instruments from all over the world. The result using a 5 min chart during only RTH, will be a multiple of the ATR as previously explained.
I'm sure by now, no one is phishing in order to reverse engineer the one pagers. Why would a person bother since the one pagers are clear concise and crisp?
If you are not able to backtest without changing the one pager rules, then do not expect what you did to work the way it works when a disciplined coding approach has been used.
As you can see here some people have beliefs systems that preclude their being able to trade successfully.
What I expect of a user of my approach is that a person supports the learning of others in using it. The reason for this is well known. When a person supports a learner, he learns more than his first time around.
I have also explained that a lot of people cannot learn this stuff. In turn, they explain exactly why they cannot learn it.
A few years ago I explained the mistakes other backtesters were making; you can refer to those explanations if you wish.
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Bud Fox
Wall Street
Quote from bwolinsky:
Jack, with all due respect, Sharpes greater than 60 are not possible over any length of period of time without peeking at data or using invalid trading assumptions with regard to fill logic.
Do you have the link?
Googling: Jack Hershey Traders Expo Sharpe 60
Only shows that result reported in this thread. Now you can either show me the pdf, or prove it on your own. I'm too smart to mess around even debating whether that's true, Jack.
Jack Thank you for the edit.
Window shopping in the holidays season is neat.
The holiday display in this window is a blast. Everything on display is at reach. All you have to do is enter the door .
Quote from jack hershey:
The Worden people didn't believe it either.
So they repeated doing the PVT one pager using Bloxs using the NAZ 100 for a year.
Guess what?
They got the same answer.
A larger group gathered.
Call Worden; save the search which didn't work for you.
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Bud Fox
Wall Street
Quote from bwolinsky:
Phone Number?
Quote from bwolinsky:
Phone Number?
I wound up behind bars in a Cell 4 - 1 - 4 - 1 - 2 - 3 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 1 - 4 - 1
I could be spending time in the wrong cell though
That's what I get for pointing a secret decoder flashlight in the window.
Jack,i got a Q regarding non-dom segments.Do you keep and monitor non-dom segments` indicators within one display or aside?
4 2 1 2, 2 4 3 4, 4 2 1 2 ____ 4212
2 4 3 4 , 4 2 1 2, 2 4 3 4 ____ 2434 ____4212
4 2 1 2, 2 4 3 4, 4 2 1 2 ____ 4212
Or not.
and I said something about jd's post. Now I'm hallucinating
P rice and V olume are independent variables ..... price can be Increasing , decreasing , flat ...... volume is always increasing ..... this is a proof that JH is full of ....you know what...
Quote from nkhoi:
spoon-fed mentality!!!
__________________
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Bud Fox
Wall Street
Quote from bwolinsky:
Worden's Blox doesn't return any phone numbers, and calling Trader's Expo wouldn't work either, so if you have a suggestion on how to arrange validating this third party claim, it is not spoon-fed mentality, but simple verification of such claims.
It does not surprise me that there is nothing online that cannot be found with google, and this exaccerabates the doubts I have about Jack's Methods further.
If you don't find it odd that this mythical backtest is nowhere online, or that Jack doesn't have any phone number to verify this absurd claim, then the loss is with Jack, and it's not that I prefer for it to be easy but making such claims without the proper documentation is fraudulent, so if you have this number, you can provide it, too, or else you'll continue to be part of this farce.
my approach to trading was always to spend time on finding what works and progress from there,i found market profile useful 26 yrs ago and have been fine tuning it since,if i had a system that was genius,making me 250k a day, i would be spending my time working on it,i think jack found channel trading 50 yrs ago and has been tweaking it since,if that's not your thing,i don't see why so many people spend time with something they find doesn't work,move on,you only have so many braincells to burn
Quote from v34rm:
P rice and V olume are independent variables ..... price can be Increasing , decreasing , flat ...... volume is always increasing ..... this is a proof that JH is full of ....you know what...
Quote from ammo:
my approach to trading was always to spend time on finding what works and progress from there,i found market profile useful 26 yrs ago and have been fine tuning it since,if i had a system that was genius,making me 250k a day, i would be spending my time working on it,i think jack found channel trading 50 yrs ago and has been tweaking it since,if that's not your thing,i don't see why so many people spend time with something they find doesn't work,move on,you only have so many braincells to burn
to follow up on fine tuning,jack didn't have the luxury of 1 minute ,5 minute bars 20 yrs ago,nor volume..a lot of stuff he is explaining is an add on to a previous ,more bulky,probably simpler interpretation of the market,it's hard enough to understand another persons explanation of what they are seeing,try compressing 50 yrs into a few posts on a thread where some traders still in diapers are rattling the bars in their crib,screaming for milk,now
Quote from MarketMasher:
I would have to agree with this.
It is not the responsibility of the person hearing a claim to prove anything. It is the responsibility of the person making the claim to prove it.
I can claim that I can jump 200 feet and then fly. Now you prove it.
That's the kind of approach that leads people to think that aluminum tubes looked at before the war in Iraq are for uranium enrichment rather than as rocket boosters.
It helps to approach these things with healthy skepticism...
Sadly, you missed the point. Try to pay better attention. Now, follow.
I just took a walk, jumped 200 feet, and flew in a radius of 3 miles.
I made sure to wear a red cape, so all who looked up would know it was me.
If you were not there to personally witness it, then I suggest you call around to ground control stations, as they very likely picked me up on radar.
I don't have their numbers offhand, so I suggest you do the legwork.
If not, I can only conclude you are too lazy.
Now, you follow?....
Quote from MarketMasher:
Sadly, you missed the point. Try to pay better attention. Now, follow.
I just took a walk, jumped 200 feet, and flew in a radius of 3 miles.
I made sure to wear a red cape, so all who looked up would know it was me.
If you were not there to personally witness it, then I suggest you call around to ground control stations, as they very likely picked me up on radar.
I don't have their numbers offhand, so I suggest you do the legwork.
If not, I can only conclude you are too lazy.
Now, you follow?....
Quote from jack hershey:
Even more sadly, you get to do the jump if you don't chicken out.
Look you came up with a shitty example and you didn't know it was shitty.
Do you trade like you don't think?
Why fuck with someone who is not as shitty as you are?
Look up the proofs.
language is the bastardization of thought,because jack's ability to turn thoughts into words is probably his weakest skill,add on several jargon condensers,it is hard to understand it the way he explains it,that only disproves his ability to explain,not the setup,now sit in his chair and try to take this handicap and re explain it ad nauseum to his critics,for free,and ya wonder why he bothers,his inability to convert thought into words,is offset by his overabundant charitable nature,i can't do the whatever the initials he calls it,but i've looked at it and it is definetly do able,i've used what i could understand and applied it to reading the market,so thanks jack
Quote from MarketMasher:
Sadly, you missed the point. Try to pay better attention. Now, follow.
I just took a walk, jumped 200 feet, and flew in a radius of 3 miles.
I made sure to wear a red cape, so all who looked up would know it was me.
If you were not there to personally witness it, then I suggest you call around to ground control stations, as they very likely picked me up on radar.
I don't have their numbers offhand, so I suggest you do the legwork.
If not, I can only conclude you are too lazy.
Now, you follow?....
Quote from ammo:
language is the bastardization of thought,because jack's ability to turn thoughts into words is probably his weakest skill,add on several jargon condensers,it is hard to understand it the way he explains it,that only disproves his ability to explain,not the setup,now sit in his chair and try to take this handicap and re explain it ad nauseum to his critics,for free,and ya wonder why he bothers,his inability to convert thought into words,is offset by his overabundant charitable nature,i can't do the whatever the initials he calls it,but i've looked at it and it is definetly do able,i've used what i could understand and applied it to reading the market,so thanks jack
Quote from hkrahra:
Jack,i got a Q regarding non-dom segments.Do you keep and monitor non-dom segments` indicators within one display or aside?
back in 07 when i 1st came on here he and spyder had a thread explaining it all,did'nt comprehend it then, it was me not the material,archive it,jack's got a lot of stuff on here if you want to dig thru and study it for 6 months it will probably sink in,it didn't appeal to me because i was already years into another style of trading,if you pm the mods ,they can probably find that thread for you ,save you some time ,it was a big one with a lot of ques and answers,not this only notice the dogshit while looking at the flower garden crap that's in all the hershey threads now
Quote from ammo:
back in 07 when i 1st came on here he and spyder had a thread explaining it all,did'nt comprehend it then, it was me not the material,archive it,jack's got a lot of stuff on here if you want to dig thru and study it for 6 months it will probably sink in,it didn't appeal to me because i was already years into another style of trading,if you pm the mods ,they can probably find that thread for you ,save you some time ,it was a big one with a lot of ques and answers,not this only notice the dogshit while looking at the flower garden crap that's in all the hershey threads now
) to be better than before!
Quote from MarketMasher:
Proofs?
Are you saying you entered an independently verifiable trading contest or something like that?
That's great! Ok - I will apologize when I see proof you won!
Quote from jack hershey:
In today's culture, most people are like you are. Mentally you are screwed most likely since you do not know how learning works and you do not know how the mind works.
Quote from jack hershey:
There are five single bar price patterns: Continue, end of continue, no trend, beginning of continue, and spike. You posted the long and short continue and the no trend (doji).
So the first thing a potential learner learns is how to use these five individual proce patterns. Hee learns how to do a complete trend, how to not trader until AFTER and end of trend and how to begin a hold at the beginning of a trend.
What helps him out in these matters? Volume leads price.
You are an example of a person observing markets as a pre beginner. Most people are like you so do not dispair.
So far you have concluded I am full of shit.
This is a common error made by pre beginners. Their basis of judgement is very sparse and often a result of a poor upbringing. See if you can remember if your dad said to shoot your mouth off as he does. See if you can remember if your mom said to be seen and not heard.
Here is what you failed to learn anywhere you could have been found.
Bars are not usually judged individually.
Since you still do this, I am interceding on your behalf with some more shit that I am full of.
Try for a short period to look at adjacent bars. Call them bar 1 and bar 2.
Volume is changing according to its relationship to the prior bar. Since one of my shittiest inventions is PRV, anyone can know almost imediately at the beginning of a 5 minute bar what the final volume will be. It is shown as a shadow behind the actual forming volume.
By knowing ahead of time, you can plan on doing an intrabar trade when price hits its extreme by using one of my more than 10 shitty price indicators. Thus you can carve turns to the tick at the change moment of any trend. Notice that you can draw the five individual bars and always see the bar that depicts the intrabar momnet of change.
There are many many things that I have never spoken of. They are an order of magnitude more shitty than the shitty things you currently misunderstand.
The gerunds of the paradigm's HS use MS's that deal with the adjacency mentioned in the HS's. As any fifth grader who is studying logic theory and paradigm theory and fractal theory.
A gerund is designated in a language. All gerunds are easily recognized. Their last letter is "g"; the next to last letter is "n"; and the next to next last letter is "i". If you knew more about adjacency, I could explain a gerund more easily.
