Posted by BenzMercedesSL on 10-28-11 04:22 AM:

Questions to Jack Hershey

I am not an older detractor of Jack Hershey.

I recently found out one of my problem: I followed Jack's definitions strictly. This is one of the reasons why I can't put the pieces together!

Background information is here:

In case Snake deletes the above thread, I repost my messages here.

Posted by BenzMercedesSL on 10-28-11 04:23 AM:

10-27-11 08:54 PM

Quote from jack hershey:

The trading fractaland its slower fractal.

begin to use the regular names for the nested fractals; your object is to build your mind.

By thinking in terms of middle you muddle.

By definition (always emphasized by Jack Hershey and his proteges):
"In the same fractal, the point 2 of a parallelogram must be outside the prior parallelogram's RTL"

I followed this definition strictly during annotation. I recently knew this was not apply to tape. Hahahaha, that is one of the reasons why I can't put the pieces together!

Well, it's my problem. I don't have enough "critical thinking".

Good! Lesson learnt. I need to think differently.

Jack sometimes writes something wrong deliberately.

I am now skeptical to what he said. (This is not an offensive comment)

Definition can have exception!

Why can't gaussian overlap??? Nobody said "gaussian cannot be overlapped"!!!

I always see incomplete sequence.

x2x(increasing) 2y 2x (expect increasing but sometimes decreasing!!!) and then start another new sequence (x2x...)

This situation can only be explained with the concept of "gaussian overlap".

Posted by BenzMercedesSL on 10-28-11 04:28 AM:

My argument:

10-26-11 10:25 PM
In order to complete b2b2r2b and r2r2b2r (tape level), the Gaussian can be overlapped in some cases.

10-27-11 02:57 AM
Trend overlaps, why can't Gaussian overlap???

Difficult to see the tape sequence (b2b2r2b/r2r2b2r) in a ES 5 min chart. The tape sequence in YM 2 min chart is a bit clearer.

We need to have one dom tape and one non-dom tape to draw a traverse. By gaussian definition, tape completes with either r2r2b2r or b2b2r2b. This ES 5 min chart snippet shows the incomplete sequence of tapes.

If the gaussian of 2 parallelograms(which are tapes in this case) can overlap, both the sequence (of the tapes) can complete.

My clarification:

r2r2b2r or b2b2r2b : tape (or FF)'s gaussian
R2R2B2R or B2B2R2B : traverse (or TF)'s gaussian

Posted by BenzMercedesSL on 10-28-11 04:29 AM:

The ES 5 min chart snippet

Posted by BenzMercedesSL on 10-28-11 04:30 AM:

The corresponding YM 2 min chart

Posted by BenzMercedesSL on 10-28-11 04:32 AM:

I use nkhoi's scripts.

For nkhoi's pv_prvol_v04:

Posted by jprad on 10-28-11 04:35 AM:

Quote from BenzMercedesSL:

Good! Lesson learnt. I need to think differently.

Jack sometimes writes something wrong deliberately.

When it comes to Jack here's the best advice I can give you.

Which sense do you rely on when you're not sure of a certain food that you're about to consume has gone bad?

Why, it's the later, of course. Our brains were hardwired a long time ago to trust our sense of smell over every other sense.

When it comes to anything Jack writes, remember this: if it looks like candy but smells like bullshit it ain't candy...

__________________
-jack-

Posted by BenzMercedesSL on 10-28-11 04:44 AM:

Another question is about rocket. I think this question blocks many people.

Every pattern has 3 moves: dom, non dom and dom.

Rocket seems to be an exception : no non-dom FF

Posted by RCG Trader on 10-28-11 04:57 AM:

Quote from BenzMercedesSL:

Another question is about rocket. I think this question blocks many people.

Every pattern has 3 moves: dom, non dom and dom.

Rocket seems to be an exception : no non-dom FF

Look closer. The non dom is right on that chart.

Rocket, over 80 stoc, volume rising. Get in.

B2R, get out.

Don't over think this.

Posted by nkhoi on 10-28-11 05:05 AM:

Quote from BenzMercedesSL:

...
Rocket seems to be an exception :...

rocket and iceberg already taken try 'faster fractal'

Posted by BenzMercedesSL on 10-28-11 06:07 AM:

Look closer. The non dom is right on that chart.

Rocket, over 80 stoc, volume rising. Get in.

B2R, get out.

Don't over think this.

Quote from nkhoi:

rocket and iceberg already taken try 'faster fractal'

Is the Traverse level gaussian correct in this chart (included Stoc, entry and exit)?

Posted by RCG Trader on 10-28-11 06:16 AM:

Quote from BenzMercedesSL:

Is the Traverse level gaussian correct in this chart (included Stoc, entry and exit)?

No, the third bar, right on the end of your chart is the exit. That is you r B2R, do you see it now?

Posted by BenzMercedesSL on 10-28-11 06:21 AM:

Is rocket related to Pace Acceleration mentioned in IR thread?

Tape builds traverse, traverse then widens to be a channel.

Due to fractal nature, bbt builds tape which then widens to be a traverse (i.e. rocket).

If the above is true, there will be an endless loop...

bbt's ff builds bbt which then widens to be a bbt's sf (i.e. tape)....

I probably over-complicate the stuff again...

Posted by RCG Trader on 10-28-11 06:30 AM:

Quote from BenzMercedesSL:

Is rocket related to Pace Acceleration mentioned in IR thread?

Tape builds traverse, traverse then widens to be a channel.

Due to fractal nature, bbt builds tape which then widens to be a traverse (i.e. rocket).

If the above is true, there will be an endless loop...

bbt's ff builds bbt which then widens to be a bbt's sf (i.e. tape)....

I probably over-complicate the stuff again...

You do. Rocketeers is step one. After PVT. You are probably skipping PVT, which I do not recommend.

But if you insist, be a Rocketeer. Do not move forward until you have at least tripled your account.

Posted by BenzMercedesSL on 10-28-11 06:38 AM:

No, the third bar, right on the end of your chart is the exit. That is you r B2R, do you see it now?

Is it correct?

Posted by RCG Trader on 10-28-11 06:40 AM:

Quote from BenzMercedesSL:

Is it correct?

Fractal too large. Go back to your original pic, and on that third bar where you see more red volume than the red before, that is a Red 2 Red. Exit your rocket right there. Try not to jump fractals, that is a very common problem with newbies.

Posted by BenzMercedesSL on 10-28-11 07:04 AM:

Fractal too large. Go back to your original pic, and on that third bar where you see more red volume than the red before, that is a Red 2 Red. Exit your rocket right there. Try not to jump fractals, that is a very common problem with newbies.

Yes, I always jump fractals...

The "B2R" mentioned in your previous post means :

B2B2R2"B R"2R2b2R

The trend overlap area, am I right?

Posted by BenzMercedesSL on 10-28-11 07:06 AM:

Quote from nkhoi:

rocket and iceberg already taken try 'faster fractal'

Would you elaborate more on that, please?

Posted by RCG Trader on 10-28-11 07:20 AM:

Quote from BenzMercedesSL:

Yes, I always jump fractals...

The "B2R" mentioned in your previous post means :

B2B2R2"B R"2R2b2R

The trend overlap area, am I right?

Close.

U left on a B2R. The trend can reassert itself.

Hold till a R2R, that is two bars over. See where you have higher red than the bar before it? That is a R2R. Keep at it,you are doing fine.

Posted by RCG Trader on 10-28-11 07:31 AM:

You need to take this bar by bar. Don't over think. Jack dumps a lot of info on his students. Take it all in and slow it down. I had a Calculus teacher like that. His name Dr. Dean, and he had a PhD in Mathematics and was teaching first year Calculus to freshmen EE students. He was brutal. And he would not stop either. So when I ran into Jack, it was like Dr. Dean. Do not try to take it all in at one time. Build upon each concept.

Posted by BenzMercedesSL on 10-28-11 07:33 AM:

Close.

U left on a B2R. The trend can reassert itself.

Hold till a R2R, that is two bars over. See where you have higher red than the bar before it? That is a R2R. Keep at it,you are doing fine.

I should exit at the last red bar ("16:10-16:15" 5 min bar) on the chart as R2R appeared at that moment. Am I right?

Posted by RCG Trader on 10-28-11 07:51 AM:

Quote from BenzMercedesSL:

I should exit at the last red bar ("16:10-16:15" 5 min bar) on the chart as R2R appeared at that moment. Am I right?

You have it, grasshopper

Posted by BenzMercedesSL on 10-28-11 08:28 AM:

You have it, grasshopper

In 4 Oct 2011 EOD, a DOM up traverse completed and then a NON-DOM down traverse started .(we saw R2R)

In 5 Oct 2011 morning, we expected a NON-DOM down traverse continuation.

I am wondering where the FTT of that NON-DOM down traverse is.

If FTT occurred @ 9:55, the last dom tape of that down traverse had only 1 bar. This should not be possible because the smallest observable thing (tape in this case) is formed by at least 2 bars.

When I switched to YM 2 min chart (9:52-10:00 area), I only saw r2r (the sequence was incomplete)

Did I miss something?

In the attached chart,
Black thin line: up tape and down tape
Blue medium line: up traverse
Pink medium line: down traverse

Posted by RCG Trader on 10-28-11 08:33 AM:

Quote from BenzMercedesSL:

In 4 Oct 2011 EOD, a DOM up traverse completed and then a NON-DOM down traverse started .(we saw R2R)

In 5 Oct 2011 morning, we expected a NON-DOM down traverse continuation.

I am wondering where the FTT of that NON-DOM down traverse is.

If FTT occurred @ 9:55, the last dom tape of that down traverse had only 1 bar. This should not be possible because the smallest observable thing (tape in this case) is formed by at least 2 bars.

When I switched to YM 2 min chart (9:52-10:00 area), I only saw r2r (the sequence was incomplete)

Did I miss something?

In the attached chart,
Black thin line: up tape and down tape
Blue medium line: up traverse
Pink medium line: down traverse

Sigh......

Rocketeer till you triple your account. I have shown you where to get out, and you know how to get in. What else to you require?

Posted by BenzMercedesSL on 10-28-11 09:02 AM:

Sigh......

Rocketeer till you triple your account. I have shown you where to get out, and you know how to get in. What else to you require?

I'll study the rockets first.

Posted by frenchfry on 10-28-11 10:30 AM:

Re: Re: Questions to Jack Hershey

Quote from Polix:

frenchfry is that you?

why are you ashamed to reveal yourself?

mine were outsource;SnakeEYe;Polix(is present)

i didn`t have any,ever.

You smoked too much, drank too much, or both!

No, it's not me but I'm looking forward to see how this plays out.

But to be honest I also had my moments like MercedesBenz where I thought something can't be correct. If I apply this stuff in a strict manner it doesn't seem to work. And I could even prove it. But then suddenly Jack was able to pull another rabbit out of his hat and show me that I haven't noticed "the obvious".

So Mercedes hit the gas and smoke some rubber!

Posted by BenzMercedesSL on 10-28-11 11:49 AM:

Re: Re: Re: Questions to Jack Hershey

Quote from frenchfry:

You smoked too much, drank too much, or both!

No, it's not me but I'm looking forward to see how this plays out.

But to be honest I also had my moments like MercedesBenz where I thought something can't be correct. If I apply this stuff in a strict manner it doesn't seem to work. And I could even prove it. But then suddenly Jack was able to pull another rabbit out of his hat and show me that I haven't noticed "the obvious".

So Mercedes hit the gas and smoke some rubber!

Hi frenchfry,

Welcome. Nice to see you here!

I thought I was the only one who had millions of questions on SCT.

Do you have the same questions (the above posted questions) that I am having now?

Posted by BenzMercedesSL on 10-28-11 11:55 AM:

I read all the posts in IR thread. There are many terms from Spyder, e.g. Pace Acceleration and Peak Volume. Do they still valid?

At that time (around 2008), Spyder was undergoing "Iterative Refinement". Some of the information might not be correct.

What do you think?

Posted by BenzMercedesSL on 10-28-11 12:05 PM:

08-01-08 12:34 PM

As for those that seem to 'get it' , I would venture to say you are giving them too much credit. Making money is a far cry from truly understanding these methods. You can tell by most blotters that very few are doing SCT on even the most coarse of levels. As Spyder said, it is a long process to get there.

The fail rate seemed quite high....Are we going to be doomed?

hahahaha......

Posted by BenzMercedesSL on 10-28-11 12:24 PM:

Three ways exist for Price to move from Point One to Point Two.

I only think of one way: dom direction with increasing volume

Posted by SK0 on 10-28-11 03:03 PM:

David, my two cents below. Sorry if I confuse you or anyone for what I am going to say. I stand to be corrected.

Quote from BenzMercedesSL:

Is rocket related to Pace Acceleration mentioned in IR thread?

Pace Acceleration was a concept created by Spyder. Rocket was a term used by Jack way back in 2003 to define Traverse-level trends where the 5-min bars exceed 10,000 contracts each (probably too low for our time now).

Rockets usually occur at the open and hit the R on the way up or S on the way down. Right after a Rocket is a CCC. That is why we have plenty of time to exit on low-risk Rockets.

A Rocket could look like a Tape but it is not. The non-dominant Tape component of a Rocket could move in dominant direction too. I know it sounds incorrect but I never make it up as that was what Jack said in some of the old posts. Furthermore, in extremely fast pace, Tape component could become unobservable on 5-min bars. Look at your example. See where you annotated 2R in the corrected chart.

The strategy for Rockets is to enter long when Stochastic (14 1 3) cross above 80 line and exit when cross below 80 line. Similarly, for falling Rockets, enter short when Stochastic cross below 20 line and exit when cross above it.

Tape builds traverse, traverse then widens to be a channel.

Traverse widens to create volatility expansion. A Traverse does not widen to be a Channel. Traverses build Channel.

Due to fractal nature, bbt builds tape which then widens to be a traverse (i.e. rocket).

See above.

If the above is true, there will be an endless loop...

bbt's ff builds bbt which then widens to be a bbt's sf (i.e. tape)....

BBT is the same as Traverse level. TAPE is Channel level. Sub BBT is Tape level.

I probably over-complicate the stuff again...

Posted by SK0 on 10-28-11 03:23 PM:

Quote from BenzMercedesSL:

I read all the posts in IR thread. There are many terms from Spyder, e.g. Pace Acceleration and Peak Volume. Do they still valid?

At that time (around 2008), Spyder was undergoing "Iterative Refinement". Some of the information might not be correct.

What do you think?

The Peak Volume is still good. Jack talked about it yesterday.

On adjacent bar basis with no PRV, I would not use it alone to decide whether to switch market mode. It is better to wait for IBGS/Doji Pass or failure to resume on the next bar.

Posted by BenzMercedesSL on 10-28-11 03:29 PM:

Quote from SK0:

David, my two cents below. Sorry if I confuse you or anyone for what I am going to say. I stand to be corrected.

Thank you for your information, SK0!

I am still confused with this:

Traverse widens to create volatility expansion.

My understanding on Pace Acceleration:

A dom traverse widens to create volatility expansion. After the VE, a non dom move follows and then dom move. This creates an accelerated traverse within the original traverse. Then the dom traverse promotes to a channel....

The IR post that gave me the idea on Pace Acceleration was here:

The corresponding chart they were talking at that time was:

Is this a special case in SCT?

Posted by SK0 on 10-28-11 03:39 PM:

Quote from BenzMercedesSL:

Three ways exist for Price to move from Point One to Point Two.

I only think of one way: dom direction with increasing volume

This is not the way to build inferences in your brain.

There is only one way for Price to move from Point 1 to Point 2. That is, move to the right with non-dominant volume, then breakout from RTL with dominant volume to the left.

If I don't have this kind of move, logically I don't have the move from Point 1 to Point 2. It would be something else or incorrect annotation.

Posted by BenzMercedesSL on 10-28-11 03:41 PM:

Quote from SK0:

The Peak Volume is still good. Jack talked about it yesterday.

On adjacent bar basis with no PRV, I would not use it alone to decide whether to switch market mode. It is better to wait for IBGS/Doji Pass or failure to resume on the next bar.

Thanks again!

I'll study the information there.

Posted by jsp326 on 10-28-11 03:58 PM:

My questions:

1) If your trading methods are so good, how come you've only entered one public trading contest...coming in dead last and leaving with a 28% loss?

2) If you don't like contests, why not enter your trades on a site like Collective2?

3) You seem to fancy yourself as a humanitarian. Do you sleep better at night knowing hundreds of people have wasted countless hours of their time (not to mention their savings) trying to decode your unsubstantiated, cryptic methods?

Posted by SK0 on 10-28-11 04:23 PM:

Quote from BenzMercedesSL:

Thank you for your information, SK0!

I am still confused with this:

Quote from SK0:
Traverse widens to create volatility expansion.

My understanding on Pace Acceleration:

A dom traverse widens to create volatility expansion. After the VE, a non dom move follows and then dom move. This creates an accelerated traverse within the original traverse. Then the dom traverse promotes to a channel....

The IR post that gave me the idea on Pace Acceleration was here:

The corresponding chart they were talking at that time was:

Is this a special case in SCT?

I am one of those who until today still do not understand Pace Acceleration, LOL. And I am glad that I have almost forgot about it.

I am confused what you really do not understand.

Posted by piezoe on 10-28-11 04:53 PM:

It's a shame really. I hate to see anyone waste their time. There are quite a few good traders that post at least occasionally on ET. Find out who they are and read their posts instead. And, Jack, I wish you well. I really do. It's just that what you are doing, in my personal opinion, is harmful.

Posted by jack hershey on 10-28-11 08:29 PM:

Quote from jsp326:

My questions:

1) If your trading methods are so good, how come you've only entered one public trading contest...coming in dead last and leaving with a 28% loss?

2) If you don't like contests, why not enter your trades on a site like Collective2?

3) You seem to fancy yourself as a humanitarian. Do you sleep better at night knowing hundreds of people have wasted countless hours of their time (not to mention their savings) trying to decode your unsubstantiated, cryptic methods?

I have great empathy for those who come upon trading and do their wondering out loud.

Trading to take the market's full offer can be a wonderful experience. It is the standard I attain.

My methods are beyond good and they deserve consideration.

So I have a lot of responsibilities to give care to so that as few people harm themselves when it is possible to prevent harm.

Your questions do not have much to do with improving your trading skills. And it looks like you may need to consider how educating yourself could be improved.

My mission has always been two fold: Have people learn to make money and support the learning of others by passing it forward. They also help solve local problems with their profits and new found time.

I do what I do and go where I go to forward my goals.

For you to realize your potential in life as well as becoming more rational, consider bearing down and beginning carefully to build your mind.

Use the knowledge and skills acquisition that has served you well in the past.

Find someone who can keep you focussed on doing the ordered drills for conducting the process of learning to take the full offer of the market.

You have one goal. To repeat HOW you learned to read or drive a car or learned to ski. BUT you need to apply this same process to build a fully differentiated mind.

For reading you have an alphabet, words formed from letters, their definitions. You know the rules of forming a language from words by using them in an order of appearance. Sentences form complete thoughts and, as used in paragraphs, sentences cooperate to increase the sense and sensitivity of the transfer of information.

Writing books is helpful for understanding how information is transferred. Do some after you are rich.

No one starts with a clean slate or a blank mind. I recommend seeing the "Temple Grandin Story" since she started with a mind that had little wiring.

Your mind has a disadvantage and that often happens to people. So what? Glance through a couple of books on learning and a couple on how the mind works. Get acquainted with your status and what it will take for you to get to an even starting point.

Trading is like learning a body of skills and knowledge just like you did in fifth or seventh grade. You can do it. BUT maybe you will fail of your own accord.

One outcome is having the text of a partnership all written out and put in force. The person you line up to keep you on track, will explain how partnerships work and that you are a partner with the market.

You do not have to trust me but you do have to trust the market. You can't do trust by deciding to trust. For example, I could never trust you at all. You aren't going to help others or spend resources to solve local problems. You are a "taker" instead.

You even failed to decode my unsubstantiated cryptic methods. Those who use them have a key that was denied you and you know that.

Building a mind to excel is done by adding inference after inference, if and only if, they are of "like kind" (Keynes) and there is an underlying logic (Carnap). What emerges is a spectrum of adjacent pieces that is complete and finite. In other words: "A fully differentiated mind" for partnering with the market.

So a rule set does not ever appear. A system appears. It has three parts: a structure, a process within the structure and results come form conducting the process within the structure.

You ski anywhere and it is a supreme partnership with the terrain and the snowy surface. It is way beyond imagination. The full technicolor experience didn't just happen because your daddy gave you skiis and dumped you on the top of mountain.

In a couple of weekends you can be a skiing expert. But there is an IF.

You never take a lift. You side step up only. You only slide down sideways with your skiis parallel. At some point you get too tired to continue and the sun is setting.

The IF is this: Work is required.

The work is the decoder. By working, you do the substantiation just like every other expert practitioner of any methods ever used. The cryptology expertise you gain is simply because your mind gets organized and what is in it now gets moved to the back row and blocked from view because something which has been worked for takes its place.

It may be that right now your mind can only evaluate what you have not worked on in terms of what is in your mind presently. If you see something that has a name then that is what the reference is that is in your mind. Most people tell me they are seeing gibberish. This reference system is not good for them to be stuck with.

4 out of 5 do not begin. They cannot take the personal risk involved. They may have figured out there are no shortcuts for building the mind. If there are no shortcuts they are not investing time. They stick to reading and finding shortcuts for other methods.

The complex problem of putting new things in a mind along side other previously extablished beliefs is a real Tiger.

Curiously, I entered a contest to find out how it worked. So did 12 others. 13 of us had to participate; a person coluldn't drop out. Fortunately for me, nowadays, it keeps a lot of people out of my world.

I need to be viewed in way that is self policing. The greatest aid I have in this is the beliefs of people whose standards are the CW of the financial industry. I fit into the "unbelievable" category of the CW of the financial industry. Witnessing one of these members of the industry try to nail me in a live market is something else.

Regarding item 3, and so you can sleep at night, please suggest to these people you mentioned that they ask questions of someone who lives near them and possibly meet with that person since that person knows he will learn more about what he does by helping others. We have a global critical mass at this point.

Posted by BenzMercedesSL on 10-29-11 01:09 AM:

Quote from SK0:

David, my two cents below. Sorry if I confuse you or anyone for what I am going to say. I stand to be corrected.

By the way, I am not dkm.

Posted by baro-san on 10-29-11 03:22 AM:

Quote from BenzMercedesSL:

Is it correct?

I think you might have something there.

Posted by BenzMercedesSL on 10-29-11 05:43 AM:

This is my endless channel.

Posted by BenzMercedesSL on 10-29-11 05:46 AM:

When I started to learn the SCT, I read the posts in Spyder's threads first (in ET and other trading forums). At first, I only knew some elements called pt1, pt2, pt3, FTT, BO and FBO etc. I didn't know what they were and their relationship.

Then, during my 1st iterative refinement (IR), I knew:
pt 1 (also FTT) -> pt 2 -> pt 3 -> FTT (sequence would be repeated)

My 2nd IR:
pt 1 --(decreasing V, then increasing V)--> pt 2 --(decreasing V)--> pt 3 --(increasing V) --> FTT

My 3rd IR:
pt 1 --(decreasing V then increasing V)--> pt 2 --(decreasing V)--> pt 3 --(increasing V to confirm pt 3) --> FTT

My 4th IR:
The market is fractal. The pt 1 can only break out and go to the pt 2 on the same fractal.

My 5th IR:
pt 1 --(decreasing V then increasing V)--> pt 2 --(decreasing V)--> pt 3 --(increasing V to confirm pt 3) --> (permission to look for signal of change) --> FTT

My 6th IR:
pt 1 --(decreasing V then increasing V)--> pt 2 --(decreasing V)--> pt 3 --(increasing V to confirm pt 3) --> (permission to look for Traverse Level's signal of change) --> FTT

I am still doing my IR now. Studying 'Ten Cases', gaussian, VE, M1, M2.... My current goal is to do a thoroughly annotated chart.

It is difficult to filter the valid and invalid information found in the old threads. Many terms were introduced at that time....

Posted by BenzMercedesSL on 10-29-11 05:48 AM:

Quote from baro-san:

I think you might have something there.

Thanks, baro-san!

Posted by TIKITRADER on 10-29-11 05:56 AM:

Quote from BenzMercedesSL:

By the way, I am not dkm.

good guy ... would be nice to see him around again.

Posted by Xspurt on 10-29-11 06:12 AM:

Quote from jack hershey:

I have great empathy for those who come upon trading and do their wondering out loud.

Trading to take the market's full offer can be a wonderful experience. It is the standard I attain.

My methods are beyond good and they deserve consideration.

So I have a lot of responsibilities to give care to so that as few people harm themselves when it is possible to prevent harm.

Your questions do not have much to do with improving your trading skills. And it looks like you may need to consider how educating yourself could be improved.

My mission has always been two fold: Have people learn to make money and support the learning of others by passing it forward. They also help solve local problems with their profits and new found time.

I do what I do and go where I go to forward my goals.

For you to realize your potential in life as well as becoming more rational, consider bearing down and beginning carefully to build your mind.

Use the knowledge and skills acquisition that has served you well in the past.

Find someone who can keep you focussed on doing the ordered drills for conducting the process of learning to take the full offer of the market.

You have one goal. To repeat HOW you learned to read or drive a car or learned to ski. BUT you need to apply this same process to build a fully differentiated mind.

For reading you have an alphabet, words formed from letters, their definitions. You know the rules of forming a language from words by using them in an order of appearance. Sentences form complete thoughts and, as used in paragraphs, sentences cooperate to increase the sense and sensitivity of the transfer of information.

Writing books is helpful for understanding how information is transferred. Do some after you are rich.

No one starts with a clean slate or a blank mind. I recommend seeing the "Temple Grandin Story" since she started with a mind that had little wiring.

Your mind has a disadvantage and that often happens to people. So what? Glance through a couple of books on learning and a couple on how the mind works. Get acquainted with your status and what it will take for you to get to an even starting point.

Trading is like learning a body of skills and knowledge just like you did in fifth or seventh grade. You can do it. BUT maybe you will fail of your own accord.

One outcome is having the text of a partnership all written out and put in force. The person you line up to keep you on track, will explain how partnerships work and that you are a partner with the market.

You do not have to trust me but you do have to trust the market. You can't do trust by deciding to trust. For example, I could never trust you at all. You aren't going to help others or spend resources to solve local problems. You are a "taker" instead.

You even failed to decode my unsubstantiated cryptic methods. Those who use them have a key that was denied you and you know that.

Building a mind to excel is done by adding inference after inference, if and only if, they are of "like kind" (Keynes) and there is an underlying logic (Carnap). What emerges is a spectrum of adjacent pieces that is complete and finite. In other words: "A fully differentiated mind" for partnering with the market.

So a rule set does not ever appear. A system appears. It has three parts: a structure, a process within the structure and results come form conducting the process within the structure.

You ski anywhere and it is a supreme partnership with the terrain and the snowy surface. It is way beyond imagination. The full technicolor experience didn't just happen because your daddy gave you skiis and dumped you on the top of mountain.

In a couple of weekends you can be a skiing expert. But there is an IF.

You never take a lift. You side step up only. You only slide down sideways with your skiis parallel. At some point you get too tired to continue and the sun is setting.

The IF is this: Work is required.

The work is the decoder. By working, you do the substantiation just like every other expert practitioner of any methods ever used. The cryptology expertise you gain is simply because your mind gets organized and what is in it now gets moved to the back row and blocked from view because something which has been worked for takes its place.

It may be that right now your mind can only evaluate what you have not worked on in terms of what is in your mind presently. If you see something that has a name then that is what the reference is that is in your mind. Most people tell me they are seeing gibberish. This reference system is not good for them to be stuck with.

4 out of 5 do not begin. They cannot take the personal risk involved. They may have figured out there are no shortcuts for building the mind. If there are no shortcuts they are not investing time. They stick to reading and finding shortcuts for other methods.

The complex problem of putting new things in a mind along side other previously extablished beliefs is a real Tiger.

Curiously, I entered a contest to find out how it worked. So did 12 others. 13 of us had to participate; a person coluldn't drop out. Fortunately for me, nowadays, it keeps a lot of people out of my world.

I need to be viewed in way that is self policing. The greatest aid I have in this is the beliefs of people whose standards are the CW of the financial industry. I fit into the "unbelievable" category of the CW of the financial industry. Witnessing one of these members of the industry try to nail me in a live market is something else.

Regarding item 3, and so you can sleep at night, please suggest to these people you mentioned that they ask questions of someone who lives near them and possibly meet with that person since that person knows he will learn more about what he does by helping others. We have a global critical mass at this point.

What an amazing, astounding and advanced method to obfuscate the simplicity necessary for observation of the natural order of the market.

Yet I am addicted to the entertainment element.

Ya see it's all about control: the more intervention the more confusion, the less control you have and the more the market controls you.

The less you know the more you write, and the less you demonstrate the more you deceive yourself.

Either way, it's an art

Keep it up Jack - it's the weekend.

__________________
Xspurt

Posted by jsp326 on 10-29-11 06:35 AM:

Quote from jack hershey:

Regarding item 3, and so you can sleep at night, please suggest to these people you mentioned that they ask questions of someone who lives near them and possibly meet with that person since that person knows he will learn more about what he does by helping others. We have a global critical mass at this point.

What about the first two questions? You'll probably duck them again, but there they go:

1) Why haven't you entered any more trading contests after getting humiliated back in 2002?

2) Why not post your live signals. Brag all you want about how incredible your method is...no serious trader will care a bit until they see some evidence.

As for the rest of your spiel, I could read stream-of-consciousness self-help stuff in all sorts of other books, blogs, etc. That's not what I asked for.

Posted by Xspurt on 10-29-11 07:53 AM:

Quote from jsp326:

What about the first two questions? You'll probably duck them again, but there they go:

1) Why haven't you entered any more trading contests after getting humiliated back in 2002?

2) Why not post your live signals. Brag all you want about how incredible your method is...no serious trader will care a bit until they see some evidence.

As for the rest of your spiel, I could read stream-of-consciousness self-help stuff in all sorts of other books, blogs, etc. That's not what I asked for.

Ah this is great. Hang on til I get the popcorn and Kool-Aid. Must one of the best rants ever coming up...

__________________
Xspurt

Posted by xiaodre on 10-29-11 09:11 AM:

So you guys are in here to try and debase an 80 year old. Give yourselves a hand.

Posted by oraclewizard77 on 10-29-11 09:28 AM:

He did post a live signal. I got a pm from him with a signal that worked out just as he suggested.

Why do you expect him to hand feed you money? Is it not better to teach someone to fish, then to give them a free fish?

If you get nothing out of his system, then don't follow it. However, people keep coming here and asking for a free system, he is one of the few that provided one.

I could teach someone to trade, but after the time, effort, and money I put into developing my system, I would not do it for free.

Maybe Jack likes to write a long answer, but maybe he is a genius. Do you expect a genius to think like you or me? If his system is long and complicated, do you think the code for those high frequency bots are short and simple? If trading were easy, everyone would do it.

Quote from jsp326:

What about the first two questions? You'll probably duck them again, but there they go:

1) Why haven't you entered any more trading contests after getting humiliated back in 2002?

2) Why not post your live signals. Brag all you want about how incredible your method is...no serious trader will care a bit until they see some evidence.

As for the rest of your spiel, I could read stream-of-consciousness self-help stuff in all sorts of other books, blogs, etc. That's not what I asked for.

Posted by RCG Trader on 10-29-11 03:28 PM:

Quote from oraclewizard77:

He did post a live signal. I got a pm from him with a signal that worked out just as he suggested.

Why do you expect him to hand feed you money? Is it not better to teach someone to fish, then to give them a free fish?

If you get nothing out of his system, then don't follow it. However, people keep coming here and asking for a free system, he is one of the few that provided one.

I could teach someone to trade, but after the time, effort, and money I put into developing my system, I would not do it for free.

Maybe Jack likes to write a long answer, but maybe he is a genius. Do you expect a genius to think like you or me? If his system is long and complicated, do you think the code for those high frequency bots are short and simple? If trading were easy, everyone would do it.

I think it is human nature. I have often told people thru the years to just follow the program. PVT, Rockets, Icebergs, and then SCT. Everyone jumps straight to SCT.

Jack has put together a comprehensive program to help people learn to trade and put a little money in their pocket while they learn. If you cannot keep a Universe of stocks and rotate them accordingly, why would you expect to have the discipline for SCT? But many do think this.

I realized that a lot of people on this site have no education, and let's understand that a college degree does not make one educated, it makes one trained, and there is a huge huge difference between the two.

A program has been laid out over a decade. First learn PVT. Then, be a rocketeer. Then Iceberg. Then SCT. So simple, yet, so hard.

Posted by workwithus on 10-29-11 05:32 PM:

Quote from BenzMercedesSL:

By the way, I am not dkm.

xioxxio?

Posted by jack hershey on 10-30-11 12:50 AM:

Quote from jsp326:

What about the first two questions? You'll probably duck them again, but there they go:

1) Why haven't you entered any more trading contests after getting humiliated back in 2002?

Most of the time, my interest was trading using POA's of professional people.

I magine you are a professional and you want to help the less fortunate, BUT you cannot afford a day a week to do that. I connected to a limit of fifteen such people. I used their POA's given to me to trade their accounts. their wre two consequences: they helped others one day a week and they built their retirement capital.

Think of it as fifteen concurrent trading contests where they had proven to themsleves that they could contribute time to help others.

WOM is how this happened for these people.

My best stock trading day of 17 points net on 100,000 shares was spread over 11 of these type accounts. Maybe you can imagine this as winning the lottery that day.

2) Why not post your live signals. Brag all you want about how incredible your method is...no serious trader will care a bit until they see some evidence.

My live signals are monitored by various people. They coattail trade me and others (regulators (SEC, inparticular)) see me trading multiple large accounts and frontrunniing the market. They convince themselves I am doing something illegal. They issue citations. At that point, my broker's lawyers have to straighten them out. So they get straighterned out and the citations are removed.

Thus what you wanted to happen as you sit on your ass, has happened and the people involved have been straightened out on their mistakes.

As a matter of fact we traded live for over a year in a thread and you were here and you missed out. check the date you joined and check the dates for that year and see that they overlap.

As for the rest of your spiel, I could read stream-of-consciousness self-help stuff in all sorts of other books, blogs, etc. That's not what I asked for.

Reading is a fool's game as has been pointed out to you. You do not "get it" that passive types of wasting time do not work. Things you read may make money for others and NOT you, however.

You are valuable member of ET; you show how failure works.

What I show is that there are many ways to make money. I also show the most valuable paradigm as yet published. People who feel empowered to judge and make the mistaken judgements also prove how the financial industry is screwed up. Now, we have a long term Depression to show for it and we have a non regulated industry that lacks integrity.

I and others who have done the WORK to fully differentiated their minds are parasites of the on going fiasco (see page 199 of Larry Harris). We continue, with immunity nowadays to frontrun the big boys and they push us in taking our profit segments.

You crossed the line in the sand and can no longer reason through how markets work and how to trade them. You built an erroneous belief system which is not differeniated. The consequence is that you and your kind are denied the knowledge and skills of trading the markets.

No one cares, it turns out. 90% of potential traders turn out as you did. Too bad for you and your kind. Get some popcorn and keep reading along side your buddies and the SEC

For others who are doing the drills. (THE "work") You are building your minds to be able to "read" the market just ahead of how and when it unfolds. Soon you will recognize the interlocking order of events on the fractals surrounding your hold/reversal trading routine called MADA.

The movie "Margin Call" is a good example of the two groups who trade the markets. Those who know how the market works and those who do not. I have never seen a financial firm where those in control knew how the market works. Their underlings were powerless.

See "Moneyball" to find out how an astute money manager rises like creme to the top by letting his stat guy (Pete) coach his players to refine and develop their demonstrated skills.

Watch "The Temple Grandin Story" over and over until you figure out how a mind is built from scratch.

I had myself wired last night for an 8 hour recording session. The raw results will be 6,000 pages long. Tuesday, I get the prescription for my new appartatus. From that I will have a specifically tailored machine attached to my oxygen collector so I will not be permitted to stop breathing at night ever a gain. I had my first expeience of a machine pumping up my blocked system to the point that my system woke me up each time the pressure got released through my closed mouth which was blown open to wake me up. It is such a cool thing to get wired up to make a machine handle the symptoms by brain wasn't handling.

I get my bionic eyes sandpapered in laser surgery on the ninth.... Got got trifocal lenses and I regrew my cornea's after they punched about 70 small holes in my pupil boundaries for pressure control (to keep my retina's attached).

Popcorn is such a good idea for the non learning public who just reads and stays in the CW of the financial industry. Watching them do their Behavioral Finance errors and shortcomings is a lesson to us all. (See "BF or BS?" on Behavioral Financial home page. Also read the mistaken pseudo science of Andrew Lo of MIT and Congressional Testimony fame.

B2B 2R 2B ....lol

How neat it is to move from three up/downs to two left/right triads.

The Holy Grail turns out to be an orientation that is orthogonal to the CW.

What a cool paradigm shift!!!!!!! The blind can't see it at all and they prove they can't.

Party time for me.....

Posted by mcdull on 10-30-11 01:32 AM:

Quote from oraclewizard77:

He did post a live signal. I got a pm from him with a signal that worked out just as he suggested.

Why do you expect him to hand feed you money? Is it not better to teach someone to fish, then to give them a free fish?

If you get nothing out of his system, then don't follow it. However, people keep coming here and asking for a free system, he is one of the few that provided one.

I could teach someone to trade, but after the time, effort, and money I put into developing my system, I would not do it for free.

Maybe Jack likes to write a long answer, but maybe he is a genius. Do you expect a genius to think like you or me? If his system is long and complicated, do you think the code for those high frequency bots are short and simple? If trading were easy, everyone would do it.

Hi oraclewizard,

Where can I find Jack's live signal post?

Thanks & Regards,

Posted by stock777 on 10-30-11 02:05 AM:

When it comes to Jack here's the best advice I can give you.

Which sense do you rely on when you're not sure of a certain food that you're about to consume has gone bad?

Why, it's the later, of course. Our brains were hardwired a long time ago to trust our sense of smell over every other sense.

When it comes to anything Jack writes, remember this: if it looks like candy but smells like bullshit it ain't candy...

http://www.urbandictionary.com/defi...=hershey+squirt

__________________
"Those that know ain't saying, and those saying don't know." - E. A. Neumann

A bear since 1958 and proud of it.

Posted by bmwhendrix on 10-30-11 02:40 AM:

"As a matter of fact we traded live for over a year in a thread and you were here and you missed out. check the date you joined and check the dates for that year and see that they overlap."

Posted by bmwhendrix on 10-30-11 02:40 AM:

or that the SEC issued and withdrew citations for "frontrunning"?

As they say......I might have been born on a turnip truck, but it wasn't yesterday........... or something like that......

Posted by BenzMercedesSL on 10-30-11 03:41 AM:

Quote from workwithus:

xioxxio?

I am not xioxxio.

He is trading Jack's method although he doesn't know the laterals and FTT.

I am far from this stage. I am only a pre pre pre SCT beginner.

Posted by logic_man on 10-30-11 03:50 AM:

If I had to pose a question to Jack, it would be "Why do you put such an irrationally small amount of capital at-risk on each trade?" I know the stats on my own strategy pretty well and they don't stack up to what Jack claims he's able to do, yet I also know that if I used an aggressive position-sizing method like Kelly or optimal f, with a single year's worth of trades and compounding capital, I would be the entire market. If Jack's strategy is so bullet-proof, he should be risking 50-60% of his capital on each trade (again, according to the aggressive position-sizing methodologies, given that my own strategy results in a 40-50% recommended amount of capital at-risk per trade, not that I take it, but that's what I should do to maximize total profits over time) and making commensurate gains.

Put simply, on the basis of Jack's own claims regarding his accuracy and trade frequency, it is impossible to deduce any outcome other than that he should be many, many times richer than the richest people alive. Anyone who can't see that is blind.

Posted by xiaodre on 10-30-11 05:25 AM:

Monkey, look at the people who actually traded this method, made the calls, and posted their results in their journals, monkey.

Posted by BenzMercedesSL on 10-30-11 09:49 AM:

Quote from baro-san:

I think you might have something there.

I can't "get it"...

It seemed that you didn't annotate the non dom tapes in the last 2 traverses.

Posted by BenzMercedesSL on 10-30-11 10:09 AM:

Quote from SK0:

Pace Acceleration was a concept created by Spyder. Rocket was a term used by Jack way back in 2003 to define Traverse-level trends where the 5-min bars exceed 10,000 contracts each (probably too low for our time now).

A Rocket could look like a Tape but it is not. The non-dominant Tape component of a Rocket could move in dominant direction too. I know it sounds incorrect but I never make it up as that was what Jack said in some of the old posts.

I searched for the rocket's information in ET and read the "beginner rockets.doc", but the information here is quite brief.

Jack mentioned rocket in this thread:

but not much details.

Posted by BenzMercedesSL on 10-30-11 11:30 AM:

I found out the rockets on 26-28 Sept 2011.

Posted by BenzMercedesSL on 10-30-11 11:32 AM:

Rocket on 27 Sept 2011

Posted by BenzMercedesSL on 10-30-11 11:33 AM:

Rocket on 28 Sept 2011

Posted by piezoe on 10-30-11 04:05 PM:

Quote from xiaodre:

Monkey, look at the people who actually traded this method, made the calls, and posted their results in their journals, monkey.

Ummm, can you give a link or two. There is no information here, just a claim that someone did this. It's useless as it is.

Posted by Vienna on 10-30-11 06:16 PM:

Quote from jack hershey:

For others who are doing the drills. (THE "work") .....

Jack, am following your practice advice... this Sunday, am drawing the price bars from Volume only.

First thing I found out is that there is no way that I can do 50 in a weekend lol...takes me about 20 mins per chart, have done 3 today so far. So I guess speed would be a metric for "facility", when I can do a reasonably accurate chart in a few mins.... then I'll switch to doing the vol pane from price only.

Things are popping out though: I found that I could clearly see laterals (beginning to end) from the Volume pane only... a PA bar followed by a big drop...have never done this before, so that's cool...

Best,

Vienna

__________________
Vienna

Posted by Mushroom on 10-30-11 08:34 PM:

For me it is easy to get lost in the fine tune stuff, so I'm only been looking at a 15 min and 5 min chart of ES and drawing channels. For me the 15 min chart is ideal to identify the dominant trends. It's also very easy to spot early when the market is rangebound on this fractal.

I've been papertrading for a while with this strategy: Identify main trend on 15 min chart. Only enter at the right trendline on the 15 min chart, OR if price-volume pattern is a bit unclear, wait for a traverse in the dominant direction and enter on a pullback, which is the same as point 3 on the 5 min chart. Stop behind last swing high-low, target left trendline.

I've had better results with this than with anything else I've tried. So I'm wondering what Jack or people who actually trade channels and price-volume think about this approach? Is this simpel method something that is working with real money and over time?

Posted by nkhoi on 10-30-11 10:02 PM:

Quote from Mushroom:

For me it is easy to get lost in the fine tune stuff, so I'm only been looking at a 15 min and 5 min chart of ES and drawing channels. For me the 15 min chart is ideal to identify the dominant trends. It's also very easy to spot early when the market is rangebound on this fractal.

I've been papertrading for a while with this strategy: Identify main trend on 15 min chart. Only enter at the right trendline on the 15 min chart, OR if price-volume pattern is a bit unclear, wait for a traverse in the dominant direction and enter on a pullback, which is the same as point 3 on the 5 min chart. Stop behind last swing high-low, target left trendline.

I've had better results with this than with anything else I've tried. So I'm wondering what Jack or people who actually trade channels and price-volume think about this approach? Is this simpel method something that is working with real money and over time?

earn when you learn, nothing wrong with making money using a subset of the method.

Posted by jack hershey on 10-30-11 10:46 PM:

Quote from Mushroom:

For me it is easy to get lost in the fine tune stuff, so I'm only been looking at a 15 min and 5 min chart of ES and drawing channels. For me the 15 min chart is ideal to identify the dominant trends. It's also very easy to spot early when the market is rangebound on this fractal.

I've been papertrading for a while with this strategy: Identify main trend on 15 min chart. Only enter at the right trendline on the 15 min chart, OR if price-volume pattern is a bit unclear, wait for a traverse in the dominant direction and enter on a pullback, which is the same as point 3 on the 5 min chart. Stop behind last swing high-low, target left trendline.

I've had better results with this than with anything else I've tried. So I'm wondering what Jack or people who actually trade channels and price-volume think about this approach? Is this simpel method something that is working with real money and over time?

This is the most common subset of those who wedge in an invention or are coming from a price only type strategy.

Your earings doing 1/3 of the approach approach the high end trades in the CW orientation. Two people epitimize this level: nodoji and RN.

If you have followed the prof, you see his non time approach is about 1/6 of the PEP approach.

You substitute for annotating Monitoring and analysis) is to use a family of timed bars. This means you do not connect with the faxt that trends overlap; you just see the "retrace" function in CW.

PEP and its apps swith to the "reversal function" which ends and begins the next trend.

Notice that in all of Covel's books he does not "get" this. Why? It is simple; he only asks skilled people the questions he thinks up as a lagging BO trader. He is still in the up/down, entry/exit world.

Multi family chart people lock themselves into time. To escape time colud be done as logicprof did but he missed the deduction and did induction instead.

See if you can see three fractals all event based on the 5 minute chart. Use volume to introduce yourself to trading fractals that have a neutral bias.

Posted by jack hershey on 10-30-11 11:38 PM:

Quote from logic_man:

If I had to pose a question to Jack, it would be "Why do you put such an irrationally small amount of capital at-risk on each trade?" I know the stats on my own strategy pretty well and they don't stack up to what Jack claims he's able to do, yet I also know that if I used an aggressive position-sizing method like Kelly or optimal f, with a single year's worth of trades and compounding capital, I would be the entire market. If Jack's strategy is so bullet-proof, he should be risking 50-60% of his capital on each trade (again, according to the aggressive position-sizing methodologies, given that my own strategy results in a 40-50% recommended amount of capital at-risk per trade, not that I take it, but that's what I should do to maximize total profits over time) and making commensurate gains.

Put simply, on the basis of Jack's own claims regarding his accuracy and trade frequency, it is impossible to deduce any outcome other than that he should be many, many times richer than the richest people alive. Anyone who can't see that is blind.

Study up on market "capacity".

Also read up on "sweeping" accounts

PEP has three applications to handle these limitations.

Also check out the types and sizes of markets in the various application categories.

Finally repair your definition of a full time trader. Mine is: A full time trader is a person who has not as yet learned to read and partner with markets to take their full offer.

Since you haven't had the experience of trading with skill, you are still an "outsider". That will probably never change for you.

If a person, other than that characterized in Behavioral Finance, recognizes someone making money by demonstrated trades and their results for over a year, then the person pays attention and gets into learning to learn and learning to trade.

We spent about six years making a record of how to learn PEP and its three applications. All reduce to one pagers.

Posted by jack hershey on 10-30-11 11:44 PM:

Here is a drill in the form of doing a deductive proof.

logic man cannot work through this type of market consideration, apparently. He is excused.

The obvious is obvious to the Scientific mind.

Nothing is obvious to the betting mind.

Here is one sentence for you to figure out, deductively:

Three up/down pairs do NOT work (Boyd and his OODA); only two left/right/left triads will work (the PEP and its applications using MADA).

Play geometry and do a proof (deductive) on one page of paper.

Posted by jack hershey on 10-30-11 11:49 PM:

Once you put enough info on a sheet of paper, take two new sheets and write out each approach. Use P and V columns for each.

Treat yourself to this cardinal analysis of the causal factors for CW trading failure.

As you do up/down pairs, look really closely to see the dilemma of the CW oriented trader.

Really look at the consternation this person must face as he sees his pairs are NOT CONSISTANT.

I have rarely seen anyone who went very far down the CW rabbit hole be able to recover from the way the mind's belief system support continued confusion. Look at RN's most recent chart posting.

Posted by TIKITRADER on 10-30-11 11:59 PM:

This is an old chart I posted here. Cases, containers, doms -non doms, fun chart.
Jack, want to dissect this and correct any mistakes ?

Posted by Mushroom on 10-31-11 12:48 AM:

Quote from jack hershey:

This is the most common subset of those who wedge in an invention or are coming from a price only type strategy.

Your earings doing 1/3 of the approach approach the high end trades in the CW orientation. Two people epitimize this level: nodoji and RN.

If you have followed the prof, you see his non time approach is about 1/6 of the PEP approach.

You substitute for annotating Monitoring and analysis) is to use a family of timed bars. This means you do not connect with the faxt that trends overlap; you just see the "retrace" function in CW.

PEP and its apps swith to the "reversal function" which ends and begins the next trend.

Notice that in all of Covel's books he does not "get" this. Why? It is simple; he only asks skilled people the questions he thinks up as a lagging BO trader. He is still in the up/down, entry/exit world.

Multi family chart people lock themselves into time. To escape time colud be done as logicprof did but he missed the deduction and did induction instead.

See if you can see three fractals all event based on the 5 minute chart. Use volume to introduce yourself to trading fractals that have a neutral bias.

I don't know if I fully understand what you say, but I annotate three overlapping channels on my 5 min chart. i know there are trends in trends in trends... and so on. Just saying that some trends are more likely to take off strong and move a long way, which makes them safer to trade when your not experienced and have a habit of missing half of what's going on during the day cause your brain can't keep up with all the information .

Posted by Vienna on 10-31-11 01:11 AM:

compressing experience

Up to 11 charts... this is pretty cool, I could locate most pt 123's and FTT's on the Gaussians before even drawing a single price bar. Want to get to the point where this becomes automatic...

Vienna

__________________
Vienna

Posted by Vienna on 10-31-11 01:12 AM:

Compressing experience

Did not take the attachment

__________________
Vienna

Posted by BenzMercedesSL on 10-31-11 01:30 AM:

I found that the rockets could be a trading fractal thing or a faster fractal thing.

What should I look at to differentiate those rockets? Any drills?

Posted by logic_man on 10-31-11 01:47 AM:

Quote from jack hershey:

Study up on market "capacity".

Also read up on "sweeping" accounts

PEP has three applications to handle these limitations.

Also check out the types and sizes of markets in the various application categories.

Finally repair your definition of a full time trader. Mine is: A full time trader is a person who has not as yet learned to read and partner with markets to take their full offer.

Since you haven't had the experience of trading with skill, you are still an "outsider". That will probably never change for you.

If a person, other than that characterized in Behavioral Finance, recognizes someone making money by demonstrated trades and their results for over a year, then the person pays attention and gets into learning to learn and learning to trade.

We spent about six years making a record of how to learn PEP and its three applications. All reduce to one pagers.

At any given minute of the day, a trader can sell 50 ES contracts with minimal slippage and 100 ES contracts with definitely less than 1 ES point of slippage. If you could take 3X the daily ATR on the ES with 50 contracts for the past decade, you would be the richest person in the world or one of them. Then, if you exhausted the capacity of the ES, there are, at any given minute of the day, a good 200-300 stocks within the S&P index which are showing strongly correlated directional and size moves to the index itself, which means another relative ocean of liquidity is open to a trader who knows how to "take the market's offer". Then, there is the NQ and the TF and the YM, the European indices, correlated currencies, etc., etc.

If you are going to "take the market's offer", it makes no logical sense not to take it in the size in which it is given, regardless of the instrument in which it is being given.

Also, just to point out the flaw in your "reasoning" about my skill level. If I weren't "trading with skill", my critique of your approach would probably focus on the market analysis and your trade entry, management and exit approaches, in an effort to debunk them. Notice, though, that I don't even have the need to debunk them because it's too trite a critique and not worth my time. The fact that I focus on the necessary deductions that stem from your performance claims, as it relates to position-sizing, shows that I am WAY past caring about your techniques, which I find useless because my "skill level" is way past needing any help from you.

Posted by maxpi on 10-31-11 02:43 AM:

Quote from logic_man:

At any given minute of the day, a trader can sell 50 ES contracts with minimal slippage and 100 ES contracts with definitely less than 1 ES point of slippage. If you could take 3X the daily ATR on the ES with 50 contracts for the past decade, you would be the richest person in the world or one of them. Then, if you exhausted the capacity of the ES, there are, at any given minute of the day, a good 200-300 stocks within the S&P index which are showing strongly correlated directional and size moves to the index itself, which means another relative ocean of liquidity is open to a trader who knows how to "take the market's offer". Then, there is the NQ and the TF and the YM, the European indices, correlated currencies, etc., etc.

If you are going to "take the market's offer", it makes no logical sense not to take it in the size in which it is given, regardless of the instrument in which it is being given.

Also, just to point out the flaw in your "reasoning" about my skill level. If I weren't "trading with skill", my critique of your approach would probably focus on the market analysis and your trade entry, management and exit approaches, in an effort to debunk them. Notice, though, that I don't even have the need to debunk them because it's too trite a critique and not worth my time. The fact that I focus on the necessary deductions that stem from your performance claims, as it relates to position-sizing, shows that I am WAY past caring about your techniques, which I find useless because my "skill level" is way past needing any help from you.

arguing with psychopaths is talking to a wall.. they are naturally skilled at NLP command-embedding speech, they are three years old emotionally and they only want to be aggrandized. If you are not one of their trained followers you are not anybody worth their time...

Posted by logic_man on 10-31-11 03:11 AM:

Quote from maxpi:

arguing with psychopaths is talking to a wall.. they are naturally skilled at NLP command-embedding speech, they are three years old emotionally and they only want to be aggrandized. If you are not one of their trained followers you are not anybody worth their time...

Most definitely. I just like to do the math on someone who talks big, to see if it's feasible that the talker is achieving what he claims. Clearly, no trader can compound an account to infinity, but, for all practical purposes, a trader who was able to accomplish what Jack claims SHOULD be able to take home hundreds of thousands of dollars per day.

But, yeah, whenever I read his posts, I thank my lucky stars that I never came across them when I was young and stupid enough to have thought they could be worthwhile.

Posted by RCG Trader on 10-31-11 03:21 PM:

Quote from BenzMercedesSL:

Rocket on 28 Sept 2011

Rocketeering.........

Posted by jsp326 on 10-31-11 04:59 PM:

Quote from xiaodre:

So you guys are in here to try and debase an 80 year old. Give yourselves a hand.

Yes, no matter how much time and money have been lost following his arcane nonsense, let's give him a break due to his age.

I'm sure you're really consistent and said the same about Bernie Madoff, right?

Got to give Jack some credit: he certainly has gathered a non-thinking cult of lemmings. Jim Jones would be proud!

Posted by jack hershey on 10-31-11 05:06 PM:

Quote from logic_man:

Most definitely. I just like to do the math on someone who talks big, to see if it's feasible that the talker is achieving what he claims. Clearly, no trader can compound an account to infinity, but, for all practical purposes, a trader who was able to accomplish what Jack claims SHOULD be able to take home hundreds of thousands of dollars per day.

But, yeah, whenever I read his posts, I thank my lucky stars that I never came across them when I was young and stupid enough to have thought they could be worthwhile.

Your estimate of me is a little low.

I dispose of capital as I have continually suggested.

Pool extraction is the first step in problem solving for me.

I have suggested many times how any person is affected by some of the problems we have worked upon.

You probably notice there are many left to deal with.

I feel the heirarchy is money, power and information. Therefore, money is taken off the table by extracting it and redirecting it to those empowered to solve problems. So also, I support their gaining the info to do that. One of my ways of institutionalizing solutions is to write books or make sure they are written.

If and when a person begins to extract capital from markets, he has to deal with the utility of the extracted capital. I give capital utility by applying it to problem solving.

4 out of 5 people pass on my approaches and recommendations. This ratio may seem poor to some. To others, they recognize just what it means. Do not think it was easy to install a filter to keep greedy people with no purposes away from pool extraction.

A good example of greedy people combining their wasting of time is the bunch of types of people you get to observe in "Margin Call". None of them "get it" at all. Just a bunch of super dupers.

As you can see, since I have explained it to you a little further, my primary concerns are the application of capital to solve local and global problems.

I am a parasitic, technical speculator as noted on page 199 of Larry Harris's book. This empowers me to frontrun big money and be pushed by big money.

You are glad you avoided getting mixed up in the approach. My benefit is that we never see each other or work on anything together.

How many exchanges parallel the ES market? I remember when you could only trade the big DJ contract. At that time a "Greenspan" was a measure of a 150 point move. LOL ....

Posted by Vienna on 10-31-11 05:10 PM:

Question to Jack

Hello Jack,

quick question please: you posted this in another thread...I am aware this was a fast "sketch", just making sure I get the point...the questions are in the attachment.

Thanks as always!

Best,

Vienna

__________________
Vienna

Posted by jsp326 on 10-31-11 05:13 PM:

Quote from jack hershey:

For others who are doing the drills. (THE "work") You are building your minds to be able to "read" the market just ahead of how and when it unfolds. Soon you will recognize the interlocking order of events on the fractals surrounding your hold/reversal trading routine called MADA.

The movie "Margin Call" is a good example of the two groups who trade the markets. Those who know how the market works and those who do not. I have never seen a financial firm where those in control knew how the market works. Their underlings were powerless.

See "Moneyball" to find out how an astute money manager rises like creme to the top by letting his stat guy (Pete) coach his players to refine and develop their demonstrated skills.

Watch "The Temple Grandin Story" over and over until you figure out how a mind is built from scratch.

I had myself wired last night for an 8 hour recording session. The raw results will be 6,000 pages long. Tuesday, I get the prescription for my new appartatus. From that I will have a specifically tailored machine attached to my oxygen collector so I will not be permitted to stop breathing at night ever a gain. I had my first expeience of a machine pumping up my blocked system to the point that my system woke me up each time the pressure got released through my closed mouth which was blown open to wake me up. It is such a cool thing to get wired up to make a machine handle the symptoms by brain wasn't handling.

I get my bionic eyes sandpapered in laser surgery on the ninth.... Got got trifocal lenses and I regrew my cornea's after they punched about 70 small holes in my pupil boundaries for pressure control (to keep my retina's attached).

Popcorn is such a good idea for the non learning public who just reads and stays in the CW of the financial industry. Watching them do their Behavioral Finance errors and shortcomings is a lesson to us all. (See "BF or BS?" on Behavioral Financial home page. Also read the mistaken pseudo science of Andrew Lo of MIT and Congressional Testimony fame.

B2B 2R 2B ....lol

How neat it is to move from three up/downs to two left/right triads.

The Holy Grail turns out to be an orientation that is orthogonal to the CW.

What a cool paradigm shift!!!!!!! The blind can't see it at all and they prove they can't.

Party time for me.....

I am the egg man, I am the egg man, I am the walrus, goo goo ga joob.

Come back then and we'll talk.

Posted by jack hershey on 10-31-11 05:23 PM:

Quote from jsp326:

I am the egg man, I am the egg man, I am the walrus, goo goo ga joob.

Come back then and we'll talk.

We did that in ET.

Get up to date.

Let's not talk anymore, you are too far behind the times.

We also stopped the bait and switch types on C2. Did you notice when my name was removed from those accounts? Probably not.

Posted by Vienna on 10-31-11 05:35 PM:

Re: Question to Jack

Quote from Vienna:

Hello Jack,

quick question please: you posted this in another thread...I am aware this was a fast "sketch", just making sure I get the point...the questions are in the attachment.

Thanks as always!

Best,

Vienna

And 2 more if I may:
- what is a price trough? a bar that makes a LL relative to both adjacent bars right? OR just a bar that is one bar down from a peak (b 15? You have it as T)
-B16 should be a Vol P, not a "U" right?

TYVM!

Vienna

__________________
Vienna

Posted by jack hershey on 10-31-11 05:58 PM:

Re: Question to Jack

Quote from Vienna:

Hello Jack,

quick question please: you posted this in another thread...I am aware this was a fast "sketch", just making sure I get the point...the questions are in the attachment.

Thanks as always!

Best,

Vienna

The log I jotted down was an events based list.

Under time, all I did was number to order of events.

I just listed what happens on "the Pattern" for a cycle which would include a long and a short in any order.

Your P,V is a more complex chart illustration.

All I wanted to achieve was a log of the simplest order of events.

My feeling is that if a person starts with a foundation, he can add building blocks as required to achieve having a fintie and fully differentiated mind.

The B2B 2R 2B is three parts. Part one involves tend overlap beginning and ending. B2 is those events. A peak of volume goes to a traough at the moment the price crosses the former RTL of the prior trend. This is called the BO of the RTL (at a volume trough) Price is a portion of the way through its first movement called B2B. B2B means Balck to Black and thus is a long first move of a trend. At the B after the 2, the price arrives at point 2 of the new parallelogram.

When you hitched the price volume chart to the log list, you didn't do yourself a favor in any way.

I can never imagine what anyone will do to what I post. I correct it to contribute to getting a common page for both of us.

The market is very simple. Its representation has to be simple as well.

It would be very illogical for the market to turn out any other way since is is so large and has so many parasites called the financial industry.

The financial industry lobbies and cheats to make up new things faster than the regulators can keep them honest.

What is so neat about all of this is that the huge markets are, in fact, self policing and these perpetrators kind beat themsleves in any way. when they do something like serious big time cheating (swaps being tranched), they really get screwed and take all the financial planners and their clients with them.

To have our immunity to this takes scientific integrity on the level of the laws of gravity, and field theory, etc....

the log, the pattern and all the sets are a system based on how the basic and fundametal building blocks of Science must be deployed.

cheaters and shortcut types can't get this. covel immersed himself for 8 years in the societiety and culture of financial industry preactioners. And he became one of them.

we do not do that. we come to markets and just take out of the market the full offer of the market.

We build the simplest rationally based foundation.

It is a container that can signal the beginning and end of a market episode based upon events that can strech or shrink like an accordian.

For me I want along inventing many many "outsider tools" so as an adjunct I had 10 to 12 leading indicators of the price I made money trading. Some are very humorous in their construction.

But the serious business required a foundation. And on top of that go the building blocks. thisstuffis deductively reasoned out. It could be no other way.

To do thePEP and it applications, you must relax and begin with a clean slate. It is like going into a new science; do not bring any baggage.

the variable of the markets has to be a binary vector. I know some people think they have figures out I am using poor ill defined terminology. that turns out to be their problem and they go away and never return.

A binary vector has magnitude and direction in a non-continuous mathematics. No probability is used by obeying the market's dictate of long or short. How steep the market is tipped is the magnitude. the slope is the direction: long or short.

money can only be made with price change.

Make a 5 cycle log. Use the one letter symbols I have provided.

Implant in your mind the foundation.

Posted by jsp326 on 10-31-11 06:25 PM:

Quote from jack hershey:

We did that in ET.

Get up to date.

Let's not talk anymore, you are too far behind the times.

Links please. If you can ramble incessantly, it shouldn't be hard to provide hard evidence instead of obfuscation and unsubstantiated claims.

Posted by Vienna on 10-31-11 08:49 PM:

Re: Re: Question to Jack

Quote from jack hershey:

The log I jotted down was an events based list.

All I wanted to achieve was a log of the simplest order of events.

Ok, then- in order to do this correctly- could I clarify your Symbols?

BO= Breakout
- does that mean breakout of a tape? Such as the tape from pt 1-pt2?

Thanks!

Vienna

__________________
Vienna

Posted by Vienna on 10-31-11 08:54 PM:

Re: Re: Question to Jack

Quote from jack hershey:

The log I jotted down was an events based list.

The next question would be:

R = Right
- that means a move towards the RTL, correct?
- What happens if you have an IBGS? Does that still count as an "R"?

TYVM,

Vienna

P.S. I am aware that these questions are probably elementary. Just don't want to start with a misinterpretation of your words....thanks for your patience!

__________________
Vienna

Posted by Vienna on 10-31-11 08:59 PM:

Re: Re: Question to Jack

Quote from jack hershey:

The log I jotted down was an events based list.

T= Trough

My last question relates to TROUGHS for the PrIce Column.
A trough is simply a bar that makes a LL relative to it's 2 adjacent bars, correct?

Thanks,

Vienna

__________________
Vienna

Posted by jack hershey on 10-31-11 09:32 PM:

Quote from jsp326:

Links please. If you can ramble incessantly, it shouldn't be hard to provide hard evidence instead of obfuscation and unsubstantiated claims.

My answers to you were short and sweet.

What I post technically and financially is out of your ball park.

We posted our trades in advamce and then the results for over a year in threads in forums.

Secondly, you have available time stamped typed conversations in sevral kinds of chat rooms (here in ET and elsewhere).

To make it simple for you I always use my name wherever I am.

It is true that those with crapped up minds cannot get through my filters. I appear to be speaking a foreign language to them. Then, as you do, state that the filter is working.

Check with the SEC for their mistaken sizing me up as an "insider trader". If a person is cited for insider trading and he isn't, then he is making money in a way that is not understood by the public or the regulators. You fit those categories.

Your judgements of me are just what I need from a detractor.

Try going away by putting me on ignore; make me disappear.

Posted by jack hershey on 10-31-11 10:24 PM:

Hi Vienna:

I listed the letters and what they stood for on my brief log.

Under time you see a list of events.

Events 1 through 9 are a short trend.

Events 9 to 17 are a long trend.

each trend is completed by 9 events.

If you have a chart of "the Pattern" it is the same as the log.

You posted a chart that is a lot of bars and it represents a period where the market is going short and accelerates while doing so.

I was trying to explain how two parallelograms formed a cycle. I didn't get much of anything across as usual.

Recently, I posted an alternative request that a person do a proof to figure out how the pattern is the only possible solution to how the market works.

Imbedded in that proof is the cause of the consternation of the CW type traders who only see up/down pairs.

My objective was simple. I wanted to provide the information for soing the drill to learn and get into the mind the cycle of the market.

If it is possible for a person to imprint his mind with the events of a cycle by repetition, then he has a foundation upon which to build.

The giant and humungus secret of expert trading is to understand that trends MUST overlap and they do when a reversal begins and they do NOT when a retrace begins.

A point 1 of a parallelogram is the magic moment of an FTT and a beginning of overlap on a reversal.

Left is the dominant movement of price. right is the non dominant movement of price.

A person who is LOCKED INTO an up/down world is permanently screwed from being wealthy unless he is a salesman in the financial indusrty.

I tried with single letters and single words and the most simple container to help anyone learn to build a foundation for learning how markets work.

The market is cyclic. the cycle can be deduced and put into symbols.

B2B 2R 2B followed by R2R 2B 2R.....

The above gibberish as it is called, means something. It explains the ORDER OF EVENTS OF MARKETS.

Think about one thing for a while: Why must trends overlap?

The answer is that trends fail in the middle of their container.

This revelation is very significant.

The mind IS capable of figuring this out and making use of it to make more money than any movie so far has presented.

Start in the middle at FTT and work your way outward in two directions until you see things repeating.

Begin with a simple set of trends; see their interconnection and see the rigid interlocking of fractals that results.

This is the great thing about markets; most people's minds are so screwed up they cannot think in any way but how they were trained by Sister Wanda.

DO NOT MEMORIZE. Instead deductively build your mind with a set of inference that is deduced and matches what may be seen

Posted by nkhoi on 10-31-11 11:21 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Question to Jack

Quote from Vienna:

T= Trough

My last question relates to TROUGHS for the PrIce Column.
A trough is simply a bar that makes a LL relative to it's 2 adjacent bars, correct?

Thanks,

Vienna

refer to 'the pattern'

Posted by Vienna on 10-31-11 11:27 PM:

Quote from jack hershey:

Hi Vienna:

I listed the letters and what they stood for on my brief log.

Jack,

I got your meaning! See attached...sorry for being dense. Sometimes I have to draw something to understand it....

Vienna

__________________
Vienna

Posted by BenzMercedesSL on 11-01-11 01:30 AM:

Rocketeering.........

Posted by Trend Following on 11-01-11 02:07 AM:

Re: Re: Question to Jack

I would like to see this nut Hershey put a book out.

Quote from jack hershey:

The log I jotted down was an events based list.

Under time, all I did was number to order of events.

I just listed what happens on "the Pattern" for a cycle which would include a long and a short in any order.

Your P,V is a more complex chart illustration.

All I wanted to achieve was a log of the simplest order of events.

My feeling is that if a person starts with a foundation, he can add building blocks as required to achieve having a fintie and fully differentiated mind.

The B2B 2R 2B is three parts. Part one involves tend overlap beginning and ending. B2 is those events. A peak of volume goes to a traough at the moment the price crosses the former RTL of the prior trend. This is called the BO of the RTL (at a volume trough) Price is a portion of the way through its first movement called B2B. B2B means Balck to Black and thus is a long first move of a trend. At the B after the 2, the price arrives at point 2 of the new parallelogram.

When you hitched the price volume chart to the log list, you didn't do yourself a favor in any way.

I can never imagine what anyone will do to what I post. I correct it to contribute to getting a common page for both of us.

The market is very simple. Its representation has to be simple as well.

It would be very illogical for the market to turn out any other way since is is so large and has so many parasites called the financial industry.

The financial industry lobbies and cheats to make up new things faster than the regulators can keep them honest.

What is so neat about all of this is that the huge markets are, in fact, self policing and these perpetrators kind beat themsleves in any way. when they do something like serious big time cheating (swaps being tranched), they really get screwed and take all the financial planners and their clients with them.

To have our immunity to this takes scientific integrity on the level of the laws of gravity, and field theory, etc....

the log, the pattern and all the sets are a system based on how the basic and fundametal building blocks of Science must be deployed.

cheaters and shortcut types can't get this. covel immersed himself for 8 years in the societiety and culture of financial industry preactioners. And he became one of them.

we do not do that. we come to markets and just take out of the market the full offer of the market.

We build the simplest rationally based foundation.

It is a container that can signal the beginning and end of a market episode based upon events that can strech or shrink like an accordian.

For me I want along inventing many many "outsider tools" so as an adjunct I had 10 to 12 leading indicators of the price I made money trading. Some are very humorous in their construction.

But the serious business required a foundation. And on top of that go the building blocks. thisstuffis deductively reasoned out. It could be no other way.

To do thePEP and it applications, you must relax and begin with a clean slate. It is like going into a new science; do not bring any baggage.

the variable of the markets has to be a binary vector. I know some people think they have figures out I am using poor ill defined terminology. that turns out to be their problem and they go away and never return.

A binary vector has magnitude and direction in a non-continuous mathematics. No probability is used by obeying the market's dictate of long or short. How steep the market is tipped is the magnitude. the slope is the direction: long or short.

money can only be made with price change.

Make a 5 cycle log. Use the one letter symbols I have provided.

Implant in your mind the foundation.

__________________
Covel Books: Trend Commandments, The Little Book of Trading, The Complete TurtleTrader & Trend Following

Posted by SK0 on 11-01-11 05:52 AM:

Quote from Vienna:

Jack,

I got your meaning! See attached...sorry for being dense. Sometimes I have to draw something to understand it....

Vienna

Jack never use Peak (P) or Trough (T) to define or describe price. I believe that some typing errors occur in the table of P V order of events. (http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/attac...&postid=3339789)

The following is how I see it. Stand to be corrected.

Posted by SK0 on 11-01-11 06:30 AM:

Jack,

Do you think the Score sequence in following The Pattern graph you posted is incorrect?

Posted by SK0 on 11-01-11 06:33 AM:

I moved the score numbers in The Pattern graph as shown below.

Posted by RCG Trader on 11-01-11 11:27 AM:

Quote from SK0:

I moved the score numbers in The Pattern graph as shown below.

You fellas do realize this if PVT, right?

PVT, Rocketeer, Iceberger, SCT. Follow the program!

Posted by RCG Trader on 11-01-11 11:28 AM:

Quote from BenzMercedesSL:

No worries. Just remember to follow the program. There is a reason it is in the order it is in.

Posted by BenzMercedesSL on 11-01-11 12:06 PM:

I realized that a lot of people on this site have no education, and let's understand that a college degree does not make one educated, it makes one trained, and there is a huge huge difference between the two.

Totally agreed!

I am a typical "worker" trained by the education system. I thought I "learned" in the high school and the university. At that time, learning was to memorize everything and got pass in the exams. I didn't understand the thing I memorized.

I was a CW....I am still a CW (e.g. only believe the authority like jack or spyder instead of believing the market), but trying to change my mindset.

A degree is an admission ticket to get a job or just a job interview.

I can't trade profitably by memorizing all the definitions. I have to understand what the elements are.

I can memorize the ten cases (also the color and the lines), but I don't know how to apply them to annotation/trading.

Posted by SK0 on 11-01-11 03:16 PM:

You fellas do realize this if PVT, right?

PVT, Rocketeer, Iceberger, SCT. Follow the program!

Oh, Steady. You sound like my oldy-day drill sergeant.

Am I a moron on PVT because of my question pertaining to the Score numbers on the chart?

Few weeks ago, I put up a picture of Jack's desktop display (9-15-2009) in TL. Somebody hammered me saying I lied because Jack never use indicators. May be you are right that people need to learn to trade Rocket, Iceberge in four levels, Slaloming, Failed Resumption, and If1/If2 APA Protection SCT strategies, etc etc, step by step.

I believe that the Pattern is basic and universal. When you have the pieces gelled together, whether PVT or SCT or SK0 Methodology, they are all the same.

Posted by workwithus on 11-01-11 05:08 PM:

Quote from Vienna:

Jack,

I got your meaning! See attached...sorry for being dense. Sometimes I have to draw something to understand it....

Vienna

Good job vienna decoding jack's "gibberish"(lol).I believe event 16 under the price column should be an "L" instead of an "U".Also jack pretty much spelled out the direction of the two containers he logged.Per jack, "Under time you see a list of events.

Events 1 through 9 are a short trend.

Events 9 to 17 are a long trend.

each trend is completed by 9 events".Short than long instead of long than short.hth

Posted by RCG Trader on 11-01-11 05:20 PM:

Quote from SK0:

Oh, Steady. You sound like my oldy-day drill sergeant.

Am I a moron on PVT because of my question pertaining to the Score numbers on the chart?

Few weeks ago, I put up a picture of Jack's desktop display (9-15-2009) in TL. Somebody hammered me saying I lied because Jack never use indicators. May be you are right that people need to learn to trade Rocket, Iceberge in four levels, Slaloming, Failed Resumption, and If1/If2 APA Protection SCT strategies, etc etc, step by step.

I believe that the Pattern is basic and universal. When you have the pieces gelled together, whether PVT or SCT or SK0 Methodology, they are all the same.

In fact, you are correct. The pattern is universal. But to get that pattern encoded in your brain, the average person needs to follow the program as laid out. If you try non-linear Algebra before u understand Pre-Algebra, u will be blown out. The average person just cannot do that.

Posted by Vienna on 11-01-11 05:32 PM:

Quote from workwithus:

Good job vienna decoding ....

Hey, be kind! It became pretty clear once I realized that jack had not responded to the specific chart I had just posted but was laying out the simplest way the pattern completes.

Yes, you are correct about the error- sorry...moving too fast. It was correct on the drawing and wrong in the tabulation.

Corrected V2.0 attached

hth, Vienna

__________________
Vienna

Posted by jack hershey on 11-01-11 06:00 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Question to Jack

Quote from Trend Following:

I would like to see this nut Hershey put a book out.

Currently I have a five book suite on trading reduced to about 12,000 draft pages. It will remain an inhouse adjunct. Your PH editor's boss was assigned to me (in 48 hours) about four years ago. I declined.

To get serious, I am now involved in two books.

One deals with 7 watersheds that interrelate. How fifty years of ranching (and it's photography) have affected this environment is the theme.

My other book with three other authors, will be a 2 milliion press run (and distributed free of charge); It deals with the numero uno problem of the US government and the worldwide military. A cure for PTSD as applied to mulitple deployed boots on the ground. This pre post tested program is viseral and a dramatric response to the futility of war and the ignorance of the brass at the Pentagon.

If you wish you can look at my most recent book which unloaded 400,000 copies in 5 months. Google under the suffix .au

trend folloing does not work. My substitute is trad monitoring and analysis which you term gibberish. you happen to be incorrect on trend following and you are incorrect to dismiss trend monitoring and analysis.

One of the books in the suite focuses on neuroplasticity and explains the differences of what you and your kind preach and how an assortment of experts DO extract the market's offer using a variety of deductive techniques.

Try writing a book with volume in the index. LOL ......

Posted by jack hershey on 11-01-11 06:47 PM:

SKO the difference between the numbers I use and yours is that I relate to the beginnning of trends and you relate to the end of their overlap (the BO place of price).

The reason I posted the deductive problem was to try to switch people over the "reasoning" to put things in their minds.

The Pattern emerges as the only possibility.

Getting a pattern to happen where the point 1 is in the middle of a container and point 2 is "outside" that container is the very fine refinement that makes a whole system gel.

It is like the hexagon in organic chemistry.

Or how an egg can become a chick. The chemical content of before and after do not match, unless........... the unless is having to go to sub atomic pieces.

Take the time to use your six pieces from the two triads and force them into the three pairs of CW. Use dominant and non dominant in your notes and find the obstinent flaw that up/downers cannot get past when trying to build their minds. They cannot build their minds into a systemmic routine because of thsi huge flaw. Look at RN's chart and see his struggle.

As you read anything of covel's you see him time and time again showing the limitatiions of his constituency in that they use "statistics" based on induction to "irrationalize" what they can't do.

He begins with a guy that can make 20% a year. Sit down and find out how long it would take anyone to make money if they used their own money to grow wealth. Making 20% on capital is making 6 points on a one contact trade during about 20 to 40 minutes of price movement in ES. Covel champions a guy who spreads this 20% out over a year.

Lets say it takes longer. Make 6 points in as long as you want. It is NOT going to be a year to do.

The paradigm shift occurred about 50 years ago. No one in the financial industry noticed except for brokers who coattailed us. And the SEC finally got computers and programmers who could not differentiate experts from insiders.

I borrowed 100% to buy a crusing sailboat (US 122, King's cruiser from Gothenburg Sweeden). The term was interest only for two years. I had to pledge in street name 100% stock which I could trade.

For the last 6 months I traded consecutive B's on the NYSE to get a rise out of the fairfiled County Bank and Trust staff. No murmers, even.

then I went in to sell less than half the stock to pay off the entire principal. The guy made the list and used a portion of each holding. He sent my remaining stock to my broker (it was worth much more than the original colateral).

Did anyone notice that I used the toy for two years and it was free in the sense that my colateral more than doubled? No Nada.

This is like covel working as the french detective in a farce where he has the lead role. This guy spent 8 years writing "Trend Following" and actually produced nothing and he never met any experts (there are none in the book) and he doesn't even mention volume or many many other terms in the index.

Have any of your guys ever been to trader's expo and listened to a panel od "Experts You Have Never Heard Of" Why hasn't Covel run into any of these guys? How come I know all their cell phone numbers?

This stuff he writes also sells, apparently. But who buys it? I know. salemen who are selling mutual funds. Sales guys who sell anything that moves to ignorant people. financial crisis originators. maybe regulators. IB's.

I took my free pass to "Margin Call" out of my genes today as I was walking over to open our gates. That whole crew of screw offs didn't get it either. They are just Phoenix's who rise out of the ashes and dupe yet another group of ignorant people.

If you make the pairs from the triads, you will ge a real AHA. Do you think covel could make the list? Nope he can't.

He just calls me names. LOL.

Posted by jack hershey on 11-01-11 07:11 PM:

Quote from Vienna:

Hey, be kind! It became pretty clear once I realized that jack had not responded to the specific chart I had just posted but was laying out the simplest way the pattern completes.

Yes, you are correct about the error- sorry...moving too fast. It was correct on the drawing and wrong in the tabulation.

Corrected V2.0 attached

hth, Vienna

So cool.

It's like DNA.

Now slowly deal with what you HAVE and how three pairs of up down do not work, Just write two columns.

One column for up/down and one column for Dominant/non-dominant.

Use U, D, and DOM and ND.

Make it look like this

U Dom

D ND

U Dom

D Dom

U ND

D Dom

U and D alternate BUT Dom and ND do not alternate.

As the 6 events unfold for a CW trader he always sees what he does not expect.

Can you now see why the three posts of hahahahaha guy turned out the way they did.

He saw a long trend finish and at point 2 of the short he went long again and set targets "outside" of the price domain.

He gets one target (fortunately, by luck) and then the other contracts get taken out on a moved B/E stop. He quits for the day he tells us. Why did he quit? He was doing the six pairs list above and got screwed up mentally.

covel's books are all filled with this pairs of U/D trap. He has a name for the triads of trends: gibberish. The gibberish follows below as two triads:

Long:
U Dom

D ND

U Dom

short:
D Dom

U ND

D Dom

Notice it IS the same list and in the same order.

Now notice if you are "getting it". Does your mind go with the flow of reading things corectly (Triads of completed trends) as they unfold or are you still stuck with covel and his CW way of thinking.

For me it is not hard to grind covel into the ground and destroy his work with the actual facts. The facts speak out loud.

I gave everyone the opportunity to conduct their own discovery process. I feel it is important to do the discovery.

Now you can go through each of covel's books and correct them and mail them to his editors who didn't catch on either.

Read a guy like Jon Netto. His "One Shot, One Kill" is right on the mark.

Semper Fi.

Wasn't all this fun.

Now you get to be a millionaire.

Make money (trend monitoring and analysis); add contracts (compound); have riches (keep a million here and there) (A good book title)

Be Do Have.

Posted by Trend Following on 11-01-11 10:08 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Question to Jack

Bat s*** crazy.

Quote from jack hershey:

Currently I have a five book suite on trading reduced to about 12,000 draft pages. It will remain an inhouse adjunct. Your PH editor's boss was assigned to me (in 48 hours) about four years ago. I declined.

To get serious, I am now involved in two books.

One deals with 7 watersheds that interrelate. How fifty years of ranching (and it's photography) have affected this environment is the theme.

My other book with three other authors, will be a 2 milliion press run (and distributed free of charge); It deals with the numero uno problem of the US government and the worldwide military. A cure for PTSD as applied to mulitple deployed boots on the ground. This pre post tested program is viseral and a dramatric response to the futility of war and the ignorance of the brass at the Pentagon.

If you wish you can look at my most recent book which unloaded 400,000 copies in 5 months. Google under the suffix .au

trend folloing does not work. My substitute is trad monitoring and analysis which you term gibberish. you happen to be incorrect on trend following and you are incorrect to dismiss trend monitoring and analysis.

One of the books in the suite focuses on neuroplasticity and explains the differences of what you and your kind preach and how an assortment of experts DO extract the market's offer using a variety of deductive techniques.

Try writing a book with volume in the index. LOL ......

__________________
Covel Books: Trend Commandments, The Little Book of Trading, The Complete TurtleTrader & Trend Following

Posted by jack hershey on 11-01-11 11:50 PM:

This is an old chart I posted here. Cases, containers, doms -non doms, fun chart.
Jack, want to dissect this and correct any mistakes ?

looks good. See attached for some tweaks

take a gander at that bookmark. See how the long got a little more juice.

Posted by baro-san on 11-01-11 11:53 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Question to Jack

Quote from Trend Following:

Bat s*** crazy.

You can't stand that he has more followers than you have.

Posted by PointOne on 11-02-11 12:31 AM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Question to Jack

Quote from Trend Following:

Bat s*** crazy.

Well he seems to have got under your skin. Too funny. Perhaps there is a book in this after all?

Thanks Jack, I hope you are in fine health (all things considered).

And here's to the crazy ones!

Posted by cowpok1027 on 11-02-11 04:00 AM:

Jack H's Pending Book

Jack,
Can't wait to read your book on US military's "police the world "
strategy.

I've come to believe in the dangers we (USA) create because of this strategy - including economic decline.

I'm 66 & for all of those years we've been the only country spending & fighting wars in the way we have.

cowpok1027

__________________
cowpok

Posted by Vienna on 11-02-11 02:21 PM:

Quote from jack hershey:

So cool.
....Now notice if you are "getting it".

Am I "getting it"?
I think so...one is like a set of perfectly nestled Babushka dolls, and the other is like...just a bunch of dolls, some with their heads missing...:-)

The practice to reach fluency will take time, but at least I am practicing the right "scales"... thanks for allowing that to happen.

best,

Vienna

__________________
Vienna

Posted by GordonTheGekko on 11-02-11 02:46 PM:

When it comes to Jack here's the best advice I can give you.

Which sense do you rely on when you're not sure of a certain food that you're about to consume has gone bad?

Why, it's the later, of course. Our brains were hardwired a long time ago to trust our sense of smell over every other sense.

When it comes to anything Jack writes, remember this: if it looks like candy but smells like bullshit it ain't candy...

isn't he under investigation by its

Posted by GordonTheGekko on 11-02-11 02:55 PM:

irs*

Posted by TIKITRADER on 11-02-11 10:59 PM:

Thanks Jack.

I did not degap this chart which shows the FTT was not correctly placed.
Degapping shows the correct bar for the FTT and Pt 1.
Also the volume correction at the right of chart with the ongoing lateral continuing the pt 2 to pt 3 of that fractal.

Posted by jack hershey on 11-02-11 11:23 PM:

Thanks Jack.

I did not degap this chart which shows the FTT was not correctly placed.
Degapping shows the correct bar for the FTT and Pt 1.
Also the volume correction at the right of chart with the ongoing lateral continuing the pt 2 to pt 3 of that fractal.

YVW.

Posted by bone on 11-03-11 12:05 AM:

Thanks for starting another thread that can only be described as an abortion to logic.

Mercedes, may you contract an STD for gracing us with yet another Hershey malarial flop-sweat.

__________________
Spread, Relative Value, and Correlation Trading Instruction from a Professional Trader. The only thing that matters are Clients making money IN LIVE MARKETS. Why not interview my clients for yourself on an independent basis. My typical client is an outright directional trader looking to pick up an industry-recognized specialty technique. http://www.spreadprofessor.com

Posted by baro-san on 11-03-11 12:37 AM:

Quote from bone:

Thanks for starting another thread that can only be described as an abortion to logic.

Mercedes, may you contract an STD for gracing us with yet another Hershey malarial flop-sweat.

Your name, site name, postings, all is sexual innuendo with you. You're on the wrong site.

Posted by TIKITRADER on 11-03-11 01:02 AM:

Jack,

Would you be so kind as to review one more chart.

ES 5 minute today.
Annotate anything you see to correct, add, highlight.
Volume field left open for anything you wish to add, although the moves in volume are highlighted.
Gap removal was not done here, just connected the move.

Posted by baro-san on 11-03-11 01:33 AM:

Jack,

Would you be so kind as to review one more chart.

ES 5 minute today.
Annotate anything you see to correct, add, highlight.
Volume field left open for anything you wish to add, although the moves in volume are highlighted.
Gap removal was not done here, just connected the move.

I guess your real question (before tomorrow's chart) is: "is the last up-leg done?". Good question for Hershey!

Posted by bone on 11-03-11 01:38 AM:

Quote from baro-san:

Your name, site name, postings, all is sexual innuendo with you. You're on the wrong site.

I cede your point. Well played, sir.

__________________
Spread, Relative Value, and Correlation Trading Instruction from a Professional Trader. The only thing that matters are Clients making money IN LIVE MARKETS. Why not interview my clients for yourself on an independent basis. My typical client is an outright directional trader looking to pick up an industry-recognized specialty technique. http://www.spreadprofessor.com

Posted by Trend Following on 11-03-11 05:30 AM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Question to Jack

Quote from baro-san:

You can't stand that he has more followers than you have.

What is a Jack Hershey follower? Are you one? I don't understand the cult around his market gibberish. Those charts? Well, I wish I had them for my last book. Great examples of pure nonsense.

__________________
Covel Books: Trend Commandments, The Little Book of Trading, The Complete TurtleTrader & Trend Following

Posted by BenzMercedesSL on 11-03-11 11:39 AM:

Quote from bone:

Mercedes, may you contract an STD for gracing us with yet another Hershey malarial flop-sweat.

Nice to meet you.

Posted by BenzMercedesSL on 11-03-11 11:41 AM:

Quote from BenzMercedesSL:

Nice to meet you.

By the way, I am also 'insane'. (Einstein's Insanity)

Posted by bone on 11-03-11 11:45 AM:

Quote from BenzMercedesSL:

By the way, I am also 'insane'. (Einstein's Insanity)

Never mention Einstein's name in a Hershey thread.

Einstein's work was independently proved out by his peers before he was officially recognized for the Nobel Prize and all the eventual accolades.

__________________
Spread, Relative Value, and Correlation Trading Instruction from a Professional Trader. The only thing that matters are Clients making money IN LIVE MARKETS. Why not interview my clients for yourself on an independent basis. My typical client is an outright directional trader looking to pick up an industry-recognized specialty technique. http://www.spreadprofessor.com

Posted by Buy1Sell2 on 11-03-11 01:23 PM:

Jack and his "method(s)" are to be ignored.

Posted by xioxxio on 11-04-11 12:11 AM:

graeigoriast,

Go away, seriously what is wrong with you? You need help. Go play with your leapster.

Posted by Wide Tailz on 11-04-11 03:05 AM:

Quote from graeigoriast:

Fascinating stuff here.

It looks just like classical technical analysis (channeling, volume leading price, breakout retracements, higher lows, etc.)

Complicated language for the same old edge (which still works).

Funny thing about tech analysis is most people gravitate to price patterns, rather than the backbone of the strategy, which is just trend reversal signals.

Going further, elliot wave principle is pretty much hated by 90% or traders, yet is brutally accurate in the right situations. It took me a year of study just to understand the compound nature of the waves. It took another six months of mistakes to understand that certain situations are very, very uncertain, when it is not possible to solve for a wave count.

I'll probably get my nutz kicked for posting this.

Prechter did win a trading championship back in the day, using Elliot Wave.

To win in the market, you have to go where no one is. Stay in phase with the market and out of sync with the suckerz.

Posted by logic_man on 11-04-11 03:29 AM:

Quote from Wide Tailz:

Fascinating stuff here.

It looks just like classical technical analysis (channeling, volume leading price, breakout retracements, higher lows, etc.)

Complicated language for the same old edge (which still works).

Funny thing about tech analysis is most people gravitate to price patterns, rather than the backbone of the strategy, which is just trend reversal signals.

Going further, elliot wave principle is pretty much hated by 90% or traders, yet is brutally accurate in the right situations. It took me a year of study just to understand the compound nature of the waves. It took another six months of mistakes to understand that certain situations are very, very uncertain, when it is not possible to solve for a wave count.

I'll probably get my nutz kicked for posting this.

Prechter did win a trading championship back in the day, using Elliot Wave.

To win in the market, you have to go where no one is. Stay in phase with the market and out of sync with the suckerz.

Here's what matters:

Sell high

All you need to do is define "low" and "high" and you are set. The market does it for you, if you watch it closely enough.

Posted by jsp326 on 11-04-11 01:53 PM:

Wait, what happened to the stuff on Jack's tax lien?

Oh well, back to the Kool-Aid.

http://viralstash.com/financials/ja...o-the-tax-man-3

Posted by nkhoi on 11-04-11 02:17 PM:

Quote from jsp326:

Wait, what happened to the stuff on Jack's tax lien?

..

relax, a simple search yields pages of cut & paste posts on it, you can search and re-read them as much as you want.

Posted by Mushroom on 11-04-11 09:21 PM:

A chart for today with the main channels and FTT:s I could spot, and an area where I was a bit lost. Any comments from Jack or somebody else are welcome.

Posted by nkhoi on 11-04-11 10:04 PM:

Quote from Mushroom:

A chart for today with the main channels and FTT:s I could spot, and an area where I was a bit lost. Any comments from Jack or somebody else are welcome.

you were in a retrace (non dom move) that was peak (max out) volume of the retrace move.

Posted by Mushroom on 11-04-11 10:14 PM:

Quote from nkhoi:

you were in a retrace (non dom move) that was peak (max out) volume of the retrace move.

Thanks for the reply. But in real time I thought it was difficult to get confirmation that I should get out of the short that I entered 12.35 in time but stay in the short that I entered around 14.35.

Posted by baro-san on 11-05-11 01:07 AM:

Quote from Mushroom:

Thanks for the reply. But in real time I thought it was difficult to get confirmation that I should get out of the short that I entered 12.35 in time but stay in the short that I entered around 14.35.

Posted by baro-san on 11-05-11 01:11 AM:

We have a winner:

Posted by Mushroom on 11-05-11 01:31 AM:

Quote from baro-san:

Great post! I didn't think about the bar at 10.40 as a valid point 1. I could see the bar was an ftt, but not by much, and I was already anticipating a longer retrace, so I was looking for a point one/fft to come later. But I guess since black volume picks up around 11, it's already a first dominant leg of a new channel. Your way of seeing it solves my problem, so I guess it's correct

Posted by jack hershey on 11-05-11 01:57 AM:

Hi mushroom,

There are some improvements which will drop into palce for you if you do some cut and pasting over the weekend.

Take a few weeks (Mondays through Fridays, for example) and print them out as clean P, V charts.

Next, degap the charts by gluing them togehter.

Now you have a long chart with 405 bars and, further, you have eliminate the overnight machinations of non RTH's.

The task is to examine how "carryover" works.

To research this you can look at my postings of the various parts of the daily e-mails I used to send out. Two of the daily features were tomorrow's news and the carryover of various fractal levels of the market. Occasionally For detractors I occasionally posted the sequence and timing of the next day's trades as well.

By having tomorrow's news you knew what to expect at given times of the day. Mosre importantly, by having the carryover, you always knew how to get in on the open and make the first multiples of the day.

Now, you have to learn to do carryover yourself and then make use of it each day.

Here is a 'tell on your chart. You do not annotate volume until you get into trouble.

By not creating fear and anxiety at the beginning of each day, you get to remain more rational as the daay goes on.

The Pattern 0on each fractal carries over from day to day and it does NOT have anything to do with the non RTH's.

These ware two big beliefs that you may not have in hand. One way to get them is to accept what the market says. As you do so, then you will find your partnership with the market begins to contain TRUST.

It is important that trust does appear at some point.

As you paste together several clean weeks of 405 bars each and do the required degapping, you can then begin to discover the interlocking fractal relationship by doing all bars relative to each other.

You chart is very poor that you get from your source. Too bad. If you have the 10 cases annotated automatically, you would see much more on the chart.

I took hahahaha guy through the experience of seeing his crude charts have the added degrees of freedom that automatic internals management provides. He didn't get it as we all saw and probably did not catch on to. So life goes for the ignorant.

Focus this weekend on doing the 405 bars from bar one to bar 405. Notice how charts merge to carryover the interlocking fractals. As you do this you will also see how missing internals screws you over and over.

Presently you are not annotating what is observable. You are annotating what you feel like. By just becoming descretionary about doing annotating, you wind up inventing something that does not work.

Elsewhere there is a forum and thread on how the foundation was laid using the cases and deductive reasoning. Print, read and hi lite this to eliminate descretion and rebuild the inference in your mind.

It is tough for me to be dealing with ET these days. I am in a place in my life where it is hard to keep up with the ills of old age. I am actually a very capable and helpful person despite what you continually read about me as posted by people who who have mistaken what they think I said.

My posts are very dense in information content. There is a lot to take in and keep straight. But luckily, after you read the same thing over and over it does take on a precision and completeness.

Watching at criticizing me is a fun thing for some kinds of people. They get the consequences and I have some more humor to read.

Try to imagine what would happen if my results were all public. Try to imagine what it would be like if those I had POA's results were made public. Long ago they were. lol ......

Posted by stepan7 on 11-05-11 03:27 AM:

Quote from baro-san:

Even more:

Posted by stepan7 on 11-05-11 03:39 AM:

Quote from Mushroom:

Great post! I didn't think about the bar at 10.40 as a valid point 1. I could see the bar was an ftt, but not by much, and I was already anticipating a longer retrace, so I was looking for a point one/fft to come later. But I guess since black volume picks up around 11, it's already a first dominant leg of a new channel. Your way of seeing it solves my problem, so I guess it's correct

Look on Jack's "clean_page_4" upside down. New P3 is Higher/Lower P1.

You have clear P3 @ 11:25.

BTW you bar coloring is wrong. Please see attached.

Posted by Mushroom on 11-05-11 05:14 AM:

Thanks Stepan, although I recognised the b2b real time, I didn't think about how it effected the drawing of the channels.

My coloring is wrong because pricebars are "standard", volume is "Jack style". Probably not a good combination.

Jack, I didn't draw the channels subjectively on purpose, I drew them the way I interpret the rules, but I'm gonna check them out more carefully.
But wouldn't you agree that there is a subjective element (skills) when you choose which channels that are most important? For me it gets to messy if I draw every single channel. See attached (probably missed some). For a trained eye it's maybe not a problem but if I draw too many it's difficult for me to distinguish which one's shows the dominant trends. When I looked at a video presentation by one of your "students" who were trading on course level he only drew the main channels and traverses.

Posted by stepan7 on 11-05-11 07:02 AM:

Quote from Mushroom:

Thanks Stepan, although I recognised the b2b real time, I didn't think about how it effected the drawing of the channels.

Volume is the key.

Look on 'The Pattern" by baro-san

and Jack's "clean_page_4"

Posted by DB_sezwhat on 11-05-11 01:06 PM:

Quote from jack hershey:

Hi mushroom,

Take a few weeks (Mondays through Fridays, for example) and print them out as clean P, V charts.

Next, degap the charts by gluing them togehter.

Now you have a long chart with 405 bars and, further, you have eliminate the overnight machinations of non RTH's.

The task is to examine how "carryover" works.....

Posted by Mushroom on 11-05-11 01:13 PM:

Quote from stepan7:

Volume is the key.

Look on 'The Pattern" by baro-san

and Jack's "clean_page_4"

I was expecting that pattern, but I was so caught up with this idea that you draw a new channel from an ftt that I was thinking about the b2b as a "flaw" in a retrace.
I guess it's as simple as this: if you have a higher low in a downtrend you draw a new channel, and opposite for uptrend. Right? The idea that I had to look for a ftt to get a new point 1 made me neglect the b2b.

Posted by Mushroom on 11-05-11 01:26 PM:

Quote from DB_sezwhat:

Really interesting picture. I didn't understand the meaning of degaping, now I get it. Can you do that with all charting software?

Posted by stepan7 on 11-05-11 01:40 PM:

Quote from Mushroom:

I was expecting that pattern, but I was so caught up with this idea that you draw a new channel from an ftt that I was thinking about the b2b as a "flaw" in a retrace.
I guess it's as simple as this: if you have a higher low in a downtrend you draw a new channel, and opposite for uptrend. Right? The idea that I had to look for a ftt to get a new point 1 made me neglect the b2b.

@ 10:40 Bar is peaking red volume and FTT on lower fractal channel not drawn on my chart.

but exists on your's

Posted by DB_sezwhat on 11-05-11 01:44 PM:

Quote from Mushroom:

Really interesting picture. I didn't understand the meaning of degaping, now I get it. Can you do that with all charting software?

I'm not sure, but I think Sierra Charts does it the best. rainman2(great guy ) made it available to all.

Posted by Mushroom on 11-05-11 01:56 PM:

Quote from stepan7:

@ 10:40 Bar is peaking red volume and FTT on lower fractal channel not drawn on my chart.

Yeah I know, I just misunderstood one thing, and that lead to a couple of other mistakes. I'm glad I posted the chart.

Posted by stepan7 on 11-05-11 02:15 PM:

Quote from Mushroom:

I'm glad I posted the chart.

This is the best way people learn.

St.

Posted by baro-san on 11-05-11 06:15 PM:

Quote from Mushroom:

I was expecting that pattern, but I was so caught up with this idea that you draw a new channel from an ftt that I was thinking about the b2b as a "flaw" in a retrace.
I guess it's as simple as this: if you have a higher low in a downtrend you draw a new channel, and opposite for uptrend. Right? The idea that I had to look for a ftt to get a new point 1 made me neglect the b2b.

It seems that the essence is something like this: carefully drawing and correlating trend lines in the price and the volume panes highlight the market pulse, the pattern. We have to be careful not to invent rules. They constrain us into seeing what's not there, and making errors.

Posted by TIKITRADER on 11-05-11 08:47 PM:

Jack,

I posted another chart on 11 -2.
If you have time to review it that would be appreciated very much.

Thanks.

Posted by Vienna on 11-05-11 09:27 PM:

Quote from stepan7:

Look on Jack's "clean_page_4" upside down. New P3 is Higher/Lower P1.

You have clear P3 @ 11:25.

Slightly different here...do not have the premarket but have the carryover from the degapped chart...

hth

Vienna

__________________
Vienna

Posted by jack hershey on 11-05-11 09:34 PM:

Quote from Mushroom:

Really interesting picture. I didn't understand the meaning of degaping, now I get it. Can you do that with all charting software?

the better platforms carry it now.

And most platforms can handle the snippets that have been coded up for them.

The combo of having a fully operational platform is a real advantage.

now they can include:

1. de gapping

2. boxing internals

3. boxing laterals

4. boxing the Outside bar which is a two point generator of faster fractal parallelograms.

A system that allows you to annotate swiftly and thoroughly.

Not many platforms include what is known as a "global Variable". "global variable means a mechanism for pulling stuff off a platform into a coding platform, doing operations on the remote coding platform and then feeding the results back into the original platform for display. You actually still have to take the "ingredients offered" and put them on a display that you then use for making money.

I am set up with 90 degree rotated screens which have their own platforms for each screen. Then separately I have a trading computer where all the POA's I am trading are bundled. This screen also contains the DOM and T&S with several imperfections. My mice are different kinds and are wireless. A have under the counter (the counter is a space for writing and such) sliding drawers designed to hold keyboards. I have four keyboards. They are offset in height a little so they alternate in height and slide over/under each other to lend move firmness.

The white oak cabinetry was done in Ohio from totally clear quarter cut white oak. Mennonite cabinet makers worked on the system so that it could be transported and assembel with blind screws and extensions. The slots for screens (five) Rotate through 90 degrees and they are offset above the counter and inset so that I simply swivel to steer and focus to carve the turns.

There are many many people who do not believe what I post. Others feel I exagerate stuff. Some people are satisfied with deciding I am crazy. But there are also a community of people who have actually experienced watching or being partners in what I do.

The industry is always behind the times, technologically.

By the time a person does get excellent at what he does, it is beyond the imagination of most. I do not find that to be unusual.

I have seen people who think they are hotshots and heavy rollers not take advice when they were in trouble. They stayed in trouble and felt they could actually compete with me. They got in the hole for 40 mil by the time I arrived. I placed my finger on a screen and said you will be B/E by here, today. That point was reached by the market and was tradable to get them even but they didn't get it done.

I stay under the radar as best I can. There is no one who can reverse engineeer me. I am one of those people who was heavily criticized unfairly by a person who then blew up. He was just another person who came and went.

Over fifty three years I have seen change. BUT the principles of market operation are just the same as they have ever been.

From where I sit, I can read any post and understand where that person is in the infinte scheme of things. What I see most is poeple getting the consequences of their decision making which leads to their incorrect belief systems. Watch "Margin Call" and see earnest Ivy leagers and LSE guys just doing what is done in the financial industry eon after eon. What I do is take money out of their pools as the pool offers everyone the money. The financial industry is just musical chairs for the players. Those huge pools form through persuasion and sales.

Automated trading is going to be put on the block by ignorant powerful people. Pool extraction is here to stay, however. No one gets it so far.

I think it is fair for ET to have me, as an unbelivable personage, for those who are incapable.

Posted by Mushroom on 11-05-11 09:50 PM:

Quote from Vienna:

Slightly different here...do not have the premarket but have the carryover from the degapped chart...

hth

Vienna

When you degap the chart, do you still annotate yesterdays HLC and levels like that first, or do you not use them?

Posted by jack hershey on 11-05-11 10:27 PM:

Quote from Mushroom:

Thanks Stepan, although I recognised the b2b real time, I didn't think about how it effected the drawing of the channels.

My coloring is wrong because pricebars are "standard", volume is "Jack style". Probably not a good combination.

Jack, I didn't draw the channels subjectively on purpose, I drew them the way I interpret the rules, but I'm gonna check them out more carefully.
But wouldn't you agree that there is a subjective element (skills) when you choose which channels that are most important? For me it gets to messy if I draw every single channel. See attached (probably missed some). For a trained eye it's maybe not a problem but if I draw too many it's difficult for me to distinguish which one's shows the dominant trends. When I looked at a video presentation by one of your "students" who were trading on course level he only drew the main channels and traverses.

Thank you for thinking through what I suggested.

The final on the mark punch line is that the method of annotating is NOT descretionary.

By looking at 405 bars from bar one and using the 10 cases and annotating adjacent bars, you get to build interlocking fractals. And you eliminate any variation from the one thing the market is telling you at any specific time.

You will do the messy wok ovr and over and gradually your mind will begin to speak to you.

What the differentiated mind can do and does do is prevent any mistakes from being made.

There are stages of mental growth. there is NOT a stage called meanial work. Nor is there a stage called "I am a pro at inventing shortcuts.".

For various reasons when I would have trading guests, I generally queried them on my narration of the market. The specific question was: "how far ahead should I do narration so that you can see what is going on as it arrives?" Offsets varied, but they did narrow as other's skills improved.

In learning, the person does drills to "get it".

By doing drills a foundation arrives.

A routine is spread across all drills. The routine is always the same so OODA can be avoided. It gets prediction and betting OFF THE TABLE. Some people here cannot see the difference between betting and not betting. That is because the bar is set so low.

At some point a stage is reached where the mind adds the subjunctive to the mix. Also around this stage, the mind, formally does raise questions for one purpose. It is the Swiss cheese holes in the mind that the mind is addressing.

Our heritage gives us our Swiss cheeseiness. So the mind is specifically tailored to help you. Often our forums asked questions s a way to get the Swiss cheese of participants to wake up and plug holes with less and less descretion and invention.

If you want to prove to yourself that you are really ripping along. just reread something that is stored in your three ring binders for a while. It will read entirely differently to your improving mind.

Reread your journalling to see how much the emphasis begins to become more and more focussed on what you are doing as a growing person.

A later stage is called iterative refinement. You can see Tiki putting me through my iterative refinement do share with him his iterative refinement.

So as you begin to see the bars in between the bars you are using, you will get to bear down on the foundation getting itself in place. As you add in a resonable platform that is fully equipped on the 10 cases, you get to better see dominanceand non dominance.

When you read the speil on three pairs versus two triads, you get to see how the word consistency is part of a trader's foundation. Now you can take the time to recognize how a flake cannot see what I am talking about. Some day he may even figure out I have written more books than he will aver write.

Look carefully how dealing in triads on each fractal level produces a totally interlocking system of fractals.

Mush, if I may, There is room for improvement at a very fast pace. You have many many pieces. Now the job is to put the pieces together.

Go you understand why they imprisoned the guy (made him sit in an expensive chair next to Demi for 176K plus an hour during RTH.) who slipped the flash drive to the junior analyst. The jr analyst came to the elevator. The fired guy knew the recipient had the curiousity to use the flash drive contents to do a swiss cheese job pronto. All that early evening he plugged into the holes. The boss was able to stop hearing any music (meaning an event was about to happen) Go see "margin call" twice, so you can understand how PEP and its applications frontruns the turkeys in "margin call". Since the SEC couldn't understand I was not a criminal, you can see how what you are learning is really terrific. The SEC became convinced (by my broker's lawyers) I was still a criminal BUT I couldn't know as many and diverse a crowd as required to do all those "insider" trades and no other kind of trades.

The last stages of this are really neat. You get to unconscious competence.

how does this work? It turns out your mind is very accomplished when it gets differentiated. Trading is like skiing black diamonds with automated skiis. You just take the ride and you carve the turns and get back up into the air to avoid friction. You become the rocket scientist who learns how to straighten his tie in one short overnite.

You are in flight now. Do every bar since you have 300 seconds per bar anyway. Don't get bored as the ignorant do.

Posted by Mushroom on 11-05-11 11:25 PM:

From Mr Black in the thread on traderslaboratory I got the impression that you can schematically describe the volume pattern of every cycle like this (se chart). Is this correct, or did I misunderstand?

Posted by Vienna on 11-06-11 12:00 AM:

Quote from Mushroom:

When you degap the chart, do you still annotate yesterdays HLC and levels like that first, or do you not use them?

My platform (Sierra) automatically creates a seamless chart by shifting the past day so that the close matches today's open. So I scramble in the first 5 Minutes to move the carryover lines. For that reason, I leave only the most important lines on the chart the evening before.

I do project slow RTL's and LTL's, sometimes from weeks back, and major Swing highs and lows. Have seen the market complete a sequence right there and bounce back too often...

hth,

Vienna

__________________
Vienna

Posted by Mushroom on 11-06-11 12:09 AM:

Quote from Vienna:

My platform (Sierra) automatically creates a seamless chart by shifting the past day so that the close matches today's open. So I scramble in the first 5 Minutes to move the carryover lines. For that reason, I leave only the most important lines on the chart the evening before.

I do project slow RTL's and LTL's, sometimes from weeks back, and major Swing highs and lows. Have seen the market complete a sequence right there and bounce back too often...

hth,

Vienna

I understand, but when you draw major horisontal support/resistence levels, do draw both the levels on the degaped chart and the actual price levels from a traditional gapped chart?

Posted by Vienna on 11-06-11 12:41 AM:

Quote from Mushroom:

I understand, but when you draw major horisontal support/resistence levels, do draw both the levels on the degaped chart and the actual price levels from a traditional gapped chart?

No.
Only the ones I see on my degapped chart.

__________________
Vienna

Posted by jprad on 11-06-11 01:55 AM:

Quote from jack hershey:

There is no one who can reverse engineeer me.

Your "work" is every bit as possible as this M.C. Escher poster:

__________________
-jack-

Posted by DB_sezwhat on 11-06-11 12:48 PM:

Quote from DB_sezwhat:

I'm not sure, but I think Sierra Charts does it the best. rainman2(great guy ) made it available to all.

Although Jack doesn't teach this in his PEP methods, I absolutely think this chart is very complimentary to his "Volume leads price " mantra...

The chart is a de-gapped cumulative delta volume 5 minute chart for the 405 bars of last week. Take the time to draw channels on both the price chart and the cum delta chart and match up FTT's on different fractals. I also overlayed the volume bars so that gaussians could be matched up. Hopefully, someone will get an "AHA moment" from it.

Posted by Mushroom on 11-06-11 03:21 PM:

Another attempt to draw the volume cycles.

Posted by TIKITRADER on 11-06-11 06:01 PM:

Pattern taken from Nov 2 chart previously posted. with a little more drilling down into the chart

Posted by jack hershey on 11-06-11 11:26 PM:

Quote from Mushroom:

Another attempt to draw the volume cycles.

A brief comment.

A trader's goal is to be able to work effectively in real time.

you will see the market and simultaneously your mind will fill in the thought so you have perception. Perception is 90% inference from your mind and 10% what you sense.

On the 405 bar charts you are going to do when the weekend begins, need to be done bar by bar by covering up future bars and focussing on adjacent bars.

One measure of this is if and when you can slide the cover as fast as the market operates and also have a complete set of MADA loops transpiring.

Start with bar 1 and bar 2. Make a list of each activity in each of the four letters. M A D A This is your routine.

On the other hand, your posted chart looks like you are picking off the easy stuff and remaining in a quandary on the parts that did not have the routine applied to them.

I could do all the bars and run a narrative on my processing.