Quote from jack hershey:
Ordinarily, I run two screens trurned 90 degrees so they are taller than wide. The right side is empty except for projections for price to fill within these boundaries. I anticipate mostly.
My trading platform is on another computer and screen. It has some leading indicators there, too.
Since I believe the trading fractal must be surrounded by a slower fractal and a faster fractal, there are three interlocking fractals on which Doms and non-doms are seen and annotated.
For leading indicators, which are numerical, I separate Dom and non Dom using "visual" separators. See Don Bright's post where he excludes this technique, apparently.
You can see a lot of my display on posts here (by others who use the same)
This computer is very very separate from my trading stuff. Most of those who are trying to intrude on my equipment come from the "stan" type countires; they fail.
As you see, anyone who is phishing is given the answers to their phishing. Mostly they are too screwed up mentally to process anything and they tell me this is the fact for them.
The most humorous foul ups so far were done by T666. Bow wow is a close 19th so far. Younger screw ups are now passing him.
You may remember some of the "stans" posting in their native scripts. The cultural differences and time zone shift make it very inconvenient.
To put it very simply, the trading does boil down to a one pager. building the mind is apparently the difficult part.
recently I tried to deal with level 2 elsewhere. the OP couldn't follow the drift, either.
Quote from hkrahra:
Thanks for the reply!
So the DOM is used for non-dom trades from the separate pulling the orders machine with some additional indicators,as i see it.Are these additional indicators some sort of a ratio of the indicators from your taller display,or another different kinds?
__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?
Bud Fox
Wall Street
Quote from MarketMasher:
Are you saying that the grammatical phraseology is akin to Tourette syndrome?
Ok, fine. But that isn't really the point either.
The point is claiming Iraq has Weapons of Mass Destruction (nukes, specifically) but offering no proof.
No, wait....that's not the point either......
The point is being too lazy to call around to Ground Control!
No, that's not it either.....
Something about making claims... or clams...............
__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?
Bud Fox
Wall Street
Quote from jack hershey:
There are many many things that I have never spoken of. They are an order of magnitude more shitty than the shitty things you currently misunderstand.
Quote from Peerlessfly:
COWARD.. once again Jack fails when it counts, the minute it moves from theory to practice both Jack and his methodology crumble and he resorts to lies and childish tantrums
As always Jack:
WHERE'S THE MONEY?
WHY ARE YOU SO POOR?
WHY ARE YOU IN DEBT?
WHY CAN'T YOU EXPLAIN OR PROVE YOUR METHODOLOGY?
WHY JACK?
Quote from Peerlessfly:
You just can't explain it because it doesn't work.. where's the money Jack?
Why are you poor and in debt if it works?
Why isn't there a single follower with money if it works?
Yeah.. you are a coward Jack, the worst kind, a moral coward
Jack, stop chatting with Crybaby28....just click complain and watch him disappear
_
Jack..."Hi Baron, we garnered 32 hits today re: my "method". Ha, they keep biting! So, send my commission to the usual address so it can not be tracked. Looking forward to another profitable year."
Quote from TIKITRADER:
_
Quote from bwolinsky:
BTW, Iraq did have weapons of mass destruction that we gave him and that's why we knew he had them. Suddam Hussein had mustard gas, and that is considered wmd, we also found tons of the stuff in underground bunkers, which was the smoking gun that started the war in the first place.
Quote from jack hershey:
It all comes down to one thing.
I'm a practicing coward who doesn't share everything freely and directly enough.
Quote from MarketMasher:
No, I specifically meant nukes.
"We don't want the smoking gun to become a mushroom cloud."
Remember that one?
They only repeated it a zillion times on tv and in print...
__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?
Bud Fox
Wall Street
mustard gas can be made in your kitchen mixing bleach and ammonia,arrest all american moms who have that under their kitchen sink,that mixture gets racoons and squirrel's out of your attic
Quote from ammo:
mustard gas can be made in your kitchen mixing bleach and ammonia,arrest all american moms who have that under their kitchen sink,that mixture gets racoons and squirrel's out of your attic
__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?
Bud Fox
Wall Street
Quote from ammo:
mustard gas can be made in your kitchen mixing bleach and ammonia,arrest all american moms who have that under their kitchen sink,that mixture gets racoons and squirrel's out of your attic
http://chemistry.about.com/od/toxic...And-Ammonia.htm
Attached is the relationship of Sharpe Ratio to both the market monitoring and analysis and to people.
I listed the theory authors for each principle which advances understanding the market and building the ATS's.
Worden's Bloxs is a drag and drop logic source.
The paradigm is done by deduction in a Scientific manner.
The rigid framework of the pieces is attained by using Mandelbrots "fractals" just as a snowflake is built from pieces.
Long before the PC, Granville and Dodd announced how markets work.
So PEP is the paradigm and in different markets there are different applications.
As to optimum fractals for trading, I settled on different ones for each application. There are about seven interlocking fractals to go from the granularity of markets to the econometrics of our culture. There is a one pager for each application. From the one pager, you can do the logic to have a reasonable ATS. Stats do NOT work as shown by T666, T28 and most others.
I have posted the set of characteristics of each application. The standard of comparison is the real market's offer.
Quote from jack hershey:
Attached is the relationship of Sharpe Ratio to both the market monitoring and analysis and to people.
I listed the theory authors for each principle which advances understanding the market and building the ATS's.
Worden's Bloxs is a drag and drop logic source.
The paradigm is done by deduction in a Scientific manner.
The rigid framework of the pieces is attained by using Mandelbrots "fractals" just as a snowflake is built from pieces.
Long before the PC, Granville and Dodd announced how markets work.
So PEP is the paradigm and in different markets there are different applications.
As to optimum fractals for trading, I settled on different ones for each application. There are about seven interlocking fractals to go from the granularity of markets to the econometrics of our culture. There is a one pager for each application. From the one pager, you can do the logic to have a reasonable ATS. Stats do NOT work as shown by T666, T28 and most others.
I have posted the set of characteristics of each application. The standard of comparison is the real market's offer.
__________________
Hypostomus Plecostomus (Not an alias)
Hypostomus enthusiastically endorses the products and services offered by E-Signal and Interactive Brokers, and will continue to do so until they pay me to stop.
The entire gang is out today in cahoots
Quote from TIKITRADER:
The entire gang is out today in cahoots
__________________
Hypostomus Plecostomus (Not an alias)
Hypostomus enthusiastically endorses the products and services offered by E-Signal and Interactive Brokers, and will continue to do so until they pay me to stop.
Quote from hypostomus:
When Old CootHoots speaks, out come the Old Cahoots.
The assurdity of Sharpe is this. I can pile conditioned probabilities ceiling high, take the trade of a lifetime for ten seconds for $20, and have an infinite Sharpe based on one trade. The true issues in trading are large sample expectancy, expectancy stationarity in the long haul, and scalability. I couldn't give a shit less what Sharpe is. And Jack has more serious assertions to be questionned on than that.
Quote from jack hershey:
Hi Hyp:
Good to see you posting.
I related how Worden's staff did the 60 plus Sharpe using the NAZ100 for a year.
A person from sunnyvale did a trading series for only 6 months but he did use a good universe and did an average hold of 6.6 days and made 11.1% a turn.
There is still some information missing in these examples.
During the beginning of my trading (1957) I had 1 out of 8 trades not go to completion because the one trade was an FBO.
at some point I began to do X over trades on stocks as a time compressor. It would be like using 3 phase 400cycle ac power and rectifying it to get a fairly smooth DC power source. Obviously if you could you would add an RLC network to polish off the job to the extent you wished. this would be a better dc Sharpe ratio dc.
In the chart I posted I showed how most beginneg stat users do backtesting on samples with timeouts for exits. That is what T666 did with a non selective anything goes non universe over five years.
we all saw that he did 24K trades and the lots averaged a 19 dollar loss. he was losing 500k and he took five years and lost an average of 19 bucks for each of his timeouts.
He didn't even get to the sweetspot for time outs and he didn't even know that. Bow wow hasn't understood T666's screwup in any way.
So there is a lot of humor on ET.
There is a guy testing RSI (7,1) and using a timeout. Are we supposed to just laugh or should we do some educating?
I posted a couple of posts on level 2. I have just gotten into the ball park so to speak on what used to be called "tape reading". There are 9 aspects of doing the warmup for learning to read the tape flawlessly. So why watch it since it can easily be coded and you get a sharpe ratio never seen on level 2. Should I drop down to the tick level and show how to carve turns to the tick while tape reading the level 2?
How much of the offer does a person have to take daily?
Since I problem solve and an dealing with a major world problem, I have tobe effective and efficient to get up to speed to solve the problem of PTSD. The military has decided to drop the D ..... lol But look at the larger non military part of the problem.
Anyway.... want to flesh out more of the opportunity?
ps. I needed the three apps to keep the capital in the markets. But the scalability (given the optimum fractal each has) is prettry neat on each app as they stand.
Body weight/height is an old Met Life thing for insurance data purposes.
Here is the problem with BMI if you are athletic...
"One variable BMI fails to consider is lean body mass. It is possible for a healthy, muscular individual with very low body fat to be classified obese using the BMI formula. If you are a trained athlete, your weight based on your measured percent body fat would be a better indicator of what you should weigh."
also info here
http://www.thirdplanetfood.com/weight.htm
http://www.halls.md/ideal-weight/met.htm
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BMI is still valuable for quick assessment of those who are not carrying a large amount of lean mass
Very good numbers for you jh @ 22
I personally come in overweight on the BMI scale although I have an athletic build Tall and lean.
Quote from jack hershey:
Hi Hyp:
Good to see you posting.
I related how Worden's staff did the 60 plus Sharpe using the NAZ100 for a year.
A person from sunnyvale did a trading series for only 6 months but he did use a good universe and did an average hold of 6.6 days and made 11.1% a turn.
There is still some information missing in these examples.
During the beginning of my trading (1957) I had 1 out of 8 trades not go to completion because the one trade was an FBO.
at some point I began to do X over trades on stocks as a time compressor. It would be like using 3 phase 400cycle ac power and rectifying it to get a fairly smooth DC power source. Obviously if you could you would add an RLC network to polish off the job to the extent you wished. this would be a better dc Sharpe ratio dc.
In the chart I posted I showed how most beginneg stat users do backtesting on samples with timeouts for exits. That is what T666 did with a non selective anything goes non universe over five years.
we all saw that he did 24K trades and the lots averaged a 19 dollar loss. he was losing 500k and he took five years and lost an average of 19 bucks for each of his timeouts.
He didn't even get to the sweetspot for time outs and he didn't even know that. Bow wow hasn't understood T666's screwup in any way.
So there is a lot of humor on ET.
There is a guy testing RSI (7,1) and using a timeout. Are we supposed to just laugh or should we do some educating?
I posted a couple of posts on level 2. I have just gotten into the ball park so to speak on what used to be called "tape reading". There are 9 aspects of doing the warmup for learning to read the tape flawlessly. So why watch it since it can easily be coded and you get a sharpe ratio never seen on level 2. Should I drop down to the tick level and show how to carve turns to the tick while tape reading the level 2?
How much of the offer does a person have to take daily?
Since I problem solve and an dealing with a major world problem, I have tobe effective and efficient to get up to speed to solve the problem of PTSD. The military has decided to drop the D ..... lol But look at the larger non military part of the problem.
Anyway.... want to flesh out more of the opportunity?
Quote from TIKITRADER:
Body weight/height is an old Met Life thing for insurance data purposes.
Here is the problem with BMI if you are athletic...
"One variable BMI fails to consider is lean body mass. It is possible for a healthy, muscular individual with very low body fat to be classified obese using the BMI formula. If you are a trained athlete, your weight based on your measured percent body fat would be a better indicator of what you should weigh."
also info here
http://www.thirdplanetfood.com/weight.htm
http://www.halls.md/ideal-weight/met.htm
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BMI is still valuable for quick assessment of those who are not carrying a large amount of lean mass
Very good numbers for you jh @ 22
I personally come in overweight on the BMI scale although I have an athletic build Tall and lean.
Quote from Thomas Jackson:
By all means do dig down deep. I miss the old Jack where trading was simple and without the last several years of overlays. Back then I found something useful once every few years. The concept of pace stuck, in an adaptation to four levels of pace on a one-minute chart. Very handy for knowing when to walk away or post on ET, and when to get serious. And all the time I wasted on codes chasing the will'o'thewisp of DJX leading SPX was put to good use on fast correlation analyses of related instruments. But our big difference remains that I am a simple Mendelian empiricist and you are a grand Aristotelian theoretician.
Quote from jack hershey:
Does that include that you predict and that I don't need to?
__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?
Bud Fox
Wall Street
Quote from jack hershey:
Putting on some height was my initial challenge. I sledge-hammered my ankles then knees and hips. Next I am going to do the tp of my head to get it to be more pointed.
ahhhhh to be young and handsome... crazy youth
Quote from jack hershey:
Does that include that you predict and that I don't need to?
Quote from Thomas Jackson:
Hahahaha! My scalps are over before I could begin to key them in. Two minutes is a loooooong trade for me.
Quote from bwolinsky:
Or that you don't need to ever make any live calls except to lose in the only competition you've ever competed in?
Quote from jack hershey:
Yes, exactly.
My stuff when posted was "unbelievable", so I don't do anything over and over expecting a different result. Look up the definition of insanity; you keep talking and expect a different result. See if you can cure yourself.
__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?
Bud Fox
Wall Street
Quote from bwolinsky:
Jack, if you have that backtest, I would love to see it.
At this point it is a figment of your imagination and grandiose exaggeration of your trading methods.
Quote from jack hershey:
It all comes down to one thing.
I'm a practicing coward who doesn't share everything freely and directly enough.
The anonymity of the internet emboldens people who have little or no idea about a subject to make sententious judgements and derogatory comments with no shame or reservation. Would you do it when you're among people you respect and you'd like to be respected by? If not, don't do it on the internet either!
Quote from v34rm:
You are practicing plagiarist.....!!!!!!!
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...187#post3374187
Quote from v34rm:
You are practicing plagiarist.....!!!!!!!
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...187#post3374187
The AshSniffer
Jack,
Can we talk more about this guy's little strange habits of sniffing the a**
That's a great post.
This is interesting and one of the coolest things you mentioned.
Quote from v34rm:
You are practicing plagiarist.....!!!!!!!
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...187#post3374187
Quote from jack hershey:
Okay, you bet on the future as you see it OODA is your ticket.
I do not. I carve the turns as they come from the future into the present on their events schedule. MADA. No noise. No anomalies. No probability.
Quote from hkrahra:
BOes of RTL is a complete noise!
Quote from TIKITRADER:
Wear earplugs... Won't be so loud nextime
Quote from hungunder:
So who has made any money from Jack's method in the last 10 years?
Quote from hkrahra:
I made when i dumped BOes of RTL.The rest of his method is working fine.
Thanks Paddler. I get it now! Why did Jack not put it so succinctly?
you guys are 2 dolts!
another dolt is 'humburger' who didnt get a SiNGLE bit of it!
Quote from jack hershey:
Murphy is a realtive newcomer as I told you the last round of your posting this under a differnt and expired alias.
I listed the people who's ideas I have incorporated.
I am not going to explain the shortcomings of Murphy's recently arrived upon the scene chart again.
You are talking out of your ass as usual; keep it up. I plagerized this sentence from someone else.
Quote from bmwhendrix:
Thanks Paddler. I get it now! Why did Jack not put it so succinctly?
It's called sarcasm.
I'm bored this morning, so I will offer this to the newbies.
Volume is to price as gas is to a car.
Volume is to price movement as the gas pedal is to the speedometer.
Jack and is followers make the childish leap in logic to:
Volume and price are to directional movement as
gas and gas pedal are to a car's direction.
The childish mind accepts this, but it is absolutely wrong.
The steering wheel is not in this equation.
That is why they are not profitable.
Lacking the ability to comprehend this flawed logic, they struggle to justify/prove it is correct. Something like: You just need the correct fractal to see the correlation . Then you must understand the proper placement of that revealing fractal in the overall picture. They diagram out their flawed logic, but the childish mind is not able to transcend beyond the flawed premise.
Simply put, many things can affect volume and many things can affect price movement. Sometimes they plot so as to appear as supporting correlations, but alas, like tick, trin and a host of other byproducts, the predictive element does not present itself as the childish mind thinks it should.
There is only one truth that is needed.
Ok, this should garner a new response from a child mind, perhaps a new diagram or a "you hurt my ego" pseudo intellectual rant.
Hope you all have a Happy New Year.
Quote from bmwhendrix:
It's called sarcasm.
I am always open to helpful info, just not much into fiction these days.
Let 2012 be the year when all Hershey's followers see the LIGHT! And his detractors too! Happy New Year!
Pinky says:
"You have to become motive with the momentum, because there is a moment when the momentum starts momentuming, and then becomes momentus. At that moment, there is a momentary motion where the momentum alters in momentum and that is the crucial moment."
And
`Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.
That is all.
Happy New Year to everyone except those who don't want one!!
It's Pinky and the Brain, Brain, Brain, Brain, Brain, Brain, Brain....
Wiff the ass sniffing inch worm says :
Happy New Year Pinky ,
Happy New Year Everyone !
Quote from bmwhendrix:
It's called sarcasm.
More messages deleted by the worthless mod, nkhoi.
__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?
Bud Fox
Wall Street
Quote from bwolinsky:
More messages deleted by the worthless mod, nkhoi.
Quote from nkhoi:
I will say it again you are ignorant of how ET works.
__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?
Bud Fox
Wall Street
A sincere Happy New Year to you Jack .
Thanks for the many years of posting your method.
All the best .
hi tiki!
yeah,me too.have a nice year, Jack.spend time wisely.
Quote from baro-san:
Let 2012 be the year when all Hershey's followers see the LIGHT! And his detractors too! Happy New Year!
Quote from hkrahra:
hi tiki!
yeah,me too.have a nice year, Jack.spend time wisely.
Jack, is there an ideal between 1 -2 2- 3 to define the terminal point.
I am talking about the southern hemisphere where grains of sand build castles some of which have towers of varying heights that rise from moats that can be easily crossed when levels are low.
It is from the highest of castle peaks of which the forests can be seen clearly and a change in paths can be mapped to follow. It is here to witness tens of thousands of knights fall and a few witty men will survive.
Climbing from tower to tower can be achieved by determining the ideal lengths of hair.
Beware of the imp that spins gold... a confused drinker is he
Happy New Year everyone.
Be cool.
Jack, is there an ideal % to define the terminal point.
Everybody missed that my post clarifying the point of jumping 200 ft and flying included a classic movie line...
I precede and end with "You follow?..."
That's right out of THE STING!!!
When the Robert Shaw character talks to the Redford character, he adds that line afterward.
It's fkin' BRILLIANT writing, because with 2 words he makes you HATE him immediately for being such a pompous ass!!
Based on the reaction it got, I'd say it works! Fkin' BRILLIANT writing!!!
Quote from TIKITRADER:
Jack, is there an ideal % to define the terminal point.
Quote from hkrahra:
Tiki,did you solve that 3 towers theorem?I think the problem is not in towers.The key is in the GATE!
you can count on a drawbridge that before the gate as well.
btw i think Jack is hiding in the tower #3,and he usually lift that drawbridge before the sundown...
...or when you ask him a question...
"Ya Follah?"
Fkin CLASSIC!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DuGMTMSfmY
Quote from hkrahra:
you can count on a drawbridge that before the gate as well.
btw i think Jack is hiding in the tower #3,and he usually lift that drawbridge before the sundown...
...or when you ask him a question...
* PrP
* DOM Worm
* Castle towers,motes, gates, drawbridges, forests, and ????
FTT to FTT long
"""The first event is the open, the second event is the beginning of the midday lull. The last mentioned event was a described event that ends the midday lull. Market PACE is involved and those with lessor skills and knowledge are ineligible to trade during some periods."""
Jack, do you change the displays at each event,like i change my ancient socks at noon and in the morning?
Quote from Panlipsonam:
As always..
or STFU
__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?
Bud Fox
Wall Street
Losa.. You lost you panny with sct,I see...
"""""""Since I believe the trading fractal must be surrounded by a slower fractal and a faster fractal, there are three interlocking fractals on which Doms and non-doms are seen and annotated.""""""""
Can anyone please bring an example of one on one corresponding annotation of Doms and non-doms on three fractals?I especially would like to know how slower to trading fractal relationship.
Jack,teach me tonight,baby.
Quote from hkrahra:
"""""""Since I believe the trading fractal must be surrounded by a slower fractal and a faster fractal, there are three interlocking fractals on which Doms and non-doms are seen and annotated.""""""""
Can anyone please bring an example of one on one corresponding annotation of Doms and non-doms on three fractals?I especially would like to know how slower to trading fractal relationship.
Jack,teach me tonight,baby.
Quote from bmwhendrix:
Backtesting
Observation
Makes sense
Commonly stated, but basically flawed. Attracts the mentally weak.
Quote from bmwhendrix:
Why is it that you "believe" that the trading fractal must be surrounded by a faster and slower one?
Backtesting?
Observation?
Makes sense?
I am asking seriously, since this is a commonly stated concept.
Quote from bmwhendrix:
Attracts the mentally weak.
Thanks for the response. The problem that I have with this is that it assumes that the slower fractal will continue. You enter on the faster fractal, but find that the trading fractal is actually signaling a reversal on the slower one. You lose. This happens as often as does continuation on the slower fractal. or a fake on the slower fractal.
Think about it. How many moving average systems have used this concept, or others with various indicators. As long as the slower one is moving in a general direction in a relaxed manner, and you are not constantly stopped out on the faster fractal, it works for a while.