When we did boot camp sometimes it seemed like the month of boot camp was going to go more than a couple of years.

This is your situation. You cannot build your mind into a fully differentiated mind, if you do not begin to work purposefully.

A very effective way to do things is be messy and make a lot of mistakes.

Moving to where you have done five 405 bar charts and a comprehensive log for each, what is the new situation?

The market opens. You scramble to get the carryover incorporated using your final summary of what the day will begin with that was written the day before at your leisure.

You are in the market on bar 1 (early) and making money. You know you will make enough points to add a contract soon (how many depends on your entry number of contracts). I'll use 30 as an example. Your gour goal is 50 this week.

The first point you make allows you to add one contract.

By bar 2 you have the rtl and ltl drawn and you see the volume, as usual @ extraordinary. By this time you have the urge to trade point to point on the fractal you began trading FTT to FTT. Instead of 4 to 7 trades a day you are looking at 15 plus.

Since this is the case use some old 1, 2, 3, and ftt and clone or duplicate them on your chart and place them about where they are going to go.

Add in some ltl's and rtl's so you have one for each color and throw on some LTL's and RTL's so you also have one for each color as well. Do the same for two levels of volume. Always use the same respective line weights and keep them short in length.

To apply each as events pass, always drag the left side to the appointed place. Then fool with the right end.

Here is the question. What in the world lets you do all these things in a routine manner as you log on sheets of preprinted logs.

What lets you do it is that you know what is going on now and what will happen in the near future.

Look at an RN chart and see he is just always in reaction. Since everthing he might use in the near future is missing on his neatly done mistaken charts.

Be Prepared is a child's rule for getting through the day at a time you are not old enough to drink.

Each row on a log is the same in all columns but one column. That column has a change in it. You can read the rows as the day goes on and fill in the rows ahead of time.

If you did the 5 cycles on a log five or ten times, then you would find it easy to fill in a log.

When you trade 10 contracts you have a longer time before you add a contract than when you have 30 contracts operating for you.

Consider a pm BO. Twice last week the price changed 13 points oover two five minute bars. The 600 seconds were interesting. 13 points on 30 contracts allows the addition of more than one contract. And you have to lock on to the end of bar segments and shove them to a point on a chart. The acceleration going on during those two bars required you to get set up for the ftt that was going to pop up. You need to move some P's and T's on the volume chart as well.

If you are showing an MACD you are glancing for an end of the divergence which is underway. (What? says Lucrum ... lol) We really keep ahead with the leading indicator signals on the lagiing two lines. You all know what the next two sequene items are don't you. Good.

When you see the turn, you have added 13 contracts and have to reverse through 86 contract buys (the move I spoke of was down).

You are now holding long and 20,000 bucks or so richer and in the market.

The story is just this. You have to do weekend efforts so you can trade during the week. There are 405 bars during the week so you have to do 4050 bars on the weekend. (Or half that much) Print about 50 log pages to get started.

Say you are in the Marine Corps. You are learning, in boot camp, how to remain alive. So you wear out your weapon doing this.

Posted by ammo on 11-06-11 11:45 PM:

hersh,have you applied this to daily ,weekly charts

Posted by Vienna on 11-07-11 06:42 PM:

Question to Jack

Hello Jack,

am drilling on the weekends, right now I am just blocking out price portions of the chart from Volume alone...working fast, trying to locate every FTT, BO, PT 2 , 3 and VE from the volume pane . Right now I can do this reasonably accurate in 10-12 Minutes per chart, blocking out level 2,3 and sometimes 1. I want to get to the point where I just glance at the volume pane and immediately "see" what price did all day... so the monitoring is keeping improving with practice, I can now see things right away that were invisible to me months ago.

Question re beginner Level of trading (and I am sorry if you probably answered this numerous times over decades):
Right now, I am trying to catch the FTT's and then hold as long as indicated (ideally to the next FTT).
Regarding the FTT itself:
1. Is it recommended to trade EOB at the beginning? Enter at the open of the bar after the FTT?
2. When do you wash? If you enter EOB and exit when the Bookmark is taken out, you get some losses (not washes). I find the reversing thing hard to do with EOB entries, and find I get whipsawed. What do you recommend if entering End of Bar?

Thanks as always!

Vienna

__________________
Vienna

Posted by Mushroom on 11-07-11 09:35 PM:

Could only follow the end of the session. Tried to annotate more details. As usual, the market is more difficult for me to read in the afternoon.

To me the 15.50 bar looked like a reversal forming. There was r2r2b with decr-incr-decr, lower high, FTT, inside bar, and then the 15.55 bar broke out to the downside - before it quickly reversed and screwed everybody that were short. If you try to trade ftt:s and can't nail them to the tick it looked like a good place to enter short, but obviously wasn't. Comments welcome.

Posted by jack hershey on 11-07-11 10:23 PM:

Quote from ammo:

hersh,have you applied this to daily ,weekly charts

I started out very slowly and just tore off the last page of the WSJ.

I used wingtip nuts on screws which held a quarter's worth of pages between lathe like trim wood (1/4 x 2 's).

To annotate, first I filled in an 11x17 sheet which had 6 months of daily grids for price and volume. 17 dollar range on price in 8th's.

As years went by I added charts and glued the sheets together.

One bedroom of a four bedroom house in Greenwich Rockridge neighborhood was devoted to this effort. I had an architect's drawing board to work on and storage racks for older quarters.

This was all daily beginning in the late 50's.

My first sports Mercedes was in '60 which I picked up in Kopenhagen. I was into sailing by '62 and bought a King's Cruiser (US 122) at that time on a two year loan 100% secured by stocks I was trading in street name.

This was position trading based on daily charts. I did 10% in 6 to 8 days where 10% was half a normal long cycle move.

Later I got into SSR trading where the hold was about 4 1/2 weeks. I still used daily plotted bars but a week was like a day in PVT trading. I rolled surplus money into SSR from PVT.

read the bio on W, J O'Niel as a similar example. OR read a parallel story entitled How I Made 1 Million dollars by a professional dancer. He was box trading in the late 50's and early 60's.

The fact is that in those days about everyone who used TA was getting rich fast. BUT there was universal criticism of us by the traditional types.

I stated with 300 bucks in '57 and by '60 I ws doing MB sports cars and by 62 was cruising all summer in LI sound and Block Island sound.

By '66 I was living in suburbs of Zurich, SW. Before Greenwich, I summered in Europe every year.

Nothing has changed in trading except information is abundant and we now have PC's.

I lucked out by getting profitable doing hand drawn charts at a time when few paid that kind of attention to making money.

Making money has one huge factor. You compound profits and then just take out big chunks or use your portfolio to collateralize anything you want.

The weapon of choice is your differentiated mind.

by beginning with a binary vector orientation, I simply used the 10 cases for a foundation and never considered any betting orientation ever.

When you do NOT bet and you know you know, in terms of CW, you are operating in an unbelievable place.

Futures were only "insurance" instruments a while back. So it was possible to reapply the same paradigm to growiing pools and just take out all the market offered.

No one who makes a lot of money, keeps it. Why bother? The other thing is that you do not have to spend anytime to make a lot of money.

A full time trader is a person who can't trade very well so he just works at it all day long doing stupid betting.

Today, most ET members are doing betting. They do not make money and they can't follow what it is like to build the mind.

Nicely, I become unbelieveable to this set of people.

The pattern is gibberish to them, even though I give it to them.

I tracked the inventions in the marketplace from 1790 to 1957 when I stated. It is three pages long. My applications turn out to be one pagers, each.

I was laughing the other day when I read a whiner response to the "crayola zig zag test". People are actually mentally blocked from doing a test to find out the market's daily offer.

Trading the observable on the 5 min turns out to be 20 to 40 trades a day. I will post on my next post how to judge on a chart when to do each trade to achieve each trading goal.

Posted by jack hershey on 11-07-11 11:27 PM:

Trades are important to get straight and to have the ease possible to carve them and take the offer.

Regardless of the fractal you use, it is important to take advantage of each turn.

I use 10 to 12 leading indicators of the ES 5 minute chart. Most are discoveries or inventions.

To go from a potential beginning trader to expert takes a month or so of purposeful work. BUT it does not turn out that way for each and every potential trader.

There are some good illustrations of how my eyes move as the day unfolds. I do MADA over and over as a habit in this silo (PEP).

I easily recognize adjacent bars and the case they are forming. My data feeds go to different platforms and each platform's detailed smaller displays are put in the correct place. On another screen my trading is like a gasoline pump arrangement. You can't read the dollars less than the thousands since they are moving so fast. 2 to 4 5-min bars is a segment of profits.

On the 5 min ES on one screen I am set up to M and A of MADA. On another screen, I just can't annotate since it stinks for that. The lines get stuck very easily in the wrong places.

I turn 18 inch screens 90 degrees and tell them I did it. Tall narrow screens. I keep white space or some color empty of data on the right side.

My annotation or indicator paths are the only things there on the right. I live in the near futture and the Present has already been put to bed for me.

MAC did the market PACE vs Vo and Ov charts for the Vo and Ov distributions. They are two dimensional gaussian distributions running both vertically and horizontally. The spine of the max's goes from lower left to upper right.

Having an orientation for forming bars, tells you how to carve when the carving event has arrived. We bookmark as well to optimize dealing with the last extra profits on a given frractal.

There is no betting. Instead you keep zooming in to see when the carving is happeneing.

For FTT to FTT, you do fewr trades and have longer holds. Divide 81 by a number between 4 and 7. You have a hold of 10 to 20 bars. It colud be under 10 if the PACE is there. And if midday it could be sluggish.

Let's zoom.

You annotated 1, 2 and 3 as numbers. The FTT to FTT vontainer is built and you went through two volume troughs: one at BO of RTL and one @ point 3. You see volume is increasing.

So zoom back over to the YM and see if the current observable trending is past the 3 and on the way to an ftt on that fractal. This probably two fractals faster than the FTT to FTT fractal. You can scan back on YM and count about 8 segments from the last FTT where you reversed. you can see that the color and vector directions are the SAME.

Glance over at the DOM and see the WALL ahead. This sets the value of the trade profit segment. Look at the OTR chart and check out the dominance of the pairs and see how the residence time on a given pair is in sync with the color of the end of the FTT to FTT you are trading. You are looking for the residence time to get a little shorter and the balance of residence to shift as the OTR reaches its extreme pair.

So when that happens hit T.

Right now mostly everyone is not seeing the market. You are still going through the process of setting up your computers to take the first look in your life at a market in operation.

First, you have to begin to build your mind. And it is important to see the 5 min ES in operation. You also have the 2 min YM which leads the ES.

As you see, this is too much to deal with. The message from you to you is that learning to carve turns comes later and, for now, you only do trades as you can best see them.

One thing is for sure, trades do not happen at ends of bars. When a bar near an FTT place gets as long as it is going to get is when you hit T. So put in the FTT on your screen where it will happen as soon as you have the parallelogram drawn using points 1, 2 and 3. Notice that at that time on YM there are a lot of parts still to come. But do put a big FTT out there to the right on YM which approximates where the trade on ES will be happening.

At this point, then, the whole world slows down and you discover that events are fairly far apart and there is enough time to do everything.

If you have S/S rolling, you can see the smart money. This means it is easier for you to front run the smart money. Some smart money does not know it is going to get left at the alter. Make the mental connection between the WALL on DOM and the velocity and acceleration of the S/S chart's envelope. The envelope also has a shape you can google to take a look at.

The car driving works on trading. You can watch the market just the same as you do things to drive a car. It is the same as the multi-picture image a fielder get as he finishes oiling his mitt after the batter hits the ball. Next he puts the lid on the spout of the oil can. He then puts a finger up to check the low altitude wind direction (remember the screw up at Bikini Atoll). He then adjusts his cap to deal with the stadium lights and begins to come out of his tortise shell to amble past all the blades of grass he is checking out for slippery slugs.

He will take into account the Budweizer photog's position to makes sure he gets the override on "this fielding is for you" ad campaign he will appear in.

Oh, he remembers he has to throw to home plate to win the world's series as a walk off. He adjusts his jock strap once more; the bulge counts before the throw.

The point is, all of trading turns into slow motion carving. All the snippets you need are in the 270 page thread of platform snippets.

We are broaching the questions coming from the mind to get more and more Swiss cheese holes taken care of.

Can you see the bar forming its extreme and after that the close slipping closer to the middle of the bar? Yes, it is now beginning to show up.

We have the correct bar don't we??? The rain in Spain is mostly on the plain. I think we've got it. The rain in Spain is mostly on the plain. Who cares? The Hershey hinge gives you another chance.

Forget spending 10,000 hours on this getting to expert. Just Do It.

Be Do Have.

Posted by Wide Tailz on 11-07-11 11:36 PM:

Quote from jack hershey:

A trader's goal is to be able to work effectively in real time.

I'm just in this game to make piles and piles of money.

Posted by Wide Tailz on 11-07-11 11:38 PM:

Pattern taken from Nov 2 chart previously posted. with a little more drilling down into the chart

Wow. Before I discovered system trading, I used to analyze charts for hours, solving for elliot wave counts. It worked most of the time. And it wasn't half as complicated as what you posted.

Posted by jack hershey on 11-07-11 11:42 PM:

Quote from Wide Tailz:

I'm just in this game to make piles and piles of money.

The money piles up automatically. Making money at a high velocity is a consequence.

"Eventing" the market is what makes the piles.

Compounding profits maybe something you will find out about.

Posted by TIKITRADER on 11-07-11 11:55 PM:

Quote from Wide Tailz:

Wow. Before I discovered system trading, I used to analyze charts for hours, solving for elliot wave counts. It worked most of the time. And it wasn't half as complicated as what you posted.

It gets better ...

I had annotated and posted this previously ( 02-21-10 10:57 AM ) , original post here below.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Registered: Nov 2006
Posts: 2466

02-21-10 10:57 AM

Re-posting . . . ( originally PV Relation-TraderLab)

chart art - Composizione, 1921 Serigrap by Piet Mondrian

TradeNavigator platform - chart art superimposed.

Attachment: composizione.jpg

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Or maybe you like this one better. also posted about 2 years ago

Posted by Wide Tailz on 11-08-11 12:26 AM:

Quote from jack hershey:

Compounding profits maybe something you will find out about.

It's there in the back test but I don't know if I have a real system or a 13 year curve fit.

I've had that "partnership with the market" experience, briefly, with elliot wave analysis. But it leaves you hanging at times (during corrective waves i.e. the past 6 months).

Here's the secret: take the first higher low after a trendline breakout. It will be either wave 3 or C, and they can be monsters.

Posted by Wide Tailz on 11-08-11 12:28 AM:

It gets better ...

Or maybe you like this one better. also posted about 2 years ago

Lol

I'd be interested to see the principle behind that. Like a one-sentence description of the essence of the Hershey method.

Posted by Lucrum on 11-08-11 12:32 AM:

Holy Jeezus!

I won't say anymore, as the hershey disciples will jump me for sure.

Posted by GordonTheGekko on 11-08-11 12:36 AM:

Jack, you talking about Greenwich, London, or southwest CT?

Posted by TIKITRADER on 11-08-11 01:01 AM:

Quote from Wide Tailz:

Lol

I'd be interested to see the principle behind that. Like a one-sentence description of the essence of the Hershey method.

x2x 2y 2x

Posted by Vienna on 11-08-11 01:48 AM:

Quote from jack hershey:

To go from a potential beginning trader to expert takes a month or so of purposeful work. ....

...........

We have the correct bar don't we??? The rain in Spain is mostly on the plain. I think we've got it. The rain in Spain is mostly on the plain. Who cares? The Hershey hinge gives you another chance.

Forget spending 10,000 hours on this getting to expert. Just Do It.

Be Do Have.

Thank you Jack for the view into a Formula One cockpit...am still chugging along in an old VW here.
So you laid out the view from the cockpit of a 700 HP car looking down the straight at Monza at 300 MPH, with a turn coming up... love it. It gives me a scope of where I am and where I want to get to.

-Could you perhaps elaborate a bit on specifics of the "purposeful work" required? Just put the displays on the screen and start watching them until they become second nature?
I finally understood what "the work" is for annotation skills (dry runs. drills), and, while making errors, am getting pretty fluent in this aspect...
-I know "tooling' questions are probably beneath the scope of this discussion, but, please- I want to clarify this once and for all: I think you recommend TN as a platform. I tried them but found the annotation tools terrible. Do you disagree on this? If so, I will give them another shot.
For T&S and Dom, I saw you like MB Trader pro...will get that.

Thanks a lot!

Vienna

__________________
Vienna

Posted by TIKITRADER on 11-08-11 03:58 AM:

Quote from Lucrum:

Holy Jeezus!

I won't say anymore, as the hershey disciples will jump me for sure.

Lol.... It's chart art . Frame n' hang it up .

Posted by bmwhendrix on 11-08-11 04:17 AM:

Really, at some point this just becomes sad.

Posted by baro-san on 11-08-11 06:31 AM:

Quote from Mushroom:

Could only follow the end of the session. Tried to annotate more details. As usual, the market is more difficult for me to read in the afternoon.

To me the 15.50 bar looked like a reversal forming. There was r2r2b with decr-incr-decr, lower high, FTT, inside bar, and then the 15.55 bar broke out to the downside - before it quickly reversed and screwed everybody that were short. If you try to trade ftt:s and can't nail them to the tick it looked like a good place to enter short, but obviously wasn't. Comments welcome.

Posted by ammo on 11-08-11 09:18 AM:

Quote from Wide Tailz:

Lol

I'd be interested to see the principle behind that. Like a one-sentence description of the essence of the Hershey method.

jack can't do a sentence because he believes he can't,but this site is about tradin,he aint a journalist either,try to read tween the lines,in one sentence....,cut thru all the crap and just read the tape,goin up get/stay long.if thats done get/stay short til thats done

Posted by Vienna on 11-08-11 04:52 PM:

Quote from bmwhendrix:

Really, at some point this just becomes sad.

I disagree...actually, I think it is a very happy experience to figure this out :-)

You see the blue lines up there? What if you knew before the market open that that was a likely place for the market to turn? Came pretty close, after that long run, wouldn't you say? So all you do is wait for the FTT and act.

The only sad things I can see are:
1. that I am not holding long enough (should still be short from the entry 67.75 (the red line at the top), that would be a 15 point trade so far- but that will come with experience. I knew the lateral pushing out the RTL meant continuation, but knowing it and holding are 2 different things still.
Just kidding, it's not really sad. Any profit is good.

2. I find some of the detractors kind of sad. You wonder what kind of life someone has who posts the same junk for years and years.

regards,

Vienna

__________________
Vienna

Posted by jack hershey on 11-08-11 09:47 PM:

Quote from GordonTheGekko:

Jack, you talking about Greenwich, London, or southwest CT?

The one across from bell 32A (north of) on long Island sound.

I lived in the Rockridge neighborhood.

Off rte 1 go down the street (north) between the Esso station (probably Exxon nowadays) and the library; at the circle just go into the neighborhood.

Posted by jack hershey on 11-08-11 10:20 PM:

Quote from ammo:

jack can't do a sentence because he believes he can't,but this site is about tradin,he aint a journalist either,try to read tween the lines,in one sentence....,cut thru all the crap and just read the tape,goin up get/stay long.if thats done get/stay short til thats done

The approach is a system based upon a two part "in kind" orthogonal hypothesis set, where the leading observable volume indicators are binary vectors whereby "increasing" volume is paired with "continuing"trend trade and "decreasing" volume is paired with "change" trend.

This proves I can't do a sentence and thats fine by me.

I like the idea of a paradigm where no probability nor betting nor prediction is involved.

The parametric measures are gerunds and they fit so nicely into interlocking nested fractals whose containers are parallelograms.

As everyone knows I began trading before arcane did. This very rock solid aspect of market theory has been such a consistent foundation upon which to build.

There is a lot of ingenuity involved in producing the exacting systemmic tools to implement such an elegant paradigm composed of two "if....then" hypotheses with gerunds as parametric measures.

It fun to see great personages challenge me to state a sentence. My third grade teacher did the same.

Now I'm doing two more books and I shelved the manuscripts for five others that would have been a finanacial trading suite (Ill use them inhouse, it turns out).

It is so cool to have a 2 million copy press run scheduled. I will use lots of sentences. My Dragon is roaring them out double spaced.

As of last Sunday on 60 minutes, it looks like I'm competing with an advertizing exec with no military service. I couldn't believe the turkeys on the program were so off base in helping GI's in need. How could 60 min staff be sucked in so easily.

As one would expect, everything devolves around the mind and doing what is required to either build it of restore it.

The mind has supreme potential. Firing it up and using it is one of the most fun things in the world. So many people can stand right next to opportunity and decide to turn away and go goof off.

Why does a person need one sentence? I know he thinks is shows the skilll of the sentence writer to convey the "complete and definitive thought."

Now lets look at the needy person. He has his sentence and it consumate and timeless. (it has to be timeless since the market is events based).

When you eat a consume there are no lumps. No lumps in the sentence either.

How does a person in need get his real needs out there? He doesn't. He just mopes along with a dead sentence he will bury somewhere.

That sentence has served me for 53 years.

Looking for the fountain of youth got royalty's attention.

A subject and its predication can turn on a endless supply of capital. I guess that is so cool because it takes a big thing off the table for problem solving. When you have money, you can solve problems by getting bright people to do the job.

But the question of one sentence is not too bright.

Posted by masterm1ne on 11-08-11 10:23 PM:

Successful troll is successful....

The mod's should just delete this in order to control it, so if they allow it, the skys the limit...?

Posted by ammo on 11-08-11 10:46 PM:

Quote from jack hershey:

The approach is a system based upon a two part "in kind" orthogonal hypothesis set, where the leading observable volume indicators are binary vectors whereby "increasing" volume is paired with "continuing"trend trade and "decreasing" volume is paired with "change" trend.

well said..........http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/orthogonal

Posted by Wide Tailz on 11-09-11 12:03 AM:

Quote from jack hershey:

But the question of one sentence is not too bright.

"Clear writing is a sign of clear thinking"

-Seykota

Posted by Vienna on 11-09-11 01:05 AM:

Quote from jack hershey:

The one across from bell 32A (north of) on long Island sound.

I lived in the Rockridge neighborhood.

Off rte 1 go down the street (north) between the Esso station (probably Exxon nowadays) and the library; at the circle just go into the neighborhood.

:-)

I know exactly where that is...somewhere between Lake Avenue and Zaccheus Mead...go right at the circle and you reach the hospital in a few blocks

__________________
Vienna

Posted by SK0 on 11-09-11 01:54 AM:

Quote from jack hershey:
....

Compounding profits maybe something you will find out about.

What do you suggest for someone trading BBT or point to point to compound profits? In the past, you suggested to add one contract every 30 points of profits. However, the market sometimes could behave in the space where we do not have sufficient knowledge and skills to handle. One or two mistakes could wash out most of the hardwork and pressure is compounding too. Thank you.

Posted by Lucrum on 11-09-11 03:21 AM:

Quote from jack hershey:

11-07-11 06:48 PM

Should I put up the code for 10 leading indicators of price?

Posted by Wide Tailz on 11-10-11 03:06 AM:

One Sentence Summary of the Hershey Method:

"The market offers a series of profit segments defined by a trapezoid constrained by the first and second support, and first resistance, of a trend channel of compound size, the breakout of which can be anticipated with volume inflections"

But I still can't figure out what CW means.

Here's Wide TailZ's one sentence summary of his trend following method:

"The market gyrates continually and some of the energy can be harnessed with a moving average, breakout filters, and a reversal entry / exit"

Posted by R. Raskolnikov on 11-10-11 03:28 AM:

Conventional Wisdom?

Quote from Wide Tailz:

One Sentence Summary of the Hershey Method:

"The market offers a series of profit segments defined by a trapezoid constrained by the first and second support, and first resistance, of a trend channel of compound size, the breakout of which can be anticipated with volume inflections"

But I still can't figure out what CW means.

Here's Wide TailZ's one sentence summary of his trend following method:

"The market gyrates continually and some of the energy can be harnessed with a moving average, breakout filters, and a reversal entry / exit"

Posted by stasbz on 11-10-11 08:59 AM:

my greetings!
you have said

Also you have four games played where hands are shown. They are often done by a few people who work together to play the same game. An observer gets used to these players and front runs them with unseen orders.

Could you tel what four games are played?
do you mean head fakes, spoofing and etc?

Posted by jack hershey on 11-10-11 06:47 PM:

Quote from Vienna:

:-)

I know exactly where that is...somewhere between Lake Avenue and Zaccheus Mead...go right at the circle and you reach the hospital in a few blocks

lol ... very true.

My son was born there in '64.

I was driving one of two MB's then One was a black 190SL and the other a '51 170S with a short block 18O in it. Both were convertables. The '51 looked prewar.

The sailing on the sound was most fun.

Posted by Lucrum on 11-10-11 08:11 PM:

Quote from jack hershey:

11-07-11 06:48 PM

Should I put up the code for 10 leading indicators of price?

Posted by jack hershey on 11-10-11 09:16 PM:

Quote from Wide Tailz:

One Sentence Summary of the Hershey Method:

"The market offers a series of profit segments defined by a trapezoid constrained by the first and second support, and first resistance, of a trend channel of compound size, the breakout of which can be anticipated with volume inflections"

But I still can't figure out what CW means.

Here's Wide TailZ's one sentence summary of his trend following method:

"The market gyrates continually and some of the energy can be harnessed with a moving average, breakout filters, and a reversal entry / exit"

There are many successful approaches.

From what I read of your posts, you could be failing to grasp any one or most of them.

This is very common.

Your "personalizing" of what you believe I said is a tradegy for you.

Elsewhere, Intradaybill does the same with respect to another approach.

Intraday bill attaches "induction" to a genre of approaches. Induction certainly cannot make any approach workable, ever. Intradaybill believes scientists use induction to prove things.

For you, you are deploying degrees of freedom determined by a vertical examination of whatever. This is another form of induction based non science.

Would it be possible for a portion of potential traders to actually reason through the basis of a market's operation? It is a rare opportunity for anyone to go through.

Since you are passing it up and focusing on a translation containing fewer words, you will continue to get the consequences.

It is the same for how Covel missed the boat when he interviewed many many people and didn't ask the correct questions. They all played him and he went away happy.

At one time, interest grew with respect to dancer who traded as an anateur. First off he was interviewed nd then asked by another financial organization to write a book. He did "box" trading and used Western Union to communicate to and from his broker.

No one in the financial industry got his message then or now.

At that time making a milliion dollars trading stocks was not part of the financial industry.

SKO has asked me to explain how to keep making all the market's offer and not have any mental turmoil while doing so. So I shall.

I do believe Ammo looked up "orthogonal" and maybe he "coonected"; Wide talesz didn't "connect".

Three people. One wants to vut down turmoil, another may see something in "orthogonallity" of hypothesis which are "like Kind", and lastly, a person has a principled system pass in one eye and out the other. Intradaybill remains in the dark.

Trends have two non opposite but orthogonal conditions. Anyone's heritage and training does take him down the opposite trail. Could it be possible for such a person to not think in opposites for making money?

The answer is a resounding NO!!!! for most of the world. Wide talesz is sticking with NO I cannot. Ammo looked up (see it is UP to look) orthogonal to deal with the trend states continue and change. Covel does not know this as yet.

Atrend contines and then comes to a period of "overlap" and then springs forth as a new independent trend. Trades make the most money if done as I will explain to SKO using cases. CW uses TA to do BO's of RTL's and their failures to BO. Both are lagging types of trades.

The beginning of overlap is when to maximize trading. Here is when continue ends and change begins. Change ends when the BO of the RTL occurs.

Volume tells you when the left and right side of markets is occurring. Wide Talesz is stuck (by his beliefs he decided to put and keep in his mind) with up/down and cannot adjust to another mental construct called left/right.

If you look at a box it has ends. Ends are formed by events. What are the other two sides used for? Wide talesz uses them for guessing support and resistance.

For the mind it is tough for a person to coordinate his timing with price. I suggest this as what is oging on because, in posts, I hear a lot about timing. Some funny posts come from Lucrim. He actually thinks (or just posted) that he wants to see the "equations" for leading indicators of price.

A parallelogram is a trapezoid as has been switched to. Do the parallelograms have tops and bottoms? Yes. They have names: RTL and LTL. respectively. BO's are always on RTL's regarding late profit taking on trends.

The Depression we are in is not going to have a BO on the RTL for 10 to 12 years. But what about the LTL of the last move of this Depression?

As it steepens, the LTL will be breached four times and each breach has a name: VE. VE means the volatility of the trend move increases (Expands).

If a person can draw containers and can recognize there are four parts, then he can use this to make the optimum take for each profit segment.

Thus we have eliminated guessing tops and bottoms and they are replaced by FTT's and faster ftt's and fastest ftt's. All involve left/right brain power.

Directions of trends are always from right to left. This is called the dominant direction. trends all have three moves as determined by deduction.

Can anyone go through this deductive process. NO!!! Read all the posts in ET. Most are telling. People who post mostly confirm they are using induction and the associated inductive non reasoning to do trading and formulate the equations (See Lucrim) of their non reasoned playing the markets.

Go back to the garden of EDEN where the first trend occurred. It was on the fourth day that God invented point 1.

This market move was the first move and it was good. So God called it dominant since that was the way he was lining up the troops for his campaign.

Later, point 2 occurred. Points were good. To get to point 3 it was required to retrace and this is called a non-dominant move.

With three points there, an acorn lying in the poop sprouted and said "Gee I'm a tree" Geometry was then put to use to contain price.

Deducing that three points can form something required a lot of deduction. A triangle could come to mind and perhaps it is not possible for anyone the think out of the triangle.

to be fair, it probably doesn't work out that an uneven number of supports and resistancecould be assigned if a neutral bias is maintained.

But lets face it Adam and EVE did not have girls.

To deduce that a parallelogram is most reasonable is a tough undertaking. But I assume that the constant volatility is a good choice unless told otherwise.

Bookmarks were invented by religious monks much later but that is another story.

Look at deducing that a dominant move and a non dominant move can set the scene for a slower trend that could come to fruitition (garden of EDEN talk later shortened to fruition).

Imagine the non dom ending at point 3 and an RTL could be put in place. Then think of dominance returning since non dominance is not there anymore.

What kind of a guy or gal is God? He or She is not an ad nauseum type.

So we get to deduce that this slower trend made of three sub trends so far, COULD be considering wrapping it _____.

That is why the FTT was invented. A dominant going from point 3 will or will not get to the LTL. this is a binary situation and is dictated by the fact that the market demands a binary math only. No equations are allowed. there is not even continuous functions in the space. Why? The tickedness of the markets. Cain and Able did wickedness. (one was dis-abled) Trends do tickedness.

A dominant trend move goes from point 3 and only gets so far; price fails to traverse to the LTL. We are in the middle of a perallelogram.

We take the profit segment from point 1 to FTT.

We reason that if the FTT happens, then it is the baginning of a new trend. So we call it point 1. And use clean page 4 to assureourselves that point 2 MUST be outside the trend that just ended.

Since this is deducable, then it is also true their is only one pattern in markets. And so it is cast in stone our paper of choice.

Most people can't understand this type of foundational reasoning.

Certainly, we have to include the 10 cases and plan for VE's. So we do and it all ends happily ever after. See one pagers.

Moral: left/right and hold/reverse replaces up/down and entry/exit.

Posted by jack hershey on 11-10-11 09:52 PM:

Quote from SK0:

What do you suggest for someone trading BBT or point to point to compound profits? In the past, you suggested to add one contract every 30 points of profits. However, the market sometimes could behave in the space where we do not have sufficient knowledge and skills to handle. One or two mistakes could wash out most of the hardwork and pressure is compounding too. Thank you.

You have everything you need.

Now, you "put the pieces together".

Adding a contract every 30 points can be reasoned through.

It goes 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. Only once in life do you have to double your money to add a contract. Then it gets easier.

You say: "However, the market sometimes could behave in the space where we do not have sufficient knowledge and skills to handle."

If this is true for you, sideline until it is no longer true.

Also, consider doing a log so what you say never happens.

All bars form the same way and then they become one of the 10 cases.

On TN we havea container for the forming bar. To make is possible (simple) for TN programmers we campaigned tirelessly under they used a yellow box. Later we tricked them into a blue box by a cut and paste effort that worked. You will notice almost no other platform has complied with our demands. Cool, we have an edge.

So we have a space for behavior as you pointed out; it is yellow.

And you have annotated according to the pattern to have three observable interlocking nested fractals.

The companion to all of this is your differentiated mind where inference exists. this set of inference matches one-on-one with the elements of the set that you see.

What you see is a very small set. So I may mention all of the elements in the set in this brief post.

At 300 seconds on your chart a new bar begins. It is a tick tall and in a yellow box as tall as the prior bar. The yellow box is in the three nested parallelograms.

could it be any spookier or mystifying? No, Never.

But I will amplify.

In the smallest fractal container which you prjected into the future, the yellow box will stay inside or not. If not, fan. If, hold.

Well for some of the cases the yellow box disappears. It does this the right way or the wrong way.

Write in your journal how each case does it the right way or the wrong way. Then scan the page and post it here.

Soon you will have an ftt on the fastest fractal. Then you draw another fastest trend segment using two adjacent bars.

If you are still inside, and the yellow box goes all the way to 0 seconds, then squish and annotate.

Do the same for blue boxes (laterals).

As you do the annotating of MADA, make sure you add small brief notes to read that tell you where you are in each nested fractal's series of movements. Also for VE's remember what you wrote in your journal to accelerate that given VE no matter what level you are on.

Gradually, you can work up to multiple accounts all at the capacity of the market. Also you can trade point to point on faster fractals.

So now let us look at the ftt bar. It can be an ftt or FTT on any other fractal that is slower. Two thrid moves one inside the other and on a thrid move of the FTT fractal. This is a majic time because you are going to reverse and bookmark the FTT.

What Happens? you pull out your MAC PACE charts to know what to expect in the size of things. Go across the PACE row and find the peak of the gaussian for a given forming bar. Drop over to the DOM and write the value of the WALL in your log.

during the bar when the values get hit for the three things, reverse and write down the data and look at the new level of realized profits. Notice some new unrealized profits begin to accrue.

After the first 1,000 times of doing these difficult things, you will have "put the pieces together".

Notice for each five minute bar in your log there are up to six rows.

Notice at the end of the day your log is 10 to 12 pages long and all of your accounts have traded according to the preformance of the market on that multiple of the ATR. (3 to 6 times).

Posted by jack hershey on 11-10-11 09:59 PM:

I edited the above.

Quote from jack hershey:

You have everything you need.

Now, you "put the pieces together".

Adding a contract every 30 points can be reasoned through.

It goes 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. Only once in life do you have to double your money to add a contract. Then it gets easier.

You say: "However, the market sometimes could behave in the space where we do not have sufficient knowledge and skills to handle."

If this is true for you, sideline until it is no longer true.

Also, consider doing a log so what you say never happens.

All bars form the same way and then they become one of the 10 cases.

On TN we have a container for the forming bar. To make it possible (simple) for TN programmers we campaigned tirelessly until they used a yellow box. Later we tricked them into a blue box by a cut and paste effort that worked for laterals. You will notice almost no other platform has complied with our demands. Cool, we have an edge.

getting the boxes on a chart is a deep indication of our devotion to the 10 cases and they simplicity.

So we have a space for forming bar behavior as you pointed out; it is yellow.

And you have annotated according to the pattern to have three observable interlocking nested fractals, all parallelograms.

The companion to all of this is your differentiated mind where inference exists. This set of inference matches one-on-one with the elements of the set that you see.

What you see is a very small set. So I may mention all of the elements in the set in this brief post.

At 300 seconds on your chart a new bar begins. It is a tick tall and in a yellow box as tall as the prior bar. The yellow box is in the three nested parallelograms.

Could it be any spookier or mystifying? No, Never.

But I will amplify.

In the smallest fractal container which you projected into the future, the yellow box will stay inside or not. If not, fan. If, hold.

Well for some of the cases the yellow box disappears. It does this the right way or the wrong way.

Write in your journal how each case does it the right way or the wrong way. Then scan the page and post it here.

Soon you will have an ftt on the fastest fractal. Then you draw another fastest trend segment using two adjacent bars.

If you are still inside, and the yellow box goes all the way to 0 seconds, then squish it mentally and annotate.

Do the same for blue boxes (laterals).

As you do the annotating of MADA, make sure you add small brief notes (to read) that tell you where you are in each nested fractal's series of movements. Also for VE's, remember what you wrote in your journal to accelerate that given VE no matter what level you are on.

Gradually, you can work up to multiple accounts all at the capacity of the market. Also you can trade point to point on faster fractals.

So now let us look at the ftt bar. It can be an ftt or FTT on any other fractal that is slower. Two third moves one inside the other and on a third move of the FTT fractal. This is a magic time because you are going to reverse and bookmark the FTT.

What Happens? You pull out your MAX (who posted them for you) PACE charts to know what to expect in the size of things. Go across the PACE row and find the peak of the gaussian for a given forming bar. Drop over to the DOM and write the value of the WALL in your log.

During the bar when the values get hit for the three things, reverse and write down the data and look at the new level of realized profits. Notice some new unrealized profits begin to accrue also.

After the first 1,000 times of doing these difficult things, you will have "put the pieces together".

Notice for each five minute bar in your log there are up to six rows.

Notice at the end of the day your log is 10 to 12 pages long and all of your accounts have traded according to the preformance of the market on that multiple of the ATR. (3 to 6 times).

Posted by Wide Tailz on 11-10-11 10:41 PM:

Quote from jack hershey:

There are many successful approaches.

Moral: left/right and hold/reverse replaces up/down and entry/exit.

Up / down is the only breakout filter I could figure out how to code up.

Volatility with respect to the trend line you construct with point 1 and 3 is my tell that a trend is accelerating or coming to an end.

And yes it's a fractal, and yes I mean orthogonal........

Posted by ammo on 11-10-11 11:07 PM:

so ltl and rtl are left and right or upper lower trendlines,ftt is failing to to bounce back up or down to the upper/lower tl in the present channel,at this point,you start a new channel,this is what i am deducing from your post, the ve,volatility expansion,i'm miffed,is that the same as a direction change,and are you saying we will make it thru this fed printing for another 10-12 years before any serious market damage,if you are you've answered my question about you using this on weekly ,monthly.yearly charts

Posted by DB_sezwhat on 11-10-11 11:39 PM:

Quote from DB_sezwhat:

I'm not sure, but I think Sierra Charts does it the best. rainman2(great guy ) made it available to all.

Since my last few charts have been so well received , I thought I would continue the series. Jack has said many times to pay attention to all market orders greater than 50, so here is a de-gapped chart with a cumulative delta volume filter of trades > 50. So easy, even a p/a trader can do it.

Posted by maxpi on 11-10-11 11:42 PM:

Quote from ammo:

so ltl and rtl are left and right or upper lower trendlines,ftt is failing to to bounce back up or down to the upper/lower tl in the present channel,at this point,you start a new channel,this is what i am deducing from your post, the ve,volatility expansion,i'm miffed,is that the same as a direction change,and are you saying we will make it thru this fed printing for another 10-12 years before any serious market damage,if you are you've answered my question about you using this on weekly ,monthly.yearly charts

That is about as much as I ever figured out from Hershey's stuff. In studying the FTT I discovered that oftimes it fails, probably Hersheyites are able to interpret it further by the context of the next larger fractal or maybe they just take their losses and go their merry ways. That will not work for them on a day that continually signals reversal but doesn't reverse, that killed a lot of traders in the 1987 meltdown, they averaged down until they had nothing left...

I found ways to rule out the failing FTT's before they occur via the context that don't involve channels on the larger fractals. I trade the entry/ bracket-exit methods though, not in-all-the-time and that largely because I'm devoting my efforts to automated trading..

Posted by GordonTheGekko on 11-11-11 12:21 AM:

Jack, why the IRS investigation.

Posted by stasbz on 11-11-11 05:33 PM:

could you tell me where can i find "chapter 4 of Harris"

4. He is reading the "reaction to his play that is "out of the market". See chapter 4 of Harris..

Posted by TIKITRADER on 11-11-11 05:41 PM:

Quote from stasbz:

could you tell me where can i find "chapter 4 of Harris"

Is this what you are looking for ?

Posted by Lucrum on 11-11-11 07:43 PM:

Quote from jack hershey:

11-07-11 06:48 PM

Should I put up the code for 10 leading indicators of price?

I'd settle for three.

Posted by TIKITRADER on 11-11-11 09:41 PM:

Quote from Lucrum:

I'd settle for three.

Lol.... You are determined... At this point anything will suffice . Keep trying

Posted by jack hershey on 11-11-11 09:50 PM:

Quote from DB_sezwhat:

Since my last few charts have been so well received , I thought I would continue the series. Jack has said many times to pay attention to all market orders greater than 50, so here is a de-gapped chart with a cumulative delta volume filter of trades > 50. So easy, even a p/a trader can do it.

So cool.

Probably one of the best demonstrations of smart money leading the herd.

This certainly illustrates how elegant it is to use a tool to be able to carve price by taking partial fills of the herd's chicken feed positions.

Posted by DB_sezwhat on 11-11-11 11:22 PM:

Quote from jack hershey:

So cool.

Probably one of the best demonstrations of smart money leading the herd.

This certainly illustrates how elegant it is to use a tool to be able to carve price by taking partial fills of the herd's chicken feed positions.

Here's a comparison of chicken scratch herd traders(<=50 cars) versus Hershey traders for the same time period of the previous chart.

Posted by Vienna on 11-12-11 12:03 AM:

Quote from jack hershey:

lol ... very true.

My son was born there in '64.

My second son too, in '91! The hospital is all fancy now, associated with Yale etc.
You walk in and there is a white mechanical piano playing in the lobby...looks like a Hilton (such are the effects of a large taxbase)...

__________________
Vienna

Posted by Vienna on 11-12-11 12:04 AM:

Quote from DB_sezwhat:

Here's a comparison of chicken scratch herd traders(<=50 cars) versus Hershey traders for the same time period of the previous chart.

very cool indeed...

__________________
Vienna

Posted by bmwhendrix on 11-12-11 12:53 AM:

cumdeltavol is interesting and for most would seem to have a logical basis, but I keep hearing an old mentor of mine saying

"Beware the well chosen chart"

Don't take this negatively, I look forward to more examples.

I post this as I have monitored this before and found no edge.

But I am pretty slow and dense and ugly as well I am told.

So, keep them coming.

Posted by Lucrum on 11-12-11 12:55 AM:

Quote from jack hershey:

11-07-11 06:48 PM

Should I put up the code for 10 leading indicators of price?

Since you obviously don't have 10, how about 1?

Posted by bmwhendrix on 11-12-11 01:10 AM:

I think cumdeltavol is being put forth as one.

However, why not add trendline breaks on TDV as two

and positive divergences on TDV as three

and trend confirmations on TDV as four.

All may be valid, but don't mean much in theory.

If realtime real net profitable trades using the above can be

provided it would make my mortgage holder very happy.

Posted by nkhoi on 11-12-11 02:27 AM:

Quote from Lucrum:

Posted by bmwhendrix on 11-12-11 02:45 AM:

eggs, scrambled eggs, egg salad, boiled eggs. sunny side up.

I can connect them all very logically, but they mean nothing to my bottom line.

Why? Because they are not relevant. There are a million
theories that make some sense but will not work.

I am sorry, but I am one of those guys that think you are full of it, unless you show me net real time \$.

There are a few folks here that would have been better off pursing a
career in fictional writing rather than becoming charlatans and liars.

Nothing is new here for decades. Just charlatans trying to reinvent things for their benefit.

Posted by DB_sezwhat on 11-12-11 03:55 AM:

Quote from bmwhendrix:

cumdeltavol is interesting and for most would seem to have a logical basis, but I keep hearing an old mentor of mine saying

"Beware the well chosen chart"

Don't take this negatively, I look forward to more examples.

I post this as I have monitored this before and found no edge.

But I am pretty slow and dense and ugly as well I am told.

So, keep them coming.

The EDGE of cumulative delta volume becomes real when you use it in conjunction with the Jack Hershey Method. If you don't know the basics of the method, then CDV becomes just another indicator on a chart.

The #1 rule of the Jack Hershey Method is that Volume leads Price - ALWAYS. How do you define that rule? Seriously, have you ever just thought about what that means? So many traders on this site have gone so far as to disregard volume completely because they couldn't understand how volume and price relate to one another.

I define it as "volume cycles complete before price cycles complete." By defining it that way, I believe volume lets me know that change is coming before price lets me know. By knowing beforehand that price is getting ready to reverse, I can then use a different tool set to carve the turn.

I annotated a chart that will hopefully help.

Posted by Buy1Sell2 on 11-12-11 04:12 AM:

Jack and his method(s) are to be ignored.

Posted by bmwhendrix on 11-12-11 04:13 AM:

I see that at around 15:40 there was a positive divergence indicating further upside movement, but price collapsed.

That is the problem with a well chosen chart.

Posted by bmwhendrix on 11-12-11 04:38 AM:

DB Please post some charts of your real time trades which might further enlighten us. Actually I do mean it. I am am always open to improvement.

Posted by SK0 on 11-12-11 09:19 AM:

Quote from jack hershey:

You have everything you need.

Now, you "put the pieces together".

Adding a contract every 30 points can be reasoned through.

It goes 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. Only once in life do you have to double your money to add a contract. Then it gets easier.

You say: "However, the market sometimes could behave in the space where we do not have sufficient knowledge and skills to handle."

If this is true for you, sideline until it is no longer true.

Also, consider doing a log so what you say never happens.

All bars form the same way and then they become one of the 10 cases.

On TN we have a container for the forming bar. To make it possible (simple) for TN programmers we campaigned tirelessly until they used a yellow box. Later we tricked them into a blue box by a cut and paste effort that worked for laterals. You will notice almost no other platform has complied with our demands. Cool, we have an edge.

getting the boxes on a chart is a deep indication of our devotion to the 10 cases and they simplicity.

So we have a space for forming bar behavior as you pointed out; it is yellow.

And you have annotated according to the pattern to have three observable interlocking nested fractals, all parallelograms.

The companion to all of this is your differentiated mind where inference exists. This set of inference matches one-on-one with the elements of the set that you see.

What you see is a very small set. So I may mention all of the elements in the set in this brief post.

At 300 seconds on your chart a new bar begins. It is a tick tall and in a yellow box as tall as the prior bar. The yellow box is in the three nested parallelograms.

Could it be any spookier or mystifying? No, Never.

But I will amplify.

In the smallest fractal container which you projected into the future, the yellow box will stay inside or not. If not, fan. If, hold.

Well for some of the cases the yellow box disappears. It does this the right way or the wrong way.

Write in your journal how each case does it the right way or the wrong way. Then scan the page and post it here.

Soon you will have an ftt on the fastest fractal. Then you draw another fastest trend segment using two adjacent bars.

If you are still inside, and the yellow box goes all the way to 0 seconds, then squish it mentally and annotate.

Do the same for blue boxes (laterals).

As you do the annotating of MADA, make sure you add small brief notes (to read) that tell you where you are in each nested fractal's series of movements. Also for VE's, remember what you wrote in your journal to accelerate that given VE no matter what level you are on.

Gradually, you can work up to multiple accounts all at the capacity of the market. Also you can trade point to point on faster fractals.

So now let us look at the ftt bar. It can be an ftt or FTT on any other fractal that is slower. Two third moves one inside the other and on a third move of the FTT fractal. This is a magic time because you are going to reverse and bookmark the FTT.

What Happens? You pull out your MAK (who posted them for you) PACE charts to know what to expect in the size of things. Go across the PACE row and find the peak of the gaussian for a given forming bar. Drop over to the DOM and write the value of the WALL in your log.

During the bar when the values get hit for the three things, reverse and write down the data and look at the new level of realized profits. Notice some new unrealized profits begin to accrue also.

After the first 1,000 times of doing these difficult things, you will have "put the pieces together".

Notice for each five minute bar in your log there are up to six rows.

Notice at the end of the day your log is 10 to 12 pages long and all of your accounts have traded according to the preformance of the market on that multiple of the ATR. (3 to 6 times).

I am not sure the above is what you wanted me to do. I have already drilled into bar mutation of cases with the use of leaning PRV tool as well as other fine tools. So at Sub level, I may not be very good at identification of ftt but staying on the right side isn't too much of an issue for me in general. I just need to reason through why I should compound profits.

Posted by BenzMercedesSL on 11-12-11 09:20 AM:

Rocket backtest

I backtested the rocket on K200 and ES.
The rocket criteria are:
1. Long when macd(5,13,6) histogram >= 0.4 and stoc(14,1,3) K > 80 and stoc(14,1,3) D > 80
2. Short when macd(5,13,6) histogram <= -0.4 and stoc(14,1,3) K <20 and stoc(14,1,3) D < 20
3. Close long when stoc(14,1,3) K < 80
4. Close short when stoc(14,1,3) K > 20

I applied MACD and Stoc to both degapped and non-degapped data. I found there were very few rockets in K200, compared to ES. The summary of the rocket bactesting is attached here.

I currently focus on handling market sync and volume.

Posted by BenzMercedesSL on 11-12-11 09:23 AM:

Re: Rocket backtest

Quote from BenzMercedesSL:

I backtested the rocket on K200 and ES.
The rocket criteria are:
1. Long when macd(5,13,6) histogram >= 0.4 and stoc(14,1,3) K > 80 and stoc(14,1,3) D > 80
2. Short when macd(5,13,6) histogram <= -0.4 and stoc(14,1,3) K <20 and stoc(14,1,3) D < 20
3. Close long when stoc(14,1,3) K < 80
4. Close short when stoc(14,1,3) K > 20

I applied MACD and Stoc to both degapped and non-degapped data. I found there were very few rockets in K200, compared to ES. The summary of the rocket bactesting is attached here.

I currently focus on handling market sync and volume.

ES rocket backtest result on non degapped data

Posted by BenzMercedesSL on 11-12-11 09:23 AM:

ES rocket backtest result on degapped data

Posted by BenzMercedesSL on 11-12-11 09:23 AM:

K200 rocket backtest result on non degapped data

Posted by BenzMercedesSL on 11-12-11 09:24 AM:

K200 rocket backtest result on degapped data

Posted by BenzMercedesSL on 11-12-11 09:25 AM:

This is a typical losing trade (blue rectangle).

Posted by SK0 on 11-12-11 09:45 AM:

Re: Rocket backtest

Quote from BenzMercedesSL:

I backtested the rocket on K200 and ES.
The rocket criteria are:
1. Long when macd(5,13,6) histogram >= 0.4 and stoc(14,1,3) K > 80 and stoc(14,1,3) D > 80
2. Short when macd(5,13,6) histogram <= -0.4 and stoc(14,1,3) K <20 and stoc(14,1,3) D < 20
3. Close long when stoc(14,1,3) K < 80
4. Close short when stoc(14,1,3) K > 20

I applied MACD and Stoc to both degapped and non-degapped data. I found there were very few rockets in K200, compared to ES. The summary of the rocket bactesting is attached here.

I currently focus on handling market sync and volume.

The attached is the Beginner Rocket document. You need to consider volume too. 10 to 12K WAS the fast pace. You could use MAK matrix 70% to adjust volume for comtemporary use. The short signal on your Stochastic (14 1 3) should be CROSSING below 20 level.

Posted by stasbz on 11-12-11 10:27 AM:

Jack, what do you mean by "camtasia"
"Also listen to the four games camtasia on the DOM"

Posted by PointOne on 11-12-11 12:28 PM:

Re: Re: Rocket backtest

Quote from SK0:

The attached is the Beginner Rocket document. You need to consider volume too. 10 to 12K WAS the fast pace. You could use MAK matrix 70% to adjust volume for comtemporary use. The short signal on your Stochastic (14 1 3) should be CROSSING below 20 level.

Yes, getting the stochastic xo right would help the backtest, I'm sure. Volume too.

For me, rockets are characterised by lateral or with-trend non-dom left to right moves. The "I couldn't get in" syndrome very likely means you are watching a rocket in progress. The indicator values alone are necessary but not sufficient. Your rocket indicator values might easily be evidence of a P3 the other way.

You want it to be one way. But it's the other way.

Posted by nkhoi on 11-12-11 12:40 PM:

Quote from stasbz:

Jack, what do you mean by "camtasia"
"Also listen to the four games camtasia on the DOM"

means somebody made a video of it.

Posted by DB_sezwhat on 11-12-11 04:00 PM:

Jack and his method(s) are to be ignored.

RSI and 180 points stops are to be ignored.

Where's Pekelo when you need him?

Posted by DB_sezwhat on 11-12-11 04:19 PM:

Re: Rocket backtest

Quote from BenzMercedesSL:

I backtested the rocket on K200 and ES.
The rocket criteria are:
1. Long when macd(5,13,6) histogram >= 0.4 and stoc(14,1,3) K > 80 and stoc(14,1,3) D > 80
2. Short when macd(5,13,6) histogram <= -0.4 and stoc(14,1,3) K <20 and stoc(14,1,3) D < 20
3. Close long when stoc(14,1,3) K < 80
4. Close short when stoc(14,1,3) K > 20

I applied MACD and Stoc to both degapped and non-degapped data. I found there were very few rockets in K200, compared to ES. The summary of the rocket bactesting is attached here.

I currently focus on handling market sync and volume.

Is the MACD and STOC calculating off of the degapped data or non-gapped data?

Posted by jack hershey on 11-12-11 06:20 PM:

Quote from ammo:

so ltl and rtl are left and right or upper lower trendlines

No, they are not. Try for just a moment to consider a different world than you are in. You have a LONG bias. Ease over to a NEUTRAL bias. In a lot of books the NEUTRAL bias is mentioned.

Now, you read my posts and you believe RTL is lower trend line. For a SHORT trend, the RTL is the upper trendline in your parlance.

By granting your mind the right to look at markts from a NEUTRAL bias, your brain has to deal with only half the elements that would otherwise be in the picture.

Meny definitions have twice the applications and half of what you may be trying to do now disappears.

Okay you spent the moment. You will go back to where you were. BUT in six months you may be able to accept having a neutral bias as one of your original ideas. Then you can become a beginner trader.

,ftt is failing to to bounce back up or down to the upper/lower tl in the present channel,

this rhought is a tough one to have to bear. In a parallelogram, points 1 and 3 establish the dominant slope. In a trend, price advances in the dominant direction. It is always one direction and one direction only. That direction is right to left.

Trends always are happening. We know this because they overlap. Once you know what is going on you always know the dominant side of the market.

Imagine, for a moment that you have (always) the skill to be knowledgeable about what the dominant side of the market is at all times.

Now, you cannot, but you could if you annotated and the lines went out into the future. Price would always be filling the boundaries YOU drew upon instructions from the market.

Your platform will not do that for you because you subscribe to a platform that is shoddy and incomplete. Most platform vendors are ignorant AND they do NOT listen to their customers.

This said, now, you can determine the end of each trend.

AFTER POINT 3, A TREND COMES TO AN END IF THE PRICE CANNOT GO FAR ENOUGH FROM RIGHT TO LEFT TO GET TO THE LTL.

this expressions says: "You have all the time in the world to make all the market offers by trading FTT to FTT. In detail you go through point 1, point 2 and point 3 holding and naking money. After point 3 you have to watch the trend come to its extreme price value just after the volume peaks and price Fails To Traverse the container width drawn well before the end of the trend and past the end of the trend.

What is it like to be a person looking at lines drawn to the right side of his screen where price moves along in between these lines, all after the lines are drawn. What is it like to look at 10 leading indicators of price and know the price that will not be exceeded (here exceeded means beyond the price in the dominant direction).

The RTL is behind the price and the LTL is in front of the price. Volume is rising. The PRV shadow of volume shows you 12 seconds into the bar what the ending volume will be and it tells you whether of not the peak is past. If not, then you sit for 5 minutes more and make more money. What if the PRV shadow is less that the prior bar's volume? Well then you know you are going to , somwhere in the next 300 seconds, see the maximum traverse the trend will make aftyer point 3 of the parallelogram.

Knowledge and skills combine to give you a one-on-one match of your sensing (10%) and inference (90% and from long term memory) to YIELD PERCEPTION.

as we know most trader about all of the time are betting because they have zero PERCEPTION. It is tough shit for all the people who can honestly read this and figure out they have wasted all their time screwing around instead of building their minds.

I cannot build your mind and so far it is NOT built.

Only a reasoned system results in a buuilt mind. Throwning random beliefs into a nind does NOT let it build itself. Look at reading and Arithmetic. They are built by a learning process that has a core of doing drills to make inference in the form of long term memory.

So I read what you post and see a messed up and disorganized mind and I know you never did any drills suggested by anyone.

To BE able to read a chart is done by annotating the chart first. You do annotating drills. Then you read the chart. If you annotate and if you read the chart (google: learning to read English; it is similar), then you can log the chart. Every bar deserves six rows in a log.

at this point,you start a new channel,

A trend ends on a fractal on the Failure To Traverse. All fractals are nested and about seven different fractals will cover the fastest trade to the slowest Economic or Econometric cycle. You do not start anything; the market is what dictates what is what. You obey at all times.

This is what i am deducing from your post, the ve,volatility expansion,i'm miffed,is that the same as a direction change,

No absolutely nd positively NOT.

Here is the bad news. The VE only steepens the trend and prolongs it. Think of it this way. I am telling the world about DOOMSDAY and you think I am saying things are turning around.

A Volatility Expansion is an imprtant happening on the LTL.

You may notice people, today, speak of the market's volatility. they do and they are still very ignorant people.

this post is a wake up call for you and for them.

When I say this leg (third and after point 3) of the Depression has four VE's coming up, what in CW I am saying is The Depression has four stages of getting WORSE COMMInG DOWN.

The sequence will last 10 to 12 years. I will be 88 to 90 when it is over.

BUT all the while, I have immunity to Depressions since I extract capital out of markets every day. I have a system that works for all markets given a minimum of activity. I have used it for 53 years.

and are you saying we will make it thru this fed printing for another 10-12 years before any serious market damage,

You haven't seen any damage as yet. It gets worse and worse over four more and more diofficult stages. Nations will begin to fail. we will have more and more terroism from those who have no rights where they live. Even in America those who have been screewed by the few will get angry and show everyone how lousy living from day to day is for them.

Force will begin to be used to control people who are having a hardtime and do not know how to do drills.

Learning by doing drills is the only way to be rich by using price change to make money.

your post says that you do not do drills. Do you have a tent and a sleeping bag? If so learn to cook over a sterno flame. Gas tanks blow up and kill campers.

if you are you've answered my question about you using this on weekly ,monthly.yearly charts

Yes. If you post a comment on my 01SEP09 pronoumcement, remember to put in piont 1, and 2 and their subfractals so you can actually perceive what I said. I said that on the way to point 3 the subfractal could no longer reach the LTL. Now, in 2011 we can see that was true. this Depression started in JUN/JUL of 06 and you can watch the camtasia's where I spoke that and but up the charts of past depressions from Van Tharpe's book.

Now is the time to come in from the c0ld and begin to learn. It is going to get a lot more volatile and that means alot more money velocity is ahead unless you get the Bohr or Lizard Syndomes.

Throw away all books written by Covel. The bullshit is over.

Posted by jack hershey on 11-12-11 06:26 PM:

Re: Re: Rocket backtest

Quote from DB_sezwhat:

Is the MACD and STOC calculating off of the degapped data or non-gapped data?

degapping is required.

Also use the third leading indicator Stoch (5, 2, 3) and the signal is @ 50%.

Indicators of two line charts are determined by the relationship of the two lines.

In MACD you will notice two opposite words. A set of six relations results. The six relations follow an order of events.

I posted an attachment for the benefit of a thread that had not learned about indicators and are following a set of CW myths instead. As usual, this interesting thread was closed. LOL...

Posted by jack hershey on 11-12-11 07:41 PM:

Quote from stasbz:

Jack, what do you mean by "camtasia"
"Also listen to the four games camtasia on the DOM"

camtasia is a trademarked name for a program that makes videos of your screen display.

Cam probably has something to do with the screen being looked at electronically.

The tasia part probalby is a way of explaining the breadth and dynamic that out does the competition.

So for years I prepped a series of twice a month presentations for anyone who wanted to come on a particular night of the week.

So people came to Tucson from around the country. A club in NC triangle rotated their members, for example. West coasters just came each time.

by makiing a powerpoint in advance and having a scanner connected to my computer, I could put up anything for discussion.

I prerecorded the market and played it in real time or faster.

We discussed the Depression and its beginning with the climax run in JUN/JUL 2006.

We always ran through the stocks from the Universe that were coming up for trades before the next meeting. The attendees rotated keeping the Universe.

Usually about 70 people showed. On alternate weeks they met in homes or truck stops, etc.... Sort of a movable feast. I would go to new trader's offices and help them set up and about 10 others would drop in. advanced people partnered with beginners.

before cantasia we used the video cameras on tripods at my acrbitectural studio. Then we made 10 1-hour deited down guides that a person could use to get going. I was on a twin DTM disk feeds at that time. Many many sets were copied. the camera could pick up the screens, we who talked, and the drawing board where we did pairs of offset charts in four colors to anticipate the turns using a regional and geometric sheet.

Om a FOMC day, we could do three 300 point segments where we nicknamed a 150 point move on the DJX.X "a Greenspan".

So I have a huge archive spanning about 50 some years.

A lot of that time I had 15 POA's to trade for others. And at one time I did four levels of seven sets of emails four times a day. Other people did the levels I just shipped the seven sets four times a day.

ET showed up at some point recently.

On one of the presentations, I dicussed the DOM and the games played there. Not too many books cover that subject.

I had staff transcribe the camtasias and I illustrated them with the powerpoint pics. A person maintained a distribution site for both the videos and the documents. Also there were warm up documents. Some are still mentioned in these times.

Posted by DB_sezwhat on 11-12-11 08:07 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Rocket backtest

Quote from jack hershey:

degapping is required.

Also use the third leading indicator Stoch (5, 2, 3) and the signal is @ 50%.

Indicators of two line charts are determined by the relationship of the two lines.

In MACD you will notice two opposite words. A set of six relations results. The six relations follow an order of events.

I posted an attachment for the benefit of a thread that had not learned about indicators and are following a set of CW myths instead. As usual, this interesting thread was closed. LOL...

Have at it.

Posted by jack hershey on 11-12-11 08:23 PM:

Quote from SK0:

I am not sure the above is what you wanted me to do. I have already drilled into bar mutation of cases with the use of leaning PRV tool as well as other fine tools. So at Sub level, I may not be very good at identification of ftt but staying on the right side isn't too much of an issue for me in general. I just need to reason through why I should compound profits.

The left charts are hold charts. you just keep making money.

The upper left is a sym and the next bar will advance you further in profits and lead to the end of the trend.

The two right side charts are showing why I asked people to do the mutations on the log. In each a trend has ended and profits were taken during the bar. the bar showing is one bar after the peak of volume which preceded making as much money as the market offered.

as a person discards making a rule set for trading, he turns to doing a routine and logging. The switch enables him to eek out the full offer of the market.

As a person takes the full offer he makes a given amount of money.

Some run 5 contracts and make 6,000 dollars a month for covering expenses.

Look at the same person and think about if she were trading 50 contracts and making 60,000 dollars a month.

What is the difference? there is no work or trading difference, there is just a life style difference.

She can either keep the life style and trade 1/10th as often (2 days a month instead of 20 days a month, for example.

In this thread was posted the different "bottoms" of a trend for traders doing >50 contracts as compared to traders doing chicken feed. The money leads chicken feed.

This is a leading indicator of price. As the last two days passed I have posted at least 5 leading indicators of price. Big traders trade ahead of chicken feed traders. Do that too. Compound up to 50 contracts.

Then go to five 50 contract accounts. This would put you income at 300,000 a month. What you can do then is be helpful.

As compared to the first example rate of dong trades; I do more trades by a factor of 5 since I trade on a faster fractal than she does. This changes the numbers. It could show up as 300,000 every four days.

If you compound you work the same and make more money. this is a good reason.

Posted by Jack Nestle on 11-12-11 08:56 PM:

All this could cleared up in one day if Jack would make live calls for just one day. Chance of that happening, zero.

Posted by baro-san on 11-12-11 09:42 PM:

Quote from Jack Nestle:

All this could cleared up in one day if Jack would make live calls for just one day. Chance of that happening, zero.

I disagree. If Hershey made (successful) live calls that would only prove his skills to those who believed he can't trade. It would bring a larger following, but it would also attract the attention of the kind of traders he despises. It would provide very little help only to his most advanced followers, and none to the others.

Probably many remember his beginning of the year prediction for 2008: he was very accurate, but that neither changed his detractors' minds, nor helped much his beginner followers.

Posted by maxpi on 11-12-11 09:50 PM:

Quote from Jack Nestle:

All this could cleared up in one day if Jack would make live calls for just one day. Chance of that happening, zero.

If it was all cleared up, then what?

Posted by Trader666 on 11-12-11 10:22 PM:

Your link is from late November 2008. Do you have a link to where it was supposedly posted in a more timely manner?

Jack's turning point of a lifetime prediction didn't work out very well:

Quote from baro-san:

Probably many remember his beginning of the year prediction for 2008: he was very accurate, but that neither changed his detractors' minds, nor helped much his beginner followers.

Posted by baro-san on 11-12-11 10:43 PM:

Your link is from late November 2008. Do you have a link to where it was supposedly posted in a more timely manner?

Jack's turning point of a lifetime prediction didn't work out very well:

Quote from cd23:

I annotated your chart and also noted the volume for 2008 as well.

I do not see your second leg as a possibility. I also feel the summer will be flat after two legs down (a small breather in between).

Absence of commercial paper being rolled and the annuals coming in with the appropriate mark to markets (or models in worst cases) will deepen the initial drop off out of the H&S.

The dominos started rolling about June 06. Superimpose housing sales, starts and inventory to see how the three graphs flow. Add in the credit card and employment conditions as the secondary industries shut down because they are no longer feeding housing. the financial sector which works on commissions has few sales alternatives for those no long working the turf.

The quant era also ended about the time the housing inventory started building. This is an "establishment" that took a quarter century to install and build. Dismantling it is going to be hazardous duty pay for a lot of brass. There will be no novelty in "securitization" for quite a while. On the otherhand all the hedgies are facing the same way and the investors do have to get paid out if and when they realize they are in a dead end situation. ceck out the top 100. It will be a continuing combo of write downs and sovereign capital coming in and taking over the reigns to manage the infusions. Congress screwed up on this one. They did oil correctly by defusing China and the port operations got caught in time but they blew it on sovereign capital.

Oh the fed debt. As the government runs out of takers (see recent auctions) turning over debt will lead to longer term debt packages and high frequency offerings.

By the time summer ends, it will be fairly clear that the election is up for grabs and no one will be taking office until after the end of the year. Uncertainty drives the markets down.

The last half of 2008 is where the present administration is going to pay a lot of dues. Iraq is going to be a lot more expensive to get out of and there is going to be a lot of increased continuing expenses for vets in many long term care requirements (including post trauma for unwounded, family therapy all over the place (See Ft Hood ramp up when it is announced) and care for all those involved in the evacuation).

Health care, education and SS are going to take a lot of heat as well. Ivy league endowments are going to have to play by the 501 (c) (3) rules starting sometime soon as well. Investing is going to be one tough cookie for them.

Posted by bmwhendrix on 11-12-11 10:52 PM:

I have been trying to find the posts that Jack says he was making that showed the progress in turning \$10,000 to \$100,000 with his Tuscon group.

I guess I do not know where to look!

http://www.mediafire.com/?1gi2qygm3yh

Posted by bmwhendrix on 11-12-11 11:05 PM:

I have also been unable to locate a copy of this book Jack wrote.

From 6/08 ET post by Jack

I know what it is like to write a book that sells 400,000 copies in four months. What do you think it would be like if my prints were seen around the world? i showed, under security, one third party (a broker) a day's trades in one stock (100,000 shares with a 17 point net), what do you think he did?

Posted by Trader666 on 11-12-11 11:15 PM:

baro-san, OK so he took someone else's prediction and tweaked it.

If he's such an oracle then why was his turning point of a lifetime prediction so far off?

Posted by Trader666 on 11-12-11 11:21 PM:

You got the link right... that's Jack in his own words from one of his Camtasias promising his former IBD group to turn \$10,000 into \$1 Million in 100 days and document it on ET.

Does anyone have a link to the final results of that?

Quote from bmwhendrix:

I have been trying to find the posts that Jack says he was making that showed the progress in turning \$10,000 to \$100,000 with his Tuscon group.

I guess I do not know where to look!

http://www.mediafire.com/?1gi2qygm3yh

Posted by jack hershey on 11-13-11 12:48 AM:

Quote from maxpi:

If it was all cleared up, then what?

Historically, when all of that came to pass publically, the cycle began again.

If you care to reason, what makes you think there would be a different result on this cycle? there will not be for those who are the airheads like the airheads were in the past.

Who gives a fuck what people so screwed up like Trader666 think? People who are like Trader666 is who.

Will moderators do anything about their erroneous reasoning? No it just will not ever happen. There is no way it can be expected that moderators delete unresonable posts.

These types of people help me make my points and they separate the posters into two groups. Detractors on ET are a tradition.

these types daily demonstrate that they have files full of their personal comments that they repeat over and over instead of doing any learning.

Posted by PointOne on 11-13-11 12:55 AM:

Re: Rocket backtest

Quote from BenzMercedesSL:

I backtested the rocket on K200 and ES.
The rocket criteria are:
1. Long when macd(5,13,6) histogram >= 0.4 and stoc(14,1,3) K > 80 and stoc(14,1,3) D > 80
2. Short when macd(5,13,6) histogram <= -0.4 and stoc(14,1,3) K <20 and stoc(14,1,3) D < 20
3. Close long when stoc(14,1,3) K < 80
4. Close short when stoc(14,1,3) K > 20

I applied MACD and Stoc to both degapped and non-degapped data. I found there were very few rockets in K200, compared to ES.

I waited a while to see if anyone else picked this up. Did you scale the MACD criteria with price? ES prices are around 5x larger than K200 which would make the 0.4 gating a bit of a stretch for K200.

Posted by SK0 on 11-13-11 01:27 AM:

baro-san, OK so he took someone else's prediction and tweaked it.

If he's such an oracle then why was his turning point of a lifetime prediction so far off?

As your fan, I am truly disappointed to hear from you that you do not know CD23 is another handle from Jack. Converging and diverging, see that?

Posted by baro-san on 11-13-11 03:33 AM:

baro-san, OK so he took someone else's prediction and tweaked it.

If he's such an oracle then why was his turning point of a lifetime prediction so far off?

I should know better than getting engaged by you, but here it is:

Life is short. Don't waste your time stupidly! Especially during these times when you're bombarded with information be reluctant to believe what you read or hear! Most of it doesn't pass even the lowest threshold of value. But, when you find a rare valuable source be smart enough to recognize it, and if you can, try to draw from it. When you get from such a source something you don't understand, don't firstly assume that the source is wrong, but that you're not able to get it, yet (hopefully). Think hard, and do your diligence to get it!

Hershey and his posts may or may not be such a source, but if nothing else, his prediction for 2008 (it's easy to recognize his style under the cd23 screen name) should urge you not to jump to conclusions when you disagree with him. Better start from the assumption that you don't get it, and work toward overcoming this.

09/01/09 may have been the moment when Hershey had the confirmation that that up move was the retrace of a larger down move and not a resumption of an up move. You may have thought that he was talking about a daily, weekly, or monthly prediction, when he was talking about a real Depression, much longer time frame, with much more dramatic consequences. As you could easily see when you extend the chart, in Hershey's parlance, price never reached the LTL of the move started in March 09. He explained you this several times, and you didn't get it: the reversed saucer. Not many were able to anticipate it at that date.

Don't waste your time stupidly going after Hershey, because you're wrong!

Posted by SK0 on 11-13-11 03:57 AM:

Quote from jack hershey:
If you compound you work the same and make more money. this is a good reason.

Thanks a lot.

Posted by xioxxio on 11-13-11 07:34 AM:

miramaximusplus you are obviously too stupid to understand the mythology.

Posted by stasbz on 11-13-11 09:33 AM:

you use that colors
[quote]We have the jerseys who play. red, orange, yellow and GREEN[quote]
is it colors of DOM, Green - inside bid/ask?

Posted by SK0 on 11-13-11 09:57 AM:

Brother miramaximusplus, so are you talking about me? Hey, I have no complaints. Thanks for your concern. Seriously, you have wasted enough of your time here. How many years? Do you think anyone appreciate what you have done here? I can tell you, no one. Also, nobody is responsible for your inability to become a millionaire. We are all adults and Jack is not making us to buy anything. If I were you, I will either seek another methodology that I find comfortable or come out one of my own. Peace.

Posted by BenzMercedesSL on 11-13-11 10:49 AM:

Re: Re: Rocket backtest

Quote from SK0:

The attached is the Beginner Rocket document. You need to consider volume too. 10 to 12K WAS the fast pace. You could use MAK matrix 70% to adjust volume for comtemporary use. The short signal on your Stochastic (14 1 3) should be CROSSING below 20 level.

Thanks, SK0.

Quote from PointOne:

I waited a while to see if anyone else picked this up. Did you scale the MACD criteria with price? ES prices are around 5x larger than K200 which would make the 0.4 gating a bit of a stretch for K200.

Thanks, PointOne.

Quote from jack hershey:

degapping is required.

Also use the third leading indicator Stoch (5, 2, 3) and the signal is @ 50%.

Indicators of two line charts are determined by the relationship of the two lines.

In MACD you will notice two opposite words. A set of six relations results. The six relations follow an order of events.

I posted an attachment for the benefit of a thread that had not learned about indicators and are following a set of CW myths instead. As usual, this interesting thread was closed. LOL...

Thanks, Jack.

I'll do the experiments again.

Posted by DB_sezwhat on 11-13-11 01:09 PM:

Quote from DB_sezwhat:

I'm not sure, but I think Sierra Charts does it the best. rainman2(great guy ) made it available to all.

Quote from DB_sezwhat:

By knowing beforehand that price is getting ready to reverse, I can then use a different tool set to carve the turn.

I annotated a chart that will hopefully help.

Now that it has been proven that Volume leads Price - ALWAYS, the question becomes 'how does one use that information to carve the price turn?'

DUH, ftt's of course !!! But what if you don't know that you have a ftt? Well, DUH, you're shit out of luck! or you can use another leading indicator - Market Depth

More specifically, order book delta (the difference between limit ask and limit bid offers) offers more precision. Here's a chart identifying the ftt using OBD.

Posted by Trader666 on 11-13-11 02:34 PM:

Sorry Jack, scream and obfuscate all you want but there's nothing unreasonable about pointing out the FACT that your predicted turning point of a lifetime was a really bad call.

Quote from jack hershey:

Who gives a fuck what people so screwed up like Trader666 think? People who are like Trader666 is who.

Will moderators do anything about their erroneous reasoning? No it just will not ever happen. There is no way it can be expected that moderators delete unresonable posts.

Posted by R. Raskolnikov on 11-13-11 02:50 PM:

This begs the question...if the turning point of a lifetime (short signal) turns out not to follow thru, shouldn't that signal the ultimate buy? Judging from the chart you posted, it seems his call was at a major inflection point. 9/1/09 has acted as the bottom for over 2 years now.

I'm not sure how long you have been trading, but your argument fails to notice that, even though his call was wrong, his entry point for a short was absolutely perfect (for taking a shot). Many of my "wrong" trades happen to be intra-day inflection points too so I can see where he is coming from.

Just try and think about it intuitively.

Sorry Jack, scream and obfuscate all you want but there's nothing unreasonable about pointing out the FACT that your predicted turning point of a lifetime was a really bad call.

Posted by bmwhendrix on 11-13-11 02:57 PM:

"Now that it has been proven that Volume leads Price - ALWAYS.."

I guess I was asleep when the proof was shown. All I have seen are a few well chosen charts.

Posted by jack hershey on 11-13-11 03:04 PM:

Quote from DB_sezwhat:

Now that it has been proven that Volume leads Price - ALWAYS, the question becomes 'how does one use that information to carve the price turn?'

DUH, ftt's of course !!! But what if you don't know that you have a ftt? Well, DUH, you're shit out of luck! or you can use another leading indicator - Market Depth

More specifically, order book delta (the difference between limit ask and limit bid offers) offers more precision. Here's a chart identifying the ftt using OBD.

Most use the PRV which is available 12 seconds into a 5-min bar. Here you find the Peaking of volume about 2 to 4 minutes ahead of the price extreme.

For the 300 second duration, you get to look for the time the bar stretches to it's maximum. MAX put up those values in a PACE vs Volatility chart. Also use the PACE vs Overlap.

As you say the DOM will have a WALL at this price value as well. But you have to undeerstand three other leading indicators here by assessing the games played by smart money on the DOM.

As you look at the S/S, you see 20 to 30 seconds before this price extreme, that the smart money has switched sentiment sides (Use the color coding and when the axis is crossed.). Prior to that you have two more leading indicators as measured by velocity and acceration of the envelope.

On the OTR chart you use the two pairs analysis and regard the shift in dominance at the extreme of the pairs.

For the three indicators you observe the fast Stoch going through 50% line and the cross overs on the slow Stoch of the 20 or 80 (which ever applies). The MACD will be doing a sequence of 3 cases according to C to Xover to D; then it will reach the designers absolute value for the impending trend. (For humor, you will remember T28 choosing the wrong signal a while back)

By using the YM as a leading indicator of ES, you have a series of leading signals on the next faster fractal. The sequence is 1, BO of RTL, 2, 3 and the ftt. Many minutes could be involved in this faster fractal sequence.

All together, if a person's mind is fully differentiated by using these degrees of information, the market trades are done with certainty that comes from the fact that a binary go/nogo system is used. The binary signals are also sweet in that they have a vector dimension as well.

No betting; no prediction, just "anticipation" that comes from an order of events well understood from building the mind using drills.

QED.

Posted by Trader666 on 11-13-11 03:06 PM:

You misunderstand... I'm not saying cd23 isn't Jack. I was saying he took someone else's (jreynolds212) prediction and tweaked it. Go back and look at your own link and the post immediately above it.

Maybe you should start from the assumption that YOU don't get it. Here are a few links to get you started:

Quote from baro-san:

...Hershey and his posts may or may not be such a source, but if nothing else, his prediction for 2008 (it's easy to recognize his style under the cd23 screen name) should urge you not to jump to conclusions when you disagree with him. Better start from the assumption that you don't get it, and work toward overcoming this.it: the reversed saucer. Not many were able to anticipate it at that date...

Posted by jack hershey on 11-13-11 03:08 PM:

Quote from bmwhendrix:

"Now that it has been proven that Volume leads Price - ALWAYS.."

I guess I was asleep when the proof was shown. All I have seen are a few well chosen charts.

LOL .....

Too bad you missed out on how deduction works.

You are almost as humorous as Tradr666 and his minions.

the way it works is that you do the proof yourself and you do it over and over until it sinks in.

you mistaken comments seem to be based upon induction.

Posted by nkhoi on 11-13-11 03:15 PM:

Quote from stasbz:

you use that colors
[quote]We have the jerseys who play. red, orange, yellow and GREEN[quote]
is it colors of DOM, Green - inside bid/ask?

dom has no color, those are colors of t&s, 2 of them, one with filer > 50 and one with filer < 50.

Posted by Trader666 on 11-13-11 03:41 PM:

Huh? Mar 09 was the major inflection point; Sep 2, 2009 was only one of many ordinary, inconspicuous points of continuation in the rally off of that bottom.

This begs the question...if the turning point of a lifetime (short signal) turns out not to follow thru, shouldn't that signal the ultimate buy? Judging from the chart you posted, it seems his call was at a major inflection point. 9/1/09 has acted as the bottom for over 2 years now.

I'm not sure how long you have been trading, but your argument fails to notice that, even though his call was wrong, his entry point for a short was absolutely perfect (for taking a shot). Many of my "wrong" trades happen to be intra-day inflection points too so I can see where he is coming from.

Just try and think about it intuitively.

Posted by Mushroom on 11-13-11 03:46 PM:

Quote from bmwhendrix:

"Now that it has been proven that Volume leads Price - ALWAYS.."

I guess I was asleep when the proof was shown. All I have seen are a few well chosen charts.

If you think about it, you don't need Spydertrader or Jack to understand this, it's nothing they came up with. How could a liquid market move without volume leading price? It's impossible.
How to trade of that knowledge is a different thing.

best regards,
Mushroom

Posted by stasbz on 11-13-11 06:39 PM:

Quote from nkhoi:

dom has no color, those are colors of t&s, 2 of them, one with filer > 50 and one with filer < 50.

DOM of stocks have different colors for different levels. you can change them.
i dont understand what colors for buy and sel for t&s filer > 50 ?

you use that colors
[quote]We have the jerseys who play. red, orange, yellow and GREEN[quote]
what colors for?

Posted by bmwhendrix on 11-13-11 07:05 PM:

Mushroom, consider this. Say a market had a constraint of only having one contract trade every minute and that trade was at the bid for 20 minutes then at the ask for 20 minutes. you would have price simply move up and down with flat volume. So that "proves" volume does not lead price ALWAYS.

Also price can continue to move up or down on increasing or decreasing volume.

Perhaps if you showed me a chart with actual entry and exit points real time using these methods I might better understand.

If you are a new trader, less than 5 years, you might remind yourself that there is nothing new in the way prices move except for the technology. It is all based on fear and greed just as it was 100 years ago. All that is new is the way guru's and charlatans re-package it for their benefit.

Now that benefit may be for money, attention, or maybe to generate hits on a website.

LOL Whatever you do, do not risk real money unless you are at least 3 month profitable sim.

Keep the entertainment coming. LOL

I do not really expect to see a chart, just as I never expect to see Jack answer the hard questions as the answers show that the emperor has no clothes!!! All you will get is redirection, BS, gobbly gook and personal insults. Look up the definition of Charlatan.

lOL Enough fun here. Off to the beach....

Posted by baggerlord on 11-13-11 07:24 PM:

Quote from jack hershey:

camtasia is a trademarked name for a program that makes videos of your screen display.

Cam probably has something to do with the screen being looked at electronically.

The tasia part probalby is a way of explaining the breadth and dynamic that out does the competition.

So for years I prepped a series of twice a month presentations for anyone who wanted to come on a particular night of the week.

So people came to Tucson from around the country. A club in NC triangle rotated their members, for example. West coasters just came each time.

by makiing a powerpoint in advance and having a scanner connected to my computer, I could put up anything for discussion.

I prerecorded the market and played it in real time or faster.

We discussed the Depression and its beginning with the climax run in JUN/JUL 2006.

We always ran through the stocks from the Universe that were coming up for trades before the next meeting. The attendees rotated keeping the Universe.

Usually about 70 people showed. On alternate weeks they met in homes or truck stops, etc.... Sort of a movable feast. I would go to new trader's offices and help them set up and about 10 others would drop in. advanced people partnered with beginners.

before cantasia we used the video cameras on tripods at my acrbitectural studio. Then we made 10 1-hour deited down guides that a person could use to get going. I was on a twin DTM disk feeds at that time. Many many sets were copied. the camera could pick up the screens, we who talked, and the drawing board where we did pairs of offset charts in four colors to anticipate the turns using a regional and geometric sheet.

Om a FOMC day, we could do three 300 point segments where we nicknamed a 150 point move on the DJX.X "a Greenspan".

So I have a huge archive spanning about 50 some years.

A lot of that time I had 15 POA's to trade for others. And at one time I did four levels of seven sets of emails four times a day. Other people did the levels I just shipped the seven sets four times a day.

ET showed up at some point recently.

On one of the presentations, I dicussed the DOM and the games played there. Not too many books cover that subject.

I had staff transcribe the camtasias and I illustrated them with the powerpoint pics. A person maintained a distribution site for both the videos and the documents. Also there were warm up documents. Some are still mentioned in these times.

So where are these videos and people? Oh wait, you are a liar. Never mind.

Posted by bmwhendrix on 11-13-11 07:52 PM:

A liar? Yathink?

Jacks profile from another site.

Occupation: amateur trader, author, architect, EOP service.
Location: Tucson , AZ
What I Trade: Stocks, DJ, ES

I trade applications of an agorithm I created:PVT, SCT and SSR. PVT trades stocks 100 cycles per year @ 10% per cycle. there is a 100,000 share cap per stream. SCT trades, intraday, 20 to 40 traversal rades all in all the always on the right side of the market. the net profit yield is 3x ATR daily on the 5 min ES index. SSR does sector rotation in stocks @ 4 % a week for 4 1/2 week holds.

Posted by Mushroom on 11-13-11 08:27 PM:

Quote from bmwhendrix:

Mushroom, consider this. Say a market had a constraint of only having one contract trade every minute and that trade was at the bid for 20 minutes then at the ask for 20 minutes. you would have price simply move up and down with flat volume. So that "proves" volume does not lead price ALWAYS.

Also price can continue to move up or down on increasing or decreasing volume.

Perhaps if you showed me a chart with actual entry and exit points real time using these methods I might better understand.

If you are a new trader, less than 5 years, you might remind yourself that there is nothing new in the way prices move except for the technology. It is all based on fear and greed just as it was 100 years ago. All that is new is the way guru's and charlatans re-package it for their benefit.

Now that benefit may be for money, attention, or maybe to generate hits on a website.

LOL Whatever you do, do not risk real money unless you are at least 3 month profitable sim.

Keep the entertainment coming. LOL

I do not really expect to see a chart, just as I never expect to see Jack answer the hard questions as the answers show that the emperor has no clothes!!! All you will get is redirection, BS, gobbly gook and personal insults. Look up the definition of Charlatan.

lOL Enough fun here. Off to the beach....

I said liquid market. You know too that it takes volume to go beyond the bid-ask spread. And your logic doesn't make sense. I can't explain it in english but just google Aristotelian logic.

I don't see how the core of what Jacks says could be controversial. It's just price, volume and trend channels. Basic TA, studying price action. The rest of it I don't focus on right now and maybe I never will.

Posted by bmwhendrix on 11-13-11 08:55 PM:

Mushroom, those "core" concepts are found much more clearly discussed and accompanied by real time real money trades on other threads on ET. The reason Jack gets so much flack is that he makes unsubstantiated claims, tries to mystify the simple, and complicates what a successful trader knows to be simple.

He has for years misguided new traders with claims of making 3X daily range, Never a losing trade, etc. This is wrong both morally and professionally in my opinion. I support those that call BS on him.

Keep your money in your pocket. Also, remember this is the wild west here on ET, and all kind of egomaniacs, nut jobs, liars, thieves, charlatans purvey their wares and maladies here to the never ending stream of lemmings seeking a quick \$.

If you need guidance to find some of those threads PM me and I will offer what I can and I promise not to use the word Gaussian!!

LOL

Posted by workwithus on 11-13-11 09:01 PM:

Quote from stasbz:

DOM of stocks have different colors for different levels. you can change them.
i dont understand what colors for buy and sel for t&s filer > 50 ?

you use that colors
[quote]We have the jerseys who play. red, orange, yellow and GREEN[quote]
what colors for?

Check out the attachment entitled "watch the games".Jack's next post on the same page.hth

Posted by bwolinsky on 11-13-11 09:16 PM:

Hmm, stupidity and no clear explanation. This is typical of Jack Hershey.

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by bwolinsky on 11-13-11 09:19 PM:

Quote from Mushroom:

I said liquid market. You know too that it takes volume to go beyond the bid-ask spread. And your logic doesn't make sense. I can't explain it in english but just google Aristotelian logic.

I don't see how the core of what Jacks says could be controversial. It's just price, volume and trend channels. Basic TA, studying price action. The rest of it I don't focus on right now and maybe I never will.

Well, actually it is only a MACD, Stoch, and smoothed SMA of a stoch, and that is it.

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by bmwhendrix on 11-13-11 09:30 PM:

Bwolinsky, If my memory serves me, was it you who backtested some of Jacks systems? If so, do you have the results available to post?

Posted by nkhoi on 11-13-11 09:42 PM:

Quote from bmwhendrix:

Bwolinsky, If my memory serves me, was it you who backtested some of Jacks systems? If so, do you have the results available to post?

let's make one thing clear, there is no back testing only forward testing is acceptable for this method.

Posted by bmwhendrix on 11-13-11 09:55 PM:

Does anyone have the results of forward testing r(real time trading) of Jacks methodology as he presents it from an earlier date that can be posted?

Posted by Mushroom on 11-13-11 10:00 PM:

Quote from bwolinsky:

Well, actually it is only a MACD, Stoch, and smoothed SMA of a stoch, and that is it.

I'm not interested in indicators at all, so haven't looked into that. But I'd be surprised if any combination of standard indicators works without a discretionary element.

Posted by nkhoi on 11-13-11 10:05 PM:

for those who want to see some recent live trades, running commentaries, live channel drawings, look up ivob posts, enjoy.

Posted by workwithus on 11-13-11 10:08 PM:

Quote from workwithus:

Check out the attachment entitled "watch the games".Jack's next post on the same page.hth

Here is the chart(by spyder) of 2-27-07 that jack is commenting on in "watching the games" document.http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/attac...&postid=1376104

Posted by TIKITRADER on 11-13-11 10:18 PM:

Short video I put together some years ago for one of
JH Method Meetings

Press Play

http://www.screencast.com/t/oWXzWBqLPW

Posted by maxpi on 11-13-11 10:18 PM:

Quote from jack hershey:

Historically, when all of that came to pass publically, the cycle began again.

If you care to reason, what makes you think there would be a different result on this cycle? there will not be for those who are the airheads like the airheads were in the past.

Who gives a fuck what people so screwed up like Trader666 think? People who are like Trader666 is who.

Will moderators do anything about their erroneous reasoning? No it just will not ever happen. There is no way it can be expected that moderators delete unresonable posts.

These types of people help me make my points and they separate the posters into two groups. Detractors on ET are a tradition.

these types daily demonstrate that they have files full of their personal comments that they repeat over and over instead of doing any learning.

I'm studying nutrition, healing, wellbeing through supplements, etc.. So many people can be told what they need to do to get well, to get stronger, to get healthier, to sleep better, to overcome disabilities and disease... but they just sit there and babble at me. They start talking about their doctors, or the person they heard about that died while using natural stuff...

I was married to one for decades, I tried to get her to equate water with overcoming thirst and heat exhaustion for all those decades and she drank soft drinks.. I haven't seen her in months now, why bother? She's getting chemo and dialysis and all that good shit that sugar eaters get and probably she still thinks that she was right all along...

Myers Briggs Type indexing was the biggest scientific advancement of the twentieth century, to me that was the best thing I learned.. It enabled me to understand who I am and who lots of other people are and why they have such glaring deficiencies when it comes to coping, doing due diligence.. and it makes it really clear why history repeats itself... and best of all it made me realize that life is a big cow pasture and I better watch where I step...

Posted by bmwhendrix on 11-13-11 10:33 PM:

Posted by TIKITRADER on 11-13-11 10:36 PM:

Quote from bmwhendrix:

Try this

http://www.screencast.com/t/oWXzWBqLPW

Posted by bmwhendrix on 11-13-11 10:59 PM:

I just get a blank screen, media player does not start. If others can view it, I guess I have a problem here.

Thanks,

Posted by TIKITRADER on 11-13-11 11:02 PM:

Quote from bmwhendrix:

I just get a blank screen, media player does not start. If others can view it, I guess I have a problem here.

Thanks,

Towards bottom left of page

Posted by Mushroom on 11-13-11 11:09 PM:

Try this

http://www.screencast.com/t/oWXzWBqLPW

Nice video, to me that voume sequence is a key to the whole method. At least it was an eye opener when I started to se how trends repeats themself with the same volume pattern over and over, in almost the exakt same way, efteryday.

I have started a premarked log where i write where the market is on the degapped chart in terms of volume cycles and trendchannels an how it relates to previous day or bigger channels. I also take the gap into concidertion. Then I wright in short what I think will happen, and afterwords if my predictions were right or wrong. It has also been very useful.

Posted by Mushroom on 11-13-11 11:11 PM:

Quote from bmwhendrix:

I just get a blank screen, media player does not start. If others can view it, I guess I have a problem here.

Thanks,

If you use firefox you need a plug in for windows mediaplayer

Posted by stasbz on 11-14-11 05:47 AM:

Quote from workwithus:

Check out the attachment entitled "watch the games".Jack's next post on the same page.hth

checked out 10 times!
you can only advice to check out? Yoy dont know! why do you advice to check out in that case?

Posted by pepdegree on 11-14-11 09:01 AM:

Swtr,
U have a good deal of valuable information u gathered now.Now do the exact opposite!
Aaaaaaahah

Posted by Lucrum on 11-14-11 02:57 PM:

Quote from jack hershey:

11-07-11 06:48 PM

Should I put up the code for 10 leading indicators of price?

Posted by DB_sezwhat on 11-14-11 10:03 PM:

Quote from jack hershey:

Most use the PRV which is available 12 seconds into a 5-min bar. Here you find the Peaking of volume about 2 to 4 minutes ahead of the price extreme.

For the 300 second duration, you get to look for the time the bar stretches to it's maximum. MAX put up those values in a PACE vs Volatility chart. Also use the PACE vs Overlap.

As you say the DOM will have a WALL at this price value as well. But you have to undeerstand three other leading indicators here by assessing the games played by smart money on the DOM.

As you look at the S/S, you see 20 to 30 seconds before this price extreme, that the smart money has switched sentiment sides (Use the color coding and when the axis is crossed.). Prior to that you have two more leading indicators as measured by velocity and acceration of the envelope.

On the OTR chart you use the two pairs analysis and regard the shift in dominance at the extreme of the pairs.

For the three indicators you observe the fast Stoch going through 50% line and the cross overs on the slow Stoch of the 20 or 80 (which ever applies). The MACD will be doing a sequence of 3 cases according to C to Xover to D; then it will reach the designers absolute value for the impending trend. (For humor, you will remember T28 choosing the wrong signal a while back)

By using the YM as a leading indicator of ES, you have a series of leading signals on the next faster fractal. The sequence is 1, BO of RTL, 2, 3 and the ftt. Many minutes could be involved in this faster fractal sequence.

All together, if a person's mind is fully differentiated by using these degrees of information, the market trades are done with certainty that comes from the fact that a binary go/nogo system is used. The binary signals are also sweet in that they have a vector dimension as well.

No betting; no prediction, just "anticipation" that comes from an order of events well understood from building the mind using drills.

QED.

Thanks as always for you're detailed response. I didn't want to overwhelm anyone with leading indicators as I knew that Lucrum was eagerly awaiting for a reply from you.

I just assumed PRV was a given for anyone reading this thread due to its importance, and of course any reliable platform will have it as well as global variables.

CDV has replaced MAK's spreadsheet for me. Perhaps you have some insight on that as well as the dom games. I do look at order book delta at events though.

The S/S is another indicator that I understand but don't use, mostly because I haven't been able to set it up right( anchoring the drift). I think nkhoi may have for sierra charts, maybe he can chime in.

Of course the ym 2 minute chart is a staple on my trading display with CDV also.

Posted by Lucrum on 11-14-11 11:51 PM:

Quote from DB_sezwhat:

Thanks as always for you're detailed response. I didn't want to overwhelm anyone with leading indicators as I knew that Lucrum was eagerly awaiting for a reply from you.

I just assumed PRV was a given for anyone reading this thread due to its importance, and of course any reliable platform will have it as well as global variables.

CDV has replaced MAK's spreadsheet for me. Perhaps you have some insight on that as well as the dom games. I do look at order book delta at events though.

The S/S is another indicator that I understand but don't use, mostly because I haven't been able to set it up right( anchoring the drift). I think nkhoi may have for sierra charts, maybe he can chime in.

Of course the ym 2 minute chart is a staple on my trading display with CDV also.

PRV?
CDV?

Posted by TIKITRADER on 11-15-11 02:09 AM:

Quote from Lucrum:

PRV?
CDV?

The list is getting longer

Posted by pepdegree on 11-15-11 02:17 AM:

11-14-11 02:57 PM

Quote from jack hershey:

11-07-11 06:48 PM

Should I put up the code for 10 leading indicators

Jack I cannot keep up with SCT so far for a numerous reasons.Can you please suggest a couple of reliable barometers to navigate swing cycles?

BR

Posted by bmwhendrix on 11-15-11 02:29 AM:

I know you were a follower of Jacks from quite a ways back with the Tuscon Investors Daily group. How has it worked out?

This is a sincere question as I know you and some others here have a
long history with Jack.

Posted by SK0 on 11-15-11 04:15 AM:

Jack has a long love and hate relationship with many detractors in this forum. The problem I see is that he gives away his idea FREE but none of them UNDERSTAND and APPLY what he has said. If Jack did not give away free, I guess that the detractors would disperse quietly.

Posted by bmwhendrix on 11-15-11 04:31 AM:

SKO, You are wrong. Just because something is free, you assume it has value? True, much of what Jack babbles around are age old ideas and methodologies.

The problem is that it is not free. Under the false promise of being able to make "3 times the daily range" following a guru who has "no losing trades" costs many new traders much time and money. Ask Spydertrader. That is why I despise liars, psychics, thieves and charlatans.. Not being a member of that group is easy to prove, but if the proof is not there, then all can see the emperor has no clothes. Thus, you will never see Jack post real trades. They do not even need to be posted in real time. They do not even need to be with real money. Simply the end of day trades from the daily trade page of a known trading program.

What could be more simple?

LOL

Posted by SK0 on 11-15-11 05:44 AM:

You are too smart, bmwhendrix. But you "forgot" to think hard and do the work yourself. You can blame your parents or government for your unhappiness. But nobody owe you anything to prove to you especially in trading. We are all competitors, right? Last, don't believe in any free stuff unless proven by YOURSELF.

Posted by bmwhendrix on 11-15-11 02:11 PM:

Well SKO, you have been a Jack follower for over 4 years. Please post an end of day log of your trades as I asked before.

See eventually you have to put up or shut up.

Or keep babbling. Oh, "nothing to prove" is the old adage that means "I ain't got nothin to show"

Have a great day.

Don't take any of this too seriously, nobody else does.

Posted by Buy1Sell2 on 11-15-11 02:14 PM:

Quote from DB_sezwhat:

RSI and 180 points stops are to be ignored.

Who is using RSI by itself and 180 point stops? No one I know.

Jack and his method(s) are to be ignored.

Posted by braincell on 11-15-11 02:57 PM:

I've been reading 100s of posts on the Jack Hershey method with an open mind. I think it has a lot of potential if described correctly. After so much reading, i was expecting to get some clarification. I understand how trend channels are supposedly built, what an FTT is, how to read volume, how to interpret BOs and FBOs, and so on. I've been developing systems for quite some time, i'm a programmer, and have had sufficient success in low-risk live trading. I've looked at a lot of different "indicators" and developed many of my own. Some parts of the jack hershey method strike me as remarkably similar to my own conclusion, especially about the FTT, that i almost thought "he stole my idea!".

However, I still have a lot of questions, so I won't ask all of them at once. Here are a few easy ones.

1- When a trend channel is forming we need points 123. I've seen charts where people have drawn those points. There seems to be very little consistency in defining what those points are however. They are supposed to be "highs and lows". In one chart posted by Jack, they are defined as highest bar out of 10+ bars around it. This means that at least 5 bars need to be lower in the past and future for it to be considered a "high" point. On other charts i've seen this number as low as 1, meaning that some people have constructed points 1 and 2 on two bars, without knowing if the 3rd bar will or will not end up higher still. These are the basics of "highs and lows detecting indicators". These indicators require a period of refference, and this to me is unclear. Sure, i can subjectively see them, but here is the problem. There is no consistency in detecting points 123, and if we wanted to make "sure" that for example point 3 is really where we thought it is, we have to wait N bars (ie 5 bars) to make sure no subsequent bars go below it. That means we have to wait 5 bars after pt3 has appeared to construct a trend channel. This then means we can enter the channel and be in a trade about 5 bars after point 3, and by that time we can't say if the trend channel will even continue sufficiently to be profitable. So my question is: what are the clear rules for defining points 123? Highest bar of how many, and of course comparing volume too, can anyone declare those rules or make them clearer?

2- After reading so much I also didn't figure out how FTT followed by a BO is supposed to be defined. Some define a BO as a breakout from a trend, but what happens if the price gets back into the trend and thus creates an FBO? How long do we wait for a BO to be confirmed? 4 bars? 5 bars? 0.2% of price change from the FTT? 15% increase in volume? Any criteria at all? Or is it just kinda subjective.

---------------------

I have more questions but these are good enough for me, for now. If anyone can answer me but doesn't want to because they think i didn't "read enough on my own" and that "they don't want to serve me answers without me searching for them more" then please direct me to where i could obtain information to clarify this. I am very good at using google and searching in general, so i think i've done my part.

Note: I am completely open and unbiased at this moment. I don't like people flaming Jack without proof, nor do I like people boasting about the system and saying some are "too thick to get it". I myself have worked on systems far more complex, and agree with the hypothesis jack has presented. I am unsure i agree with the methodology because to me it is unclear, and this is what i want to figure out. I approach this with my usual scientific mind and curiosity.

Finally:
If Jack, Spytrader, or anyone with a track record of using the system for over a year wants to explain it to me fully and devote the time to get to the nuts and bolts, i can assure that person that i can make a computer do it just as well as a human mind can. As long as the system has rules. I'm willing to devote a few months of my time and my proprietary trading, backtesting, study and analysis platform just out of curiosity - to put this theory to the test. If somebody tells me that these "rules" cannot be coded, my reply will be that in that case there are no rules to begin with and it's all speculative and subjective - thus eliminating any need for proving or disproving the hypothesis, because there is none. Also note my trading platform is already able to create trend channels, digaonal support/resistance and horizontal support/resistance trend lines. The trend channel creation in particular is very fast and accurate, and lots of studies have been done to make sure they are "the best detectable TCs" that can be found.

Posted by nkhoi on 11-15-11 03:04 PM:

Quote from braincell:

..

However, I still have a lot of questions, so I won't ask all of them at once. Here are a few easy ones.
...

I know where you are heading for, look up ETLUKER

Posted by braincell on 11-15-11 03:53 PM:

Quote from nkhoi:

I know where you are heading for, look up ETLUKER

I just went and read almost all of his posts. I didn't find anything too revealing. I have already coded a trend-channel constructor and future trend channel filter/constructor, as well as automated harmonics analysis and a lot of fancy stuff i've never seen anybody else code. This isn't about bragging, claiming i'm a genius, or about looking for indicators however. ETLURKER's posts have however led me to a thread about how somebody with a similar mindset "RoughTrader" tried implementing the hershey method but failed ultimately to get clarification. This is not encouraging.

I'm still looking forward to somebody answering the two questions in my previous post. Thanks

Posted by nkhoi on 11-15-11 04:04 PM:

Quote from braincell:

I just went and read almost all of his posts. I didn't find anything too revealing. I have already coded a trend-channel constructor and future trend channel filter/constructor, as well as automated harmonics analysis and a lot of fancy stuff i've never seen anybody else code. This isn't about bragging, claiming i'm a genius, or about looking for indicators however. ETLURKER's posts have however led me to a thread about how somebody with a similar mindset "RoughTrader" tried implementing the hershey method but failed ultimately to get clarification. This is not encouraging.

I'm still looking forward to somebody answering the two questions in my previous post. Thanks

its very simple the bottom line, as far automating this method is concerned, is either you have some success or you fail. Eventually both groups will disappear but for diff reasons.

Posted by braincell on 11-15-11 08:37 PM:

Quote from timenspace:

Look at your futures through the eyes of a previous sad loser that couldn't think for himself:

...

Ok, so in the end he says it helped him see something he didn't before. So your point is the jack hershey method is useful? I know, i've read multiple opinions while reading the 100s of posts, and have seen that the majority of people have gotten something useful out of it but couldn't quantify the method fully, so were ultimately disappointed. Whatever their results, it doesn't matter. I'm at 50/50 right now in thinking that it works. Like i said, the principle of trend channel following works. I just think the strategy lacks money management in a flat market and would like to see jack post an example when there is a whipsaw session. Regardless of those problems, there are things to learn, and if not learn, at least be curious about it. I have my own methods and have my own edge, working on improving it, i'm just in the process of collecting ideas and integrating them into my own system. I don't intend to follow anyone blindly. Like with most research topics, you expect a failure in the overall sense but my mind is curious and if i get some bits of insight for the different way of looking at things, i'll say i got something out of it. For now, the FTT concept is the only interesting thing, and it has given me an idea to construct my trend channels in various other ways also.

Back on topic: I am still waiting for answers to my two questions. Anyone?

Posted by baro-san on 11-15-11 09:41 PM:

Quote from braincell:

... Back on topic: I am still waiting for answers to my two questions. Anyone?

Nobody will answer your two questions, because probably they aren't proper questions for this method.

There are 1000's of posts by Jack Hershey and Spydertrader dealing with various aspects of their trading approach. You have to really understand where they're coming from, and change the way you're thinking about trading: stay at all times on the "right side of the market". There's no prediction in the usual sense. There are no rules in the usual sense. All the 'indicators" and the "helpers" (including the leading price indicators) seem to have to be continuously scanned in order to allow you to decide at every moment the "right side of the market". At any time your perception changes, on the fractal you're trading, you reverse your position.

From the many people who tried this and the few that credibly claimed to succeed, the conclusion can't be other than: not everybody can re-train his mind the way this method requires.

Good luck!

Posted by bmwhendrix on 11-15-11 10:40 PM:

Quote from baro-san:

Nobody will answer your two questions, because probably they aren't proper questions for this method.

There are 1000's of posts by Jack Hershey and Spydertrader dealing with various aspects of their trading approach. You have to really understand where they're coming from, and change the way you're thinking about trading: stay at all times on the "right side of the market". There's no prediction in the usual sense. There are no rules in the usual sense. All the 'indicators" and the "helpers" (including the leading price indicators) seem to have to be continuously scanned in order to allow you to decide at every moment the "right side of the market". At any time your perception changes, on the fractal you're trading, you reverse your position.

From the many people who tried this and the few that credibly claimed to succeed, the conclusion can't be other than: not everybody can re-train his mind the way this method requires.

Good luck!

BARO, Could you direct me to the documentation for those "few that credibly claimed" I assume the credibility comes from something other than after the fact ET posts.

Thanks,

Posted by Lucrum on 11-15-11 10:54 PM:

Quote from jack hershey:

11-07-11 06:48 PM

Should I put up the code for 10 leading indicators of price?

Posted by jack hershey on 11-15-11 11:10 PM:

A lot of software programmers have done what you are thinking about.

Their performance for PVT is on record in many locations.

Since you are a programmer, I can keep it brief and to the point.

First, generate the compact program for the Hypothesis Set (HS) and it's Parametric Measures (PM). Basically review "inkind" as presented by Keynes. Then use the logic theory of Carnap.

The market dictates that you work in Boolean Algebra. The tricky part is the Parametric Measures which you have NOT grasp at all. Try to understand that there is a key aspect of markets that has eluded almost all programmers and certainly all the quants and book writers.

All market have granularity. This must be understood.

If you choose to use market data, then you have to use the proper parametric measure.

It is important that you be TOLD this so you can stop meandering around. If you "get it" then you can read all the posts and books and periodicals that show that NO one "gets it" and they are just making use of their acquired skills instead.

Getting all kinds of training is important nut there is a caveat. The problems you choose to address dictate the applied mathematics of the situation.

In markets, there is the special issue of when a mistake is made, you have to recognize it and backtrack to a point that is before your mistake.

You have made a lot of mistakes and you may actually believe what you have done.

The gerunds of the HS dictate the PM only and only if you are taking into account the granularity of the market.

Deductively, only the pattern results on interlocking fractals.

I am telling you that you have to use a velocity as the PM. Let me assume that you have studied science and technology. For this reason, you may not be able to calculate velocity in markets. Most likely you will make a big mistake. Your mind may be closed to the proposition that time is NOT involved. You have demonstrated this limitation so far in your life.

Why do you think the earliest mathematicians who worked on building indicators for the markets used a six case method? They did not "get it."

I know that people do not understand what I write, easily. It is an experience to have me as a prof or instructor. I allow learners to do as they wish and produce what they may. then we go through the process of examining their foilbles and take them off the table.

In velocity there is a numerator and a denominator. You are incorrect in what you use as a denominator. From now on use 1 event as the denominator. 1 is the magnitude, the dimension is "event". See if you can eliminate your use of "time" as a dimension and the d of time.

An object could have a velocity and it would be dx/dt for a given function in a given Alegbra. Usually the Agebra is the base 10 algebra. There is a different algebra for each different base chosen.

As I said, I am difficult to understand simply because I am very knowledgeable and very thorough. You have not had such an experience before. You are very messy and clumsy when you deal with factual information.

Markets operate as systems. Systems have three parts. My trading results in the system of the market and trader, yield results that people ignorantly joke about because they are NOT competent. So it goes.

Q1. Begin with the smallest elements of the market: ticks and events. Deductively build the interlocking fractal relationship of the structure of the P, V system. The pattern emerges as the ONLY possibility. It has 100% probability and is 100% certain. If you make no mistakes and do not use your past series of mistakes.

Q2 If you did Q1, then you have the events order straight. Notice that the P, V relationship for FTT and BO is perfectly precise and clear. FTT is a reversal and NOT a retrace AND volume is a Peak. The BO is a geometric occurance in the order of EVENTS where price is crossing a previously established velocity (the dx/dt kind) and volume is at a trough. now you may know, but probably not.

Write out in your journal what a Peak and what a Trough is. Use the intersection of the two Parametric Measures in each case. This is where one measure ends and another begins, given the granularity of the markets.

As you use Boolean Algebra the Algebra of the base 2, you notice, and Lucrim does not, that equations are NOT the rage. But logic sheets are. Or in your terms, logic sheets are represented by "programmer's coding".

The 10 leading indicators are written this way and are found, for various codes, in a 270 page collection in a thread in ET. Lazy, lazy Lucrim.

The structure of the system is expressed in seven feedback loops where each loop respresents the same logic in the form of the pattern's logic.

Information is fed into this logic structure and the variables produce what-ever display arrangement is specified. This is the process of the structure.

Most CW displays sum all of the volumes of each fractal, so annotating the volume has to be done with several line colors and line weights.

There is some CW that suggests losing is part of trading. This is only true, if the trader is doing the CW myths and consequences. All of the financial industry is in this mistaken trap. Remember when Demi says: "the formula doesn't work." The corporation had a different objective, however (Sales). CW doesn't work and it is not a requirement of the financial industry. People who follow the rules all of their lives are overpowered by the CW of the financial industry. Ask your parents.

The system results do not include losses since they do not exist in the system. The same is true for noise and anomalies.

For making money, results what is don is to sum the events and the slpe of the container is the money velocity of each part.

final note: drop FBO and use "fanning".

Posted by jack hershey on 11-15-11 11:12 PM:

Quote from braincell:

I just went and read almost all of his posts. I didn't find anything too revealing. I have already coded a trend-channel constructor and future trend channel filter/constructor, as well as automated harmonics analysis and a lot of fancy stuff i've never seen anybody else code. This isn't about bragging, claiming i'm a genius, or about looking for indicators however. ETLURKER's posts have however led me to a thread about how somebody with a similar mindset "RoughTrader" tried implementing the hershey method but failed ultimately to get clarification. This is not encouraging.