But eventually things go sideways, or chop on the slower fractal, and it all goes to hell. Think about it.
Quote from bmwhendrix:
Thanks for the response. The problem that I have with this is that it assumes that the slower fractal will continue. You enter on the faster fractal, but find that the trading fractal is actually signaling a reversal on the slower one. You lose. This happens as often as does continuation on the slower fractal. or a fake on the slower fractal.
Think about it. How many moving average systems have used this concept, or others with various indicators. As long as the slower one is moving in a general direction in a relaxed manner, and you are not constantly stopped out on the faster fractal, it works for a while.
But eventually things go sideways, or chop on the slower fractal, and it all goes to hell. Think about it.
Jack,don`t you know i`m still standing better than i ever did?
Looking like a true survivor,feeling like a little kid.
Where is my 5 books suit godamit!!!
Two more reasons why the system is flawed:
One: Fractals morph. What you may be calling the slow fractal today, with say a given level of volatility, range, volume, etc. may have morphed into your trading fractal or some other in a month or 2. Think about it. This is why moving average systems do not work, because the "proper" ma is always changing as the fractals morph.
Two: There is indeed chop on all fractals, remember that they morph.
Think about this. The market does not always know what it wants to do. There are times that there is not a majority of the market players
with a given bias. The market is just people, not an elaborate equation slowly unveiling itself. In these times the random element of movement which is always present to some degree becomes more pronounced. Think about it.
Just trying to keep you and others from wasting your time. That is all you really have in life.
My work is done. Good luck.
Quote from bmwhendrix:
Just trying to keep you and others from wasting your time. That is all you really have in life.
Pinky is reciting from memory.....
Gather ye rosebuds while ye may,
Old time is a-flying,
And this same flower that smiles today,
Tomorrow will be dying.
The glorious lamp of Heaven, the sun,
The higher he's a-getting,
The sooner will his race be run,
And nearer he is to setting.
That time is best which is the first,
When youth and blood are warmer,
But being spent, the worse, and worst
Times still succeed the former.
So be not coy, but use your Time,
And while ye may, go marry,
For having lost but once your prime,
Ye may forever tarry.
Quote from bmwhendrix:
Two more reasons why the system is flawed:
One: Fractals morph. What you may be calling the slow fractal today, with say a given level of volatility, range, volume, etc. may have morphed into your trading fractal or some other in a month or 2. Think about it. This is why moving average systems do not work, because the "proper" ma is always changing as the fractals morph.
Two: There is indeed chop on all fractals, remember that they morph.
Think about this. The market does not always know what it wants to do. There are times that there is not a majority of the market players
with a given bias. The market is just people, not an elaborate equation slowly unveiling itself. In these times the random element of movement which is always present to some degree becomes more pronounced. Think about it.
Just trying to keep you and others from wasting your time. That is all you really have in life.
My work is done. Good luck.
Quote from hkrahra:
Up to seven fractals,as Jack droped elsewhere.
No,there is never a chop on the slower ones.NEVER.
fitty cent there tupac
Quote from TIKITRADER:
fitty cent there tupac
All this fractal talk has me thinking of the lazy man's trend detection method: 10 EMA, 50 & 200 SMA and price position with respect to each.
It's all pretty much the same idea: trends within trends. Ripples within waves within tides.
You don't have to train like a zen buddhist or a ninja to use MA's, however.
Quote from Wide Tailz:
All this fractal talk has me thinking of the lazy man's trend detection method: 10 EMA, 50 & 200 SMA and price position with respect to each.
It's all pretty much the same idea: trends within trends. Ripples within waves within tides.
You don't have to train like a zen buddhist or a ninja to use MA's, however.
Quote from hkrahra:
From one fractal on CL i see M1 is established,M2 would probably be around .60 cents.Is .60 enough?I think so.Ask NoDojic
Does anyone know what the Hershey hinges are??
fagot get lost fagot.no one wants you anymore,fagot!
Quote from hkrahra:
Does anyone know what the Hershey hinges are??
Quote from Paddler:
Imagine you hold a OHLC price bar in front of a mirror. In a Hershey Hinge of a pair of adjacent bars, the price bar you see in the mirror is like the adjacent bar and the bar on your hand is the prior bar.
Hershey Hinge is in most cases a very strong signal that fast fractal sentiment has changed. The why is that during the mutation of adjacent bar of Hershey Hinge, Intra Bar Gaussian Shift IBGS has occurred.
QED
[/B][/QUOTE]
Quote from Hasparahte:
"Rocket" equity curve:
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/attac...&postid=1112121
"P,V Boolean relation" equity curve:
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/attac...&postid=1278986
Quote from hkrahra:
wtf!
Quote from Paddler:
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/attac...&postid=2356299
.
Quote from Paddler:
.
Quote from Paddler:
.
Quote from hkrahra:
Your ftt isn't correct on the pic.The second bar is ftt.
Look at the fast fractal LTL and think.
But in this case the hitch is one bar,
Maybe, for beginners. When you are more conscious and sharp, you want to look at the volume changes inside the Hitch to KNOW whether you have a change of sentiment or bar-equivalent (no change of sentiment).
BTW do not be too rigid. OB, stitch, or translated adjacent bars can form a HH too.
so the ftt mark should be placed in the middle.
Any reason not P V-related is not a good reason.
Quote from hkrahra:
Volume at a trough,after peaking,correct?
I'm working on multifractal display now btw
Quote from hkrahra:
Your ftt isn't correct on the pic.The second bar is ftt.But in this case the hitch is one bar,so the ftt mark should be placed in the middle.
Quote from jalokialaz:
You are getting slaughtered..
Nope.
and now you are so frozen you can't pull the trigger on Jack's river of shit because you don't trust it.. that's why you can't show the money
Nope. Trading is easy and almost certain.
Don't worry, we've seen this before many many many times over and over and over again
You are limping down a well worn path
You can keep fucking dreaming. Loser, we all know that you are talking about yourself.
Quote from flipbidask:
Ha ha.. ...p
'Skilled' in English perhaps?
Quote from flipbidask:
And you are not skill in English Dave.. otherwise.....
Quote from flipbidask:
Ha ha.. Piddler packed up his ball and went home after the early year culling of the Jackobites..
Trust Mr Market to finally get the message across
Quote from Bangonright:
Ha ha.. you losers are getting slaughtered and have shut up shop
And poor old Piddler is so shell shocked and frightened he's turned off his PM's because evidently I get to him
Quote from RCG Trader:
You don't get to anyone, you pitiful nutbird
Price and Volume relationship at TL, check it out. Been on the front page for years
Quote from Paddler:
.
Quote from d08:
That's just basically a modified engulfing, a very common candlestick pattern if you had done any reading. It has little to no edge when backtested, next you will talk about me needing to apply some Hershey magic methods which cannot be tested, don't bother.
and yet it still doesn't work, isn't it funny?
Quote from RCG Trader:
You don't get to anyone, you pitiful nutbird
Price and Volume relationship at TL, check it out. Been on the front page for years
Somebody's trash is another's treasure.
Nebuchadnezzarand yet it still doesn't work, isn't it funny?
RCG Trader:
You don't get to anyone, you pitiful nutbird
Price and Volume relationship at TL, check it out. Been on the front page for years
Price and Volume don't work?? Hmmm, I better re-evaluate my last 14 years of trading then! LOL
Quote from Nebuchadnezzar:
and yet it still doesn't work, isn't it funny?
I DON'T trade anyone's method but my own, but I use price and volume. I cannot speak for Jack and have no idea who "todd" is but I have been trading since 1998 and certain price and volume sequences work just the same then as they do now.
You'll have to investigate on your own. Not saying it's easy, but consistent and tradeable sequences are there, each and every day.
Quote from Nebuchadnezzar:
the argument you, jack and todd present is silly: " I say that I am making money, therefore it is true".
my argument has more substance: "Check all the charts posted on ET and TL, the annotations on them anticipate what is coming next on the following day based on trader's resolution. Every single one of them including those posted by todd fail to anticipate the correct order of events. Therefore none of you people can correctly identify p1, p2 and p3 on any fractal. The argument that anybody is making money with it is silly.
for years people wanted real time calls from hershey or his herd, it is silly to ask for those when one can simply take the charts posted and degap them, -- the anticipated order of events never follows
therefore none of you assholes make any money
QED
Somebody's trash is another's treasure. [/QUOTE]lets agree to disa gree on everything except the simple truth of the matter: " If the trader is not capable of identifying where they are in the order of events on their respective trading fractal,- they are not gonna make money"
Quote from baro-san:
and yet it still doesn't work, isn't it funny?
removing my posts i see,, -- that'sreally silly
lets agree to disa gree on everything except the simple truth of the matter: " If the trader is not capable of identifying where they are in the order of events on their respective trading fractal,- they are not gonna make money"
Quote from Nebuchadnezzar:
Somebody's trash is another's treasure.
the trader annotates his chart with b2b upon the market has reached a certain point in the order of events, what follows does so always and without exception.
Quote from Nebuchadnezzar:
lets agree to disa gree on everything except the simple truth of the matter: " If the trader is not capable of identifying where they are in the order of events on their respective trading fractal,- they are not gonna make money"
If you are willing to accept this simple truth a priori , then go find some consecutive charts posted by todd and try to find one where r2r or b2b from the previous day was followed by 2b2r or 2r2b on the next day.
After completing this simple drill, if you are still convinced there may be some treasure in this garbage, then I failed to communicate
the trader annotates his chart with b2b upon the market has reached a certain point in the order of events, what follows does so always and without exception.
Quote from Nebuchadnezzar:
lets agree to disa gree on everything except the simple truth of the matter: " If the trader is not capable of identifying where they are in the order of events on their respective trading fractal,- they are not gonna make money"
If you are willing to accept this simple truth a priori , then go find some consecutive charts posted by todd and try to find one where r2r or b2b from the previous day was followed by 2b2r or 2r2b on the next day.
After completing this simple drill, if you are still convinced there may be some treasure in this garbage, then I failed to communicate
my ash is OFFFFF!!!
It seems that you use anticipated with a different meaning that I'd use it in relation to Hershey's method. Maybe here's gist of our different experiences with this method. As you say that you see the same thing on all his charts, it should be easy for you to post a two day example where the sequence failed.
Quote from Nebuchadnezzar:
... with that in mind examine todds charts for consistency
and ask yourself
the person claims to be able to do such and such tasks, and yet the charts posted indicate quite the opposite
in fact locate all his charts and see if any b2b's or r2r's were followed by the anticipated market action on the next day
I called the low in the morning today using the PinkyBlue.
Did anyone see the sell-off that happened 2 days ago coming?
Pinky did.
I don't have time to post charts, but I say so, so believe it.
Not sure if it was done yet, but I can fully automate it.
Ninja 7 allows access to multiple instruments within the same strategy/indicator.
Someone need to list the exact rules. I have ES 5 min data going back to March 2007. So we can back test it, and once and for all give the answer if it works or not.
Just too much hype about this topic over the years.
Quote from RedDuke:
Not sure if it was done yet, but I can fully automate it.
Ninja 7 allows access to multiple instruments within the same strategy/indicator.
Someone need to list the exact rules. I have ES 5 min data going back to March 2007. So we can back test it, and once and for all give the answer if it works or not.
Just too much hype about this topic over the years.
Quote from RedDuke:
Not sure if it was done yet, but I can fully automate it.
Ninja 7 allows access to multiple instruments within the same strategy/indicator.
Someone need to list the exact rules. I have ES 5 min data going back to March 2007. So we can back test it, and once and for all give the answer if it works or not.
Just too much hype about this topic over the years.
Quote from RedDuke:
Not sure if it was done yet, but I can fully automate it.
Ninja 7 allows access to multiple instruments within the same strategy/indicator.
Someone need to list the exact rules. I have ES 5 min data going back to March 2007. So we can back test it, and once and for all give the answer if it works or not.
Just too much hype about this topic over the years.
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The exact rules should be easy enough for someone who really knows the system to lay out.
Ever read "Street Smarts" by Raschke and Connors? It's several bullet points per setup (usually they give the Buy-side rules and just say "reverse for shorts").
For instance, because I know the PinkyBlue code, I could articulate very concisely what the rules are.
So it will be really interesting to see how the experts in the JH system pitch in and show the world some Awesomeness!!
They will not. They prefer to support learning simply by claiming 3X ATR daily like paddler and such
Quote from MarketMasher:
So it will be really interesting to see how the experts in the JH system pitch in and show the world some Awesomeness!!
Quote from RedDuke:
Not sure if it was done yet, but I can fully automate it.
Ninja 7 allows access to multiple instruments within the same strategy/indicator.
Someone need to list the exact rules. I have ES 5 min data going back to March 2007. So we can back test it, and once and for all give the answer if it works or not.
Just too much hype about this topic over the years.
Quote from Nebuchadnezzar:
The rules are very simple: enter on ftt, monitor for change or continuation on your trading fractal, reverse if what must come next doesn't, add contracts as needed, wash , rinse, repeat, teach others to make 3 times daily range. Those rules are the ones that you need to hear as opposed to those that you want to hear.
Stop phishing.
Do the work.
a little correction, I thought American usually goes for oak tree for this kind of talk, as far as banana goes;
Yes Bananas have vestigial seeds(non-productive), If you slice it in half you will see the little specks(seeds) in the middle.
Bananas do not grow from those seeds though, they grow from off-shoots of existing banana plant roots.
now back to regular program.
Vedas wasn`t invented,it was hand written by Srila Vyasadeva ~~5000 years ago in Bhadarikashram(3800m),as it was a 'vestibule' of the Kali Yuga - degradation age.In the past Yugas(epoches) there was no need to write Vedas as the people had an excellent memory,and now we can`t remember what was a minute ago.So it was written specifically for the degenerates like us in Kali.
http://atma.in.ua/news_cont.php?id_news=52
If you are interested,this man(Atma) is forming a group to India (Bhadarikashram among them, btw) in september.Or you can find a similar at your location,i believe.
Please mods,delete this post.I apologize,it is not an ads.
''And yes having an excellent memory is an advantage. I memorized the the logic systems for the 701, 702 and 705. This menant I could trouble shoot mainframes in final tests by directing techies to the correct pluggable unit to make repairs. I reduced the RAM drive testing to 2 1/2 hours off MF instead of 2 1/2 days on MF.''
There is an answer for this,too.It is all about your Karma.You then seems did a lot of pious deeds in your previous lives.The Samskara(experience,impressions from the previuos lives)always point you to the correct way.Mine however is not.LoL, well,lets say not aIways.I have some folks that i considered dumb in the past,but they prosper and cool.t`s not about me dumb and you smart.It`s more about who deserves what.
''What you say is probably true. I never keep anything, but rather, give it away.
Our trip around the world involves 6 couples. Picking up the tab is not a concern for me since I just continue to extract capital from markets to solve problems.
We had a get acquainted diner in early Feb..... It was so cool for them to be meeting each other. The itinerary was something they all appreciated in terms of personal life goals.
the dumb/smart is not in my space too much. It just happens and being in balance is where its at.''
Vedas say so.I recognize its authority and am trying to obey its instruction.Not always i can do so,since i`m a Kali degen child,but this is an excuse and i shouldn`t think so!LoL...
There is could only one problem be that needs to be solved.To get back Home.Though if you can solve some interim,less important problems on the road,and you do so to help people - Ki Jai to you!!!
''...and the many fractals of the market are perfectly interlocked using the SINGLE PATTERN....the middle P's are an overlapping identity.''
may i ask one question?are there ALWAYS ABC formation on both ends of the overlap?
Quote from ocean5:
the dumb/smart is not in my space too much. It just happens and being in balance is where its at.''
There is could only one problem be that needs to be solved.To get back Home.
Quote from MarketMasher:
We all end up back home. And calling other people dumb is to call yourself dumb. Don't you remember?
Quote from ocean5:
Oh,Pinky...hi!Unfortunately,not all.Devine Shakti is not a cheap.But being in this rude shell called ''a body'' is a terrific chance for us.Imagine 8M forms of life out there.
Quote from baro-san:
This sounds like a phishing email I just received:
Quote from RedDuke:
Dude,
Unless you being sarcastic (use of similes helps), you are a bit paranoid. It is a publicly listed method, and I have no interest in collecting all the rules/nuances, but willing to code to prove its validity.
redduke
DUDE
Here is an excellent article! Excellent because it does NOT contain the question, "Does your guru want TO RULE THE WORLD?"
So Pinky and the Brain are both definitely NOT presenting themselves as gurus. At a score of 0, they are more like Mother Theresa...
However, because of their modesty, we know them merely as, Pinky and the Brain, Brain, Brain, Brain, Brain, Brain, Brain....
--------------------------------------------------------------
Does Your Financial Guru or Doomster Resemble A Cult?
By Cassandra Does Tokyo
Does your financial Guru or Doomster resemble a cult? To satisfy your curiosity, it might be worth taking simple test
that will give you an idea whether what you thought was innocent objective altruistic financial advice and unbiased analysis
is actually something more nefarious that wants to control your mind, your trades, and empty your bank account.
1. Does your Guru always make out like he’s right?
2. Does you Guru paint a picture that the other [non-disciples] are always wrong?
3. Is there any exit from the Guru’s philosophy without following the philosophy?
4. Does the Guru’s group use its own “Cult-speak”?
5. Does “group-think” dominate, suppressing dissent and enforcing conformity of thinking?
6. Is Guru’s advice irrational at times, contradicting previous or other tenets of Guru advice?
7. Does Guru’s philosophy suppress disbelief?
8. Does Guru’s philosophy denigrate competing ideas, schools of thought, and other Guru’s?
9. Does Guru make personal attacks upon critics?
10. Does Guru believe non-followers need “fixing”?
11. Does Guru insist that his interpretation is the only correct way?
12. Does Guru and his disciples make you feel that by following you are “special”?
13. Is Guru’s philosophy an unquestionable dogma, sacred science, or infallible ideology?
14. Does Guru’s philosophy appeal to perceived unquestionable authorities ?
15. Does following Guru confer a feeling of “instant community”?
16. Is your Guru inconsistent and does he speak contradictory messages?
17. Does your Guru use personal testimonies of the success of earlier converts to validate advice?
18. Is your Guru self-absorbed?
19. Are there potential dual purposes, hidden agendas, ulterior motives, in Guru’s advice?
20. Does your Guru readily admit when he is wrong?
21. Does your Guru undertake deceptive recruiting and/or aggressive promotion?
22. Does your Guru’s ideas implant phobias and self-doubt into your psyche?
23. Is Guru and his disciples money grubbing?
24. Are you pressured to change your beliefs and adopt the Guru’s beliefs?
25. Does your Guru hold ideology and dogma higher than experience, probability and logic?
26. Does your Guru ascribe unexplained or contrary events to mystical manipulation?
27. Does your Guru demand your faith, trust (and money?)
28. Does your Guru use thought-stopping language and thought-terminating cliches and slogans?
29. Does Guru use affiliate front groups, hidden promoters, or disguised propagandists?
30. Does your Guru imply his belief equals truth?
31. Does your Guru make use of double-binds?
32. Is your Guru held accountable for his performance?
33. Is your Guru a charismatic leader?
34. Does your Guru prevent you from trusting you’re own mind?
35. Does your Guru claim to have the panacea for market problems or all market conditions?
36. Does your Guru see he world through permanently tinted lenses?
37. Does your Guru make you think you can’t make it without his advice?
38. Does your Guru use unchallengeable sources of information?
39. Does your Guru inflate his experience or make bombastic grandiose claims about performance?
40. Does your Guru employ black and white thinking?
~~~
Score Key:
Add up your “yes” answers and compare to the table below.
1 to 8 Probably Safe and reasonably selfless like Gandhi
9 to 17 Heard of one Werner Erhard & EST? Self-improvement with a dark twist.
18 to 26 Think of L. Ron & Scientology – Weird and NSFW.
27 to 35 Jonestown…plausible fringe idea gone horribly horribly wrong. Watch what you drink…
36 to 40 Put on your trainers & trackies and prepare for a Slim Pickens ride on Hale-Bopp
Jack,what the hell is going on!?Why selling volume is peaking but the price goes on and on?I object, your honor!
You was right Jack,you are bad ''predictor''.I m better.
Quote from jack hershey:
So cool.
Probably one of the best demonstrations of smart money leading the herd.
This certainly illustrates how elegant it is to use a tool to be able to carve price by taking partial fills of the herd's chicken feed positions.
Over the last 53 years I put it into five outlines as file folders.
Jack,please send me five folders?
Knowing how to build walls around inference that is associated with any myths or false beliefs.
Imaginig waterfall is a good meditation.
Quote from ocean5:
Over the last 53 years I put it into five outlines as file folders.
Jack,please send me five folders?
What happened to the thread "Trading is EASY!" started by MarketWizard? It seems to have been accidentally erased!
Anyway, there were people who asked about seeing a trend, so I posted a pic, but JH said it was a poor example, (I had an uptrend followed by a downtrend). He said the second (trend) diminished, but there was nothing that I could see indicative of that, so I asked him to explain. Then the overnight before Good Fri happened.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-image...jhanalysis.png/
So I just asked him to explain what he meant when the said the second trend (the downtrend) "diminished".
Because, Enquiring minds want to know...
Quote from Paddler:
Give him a break. The party is over. What else do you want? Either you get it or you don't. Keep in mind that some remain as myth or proprietary or camouflaged from your view.
Make money.
I can't make heads or tails of the last 4 pages of this thread....you JH disciples are really off your rockers.......
''4. is an annotation assigned to price as a reminder that the OOE of the single pattern that exists can be broken and the two moves have to be folded into the prior pattern.''