I'm still looking forward to somebody answering the two questions in my previous post. Thanks

Basically, were I you, I would chose to believe it doesn't work because it will save you a lot of time.

As you can see there are a lot of P/L's posted by people who could not program the back test required (T666 is a mediocre example).

Posted by jack hershey on 11-15-11 11:14 PM:

Quote from bmwhendrix:

BARO, Could you direct me to the documentation for those "few that credibly claimed" I assume the credibility comes from something other than after the fact ET posts.

Thanks,

You can drop the assumption.

I do not feel it would be possible for you to gain entrance to the more modern forums (electronic) that exist. There is a performance requirement.

Posted by workwithus on 11-15-11 11:20 PM:

[QUOTE]Quote from braincell:

So my question is: what are the clear rules for defining points 123? Highest bar of how many, and of course comparing volume too, can anyone declare those rules or make them clearer?

By your question it appears that you don't understand jack's method.Start by studying the two bar "cases" and how to draw the trendlines for them.Study how to put the points(1,2,3) at this basic level.Study the basic volume sequence(order of events) of a fast,medium and slow container.Study the important concept of nesting and how this applies to the fast,medium and slow containers.Study how to draw guassians for these three container levels.Study how to draw containers that match these guassians.Study how internal and lateral formations fit into reading rtl fbo's.Study VE's and how they affect the containers.When you have finished these studies you will have answered your questions.Besides the excellent info on ET you may want to check out this thread also.http://www.traderslaboratory.com/fo...lationship.html

Posted by jack hershey on 11-15-11 11:21 PM:

Quote from Lucrum:

So you do not know what a cricket looks like......lol ...

Posted by bmwhendrix on 11-15-11 11:46 PM:

Quote from jack hershey:

You can drop the assumption.

I do not feel it would be possible for you to gain entrance to the more modern forums (electronic) that exist. There is a performance requirement.

Thanks Jack, Just what I thought. There is none.

Posted by jack hershey on 11-16-11 12:07 AM:

Quote from bmwhendrix:

Thanks Jack, Just what I thought. There is none for me

You are correct.

Work is a requirement. Work is not on your list of what matters.

People who do the work just don't cotton to people who do not work.

This may be like medical school, chef school, locomotive engineer school, law school, or other professions where doing work is the foundation of learning knowledge and skills. The financial industry is based upon sales and, secondarily, mantaining specific client turnover ratios. (Clients move after a while).

This kind of trading is not a sales oriented or client retention activity.

Full time trading is not a goal of our traders. It does not take a lot of trading to maintain a given lifestyle.

all of this is oriented to working very hard so not much work is required.

You may be skipping the first step because your time is too important to work.

This trading is unbelievable to you so you should let it go at that.

Posted by jack hershey on 11-16-11 12:15 AM:

Quote from timenspace:

Poor old Jack, still deluding himself and others

Hey Jack The Swordsman (R. Raskolnikov) keeps PM'ing me and crying about how mean we all are to you..

Once a sucker always a sucker I guess

You are not mean at all. Tell the big R that I said you are a nothing in a sand box and not a meeny at all. Have you heard of Eeny, meeny, and miny? We don't need any Mo.

You just have a sandbox orientation and you do not know that not everyone plays in sandboxes all their lives.

Get a bigger sandbox and stop pooping in it all the time.

I've never met a stranger ..... and I'm not a leader.

My bag is gifting and getting people to help in their communities. .... you do not want it ... so leave it

Posted by bmwhendrix on 11-16-11 12:43 AM:

Oh, I totally get it Jack. Look back over your last few posts, and the ones on this thread before those.

You have sidestepped all the questions asked of you with personal attacks.

If you would like to really help new traders. Show them the money.

Not just your fiction. Show them actual entries and exits. Or those of any of your followers who "got it".

Unfortunately, you do not have the necessary skills to enter into the arena of profitable traders. You must pass a membership requirement of being able to make money trading and show it if you are going to promote it. Else you lose all respect.

I sincerely believe you to be a charlatan and that you are providing a dis-service to any new trader. You are literate, and have command of a certain vocabulary, but you provide nothing new and what you do offer you present under false promise.

I fully get that you probably do not have more in your life now than this. Everything can be found about a person if you know where to look.

You could be a better person, you have the ability, you just have not put in the proper work in that direction. You still have time.

So respond to me with your usual BS. We all get it.

Glad I can give you something to do.

Posted by Lucrum on 11-16-11 12:53 AM:

Quote from jack hershey:

...The 10 leading indicators are written this way and are found, for various codes, in a 270 page collection in a thread in ET...

So why didn't you say so AND provide a link, rather than threatening to post them you senile geriatric old fool?

11-07-11 06:48 PM
Should I put up the code for 10 leading indicators of price?

Posted by ammo on 11-16-11 01:02 AM:

trading small channels can be very profitable and if you watch it long enough i think you could forecast the turns,that's what jack is trying to show ,there is nothing fake or complicated about it,there is something fake in the years of attacks by a poser who changes his handle more often than anyone on this site,and its complicated to try to find any reasoning behind the onslaught of insults directed his way,i guess down the road they will have studied the internet blogsites and come up with some new mental deficiencies previously undetected that are a byproduct of an intense fear of personal social interaction released onto the internet as a social blowoff valve for those who never leave the house,but for now Jack and everyone reading any of his contributions will have to put up with these brave keyboard cowboys who are afraid of the mailman ,paperboy,anyone who gets within 20 feet of their front door

Posted by Lucrum on 11-16-11 01:32 AM:

Quote from ammo:

trading small channels can be very profitable and if you watch it long enough i think you could forecast the turns,that's what jack is trying to show...

If he'd simply say as much and dispense with all the obfuscation and unnecessary complication I have a feeling he wouldn't have so many detractors.

Posted by workwithus on 11-16-11 03:10 AM:

Quote from Lucrum:

So why didn't you say so AND provide a link

check out finer tools like prv,str-squ,dom walls and the tic chart for starters.http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...056#post1716056

Posted by ammo on 11-16-11 05:10 PM:

Quote from timenspace:

Hey Jacky.. Look MA, no MACD

Channels.. we don't need no stinkin channels.. there are more graceful subtle 'simple' ways to carve a path between the bulls and bears ;)

i use em,like today in oil,picked top in appl but mostly mp,most familiar with it,there are a million ways to trade,also a million ways to interact socially,as jack likes his channels and explains why,you like to change names and spew cowdung,can you explain why you are so reverent to this action..judging by your chart and past rare comments on the market under previous alias's,you have a lot more to offer than following jack around playing that fu record over and over,harder to understand than jack even

Posted by ammo on 11-16-11 05:38 PM:

Posted by ammo on 11-16-11 09:29 PM:

Quote from ammo:

,you like to change names and spew cowdung,can you explain why

4 hrs later ,still silence

Posted by bwolinsky on 11-16-11 10:01 PM:

Quote from workwithus:

[QUOTE]Quote from braincell:

So my question is: what are the clear rules for defining points 123? Highest bar of how many, and of course comparing volume too, can anyone declare those rules or make them clearer?

By your question it appears that you don't understand jack's method.Start by studying the two bar "cases" and how to draw the trendlines for them.Study how to put the points(1,2,3) at this basic level.Study the basic volume sequence(order of events) of a fast,medium and slow container.Study the important concept of nesting and how this applies to the fast,medium and slow containers.Study how to draw guassians for these three container levels.Study how to draw containers that match these guassians.Study how internal and lateral formations fit into reading rtl fbo's.Study VE's and how they affect the containers.When you have finished these studies you will have answered your questions.Besides the excellent info on ET you may want to check out this thread also.http://www.traderslaboratory.com/fo...lationship.html

Ignore this, braincell, the code I gave you is all you'll need to understand Jack's Cash Cow, and there really isn't any code for rockets, nor the pv he talks about. It does not exist. He's lying about that.

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by bwolinsky on 11-16-11 10:07 PM:

Quote from bmwhendrix:

Bwolinsky, If my memory serves me, was it you who backtested some of Jacks systems? If so, do you have the results available to post?

If we have anybody who uses Wealth Lab Pro I'll give them the code for it. They need to post backtests in Wealth Lab before I'll give them my WL6 code.

Backtests I believe are here somewhere: search for the user Scottd and follow the thread to where it forks and you'll find nearly all of the performance information in its entirety. I don't feel like looking this up because it appears Scottd was a multi-alias and a complete failure.

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by bwolinsky on 11-16-11 10:11 PM:

Quote from nkhoi:

let's make one thing clear, there is no back testing only forward testing is acceptable for this method.

Stupidly, yes, there is a way to backtest, and I really don't care what you think of backtests. You need to see results before you can ever walk forward and that should be a commandment when it comes to trading. You wouldn't ever start tracking something without knowing how well it works, so this is not a constructive comment to make, especially for a moderator!

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by bwolinsky on 11-16-11 10:32 PM:

The unethical moderators in this thread removed the link to the fork where the thread displayed the actual code I used as well as the performance summaries that were in that.

Whoever did so is cowardly, unethical, and if it was a moderator that moderator should be banned for behaving like such a spoiled child.

PS:I DID FIND IT!

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by nkhoi on 11-16-11 10:40 PM:

Quote from bwolinsky:

..
The unethical moderators in this thread removed the link to the fork where the thread displayed the actual code I used as well as the performance summaries that were in that.

Whoever did so is cowardly, unethical, and if it was a moderator that moderator should be banned for behaving like such a spoiled child.

PS:I DID FIND IT!
...

LOL!

Posted by bwolinsky on 11-16-11 10:52 PM:

If you want to know what Jack Hershey's SYSTEM REALLY IS THEN READ THIS YOU IDIOT

Quote from nkhoi:

LOL!

That was the last backtest in the thread, and the code's there for all to see, but be aware it has never been found to be profitable on anything but .SPX, and if you really wanted to trade it you'll need to trade something worthwhile, like sds and sso.

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by bwolinsky on 11-16-11 11:32 PM:

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by nkhoi on 11-16-11 11:50 PM:

Quote from bwolinsky:

[B]
... I WANT EVERYONE TO KNOW THAT THERE IS NO OTHER DATASET IN THE GALAXY THAT WILL GIVE YOU A PROFITABLE BACKTEST OF HIS METHOD, ...

didn't I say you can't backtest this method already? Your backtest profitable on some obscure Fildelity dataset was purely coincidental.

Posted by ammo on 11-17-11 12:38 AM:

et seems to falling off the cliff

Posted by bwolinsky on 11-17-11 01:01 AM:

Quote from nkhoi:

didn't I say you can't backtest this method already? Your backtest profitable on some obscure Fildelity dataset was purely coincidental.

You're fos, nkhoi. If you really knew how to confirm third party claims you would be able to do this yourself. As is you are just a lame duck moderator in this thread. There is zero coincidence, and I really think that your knowledge of quantitative things is extremely limited and I know now you use no automation in your trading, making you cannon fodder for my systems (I'm not referring to the JH method cash cow here, it's a joke but as I needed to absolutely explode on the people that perpetuate this myth that the JH will help you trade, it does not. It takes momentum trades when MACD is below 50, but, seriously, look at the code, code it, load the right data for once and then backtest it).

Since these directions are too difficult for you to follow I will need to keep that in mind if I need help with any moderation.

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by PointOne on 11-17-11 01:14 AM:

Quote from bwolinsky:

Top ranting.

Posted by bwolinsky on 11-17-11 01:16 AM:

Quote from PointOne:

Top ranting.

It was a good one wasn't it? Guess I need to keep the bold capslock on. It really did drive home the point, didn't it?

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by bwolinsky on 11-17-11 01:33 AM:

Quote from timenspace:

Pardon me I am on the other side of the world and your lunch breaks are so boring

But your question (obviously written in some strange form of hieroglyphics) is preposterous and I don't give a shit if you fluke the odd top with Jack's rubbish.. it simply doesn't work and neither you or Jack can show me a single person that's become successful with it.. including Jack himself who is broke and in debt to the taxman

Everything else is bullshit if you can't show me one single follower (after more than 10 years of Jack's mentoring) that has any real money

You simply can't

I'm tired after the rant. The data is on a silver platter, but I think the system is laid out in a cross-platinum, diamond encrusted, gold plate.

If loading ascii data is too difficult, you're not even qualified to be a trader and you should immediately quit and seek professional help...Now!

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by MarketMasher on 11-17-11 02:32 AM:

Quote from timenspace:

partying with any of these ladies Jack?

Didn't think so

Own one of these Jack?

You used to say you did until we researched the name of the boat you gave and it turned out to be owned by someone else

Surely you are driving something like this around with that cash cow getting 3x the daily range everyday without a single loss?

No?

I WANT EVERY ONE OF THOSE TOO!! (Ok, not particularly. Maybe just the babes )

Will Jack Hershey's system get them for me? I am eager to learn!!

BTW bwolinsky, what do you REALLY think?

Posted by nkhoi on 11-17-11 04:53 AM:

Quote from bwolinsky:

It was a good one wasn't it? Guess I need to keep the bold capslock on. It really did drive home the point, didn't it?

yes, it sure did, backtesting didn't work it drove you nut.

Posted by pepdegree on 11-17-11 09:34 AM:

At least nkhoi,unlike many of u hear,keep staying supportive and polite at all times.You are all led by tamas where ignorance=anxiety .

Posted by ammo on 11-17-11 09:41 AM:

Quote from timenspace:

Pardon me I am on the other side of the world and your lunch breaks are so boring

But your question (obviously written in some strange form of hieroglyphics) is preposterous and I don't give a shit if you fluke the odd top with Jack's rubbish.. it simply doesn't work and neither you or Jack can show me a single person that's become successful with it.. including Jack himself who is broke and in debt to the taxman

Everything else is bullshit if you can't show me one single follower (after more than 10 years of Jack's mentoring) that has any real money

You simply can't

(still didn't answer the why question)you are the biggest follower/detractor,i can't figure out why a guy of your iq would spend so much time changing handles and chasing jack,again,tell the world why you are saving us from jack,in plain english or hieroglyphics if you want

Posted by pepdegree on 11-17-11 10:02 AM:

Quote from timenspace:

partying with any of these ladies Jack?

Didn't think so

Own one of these Jack?

You used to say you did until we researched the name of the boat you gave and it turned out to be owned by someone else

Surely you are driving something like this around with that cash cow getting 3x the daily range everyday without a single loss?

No?

Non-resident things that don't contain any real value.Maybe you'll find out someday,that there is no big difference,if you have them on your laptop or in reality.

Posted by MarketMasher on 11-18-11 12:23 AM:

bwolinsky says he ran a backtest on specific rules from an old system.

But I don't understand anyone's claim that a current system (whatever form it is currently in) can't be backtested.

To say that is to basically say there is a profitable system that has rules that are not definable. If so, that would be a "faith-based" system, or like telling Luke to use the Force.

If a system has vague rules, it can't be taught, let alone learned.

Woodie's CCI used to get around that with something called "nuances" to rules. But WTF is a "nuance" except a sub-rule to a rule? The term is just used as an obfuscation technique.

Walk-forward testing is always necessary. Backtesting is necessary but not sufficient in itself. But not sufficient does not mean "useless". To say that a system can't be backtested is a cop-out and the first sign of a charlatan.

Posted by Vienna on 11-18-11 12:54 AM:

Question to Jack

Hello Jack,

it seems you sure bring out the crazies lol....(to the crazies: Please! Go away...I have not done anything to you...most of you are invisible but one of you forces me to drop another sock puppet in the ignore bin every time I log on, which is mildly irritating. Perhaps you want to open another thread called "Questions to the crazies").

To Jack: am drilling..did almost 4 months of charts, drawing price from Vol bars only. This definitely helps! Now I am trying to see the tells that foreshadow WHICH vol peak will be the real FTT... I do not see that this decision can be done by Volume alone, it seems to be a combination of the price bar and the gaussians/ pace.

Here is a refinement question if you can find the time:

I understand that formations straddling the RTL cause the RTL to fan. Was wondering if you could perhaps give some guidance as to WHICH RTL the formation/pennant causes to fan.
Sometimes this can be seen to apply to 2 nestled containers, a traverse and a channel for example. A formation cand straddle both.
Please see attached today's chart for an example.

I am trying to find a systematic way of dealing with this... like much about this method, I am sure it is context-dependent.
"FFF" does not seem to solve the issue in this case...?

TYVM as always for your help!

Best,

Vienna

__________________
Vienna

Posted by pepdegree on 11-18-11 01:38 AM:

I still can't get the purpose of fanning.Vienna,do you realize the purpose of doing the fan drills??

Posted by RCG Trader on 11-18-11 01:49 AM:

Re: Question to Jack

Quote from Vienna:

Hello Jack,

it seems you sure bring out the crazies lol....(to the crazies: Please! Go away...I have not done anything to you...most of you are invisible but one of you forces me to drop another sock puppet in the ignore bin every time I log on, which is mildly irritating. Perhaps you want to open another thread called "Questions to the crazies").

To Jack: am drilling..did almost 4 months of charts, drawing price from Vol bars only. This definitely helps! Now I am trying to see the tells that foreshadow WHICH vol peak will be the real FTT... I do not see that this decision can be done by Volume alone, it seems to be a combination of the price bar and the gaussians/ pace.

Here is a refinement question if you can find the time:

I understand that formations straddling the RTL cause the RTL to fan. Was wondering if you could perhaps give some guidance as to WHICH RTL the formation/pennant causes to fan.
Sometimes this can be seen to apply to 2 nestled containers, a traverse and a channel for example. A formation cand straddle both.
Please see attached today's chart for an example.

I am trying to find a systematic way of dealing with this... like much about this method, I am sure it is context-dependent.
"FFF" does not seem to solve the issue in this case...?

TYVM as always for your help!

Best,

Vienna

Just put em on ignore. It's easier.

Posted by bwolinsky on 11-18-11 01:57 AM:

Quote from MarketMasher:

I WANT EVERY ONE OF THOSE TOO!! (Ok, not particularly. Maybe just the babes )

Will Jack Hershey's system get them for me? I am eager to learn!!

BTW bwolinsky, what do you REALLY think?

While I don't know any of the links he's made claiming he makes 3x the daily average, seems to be heresay, I would say that some rather odd old videos are on the internet I think where he made those claims if someone could find them.

Really the lies I've heard about this system disgust me. Go to the links and read about the smack down I'll give to that senile old codger. His method is quaint, humorous even, but to say it's worth all the millions of words and stupid threads written about him is completely unnecessary and wastes everyone's time.

Just as trader666 has prepared remarks whenever Jack Hershey gets mentioned, I, too, will always post that rant if I ever have to go through what I did in that thread just for stupid, jackasses who think any of the outlandish claims of anything like 3x the average range is completely unfounded, a lie, perpetuates a decade old fraud, and serves no legitimate purpose anywhere in finance.

He has conned I'm sure more money from people who probably signed caveat emptor rules because it is absolutely amazing that nobody has sued this lunatic. Really since nobody has that does show a consistent skepticism anybody who is smart enough to make at least a hundred thousand in their lifetime seems able to avoid, but the stories I've heard where thousands of idiots chased his theories is truly appalling, when if he wanted to help you, again, he would just give you the dam code!

Anyway, Jack Hershey makes me sick, and as far as any claims to profitability the shining star is in this thread, ready to explode in a supernova and suck your funds into its neutron vortex enriched blackhole.

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by SK0 on 11-18-11 02:16 AM:

The essence of JHM is to STAY ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE MARKET. It is NOT about finding ftt/FTT. See why so many fools cannot get it?

Context, context, context. What are PEAK and TROUGH? In some cases, a pair of 5-min price and volume bars are not sufficient to know that you know. Drill down inside them to know more.

Posted by BenzMercedesSL on 11-18-11 02:45 AM:

Jack should say 'Thank you' to you (all detractors). Jack is really sharp in ET. The more detracting actions, the more people (I am one of them) learning Jack's method.

You guys probably tried to learn SCT, but failed. You detract just because you don't want other people to "get" SCT.

Well, keeping going. Why don't you create new threadS to argue with Jack?
Here are some good titles for your reference:
"Anyone pulling money out of MF Global, except Jack Hershey"
"Break up with Jack Hershey"
"IB TWS sucks because of Jack Hershey"
"Crazy Jack Hershey"
"Jack Hershey's gibberish"

It will be great if the top 20 forums showing "Jack Hershey"! Looking forward to seeing this.

Please do it because I don't have time.

Posted by PointOne on 11-18-11 08:50 AM:

Quote from SK0:

The essence of JHM is to STAY ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE MARKET. It is NOT about finding ftt/FTT. See why so many fools cannot get it?

Yes, yes, yes.

Wait... what?

Posted by bwolinsky on 11-18-11 09:17 AM:

Quote from PointOne:

Yes, yes, yes.

Wait... what?

Yeah, what? Did he say an acronym I don't need to know nor should I care about? Is that what I heard? Was he talking about the ftt financial transaction tax?

Quote from Jack Hershey:

The logic in the endeavor should always point to the next fractal as long as its within a nested loop. When you move to the next fractal ftt will traverse the pv and pv traverses the next multiverse traverset. If it doesn't cross the multiverse the traverset must end the ftt, which is only known after the first multiverse ends the traversets nested fractal loop.

There, I've said my piece. (He would probably never add which to any of his sentences, but not a bad impersonation, huh?)

Get it?

Next, as soon as Jackass responds we'll need to tell him how awesome he's doing, and how he must be on fire with all these great psychobabbles bubbling out of his chin like some half epileptic nympho whose fetish is watching the ftt traverse above the last nestal fracted loop. I'm sure that's the only way the old geezer can get off, too!

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by jsp326 on 11-18-11 02:39 PM:

Thanks for deleting my post. I guess it's too much to ask for proof of Jack's profitability, eh?

Posted by nkhoi on 11-18-11 02:56 PM:

you give me too much credit/power but hey I appreciate it.

Posted by jsp326 on 11-18-11 03:03 PM:

Quote from nkhoi:

you give me too much credit/power but hey I appreciate it.

So who deleted my post then? Jack via Jedi mind trick?

Posted by Mushroom on 11-18-11 04:14 PM:

There are a lot of ideas from Jack that you can use to create a framework for your own strategy, even if you don't believe in his claims.

I think it's optimistic to believe that even 1 in a 100 would be profitable learning a trading strategy through an internet forum - almost no matter what strategy it is.

I actually think papertraders like me are among the most successful traders on this site, cause we don't bleed money. An elite, you could say.
In that perspective the bashing becomes kind of embarrassing.

Posted by Mushroom on 11-18-11 04:35 PM:

Quote from bmwhendrix:

Studying chop today. I don't like it!

Supportlevel drawn premarket. Kinda useful, right?

Posted by ammo on 11-18-11 05:52 PM:

Quote from bwolinsky:

Yeah, what? Did he say an acronym I don't need to know nor should I care about? Is that what I heard? Was he talking about the ftt financial transaction tax?

There, I've said my piece. (He would probably never add which to any of his sentences, but not a bad impersonation, huh?)

Get it?

Next, as soon as Jackass responds we'll need to tell him how awesome he's doing, and how he must be on fire with all these great psychobabbles bubbling out of his chin like some half epileptic nympho whose fetish is watching the ftt traverse above the last nestal fracted loop. I'm sure that's the only way the old geezer can get off, too!

as usual,another thread trashed by bashers for the last several pages,do you guys add anything ,is the world already bad enough...bitching and moaning ..endlessly

Posted by Mushroom on 11-18-11 06:20 PM:

Although no one seems interested, here's the resistence level drawn premarket, 1221.25. Two ticks from HOD.
S + R = Lateral channel that you can't find on a traditional chart.

Posted by ammo on 11-18-11 06:28 PM:

s +r ,can you explain

Posted by Mushroom on 11-18-11 06:39 PM:

Quote from ammo:

s +r ,can you explain

Support and resistence from a degaped chart.

Posted by baro-san on 11-18-11 09:01 PM:

If you're interested:

Poll: Rants against Hershey and those who follow his posts

Posted by SK0 on 11-19-11 02:32 AM:

Quote from PointOne:

Yes, yes, yes.

Wait... what?

So, you know what I mean in the next pargraph? If so, congrat!

Posted by RCG Trader on 11-19-11 03:28 AM:

Quote from baro-san:

If you're interested:

Poll: Rants against Hershey and those who follow his posts

If you see em, zap em.

You can open up a new tab and have them on ignore in less than 30 seconds.

Posted by bwolinsky on 11-20-11 02:35 AM:

Quote from MarketMasher:

bwolinsky says he ran a backtest on specific rules from an old system.

But I don't understand anyone's claim that a current system (whatever form it is currently in) can't be backtested.

To say that is to basically say there is a profitable system that has rules that are not definable. If so, that would be a "faith-based" system, or like telling Luke to use the Force.

If a system has vague rules, it can't be taught, let alone learned.

Woodie's CCI used to get around that with something called "nuances" to rules. But WTF is a "nuance" except a sub-rule to a rule? The term is just used as an obfuscation technique.

Walk-forward testing is always necessary. Backtesting is necessary but not sufficient in itself. But not sufficient does not mean "useless". To say that a system can't be backtested is a cop-out and the first sign of a charlatan.

DATA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DATA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DATA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DID I SAY???????

DATA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Backtest it with the only dataset that was the one he uses. It's not ES or any other futures symbol. It is only .SPX, and I'm sure thousands of people have some copy of his system, but none of them tried to figure out why if spydertrader was such a great technician why he's only known as writing jack hershey methods scripts that peeked at data....at FIDELITY, which is wealth lab. Use the right data and you'll probably get the expected result. Use the wrong data and you will fail. I guarantee without that data you will fail. You will always fail.

You don't have the right data.

That's why it doesn't work.

I hear you have:

DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAA

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by MarketMasher on 11-20-11 02:45 AM:

Quote from bwolinsky:

DATA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DATA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DATA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DID I SAY???????

DATA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Backtest it with the only dataset that was the one he uses. It's not ES or any other futures symbol. It is only .SPX, and I'm sure thousands of people have some copy of his system, but none of them tried to figure out why if spydertrader was such a great technician why he's only known as writing jack hershey methods scripts that peeked at data....at FIDELITY, which is wealth lab. Use the right data and you'll probably get the expected result. Use the wrong data and you will fail. I guarantee without that data you will fail. You will always fail.

You don't have the right data.

That's why it doesn't work.

I hear you have:

DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAA

Didn't someone say the system (currently) can't be back-tested, only forward-tested?

Not sure why that would be - the rules are too vague? It only runs on instruments that are newly created and have no historical data? The Force is not strong with it?

What would be the reason?

At 3x's daily ATR and on a compounded basis, I'm thinking this system can be used pay off the National Debt! A patriot would offer it to the country and save America!!

Posted by bwolinsky on 11-20-11 03:05 AM:

Quote from MarketMasher:

Didn't someone say the system (currently) can't be back-tested, only forward-tested?

Not sure why that would be - the rules are too vague? It only runs on instruments that are newly created and have no historical data? The Force is not strong with it?

What would be the reason?

At 3x's daily ATR and on a compounded basis, I'm thinking this system can be used pay off the National Debt! A patriot would offer it to the country and save America!!

No, Jack Hershey's system won't ever pay off the national debt, nor will it ever capture anywhere near that much volatility.

The only system in this country with that potential is in Celina, Ohio.

The program's in my rant, along with the datasets you need to backtest it.

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by RCG Trader on 11-20-11 06:38 AM:

Quote from MarketMasher:

Didn't someone say the system (currently) can't be back-tested, only forward-tested?

Not sure why that would be - the rules are too vague? It only runs on instruments that are newly created and have no historical data? The Force is not strong with it?

What would be the reason?

At 3x's daily ATR and on a compounded basis, I'm thinking this system can be used pay off the National Debt! A patriot would offer it to the country and save America!!

sigh

backtest r2r and b2b.....

be sure to include pace in your backtests......

if you do not know what I am talking about, all else is everywhere else, so look it up.

Posted by MarketMasher on 11-20-11 06:35 PM:

sigh

backtest r2r and b2b.....

be sure to include pace in your backtests......

if you do not know what I am talking about, all else is everywhere else, so look it up.

Can you post a Performance Report so I can see if I am going in the right direction?

Posted by bwolinsky on 11-20-11 07:03 PM:

Quote from MarketMasher:

Can you post a Performance Report so I can see if I am going in the right direction?

That WILL BE THE DAY.

I'm still the only one that posts performance summaries. RCG doesn't have any backtests, or else he would have posted them by now, but if he does then the next question is which interval?

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by MarketMasher on 11-20-11 09:15 PM:

Do you love America? Home of the Brave. Land of the Free....

Such a system that gets 3x's ATR daily compounded can save America from the financial disaster of crushing debt!

Will someone step forward and save America?

Picture this - his picture on the cover of TIME with the caption - "A Committee of One To Save The World"

It would be epic.

Posted by bwolinsky on 11-20-11 09:51 PM:

Quote from MarketMasher:

Do you love America? Home of the Brave. Land of the Free....

Such a system that gets 3x's ATR daily compounded can save America from the financial disaster of crushing debt!

Will someone step forward and save America?

Picture this - his picture on the cover of TIME with the caption - "A Committee of One To Save The World"

It would be epic.

Listen to me, I'll put this succinctly:

Jack Hershey is a fraud, and the name of his system is really Jack Hershey Fraud Methods. There are only two people in this world with systems that can do that, and JACK IS NOT ONE OF THEM.

Quit dreaming and posting these stupid replies that arguably have absolutely NOTHING to do with determining the validity of Jack Hershey's Fraud.

Fraud? Does fraud sound like it's something worth pursuing? Quit bringing the dreamliner out already, it's taken WAY TOO LONG to see the light of day.

Now that it has seen the light of day, for more than 3 years now I might add, if nobody's posting accurately reported results then IT'S STILL A FRAUD. The fraud isn't so much that he's lying about it being profitable it's a fraud in the sense that it is absolutely, completely NOT CAPABLE OF PRODUCING THAT LEVEL OF PERFORMANCE... EVER....EVER... EVER...EVER...AND...EVER...NEVER...EVER...Ever.

If you're ignoring me and the pm I sent you then I'm considering ignoring you because you're just as clueless as anybody who thinks his method is anything else BUT A FRAUD. He has violated every rule with regard to what you can say about profitable trading methods and if you don't know why exaggeration and overstating performance is bad, then you ARE CLUELESS.

You don't have to be clueless. The data and the program. Go test it, and when you have your results you'll find them only marginally profitable if it's even still profitable. Most likely I'm still the only one that was able to turn a profitable backtest from all the worthless coding behind a less than 50 line program.

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by RCG Trader on 11-20-11 10:04 PM:

Quote from MarketMasher:

Can you post a Performance Report so I can see if I am going in the right direction?

No.

If you are going the right direction, your trading account will reflect that.

That is all that should matter to you.

Posted by MarketMasher on 11-20-11 11:17 PM:

Quote from bwolinsky:

Listen to me, I'll put this succinctly:

Jack Hershey is a fraud, and the name of his system is really Jack Hershey Fraud Methods. There are only two people in this world with systems that can do that, and JACK IS NOT ONE OF THEM.

Quit dreaming and posting these stupid replies that arguably have absolutely NOTHING to do with determining the validity of Jack Hershey's Fraud.

Fraud? Does fraud sound like it's something worth pursuing? Quit bringing the dreamliner out already, it's taken WAY TOO LONG to see the light of day.

Now that it has seen the light of day, for more than 3 years now I might add, if nobody's posting accurately reported results then IT'S STILL A FRAUD. The fraud isn't so much that he's lying about it being profitable it's a fraud in the sense that it is absolutely, completely NOT CAPABLE OF PRODUCING THAT LEVEL OF PERFORMANCE... EVER....EVER... EVER...EVER...AND...EVER...NEVER...EVER...Ever.

If you're ignoring me and the pm I sent you then I'm considering ignoring you because you're just as clueless as anybody who thinks his method is anything else BUT A FRAUD. He has violated every rule with regard to what you can say about profitable trading methods and if you don't know why exaggeration and overstating performance is bad, then you ARE CLUELESS.

You don't have to be clueless. The data and the program. Go test it, and when you have your results you'll find them only marginally profitable if it's even still profitable. Most likely I'm still the only one that was able to turn a profitable backtest from all the worthless coding behind a less than 50 line program.

Dude, relax.

You seem like a sincere sort, but I'm not taking any orders today. Probably not tomorrow either. No offense.

RCG Trader has declined to help. That's enough.

Posted by RCG Trader on 11-20-11 11:36 PM:

Quote from MarketMasher:

Dude, relax.

You seem like a sincere sort, but I'm not taking any orders today. Probably not tomorrow either. No offense.

RCG Trader has declined to help. That's enough.

I did not decline to help, I did tell you what to backtest.

If someone gives you something for free, then it is up to you to determine the value of it.

If you cannot determine the value of it, then it is not valuable to you, and you should move on to other strats that can help you. The only thing JH cost you is a little bit of time.

Posted by MarketMasher on 11-21-11 01:31 AM:

I did not decline to help, I did tell you what to backtest.

If someone gives you something for free, then it is up to you to determine the value of it.

If you cannot determine the value of it, then it is not valuable to you, and you should move on to other strats that can help you. The only thing JH cost you is a little bit of time.

I tried on some recent data but my curve doesn't look right.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/97/try01.png/

Shouldn't the curve go parabolic and then stay vertical?

Can you post your successful implementation so I can see?

Posted by RCG Trader on 11-21-11 01:42 AM:

Quote from MarketMasher:

I tried on some recent data but my curve doesn't look right.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/97/try01.png/

Shouldn't the curve go parabolic and then stay vertical?

Can you post your successful implementation so I can see?

The curve you posted will suffice. Now go turn that theory into actuality.

Posted by MarketMasher on 11-21-11 01:59 AM:

The curve you posted will suffice. Now go turn that theory into actuality.

I am getting troughs and flat periods, so this is definitely incorrect in at least some respects.

I would like to see what a proper implementation looks like. Please post it so I can compare. It would not be revealing any methods, but at least I could see how far off the mark I am.

Thanks!

Posted by RCG Trader on 11-21-11 02:12 AM:

Quote from MarketMasher:

I am getting troughs and flat periods, so this is definitely incorrect in at least some respects.

I would like to see what a proper implementation looks like. Please post it so I can compare. It would not be revealing any methods, but at least I could see how far off the mark I am.

Thanks!

I stopped backtesting many years ago when I discovered the inherent flaws present in almost every backtesting program. The key here is to understand the concepts, use them to make the best trading decision you can at that moment, know exactly where to get out if you are wrong, and stick to what you are doing, the rest will take care of itself.

More free advice, I suggest you ponder it.

Posted by MarketMasher on 11-21-11 02:23 AM:

I stopped backtesting many years ago when I discovered the inherent flaws present in almost every backtesting program. The key here is to understand the concepts, use them to make the best trading decision you can at that moment, know exactly where to get out if you are wrong, and stick to what you are doing, the rest will take care of itself.

More free advice, I suggest you ponder it.

And I wasted all that time creating a junk system...

damn.

Posted by RCG Trader on 11-21-11 02:27 AM:

Quote from MarketMasher:

And I wasted all that time creating a junk system...

damn.

Hey, it happens.

Posted by SK0 on 11-21-11 03:45 AM:

Hey, it happens.

Why waste your time with them?

As long as they don't spend quality time to annotate, MADA, and think CRITICALLY on the concepts posted by Jack, they will forever have no idea how to get out of their own trap.

Posted by RCG Trader on 11-21-11 03:50 AM:

Quote from SK0:

Why waste your time with them?

As long as they don't spend quality time to annotate, MADA, and think CRITICALLY on the concepts posted by Jack, they will forever have no idea how to get out of their own trap.

Because I have learned over the years that JH threads have ENORMOUS amounts of lurkers. So while I am aware the MM is just being sarcastic, there are some people who are not posting who are very interested in what JH vets have to say.

So, I respond seriously to the most ridiculous of requests, make sure to place that insane Aussie on ignore instantly, and move on with the discussion.

Posted by nkhoi on 11-21-11 02:54 PM:

Einsten's definition of insanity was doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

agree

Under that criteria and considering after so many years you have still had not made money with Jack's 'method' I think you may be a victim of psychological projection.

don't know who is 'you'? you need to find a diff 'you'.

Of course feel free to prove me wrong.. no Hershey follower ever has but maybe you are more skilled with Paintshop than they were.

there is zero need to 'prove', each and every reader is responsible to do one own testing.

Or maybe it's just easier to put the people who ask the hard questions on ignore [/B]

no your questions are not hard at all. after thousands of pages and multiple years of discussing, these questions have been asked and answered multiple of times. I am not going to bother with links anymore, been there done that.

Posted by R. Raskolnikov on 11-21-11 03:16 PM:

Does this include creating hundreds of aliases, saying the same shit over and over again, and then getting banned each and every time?

Einsten's definition of insanity was doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Posted by R. Raskolnikov on 11-21-11 03:42 PM:

How could you save anyone? Like I said, you do the same thing over and over again and each time all your posts are removed and your alias banned. You're not reaching anyone, you're just living out the definition of insanity :0

Yes as does PM'ing me all the time.. but if I save just one sad deluded soul such as yourself Ras it's all worth it ;)

Posted by RCG Trader on 11-21-11 03:58 PM:

How could you save anyone? Like I said, you do the same thing over and over again and each time all your posts are removed and your alias banned. You're not reaching anyone, you're just living out the definition of insanity :0

If you see em' zap em'. Ignore on sight. Do not hesitate.

Posted by nkhoi on 11-21-11 05:37 PM:

...it's at least 10 years of your life so far man.. you gotta know when to turn away from something that doesn't work.

looking forward to 20th anniversary of an identical discussion.

Posted by jack hershey on 11-21-11 09:58 PM:

Quote from MarketMasher:

I tried on some recent data but my curve doesn't look right.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/97/try01.png/

Shouldn't the curve go parabolic and then stay vertical?

Can you post your successful implementation so I can see?

Start slowly.

Use the one pager for PVT.

It takes about 15 minutes to run a year long test.

To exactly duplicate a past test by Worden Bros staff at TradersExpo, use their drag and drop (Bloxs) to get the logic. Then use a Universe that is available to you like a performance level Universe. Worden used the NAZ 100. They repeated the test since the results exceeded any test they had ever run. They calc'ed the usual stats as well. Sharpe was over 60.

Anyone can use the rules and a Universe. Notice the rules are on the one pager and the criteria for the Universe is stated in the thread that posted trades in advance and then the results for over a year in ET.

Also you can duplicate the failure Trader666 did. He screwed up in several ways as I noted in my critique of his testing failure. Also or even, his test had no statisitical significance it turned out. I do not think he knew this nor does anyone else who posts his faulty chart.

I have invented several trading applications of various paradigms. With regard to all the the above, blowinsky has not done any work so related.

He has examined only the first (beginner level of an approach coded as Cash Cow where I presented some of the intial logic. subsequent levels of Cash Cow were not made public. They are documenteed in a combo of text, charts, logic flow sheets and Excel logic flow sheets. Blowinsky has seen none of this work.

The Cash Cow was an exercise that we enjoyed doing and it was done to simply create an ATS that used indicators as inputs. All the indicators were customized by using synchronistic defaults for the fractals traded. In Wikipedia I was creditied with revising the MACD and other indicators to the modern world of the PC. Pring, for example, adopted them four years later.

For humor and character assassination reflection, there once appeared on ET a system that didn't work. It had the out of date MACD and used the wrong signal generation. Also the MACD was offset in time artificially. I made a serious mistake in relating to its creator in order to offer suggestions. The person never recovered from what he assigned as the weight of my suggestions (which he deemed criticisms for his own reasons (youth, ignorance, etc, etc...)). I did not make public my suggestions since I felt they might be misinterpreted. Indeed they were.

So in summary, you are not going to be sucessful in trading or creating ATS of various market trading approaches. You will also be unable to create tooling in the form of snippets that increase the degrees of freedom for market analysis. The reason for this limitation(s) you have permanently incurred, have to do with the beliefs you have decided, irreversably, to adopt. Such adoptions have occurred sans reasoning through their potential damaging consequences.

There are two aspects of the mind involved here. One is that the mind does not have an "eraser" function. The second, is that the mind ignores the negative in communicated information.

Walk carefully on the ice gives you one picture.

Don't fall down on the ice gives you another picture.

For trading, your beliefs cannot work to form rational systems of though any longer. Too bad for you.

A lot of this thread deals with Q and A an SCT, an application of PEP. Seamless Continuous Trading replaces the CW mind orientation of the financial industry. Related to markets, what I have designed and have as system is like a foreign language to CW financial industry followers. therefore, it is not likely nor probably possible for a person who has no mind development or mind building from doing work in SCT or PEP to be able to understand anything I espouse.

Covel is a prize example of this impenatrable wall he encountered as a consequence of his faulty belief system. Many people attribute my building the walls. What, in fact, is true is that the walls are carried by those who fail to process my communications. Thus, I get a benefit, that is unearned or at least not costly.

It can be very costly to a person whose mind has been closed for that person to pursue learning about anything he is no longer capable of entertaining.

The standard for accomplishment is the market's offer. All things are measured against this performance level. The term "unbelievable" is one that is used by people who use their personal standard instead of the market's standard. So those people have simply built an artificial and permanent barrier that keeps them out of the potential place of learning how to trade by learning how markets work. You are one of those people who is denied the opportunity to walk through the open door.

Posted by MarketMasher on 11-21-11 10:18 PM:

Quote from jack hershey:

Start slowly.

Use the one pager for PVT.

It takes about 15 minutes to run a year long test.

To exactly duplicate a past test by Worden Bros staff at TradersExpo, use their drag and drop (Bloxs) to get the logic. Then use a Universe that is available to you like a performance level Universe. Worden used the NAZ 100. They repeated the test since the results exceeded any test they had ever run. They calc'ed the usual stats as well. Sharpe was over 60.

Anyone can use the rules and a Universe. Notice the rules are on the one pager and the criteria for the Universe is stated in the thread that posted trades in advance and then the results for over a year in ET.

Also you can duplicate the failure Trader666 did. He screwed up in several ways as I noted in my critique of his testing failure. Also or even, his test had no statisitical significance it turned out. I do not think he knew this nor does anyone else who posts his faulty chart.

I have invented several trading applications of various paradigms. With regard to all the the above, blowinsky has not done any work so related.

He has examined only the first (beginner level of an approach coded as Cash Cow where I presented some of the intial logic. subsequent levels of Cash Cow were not made public. They are documenteed in a combo of text, charts, logic flow sheets and Excel logic flow sheets. Blowinsky has seen none of this work.

The Cash Cow was an exercise that we enjoyed doing and it was done to simply create an ATS that used indicators as inputs. All the indicators were customized by using synchronistic defaults for the fractals traded. In Wikipedia I was creditied with revising the MACD and other indicators to the modern world of the PC. Pring, for example, adopted them four years later.

For humor and character assassination reflection, there once appeared on ET a system that didn't work. It had the out of date MACD and used the wrong signal generation. Also the MACD was offset in time artificially. I made a serious mistake in relating to its creator in order to offer suggestions. The person never recovered from what he assigned as the weight of my suggestions (which he deemed criticisms for his own reasons (youth, ignorance, etc, etc...)). I did not make public my suggestions since I felt they might be misinterpreted. Indeed they were.

So in summary, you are not going to be sucessful in trading or creating ATS of various market trading approaches. You will also be unable to create tooling in the form of snippets that increase the degrees of freedom for market analysis. The reason for this limitation(s) you have permanently incurred, have to do with the beliefs you have decided, irreversably, to adopt. Such adoptions have occurred sans reasoning through their potential damaging consequences.

There are two aspects of the mind involved here. One is that the mind does not have an "eraser" function. The second, is that the mind ignores the negative in communicated information.

Walk carefully on the ice gives you one picture.

Don't fall down on the ice gives you another picture.

For trading, your beliefs cannot work to form rational systems of though any longer. Too bad for you.

A lot of this thread deals with Q and A an SCT, an application of PEP. Seamless Continuous Trading replaces the CW mind orientation of the financial industry. Related to markets, what I have designed and have as system is like a foreign language to CW financial industry followers. therefore, it is not likely nor probably possible for a person who has no mind development or mind building from doing work in SCT or PEP to be able to understand anything I espouse.

Covel is a prize example of this impenatrable wall he encountered as a consequence of his faulty belief system. Many people attribute my building the walls. What, in fact, is true is that the walls are carried by those who fail to process my communications. Thus, I get a benefit, that is unearned or at least not costly.

It can be very costly to a person whose mind has been closed for that person to pursue learning about anything he is no longer capable of entertaining.

The standard for accomplishment is the market's offer. All things are measured against this performance level. The term "unbelievable" is one that is used by people who use their personal standard instead of the market's standard. So those people have simply built an artificial and permanent barrier that keeps them out of the potential place of learning how to trade by learning how markets work. You are one of those people who is denied the opportunity to walk through the open door.

I actually understood your comments, and I did not detect any passive-aggression.

So for taking time to articulate your thoughts, thank you.

I would say that I do try to keep an open mind - though as Janet Tavakoli once said - "Not so open that your brains fall out."

Posted by R. Raskolnikov on 11-21-11 11:14 PM:

Ha, I like this quote

Quote from MarketMasher:

I would say that I do try to keep an open mind - though as Janet Tavakoli once said - "Not so open that your brains fall out."

Posted by TIKITRADER on 11-22-11 01:26 AM:

Still like the version outsource annotated previously

Posted by MarketMasher on 11-22-11 02:00 AM:

Still like the version outsource annotated previously

One of the things that is interesting is if you add little fun acronyms to make things clearer in your mind you can remember them better

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/824/dgsu.png/

Posted by TIKITRADER on 11-22-11 02:19 AM:

Quote from MarketMasher:

One of the things that is interesting is if you add little fun acronyms to make things clearer in your mind you can remember them better

Art , is this you ??? Looks like your style

Posted by Trader666 on 11-22-11 02:29 AM:

Quote from jack hershey:

Also you can duplicate the failure Trader666 did. He screwed up in several ways as I noted in my critique of his testing failure. Also or even, his test had no statisitical significance it turned out. I do not think he knew this nor does anyone else who posts his faulty chart.

Posted by MarketMasher on 11-22-11 02:29 AM:

Art , is this you ??? Looks like your style

Garfunkel?

I'm afraid I will have to give you The Sounds of Silence...........

Posted by DB_sezwhat on 11-22-11 11:55 PM:

Quote from DB_sezwhat:

I'm not sure, but I think Sierra Charts does it the best. rainman2(great guy ) made it available to all.

Continuing the series, here's a YM chart(which Lucrum knows is a leading indicator of ES) showing accumulation on its channeled fractal. The question becomes, "when does non-dominance become dominant?" This is a great example of showing before the fact What Must Come Next !

Posted by baro-san on 11-23-11 12:09 AM:

That is not a de-gapped chart, isn't it?

Posted by ammo on 11-23-11 12:18 AM:

Quote from DB_sezwhat:

Continuing the series, here's a YM chart(which Lucrum knows is a leading indicator of ES) showing accumulation on its channeled fractal. The question becomes, "when does non-dominance become dominant?" This is a great example of showing before the fact What Must Come Next !

whats on the bottom of your chart

Posted by nkhoi on 11-23-11 12:46 AM:

Quote from ammo:

whats on the bottom of your chart

cumulative delta volume

Posted by pepdegree on 11-23-11 03:43 AM:

Posted by pepdegree on 11-23-11 08:18 AM:

Jack,I want some kind of a "+","-" indicator.Such as on my iPhone's volume,you know.You know.

Posted by PointOne on 11-23-11 11:31 AM:

Quote from pepdegree:

Jack,I want some kind of a "+","-" indicator.Such as on my iPhone's volume,you know.You know.

B+R-
and
R+B-

There you go.

Posted by jack hershey on 11-23-11 07:52 PM:

Quote from pepdegree:

Jack,I want some kind of a "+","-" indicator.Such as on my iPhone's volume,you know.You know.

The Stretch/Squeeze is really simple (color coded) and leads by quite a bit since it is tracking smart money. It also works off the Premium (or equivalent) so it is tightly configured in the CW setting.

My view is that the trader's goal is to have a fully differentiated mind. I regard it as the greatest tooling "reading" the market continually.

As I said, I learned so long ago that I feel like I am a tape reading robo who just has a very modern and complete data feed and display system.

your mind can deliver a very neat + - system to you. The market is so huge it doesn't do anything "suddenly or not knowable in advance (not predicting).

Posted by pepdegree on 11-24-11 01:12 AM:

Quote from jack hershey:

My view is that the trader's goal is to have a fully differentiated mind. I regard it as the greatest tooling "reading" the market

What is the key in getting fully differentiated mind?It's not that easy to do.

Posted by jack hershey on 11-24-11 06:09 PM:

Quote from pepdegree:

What is the key in getting fully differentiated mind? It's not that easy to do.

My sample of people is over 10,000, I would guess.

By watching and listening to this non stratified random sample, I would say three things are involved:

1. Knowing how learning works.

2. Knowing how the mind works.

3. And knowing the sequence of drills to build the mind.

Sub sets of this endeavor include:

1. Understanding your heritage and character.

2. Being trained in Science.

3. Knowing how to build walls around inference that is associated with any myths or false beliefs. The mind cannot erase without supreme difficulty. Examine this erasing process and appreciate that building the walls is a more satisfactory process.

Also there are some pragmatic considerations.

1. Self teaching has major pitfall: it is very difficult to always manage the process of proving to yourself that you are learning correctly. When you learn a concept incorrectly, then you mind cannot subconsciously reorganize your knowledge and skills as you sleep.

2. At some point you can recognize that your mind is sufacing questions consciously for you to get answers to so you can "fill in" weaker spots in the spectrum of your differentiation.

3. It is always wise to listen to and evaluate the systems you observe in others growth and differentiating processes. This keeps you on the main trunk of the tree and you can determine when a person is going out on a limb that is going to break and when he will fall off and end the process.

Notice there is another thread on the supposed "evolution" of systems. What has eliminated the growth process on that thread?

The whole basis of differentiating the mind (building a mental ATS) is the partnership of the trader and the market. Read the partnership contract frequently. Neither partner is allowed to do the other's role and eahc partner must contribute his full services.

The result of the partnership is that each knows he knows all the time.

Granularity creates the ability to know ahead of the present.

Over the last 53 years I have ststed the details of everything mentioned in this post. I collected the commentary and put it into five outlines as file folders. then I began dictating the essential aspects as a way to cull and edit all of my responses to the questions of others. I organized everthing in an order for larning and differentiating the mind. Technically, among those I work for, it is called "tranferring". I use four categories of documentation as everyone knows: Text, Market Charts, Logic diagrams and flow sheets, and Excel logic organization levels of logic snippets. It was a way of emptying my mind and making a record in electonic filing.

So all the snippets of trading functions are now on warious web sites and many many presentations are archived that show the aspects of PEP and its applications. I also reduced the applications to one pagers that can easily be coded and traded as ATS's if the person is skilled enough. Most aren't. Those that did it have performance data for their periods of operation.

So everything a person hs to do to become fully differentiated is available and in use.

PEP was deduced using the Scientific Method. The Pool Extraction Paradigm is a Hypothesis Set (HS) (taken from the early history of markets) The Parametric Measure (PM) is more novel and almost never used by any other practitioner, logian, or theorist.

I will explain specifically how to fast track to expect in one more post. This and the next post will make it possible for anyone to compare their viewpoint to my viewpoint in a very short time (minutes).

As redneck thinks, it is anyone's right; as I view it, it is anyone's priviledge. LOL.

Rights are exrcised by personal initiative.

Priviledges come about as a consequence of an externality. I provide that externality.

Posted by jack hershey on 11-24-11 07:44 PM:

How to differentiate the mind fully in the parametric system of the market's offering.

The hypotheses set forth the Vand P relationship over events. The parametric measures are four gerunds ('ing's). For a paradigm to work all Hypotheses must be "in kind".

Markets turn out to be cyclic; therefore two opposite trends determine a cycle. This announces the fractal nature of the markets and how fractal interlock. A parallelogram (or trapezoid) is the nonstationarity based container. Opposite sides are parallel.

The gerunds dictate the Parametric Measures as ratios of variables. I use a denominator of 1 which stands for one event. The numerators are for the IF'S and for the THEN's. Volume leads price.

HOW to build the mind is a process of creating long term memory for two sets that have a one to one corrspondence.

There is elasticity in the container and it is caused by two things: the units of measure of volume and price. Each one is a non continuous function.

This dictates the mathematics of the market operation. It is an algebra and the base is two. Thus, form the 1840's the mathematics became available. Boolean Algebra has many applications.

Use some ticks to make some bars. Use some instrument units to make some volume bars.

The first task is to ID all the identifiable constructs and combinations of these variables and to deduce the Hypothsis Set that comes from the relation of the two variables. In the language of Science and Mathematics, these are called Cases.

Your mind has to have these cases in long term memory. So discover them; prove they are the set; and arrange them in a continuum.

You have finite sets, and the elements are complete and the elements have an order of events and they form a simple container which cycles and which in terms of fractals are interlocking in a specific unchanging ratio.

This is knowledge and the amount of knowledge for a system is very small and very complete.

Before the PC and when the world began to use electricity, Market information was transmitted over wires and a series of events was made public to all that were equipped. When I canoed from Whitehorse to Dawson, I got to see the wires along the rivers and the battery operated relay stations along the way. I collected broken battery parts and tin cans as souveniers.

From the ticker tapes of the past, the HS and PM came about. Nothing has changed.

The HS and the Cases interrelate and complete the picture of building the mind. I call it "Putting the Pieces Together". This is how "tape reading" turns out to work.

All you do is use binary switches in the form of vectors to make money. There is no probability when it comes the the setting of a switch.

Two Cases of the market make money and all ther cases are squished to have the two cases that make m0oney. You have all the pieces and as they form you squish them into the "long" or the "short" case.

When a squishable case straddles a "right" boundary you decelerate the money velocity of the RTL by geometrically fanning the RTL. When the price exceds the LTL, you accelerate the boundary by redrawing the new steeper container.

So now you have your training encompassed and you use a display to show three interlocking levels of the market containers.

The schema for fully differentiating the mind, to read the market, is to drill on annotating a display which shows the cases as boxes. Fighting the battle to have displays show the cases is long over and was hard fought simply because perveyors were so simple minded. It was as difficult as have a two colored ribbon on a ticker tape. You can remember that that didn't happen except on typewriters.

What is it that slows this process of ganing inference in the mind?

1. Working in an ineffective way that lacks purpose.

2. Being prevented from doing anything because prior beliefs prevent it.

3. Fear that comes from the mind/body self protection system. See Lizard Syndrome.

4. A paralysis that comes from oxygen deprivation and CO 2 surpluses (Bohr Syndrome).

5. Having an orientation to making money following the CW.

6. Using the CW tools to examine the market.

What are the simplest small things that can help overcome the above?

1. Find out that two bars with HH's and HL's causes a long trend by price change.

2. Find out that two bars with LL's and LH's causes a short trend by price change.

3. Notice that volume peaks coincide with price extremes and that occasionally volume shows as leading price. (LTL's)

4.
Notice that volume troughs coincide with price retrace endings and that occasionally volume shows as leading price. (LTL's)

So with this approach underway and succeeeding, when does the mind create the ends of trends?

Also examine why Covel and those he writes about could not get any of this?

Look at the problems people who use PA only encounter. See if you can reason out how to help them and them how to let them accept being trained.

Lastly, look at how others judge trader peformance and find out how they got to use the term "unbelievable" in their vocabulary.

Posted by jack hershey on 11-24-11 09:05 PM:

This post finishes the partnership contract.

As time passes, the trader learns that the momey takes care of itself.

But it is a good idea to look at the two ingredients for making money.

A x B = C

Posted by jack hershey on 11-24-11 09:37 PM:

Quote from jack hershey:

This post finishes the partnership contract.

As time passes, the trader learns that the momey takes care of itself.

But it is a good idea to look at the two ingredients for making money.

A x B = C

I had to leave for a while and when I returned to complete the post the post had timed out, so it was lost.

Posted by baro-san on 11-24-11 10:02 PM:

Quote from jack hershey:

This post finishes the partnership contract.

As time passes, the trader learns that the momey takes care of itself.

But it is a good idea to look at the two ingredients for making money.

A x B = C

A = skill
B = confidence
C = success

Posted by jack hershey on 11-24-11 10:09 PM:

Quote from jack hershey:

I had to leave for a while and when I returned to complete the post the post had timed out, so it was lost.

A is compounding

B is applying the differentiated mind.

Their product, C, is the wealth you build.

Inital capital cannot be anything but smallest. for commodities it is 1 contract. For other intruments it is one round lot applied to four streams of capital. Cpompounding the profits is the most powerful tool.

To make 60K a year you earn 5,000 a month which is 250 dollars a day.

Divide the 1 contract point value into 250 and you see this is a portion of the ATR.

To see what is possible then use 3x to 6x the ATR to get the annual income with one contract.

For a no slippage partial fill regime use 250 contracts to do calculations on compounding.

What slows compounding down is giving money to others for problem solving. there is no limit to this opportunity.

the objective is to move from one intial contract to 250 contracts.

Component B is how you get to a multiple of ATR by beginning with a fraction of ATR.

Lets look at both sides of the coin for component B.

0perating effectively and efficiently has requirements.

When you discover the the identiy of a trend end and a trend beginning, you are in the final stretch of becoming expert. This is the Failure To Traverse (FTT) from right to left.

By then you know when H1 and H2 are used and you know dominant and non dominant moves.

You know that a cycle is two moves and a tend is three moves and you KNOW they are on different adjacent fractals.

You are very far away from using rule sets to trade; you use your mind to read the market instead by incorporating nonstationarity windows, OOE, WMCN and WWT.

At some point, you change from FTT to FTT trading to point to point trading.

You complete the transition from 1 contract to 250 contracts.

Your bootcamp days were just like in the military. your weapon is the fully differentiated mind and ammo is in the form of FTT's and then annotated points.

You team with the market and do your part and not the market's part. you have MADA and NOT OODA and betting.

Monitoring gives you an information set. It automatically, one-on-one matches with the analysis finite set. You decide to hold or reverse. You take timely action to carve the turns.

The non secret ingredient is the time you have to log each and every event in the passing of RTH's.

It takes about 5 or 6 rows perbar of logging. Note the countdown from 300 seconds to 0 seconds. All trades are within bars. Each column has a glossary which is defined in binary terms. The binary terms are vectors in terms of the RTL and LTL.

There is no probability and certainty in its place, no noise and precition to the tick in its place and no anomalies (all it orderly and interlocking).

Posted by jack hershey on 11-24-11 10:17 PM:

Quote from baro-san:

A = skill
B = confidence
C = success

I agree.

the CW feelings are absent (fear, anxiety and anger (as measured by academia testing big money); instead the feelings are support, comfort and confidence.

Stay on the main trunk of the tree as you learn to get to the top where expertise lives.

This is a finite deal and only on/off switches are used.

All cases squish to the long or short case. the OOE leads you to the FTT, point by point. Decelerating or accelerating only occur after point 3 on the way to FTT. All fractals areinterlocking in a ratiio of 3:1.

The mind is so supreme and capable. You deduce your way there doing drills in a logical order your mind tells you to do. Induction is not used in Science, ever.

QED.

Posted by pepdegree on 11-24-11 11:20 PM:

Jack,I do feel sometimes lack of CO2,when I trade or read something,or concentrate on something.Why is that so?

Posted by jack hershey on 11-24-11 11:37 PM:

Quote from pepdegree:

Jack,I do feel sometimes lack of CO2,when I trade or read something,or concentrate on something.Why is that so?

You are lucky .... it usually goes the other way>>>> a lack of O 2 and too much resident CO 2.

I have to have a monitor as I sleep.

I stop breathing for over three minutes abou 20 times a night. If I do not get this corrected, I will not retart breathing at some point.

Artifically my combo of additional oxygen and pressurization keeps building the pressure until my brain reacts by ovedrcoming lack of remote memory sensing.

There is some really neat plumbing involved and a complex sleeping mask.

The top pressure has to be set below the maximum exhale pressure I can generate thrpough muscular effort.

It is a tight rope where the collected data card is periodically checked to refine the bi-level computer controls.

The reports by A. Lo et al really reveal some interesting data on how fearful big money is when it is performing at the CW level of performance.

It is almost s bad as Demi and the crew determined in the Movie "Margin Call".

It is especially fun to witness big money trading commodities in Chicago (or elsewhere) in real time. They never consider being effective nor efficient; it seems they think they are concentrating on "being right" or something similarly irrational. Those who do not use CW based trading are really very fortunate.

It will be fun in the future when web sites begin to appear and people can share their techniques in real time.

Posted by pepdegree on 11-24-11 11:57 PM:

Quote from jack hershey:

It is especially fun to witness big money trading commodities in Chicago (or elsewhere) in real time. They never consider being effective nor efficient; it seems they think they are concentrating on "being right" or something similarly irrational.

Haha...

They even have their own commentators on what is going on there

Posted by pepdegree on 11-25-11 12:03 AM:

There should be related subject in trading regarding breathing technic,as it is very important.

Posted by TIKITRADER on 11-25-11 12:40 PM:

Quote from jack hershey:

It will be fun in the future when web sites begin to appear and people can share their techniques in real time.

Here you go.... The sharing can begin now

Break out the crayolas and start, everyone can jump in

Thanks Multicharts

Posted by pepdegree on 11-26-11 10:41 AM:

Jasck, you either have to cease your time by the computer,or start to drink the wine,the new wine dying on the vine.;)

Posted by pepdegree on 11-26-11 11:02 AM:

Here you go.... The sharing can begin now

Break out the crayolas and start, everyone can jump in

Thanks Multicharts

Ticki,what the fleck is this??If u go fag,I'm gonna kill you!!!

Posted by TIKITRADER on 11-26-11 01:26 PM:

lol .... i always wanted to be in crayola 101
wonder if there is going to be any hot girls in this class ?

Posted by bwolinsky on 11-26-11 07:08 PM:

Quote from ammo:

as usual,another thread trashed by bashers for the last several pages,do you guys add anything ,is the world already bad enough...bitching and moaning ..endlessly

Uh, no, re-read what I've said. That's not a bash. It's a valid criticism and...

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by RCG Trader on 11-27-11 02:33 PM:

Im shocked that no one tried to ding Jack on the 3x daily range again.

Look, Jack teaches one how to read the market in layers, but to really enjoy the cake, each layer has to be built upon.

Some will say, JH should own the world. Let me tell you that a point comes when there is no point. When you can make money anytime you want, the scarcity of money goes away, and so does the desire hoard it.

Most will not get what I just posted, but a few will. To those few, pay it forward.

Posted by R. Raskolnikov on 11-27-11 03:44 PM:

Well said

When you can make money anytime you want, the scarcity of money goes away, and so does the desire hoard it.

Posted by RCG Trader on 11-28-11 03:10 PM:

Well said

In the beginning I did not understand why Jack was not a gazillionaire either. My signal generator is based very heavily on the concepts that Jack has laid out. I realized that 3 x ATR is in fact based on compounding contracts with each successful swing you catch, as one goes from beginner to intermediate to expert you can catch swings within swings. When you realize that having a big bank account is just a way to "keep score", it only makes sense to take only what is needed to help self and others close to you. I am in the process of doing that now. At first I said I would stop when got to this many million dollars, now, when I reach the goal of helping those who love me become debt free I will feel no need to trade unless I want to go on a trip or something. My first thing is to take care of the car of a friend of mine and then work from there. The anger some have towards Jack is that they cannot break that barrier that keeps them making their own dreams and the dreams of others come true. Why else would they attack someone who sells nothing? Why would they be so violent in those attacks? They say it is to save the newbies, but I don't recall any newbie I know asking to be saved. Strange stuff my friend, very strange stuff.

Posted by R. Raskolnikov on 11-28-11 04:44 PM:

There are a lot of weird people in this world, and apparently some of them are very angry too

Why else would they attack someone who sells nothing? Why would they be so violent in those attacks? They say it is to save the newbies, but I don't recall any newbie I know asking to be saved. Strange stuff my friend, very strange stuff.

Posted by R. Raskolnikov on 11-28-11 05:14 PM:

I did that ages ago, WAY before I ever heard of Hershey. But thank you for your concern. I have noted it and added it to my files.

--------END COMMUNICATION------------

Quote from mindovermutter:

if you'd expended half the energy designing your own methodology

Posted by asynchronous on 11-28-11 05:52 PM:

Decipering Jack Hershey

About two years ago I asked Jack a simple question and received a very cryptic response. It took me a while to understand what he was trying to convey - I call the system Canoe (you will figure this out if you look at prior post).

The outcome was surprising, the system has been running untouched for the past 7 quarters (trading the e-mini S&P) and has shown a profit every quarter (past performance is no indication of future results - in other words I am still waiting for the system to fail - frankly it would be nice to have a failure - at least a small one)

The return is lower then I expect, but 60% annualized net (all fees) is not shabby (actually the return is a higher - but this appears to be what its is averaging out at (sure as hell, as soon as I post this reply the system will go south on me))

Jack has claimed that he can make \$150k per contract per year - I find this extremely unlikely - the best I have achieved (play money) is \$90K (all fees) - I am shooting for less however \$20k per year per contract.

,...G

Posted by asynchronous on 11-28-11 06:07 PM:

Jack

@mindovermutter

Not Lying - but believe what you want.

Posted by pepdegree on 11-28-11 06:18 PM:

" I realized that 3 x ATR is in fact based on compounding contracts with each successful swing you catch.."

What kind of bull caca is that

3-6ÀTR has nothing to do with compounding.3-6 daily ATR is 3-6 daily ATR because is just 36 daily ATR

Posted by asynchronous on 11-28-11 06:39 PM:

Jack

@mindovermutter

Truthfully 'Mind Over Mutter' - I don't think Jack actually has a system. I don't believe that anyone that has attempted to follow Jack's methodology (what ever it may be) has or ever will profit.

What I was able to distill from Jacks postings has nothing to do with his system (???) - it has everything to do with how to look at and interpret the market - something that Jack seems to get (his use of fractals is intriguing).

I use a simple Price Equilibrium Curve (Simple Moving Average) to anticipate price fluctuations around the curve - and I also have to decipher an inordinate amount of real time trade data.

I have two models - one completely automated (the 60% return model) and a semi automated (discretionary) system that I use for scalping (200% return model)

As far as the details of my system - I seriously doubt it would do you or anyone else here any good - simply because it would be difficult for anyone to replicate unless you had the same desktop trading app that I have.

As far as Jack's disciples - Good Luck!

,...G

Posted by innersky on 11-28-11 06:54 PM:

mindovermutter, who are you in the family pic? The left one?

Quote from mindovermutter:

Posted by Albert Cibiades on 11-28-11 08:18 PM:

Quote from jack hershey:

A is compounding

B is applying the differentiated mind.

Their product, C, is the wealth you build.

Inital capital cannot be anything but smallest. for commodities it is 1 contract. For other intruments it is one round lot applied to four streams of capital. Cpompounding the profits is the most powerful tool.

To make 60K a year you earn 5,000 a month which is 250 dollars a day.

Divide the 1 contract point value into 250 and you see this is a portion of the ATR.

To see what is possible then use 3x to 6x the ATR to get the annual income with one contract.

For a no slippage partial fill regime use 250 contracts to do calculations on compounding.

What slows compounding down is giving money to others for problem solving. there is no limit to this opportunity.

the objective is to move from one intial contract to 250 contracts.

Component B is how you get to a multiple of ATR by beginning with a fraction of ATR.

Lets look at both sides of the coin for component B.

0perating effectively and efficiently has requirements.

When you discover the the identiy of a trend end and a trend beginning, you are in the final stretch of becoming expert. This is the Failure To Traverse (FTT) from right to left.

By then you know when H1 and H2 are used and you know dominant and non dominant moves.

You know that a cycle is two moves and a tend is three moves and you KNOW they are on different adjacent fractals.

You are very far away from using rule sets to trade; you use your mind to read the market instead by incorporating nonstationarity windows, OOE, WMCN and WWT.

At some point, you change from FTT to FTT trading to point to point trading.

You complete the transition from 1 contract to 250 contracts.

Your bootcamp days were just like in the military. your weapon is the fully differentiated mind and ammo is in the form of FTT's and then annotated points.

You team with the market and do your part and not the market's part. you have MADA and NOT OODA and betting.

Monitoring gives you an information set. It automatically, one-on-one matches with the analysis finite set. You decide to hold or reverse. You take timely action to carve the turns.

The non secret ingredient is the time you have to log each and every event in the passing of RTH's.

It takes about 5 or 6 rows perbar of logging. Note the countdown from 300 seconds to 0 seconds. All trades are within bars. Each column has a glossary which is defined in binary terms. The binary terms are vectors in terms of the RTL and LTL.

There is no probability and certainty in its place, no noise and precition to the tick in its place and no anomalies (all it orderly and interlocking).

This kind of discourse about trading does the neophyte trader a huge disservice. The time a neophyte might take to try to understand the quoted passage is time that he fails to devote to finding his own way. Trading is a very personal endeavor. No one can tell you how you should trade. You must find your unique way on your own. Once you find that way, it is so simple that you can write it down on the sticky side of a postage stamp. Complex strategies like that quoted indicate either some sinister ulterior motive or a fatal lack of understanding of trading reality.

Posted by baro-san on 11-28-11 09:10 PM:

Nobody can demonstrate that Hershey's method doesn't work. They just show they can't get it.

Posted by Lucrum on 11-28-11 09:18 PM:

This kind of discourse about trading does the neophyte trader a huge disservice. The time a neophyte might take to try to understand the quoted passage is time that he fails to devote to finding his own way. Trading is a very personal endeavor. No one can tell you how you should trade. You must find your unique way on your own. Once you find that way, it is so simple that you can write it down on the sticky side of a postage stamp. Complex strategies like that quoted indicate either some sinister ulterior motive or a fatal lack of understanding of trading reality.

Well stated.

Posted by RCG Trader on 11-28-11 10:36 PM:

Quote from baro-san:

Nobody can demonstrate that Hershey's method doesn't work. They just show they can't get it.

Jack writes in a way that requires more than an 8th grade reading level, which is where most Americans read at. So his posts have a sort of self selecting nature about them.

People do not like to feel stupid, so they lash out at Jack.

Posted by RCG Trader on 11-28-11 10:39 PM:

Quote from GordonTheGekko:

Some detail posts from someone whose been on the board supposedly for less than four weeks?

That nutbird has been on this board for years, and he has OCD, at the very minimum. I simply ignore him on sight. He has nearly 100 aliases that I personally have banned before the mods catch up with him.

Readers of JH are all over the web, and it is widely understood that the lazy do not get the time of day, which frustrates a lot of folks.

Posted by Albert Cibiades on 11-28-11 10:46 PM:

Jack writes in a way that requires more than an 8th grade reading level, which is where most Americans read at. So his posts have a sort of self selecting nature about them.

People do not like to feel stupid, so they lash out at Jack.

That is not the issue. The issue is that writing about trading doesn't require more than an eighth grade reading level. Nonsense cloaked in lofty language is still nonsense.

Posted by Mushroom on 11-28-11 10:47 PM:

Has Jack or anybody else done an updated version of the chart that shows volume distribution during a day and volatility related to volume based on recent data?

Posted by Mushroom on 11-28-11 10:50 PM:

I mean this one:

Posted by RCG Trader on 11-28-11 10:51 PM:

That is not the issue. The issue is that writing about trading doesn't require more than an eighth grade reading level. Nonsense cloaked in lofty language is still nonsense.

Can you prove that this is nonsense?

Perhaps this is an opinion of yours, no?

Posted by RCG Trader on 11-28-11 10:53 PM:

Quote from Mushroom:

Has Jack or anybody else done an updated version of the chart that shows volume distribution during a day and volatility related to volume based on recent data?

Over at TL, Spyder posted that this chart is based on a 20 day volume analysis of the ES, which is then divided by ten. I view it as more of a guideline than something hard set.

Posted by Mushroom on 11-28-11 11:07 PM:

Over at TL, Spyder posted that this chart is based on a 20 day volume analysis of the ES, which is then divided by ten. I view it as more of a guideline than something hard set.

I'm just curious to compare the distribution now with that chart from a period with less volume, nothing of great importance, I guess the distr should follow a similar pattern.

Posted by DB_sezwhat on 11-28-11 11:15 PM:

Quote from Mushroom:

Has Jack or anybody else done an updated version of the chart that shows volume distribution during a day and volatility related to volume based on recent data?

Posted by Mushroom on 11-28-11 11:21 PM:

Quote from DB_sezwhat:

Thanks!

Posted by Lucrum on 11-28-11 11:54 PM:

...Nonsense cloaked in lofty language is still nonsense.

Bulls EYE!

Posted by Albert Cibiades on 11-29-11 12:42 AM:

Can you prove that this is nonsense?

Perhaps this is an opinion of yours, no?

Pick a clearcut unequivocal quantitative statement by Jack that you believe to be true, and I will be happy to oblige. It will be harder for you to find such than for me to demolish it.

Posted by RCG Trader on 11-29-11 12:48 AM:

Pick a clearcut unequivocal quantitative statement by Jack that you believe to be true, and I will be happy to oblige. It will be harder for you to find such than for me to demolish it.

Demolish this for me.

Posted by DB_sezwhat on 11-29-11 01:30 AM:

Pick a clearcut unequivocal quantitative statement by Jack that you believe to be true, and I will be happy to oblige. It will be harder for you to find such than for me to demolish it.

Quote from DB_sezwhat:

I'm not sure, but I think Sierra Charts does it the best. rainman2(great guy ) made it available to all.

Quote from jack hershey:

If the volume is peaking at less than the max volume from pt.1 to pt.2 and the volume difference going from the minimum trough at pt.3, then the trading fractal has also completed its pattern concurrently with the nested faster fractal.

Whats so difficult to understand?

Posted by Albert Cibiades on 11-29-11 01:38 AM:

Demolish this for me.

Gladly. First of all, that is not a complete statement of Jack's PV theory, and I do mean theory. It is an optical delusion attendant to the selection of a chart period of five minutes, and resultant from the blurring therein. The truth is abundantly clear on shorter time scales such as one second or tick. Volume responds to price changes. "Let him who has eyes to see, see."

Posted by Albert Cibiades on 11-29-11 01:44 AM:

Quote from DB_sezwhat:

Whats so difficult to understand?

"If the volume is peaking at less than the max volume from pt.1 to pt.2 and the volume difference going from the minimum trough at pt.3, then the trading fractal has also completed its pattern concurrently with the nested faster fractal."

Thius is a typical Jack totally qualitative statement which has no practical use. What determines "pt.1?" How much is "less than?" What is "max?" The assertion is grammatically sound, but not convertible to a trade decision in practice.

Posted by RCG Trader on 11-29-11 01:47 AM:

Gladly. First of all, that is not a complete statement of Jack's PV theory, and I do mean theory. It is an optical delusion attendant to the selection of a chart period of five minutes, and resultant from the blurring therein. The truth is abundantly clear on shorter time scales such as one second or tick. Volume responds to price changes. "Let him who has eyes to see, see."

It is the linchpin of the process, and I asked to disprove that. You said you could. Post some charts, give some stats.....something

You responded with more opinion, which is okay, everyone has one, as they say.

Volume leads price. "He who has ears to hear, let him hear."

R2R and B2B my friend. Volume leads price.

Posted by baro-san on 11-29-11 01:57 AM:

... Thus is a typical Jack totally qualitative statement which has no practical use. What determines "pt.1?" How much is "less than?" What is "max?" The assertion is grammatically sound, but not convertible to a trade decision in practice.

With all due respect: our conscious choices are determined and limited by our intellect.

Posted by DB_sezwhat on 11-29-11 01:59 AM:

Thius is a typical Jack totally qualitative statement which has no practical use. What determines "pt.1?" How much is "less than?" What is "max?" The assertion is grammatically sound, but not convertible to a trade decision in practice.

Wow!! You have a extremely weak thought process. Jack couldn't be more concise. Start here, only 5563 posts to go :

Posted by Wide Tailz on 11-29-11 02:06 AM:

Jack's method is pretty easy to figure out if you have a little experience and can get through the unnecessary complexity of his language.

It's basically band trading in a superposition of higher order bands (otherwise known as a fractal) with a lot of guessing based on volume, stochastics, and your own mood swingz.

Posted by Trend Following on 11-29-11 02:15 AM:

Quote from jack hershey:

How to differentiate the mind fully in the parametric system of the market's offering.

The hypotheses set forth the Vand P relationship over events. The parametric measures are four gerunds ('ing's). For a paradigm to work all Hypotheses must be "in kind".

Markets turn out to be cyclic; therefore two opposite trends determine a cycle. This announces the fractal nature of the markets and how fractal interlock. A parallelogram (or trapezoid) is the nonstationarity based container. Opposite sides are parallel.

The gerunds dictate the Parametric Measures as ratios of variables. I use a denominator of 1 which stands for one event. The numerators are for the IF'S and for the THEN's. Volume leads price.

HOW to build the mind is a process of creating long term memory for two sets that have a one to one corrspondence.

There is elasticity in the container and it is caused by two things: the units of measure of volume and price. Each one is a non continuous function.

This dictates the mathematics of the market operation. It is an algebra and the base is two. Thus, form the 1840's the mathematics became available. Boolean Algebra has many applications.

Use some ticks to make some bars. Use some instrument units to make some volume bars.

The first task is to ID all the identifiable constructs and combinations of these variables and to deduce the Hypothsis Set that comes from the relation of the two variables. In the language of Science and Mathematics, these are called Cases.

Your mind has to have these cases in long term memory. So discover them; prove they are the set; and arrange them in a continuum.

You have finite sets, and the elements are complete and the elements have an order of events and they form a simple container which cycles and which in terms of fractals are interlocking in a specific unchanging ratio.

This is knowledge and the amount of knowledge for a system is very small and very complete.

Before the PC and when the world began to use electricity, Market information was transmitted over wires and a series of events was made public to all that were equipped. When I canoed from Whitehorse to Dawson, I got to see the wires along the rivers and the battery operated relay stations along the way. I collected broken battery parts and tin cans as souveniers.

From the ticker tapes of the past, the HS and PM came about. Nothing has changed.

The HS and the Cases interrelate and complete the picture of building the mind. I call it "Putting the Pieces Together". This is how "tape reading" turns out to work.

All you do is use binary switches in the form of vectors to make money. There is no probability when it comes the the setting of a switch.

Two Cases of the market make money and all ther cases are squished to have the two cases that make m0oney. You have all the pieces and as they form you squish them into the "long" or the "short" case.

When a squishable case straddles a "right" boundary you decelerate the money velocity of the RTL by geometrically fanning the RTL. When the price exceds the LTL, you accelerate the boundary by redrawing the new steeper container.

So now you have your training encompassed and you use a display to show three interlocking levels of the market containers.

The schema for fully differentiating the mind, to read the market, is to drill on annotating a display which shows the cases as boxes. Fighting the battle to have displays show the cases is long over and was hard fought simply because perveyors were so simple minded. It was as difficult as have a two colored ribbon on a ticker tape. You can remember that that didn't happen except on typewriters.

What is it that slows this process of ganing inference in the mind?

1. Working in an ineffective way that lacks purpose.

2. Being prevented from doing anything because prior beliefs prevent it.

3. Fear that comes from the mind/body self protection system. See Lizard Syndrome.

4. A paralysis that comes from oxygen deprivation and CO 2 surpluses (Bohr Syndrome).

5. Having an orientation to making money following the CW.

6. Using the CW tools to examine the market.

What are the simplest small things that can help overcome the above?

1. Find out that two bars with HH's and HL's causes a long trend by price change.

2. Find out that two bars with LL's and LH's causes a short trend by price change.

3. Notice that volume peaks coincide with price extremes and that occasionally volume shows as leading price. (LTL's)

4. Notice that volume troughs coincide with price retrace endings and that occasionally volume shows as leading price. (LTL's)

So with this approach underway and succeeeding, when does the mind create the ends of trends?

Also examine why Covel and those he writes about could not get any of this?

When I started looking at trend following I had public track records of many different traders to examine. That was my start. You could easily analyze month by month audited track records often going back decades. I wasn't left to just trust the words of assorted traders, I could compare their words against track records. It was a great learning lesson.

Along those lines, can anyone provide one public track record that correlates with the gibberish Hershey spews? If we get past one, is there a second? Perhaps, that is a tad too direct. Excuse me if I don't demonstrate adequate Kool-aid drinking respect.

__________________
Covel Books: Trend Commandments, The Little Book of Trading, The Complete TurtleTrader & Trend Following

Posted by bwolinsky on 11-29-11 02:49 AM:

Quote from Trend Following:

When I started looking at trend following I had public track records of many different traders to examine. That was my start. You could easily analyze month by month audited track records often going back decades. I wasn't left to just trust the words of assorted traders, I could compare their words against track records. It was a great learning lesson.

Along those lines, can anyone provide one public track record that correlates with the gibberish Hershey spews? If we get past one, is there a second? Perhaps, that is a tad too direct. Excuse me if I don't demonstrate adequate Kool-aid drinking respect.

It is not too direct to ask.

There is no code here, meaning Hershey is having a crayola session now, and I expect the charts with lines to start appearing real soon. We might even get someone who will draw the entry at the perfect time when the market closes. That would be classic.

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by bwolinsky on 11-29-11 02:51 AM:

Gladly. First of all, that is not a complete statement of Jack's PV theory, and I do mean theory. It is an optical delusion attendant to the selection of a chart period of five minutes, and resultant from the blurring therein. The truth is abundantly clear on shorter time scales such as one second or tick. Volume responds to price changes. "Let him who has eyes to see, see."

This is utter gibberish! Just gibberish! Do you have the program?

I want to see your chart. Be sure you've marked your entries and please show me how the price is breaking below its pv.

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by RCG Trader on 11-29-11 02:56 AM:

Quote from Trend Following:

When I started looking at trend following I had public track records of many different traders to examine. That was my start. You could easily analyze month by month audited track records often going back decades. I wasn't left to just trust the words of assorted traders, I could compare their words against track records. It was a great learning lesson.

Along those lines, can anyone provide one public track record that correlates with the gibberish Hershey spews? If we get past one, is there a second? Perhaps, that is a tad too direct. Excuse me if I don't demonstrate adequate Kool-aid drinking respect.

People who get this stuff are too busy making money. Trading is the most lucrative business on the planet. People can, or can not, do it correctly. Individuals who can do it correctly will draw what they need out the market, at any time, over the course of a day if you work hard, a week if you work less hard, or a month if you are plain lazy.

I am plain lazy. I have nothing to prove to anyone, and the market pays for whatever desires I might or might not have. I will even go so far as to say that once you work out the true mechanics of the market then it is nigh impossible to blow up. I am speaking of FX in regards to blowing up, however.

Posted by RCG Trader on 11-29-11 02:59 AM:

Quote from baro-san:

With all due respect: our conscious choices are determined and limited by our intellect.

Well, if someone wants a solid method handed to them on a platter, Jack does do this, but he qualifies it by requiring the reader get a baseline education to be able to determine what he is saying.

W D Gann did this also. If you were not a Mason, pass Gann up, you will not be able to benefit.

Posted by bwolinsky on 11-29-11 04:11 AM:

Well, if someone wants a solid method handed to them on a platter, Jack does do this, but he qualifies it by requiring the reader get a baseline education to be able to determine what he is saying.

W D Gann did this also. If you were not a Mason, pass Gann up, you will not be able to benefit.

Um, like he handed it to Scottd?

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by baro-san on 11-29-11 05:59 AM:

Quote from mindovermutter:
...

Incredible dedication! You should look for a worthier cause.

Posted by TIKITRADER on 11-29-11 06:48 AM:

This guy automates channels and tapes based on JH in Excel.
If I remember he used to post to Jack here on ET

Posted by TIKITRADER on 11-29-11 08:31 AM:

It never makes it home with you but you have to take a peek for kicks.

Posted by d08 on 11-29-11 01:26 PM:

That is not the issue. The issue is that writing about trading doesn't require more than an eighth grade reading level. Nonsense cloaked in lofty language is still nonsense.

+1
That's actually the followers' escape route, "you're too stupid and lazy, you don't understand what kind of a genius he is". Naturally it's all too complicated to backtest, rules and more rules followed by exceptions and even more exceptions.
Genius lies in simplicity.

Posted by Lucrum on 11-29-11 02:01 PM:

Quote from d08:

+1
That's actually the followers' escape route, "you're too stupid and lazy, you don't understand what kind of a genius he is". Naturally it's all too complicated to backtest, rules and more rules followed by exceptions and even more exceptions.
Genius lies in simplicity.

+ 1

Posted by Albert Cibiades on 11-29-11 02:23 PM:

Quote from bwolinsky:

This is utter gibberish! Just gibberish! Do you have the program?

I want to see your chart. Be sure you've marked your entries and please show me how the price is breaking below its pv.

Let us not play Jack's game. Let us instead think. I am looking at a premarket one-second chart which is running strategies that work during the regular session. Often they also work premarket. Price is moving by several points on invisible volume. One contract this second, five contracts the next tick, all over the place, no volume pattern. The real question is not "what leads what?", but "is volume relevant at all?" If price can move on no volume, who gives a shit about volume? Similarly, volume can be huge with no price move, as in the last minutes before the close.

Posted by Mushroom on 11-29-11 02:35 PM:

Let us not play Jack's game. Let us instead think. I am looking at a premarket one-second chart which is running strategies that work during the regular session. Often they also work premarket. Price is moving by several points on invisible volume. One contract this second, five contracts the next tick, all over the place, no volume pattern. The real question is not "what leads what?", but "is volume relevant at all?" If price can move on no volume, who gives a shit about volume? Similarly, volume can be huge with no price move, as in the last minutes before the close.

So you look at a chart for a couple of seconds and the results of your deep analysing is that volume is useless?

I looked at a chart for a couple of seconds too, and I see that price sometimes moves in one direction, than it suddenly changes direction. Maybe price is useless too?

Posted by Paddler on 11-29-11 02:45 PM:

Quote from Mushroom:
So you look at a chart for a couple of seconds and the results of your deep analysing is that volume is useless?

I looked at a chart for a couple of seconds too, and I see that price sometimes moves in one direction, than it suddenly changes direction. Maybe price is useless too?

But... if you can put price and volume together and if you can see the immediate sentiment in the DOM, the market is like a King parading without his dress on.

Posted by Albert Cibiades on 11-29-11 02:53 PM:

Quote from Mushroom:

So you look at a chart for a couple of seconds and the results of your deep analysing is that volume is useless?

I looked at a chart for a couple of seconds too, and I see that price sometimes moves in one direction, than it suddenly changes direction. Maybe price is useless too?

I watch a one second chart all day. I know intimately how unrelated price and volume can be.

Posted by d08 on 11-29-11 02:55 PM:

Quote from Mushroom:

So you look at a chart for a couple of seconds and the results of your deep analysing is that volume is useless?

I looked at a chart for a couple of seconds too, and I see that price sometimes moves in one direction, than it suddenly changes direction. Maybe price is useless too?

I didn't see Jack post any statistics anywhere either, both are just expressing opinions. I've analyzed volume a lot and haven't found any significant evidence of it affecting direction.

Posted by Mushroom on 11-29-11 03:01 PM:

I watch a one second chart all day. I know intimately how unrelated price and volume can be.

If volatility was an exact expression of volume, then why should you look at volume? You could just look at a price.

Posted by Albert Cibiades on 11-29-11 03:12 PM:

Quote from Mushroom:

If volatility was an exact expression of volume, then why should you look at volume? You could just look at a price.

Good question. Because total volume conveys information about when to hazard taking a position and when not to. And large trades, no matter what the total volume, suggest possible inflection points.

Posted by Albert Cibiades on 11-29-11 03:21 PM:

Jack's fixation on volume simply proves that he doesn't understand price action. If he did, he wouldn't need to draw those cretinous channels, and would instead be teaching the faithful about support and resistance.

Posted by iceman1 on 11-29-11 03:29 PM:

Is it true Jack's a genius....??!!

__________________
Go Chicago Bulls

You can make it to the Hall of Fame getting base hits or home runs... but you gotta protect the plate!

Patient traders obtain better prices than impatient traders do because they are willing to search longer and harder to arrange their trades at favorable terms. Impatient traders pay for the privilege of trading when they want to trade... Larry Harris, Trading & Exchanges.

...it was never my thinking that made the big money for me. It was always my sitting. Got that? My sitting tight! I've known many men who were right at exactly the right time, and began buying or selling stocks when prices were at the very level which should have showed the greatest profit... their experience matched mine... they made no real money. Men who can be right and sit tight are uncommon... but it is only after a stock operator has firmly grasped this that he can make big money. The market does not beat them they beat themselves because though they have brains they cannot sit tight! Reminiscences (V)

Posted by baro-san on 11-29-11 04:03 PM:

Quote from iceman1:

Is it true Jack's a genius....??!!

Yes.

Posted by Mushroom on 11-29-11 04:05 PM:

Here's a trade today where I exited solely based on volume being too low. If it wasn't for volume it would have been a small loss instead of a small profit, cause I would have stayed in the trade longer.
Could give lots of examples where it has helped me, others prob can do. Don't understand how you can just disregard volume.

Posted by Albert Cibiades on 11-29-11 04:24 PM:

Quote from Mushroom:

Here's a trade today where I exited solely based on volume being too low. If it wasn't for volume it would have been a small loss instead of a small profit, cause I would have stayed in the trade longer.
Could give lots of examples where it has helped me, others prob can do. Don't understand how you can just disregard volume.

I don't know dip about ES, but my volume rules said that the likelihood of there being a trade in NQ around 7:35CT was poor, despite there being a double tap of a Dow retrace. So you used volume to get out, whereas I would have used volume not to get in. Thanks for sharing that trade. Nice example of not relying on a trendline bounce. Plus there were other S/R thingies transpiring there not encompassed in The World According to Jack.

Posted by ammo on 11-29-11 04:34 PM:

Quote from Mushroom:

Here's a trade today where I exited solely based on volume being too low. If it wasn't for volume it would have been a small loss instead of a small profit, cause I would have stayed in the trade longer.
Could give lots of examples where it has helped me, others prob can do. Don't understand how you can just disregard volume.

the volume usually precedes a move and takes a few minutes,you may or may not see it on a chart that updates every second,or the lag times may be too erratic,don't know,but when i see a spike on the 30 min,i try to find the price it happened by reducing to a 3 min or 5,or 1 to find the fat spot

Posted by Mushroom on 11-29-11 04:37 PM:

I don't know dip about ES, but my volume rules said that the likelihood of there being a trade in NQ around 7:35CT was poor, despite there being a double tap of a Dow retrace. So you used volume to get out, whereas I would have used volume not to get in. Thanks for sharing that trade. Nice example of not relying on a trendline bounce. Plus there were other S/R thingies transpiring there not encompassed in The World According to Jack.

So you use volume, and you make money? That's great, who cares who is right or wrong.
Used to share apartment with a poker pro, learnt you can't copy someone elses style even if you watch someone who's an expert for countless of hours and understand the thought process behind what he's doing. You have to take some bits and pieces that fits you and develope your own style.

Posted by Albert Cibiades on 11-29-11 04:44 PM:

Quote from Mushroom:

So you use volume, and you make money? That's great, who cares who is right or wrong.
Used to share apartment with a poker pro, learnt you can't copy someone elses style even if you watch someone who's an expert for countless of hours and understand the thought process behind what he's doing. You have to take some bits and pieces that fits you and develope your own style.

Agreed. Trading style is quite idiosyncratic. But I don't rag on Jack for me to be right and him to be wrong. I just enjoy throwing pebbles at Mt. Rushmore and experiencing how futile it is trying to communicate with an immutable stone monument.

Posted by bwolinsky on 11-29-11 05:59 PM:

Quote from Mushroom:

Here's a trade today where I exited solely based on volume being too low. If it wasn't for volume it would have been a small loss instead of a small profit, cause I would have stayed in the trade longer.
Could give lots of examples where it has helped me, others prob can do. Don't understand how you can just disregard volume.

Thank you for another hindsight trade.

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by nkhoi on 11-29-11 06:13 PM:

I don't know dip about ES, but my volume rules said that the likelihood of there being a trade in NQ around 7:35CT was poor, despite there being a double tap of a Dow retrace. So you used volume to get out, whereas I would have used volume not to get in. Thanks for sharing that trade. Nice example of not relying on a trendline bounce. Plus there were other S/R thingies transpiring there not encompassed in The World According to Jack.

by Jove! is it really you where is everybody? bring them back.

Posted by Mushroom on 11-29-11 06:26 PM:

Quote from bwolinsky:

Thank you for another hindsight trade.

I've already clearly stated that I'm a noob and practising in a simulator, so why would I try to impress? If I did I wouldn't show a 2 point winner, since my targets are usually way bigger.

I was just showing a trade where I was wrong entering but right exiting.

Posted by ammo on 11-29-11 06:38 PM:

Quote from Mushroom:

I've already clearly stated that I'm a noob and practising in a simulator, so why would I try to impress? If I did I wouldn't show a 2 point winner, since my targets are usually way bigger.

I was just showing a trade where I was wrong entering but right exiting.

ignore bwol,he's in the midst of disproving himself to himself,you know,break it down,analyze the weaknesses and then rebuild a better engine,doesn't know squat about trading,just theories and math,how to fool himself, ego,all that go from a caterpillar to a butterfly stuff,still in the cocoon,his opinion is invalid even to him

Posted by Albert Cibiades on 11-29-11 07:40 PM:

Quote from nkhoi:

by Jove! is it really you where is everybody? bring them back.

No. I am strangling them one by one when they dare to nap. It's not personal. Strictly business. I can't afford to keep up all of their computers any more.

Posted by Albert Cibiades on 11-29-11 07:51 PM:

Quote from ammo:

the volume usually precedes a move and takes a few minutes,you may or may not see it on a chart that updates every second,or the lag times may be too erratic,don't know,but when i see a spike on the 30 min,i try to find the price it happened by reducing to a 3 min or 5,or 1 to find the fat spot

Often you can see it on one second. At 11:46:35CT on NQ there was proof today that a bunch of people trust a double tap of the open. Smallfry, too, 375 contracts in 174 trades that second.

Posted by jack hershey on 11-29-11 08:07 PM:

"If the volume is peaking at less than the max volume from pt.1 to pt.2 and the volume difference going from the minimum trough at pt.3, then the trading fractal has also completed its pattern concurrently with the nested faster fractal."

Thius is a typical Jack totally qualitative statement which has no practical use. What determines "pt.1?" How much is "less than?" What is "max?" The assertion is grammatically sound, but not convertible to a trade decision in practice.

The subject of your quote is the new point 1 that is arriving. Obviously it is a good idea to be able to measure the market when this event is arriviing from the future as the future comes into the present.

The Pattern is being discussed; so have it at hand so you can refer to it if your mind has not digested it and turned it into long term memory known as inference. People who have built their minds, have the pattern in mind and the parts of the pattern come to consiousness as they "read" the market" which is different than reading what I instruct you to be able to do.

Since you can't, you get to read, yet one more time during one more year, what you have passively not grasped for several years, year after year.

The practical use of this statement is to have the ability to call the end of a hold to make the maximum profit the market is offering in a segment of price, volume movement. All fractals perform identically. Give yourself permission to consider this practical use. It is more important than the practical use of anything else and, as a matter of fact, you are chosing to use it to quote me and show the extent of your mind's development. We know where you are and you are going to find out what more is possible to gain from your unused potential.

The snippet on your viewing platform you have not mentioned is PRV; I believe it is still not added to your platform. There is no earthly rational reason for not adding PRV to any platform. Find out what irrational basis you have for this neglect. Anyone can use it on any trading strategy as a real aid.

PRV also closes the discussion of volume leading price. Its partner, PRP has never been mentioned before in public.

This statement refers to a specific time in the Pattern. Mark it on a print of the pattern.

"If the volume is peaking at less than the max volume from pt.1 to pt.2 and the volume difference going from the minimum trough at pt.3, then the trading fractal has also completed its pattern concurrently with the nested faster fractal.".

PRV tells you, bar after bar, that from point 3 you are increasing in volume from the trough @ point 3. You are told this at the beginning of each five minute bar.

Also a snippet you have coded on volume places an arrow on the top of the volume bar WHEN the real volume (during the bar) exceeds the prior volume. This is when beginners stop holding their collective breaths.

since you are tracking by annotating the next faster ractal in two places, you get to see this volume "carried" on the slower than trading fractal volume as well. It is a summation of three adjacent fractals.

You have an absolute comparision too.

]"If the volume is peaking at less than the max volume from pt.1 to pt.2 and the volume difference going from the minimum trough at pt.3, then the trading fractal has also completed its pattern concurrently with the nested faster fractal."

At that referenced event, you put in a book market on price so begin to book mark thsi volume accordingly.

As an analyst, say working for big money accounts, you are monitiring two aspects of volume bar by bar: valocity and its scalor magnitude. for each you have a reference. You are NOT just a casual reader of my works; you make money using your mind as well.

All trends end after pont 3. Reread the statement it is a quantitative statement as a matter of fact. It is concise, clear and cerips in the words of E. B White. (See "Elements of Style")

throughout the statement there is being made a very bold and succinct statement. Volume leads price and there are tools available to "read" the market using a fully differentiated mind. Expert reading in third grade comes from reading drills, having a vocabulary and knowing how sentences express complete thoughts. You have gained mind differentiation for reading through your third grade experience.

Now you are learning a definition of point 1 where trades end and begin. the terms used in the definition are also more general and more widely used words in the system of trading and the rigid interlocking of fractals.

If you see volume increasing (See PEP HS) from point 3 to point 1 (where the trends ends), you also know he faster fractal is going through piont1, 2 and 3 andcoming to its ending @ point 1. The slower than trading fractal is going from one point to another, more slowly.

This tight integration is there to see and read, IF and ONLY IF, you mind has the built differntiation which contains the pieces of inference which autoatically pop up into consciousness.

The pattern completes at the new point 1 when you see the PRV slacks off and the momentum of price, sometime during this 5 minute period, arrives at the exteme of the trend.

The slack off of volume precedes the extreme max of the price during this 300 second interval. It is smooth and you can trade about 5 times the market capacity as partial fills duing this climaxing period.

QED

Why didn't Covel get any of this? Those he interviewed didn't know it either. He was dealing with the CW crowd only. You are like these people and you talk like them too.

The pattern is a different world. Winchester should write a book like "Atlantic" about it. Our we should read an adventure of the lady with the dragon tatoo discovering the not so obvious relationship of volume and price. All of PEP and it applications are a paradigm shift in market trading. It is explained that I am arcane. Well ,of course, I started trading before arcane did.

I hope you can read this as a person skilled in reading a language. But you have to understand that your mind, as is Covel's, a blank canvas, with regard to the language of market's operation. Tah is the way it is for most people.

Neuroplasticity explains our differences. The mind cannot grow and construct a non system. That is yours and Covel's mutual problem. I, instead, worked in a scientific deductive way to build a system that is parallel to the market's operation. My system is found in a lot of people's minds these days since they adopted part or all of what the market does by building their minds.

Slowly as time passes people adopt beliefs through their habits. Unfortunately, for some people they do not always abide by critical thinking (yours and Covel's cases).

So now it is too late for each of you. neither of you can think critically any more. That time passed for you and for about 90% of people who lean failure instead.

One one the hardest lessons I was taught was to not care if people would not learn via critcal thinking. You are just another example; thats all.

We provide tools like arrows on volume and PRV and a dozen other leading indicators of price. they are trnslated into all the languages of the various platforms. You did not elect to use them so you got left behind by your choice. So you can't read and understand what I write. No one cares.

Posted by Albert Cibiades on 11-29-11 08:10 PM:

Back to you after the close. I copied the post, so you can now delete it in good conscience.

Posted by Albert Cibiades on 11-29-11 08:54 PM:

Odd, that if I were to substitute into your post my reality-based beliefs for your theoretical ones, I could be talking to you, or you to yourself, or both.

“The subject of your quote is the new point 1 that is arriving. Obviously it is a good idea to be able to measure the market when this event is arriviing from the future as the future comes into the present.”

The points of which you write are not “arriving from the future.” They are quite static S/R levels than can be seen many bars ahead depending on the chart peiod.

“The Pattern is being discussed; so have it at hand so you can refer to it if your mind has not digested it and turned it into long term memory known as inference. People who have built their minds, have the pattern in mind and the parts of the pattern come to consiousness as they "read" the market" which is different than reading what I instruct you to be able to do.”

There is no “pattern.” But there are logical arithmetical and mathemagical S/R levels. No “patterns” evolve. Volume discovery merely takes price to those levels here it is known that volume will appear. As to inference, I infer nothing. Inference is Aristotelian. I observe unfettered by theories. I am Galileo. But you are correct that reading the market is different from being the market.

“Since you can't, you get to read, yet one more time during one more year, what you have passively not grasped for several years, year after year.”

My inability to grasp your contorted market view is less astonishing than your own ability to learn from me given massive hints.

“The practical use of this statement is to have the ability to call the end of a hold to make the maximum profit the market is offering in a segment of price, volume movement. All fractals perform identically. Give yourself permission to consider this practical use. It is more important than the practical use of anything else and, as a matter of fact, you are chosing to use it to quote me and show the extent of your mind's development. We know where you are and you are going to find out what more is possible to gain from your unused potential.”

Fractals are a figment of your fertile, febrile imagination. The reality is that S/R works on the one-second level, on the one-minute level, on the daily level, and higher. What you see as fractals is merely the unfolding of the volume discovery price process.

“The snippet on your viewing platform you have not mentioned is PRV; I believe it is still not added to your platform. There is no earthly rational reason for not adding PRV to any platform. Find out what irrational basis you have for this neglect. Anyone can use it on any trading strategy as a real aid.”

PRV also is imaginary, an artifact of your slowed-down charting. It is nowhere to be seen at the market’s natural pace.

“PRV also closes the discussion of volume leading price. Its partner, PRP has never been mentioned before in public.”

Do tell of PRP. What better foil can you have than me for a new theory? Hmmbiliate me, and all ET will applaud.

“This statement refers to a specific time in the Pattern. Mark it on a print of the pattern.

"If the volume is peaking at less than the max volume from pt.1 to pt.2 and the volume difference going from the minimum trough at pt.3, then the trading fractal has also completed its pattern concurrently with the nested faster fractal.".”

If I am correctly visualizing your delusion, what I see is one-second S/R occurring near one-minute or higher S/R. Powerful mojo, but not magic.

“PRV tells you, bar after bar, that from point 3 you are increasing in volume from the trough @ point 3. You are told this at the beginning of each five minute bar.

Also a snippet you have coded on volume places an arrow on the top of the volume bar WHEN the real volume (during the bar) exceeds the prior volume. This is when beginners stop holding their collective breaths.

since you are tracking by annotating the next faster ractal in two places, you get to see this volume "carried" on the slower than trading fractal volume as well. It is a summation of three adjacent fractals.”

Again coincidence of S/R on different time frames. It is always nice in the Platonian sense to be able to distinguish the shadows on the cave wall from reality. No need to erect a complex theory around it. It would suffice to say "If you see a volume pimple, squeeze it."

“You have an absolute comparision too.

]"If the volume is peaking at less than the max volume from pt.1 to pt.2 and the volume difference going from the minimum trough at pt.3, then the trading fractal has also completed its pattern concurrently with the nested faster fractal."

At that referenced event, you put in a book market on price so begin to book mark thsi volume accordingly.

As an analyst, say working for big money accounts, you are monitiring two aspects of volume bar by bar: valocity and its scalor magnitude. for each you have a reference. You are NOT just a casual reader of my works; you make money using your mind as well.’’

I will give you this much: volume velocity is useful, Too bad you don't actually calculate it.

“All trends end after pont 3. Reread the statement it is a quantitative statement as a matter of fact. It is concise, clear and cerips in the words of E. B White. (See "Elements of Style")”

An unnecessary and oft-violated assertion. Be careful about making simple over-generalizations easily disproved.

“throughout the statement there is being made a very bold and succinct statement. Volume leads price and there are tools available to "read" the market using a fully differentiated mind. Expert reading in third grade comes from reading drills, having a vocabulary and knowing how sentences express complete thoughts. You have gained mind differentiation for reading through your third grade experience.”

I skipped third grade and went straight to junior high.

“Now you are learning a definition of point 1 where trades end and begin. the terms used in the definition are also more general and more widely used words in the system of trading and the rigid interlocking of fractals.

If you see volume increasing (See PEP HS) from point 3 to point 1 (where the trends ends), you also know he faster fractal is going through piont1, 2 and 3 andcoming to its ending @ point 1. The slower than trading fractal is going from one point to another, more slowly.

This tight integration is there to see and read, IF and ONLY IF, you mind has the built differntiation which contains the pieces of inference which autoatically pop up into consciousness.

The pattern completes at the new point 1 when you see the PRV slacks off and the momentum of price, sometime during this 5 minute period, arrives at the exteme of the trend.”

Make sure you know exactly what’s in a given volume. Not all of it is momentous.

“The slack off of volume precedes the extreme max of the price during this 300 second interval. It is smooth and you can trade about 5 times the market capacity as partial fills duing this climaxing period.

QED

Why didn't Covel get any of this? Those he interviewed didn't know it either. He was dealing with the CW crowd only. You are like these people and you talk like them too.

The pattern is a different world. Winchester should write a book like "Atlantic" about it. Our we should read an adventure of the lady with the dragon tatoo discovering the not so obvious relationship of volume and price. All of PEP and it applications are a paradigm shift in market trading. It is explained that I am arcane. Well ,of course, I started trading before arcane did.”

Your literary reference is apt. Perusing the SciFi shelves recently, I saw the title “The Dragon with the Girl Tattoo.” That’s you and me. Dragon and tattoo. Once I had a bumper sticker on my car: “Jeffrey Dahmer says “Tattoos Taste Great!””

“I hope you can read this as a person skilled in reading a language. But you have to understand that your mind, as is Covel's, a blank canvas, with regard to the language of market's operation. Tah is the way it is for most people.

Neuroplasticity explains our differences. The mind cannot grow and construct a non system. That is yours and Covel's mutual problem. I, instead, worked in a scientific deductive way to build a system that is parallel to the market's operation. My system is found in a lot of people's minds these days since they adopted part or all of what the market does by building their minds.”

Neuroplasticity I understand. My brain is so springy from early-onset that you could squeeze irt like a sponge. But it does absorb alcohol so much better now.

“Slowly as time passes people adopt beliefs through their habits. Unfortunately, for some people they do not always abide by critical thinking (yours and Covel's cases).

So now it is too late for each of you. neither of you can think critically any more. That time passed for you and for about 90% of people who lean failure instead.

One one the hardest lessons I was taught was to not care if people would not learn via critcal thinking. You are just another example; thats all.

We provide tools like arrows on volume and PRV and a dozen other leading indicators of price. they are trnslated into all the languages of the various platforms. You did not elect to use them so you got left behind by your choice. So you can't read and understand what I write. No one cares.”

I take great pride in not thinking. In its absence I substitute attentive critical observation. But I could explain what I do in twenty third-grade words or less. And remember, Dragon, the Tattoo knows NLP at least as well as you do. Did you know that tattoos itch?

Posted by pepdegree on 11-29-11 10:25 PM:

"Since you are tracking by annotating the next faster ractal in two places, you get to see this volume "carried" on the slower than trading fractal volume as well. It is a summation of three adjacent fractals."

Jack,can there be more then three adjacent fractals?Is there any practical purpose for that?Also,there are a lot of failed rtl's BOes on the finest.Does the "D" member on the finest fractal come from the volume summation of the trading and slower fractals combined?

Thx

Posted by Paddler on 11-30-11 01:44 AM:

Quote from jack hershey:
"If the volume is peaking at less than the max volume from pt.1 to pt.2 and the volume difference going from the minimum trough at pt.3, then the trading fractal has also completed its pattern concurrently with the nested faster fractal.".

Could you please clarify the above phrase in red? Do you mean the accumulated volume from pt.3 to new pt.1? If so, do you compare it to the accumulated volume from BO to pt.2?

With all due respect, I believe that the increasing volume after pt.3 could be peaking at HIGHER THAN the max volume from pt.1 to pt.2 for trading fractal to complete its pattern concurrently with its nested faster fractal. My belief is based on the context that the new pt.1 does not reach the trading fractal's LTL and the trading fractal is a dominant move inside a slower fractal.

In terms of trading, what I said is not important if one knows how to apply PRV and other fine tools.

Thank you for the sharing of knowledge.

Posted by TIKITRADER on 11-30-11 02:43 AM:

PRP -

Ok, I have a real good guess what it is Jack but how on earth do you know where to go with it ???
what direction ???

Posted by v34rm on 11-30-11 04:15 PM:

Quote from jack hershey:

The subject of your quote is the new point 1 that is arriving. Obviously it is a good idea to be able to measure the market when this event is arriviing from the future as the future comes into the present.

The Pattern is being discussed; so have it at hand so you can refer to it if your mind has not digested it and turned it into long term memory known as inference. People who have built their minds, have the pattern in mind and the parts of the pattern come to consiousness as they "read" the market" which is different than reading what I instruct you to be able to do.

Since you can't, you get to read, yet one more time during one more year, what you have passively not grasped for several years, year after year.

The practical use of this statement is to have the ability to call the end of a hold to make the maximum profit the market is offering in a segment of price, volume movement. All fractals perform identically. Give yourself permission to consider this practical use. It is more important than the practical use of anything else and, as a matter of fact, you are chosing to use it to quote me and show the extent of your mind's development. We know where you are and you are going to find out what more is possible to gain from your unused potential.

The snippet on your viewing platform you have not mentioned is PRV; I believe it is still not added to your platform. There is no earthly rational reason for not adding PRV to any platform. Find out what irrational basis you have for this neglect. Anyone can use it on any trading strategy as a real aid.

PRV also closes the discussion of volume leading price. Its partner, PRP has never been mentioned before in public.

This statement refers to a specific time in the Pattern. Mark it on a print of the pattern.

"If the volume is peaking at less than the max volume from pt.1 to pt.2 and the volume difference going from the minimum trough at pt.3, then the trading fractal has also completed its pattern concurrently with the nested faster fractal.".

PRV tells you, bar after bar, that from point 3 you are increasing in volume from the trough @ point 3. You are told this at the beginning of each five minute bar.

Also a snippet you have coded on volume places an arrow on the top of the volume bar WHEN the real volume (during the bar) exceeds the prior volume. This is when beginners stop holding their collective breaths.

since you are tracking by annotating the next faster ractal in two places, you get to see this volume "carried" on the slower than trading fractal volume as well. It is a summation of three adjacent fractals.

You have an absolute comparision too.

]"If the volume is peaking at less than the max volume from pt.1 to pt.2 and the volume difference going from the minimum trough at pt.3, then the trading fractal has also completed its pattern concurrently with the nested faster fractal."

At that referenced event, you put in a book market on price so begin to book mark thsi volume accordingly.

As an analyst, say working for big money accounts, you are monitiring two aspects of volume bar by bar: valocity and its scalor magnitude. for each you have a reference. You are NOT just a casual reader of my works; you make money using your mind as well.