Could anyone please show those 2 moves graphically?How do they look like?
Paddy,Ticki,anyone?.....
Piece of cake.
Why is it the first pages of this thread are legit, yet everyone throws crap at jh and the others?
Quote from Paddler:
Piece of cake.
Quote from ocean5:
Thanks Paddy,but i have a bit different view on this.Please,check this out in the attached.
Ignore the crap on resistance turning into support. For accuracy sake, you have to FAN OUT the Black channel in my original illustration.
Quote from Paddler:
Yes, you are completely wrong.
Answer my question in attached illustration. Good for your brain.
Your reply shows that your understanding of JHM is POOR.
1. Think. What if the POINT fails to reach Green bookmark is Red Point 3, what are the conditions required?
2. Think. What if the POINT fails to reach Green bookmark is New Black FTT, what are the conditions required?
Hints: I am indirectly telling you both could be the answer. Consider what is the Point between first move and second and Volume before and after this Point.
NB: After this exercise, you may want to re-think about Rule 4 that you posted, meaning correction.
Quote from Paddler:
Your reply shows that your understanding of JHM is POOR.
Quote from ocean5:
I heard this before.
1. Think. What if the POINT fails to reach Green bookmark is Red Point 3, what are the conditions required?
There is no way it could be Point 3,as i said,unless it is a sub-sub or whatever what you call the faster fractal.In my opinion,bla-bla-bla,Point 3 should be waaaay lower,if you cansider 'in kind' paradigm.
Nope and definitely nope. Think of the series of events (wtih Volume) from Break Out to Red Point 3.
2. Think. What if the POINT fails to reach Green bookmark is New Black FTT, what are the conditions required?
Volume peak,i suppose.
Think of the events (with Volume) from Black FTT to Failure to Break Out and then to New Black FTT.
Hints: I am indirectly telling you both could be the answer. Consider what is the Point between first move and second and Volume before and after this Point.
NB: After this exercise, you may want to re-think about Rule 4 that you posted, meaning correction.
Something related to the 'pre change, change, and post change of volume' concept?
BO is the reversal and FBO is the retrace.I don`t get what your point is...
Quote from ocean5:
Something related to the 'pre change, change, and post change of volume' concept?
No. This is expert stuff on carving turns.
BO is the reversal and FBO is the retrace.I don`t get what your point is...
All you need is OOE and Volume.
Let's think backward here in knowing we have Red P3.
How do you know for sure you have Red P3?
- Black volume Trough and then Increasing Red volume without breaking the Green bookmark.
How do you know for sure you are moving to Red P3?
- Decreasing Black volume from Red P2.
How do you know for sure you have Red P2?
- Red volume Peak and then Decreasing Black volume.
How do you know for sure you are moving to Red P2?
- Increasing Red volume from Break Out of prior Black RTL.
How do you know for sure you have Break Out of prior Black RTL?
- Red volume Trough at or near Black RTL and then Increasing Red volume. This is also a cast-in-stone Confirmation of the End of Black channel.
Similarly, to know you have a New Black FTT, you can not have Break Out of prior Black RTL. We call it Failure to Break Out. You can have Increasing or Decreasing Black volume but NOT to have Increasing Red volume.
Thanks for clarifying!I somewhat got the concept before,but thanks anyway.
Quote from ocean5:
Thanks for clarifying!I somewhat got the concept before,but thanks anyway.
Quote from Paddler:
Yes, you are completely wrong.
Answer my question in attached illustration. Good for your brain.
Quote from ocean5:
Where is the limit in fannig out RTL?To what extent i should fan it out?
Quote from Paddler:
Simple, isn't it?
Quote from ocean5:
Multiple timeframe or optimal timeframe,what would you choose?
.
Quote from Paddler:
Probably 15-second
26/04/2012 was an academic two folded move,wasn`t it,Paddy?
Quote from moonman:
Keep trying guys
__________________
Work is for people who don't know how to trade!
Multiple time frame. How can one determine optimal time frame? The market changes pace all the time!
Quote from ocean5:
Indeedy....
Multiple timeframe or optimal timeframe,what would you choose?
Jack,if the market is not time,but event based,whay do u use minutes display?
beau-beau, deuce-deuce from the left column...
Jack,i`m in inventorland again,i told you they were coming for me...withdraw me
Questions to Jack Hershey:Why when it works it`s certainty,when it doesnt it`s probability?I made 300% from Monday,but then something 'went wrong' and i gave it back.User error or system flaws?
Namaskar!!!
Jack, if you were to give away only one trading secret, what that would be?
Quote from ocean5:
Questions to Jack Hershey:Why when it works it`s certainty,when it doesnt it`s probability?I made 300% from Monday,but then something 'went wrong' and i gave it back.User error or system flaws?
Namaskar!!!
So, be humble and don't pretend you were Jack trading reversal to reversal else be ready to look for wrecking in trading.
Quote from ocean5:
Jack, if you were to give away only one trading secret, what that would be?
jokari
Quote from ocean5:
Jack, if you were to give away only one trading secret, what that would be?
Quote from baro-san:
jokari
What is the purpose of Johari btw?Could someone explane it to me,me Nonito Donaire?
open the window O5
breezy !
Quote from TIKITRADER:
open the window O5
breezy !
Quote from ocean5:
What is the purpose of Johari btw?Could someone explane it to me,me Nonito Donaire?
Quote from ocean5:
will it help to view my casual body?
thx,btw
Quote from R. Raskolnikov:
Multiple time frame. How can one determine optimal time frame? The market changes pace all the time!
__________________
Money is printed freedom
Quote from swisstrader:
With full auto pace indication I think is it possible.
Quote from TIKITRADER:
unless you are one of the hotties in RCGGirl's thread ....
sh*t, close the shades man.
Quote from ocean5:
Tiki,what IBGS stand for and what is the logic.Will you,please?
Quote from TIKITRADER:
first post
Intra Bar Gaussian Shift
ibgs
Quote from ocean5:
But what is the logic behind it?What is that shift supposed to be?
Quote from TIKITRADER:
The shift of one trend to another within a single bar ( intra bar)
Black to red, or red to black
Quote from ocean5:
Oh,i see.Thanks Tiki!
van Persie
Quote from TIKITRADER:
The shift ...Black to red, or red to black within a single bar ( intra bar)
Quote from ocean5:
How about this?Do u like my log,Sensei?
What is the ''answer sheet''?
Quote from ocean5:
One more thing...What is the ''checker'' for IBGS to sustain?Volume?
Quote from TIKITRADER:
Remember, all within a single Bar.
Just think of the volume sequences needed at trend overlap to begin, then confirm change, and then apply that same volume sequence intrabar.
You have to peak inside the forming volume bar, be careful, make sure its not an open window by mistake... you could get in trouble
X 2 X
With glossary
Quote from jack hershey:
Each column needs its own heading. I'm sure you had that in mind. Add a UL column to the right of the formation column. below you will see some tasks. The cells of the log need glossary definitions of each term used in any cell. you are using the log to record the oredr of events of three interlocking fractals. We need that done before Monday open.
Your first goal a few weeks back after you made a log was to spend a weekend going through logging 5 cycles of the slow fractal as a mental warmup drill. Be sure to include the BO of the RTL in each fractal cycle.
Get a few steno pads (a dozen to start up) Use them as a place to list the tasks you have been assigned. Be sure to make acolumn that lists where you created the task to do.
Make the list by reviewing all the posts you have ever made and the responses you got from anyone who may have been helping you at the time.
after you do the original rough out of these tasks. then do the steno pad(s) over again but first insert colored heavy paper dividers for each topic that the tasks you didn't do, fall under. Allow enough pages to include all tasks under each of the various headings. Post the headings in alphabetical order ASAP.
We will put the headings in a ranked order that I will determine once you have the stenos all set up and you have posted the 5 slower fractal handwritten pages and a typed correct answer sheet (this is a quick cut and paste once you get a corect hand written copy) for the five slower cycles.
You have to do the two other fractals as you do the slower one.
If you get one steno page done post a scan of the page. If you do one page of the 5 cycles, scan and post the page. This will time stamp the date you began to learn about how the markets work.
It is good to ask questions. Notice that you could look up the answers to your questions.
Put all your questions so far in a steno pad. Leave columns for the answers and where the answers were that were given to you by the people who know the answers.
in another steno pad list alphabetically the handlesof the people who are helping you. Also in a series offset by commas, note the date and where the reference is to the answer they gave you.
All of these stenos pads can remind others that you have, at last begun to work.
Buy a dozen three ring binders. we will set them up for various purposes. The first one is entitled glossary. The second one is entitled CW glossary. Scan and post here each page you add to easch of these three ring binders. Make two pages for each that are labelled volume. These four pages are for lists of books. Put the word NO in front of half of the volume pages. On the CW NO volume page, and at the top list "Trendfollowing" by Covell. No volume means in the index of the book there is NO volume under the V's.
All books with NO volume need to be flushed down the toilet page by page.
Volume IS the leading indicator of price. Any books that do not say this (an ommission) and any books that say otherwise need to be stored for and sent to a recycling facility.
Setup another three ring binder labelled CW Myths. You assemble these alphabetically. You need to find these as you do anything to learn. CW is largely based on perpetuating myths. for each myth, you will be building a perpeturator list (alphabteically, and cross referenced.) this means you are using adouble entry system. Do not listen to anyone who is listed as a perpetuator. Start with bighog.
Scan and print your first page in each three ring binder.
Work in color always; it costs more but builds the mind much faster than B/W.
Since your mind is not empty, we have to build a lot of walls around your mental problems. The wall consists of the correct lternative to the problem. It has to surround the problem completely.
We had a lot of problems in the first world war. Our armies were not taught to kill. Bradley was assigned to fix this. His boss thought he was a whiner and complainer. So he put Bradley next in command so he was no longer a loose cannon. As you remember, Patton slapped whimps. He lost promotions because of this. But Patton did talk to the commanders of past very historical armies to get the job done.
It takes three days to double your capital. this depends upon you having a fully differentiated mind. having a fully differentiated mind depends upon doing drills.
You see me training electricsavant to monitor in a timely manner. I have a team of complainers, whiners and whimps keeping him on the ball. this mens you have to have a three ring binder of my posts, since a lot will be deleted as a consequence of whining whimping and conplaining. every post I make has many messages onmany levels; they hit mythologists right between the eyes. A lot of peoople here have to protect newbies. 90% of potential traders fail. For newbies it is even greater.
Try to put the unworthy on ignore.
The unworthy and moderators do not read this thread.
Many people are helping you. You first reply sentence begins with "thank you".
I will correct each error you make. This get you to rich and filthy rich in months.
A person named redduke is working up a way to allow observers to understand my trading performance level. It has no educational value, BUT it will keep humor alive and well in ET.
Quote from ocean5:
Jack,could you please clarify,what paragraphs from your post to take seriously and what to skip?Let`s get to point.
Thank you.
Quote from Paddler:
ROFLOL.