All trends end after pont 3. Reread the statement it is a quantitative statement as a matter of fact. It is concise, clear and cerips in the words of E. B White. (See "Elements of Style")

throughout the statement there is being made a very bold and succinct statement. Volume leads price and there are tools available to "read" the market using a fully differentiated mind. Expert reading in third grade comes from reading drills, having a vocabulary and knowing how sentences express complete thoughts. You have gained mind differentiation for reading through your third grade experience.

Now you are learning a definition of point 1 where trades end and begin. the terms used in the definition are also more general and more widely used words in the system of trading and the rigid interlocking of fractals.

If you see volume increasing (See PEP HS) from point 3 to point 1 (where the trends ends), you also know he faster fractal is going through piont1, 2 and 3 andcoming to its ending @ point 1. The slower than trading fractal is going from one point to another, more slowly.

This tight integration is there to see and read, IF and ONLY IF, you mind has the built differntiation which contains the pieces of inference which autoatically pop up into consciousness.

The pattern completes at the new point 1 when you see the PRV slacks off and the momentum of price, sometime during this 5 minute period, arrives at the exteme of the trend.

The slack off of volume precedes the extreme max of the price during this 300 second interval. It is smooth and you can trade about 5 times the market capacity as partial fills duing this climaxing period.

QED

Why didn't Covel get any of this? Those he interviewed didn't know it either. He was dealing with the CW crowd only. You are like these people and you talk like them too.

The pattern is a different world. Winchester should write a book like "Atlantic" about it. Our we should read an adventure of the lady with the dragon tatoo discovering the not so obvious relationship of volume and price. All of PEP and it applications are a paradigm shift in market trading. It is explained that I am arcane. Well ,of course, I started trading before arcane did.

I hope you can read this as a person skilled in reading a language. But you have to understand that your mind, as is Covel's, a blank canvas, with regard to the language of market's operation. Tah is the way it is for most people.

Neuroplasticity explains our differences. The mind cannot grow and construct a non system. That is yours and Covel's mutual problem. I, instead, worked in a scientific deductive way to build a system that is parallel to the market's operation. My system is found in a lot of people's minds these days since they adopted part or all of what the market does by building their minds.

Slowly as time passes people adopt beliefs through their habits. Unfortunately, for some people they do not always abide by critical thinking (yours and Covel's cases).

So now it is too late for each of you. neither of you can think critically any more. That time passed for you and for about 90% of people who lean failure instead.

One one the hardest lessons I was taught was to not care if people would not learn via critcal thinking. You are just another example; thats all.

We provide tools like arrows on volume and PRV and a dozen other leading indicators of price. they are trnslated into all the languages of the various platforms. You did not elect to use them so you got left behind by your choice. So you can't read and understand what I write. No one cares.

Peaking meaking shmeaking volume.....just show the statement ....hahahaha

Posted by v34rm on 11-30-11 06:27 PM:

Plagiarism is defined in dictionaries as the "wrongful appropriation," "close imitation," or "purloining and publication" of another author's "language, thoughts, ideas, or expressions," and the representation of them as one's own original work,[1][2] but the notion remains problematic with nebulous boundaries.[3][4][5][6] The modern concept of plagiarism as immoral and originality as an ideal emerged in Europe only in the 18th century, particularly with the Romantic movement, while in the previous centuries authors and artists were encouraged to "copy the masters as closely as possible" and avoid "unnecessary invention."[7][8][9][10][11][12]

The 18th century new morals have been institutionalized and enforced prominently in the sectors of academia and journalism, where plagiarism is now considered academic dishonesty and a breach of journalistic ethics, subject to sanctions like expulsion and other severe career damage. Not so in the arts, which not only have resisted in their long-established tradition of copying as a fundamental practice of the creative process,[12][13][14] but with the boom of the modernist and postmodern movements in the 20th century, this practice has been heightened as the central and representative artistic device.[12][15][16] Plagiarism remains tolerated by 21st century artists.[13][14]

Plagiarism is not a crime per se but is disapproved more on the grounds of moral offence,[7][17] and cases of plagiarism can involve liability for copyright infringement.
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Posted by jack hershey on 11-30-11 06:36 PM:

Could you please clarify the above phrase in red? Do you mean the accumulated volume from pt.3 to new pt.1? If so, do you compare it to the accumulated volume from BO to pt.2?

your suggestion of "acumulated is well taken, howerer (chuckle), please just compare bars as a velocity study (increasing velocity) from pt 3 to point 1 (trough to peak in a container).

With all due respect, I believe that the increasing volume after pt.3 could be peaking at HIGHER THAN the max volume from pt.1 to pt.2 for trading fractal to complete its pattern concurrently with its nested faster fractal. My belief is based on the context that the new pt.1 does not reach the trading fractal's LTL and the trading fractal is a dominant move inside a slower fractal.

Extremely incisive. Congrats. It is important to consider "all things being equal". And, then there is the additional latitude required when setting world's records. I like the fact that you deal with the contextual giving regard to the slower fractal.

Wouldn't it be fun to slave over "writing the book once and for all"? It would be, so congrats.

In terms of trading, what I said is not important if one knows how to apply PRV and other fine tools.

It is always so delightful to be able to use the modern computer to sort out the thoughts of the significant and the insignificant peoples who are at play actively (rigorous or flying high with artisitically achieved rights to play).

We do get to have the best office windows, after all

Thank you for the sharing of knowledge.

YMW.

Posted by Joe Doaks on 11-30-11 06:37 PM:

Surely you aren't accusing Murphy of plagiarizing Hershey?

Posted by jack hershey on 11-30-11 06:46 PM:

Quote from pepdegree:

"Since you are tracking by annotating the next faster ractal in two places, you get to see this volume "carried" on the slower than trading fractal volume as well. It is a summation of three adjacent fractals."

Jack,can there be more then three adjacent fractals?Is there any practical purpose for that?Also,there are a lot of failed rtl's BOes on the finest.Does the "D" member on the finest fractal come from the volume summation of the trading and slower fractals combined?

Thx

Most of the world gets by with 7 fractals.

The current Depression will have 4 VE's in it's current last leg over the next 10 to 12 years. This is tough to process mentally. give yourself a chance.

Posted by jack hershey on 11-30-11 06:48 PM:

Quote from v34rm:

Peaking meaking shmeaking volume.....just show the statement ....hahahaha

Save yourself a wait or do the search. Just put me on ignore; it will not be possible for you to trade anyways.

Posted by jack hershey on 11-30-11 06:49 PM:

Quote from Joe Doaks:

Surely you aren't accusing Murphy of plagiarizing Hershey?

Are you on or off the booze and /or women?

Posted by jack hershey on 11-30-11 06:57 PM:

Quote from v34rm:

Plagiarism is defined in dictionaries as the "wrongful appropriation," "close imitation," or "purloining and publication" of another author's "language, thoughts, ideas, or expressions," and the representation of them as one's own original work,[1][2] but the notion remains problematic with nebulous boundaries.[3][4][5][6] The modern concept of plagiarism as immoral and originality as an ideal emerged in Europe only in the 18th century, particularly with the Romantic movement, while in the previous centuries authors and artists were encouraged to "copy the masters as closely as possible" and avoid "unnecessary invention."[7][8][9][10][11][12]

The 18th century new morals have been institutionalized and enforced prominently in the sectors of academia and journalism, where plagiarism is now considered academic dishonesty and a breach of journalistic ethics, subject to sanctions like expulsion and other severe career damage. Not so in the arts, which not only have resisted in their long-established tradition of copying as a fundamental practice of the creative process,[12][13][14] but with the boom of the modernist and postmodern movements in the 20th century, this practice has been heightened as the central and representative artistic device.[12][15][16] Plagiarism remains tolerated by 21st century artists.[13][14]

Plagiarism is not a crime per se but is disapproved more on the grounds of moral offence,[7][17] and cases of plagiarism can involve liability for copyright infringement.
Contents
[hide]

LOL.

See if you can dig up VE's, fanning and the interlocking of fractals.

How did he screw up that extra two moves that should not have been included?

Murphy's induction was just that.

Work through how and why he didn't "get it" from Granville's and Dodd's prior work. (The P. V relationship)

Also run through some research on the 10 cases and the rigorous application of the correct mathematics (Boolean Algebra).

The PM of the HS is unlikely to be found anywhere else as well. Events based parametric measures are not found in any prior work. Nor are they referenced in any subsequent works.

This is a paradigm shift from the CW and its foundations are all arcane as has been pointed out.

Posted by DowIndexTrader on 11-30-11 07:00 PM:

I was struggling to get my head around what is written about Jack Hershey's method on this thread until I came across the following article:

Posted by Albert Cibiades on 11-30-11 07:04 PM:

Quote from jack hershey:

Are you on or off the booze and /or women?

Sancho is always happy to oblige the Don.

Surely you remember the old joke from our misspent youth:

"She offered her honor and he honored her offer. And that's the way it went all night, honor and offer, honor and offer..."

Posted by ammo on 11-30-11 07:11 PM:

i just don't get the constant negativitry towards jack,if you have a system of your own and it works use it,if you cant grasp jacks ignore it,he writes like he writes,walks like he walks, breaths...none of that is going to change,i'm amazed at the tossing of rotten tomatoes this guy gets,some deep message in the human condition beneath it all,do any of the tomato tossers know why they toss or is it a join the crowd ,sheep herd mentality ,thing

Posted by jack hershey on 11-30-11 07:13 PM:

I was struggling to get my head around what is written about Jack Hershey's method on this thread until I came across the following article:

Babak was devoting space to his hardon about some frustration he enjoys.

I found it a very terrific piece. Once a program manager and her accomplice, the financial director, turned down an annual repeating gift in the mid 8 digit range. They backed up their decline with Babak's piece.

The IRS has also used Babak's piece as a partial basis for a set of questions they took over a year to develop as a response to a prior set of questions I spent 329 pages responding to. They also asked about my policy views on about 25 corporate boards (both for profit and NFP) they had nailed me for being on at one time or another. LOL.

Babak is doing a terrific service for me in keeping people like you and those others mentioned just above out of my hair.

Filtering is a vey neat thing. It is almost as neat as redacting trade secrets.

It is a very good idea for some people to just ignore me. for others, you can help work for me as a filter to keep people away from me.

Posted by jack hershey on 11-30-11 07:26 PM:

Quote from ammo:

i just don't get the constant negativitry towards jack,if you have a system of your own and it works use it,if you cant grasp jacks ignore it,he writes like he writes,walks like he walks, breaths...none of that is going to change,i'm amazed at the tossing of rotten tomatoes this guy gets,some deep message in the human condition beneath it all,do any of the tomato tossers know why they toss or is it a join the crowd ,sheep herd mentality ,thing

What would it be like is that these sheep didn't have a use for their tomatoes. Would they just eat them and get their nutritional value?

No, they have to continually go through, what the rest of us know to be, evolution. Now, they are just sheep throwing tomatoes types of sub-humans. BAAAA BAK included.

Posted by Albert Cibiades on 11-30-11 07:29 PM:

Quote from ammo:

i just don't get the constant negativitry towards jack,if you have a system of your own and it works use it,if you cant grasp jacks ignore it,he writes like he writes,walks like he walks, breaths...none of that is going to change,i'm amazed at the tossing of rotten tomatoes this guy gets,some deep message in the human condition beneath it all,do any of the tomato tossers know why they toss or is it a join the crowd ,sheep herd mentality ,thing

Did it ever occur to you that we do it because we LIKE him? Ever see the Kigme in Li'l Abner? A Kigme always has lots of friends.

Posted by ammo on 11-30-11 07:36 PM:

seems his threads are a back door into et for all the nutjobs,some guys that dont know bid/ask pile on for the chance to post,there is even one guy in here with an attic full of jack memorabilia,posts his doll,news clippings,national enquirer articles,jack were you in a rock band at one time,maybe they are your old groupies

Posted by Albert Cibiades on 11-30-11 07:37 PM:

Two traders whose totally different systems produced identical entries and exits would argue nonetheless about whose system is better.

Posted by ammo on 11-30-11 07:42 PM:

Posted by Albert Cibiades on 11-30-11 07:43 PM:

Quote from ammo:

seems his threads are a back door into et for all the nutjobs,some guys that dont know bid/ask pile on for the chance to post,there is even one guy in here with an attic full of jack memorabilia,posts his doll,news clippings,national enquirer articles,jack were you in a rock band at one time,maybe they are your old groupies

And there are a few of us who watch the markets closely (in my case, second by second), and wonder where all the Hershey trades are at the times hindsight indicates they should have been made. If they ARE trading, they aren't trading large.

Posted by Albert Cibiades on 11-30-11 07:50 PM:

Quote from ammo:

Oh, my! I thought everybody traded here.

Posted by pepdegree on 11-30-11 07:53 PM:

Jack,give yourself a chance and stop spending your time on a BS.Consult the 4 Ashrama(stage),you are in the last one yet.You still have a LOT of time!

Wish you the best!

Posted by Mushroom on 11-30-11 08:11 PM:

What do you guys think about days where there's an uptrend in the morning VS days that starts with a downtrend?
It seems to me that when the market drops in the morning it follows a pattern that is easier to trade. It drops until it reverses somewhere between 11 and 12 and then there are often a substantial move in the opposite direction.
Days that starts with an uptrend on the other hand doesn't seem to reverse and move substantially in the opposite direction in the afternoon nearly as often. There's more often drifts, random moves and stuff like that for the rest of the day.
Thinking about this for a month everything I see seems to confirm it, and I've studied old charts too. But maybe it doesn't hold true over time?

Basically my question is - if you wanna trade the channels in a simple way as a beginner, over time, isn't going long after a morning downtrend much more profitable than going short after a morning uptrend?

Posted by baro-san on 11-30-11 09:45 PM:

Oh, my! I thought everybody traded here.

I'm surprised how many "traders" have enough time to post and argue during RTH.

Posted by Albert Cibiades on 11-30-11 10:02 PM:

Quote from baro-san:

I'm surprised how many "traders" have enough time to post and argue during RTH.

My excuse is that I am so well automated that I can turn off my screen and tell what is happening from audible status alerts. If I miss an entry or exit by the few seconds it takes me to get re-oriented from ET to realET it might even improve my expectation. Price is either doing nothing or doing something, and all you really need to know is when price shifts from one state to the other. And that doesn't happen all that many times a day. Otherise I wouldn't have time to surf porn, rag on Jack, nap, take a snort, email friends, etc. Trading is an excellent occupation for a dissolute person.

Posted by pepdegree on 11-30-11 10:12 PM:

Posted by Albert Cibiades on 11-30-11 10:29 PM:

Quote from pepdegree:

I only automate the trade entries and exits. Automating the actual trades would take all the fun out of it. KInd of like screwing. It's OK if fate decides the opportunity, but you want to do the actual work yourself.

Posted by RCG Trader on 11-30-11 10:45 PM:

I only automate the trade entries and exits. Automating the actual trades would take all the fun out of it. KInd of like screwing. It's OK if fate decides the opportunity, but you want to do the actual work yourself.

That was a good post

Consider it stolen

Posted by Albert Cibiades on 11-30-11 10:50 PM:

That was a good post

Consider it stolen

Posted by TIKITRADER on 12-01-11 03:53 AM:

PRP -

Ok, I have a real good guess what it is Jack but how on earth do you know where to go with it ???
what direction ???

Ok jack... I'm hanging at 60 and 240 is ahead, but I have it now,
because I chose to do something about it and brought it to the present , theres no need to procrastinate.

Any advice as I hit 60 because theres a lot of feedback there that even continues as it passes to 3x60,4x60 , because I know the road ahead even though its not visible... I know this road and want that curve ahead that is not in sight displayed
on the navigation ... which can be programmed to display what has yet to be driven.
The navigation needs to show the interactive maps . The map has a big x on it .
I'm taking gps at 1x60 . any advice ???
Were taking serious gps jack , the real deal
I'm asking santa for a kick ass navigator this year .

Posted by Paddler on 12-01-11 04:23 AM:

Quote from jack hershey:

Could you please clarify the above phrase in red? Do you mean the accumulated volume from pt.3 to new pt.1? If so, do you compare it to the accumulated volume from BO to pt.2?

your suggestion of "acumulated is well taken, howerer (chuckle), please just compare bars as a velocity study (increasing velocity) from pt 3 to point 1 (trough to peak in a container).

Thanks. I over-read what you meant in the statement, LOL.

Posted by BenzMercedesSL on 12-01-11 11:20 AM:

Re: Re: Re: Rocket backtest

Quote from jack hershey:
degapping is required.

Also use the third leading indicator Stoch (5, 2, 3) and the signal is @ 50%.

Indicators of two line charts are determined by the relationship of the two lines.

In MACD you will notice two opposite words. A set of six relations results. The six relations follow an order of events.

I posted an attachment for the benefit of a thread that had not learned about indicators and are following a set of CW myths instead. As usual, this interesting thread was closed. LOL...

I corrected the mistakes and made some changes. I used 25/75 for Stoc(14,1,3) for entry and Stoc(5,2,3) for exit. The result is improved. Here are the updated rocket criteria:

1. Long when macd(5,13,6) histogram >= 0.4 and stoc(14,1,3) K > 75 and stoc(14,1,3) D > 75 (K or D is crossing 75) and Vol>=Fast Pace
2. Short when macd(5,13,6) histogram <= -0.4 and stoc(14,1,3) K <25 and stoc(14,1,3) D < 25 (K or D is crossing 25) and Vol>=Fast Pace
3. Close long when stoc(5,2,3) K < 75
4. Close short when stoc(5,2,3) K > 25

I used stoc(5,2,3) K crossing 50 as an entry signal, but more losing trades resulted. I am still studying how to apply stoc(5,2,3).

Quote from jack hershey:
MACD and stochastics are mathematical names. The key words are divergence, convergence and stochastics. They all apply to the relationship of the two lines.
....
How many cases are considered for the two line relationship?
....
So three points in time suffice to show the two lines on each indicator. For each indicator only six alternative triad cases have to be considered when the first element is limited to D or C. always the middle of the triad is NOT D or C.
....

There are 4 cases for the two line relationship (Please see the attachment):
1. Convergence (C)
2. Divergence (D)
3. Crossover (X)
4. Parallel (which rarely happens)

The 6 triad cases (The 1st element is either C or D and the middle element is X) are:
CXX, CXD, CXC, DXX, DXD, DXC

I am still figuring out how these triad cases relates to the order of events. Do these 6 relations refer to B2B2R2B and R2R2B2R?

The full version of the blue post is here:

Posted by BenzMercedesSL on 12-01-11 11:43 AM:

I always found CXD in MACD (the green rectangles in the attachment) and it is a lagging signal. I seldom see CXX, CXC, DXX, DXD and DXC in MACD.

I focus on these 5 triads (CXX, CXC, DXX, DXD and DXC). Am I on the right track?

Posted by Albert Cibiades on 12-01-11 01:22 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Rocket backtest

Quote from BenzMercedesSL:

I corrected the mistakes and made some changes. I used 25/75 for Stoc(14,1,3) for entry and Stoc(5,2,3) for exit. The result is improved. Here are the updated rocket criteria:

1. Long when macd(5,13,6) histogram >= 0.4 and stoc(14,1,3) K > 75 and stoc(14,1,3) D > 75 (K or D is crossing 75) and Vol>=Fast Pace
2. Short when macd(5,13,6) histogram <= -0.4 and stoc(14,1,3) K <25 and stoc(14,1,3) D < 25 (K or D is crossing 25) and Vol>=Fast Pace
3. Close long when stoc(5,2,3) K < 75
4. Close short when stoc(5,2,3) K > 25

I used stoc(5,2,3) K crossing 50 as an entry signal, but more losing trades resulted. I am still studying how to apply stoc(5,2,3).

There are 4 cases for the two line relationship (Please see the attachment):
1. Convergence (C)
2. Divergence (D)
3. Crossover (X)
4. Parallel (which rarely happens)

The 6 triad cases (The 1st element is either C or D and the middle element is X) are:
CXX, CXD, CXC, DXX, DXD, DXC

I am still figuring out how these triad cases relates to the order of events. Do these 6 relations refer to B2B2R2B and R2R2B2R?

The full version of the blue post is here:

Hmm. A rocket. Let's see. How would a rocket scientist characterize a rocket? Measure position as a function of time? Derive velocity and acceleration as functions of time? Maybe characterize propellant consumption from telemetry? Process all the data he has with modern DSP filters? Nah! He'd use some fucking seventy year old voodoo formula from the slide rule era!

Posted by RCG Trader on 12-01-11 03:18 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Rocket backtest

Hmm. A rocket. Let's see. How would a rocket scientist characterize a rocket? Measure position as a function of time? Derive velocity and acceleration as functions of time? Maybe characterize propellant consumption from telemetry? Process all the data he has with modern DSP filters? Nah! He'd use some fucking seventy year old voodoo formula from the slide rule era!

The rocket is a moniker for beginning Hershey traders who cannot see the market yet. The indicators are there as training wheels.

To make this right down to earth in a language that you can easily understand, a rocket is when you enter a position as price is within 75% of it's 14 bar high and on heavy volume relative to the bar by bar volume of the prior month.

How hard is that?

Posted by Albert Cibiades on 12-01-11 03:27 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Rocket backtest

The rocket is a moniker for beginning Hershey traders who cannot see the market yet. The indicators are there as training wheels.

To make this right down to earth in a language that you can easily understand, a rocket is when you enter a position as price is within 75% of it's 14 bar high and on heavy volume relative to the bar by bar volume of the prior month.

How hard is that?

Even better! Don't need a slide rule for that! An abacus will do.

Posted by RCG Trader on 12-01-11 03:30 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Rocket backtest

Even better! Don't need a slide rule for that! An abacus will do.

They have been trading rice in japan for several hundred years young man, a piece of paper and a pencil is really and truly all you need.

Posted by Albert Cibiades on 12-01-11 04:12 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Rocket backtest

They have been trading rice in japan for several hundred years young man, a piece of paper and a pencil is really and truly all you need.

My first day at The Little Red Schoolhouse they gave us chalk and slates.

Posted by RCG Trader on 12-01-11 04:14 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Rocket backtest

My first day at The Little Red Schoolhouse they gave us chalk and slates.

Young people

Posted by Albert Cibiades on 12-01-11 04:36 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Rocket backtest

Young people

I refer you to the Dunning-Kruger effect.

Posted by RCG Trader on 12-01-11 04:55 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Rocket backtest

I refer you to the Dunning-Kruger effect.

And yet, you failed to refute my earlier assertion.

Some will make money, you will not. Everyone cannot win.

Have a nice day

Posted by GordonTheGekko on 12-01-11 04:58 PM:

Some of the comments about Spyderrader being an incredibly poorly dressed ratty guy, Jack in huge debt, Jack not doing an insurance startup, etc. don't really have validity to them. All I hear is the tax lien thing.

Can someone clarify these?

Posted by Albert Cibiades on 12-01-11 05:01 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Rocket backtest

And yet, you failed to refute my earlier assertion.

Some will make money, you will not. Everyone cannot win.

Have a nice day

Posted by ammo on 12-01-11 05:06 PM:

Quote from GordonTheGekko:

Some of the comments about Spyderrader being an incredibly poorly dressed ratty guy, Jack in huge debt, Jack not doing an insurance startup, etc. don't really have validity to them. All I hear is the tax lien thing.

Can someone clarify these?

that nutjob has been following jack around for years, each thread a new alias,sad thing is ,he' a bright guy,just can't get out from under his rock

Posted by R. Raskolnikov on 12-02-11 03:22 AM:

A bright guy who is living out Einstein's definition of insanity

Quote from ammo:

that nutjob has been following jack around for years, each thread a new alias,sad thing is ,he' a bright guy,just can't get out from under his rock

Posted by ammo on 12-02-11 06:30 AM:

Posted by ammo on 12-02-11 07:20 AM:

i dont follow jack, i read about 1/3 of his posts and then lose interest ,an attention problem,it' basically channel trading,a guy shining shoes for 50 yrs is going to know more than a guy at it for a year,so there should be some stuff in there worth reading, i did take away some profitable things about volume spikes that i never looked at before,i don't believe your hooey about taxes and such,it's just a mosquito you take out of the box,following jack's posts,it's an obsession,just don't get it,basically in trying to make jack miserable,you annoy everyone,sort of taking a crap on et every other day, most of us go in the bathroom and shut the door, guess that is not your thing,again ,i don't get it

Posted by TIKITRADER on 12-02-11 09:20 PM:

PRP -

Ok, I have a real good guess what it is Jack but how on earth do you know where to go with it ???
what direction ???

Ok jack... I'm hanging at 60 and 240 is ahead, but I have it now,
because I chose to do something about it and brought it to the present , theres no need to procrastinate.

Any advice as I hit 60 because theres a lot of feedback there that even continues as it passes to 3x60,4x60 , because I know the road ahead even though its not visible... I know this road and want that curve ahead that is not in sight displayed
on the navigation ... which can be programmed to display what has yet to be driven.
The navigation needs to show the interactive maps . The map has a big x on it .
I'm taking gps at 1x60 . any advice ???
Were taking serious gps jack , the real deal
I'm asking santa for a kick ass navigator this year .

v_p@60 can be displayed as a widget which are real popular for desktop glance.
orientation is from left v_p@60 to the right v_p@300 with additional increments positioned in between also as widgets bordered by the previous makes visual a pleasure, as if you look at a green glowing screen in the dark and the outside world is illuminated, nothing hiding as we uncover all the nocturnal lurking.
It's hilarious to have that clarity in front of you while everyone is walking into walls in the dark.
Night vision,Gps, Navigation on a 405.
Try to keep up. Get a fast car this is taking off.

1x60 still need advice ???? Jack help me with the flux capacitor.

Posted by nursebee on 12-03-11 12:57 AM:

Hershey Highway

Posted by nkhoi on 12-04-11 12:31 AM:

If Jack is broke and in debt, how did he get a tax bill of 82000 dollars?

You need to make > 350 k to get a tax bill that high. If anything, this post actually supports that Jack has made money trading.

since he is not US citizen he may not be aware of this fact at all.

Posted by Wide Tailz on 12-04-11 12:37 AM:

If Jack is broke and in debt, how did he get a tax bill of 82000 dollars?

You need to make > 350 k to get a tax bill that high. If anything, this post actually supports that Jack has made money trading.

Not that it is anyone's business, but this point is valid. There was a big income behind that bill.

Posted by baro-san on 12-04-11 02:47 AM:

Quote from trevallicon:
Be aware that the harassment you inflict yields bad energy against you from dozens people. You may not believe in these things, but are you willing to take the risk to feel it back in your life and your loved ones'? You shouldn't.

Posted by RCG Trader on 12-04-11 03:10 AM:

Quote from trevallicon:

Ahhhh the new age chimes in.. wherever fantasy is to be found you'll find a tree hugging, guru humping hippie

And I'll take your feeble attempt at intimidation as a white flag and admission that what I've said can't be refuted and Jack is indeed broke, in debt and has a lousy system with many very very very stupid followers ;)

So umm, what do you get from stalking Jack Hershey for over 5 years? What is the payoff?

Jack is still around, he has many more followers than detractors, and his trading tribe is well established over at Trader's Laboratory, which runs a tight ship.

You have lost whatever battle you thought you were fighting. Give up.

Posted by ammo on 12-04-11 04:22 AM:

he quit fighting long ago,gave in to being a nutjob,question is does he have the balls to fight to get his sanity back,or keep the yellow streak going as an internet coward

Posted by R. Raskolnikov on 12-04-11 04:43 AM:

my vote is internet coward; delusional one at that thinking he is 'reaching people' when all his posts get deleted each and every time

The part that cracks me up is when he says he receives PM's thanking him for his service! LOL....what a crock.

Quote from ammo:

he quit fighting long ago,gave in to being a nutjob,question is does he have the balls to fight to get his sanity back,or keep the yellow streak going as an internet coward

Posted by RCG Trader on 12-04-11 09:25 AM:

Quote from trevallicon:

It's like anything else when you tell the truth.. a numbers game

100 may see it and 99 may still delude themselves as you do..

But it's not about the ones that can't be helped, it's about the few that do wake up because they see the obvious disparity I highlight

That's the only pay off that can be expected when a deranged old man uses NLP to rope in suckers to massage his inflated ego to make up for a lifetime of failure

And if it were only ever one single person it would still be worth 2 minutes of my time ;)

So you are so deluded as to think you are providing some kind of service?

Is that why they keep banning you?

If anything, your constant bringing of old Jack threads to the top of each category has exposed more people the methodology, not less.

Posted by R. Raskolnikov on 12-04-11 01:53 PM:

He's not too bright, LOL

If anything, your constant bringing of old Jack threads to the top of each category has exposed more people the methodology, not less.

Posted by d08 on 12-04-11 03:19 PM:

Quote from Wide Tailz:

Not that it is anyone's business, but this point is valid. There was a big income behind that bill.

Who says it's all from one year earnings? It could have accumulated from a very long period.

Posted by jack hershey on 12-04-11 09:54 PM:

Quote from BenzMercedesSL:

I always found CXD in MACD (the green rectangles in the attachment) and it is a lagging signal. I seldom see CXX, CXC, DXX, DXD and DXC in MACD.

I focus on these 5 triads (CXX, CXC, DXX, DXD and DXC). Am I on the right track?

MBSL:

The cases in two line theory you mention also have two others. These are D max C and C min D. They are as important as the crossover.

Having all of the cases, then allows you to build the OOE's of the cases. Having this complete finite set to finite set knowledge, then you can move to "knowing you always know".

Sorry for my delay.

I was glad to see that someone explained the relationship of taxes and income.

The IRS still does not understand the concept of trade secrets and just who gets to see what. they feel they are the empowered retdactors (but they aren't so far).

Posted by BenzMercedesSL on 12-05-11 01:03 AM:

Quote from jack hershey:

MBSL:

The cases in two line theory you mention also have two others. These are D max C and C min D. They are as important as the crossover.

Having all of the cases, then allows you to build the OOE's of the cases. Having this complete finite set to finite set knowledge, then you can move to "knowing you always know".

Sorry for my delay.

I was glad to see that someone explained the relationship of taxes and income.

The IRS still does not understand the concept of trade secrets and just who gets to see what. they feel they are the empowered retdactors (but they aren't so far).

Thanks, Jack!

I'll look into it.

Posted by SK0 on 12-05-11 04:00 AM:

Quote from jack hershey:
MBSL:

The cases in two line theory you mention also have two others. These are D max C and C min D. They are as important as the crossover.

Having all of the cases, then allows you to build the OOE's of the cases. Having this complete finite set to finite set knowledge, then you can move to "knowing you always know".

....

What is special about C min D? Isn't it the same as C X D?

Posted by jack hershey on 12-05-11 06:22 PM:

Quote from SK0:

What is special about C min D? Isn't it the same as C X D?

As you look at monitoring and analyzing several fractals, it is important to know where you are on your trading fractal.

The faster fractal is having three moves for each move on the trading fractal.

As you go through the succession of the 3:1 ratio, you see legs of the trading fractal more or less pause as the faster fractal is doing its non dominant middle leg. So at this time there is no crossover by the fast line of the slow line. There is convergence and a minimum and then divergence.

All of this tells you to hold through the non dom faster fractal move.

When using indicators to trade, once their defaults afford proper synchronization, then you can read several fractals on the indicators.

A very important thing is to mentally evelop the skills to "read" two line indicators as leading indicators. This skill is gained by learning the OOE of each fractal on the two lines; then you adjust the OOE to be read just as you add a phase angle to a sinusoid. Two line indicators have a lot of signals and each sunset applied to the OOE of each of the nested fractals.

As a trader's skill increases, he considers trading more frequently than FTT to FTT. If he has watched the two line indicators with sensitiviety, he can easily switch to more frequent trading.

Elsewhere there is a thread on effectiveness on several different approaches and strategies. There you see a yield per 100K for a combo of several divisions (meaning approaches and markets). The organization makes 11 dollars a minute over a year using RTH's in the markets it plays.

When you look at one account in ES and do point to point trading, the account only makes 3 to 4 dollars a minute. Then you can consider the NFA amateur limits of individual person's accounts for amateurs (15). This means an amateur can make about 45 to 60 dollars a minute on the limited accounts he can trade on one exchange. Each of the 15 accounts can trade several exchanges simultaineously in each country. As a day passes, RTH's begin and end in different countries. For example South America is East of the US by half a day in RTH's terms. european Exchanges preceded both SA and the US. Asian markets cycle ahead of European markets. Roughly speaking by using Colo and having local credit based on central capitalization, you can at least triple the minutely rate of 45 to 60 dollars a minute as an amateur.

All of the above only applies to intraday trading market paces which have relatively low account balances. For position trading, each account is 5 times larger And makes much less money velocity and for SSR the capital is unlimited but there is a very low money velocity ofeten meaured over weeks and months.

Two line indicators work for all liquid markets. Liquidity is a minimum market requirement. Making money by monitoring and analysis is only related to the market's pace and the duration of trend segment in a given trading fractal.

Basically, you only build your mind once. BUT it is also true that you have only one opportunity to build your mind.

Full differentiation is only dependent on doing drills to obtain the pieces of inference. The mind does two things for you. It arranges the pieces in a logical spectrum. Then where weaknesses exist, the mind surfaces questions to be drilled upon to bring the spectrum into balance.

Most people deny themselves the once in a lifetime opportunity. Their way of growing in a given convention slowly squeezes out the opportunity. On.Target is a good person to read to understand how this divorce from opportunity takes place. He avoided it by growing in one of the acceptable conventions. His organization would not be limited to 11 dollars a minute for RTH annually.

If a person wishes he can marry the two line theory to "The Pattern". I use 10 to 12 leading indicators of the fractal I am trading. It is possible to invent about as many leading indicators as you wish.

Markets are basically timeless. They have participant operating rules. Collectively, all the participants in a given market have this timeless participating characteristic. It fit under the heading of Human Nature. Humans have learned to harness Science to work for them and to define, intimately, the working of Nature. The markets all fit into this realm of study and examination.

So the market, for me, are part of my supply chain. I simply extract the full offer of the markets continually. Anyone can look at the relationship of the market's offer and the performance of PEP, the paradigm best used, for extracting capital from their operating pools.

Why doesn't betting work? It is good to know this.

Posted by Peternam on 12-05-11 07:03 PM:

Mister Jack,

Could it be that when liquidity is low fractals on the different time frames start overlapping each other and FTT's evaporate ?

Posted by Wide Tailz on 12-05-11 11:19 PM:

Quote from d08:

Who says it's all from one year earnings? It could have accumulated from a very long period.

So you mean to imply that Mr. H is consistently profitable?

Posted by DB_sezwhat on 12-06-11 12:03 AM:

Quote from DB_sezwhat:

I'm not sure, but I think Sierra Charts does it the best. rainman2(great guy ) made it available to all.

Quote from jack hershey:

I use 10 to 12 leading indicators of the fractal I am trading. It is possible to invent about as many leading indicators as you wish.

First, I would like to thank all of you that have pm'd me. One of the questions that gets asked is " when to cover and/or reverse?". Today, like every other day provided the answer with CDV of YM.( which as everybody knows is a leading indicator of ES). Pay particular attention to the green bookmarks on CDV.

Posted by d08 on 12-06-11 12:11 AM:

Quote from Wide Tailz:

So you mean to imply that Mr. H is consistently profitable?

Certainly not. My point was that it can come from real estate taxes or a number of things. In reality, the spending opportunities are greatly reduced when you owe the IRS.

Posted by Nebuchadnezzar on 12-06-11 02:02 AM:

Demolish this for me.

That's easy. Today at precisely 13:35:17, 17 seconds into the black forming bar, PRV indicated almost 10 times the Volume that is coming in compared to the previous bar (projecting over 80K). The Price was breaking out in a "certain" way out of "certain type" of lateral formation. Anybody who was short after 12:55 and takes their cue from that ridiculous volume vs. volatility matrix that you morons are worshiping, received the signal to reverse long. Those who trade know how it would have worked out after market dropped 10 points on the next 6 bars.

"Correlation does not imply causation". Read and re-read this until you get it.

Hershey, spyderguru and makosqu - the holy trinity of sct, who claimed to have found the workaround, - do not trade, period. That's why Al can't see them where crayola bar drill says they would be trading. QED

Posted by Nebuchadnezzar on 12-06-11 02:14 AM:

In case you wanna bring up no-stationary window, at the close of 1340 bar YM was trading on the right side of the short channel after breaking its right trendline on increasing volume and in the volume trough which according to hershey precede the point 3 and resumption of the long trend. If you morons were actually trading instead beating the dead horse with static charts, you would see how ridiculous all that hershey-spyderguru crap is.

Posted by TIKITRADER on 12-06-11 02:28 AM:

Here is a quick throw together ES chart if you want for reference.

Posted by Nebuchadnezzar on 12-06-11 02:34 AM:

Here is a quick throw together ES chart if you want for reference.

Make sure to differentiate the "specific" lateral formation I referenced from all other types of lateral formations. Hint: note where the break out bar begins and how the picture would look like in real time instead eod static.

P.S. Spyderguru publicly alluded to having no use for eod static charts and yet proceeded to spend a year or two posting them with remarkable consistency and discipline. WTF?

Posted by Nebuchadnezzar on 12-06-11 02:48 AM:

Quote from DB_sezwhat:

First, I would like to thank all of you that have pm'd me. One of the questions that gets asked is " when to cover and/or reverse?". Today, like every other day provided the answer with CDV of YM.( which as everybody knows is a leading indicator of ES). Pay particular attention to the green bookmarks on CDV.

Why don't you try to draw the channel in which the 15:06 YM OB bar is an Ftt. Hint: you will not be able to. So much for failure to reach the left trendline.

Wake up, dude. Hershey and spyder are like faith healers. They take advantage of people who want to believe. But there's nothing in their bag of tricks.

Posted by TIKITRADER on 12-06-11 03:13 AM:

I'm still looking for 1.21 gigawatts x 141.6 km/h to run this PRP machine...
I am talking the future right freaking here 240 before anyone else even knows it's happening.

1x60 !!!!! Im stuck here ...I need to get into the future HERE Jack
2x
3x
4x
5x

Dammit Dr Jack H , I need your assistance to launch the PRP futuremachine
I am serious... I am talking some serious shit here... serious shit.

Posted by Nebuchadnezzar on 12-06-11 03:18 AM:

I'm still looking for 1.21 gigawatts x 141.6 km/h to run this PRP machine...
I am talking the future right freaking here 240 before anyone else even knows it's happening.

1x60 !!!!! Im stuck here ...I need to get into the future HERE Jack
2x
3x
4x
5x

Dammit Dr Jack H , I need your assistance to launch the PRP futuremachine
I am serious... I am talking some serious shit here... serious shit.

Dr. Emmett Brown: If my calculations are correct, when this baby hits eighty-eight miles per hour... you're gonna see some serious shit.

Posted by MarketMasher on 12-06-11 03:22 AM:

It's the Anti-Drago. Watch out for the Anti-Drago.

Posted by pepdegree on 12-06-11 03:40 AM:

Gos,if you are so lazy or stupid to get it on your own,I can teach you JH method within a month but,it'll cost you 100k a month but,I guarantee you'll be a profitable trader after that.
Of course,if Jack doesn't mind.

Posted by pepdegree on 12-06-11 03:59 AM:

For you it is.You've already lost a half of your brain cells.Thanks God,it is renewable ,don't lose the other half!

Posted by Joe Doaks on 12-06-11 04:02 AM:

Here is a quick throw together ES chart if you want for reference.

Tike, I don't trade ES, but it took me about five minutes to crudely translate how I trade NQ on one-second to how to trade ES on five-minute. The presentation lacks eelegance, because I hacked it out quickly, but it gets the point across. If the study is all red or red bracketing orange, short. If the study is all green or green bracketing orange, long. The ESignal script is about 20 SLOCs long. The snapshoit is overnight data, PST.

Posted by Nebuchadnezzar on 12-06-11 04:12 AM:

Quote from Joe Doaks:

Tike, I don't trade ES, but it took me about five minutes to crudely translate how I trade NQ on one-second to how to trade ES on five-minute. The presentation lacks eelegance, because I hacked it out quickly, but it gets the point across. If the study is all red or red bracketing orange, short. If the study is all green or green bracketing orange, long. The ESignal script is about 20 SLOCs long. The snapshoit is overnight data, PST.

Ha-Ha. You succinctly put 10 yrs worth of hershey/spyder nonsense in one picture. Both are meaningless unless the execution rules are defined crisply and rigorously, which is something that sct presentations lack.

Posted by pepdegree on 12-06-11 04:32 AM:

You troll living in illusions and you want to come over a profitable method to get even more illusions.Never happens!

Posted by pepdegree on 12-06-11 04:33 AM:

Ha-Ha. You succinctly put 10 yrs worth of hershey/spyder nonsense in one picture. Both are meaningless unless the execution rules are defined crisply and rigorously, which is something that sct presentations lack.

Check 'Exact Science' thread for the execution rules.

Posted by stock777 on 12-06-11 04:46 AM:

jack?

__________________
"Those that know ain't saying, and those saying don't know." - E. A. Neumann

A bear since 1958 and proud of it.

Posted by Nebuchadnezzar on 12-06-11 04:53 AM:

Quote from pepdegree:

Check 'Exact Science' thread for the execution rules.

Can you imagine what kind of shit is going on inside a person's head who puts up this type of crap :

Posted by baro-san on 12-06-11 05:00 AM:

Anger is not good for health.

Posted by pepdegree on 12-06-11 05:13 AM:

Can you imagine what kind of shit is going on inside a person's head who puts up this type of crap :

He is an engineer.Be selective,don't take everything for granted.

Posted by pepdegree on 12-06-11 05:16 AM:

Quote from stock777:

jack?

No,it's Gos imagining three-decked yacht with chicks

Posted by Nebuchadnezzar on 12-06-11 05:26 AM:

Quote from pepdegree:

He is an engineer.Be selective,don't take everything for granted.

There are plenty of lunatics who claim to be engineers, some of them even allowed on the computer. This is not the work of a person who is capable of straight thinking, forming the concepts and communicating them to other humans.

Posted by pepdegree on 12-06-11 05:38 AM:

There are plenty of lunatics who claim to be engineers, some of them even allowed on the computer. This is not the work of a person who is capable of straight thinking, forming the concepts and communicating them to other humans.

Who is?Can you bring an example of a straight concept available to the general public for free?

You also got to admit that the guy is 80 yo,haven't lost his mind and keep staying in demand.I'm younger more then a half and I'm by this time being I'm more fucked then entire ET yet.Not sure if I'll keep my mind clear by 50 let alone 80..

Posted by baro-san on 12-06-11 06:23 AM:

Quote from Gostanner:

I think Jack wearing his hair in a ponytail in his 80's ...

You seem to get pretty desperate. It's time to forget about all this, and go on with your life.

Posted by TIKITRADER on 12-06-11 11:29 PM:

Quote from Joe Doaks:

Tike, I don't trade ES, but it took me about five minutes to crudely translate how I trade NQ on one-second to how to trade ES on five-minute. The presentation lacks eelegance, because I hacked it out quickly, but it gets the point across. If the study is all red or red bracketing orange, short. If the study is all green or green bracketing orange, long. The ESignal script is about 20 SLOCs long. The snapshoit is overnight data, PST.

One of your larger charts Nice work. You have captured the moves well. I have seen you do this previously and it really was impressive not being sarcastic.
How is it in real time ?

Posted by Joe Doaks on 12-07-11 12:25 AM:

One of your larger charts Nice work. You have captured the moves well. I have seen you do this previously and it really was impressive not being sarcastic.
How is it in real time ?

Whatever you saw before was different. I change systems faster than a whore changes her drawers. The SCT crowd long ago concluded that I am ineducable, far too stupid, not to mention lazy, to learn SCT. But aperiodically I try to emulate SCT using whatever my systeme du jour is, of course with a ridiculously small SLOC count to show how overly complex SCT is. Alas, this latest emulation is not very good. Attached is the five minute chart of the regular session. This works like a hose on one second, but deteriorates badly on longer time frames. My grand theory of all systems is that S/R or news or insider trading give price a kick in the ass quite evident on a one second chart, and that price meanders semi-predictably thereafter until it gets another kick. That's why I live on one-second, and that is what my current system is, a kick detector. So I tear what little hair I have out when you all post five-minute charts. Aaaarrrrgggghhhh! To me that would be like taking my glasses off and standing down in my living room and looking up at the screen reflected in the study mirror. (I live in a double wide, but I stacked them to rent a cheaper patch of gravel in the trailer park.)

Posted by TIKITRADER on 12-07-11 01:44 AM:

Quote from Joe Doaks:

Whatever you saw before was different. I change systems faster than a whore changes her drawers.

Hold on to these whore drawers Joe, looks like you picked off something good.

Keep it up. Whores like it that way

Posted by pepdegree on 12-07-11 01:50 AM:

Brown paper packages tied up with strings
These are a few of my favorite things

Posted by SK0 on 12-07-11 03:04 AM:

Jack Hershey

Wow, I would probably never figure that out. Thanks so much.

So, we have three triad cases down. What are the other three alternative triad cases that the first element is limited to D or C and the middle is not D or C? C Trending C? Or C Parallel D? Or D Parallel D? Or on speculative spirit, something to do with Entwine or Away? Do the "two-line" triad cases apply to the Fast and Slow Stochastic indicators?

TIA.

Quote from jack hershey:

As you look at monitoring and analyzing several fractals, it is important to know where you are on your trading fractal.

The faster fractal is having three moves for each move on the trading fractal.

As you go through the succession of the 3:1 ratio, you see legs of the trading fractal more or less pause as the faster fractal is doing its non dominant middle leg. So at this time there is no crossover by the fast line of the slow line. There is convergence and a minimum and then divergence.

All of this tells you to hold through the non dom faster fractal move.

When using indicators to trade, once their defaults afford proper synchronization, then you can read several fractals on the indicators.

A very important thing is to mentally evelop the skills to "read" two line indicators as leading indicators. This skill is gained by learning the OOE of each fractal on the two lines; then you adjust the OOE to be read just as you add a phase angle to a sinusoid. Two line indicators have a lot of signals and each sunset applied to the OOE of each of the nested fractals.

As a trader's skill increases, he considers trading more frequently than FTT to FTT. If he has watched the two line indicators with sensitiviety, he can easily switch to more frequent trading.

Elsewhere there is a thread on effectiveness on several different approaches and strategies. There you see a yield per 100K for a combo of several divisions (meaning approaches and markets). The organization makes 11 dollars a minute over a year using RTH's in the markets it plays.

When you look at one account in ES and do point to point trading, the account only makes 3 to 4 dollars a minute. Then you can consider the NFA amateur limits of individual person's accounts for amateurs (15). This means an amateur can make about 45 to 60 dollars a minute on the limited accounts he can trade on one exchange. Each of the 15 accounts can trade several exchanges simultaineously in each country. As a day passes, RTH's begin and end in different countries. For example South America is East of the US by half a day in RTH's terms. european Exchanges preceded both SA and the US. Asian markets cycle ahead of European markets. Roughly speaking by using Colo and having local credit based on central capitalization, you can at least triple the minutely rate of 45 to 60 dollars a minute as an amateur.

All of the above only applies to intraday trading market paces which have relatively low account balances. For position trading, each account is 5 times larger And makes much less money velocity and for SSR the capital is unlimited but there is a very low money velocity ofeten meaured over weeks and months.

Two line indicators work for all liquid markets. Liquidity is a minimum market requirement. Making money by monitoring and analysis is only related to the market's pace and the duration of trend segment in a given trading fractal.

Basically, you only build your mind once. BUT it is also true that you have only one opportunity to build your mind.

Full differentiation is only dependent on doing drills to obtain the pieces of inference. The mind does two things for you. It arranges the pieces in a logical spectrum. Then where weaknesses exist, the mind surfaces questions to be drilled upon to bring the spectrum into balance.

Most people deny themselves the once in a lifetime opportunity. Their way of growing in a given convention slowly squeezes out the opportunity. On.Target is a good person to read to understand how this divorce from opportunity takes place. He avoided it by growing in one of the acceptable conventions. His organization would not be limited to 11 dollars a minute for RTH annually.

If a person wishes he can marry the two line theory to "The Pattern". I use 10 to 12 leading indicators of the fractal I am trading. It is possible to invent about as many leading indicators as you wish.

Markets are basically timeless. They have participant operating rules. Collectively, all the participants in a given market have this timeless participating characteristic. It fit under the heading of Human Nature. Humans have learned to harness Science to work for them and to define, intimately, the working of Nature. The markets all fit into this realm of study and examination.

So the market, for me, are part of my supply chain. I simply extract the full offer of the markets continually. Anyone can look at the relationship of the market's offer and the performance of PEP, the paradigm best used, for extracting capital from their operating pools.

Why doesn't betting work? It is good to know this.

Posted by Joe Doaks on 12-07-11 03:13 AM:

Hold on to these whore drawers Joe, looks like you picked off something good.

Keep it up. Whores like it that way

Yep. Just like SCT. Works great if you ignore when it doesn't.

Posted by nkhoi on 12-07-11 06:18 AM:

...Jack was banned by Baron 10 years ago? ...

jack hershey

Registered: Feb 2003

Posted by Xspurt on 12-07-11 08:36 AM:

Jack is either a great entertainer and hypnotist OR the worlds greatest living trader. Let the readers decide for themselves which they believe for belief is Jack's most stringent demand (in keeping with all great hypnotists and traders).

A guy I know trades the daily limit on the ES holding 20,000 cars in a single trade and he day trades in and out. He can't trade as well as Jack nor is he much good at entertaining either.

His method is pretty simple but he believes in it and that is his key. If you want to be a Jack detractor then the only fair way is to show you know what you are talking about and start up a trading thread showing the proper way to trade or leave Jack to do what he does best.

Personally I think Jack is great at what he does.

__________________
Xspurt

Posted by Xspurt on 12-07-11 01:05 PM:

Quote from UncleSanders:

Do you think Jack lets his hair down when having sex or does he pony up?

You should be very grateful for Jack. He gives your life meaning and purpose. Without Jack you'd have nothing to offer, nothing to post.

However your obsession is unhealthy and is screwing up your mind. Try and imagine what life would be like if you could trade - it would give you another focus and perhaps wean you off Jack.

Start up a How-I-Trade thread and help others. Jack might even help!

__________________
Xspurt

Posted by RCG Trader on 12-07-11 02:16 PM:

Quote from Xspurt:

You should be very grateful for Jack. He gives your life meaning and purpose. Without Jack you'd have nothing to offer, nothing to post.

However your obsession is unhealthy and is screwing up your mind. Try and imagine what life would be like if you could trade - it would give you another focus and perhaps wean you off Jack.

Start up a How-I-Trade thread and help others. Jack might even help!

He is the starter of A Simple Profitable Method. But Jack was dominating these boards back then, before they moved to TL. T28 never recovered from that.

Posted by Joe Doaks on 12-07-11 02:18 PM:

Quote from nkhoi:

Yes. At about the same time as Wiles Welder.

Posted by RCG Trader on 12-07-11 02:23 PM:

Someone who I have on ignore has replied to this thread.

My parameters for this thread are: if you have something negative to say, without having first dug into the methods, you are on ignore. I do not even bother to read your posts past the first sentence.

JH has worked tirelessly for a long time to give people a way to view the markets. Anyone who does not give this a fair hearing gets the ignore button.

Have a nice day.

Posted by Joe Doaks on 12-07-11 03:07 PM:

Someone who I have on ignore has replied to this thread.

My parameters for this thread are: if you have something negative to say, without having first dug into the methods, you are on ignore. I do not even bother to read your posts past the first sentence.

JH has worked tirelessly for a long time to give people a way to view the markets. Anyone who does not give this a fair hearing gets the ignore button.

Have a nice day.

So we give him credit for the good old college try of "working tirelessly?" While Jack has made some few good observations, the vast majority of his oeuvre is errant nonsense. Uncountable noobs here have been led ass-tray by his gookledegobb, and we have every two years or so a well-documented case of one who tried and crashed and burned. But worse, persons of low or no character have been discouraged from trying trading by Jack's pious insistence that a successful trader must be a modern day Knight Templar.

Posted by nkhoi on 12-07-11 03:27 PM:

Quote from Joe Doaks:

Yes. At about the same time as Wiles Welder.

good to see you back I am not so thrilled with other guy, too sane!

Posted by Joe Doaks on 12-07-11 03:42 PM:

Quote from nkhoi:

good to see you back I am not so thrilled with other guy, too sane!

As always, you are too kind. Since Jack is so good at misleading people unintentionally, all that is left for me is to do so with intent. If fools believe in SCT, then why not tempt them to believe it can be done in 50 EFS SLOCs or less?

Posted by nkhoi on 12-07-11 06:09 PM:

You sound so desperate to convince us

who is 'us'?

Posted by innersky on 12-07-11 06:34 PM:

If one has been led astray by Jack or anyone posting on an internet forum, the that's ones own damn fault.

Really, grow up.

Quote from Joe Doaks:

So we give him credit for the good old college try of "working tirelessly?" While Jack has made some few good observations, the vast majority of his oeuvre is errant nonsense. Uncountable noobs here have been led ass-tray by his gookledegobb, and we have every two years or so a well-documented case of one who tried and crashed and burned. But worse, persons of low or no character have been discouraged from trying trading by Jack's pious insistence that a successful trader must be a modern day Knight Templar.

Posted by TIKITRADER on 12-07-11 07:00 PM:

Quote from Joe Doaks:

As always, you are too kind. Since Jack is so good at misleading people unintentionally, all that is left for me is to do so with intent. If fools believe in SCT, then why not tempt them to believe it can be done in 50 EFS SLOCs or less?

I believe you have captured the essence in less than 20 lines... probably 19 more than necessary..
I consider myself an expert in hindsight analysis, annotating after the fact, remarkable ability to tell you the outcome of yesterdays charts. With this strong background I would like to offer my assistance if ever you need it.

Posted by Joe Doaks on 12-07-11 09:18 PM:

A stimulating exercise, not unlike a red pepper enema. The chart shown is NQ. Alas, it doesn't work nearly as well for ES. But a successful emulation of all the nasty whipsaws in SCT.

Posted by MarketMasher on 12-07-11 09:27 PM:

For those most knowledgeable about JH's method - whom would you most compare him to as a successful trader?

Jesse Livermore?
Warren Buffet?
George Soros?
Paul Tudor Jones?
_________?

Who is closest in comparison with his success?

Posted by RCG Trader on 12-07-11 10:11 PM:

Quote from MarketMasher:

For those most knowledgeable about JH's method - whom would you most compare him to as a successful trader?

Jesse Livermore?
Warren Buffet?
George Soros?
Paul Tudor Jones?
_________?

Who is closest in comparison with his success?

Jack has not jumped of a bridge, so it's not livermore.
Jack had not hit an epic home run, so it's not Soros.
Jack has not accumulated a billion dollars so it's not Buffet.
That leaves Paul Jones. Paul uses TA, to the point of using Gann and Elliot.

Between these four, I have to say, Paul Jones, if you must have an answer.

Posted by TIKITRADER on 12-08-11 12:04 AM:

tweak it the call it ... the _Doaksdicator

Posted by MarketMasher on 12-08-11 01:16 AM:

Ooooo! Oooo! I have a chart like that!!

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/62/pinkyblue.png/

It's called the PinkyBlue System (developed by Pinky of Pinky and the Brain - the REAL genius!)

Buy on Blue and Sell on Pink! It's almost as easy as Red Light/Green Light! (I miss those WizeTrade Infomercials ) Pinky says follow with a stop like a mouse follows cheese! (whatever that means...)

Posted by TIKITRADER on 12-08-11 01:56 AM:

Quote from MarketMasher:

Ooooo! Oooo! I have a chart like that !!

My apologies, I should have quoted JD. Its joe doaks chart. His indicator on it I just annotated over it.

Posted by MarketMasher on 12-08-11 02:58 AM:

My apologies, I should have quoted JD. Its joe doaks chart. His indicator on it I just annotated over it.