Get both black and highlight markers.
Jack,does this mean the same as the trend FTT?Means that the trend is not found,in RDMS?
Quote from Triggaman:
Jack Hershey has a tax lien against him for unpaid taxes to the tune of $82,000 that was filed in 2006. If you go to Maricopa County's recorder web site (http://recorder.maricopa.gov/recdocdata/) and type into the Recording Number fields, the following number: 2006 1575958 and click "search" you will be able to see the recorded document.
[/B]
Jack,i didn1t go out today,so i didn`t buy stenoes and binders-shminders.I1ll buy it tomorrow morning.I`m in the Far East btw,and do not trade US RTH.It`s 12:00am down here right now.
Over
Quote from jack hershey:
This get you to rich and filthy rich in months.
Quote from FreakofNature:
Everything checks out but who is John ?
__________________
Money is printed freedom
Quote from ocean5:
Jack,i didn1t go out today,so i didn`t buy stenoes and binders-shminders.I1ll buy it tomorrow morning.I`m in the Far East btw,and do not trade US RTH.It`s 12:00am down here right now.
Over
Quote from Albert Cibiades:
Or maybe just filthy from sweating out losing positions which have no predetermined stops.
Your unintentional meessage today Jack was NEED THREE VOLUME PAGES FIRST. Which I take to mean that you will introduce the PV relation soon in three short crib pages. I ill be folloing your tootelage closely to point out any logical flaws. Remember them? Always in? Never a loss? No stops?
Quote from MarketMasher:
Albert - perhaps there can be a voting petition to have JH offer up his trading story to Schwager to be included in a Market Wizards.
That way, people will be able to learn more about JH and the JHM than just what he has posted about in various forums....
It's a win-win. JH gets some overdue recognition and a reputable forum for his story, and pesky posters can be silenced from then-on with "Just read Schwager's book".
Quote from ocean5:
Jack,could you please clarify,what paragraphs from your post to take seriously and what to skip?Let`s get to point.
Thank you.
Quote from ocean5:
With glossary
Quote from Paddler:
ROFLOL.
Get both black and highlight markers.
Quote from ocean5:
Jack,does this mean the same as the trend FTT?Means that the trend is not found,in RDMS?
Quote from ocean5:
Jack,i didn1t go out today,so i didn`t buy stenoes and binders-shminders.I1ll buy it tomorrow morning.I`m in the Far East btw,and do not trade US RTH.It`s 12:00am down here right now.
Over
Okay I am cight up in this non moderated thread.
I am not going to work with ocean 5, period.
The deal is that I do not teach but I do support learning.
It would not work out for me at my age to trade the Asian markets manually to accomdate ocean 5.
For Asian and European markets my deal is automation in SQL using a RDBMS approach.
As he says he has spent years and he basically does not even have a vocabulary much less a complete glossary of terms.
to me logging is an essential drillling tool. It takes work to learn.
One of the wonderful things about P&L that is properly presented, it can satisfy a broad range of observers. I was counting on a lurker or redduke to get the P&L discussion lock in .
I just got a complaint that brought me here. I tried to clean up the last few pages.
jack hershey...I try to read all of the posts.
Please hit the complain button when possible to save me the time.
quote from jack hershey:
Okay I am cight up in this non moderated thread.
Quote from jack hershey:
Okay we are finished.
I did not know you do not trade what I trade.
Skip everything.
I know many traders in the far east. each one I am thinking of is an expert. what they have in common is that they trade during RTH in US.
Sorry for our misunderstanding.
ocean5 and jack hershey,
Jack said this, eventhough this is a global public forum:
I am not going to work with ocean 5, period.
Will this escalate further....? Please take this to PM if you are having a disagreement over the time difference with each other.
BenzMercedesSL...pardon the interruption...eventhough you have not posted in this thread for 6 months..
ES
P.S. Why do I have this dark feeling that I am eventually going to need to close this thread and take names? Come on fellahs good moderation is no moderation, behave yoursleves and conduct yourselves as adults....
Quote from ocean5:
Oh,just in time,Jack.I was gonna leave for the binders...Okey,so long,be cool!
Thanks!
Quote from ElectricSavant:
ocean5 and jack hershey,
Jack said this, eventhough this is a global public forum:
I am not going to work with ocean 5, period.
Will this escalate further....? Please take this to PM if you are having a disagreement over the time difference with each other.
BenzMercedesSL...pardon the interruption...eventhough you have not posted in this thread for 6 months..
ES
P.S. Why do I have this dark feeling that I am eventually going to need to close this thread and take names? Come on fellahs good moderation is no moderation, behave yoursleves and conduct yourselves as adults....
Jack...The majority on these threads and I are on the same team as you. We are all members of this community and we all have a stake in it.
I personally volunteered to this community to moderate it. I find most of my duties spam related but have recently been receiving more complaints...which I have been asking for repeatedly and it seems to be working.
This is the conundrum...Do we want such heavy moderation that we reduce the posts in ET?...We know we do not want spam and that is an easy mechanical moderation duty along with some technology. But do we really want to say that this site is unmoderated because we do not edit content?
As far as you being personally harassed here in ET and your complaints I regret that I did not act upon them when you were hitting that button. I want to get better and do not disagree with some of what you say and can surely understand your feelings on the matter.
And lastly...Jack I do not appreciate you posting profanity in your post directly to me. I must comment upon it as it is my position to and it breaches the rules of conduct.
ES
Quote from jack hershey:
We all know closing a thread leads to its deletion. For those who deal with substantive content instead, be sure to set up an electronic file or make prints. of these queries and the answers many have contributed.
I can understand that you felt the content was about a time difference. Don't reread to check on that. My point of supporting and helping someone is that the person then, contributes to solving local problems. Ocean5 explained that he does not trade what I trade. In your terms I escalated the conversation to terminate any further help since, for me, there is no common ground. I do not expect you to understand this and that, if fact, no escalation was happening.
Your post here is what I call "a proof" of this thread not being moderated. My mistaken concept of moderation is that there is a consideration of substantive content. There is no noderating being done where substantive content is under consideration. Considering substantive content is not a possibility.
Most of the posts in ET that relate to me, are repeated negative posts. The majority subgroup of those posts are posts which are inaccurate. Here you are telling me to complain. At one time I did and it did not have a rational result. I quit doing this kind of house keeping that has no rational response. I didn't get anything near a fair shake. That can't change, since my activities, performance and substantive content production is "outside of the box".
Currently, it has been , again, suggested to me to post performance information. I asked the requestor to scope and bound the way in which he (redduke) thinks his criteria might be met. Maybe his response was deleted before I saw it.
So I'm more tired than ever offuckingaround here.
This is an information thread in a technical venue and specifically TA. When I post here, don'tfuckwith my posts.
Starting from a horizontal line, and moving left to right on the chart feels more natural for mind building.
Quote from RCG Trader:
Here is tutorial till you get around to getting your notebooks.
...
Quote from baro-san:
Starting from a horizontal line, and moving left to right on the chart feels more natural for mind building.
I hope RCG doesn't mind that I sampled selected slides from his video into an animated gif. From this it can be seen how the annotations are built from the right side of the chart (present) toward the left (past), starting with a vertical line that is gradually sloped to establish the RTL. My original question / suggestion was if it's not more natural to start the annotation from the left of the chart (past) and build it towards the right (present), starting with a horizontal line that is gradually sloped to establish the RTL. This right / left discussion is different form Jack's price moving dominantly from right to left (RTL toward LTL), and non-dominantly left to right.
Quote from jack hershey:
I was unable to get the video to work. ...
''...but I can't see why.''
for the petty tyrantims,that is why
My understanding of Jack's method is
A point one must start with an FTT/ftt and build into the future ( start from left and annotate to the right ) taping towards point two, then on to point three, ftt, for the
sequential order of events to take place properly.
Now where is Jack Paddler this evening ?
Quote from TIKITRADER:
Now where is Jack Paddler this evening ?
Quote from ocean5:
righ here...
Quote from TIKITRADER:
Was Nkhoi the writer of the volume check script for ninja ?
He may be able to answer that.
Quote from baro-san:
I hope RCG doesn't mind that I sampled selected slides from his video into an animated gif. From this it can be seen how the annotations are built from the right side of the chart (present) toward the left (past), starting with a vertical line that is gradually sloped to establish the RTL. My original question / suggestion was if it's not more natural to start the annotation from the left of the chart (past) and build it towards the right (present), starting with a horizontal line that is gradually sloped to establish the RTL. This right / left discussion is different form Jack's price moving dominantly from right to left (RTL toward LTL), and non-dominantly left to right.
It may be that the method suggested in the video makes more sense, but I can't see why.
The drawing of channels needs to start in the now, and go backwards. If you do it that way, it is easier to spot an FTT in a timely manner.
Tiki,did you ever try to scratch 200 contracts out?Do you think it`s gonna work to scratch 200 cars a pop?
It`s me,btw,Rikki-Tiki-Tavi
Quote from ocean5:
Tiki,did you ever try to scratch 200 contracts out?Do you think it`s gonna work to scratch 200 cars a pop?
It`s me,btw,Rikki-Tiki-Tavi
If I remember correctly it is a font you are missing. It was mentioned in the "Software used to trade JH method". Install that font.
Quote from ocean5:
Hi Tik,Chris ''Real'' Rea speaking...nothing but bluuue skyyyy,so turn it up!
Okkkaay...yes,you are right,Nkhoi was.I asked about this glitch in the ''Hershey snippets'' thread,but there were no responses. On the price i see the ''5''LOL..what the hell that may mean...and on volume ''i'' things appear.Maybe some Ninja glitch.I have same the script on another laptop,but there everything is ok...
Quote from frenchfry:
If I remember correctly it is a font you are missing. It was mentioned in the "Software used to trade JH method". Install that font.
Yes. the OS font. It was answered in that thread and the font was even uploaded. I know it takes a few minutes but if you go through that thread you will find a link to the zipped font.
Harmonic
Hi Jack.
What should I look for in OTR to DECIDE the harmonic whether is even or odd? Is it by the volume velocity? A few lines should be sufficient.
Thank you and best wishes.
SK0
Quote from jack hershey:
This is a superior question.
The pace lines are calc'ed as shown in the Hershey coding and programing thread
your focus is on what a Quant would think he is seeing as a "wide tail". BUT it is not a wide tail at all it conforms, within stated limits to a gaussian distribution.
This region you address as well as the lowest region, has only exactly half the influence of the four main and central regions.
These six regions each have their purposes. the region you mention is a "breakout region". The lowest region is the same.
the remaining four major relative regions are most important. these are the regions of the fewest surprises to the most experienced and biggest money traders. Since most money velocity can occur frontrunning the "big fish" it is important to profit effectively and efficiently during the most reliable parasitic trading periods.
If you get setup to "see" the markets and the PEOPLE who influence, you will be putting in place a ten way division of all trades that are compiled into 6 regions: two tails and four main regions. This IS science handling the PEOPLE factor in trading.
Notice your "short stitch" being annotated in price. Also notice where it is in trending segments.
You have an oppotunity to behave. You did ask a question that indicates a major visual short coming most chart readers have. Here I have posted my first chart. It shows when volume is used to measure trends and it shows when volume is not used to measure trends.
Amazingly you can read posters here that think each bar is equal when in reality some bars count and other bars count not at all. How difficult could it be to differentiate the two subsets of bars?
The bars on my first chart have three colors (red black and blue) Look at the chart being used to instruct me. Mono. Why? Two other price values are missing on each bar. Why? I am not going to delete this information on my charts simply because it would deprive me of available information.
My view is that the pacelines could be reduce to the 3 lines.Lower bo,middle - latteral line,and higher bo.No?
Jack,the blue square is the latterals,and what is the red square on your chart?
Quote from ocean5:
My view is that the pacelines could be reduce to the 3 lines.Lower bo,middle - latteral line,and higher bo.No?
Quote from ocean5:
My view is that the pacelines could be reduce to the 3 lines.Lower bo,middle - latteral line,and higher bo.No?
Quote from ocean5:
And the appropriate lines could be put on a price pane.
Quote from jack hershey:
I work in a simpler manner than you.
The way to divide deciles into four parts may be easy or a gueass for you but for me there was an involvement in Science.
you may have missed the volatility and overlap tables.
If you do the coding to adjust the region every bar, you will find it requires work. Maybe you have not seen the lines adjusting during the day>
Quote from Redneck:
case in point
RN
Quote from ocean5:
Jack,the blue square is the latterals,and what is the red square on your chart?
Quote from jack hershey:
Every internal except the lateral.
Every internal IS latteral.I dont get it
What is ''internal'' anyway? No,seriously?
Jack,are you here?
Quote from ocean5:
What is ''internal'' anyway?
Quote from jack hershey:
I work in a simpler manner than you.
The way to divide deciles into four parts may be easy or a gueass for you but for me there was an involvement in Science.
you may have missed the volatility and overlap tables.
If you do the coding to adjust the region every bar, you will find it requires work. Maybe you have not seen the lines adjusting during the day>
Is this a joke?
Quote from jack hershey:
Every internal except the lateral.
Both boxes are made into one bar, respectively.
This means for trading, you only have translating bars.
At this level of PA trading you fail to have a leading indicator, so insted of lagging, you switch to a leading indicator.
By doing this, then you have advance warning from volume what is going to happen in price.
Price teaches what to throw out in volume.
As you would see if you had the clue to set up a screen to watch markets, All bars begin with a red box bounding them.
A second bar with a red box surrounding it is thrown out.
If you are an efective and efficient trader, you cut back on observations during a bar up to and including all the time that the bar is NOT important. While this is going on you sweep your eyes to follow (what the charts I used to illustrate how my eyes sweep) the values where trend segments will be ending. These are other leading indicator pics that you hang on your display.
As you found out somewhere you are "detailed" oriented and you find it impossible to discover the pieces. Often you just throw them out.
You were "reacting" to TO a while back. It is just an example of your detail orientation.
It is rarely possible for a person to consider the views of others. I am at another pole in that spectrum of views. I deal deductively from principles. So I need to disappear for some kinds of thinkers and all non thinkers.
I suggest "putting the pieces together". It is based on the assumption that a person who is "detail" oriented can easily find the pieces. That did not happen in CW or academia.
The world's orientation to learning to make money is almost totally senseless. I do not see any tidal changes coming soon.
Quote from tenthousandmen:
Is this a joke?
Quote from jack hershey:
If you walk into the middle of a ballet without a program, you may find the ballet to be a joke.
__________________
"Those argent Fields more likely habitants"
My native is Sanskrit.Eva kevalam
Pain in the dance
[QUOTE]Quote from jack hershey:
this bare unembellished chart was displayed in this thread to show (visually) the starting point of what a person would see looking over my shoulder to see two of my screens.
When is the next point?
Q:Can i use the unembelished chart only to make $1,3K in 9 minutes?
"Amazingly you can read posters here that think each bar is equal when in reality some bars count and other bars count not at all. How difficult could it be to differentiate the two subsets of bars?"
Tell how not difficult?
Quote from jack hershey:
My trades fro the day:
And reversals on 35, 47,...
Quote from ocean5:
So you drawn down a bit and the reversed with the scratch?Or was it the moment ,you mentioned somewhere, called ''sometimes you have to pay as in any kind of business operation''?Was it a cost for doing business?
I`d sell there either,but then i`d be more then 3 points draw down.How do you deal in this situation Jack?It`s interesting to hear.
Quote from ocean5:
So you drawn down a bit and the reversed with the scratch?Or was it the moment ,you mentioned somewhere, called ''sometimes you have to pay as in any kind of business operation''?Was it a cost for doing business?
I`d sell there either,but then i`d be more then 3 points draw down.How do you deal in this situation Jack?It`s interesting to hear.
LOL, poor Ocean5. It's not nice to pick on the weaklings, Jack.
Quote from jack hershey:
I am the messenger. You re getting bad news.
Quote from jack hershey:
You trade from a CW emotional set viewpoint. these emotions are anxiety, fear and anger.
you describe the flux of your CW resoning in the situation you are in after you put your money in the market. When you are on the sidelines you are probably calmer since you are not at what the CW calls RISK.
Humans have dealt in survival from the earliest times. The lizard syndrome is well known as a defence. "Freezing" and "pain" are the CW terms.
There is another world, of course.
you may own a car and you may drive it. your emotions while drving comes from the context you are in. You "know that you know" what is going on.
In trading you do not know; in driving you know.
I am very different than are you.
I have a perfected trading system built on the Scientific Method and its deductive process. As I used the system over a period of half a century, it became part of my long term memory and while I slept two things happened.
My mind became further organized as a spectrum. My mind found weaker spots and formulated questions and when I woke up I wrote them on a steno pad.
You almost bought some steno pads one time but your ANGER prevented you.
At bar 35 I see I have made 8 points times 10 accounts times 50 times the average number of contracts in each of the 10 accounts. I feel supported, comfortable and confident. These are feeliings coming from below my neck.
Bernanke stopped speaking on bar 36 as everyone knows who pays attention to business.
It is lunchtime in the big apple.
your question someday in the future will be: Why didn't you bookmark the bars 35 and pick off another six points three points each way (you don't recognize that either))
You missed the answer to the person who asked that question yesterday.
after the non book mark there were 20 minutes of a lateral where no money was to be made.
On bar 47, I watched the spiking closely since I knew there could be a signal on the bar. So A cremed it for one reason only: TO KEEP ON THE CORRECT SIDE OF THE MARKET.
here is a principle to understand and adopt:
stay on the correct side of the market on your trading fractal and the profits will take care of themselves.
Going long on bar 47 led to 4 times 10 accounts times 50 time the average number of contracts in the 10 accounts. And a free relaxed lunch before that.
you use OODA of John Boyd; you get the consequeces that you post.
I use MADA; I get a fully differentiated mind that takes the full off of the market dduring regular trading hours.
You cannot erase or empty your mind. If you were to want to make money, you would have to build a barrier (s) in your mind to prevent you mind from finding or getting to use your present belief system.
Notice you are looking for a shortcut. There is no shortcut. you mind is cast in concrete as you show in almost all of your posts.
I am the messenger. You re getting bad news.
This post is a valuable post and its topic is neuroscience.
Quote from ocean5:
Hey you reversed on bar 35 SHORT after bar 20,which you reversed long from.WTF you are shitting me here?
''My trades fro the day:
Bar1 Open as called
trade 2 book mark reversal on bar 3
trade 3 reversal on bar 20
And reversals on 35, 47, 53, 64, 68, 74. trade on 78 (exit)''
I`m the messenger:you are a bullshiter!
Is your real purpose to fuck everyones mind,Jack and to waste everyones time?!Then stop fucking posting!!!
Quote from ocean5:
Is your real purpose to fuck everyones mind,Jack and to waste everyones time?!Then stop fucking posting!!!
ANGER is what deprives the pundits from Heaven.
Quote from ocean5:
Hey you reversed on bar 35 SHORT after bar 20,which you reversed long from.WTF you are shitting me here?
''My trades fro the day:
Bar1 Open as called
trade 2 book mark reversal on bar 3
trade 3 reversal on bar 20
And reversals on 35, 47, 53, 64, 68, 74. trade on 78 (exit)''
Instead of being agree when he`s wrong,he usually starts his regular ''CW,et al bla-bla'' bull.And that is disgusting!
Quote from ocean5:
Instead of being agree when he`s wrong,he usually starts his regular ''CW,et al bla-bla'' bull.And that is disgusting!
Do you know how even as a beginner?
Quote from Jack Hershey:
here is a principle to understand and adopt:
stay on the correct side of the market on your trading fractal and the profits will take care of themselves.
/
Quote from d08:
I didn't see Jack post any statistics anywhere either, both are just expressing opinions. I've analyzed volume a lot and haven't found any significant evidence of it affecting direction.
Was reading mr.Hershey for a while in this thread.Seems,he doesn`t pay that much attention to what he posts.It seems that the red square is more closer to lateral movement then te blue one.Am i correct?
Quote from SatMir:
Was reading mr.Hershey for a while in this thread.Seems,he doesn`t pay that much attention to what he posts.It seems that the red square is more closer to lateral movement then te blue one.Am i correct?
Quote from TIKITRADER:
Hermano,
Red sq = lateral formation
Lateral movement is slightly different
Blue boxes ( sq as you mention ) are not lateral formation,
they are internals of a certain group.
Look up Jack Hershey clean page2
Also there may exist lateral movement in your example chart starting around 10 am extending to approximately 12pm.
Quote from TIKITRADER:
Also there may exist lateral movement in your example chart starting around 10 am extending to approximately 12pm.
Quote from SatMir:
Yes,that`i why i said,mr.doesn`t pay much attention when he posts.Here he said the othewise,when some kid asked him - red-internals,and blue-lats:
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...&pagenumber=174
Quote from TIKITRADER:
That is the Trade Navigator platform.
I do not have it. I have seen Jack and others post some charts which look to be coded blue for internals, red for lateral formation.
A question to Jack Hershey.
Don`t you never adjust the timeframe according to volatility,or you use 5 min chart under any circumstances?With the present volatility,internals,for e.g.,could be 3-4 points in range.
Thank you.
Another question.
Higher highs n lows iz all u need 2 know
Quote from Mushroom:
Here's a trade today where I exited solely based on volume being too low. If it wasn't for volume it would have been a small loss instead of a small profit, cause I would have stayed in the trade longer.
Could give lots of examples where it has helped me, others prob can do. Don't understand how you can just disregard volume.
Q to Jack Hershey...How the going?
Q to JH.Why is ES so sssssllllloooowwwwww?
Jack,can you predict the channel`s width?Is it a good idea,anyway?
So many new faces i observe on this page...
au contraire!
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