That's ok. No problem. I understand.

It seems a bit busy though. That's the genius of Pinky. Pinky says that mazes are for rats. Never call a mouse a rat. He is easily offended.

Posted by Joe Doaks on 12-08-11 03:11 AM:

tweak it the call it ... the _Doaksdicator

A brilliant ratiocination! Tomorrow I'll give you the ES version. Not so easy to rationalize.

Posted by Joe Doaks on 12-08-11 03:16 AM:

Well, I didn't think it would chart this late at night, but here it is.

Posted by MarketMasher on 12-08-11 03:57 AM:

Nice colours. Pink. Blue. Pink. Blue.....

I have fewer. I may be short-changed on colours. Also lines. Definitely short-changed on lines...

"Make things as simple as possible - but no simpler." A. Einstein.

Pinky says there is genius in simplicity. And that cottage cheese isn't really cheese.

Posted by v34rm on 12-08-11 12:18 PM:

Quote from MarketMasher:

For those most knowledgeable about JH's method - whom would you most compare him to as a successful trader?

Jesse Livermore?
Warren Buffet?
George Soros?
Paul Tudor Jones?
_________?

Who is closest in comparison with his success?

he he he

Posted by MarketMasher on 12-08-11 01:25 PM:

Quote from v34rm:

he he he

That was a serious question. I also left a blank for whomever else might be a closer comparison (Ed Seykota? Larry Williams? Bruce Kovner? Steve Cohen?)

There are names that are known because eventually the buzz gets around with things that are publicly traded that somebody is a mover-n-shaker. (You probably get 1st class servicing at that point too).

So I would expect JH's name to be placed among the pantheon of names that are known in the business. Do the people on the floor at CME or NYSE know of him?

I'm pretty sure most people have heard of Pinky of Pinky and the Brain...

Posted by v34rm on 12-08-11 04:30 PM:

Quote from MarketMasher:

That was a serious question. I also left a blank for whomever else might be a closer comparison (Ed Seykota? Larry Williams? Bruce Kovner? Steve Cohen?)

There are names that are known because eventually the buzz gets around with things that are publicly traded that somebody is a mover-n-shaker. (You probably get 1st class servicing at that point too).

So I would expect JH's name to be placed among the pantheon of names that are known in the business. Do the people on the floor at CME or NYSE know of him?

I'm pretty sure most people have heard of Pinky of Pinky and the Brain...

I am the man not Hershey......

Posted by TIKITRADER on 12-09-11 10:23 PM:

I need Jack for the PRP Time travel machine.
Where'd he go ????

Jack's the man ... We need him back ....

Posted by bwolinsky on 12-09-11 10:35 PM:

Quote from Wide Tailz:

Not that it is anyone's business, but this point is valid. There was a big income behind that bill.

No there wasn't. He owed backtaxes on property. It wasn't income, but a bunch years cheating the system out of property taxes.

You'll need to dig up the post where this was explained because I do not keep track of nonsense like that.

__________________
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Wall Street

Posted by bwolinsky on 12-09-11 10:36 PM:

Quote from DB_sezwhat:

First, I would like to thank all of you that have pm'd me. One of the questions that gets asked is " when to cover and/or reverse?". Today, like every other day provided the answer with CDV of YM.( which as everybody knows is a leading indicator of ES). Pay particular attention to the green bookmarks on CDV.

Most likely you have received no PMs.

__________________
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Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by bwolinsky on 12-09-11 10:38 PM:

Quote from GordonTheGekko:

Some of the comments about Spyderrader being an incredibly poorly dressed ratty guy, Jack in huge debt, Jack not doing an insurance startup, etc. don't really have validity to them. All I hear is the tax lien thing.

Can someone clarify these?

See, tax lien. From property, not income.

__________________
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Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by bwolinsky on 12-09-11 10:43 PM:

Quote from ammo:

seems his threads are a back door into et for all the nutjobs,some guys that dont know bid/ask pile on for the chance to post,there is even one guy in here with an attic full of jack memorabilia,posts his doll,news clippings,national enquirer articles,jack were you in a rock band at one time,maybe they are your old groupies

Ammo, the alias Trader666 has compiled a wonderful list of all of Jack's Insanity. It is absolutely true the claim that he was hired to explore antarctica by the UN to study the effects of global warming.

That is only one of the hilarious tales.

He has the doll there because this crosses the line into lunacy, and I suggest reading that the next time you see it.

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by bwolinsky on 12-09-11 10:46 PM:

Quote from ammo:

i just don't get the constant negativitry towards jack,if you have a system of your own and it works use it,if you cant grasp jacks ignore it,he writes like he writes,walks like he walks, breaths...none of that is going to change,i'm amazed at the tossing of rotten tomatoes this guy gets,some deep message in the human condition beneath it all,do any of the tomato tossers know why they toss or is it a join the crowd ,sheep herd mentality ,thing

The ability to identify validity is all you need. No one but me has provided even a shread of evidence that his method could even be profitable, and I know for a fact he does not use fidelity, therefore, he could not possibly be profitable.

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by DB_sezwhat on 12-09-11 10:48 PM:

Jack,

Are you going to post next years prediction this year?

Posted by bwolinsky on 12-09-11 10:49 PM:

Quote from ammo:

ignore bwol,he's in the midst of disproving himself to himself,you know,break it down,analyze the weaknesses and then rebuild a better engine,doesn't know squat about trading,just theories and math,how to fool himself, ego,all that go from a caterpillar to a butterfly stuff,still in the cocoon,his opinion is invalid even to him

You are a moron.

Download the tick files, load it into ascii, and backtest the strategy and its code. When you have done this, you will cease to be a moron.

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by ammo on 12-09-11 10:51 PM:

not smart enough to do all that,stupidly,i just trade whats in front of me,the shortcut for dummies

Posted by bwolinsky on 12-09-11 10:52 PM:

Quote from bwolinsky:

This is utter gibberish! Just gibberish! Do you have the program?

I want to see your chart. Be sure you've marked your entries and please show me how the price is breaking below its pv.

This never happened.

__________________
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Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by bwolinsky on 12-09-11 10:54 PM:

Quote from baro-san:

Nobody can demonstrate that Hershey's method doesn't work. They just show they can't get it.

No, but I am absolutely the only one who posted his backtests, code, and the right data, so go look it up.

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by ammo on 12-09-11 10:58 PM:

Quote from bwolinsky:

No, but I am absolutely the only one .

Still listening to the ego,got to drown that thing bo,it's like the string on a yo yo,cut it and your free,hang on to it and your in the center of a finite circle,out to the fence and back to the center, that you don't dare step outside of

Posted by bwolinsky on 12-09-11 11:01 PM:

Quote from bwolinsky:

I need to re-emphasize that every part of the program you'll need to backtest his method is in these threads. Read them, code em up, then come back to me with a chart of your entries.

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by ammo on 12-09-11 11:09 PM:

bo .its just channel trading, refined after years of study,what's so hard to understand,jack studied it and understands it better than those who haven't,not much different than what you are trying to accomplish,take a piece of the market and try to find out how it was constructed,break it down,put it back together , and try to figure where it's going in advance

Posted by bwolinsky on 12-10-11 12:09 AM:

Quote from ammo:

bo .its just channel trading, refined after years of study,what's so hard to understand,jack studied it and understands it better than those who haven't,not much different than what you are trying to accomplish,take a piece of the market and try to find out how it was constructed,break it down,put it back together , and try to figure where it's going in advance

That is not a backtest, and there are neither entries nor exits marked on that chart.

What you've posted is utterly useless, and also part of this farce. You might as well tell me you bought at the exact low and sold at the exact high today.

Channel trading does not work because the price levels fluctuate too much and eventually move out of the channel.

There is no evidence that Jack Hershey's method does this. Unless there were trades on that chart, you're lost, ammo.

As an RIA Rep and CTA I simply don't understand the notion that I don't trade for a living, because I do. If I thought Jack Hershey's Fraud Method worked, I'd be using it, but as it was, I had technical difficulties in my walk forward, and that's unfortunate because I do not and probably will not ever have access to Wealth Lab Pro ever again.

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by bwolinsky on 12-10-11 12:12 AM:

Quote from ammo:

Still listening to the ego,got to drown that thing bo,it's like the string on a yo yo,cut it and your free,hang on to it and your in the center of a finite circle,out to the fence and back to the center, that you don't dare step outside of

No, until I see backtests, performance summaries, profit factors, and win percentages, it's a scam, a fraud, and Jack Hershey is a charlatan.

Without these, you have zero scientific evidence and are relying on faith.

You can't fool me, because Jack is a fool for calling Multicharts a toy. His method is laughable and I'm telling you to go see it, get killed, and find out.

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by ammo on 12-10-11 01:09 AM:

Posted by R. Raskolnikov on 12-10-11 02:18 AM:

\$3500 is decent change, but nothing to brag about.

Quote from bwolinsky:

First off, I don't trade on ego or emotion. I trade on quantitative analysis, and only quantitative analysis.

If you are convinced that I do not trade, I made over 3,500 fucking dollars yesterday. How much did you make?

Posted by bwolinsky on 12-10-11 02:23 AM:

\$3500 is decent change, but nothing to brag about.

In a day?

Well it's not my life's goal of consistently banking \$256,625 per day, but it's a start.

I know ammo didn't make that much yesterday but he can say anything.

My clients in total made way more than me, but have much larger accounts.

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by ammo on 12-10-11 03:47 AM:

Quote from bwolinsky:

In a day?

Well it's not my life's goal of consistently banking \$256,625 per day, but it's a start.

I know ammo didn't make that much yesterday but he can say anything.

My clients in total made way more than me, but have much larger accounts.

made 10.6k yesterday on 5 trades, lost 212 today,your right,your right,always right,the world's full of morons, thank god you're here to save us from our stupidity in our time of need,....me and my ego ,leggo a my eggo

Posted by ammo on 12-10-11 03:48 AM:

Quote from bwolinsky:

The ability to identify validity is all you need. No one but me has provided even a shread of evidence that his method could even be profitable, and I know for a fact he does not use fidelity, therefore, he could not possibly be profitable.

of course you were right about htis

Posted by ammo on 12-10-11 03:49 AM:

Quote from bwolinsky:

No there wasn't. He owed backtaxes on property. It wasn't income, but a bunch years cheating the system out of property taxes.

You'll need to dig up the post where this was explained because I do not keep track of nonsense like that.

and i know you have a friend high up in the irs and verified this,good work,right again

Posted by ammo on 12-10-11 03:50 AM:

Quote from bwolinsky:

Most likely you have received no PMs.

you asked the mods before making this statement, right again

Posted by ammo on 12-10-11 03:51 AM:

Quote from bwolinsky:

Ammo, the alias Trader666 has compiled a wonderful list of all of Jack's Insanity. It is absolutely true the claim that he was hired to explore antarctica by the UN to study the effects of global warming.

That is only one of the hilarious tales.

He has the doll there because this crosses the line into lunacy, and I suggest reading that the next time you see it.

wonderful list,ilike the wording, wise choice, backing the nutjob, right again

Posted by ammo on 12-10-11 03:54 AM:

Quote from bwolinsky:

You are a moron.

Download the tick files, load it into ascii, and backtest the strategy and its code. When you have done this, you will cease to be a moron.

i will never do this so i will always be a moron,right again, all this research and on just one page,your either the biggest bullshitter on et or jc himself,no one can lie this much and believe anyone else believes it so you most be JC,i humbly bow to you ,forgive me,i knew not when addressing you

Posted by RCG Trader on 12-10-11 03:39 PM:

Quote from ammo:

bo's mentor,another et genius, is also right,even if it's only one thing repeated 1000 times year after year after year

Wait....W A I T.

You mean the mods got to banning sybil before I could put it on ignore???

Man, Im, slippin!

Posted by bwolinsky on 12-10-11 04:21 PM:

Quote from ammo:

you asked the mods before making this statement, right again

It is a ploy to try to give credibility to the poster when nobody cares.

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by Fah Q on 12-10-11 11:11 PM:

Who is the crazy that keeps coming here and complaining about Hershey? Whoever he/she is, they've made some sort of life's work out of it.

Posted by Wide Tailz on 12-11-11 02:12 AM:

Quote from bwolinsky:

No there wasn't. He owed backtaxes on property. It wasn't income, but a bunch years cheating the system out of property taxes.

You'll need to dig up the post where this was explained because I do not keep track of nonsense like that.

I notice you accumulate many positions on price weakness, "averaging down" as they say, then dump them all when you're in the green. This would explain your high win rate. I found this out myself trading long options, but didn't have the ballz develop the method further.

I went through my trade history and found the largest wins, by far, were when I kept buying as an option depreciated, as long as the underlying sat on a support. Then one day the price would pop and I'd drop. Kachingo.

Just like "use stops", the old "losers average losers" rule was disproved in real trading. The trick is to have the high probability setup. Sounds like you use a volatility and spread input. I had a neat little price pattern based on in-trend reversals, but it only worked in a bull market.

Posted by TIKITRADER on 12-14-11 03:05 PM:

All kidding aside in some previous posts, just having fun.

Jack, What is the single best log for trading you have written and used yourself for all 81 - 5 minute bars.

Serious question. I have seen many of your log sheets and have used some, but I would like to know which one you have used to detail has been the best for its purpose.

I am interested in one of your really good sheets to log with and to use for some time and see what develops.

Sincere Thank you for any contribution you may post here.

Posted by TIKITRADER on 12-14-11 07:39 PM:

bump ^ and greatly appreciate it.

Posted by MarketMasher on 12-14-11 07:52 PM:

Pinky says:

“Any fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius-and a lot of courage-to move in the opposite direction.”

No, wait....that was Einstein.....

Well, Pinky likes Einstein, so that's ok.....

Posted by Wide Tailz on 12-15-11 02:22 AM:

Quote from MarketMasher:

Pinky says:

ï¿½Any fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius-and a lot of courage-to move in the opposite direction.ï¿½

"any idiot can design a complex system, but it takes a real genius to design a simple system to perform the same task"

Posted by TIKITRADER on 12-15-11 02:41 AM:

Some of Jack's logs here but I was looking for the older style that was blank of filled in data.

Posted by Paddler on 12-17-11 04:12 AM:

Some of Jack's logs here but I was looking for the older style that was blank of filled in data.

Log is personal.

If he logs, he would need to record his MADA in audio. How is he going to write down his log if he takes profits at least twice on each 5-min bar?

Posted by TIKITRADER on 12-17-11 05:19 AM:

Log is personal.

If he logs, he would need to record his MADA in audio. How is he going to write down his log if he takes profits at least twice on each 5-min bar?

His Minions do the logging while he presses 't' ...

Some of his older logs that I no longer see around, Jack would log as many as six lines of information per five minute bar.
Also I do think Jack uses Dragon for speech to text.
It could then be logged at latter time .

Posted by TIKITRADER on 12-17-11 11:55 AM:

Posted by Paddler on 12-17-11 02:07 PM:

His Minions do the logging while he presses 't' ...

Some of his older logs that I no longer see around, Jack would log as many as six lines of information per five minute bar.
Also I do think Jack uses Dragon for speech to text.
It could then be logged at latter time .

I like his finite math in the ten cases of adjacent bars and case mutation of forming bar. It is actually common to MADA and log more than six lines per 5-min bar. The basic symbols of a forming bar could be SYM, FTP, FBP, Stitch, Hitch, OB, Spike and IBGS. Combine the mutating cases with sentiment change, volume change and the point in fast fractal, you will face few surprises. As someone said, it is in the subtle differences.

Posted by Paddler on 12-17-11 03:44 PM:

SYM B/B (V up) >> FTP B/B (V up) >> XB (V up) >>
Spike down >> IBGS R (V up) >> Stitch B/R (V up) >> OB R.
ftt, bo, pt 2 subtle differences LOL

Posted by TIKITRADER on 12-17-11 04:48 PM:

I like his finite math in the ten cases of adjacent bars and case mutation of forming bar. It is actually common to MADA and log more than six lines per 5-min bar. The basic symbols of a forming bar could be SYM, FTP, FBP, Stitch, Hitch, OB, Spike and IBGS. Combine the mutating cases with sentiment change, volume change and the point in fast fractal, you will face few surprises. As someone said, it is in the subtle differences.

You know a little too much for a few posts under your belt...

Who do you work for ?

Where does your intelligence come from ??

How do you feel about agent T28 and have you ever worked alongside him ??????

I work for ET - Central Intelligence, division 3x D-r. So you never knew intelligence was abound on ET ? ... Our mission is a success. It is exactly how we wanted to appear.

hee hee thanks for the posts... great stuff, seriously
I want to pick up on this later when I get back

Posted by RCG Trader on 12-17-11 05:43 PM:

You know a little too much for a few posts under your belt...

Who do you work for ?

Where does your intelligence come from ??

How do you feel about agent T28 and have you ever worked alongside him ??????

I work for ET - Central Intelligence, division 3x D-r. So you never knew intelligence was abound on ET ? ... Our mission is a success. It is exactly how we wanted to appear.

hee hee thanks for the posts... great stuff, seriously
I want to pick up on this later when I get back

Nice call, it's sybil. It shows up every weekend.

Posted by R. Raskolnikov on 12-17-11 08:06 PM:

More often than that!

But it takes near zero effort to get rid of that trash, and all remnants of his/her existence each time he/she comes out to whine.

Nice call, it's sybil. It shows up every weekend.

Posted by Paddler on 12-18-11 01:48 AM:

You know a little too much for a few posts under your belt...

Who do you work for ?

Where does your intelligence come from ??

How do you feel about agent T28 and have you ever worked alongside him ??????

I work for ET - Central Intelligence, division 3x D-r. So you never knew intelligence was abound on ET ? ... Our mission is a success. It is exactly how we wanted to appear.

hee hee thanks for the posts... great stuff, seriously
I want to pick up on this later when I get back

LOL, you think I am talking nonsense and categorize me as a troll? No wonder you can't undersand why log is personal and why a bar is logged six lines or more.

Do not just "read" what the master wrote. Think and question several times over a sufficiently long period. Otherwise, one will easily turn into a frustrated stroll or a numbed daft. The various logs you saw were actually training tools for the master to illustrate his "points" at particular times and our job is to understand the concepts behind the logs and convert (modify) them into personally useful tools. For a bar to take six or more lines to log, I can tell that you have little idea about the cases other than the simple obvious answers from the master. Try harder to see the subtle differences in the PV sequences.

Good luck.

Sybil? Trash? What a fool! LOL

Posted by bwolinsky on 12-18-11 01:57 AM:

LOL, you think I am talking nonsense and categorize me as a troll? No wonder you can't undersand why log is personal and why a bar is logged six lines or more.

Do not just "read" what the master wrote. Think and question several times over a sufficiently long period. Otherwise, one will easily turn into a frustrated stroll or a numbed daft. The various logs you saw were actually training tools for the master to illustrate his "points" at particular times and our job is to understand the concepts behind the logs and convert (modify) them into personally useful tools. For a bar to take six or more lines to log, I can tell that you have little idea about the cases other than the simple obvious answers from the master. Try harder to see the subtle differences in the PV sequences.

Good luck.

Sybil? Trash? What a fool! LOL

There is no math here, you juvenile idiot, and tiki is kind of playing both sides some of the time, but I assure you this thread is completely devoid of quantitative logic as Jack does not actually ever give that, and that's part of the charade.

If you classify anything here as math then you probably don't even have a college degree.

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by bwolinsky on 12-18-11 02:06 AM:

Quote from Wide Tailz:

I notice you accumulate many positions on price weakness, "averaging down" as they say, then dump them all when you're in the green. This would explain your high win rate. I found this out myself trading long options, but didn't have the ballz develop the method further.

I went through my trade history and found the largest wins, by far, were when I kept buying as an option depreciated, as long as the underlying sat on a support. Then one day the price would pop and I'd drop. Kachingo.

Just like "use stops", the old "losers average losers" rule was disproved in real trading. The trick is to have the high probability setup. Sounds like you use a volatility and spread input. I had a neat little price pattern based on in-trend reversals, but it only worked in a bull market.

My methods, especially my pairs trading arbitrage trades have been significantly enhanced with the method of price physics.

I've said this in a number of threads and if you don't understand that what I am doing in my trades is not simply because it has moved against me but because you buy dips sell rallies and if you aren't doing that, let's say you trade Hershey fraud method, you won't ever make any significant amounts of money.

I buy on weakness and know that mean reversion is likely, so with the aid of my quantitative measures it is not simply that I've identified weakness but that my pairs also identifies strengths and fades those rallies.

If you are not selling when the market's rising and buying when the markets falling then you can't ever be profitable. Sure you can play momentum the way Jack's Fraud Method does but don't think I do and post backtests just to demonstrate my methods because if your takeaway is that I average down or average up with shorts then you're mistaken about what my indicators which identify prime support and resistance levels are pricing in those pricing anomalies and exploiting them to our fullest advantage.

I'm not buying and averaging down. I buy on weakness because historically it has been shown to be extremely profitable. I hope you understand weakness is a sign that the market has become more undervalued, and vice versa rallies are a sign of strength that the market has become more overvalued and if that doesn't make sense to you I'm sure it will at least to the traders who know how to trade and have seen those pricing patterns for years now.

I'd be interested in hearing what you have right now for your indicators, but I'm sure you haven't backtested them at a portfolio level.

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by TIKITRADER on 12-18-11 02:36 AM:

LOL, you think I am talking nonsense and categorize me as a troll? No wonder you can't undersand why log is personal and why a bar is logged six lines or more.

Do not just "read" what the master wrote. Think and question several times over a sufficiently long period. Otherwise, one will easily turn into a frustrated stroll or a numbed daft. The various logs you saw were actually training tools for the master to illustrate his "points" at particular times and our job is to understand the concepts behind the logs and convert (modify) them into personally useful tools. For a bar to take six or more lines to log, I can tell that you have little idea about the cases other than the simple obvious answers from the master. Try harder to see the subtle differences in the PV sequences.

Good luck.

Sybil? Trash? What a fool! LOL

You speak of the Master with such knowledge... Could it be ...

Is this you Master ?
Is this you , my true Master ???

The joy ... so overwhelming

Posted by Paddler on 12-18-11 03:09 AM:

You speak of the Master with such knowledge... Could it be ...

Nope! I am a lurker, alone. Disappointed?

Posted by Paddler on 12-18-11 03:26 AM:

Quote from bwolinsky:
There is no math here, you juvenile idiot, and tiki is kind of playing both sides some of the time, but I assure you this thread is completely devoid of quantitative logic as Jack does not actually ever give that, and that's part of the charade.

If you classify anything here as math then you probably don't even have a college degree.

Be happy to live in your matrix. I am sure you can make some bucks.

Math or no math, it is up to me to figure out and to choose. We all are adults and I hope you know the meaning of adult. I find happiness in my matrix of finite math. Now, wish me well.

Posted by TIKITRADER on 12-18-11 03:28 AM:

Nope! I am a lurker, alone. Disappointed?

Paddllurker, what is it that brings you to ' questions for the master'
When it is answers that of which you provide ?

Posted by Joe Doaks on 12-18-11 02:15 PM:

LOL, you think I am talking nonsense and categorize me as a troll? No wonder you can't undersand why log is personal and why a bar is logged six lines or more.

Do not just "read" what the master wrote. Think and question several times over a sufficiently long period. Otherwise, one will easily turn into a frustrated stroll or a numbed daft. The various logs you saw were actually training tools for the master to illustrate his "points" at particular times and our job is to understand the concepts behind the logs and convert (modify) them into personally useful tools. For a bar to take six or more lines to log, I can tell that you have little idea about the cases other than the simple obvious answers from the master. Try harder to see the subtle differences in the PV sequences.

Good luck.

Sybil? Trash? What a fool! LOL

I always figured the Hershey foule watched five minutes because it took them that long to figure out what the market is doing. As to subleties, there is only time, bid, ask, last and size. Anything more is fevered imagination. What is hard about that?

Posted by TIKITRADER on 12-18-11 02:40 PM:

Quote from Pekanpistach:

Over here dopey..

Are you guys just always wrong?

Great to see ET back to normal

Posted by Wide Tailz on 12-18-11 07:16 PM:

Quote from bwolinsky:

My methods.......

Thanks for that.

Just relax....... I buy weakness after it starts to get strong and sell strength after it starts to get weak.

I've been thinking of averaging down long calls when the underlying is getting less volatile, sitting on a moving average, while another moving average curls up into a certain shape, along with a certain momentum indicator........ It's worked great in the past but I had no way of backtesting the price of callz

Posted by bwolinsky on 12-18-11 07:30 PM:

Quote from parametrichypo:

Great post! Most want him to hand deliver the "secret" without doing any of the work. Jack "points" you in the right direction or more accurately 'to the left of the right" and its up to the individual to do or to not do. The "not do's" painstakingly look at one second charts all day. Dumb Ass Texans...OOPS

Smart money is long.

Or there is no secret but the code Scottd and I created, with mine having the only profitable backtest.

A 50 line method is not anything but a curve fit even if you do get profitable results. There is no method outlined in this thread, therefore you couldn't derive anything related to the profitability of his system here.

These diagrams and chicken scratch do not provide any quantitative logic and if you're into being mislead have on with the Hen's Writings.

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by ammo on 12-18-11 07:50 PM:

Quote from bwolinsky:

with mine having the only profitable backtest.

ME is still the central point in the majority of your post's,no matter what system you come up with, this ME weakness takes all traders down,you need to work on it now,not someday

Posted by bwolinsky on 12-18-11 07:57 PM:

Quote from ammo:

ME is still the central point in the majority of your post's,no matter what system you come up with, this ME weakness takes all traders down,you need to work on it now,not someday

Jack Hershey's method has already been backtested and brought to light for over 3 years now.

Reference the thread from the rant, gather the data in the thread, backtest his method using that data, and then come talk to me.

Someday? It's been over 3 years now.

And, yes, me, because I have done more to test his strategies than all these other nothing aliases ever have. If you want the method, it's there, and if you don't understand why data plays such a vital role in determining profitability it's how I know who the clueless in the Jack Hershey threads are, which is nearly all of them that haven't outputted performance metrics like mine in those threads, or anything like win percentage, profit factors, APR's, or the typical performance chartscript wealth lab has including APD stats. If you're not finding those statistics here it's because I'm the only one who ever did them, and, thus, having not seen anybody else with anything resembling profitable backtests of his method the poor souls who get attached to Hershey by reading his mumbo jumbo really need to get a life, and just read the thread that actually has already debated and put to rest the Jack Hershey Fraud Method, which includes rampant obfuscation and practically no substance or even anything with what every trader wants to know which is how profitable his system is.

It's not profitable enough for me to want to use it, and as far as it paying off the national debt a trader must earn enough money to make it worth their time to earn that much, not depending on the government to lose money with worthless pieces and snippets of bullshit code.

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by ammo on 12-18-11 08:12 PM:

Quote from bwolinsky:

And, yes, me,

Posted by Joe Doaks on 12-18-11 08:42 PM:

Quote from parametrichypo:

Great post! Most want him to hand deliver the "secret" without doing any of the work. Jack "points" you in the right direction or more accurately 'to the left of the right" and its up to the individual to do or to not do. The "not do's" painstakingly look at one second charts all day. Dumb Ass Texans...OOPS

Smart money is long.

A one second chart evolves at the rate of a normal fat old man's heartbeat. The only problem occurs when the market is slow and skips a beat. When that happens I pretend that it is a really good orgasm. As to Jack's point direction, it is straight out of the screen and into the blue. Smart money? On the linesides.

Posted by bwolinsky on 12-18-11 09:02 PM:

Quote from ammo:

All right, ammo.

Please tell me how your Jack Hershey backtests are. I know you don't have any forward tests with it, and until you output data that has any remote similarity to what I've already produced, then you don't know anything about the method and though I feel you're a knowledgable trader hanging onto Jack Herhsey's Fraud Method just to get into an argument with someone who has already backtested it I don't really understand your motivations.

If you'd like to use the method, or can produce performance statistics about it, please do. Until then this thread is another grasp for attention by people wanting to hear Jack Herhsey speak who has no ability to give you straight answers.

I have those answers, and I had those straight answers since 2008. Go look them up, and do your own backtests using the data out of Wealth Lab Pro. When you have done so, only then will you cease to be clueless, because I've done those backtests expecting lunatics attracted to Hershey's pedantic idiosyncracies to learn what actually can produce any evidence of what he's trying to present, and also produce evidence that's entirely scientifically based and in a format most people would expect such a trading strategy to be in.

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by ammo on 12-18-11 10:10 PM:

not trading it,not trying to start an argument,just pointing out a huge character flaw that's behind 99.9% of traders blowing out,you can get rid of it on your own or let the market kick it out of you,final answer,the wall listens better

Posted by RCG Trader on 12-18-11 10:24 PM:

Quote from ammo:

not trading it,not trying to start an argument,just pointing out a huge character flaw that's behind 99.9% of traders blowing out,you can get rid of it on your own or let the market kick it out of you,final answer,the wall listens better

These things come with getting closer the expert / 10,000 hour mark.

I know how bwolinsky trades, as he is an adherent to another one of my mentors. If he in fact does average down, he is breaking a cardinal rule, he will reap the appropriate reward.

Then, just be there to pick up the pieces, if he chooses to come here and share.

Posted by BenzMercedesSL on 12-19-11 01:03 PM:

Quote from jack hershey:

...snip
The cases in two line theory you mention also have two others. These are D max C and C min D. They are as important as the crossover.
...snip

Quote from jack hershey:
As you look at monitoring and analyzing several fractals, it is important to know where you are on your trading fractal.

The faster fractal is having three moves for each move on the trading fractal.

As you go through the succession of the 3:1 ratio, you see legs of the trading fractal more or less pause as the faster fractal is doing its non dominant middle leg. So at this time there is no crossover by the fast line of the slow line. There is convergence and a minimum and then divergence.

All of this tells you to hold through the non dom faster fractal move.

When using indicators to trade, once their defaults afford proper synchronization, then you can read several fractals on the indicators.

A very important thing is to mentally evelop the skills to "read" two line indicators as leading indicators. This skill is gained by learning the OOE of each fractal on the two lines; then you adjust the OOE to be read just as you add a phase angle to a sinusoid. Two line indicators have a lot of signals and each sunset applied to the OOE of each of the nested fractals.
... snip

C min D is "CCD".
D max C is "DDC". It should be the dom leg of the trading fractal, but I found "DDC" could be non-dom.

Did I misunderstand D max C and C min D? Are they triad cases?

28 Sept 2011 chart showed the ideal case of D max C (the FTT of the up TF)

26 Oct 2011 chart showed the non-ideal case of D max C (the D max C was non dom)

Posted by BenzMercedesSL on 12-19-11 01:03 PM:

26 Oct 2011 chart

Posted by TIKITRADER on 12-19-11 02:41 PM:

Sample for a log.

Posted by masterm1ne on 12-19-11 03:42 PM:

Am I the only one that can't get through one of Mr. Hershey's posts without litterally laughing out loud...?

Posted by frenchfry on 12-19-11 04:32 PM:

Quote from masterm1ne:

Am I the only one that can't get through one of Mr. Hershey's posts without litterally laughing out loud...?

Yes, you are the only one.

But that's only because "the others" can't even get through.

Posted by bwolinsky on 12-19-11 11:43 PM:

Quote from ammo:

not trading it,not trying to start an argument,just pointing out a huge character flaw that's behind 99.9% of traders blowing out,you can get rid of it on your own or let the market kick it out of you,final answer,the wall listens better

The feeling is mutual.

As far as this thread's concerned I have his strategy, and have backtested it. It will not ever pay off the national debt or profit anything close, because it is a mediocre excuse for a trading system that if you want to test why Jack's strategies only work on .SPX data and have never worked on ES data then you know where to find the data that does work, and you'll also find his system with more than verbose ranting needed to shut Hershey down with his fraud method of obfuscation.

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by bwolinsky on 12-19-11 11:46 PM:

Quote from frenchfry:

Yes, you are the only one.

But that's only because "the others" can't even get through.

Whatever! I am thinking strongly about posting his system here, but I'd rather people work harder than realizing the rant is all you'd ever need to determine Jack Hershey's Fraud Method's validity.

Seek and you shall find. You won't ever get through to Jack Hershey because he is sly and cunning just like the Devil, and if the Devil's in the details you'd be shocked at how simplistic his method of trading is, and even if you don't want to recognize that I have produced backtests already on his method, I also know that it is out there for people to test themselves but they must do so with the right data and only the data in that epitaph.

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by nkhoi on 12-20-11 01:36 AM:

Quote from bwolinsky:

The feeling is mutual.

As far as this thread's concerned I have his strategy, and have backtested it. It will not ever pay off the national debt or profit anything close, because it is a mediocre excuse for a trading system ...

Posted by baro-san on 12-20-11 03:21 AM:

This thread seems to go nowhere. But, which one does?

Posted by Rationalize on 12-20-11 04:06 AM:

wow, this thread is great training set for my ignore strategy.

Posted by stock777 on 12-20-11 04:23 AM:

Chaz Bono And Jennifer Elia Break Off Engagement

what does Jack think?

__________________
"Those that know ain't saying, and those saying don't know." - E. A. Neumann

A bear since 1958 and proud of it.

Posted by RCG Trader on 12-21-11 03:11 PM:

Quote from bwolinsky:

Whatever! I am thinking strongly about posting his system here, but I'd rather people work harder than realizing the rant is all you'd ever need to determine Jack Hershey's Fraud Method's validity.

Seek and you shall find. You won't ever get through to Jack Hershey because he is sly and cunning just like the Devil, and if the Devil's in the details you'd be shocked at how simplistic his method of trading is, and even if you don't want to recognize that I have produced backtests already on his method, I also know that it is out there for people to test themselves but they must do so with the right data and only the data in that epitaph.

I think is a bit harsh to say Jack the devil. Actually, his writing helped to greatly expand my knowledge base.

U are right his methods are simple, and nothing new, but he never said they were new. His way of communicating is similar to Gann. Easy, but only if you understand the paradigm under which he is writing.

B2R, R2B, how hard is that? Really?

Posted by bwolinsky on 12-22-11 10:43 PM:

I think is a bit harsh to say Jack the devil. Actually, his writing helped to greatly expand my knowledge base.

U are right his methods are simple, and nothing new, but he never said they were new. His way of communicating is similar to Gann. Easy, but only if you understand the paradigm under which he is writing.

B2R, R2B, how hard is that? Really?

None of those acronyms mean anything to me, RCG Trader.

I only work with the fundamental elements of charts: hl, lh, br hh, br ll, and buy, sell, hold.

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by RCG Trader on 12-22-11 10:51 PM:

Quote from bwolinsky:

None of those acronyms mean anything to me, RCG Trader.

I only work with the fundamental elements of charts: hl, lh, br hh, br ll, and buy, sell, hold.

Then......why to you post to this thread??

Posted by bwolinsky on 12-22-11 11:48 PM:

Then......why to you post to this thread??

Because I don't like Jack Hershey.

He's a fraud, and if I lay out his system in simple perl code and give you datasets to backtest with, it astounds me anybody with that kind of evidence staring them in the face wouldn't try to discover whether he's the liar or any of the research I've done on his system can stand the test of time.

It will not, and every time I see him blather psychotically it just annoys me to the point that I will call him out on all of his lies and deceit.

The best case and point is the fool who thinks Hershey's system could ever pay off the national debt. That's false, and a myth perpetuated by Jack.

If you need to know anymore than I have to to tell you how well his systems work, then you can read his epitaph, otherwise, as far as clueless go the herd can follow Hershey, but I already know that it won't end pleasantly for those who do.

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by RCG Trader on 12-23-11 12:18 AM:

Quote from bwolinsky:

Because I don't like Jack Hershey.

He's a fraud, and if I lay out his system in simple perl code and give you datasets to backtest with, it astounds me anybody with that kind of evidence staring them in the face wouldn't try to discover whether he's the liar or any of the research I've done on his system can stand the test of time.

It will not, and every time I see him blather psychotically it just annoys me to the point that I will call him out on all of his lies and deceit.

The best case and point is the fool who thinks Hershey's system could ever pay off the national debt. That's false, and a myth perpetuated by Jack.

If you need to know anymore than I have to to tell you how well his systems work, then you can read his epitaph, otherwise, as far as clueless go the herd can follow Hershey, but I already know that it won't end pleasantly for those who do.

The same could be said about our mutual mentor.

My point is that Jack lays out the mechanics of the market. Will a person make 3 x the daily range every day? NO.

But in a recent newsletter from our mutual mentor, he made a multiple of the daily range. It can be done.

If Jack is fraud, okay. But he does not charge anything. If nothing else, going up his path would newbies what not to do. But almost everyone I have spoken with has derived a benefit from his writings.

The Hershey system itself is based on principles and not hard core rules. Markets are contextual. As time has gone on, I have realized this and come to understand that there is a degree of discretion even in the algo trader. The discretion in the algo trader comes from deciding which markets to apply his algo.

There are several thousand pages on Jack Hershey, he is up there with Gann insomuch as what has been written and how he polarizes people.

You might not like Jack, and that is okay, but I would not discount what he writes. It is a good mental exercise.

Posted by bwolinsky on 12-23-11 12:37 AM:

The same could be said about our mutual mentor.

My point is that Jack lays out the mechanics of the market. Will a person make 3 x the daily range every day? NO.

But in a recent newsletter from our mutual mentor, he made a multiple of the daily range. It can be done.

If Jack is fraud, okay. But he does not charge anything. If nothing else, going up his path would newbies what not to do. But almost everyone I have spoken with has derived a benefit from his writings.

The Hershey system itself is based on principles and not hard core rules. Markets are contextual. As time has gone on, I have realized this and come to understand that there is a degree of discretion even in the algo trader. The discretion in the algo trader comes from deciding which markets to apply his algo.

There are several thousand pages on Jack Hershey, he is up there with Gann insomuch as what has been written and how he polarizes people.

You might not like Jack, and that is okay, but I would not discount what he writes. It is a good mental exercise.

No, the only mental excercises you need to be productive are the ones that let you manipulate code and datasets.

As far as Bill Schamp goes, Herhsey is nothing compared to him.

If Jack wants to teach, he can insert his code anywhere, or you can read mine, because nothing is as annoying as a teacher that never gets to the point, and that's what Herhsey does. He obfuscates even without demonstrating true trading abilities chooses to discuss metaphysical emotions as it relates to trading things like Dom walls; he calls these walls of the dom in some of his posts, and clearly suffers from senility.

I think Hershey would do the world a favor to feature his code before he dies, but since he probably will not, he will just have to pass as a character with a long history on elitetrader.

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by hkrahra on 12-23-11 02:00 AM:

Quote from bwolinsky:

I think Hershey would do the world a favor to feature his code before he dies, but since he probably will not, he will just have to pass as a character with a long history on elitetrader.

I hope this will never happen

May he stay von Däniken for most of you.

Posted by bwolinsky on 12-23-11 02:51 AM:

Quote from hkrahra:

I hope this will never happen

May he stay von Däniken for most of you.

You know the more I hear that I don't understand Jack Hershey's method the more insulted I get.

I completely understand his method, but it's not as robust as he claims. There might be refinements I would have to make to get it to those levels, but 6 month backtests on double leveraged products netted \$90,000 off \$10,000 and if that's what Jack calls a "jump in networth", I do have that method, but I don't like how it is implemented, and if you think I don't understand him, you're completely mistaken, because there is only one thread that debates his methods with the actual performance statistics required to avoid being just another imbecile who takes what that madman says at face value.

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by MarketMasher on 12-23-11 03:02 AM:

Maybe you can claim to make 5x's daily range with no loss.

If you never have to produce anything to make the claim, why not?

Posted by Paddler on 12-23-11 04:41 AM:

Hey, I wish everyone, trolls and cult, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

Want to see something very common? Context: Prior bar sentiment B, forming bar: SYM (V down) >> SYM (V up) >> FTP (V up) >> XB (V up) >> Spike down (V accelerate decelerate) >> XB (V down) till close. Figure out the rest. Nevermind if it does not make sense to you. Tikitrader, this is specially for you.

Don't try above if you are a beginner. Drill on MADA end of bar with nested parallelograms and Jokari Window and IBGS first. If it is still too hard and confusing, try PVT's stock selection and cross trading using quote sheet with 30-min Unusual Volume Correlation Table where all of the trading rules are clearly stated. SCT has no rules if you do not know.

TYVM, JH.

Posted by Paddler on 12-23-11 05:02 AM:

Quote from kurrawurra:
Far more common is Hershey cultists that can't show the money..

Jingle bell, jingle bell, Santa Claus IS coming to your house on Christmas Eve! Pause...I think you prefer Jack Hershey instead.

Jingle bell, jingle bell, Jack Hershey IS coming to your house on Christmas Eve!

Posted by TIKITRADER on 12-23-11 05:06 AM:

Hey, I wish everyone, trolls and cult, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

Want to see something very common? Context: Prior bar sentiment B, forming bar: SYM (V down) >> SYM (V up) >> FTP (V up) >> XB (V up) >> Spike down (V accelerate decelerate) >> XB (V down) till close. Figure out the rest. Nevermind if it does not make sense to you. Tikitrader, this is specially for you.

Don't try above if you are a beginner. Drill on MADA end of bar with nested parallelograms and Jokari Window and IBGS first. If it is still too hard and confusing, try PVT's stock selection and cross trading using quote sheet with 30-min Unusual Volume Correlation Table where all of the trading rules are clearly stated. SCT has no rules if you do not know.

TYVM, JH.

became unbearable...
I must have stepped in shit as my shoes appeared to be covered
In it.
Or maybe I just stepped in your post.

Merry Christmas to you too
Keep the change you filthy animal

Posted by baro-san on 12-23-11 06:14 AM:

Quote from bwolinsky:

You know the more I hear that I don't understand Jack Hershey's method the more insulted I get.

I completely understand his method, but it's not as robust as he claims. ...

I guess you're strictly referring to swing trading quality stocks using Hershey's tweaked MACD and STO. Anyway, one should avoid being so definitive. It may not be the teacher's limitation, but the pupil's.

Posted by hkrahra on 12-23-11 09:05 AM:

Quote from bwolinsky:

You know the more I hear that I don't understand Jack Hershey's method the more insulted I get.

May be you should work harder...

Posted by Wide Tailz on 12-24-11 01:50 AM:

Quote from MarketMasher:

Maybe you can claim to make 5x's daily range with no loss.

If you never have to produce anything to make the claim, why not?

I would be very happy to get .01x the ATR with an 85% win rate at 1-R, every day. I would retire.

Posted by bwolinsky on 12-24-11 07:19 PM:

Quote from baro-san:

I guess you're strictly referring to swing trading quality stocks using Hershey's tweaked MACD and STO. Anyway, one should avoid being so definitive. It may not be the teacher's limitation, but the pupil's.

I have the method, coded the logic and backtested his theories on the only thing it works on: .SPX index options for s&p 500 only available at Fidelity in wealth lab pro. There's no other symbol that can make anywhere near the level of profit jhfm people claim.

Jhfm: Jack Hershey Fraud method.

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by kidPWRtrader on 12-24-11 08:49 PM:

Quote from bwolinsky:

I have the method, coded the logic and backtested his theories on the only thing it works on: .SPX index options for s&p 500 only available at Fidelity in wealth lab pro. There's no other symbol that can make anywhere near the level of profit jhfm people claim.

Jhfm: Jack Hershey Fraud method.

Did you ever code the stock method as taught by Spyder? Hard to imagine an unprofitable variation of that simple system...

Posted by jack hershey on 12-26-11 02:55 AM:

Did you ever code the stock method as taught by Spyder? Hard to imagine an unprofitable variation of that simple system...

Your mother is a millionaire immigrant. you didn't learn from her and we explained to you why you cannot participate in the Tucson office.

Can't you recognize that blowinsky is doing the same thing you are? Phishing and phishing year after year.

The market has principles. They precipitate one pattern.

This complete and full pair of two sets of inferences forms a one-to-one correspondence between observation (Monitoring) and Matching the sets(analysis).

Blowinski has bullshitted himself blind in all his posts.

Trading is simple; it is not rocket science.

Keynes.... Carnap......Mandelbrot.

HS plus the MS leads to a paradigm. Boolean Algebra is the application of Carnap logic theory. All the fractals are rigidly interlocked (you missed Mandelbrot's contribution)

U of A Finance Department bullshitted you blind; most education does simply because getting into the schools is a filtering process of like minds.

Blowinsky didn't even go to a school with any instructors who could think.

Look at the U of A Foundation annual report. They threw out the best money making subcontractor last year. Hayzeus!!! as the Hispanics would say.

Every day SCT makes a multiple of the margin within hours of open.

PVT is on a 4 to 5 day cycle these days.

Cramer's "pretty girls" took four months of his TA to tell him how late he was on point 3 of this Depression (last week some time he dumped the pretty girls).

Your mind is beyond that line in the sand: hang it up before you become "fixated" like blowinski and the B types here in ET. You are done. You decided to not do the work.

The mind works in one way only and there is no eraser.

You MUST do drills to get inference pieces. You did not do drills.

The mind arranges a spectrum of the infererence pieces. You have the incorrect pieces and you mind is powerless to arrange them forever.

If the spectrum has weaknesses, the mind poses questions. Notice you never have and meaningful questiions.

You ask a number one turd if he did something he couldn't do for anything related to trading. this is a meaningless example of your mind's condition.

this turd thinks trader666 did some backtesting. Hayzues!!!! You show you are a simpleton to and do not even know when somthing posted has no statistical significance. Do you even imagine Lo at MIT could calculate statistical significance at the behavioral finance center of MIT? No. no. Lo proves over and over that he cannot.

You are done. It is over for you in this lifetime. Get used to it. It is over for you.

I am being very kind to you in this post. Stop phishing and go away.

Posted by ammo on 12-26-11 04:42 AM:

all i've noticed is that multiple alias guy and passing wind have nothing to contribute so they settled at critics to support a 2 year old's ego,condescension is one of the tools,porous at best,that's a compliment,merry xmas..p.s. i don't trade jack's method,might if i could understand,but we all have to find our way despite all of our shortcomings,so don't take any advice about it being over in this lifetime,b.s.ing,critiqueing pays nada,but it keeps the ego alive,lose that and judge not,you might have enough open mind left to stumble upon ...

Posted by ammo on 12-26-11 04:52 AM:

sorry dude ,i'm not a writer

Posted by ammo on 12-26-11 05:10 AM:

it's a simple channel trading method,it could easily work for the simplest of traders,if jack studied it for 20 yrs ,he would obviously be better at it than the new guy,that system works,after 20 yrs,i don't know how anyone could be broke or losing at it,i know you don't trade it,i just don't understand the obsession with jack,there is no way he could lose with that system

Posted by ammo on 12-26-11 05:14 AM:

how many times and under how many alias's have you posted this..to what end ? http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...502#post3397502

Posted by ammo on 12-26-11 07:03 AM:

http://www.cttm-kenya.com/docs/worm-parasites.pdf number one hershey follower.

Posted by bwolinsky on 12-26-11 06:11 PM:

Spydertrader's scripts were just watchlist generators, and had no entry or exit signals, so they weren't systems.

Jack Hershey Equities scripts on Wealth Lab were well known to that community, but never produced profitable trading results.

Since my entire explanation was the truth, I can see why it would be complained.

Jack Hershey's equities method does not produce profitable results, and never will.

The only method he has that works is on .SPX 5 minute index options bars, and cash cow is coded for all to see if you'd like to read Jack's Epitaph.

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by nkhoi on 12-26-11 09:33 PM:

Quote from bwolinsky:

Spydertrader's scripts were just watchlist generators, and had no entry or exit signals, so they weren't systems.

Jack Hershey Equities scripts on Wealth Lab were well known to that community, but never produced profitable trading results.

Since my entire explanation was the truth, I can see why it would be complained.

Jack Hershey's equities method does not produce profitable results, and never will.

The only method he has that works is on .SPX 5 minute index options bars, and cash cow is coded for all to see if you'd like to read Jack's Epitaph.

you need to do more promo only 60 bother to look at your script since '08

Posted by kidPWRtrader on 12-27-11 12:06 AM:

Quote from jack hershey:

Your mother is a millionaire immigrant. you didn't learn from her and we explained to you why you cannot participate in the Tucson office.

Can't you recognize that blowinsky is doing the same thing you are? Phishing and phishing year after year.

The market has principles. They precipitate one pattern.

This complete and full pair of two sets of inferences forms a one-to-one correspondence between observation (Monitoring) and Matching the sets(analysis).

Blowinski has bullshitted himself blind in all his posts.

Trading is simple; it is not rocket science.

Keynes.... Carnap......Mandelbrot.

HS plus the MS leads to a paradigm. Boolean Algebra is the application of Carnap logic theory. All the fractals are rigidly interlocked (you missed Mandelbrot's contribution)

U of A Finance Department bullshitted you blind; most education does simply because getting into the schools is a filtering process of like minds.

Blowinsky didn't even go to a school with any instructors who could think.

Look at the U of A Foundation annual report. They threw out the best money making subcontractor last year. Hayzeus!!! as the Hispanics would say.

Every day SCT makes a multiple of the margin within hours of open.

PVT is on a 4 to 5 day cycle these days.

Cramer's "pretty girls" took four months of his TA to tell him how late he was on point 3 of this Depression (last week some time he dumped the pretty girls).

Your mind is beyond that line in the sand: hang it up before you become "fixated" like blowinski and the B types here in ET. You are done. You decided to not do the work.

The mind works in one way only and there is no eraser.

You MUST do drills to get inference pieces. You did not do drills.

The mind arranges a spectrum of the infererence pieces. You have the incorrect pieces and you mind is powerless to arrange them forever.

If the spectrum has weaknesses, the mind poses questions. Notice you never have and meaningful questiions.

You ask a number one turd if he did something he couldn't do for anything related to trading. this is a meaningless example of your mind's condition.

this turd thinks trader666 did some backtesting. Hayzues!!!! You show you are a simpleton to and do not even know when somthing posted has no statistical significance. Do you even imagine Lo at MIT could calculate statistical significance at the behavioral finance center of MIT? No. no. Lo proves over and over that he cannot.

You are done. It is over for you in this lifetime. Get used to it. It is over for you.

I am being very kind to you in this post. Stop phishing and go away.

Jack, you have quite incorrectly misinterpreted my response as negativity. I think Spyder's threads detailed an exact method and wasn't phishing anything. By the way, if you ask a few of the posters at TLAB or check the thread you would know I trade the method all by myself (and that is fine, I am only interested in getting better).

I am still interested in the Tucson group, but your response makes it clear I am not welcome. That is ok, have a good day and merry christmas. I still wish your group tremendous success with carrying out your mission.

Posted by kidPWRtrader on 12-27-11 12:24 AM:

Quote from bwolinsky:

Spydertrader's scripts were just watchlist generators, and had no entry or exit signals, so they weren't systems.

Jack Hershey Equities scripts on Wealth Lab were well known to that community, but never produced profitable trading results.

Since my entire explanation was the truth, I can see why it would be complained.

Jack Hershey's equities method does not produce profitable results, and never will.

The only method he has that works is on .SPX 5 minute index options bars, and cash cow is coded for all to see if you'd like to read Jack's Epitaph.

Bwolinsky, I do not believe you have read Spyder's thread judging from this response.

The method most are trading, you havn't coded. I am sure someone has told you this before, but I want to point that out again because many guys are doing PVT and Spyder never claimed the watchlist generator was a system. But, he in fact did summarize the system in a one page post multiple times throughout both the first 2 threads.

Posted by bwolinsky on 12-27-11 12:28 AM:

Bwolinsky, I do not believe you have read Spyder's thread judging from this response.

The method most are trading, you havn't coded. I am sure someone has told you this before, but I want to point that out again because many guys are doing PVT and Spyder never claimed the watchlist generator was a system. But, he in fact did summarize the system in a one page post multiple times throughout both the first 2 threads.

He did release a trading version of it that Trader666 and anybody else who backtests it knows isn't profitable.

PVT is a myth. And I don't know why whenever anybody talks about Jack's method that they always have less than 1000 posts when they do mention in the affirmative to have traded it.

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by bwolinsky on 12-27-11 12:34 AM:

Quote from nkhoi:

you need to do more promo only 60 bother to look at your script since '08

Depending on where that is in the thread, there were later versions I modified, removing particularly the exit on close. So I'd made modifications for it to work.

I don't care how many people have downloaded it, because that is the exact method Scottd wanted to forward test but couldn't because Tradestation's datafeed does not support the ticker symbol it is intended for, and since many probably read that thread, even less understand that that is Jack's method.

They'd understand more if they downloaded that, stuck it into wealth lab, but most traders don't use that product, so my suggestion to them is to take Scottd's cash cow last version and take the Ascii datafiles for the real symbol .SPX 5 minute then analyze whether the backtest is profitable.

This isn't complicated to test a 100% objective method, and as I've tried to emphasize, Fidelity Investments is the only place you can get Wealth Lab, and the only place that has index options data in a continuous form, so if that sounds too hard for you, nothing less should be expected from Hersheyites sticking their heads into the sand whenever evidence to the contrary rears up.

And that is as Scientific as evidence can get. There's no reason to read all the drivel on these message boards. That is the method, and if you aren't convinced, then read my perl code, compare it to scottd's, modify one of the two, and make sure you load the data from an ascii formatted dataset and see if it doesn't reach out to you, because there isn't anyone on here that has ever posted performance statistics data therefore it is out of public domain in the realm of faith based trading, and faith based trading cannot ever be profitable until proven otherwise.

To deny this is to deny the scientific method, and unless kpwrmixer comes up with backtests it's still useless to even debate whether Jack Hershey's method works or not.

You are a useless defender of a senile old man, nkhoi, and since you like to delete evidence what would have made your contribution much better as a moderator is to actually post the link to that thread.

__________________
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Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by nkhoi on 12-27-11 01:16 AM:

Quote from bwolinsky:

....

You are a useless defender of a senile old man, nkhoi, and since you like to delete evidence what would have made your contribution much better as a moderator is to actually post the link to that thread. [/B]

clear evident of you don't understand how ET works

Posted by bwolinsky on 12-27-11 01:49 AM:

Quote from nkhoi:

clear evident of you don't understand how ET works

No, there are heavy handed moderators, and when it comes to Hershey, you are one of them.

The post I made on Christmas Eve was very explicit, not that I used cuss words, but that it got under your skin that I know so much about his method that I can't stand hearing Jack misleading other people.

I'm still waiting on backtests and tradeslists. Without those, this is all fake, except for what I've done and referenced in these threads.

__________________
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Wall Street

Posted by TIKITRADER on 12-27-11 04:01 AM:

Let's talk shop Jack ... This isn't a sleepy shop, no time for siesta.
We are open for business ... then fiesta.
Look in the Windows of the shop, everything on display
This is a cool place to window shop.

Posted by baro-san on 12-27-11 05:25 AM:

Quote from bwolinsky:

... but that it got under your skin that I know so much about his method that I can't stand hearing Jack misleading other people. ...

Would you mind to summarize it here? It really seems that you don't know what you're talking about.

Posted by v34rm on 12-27-11 07:43 AM:

Let's talk shop Jack ... This isn't a sleepy shop, no time for siesta.
We are open for business ... then fiesta.
Look in the Windows of the shop, everything on display
This is a cool place to window shop.

Please notice the Up/Down words , where are the left right .....hahahahaha..... Snake oil salesmen

Posted by Joe Doaks on 12-27-11 10:40 AM:

I keep looking for sideways. Is it on the flip side of the cheatsheet?

Posted by TIKITRADER on 12-27-11 11:23 AM:

Quote from Joe Doaks:

I keep looking for sideways. Is it on the flip side of the cheatsheet?

its a two headed coin. Keep flipping

Posted by TIKITRADER on 12-27-11 11:28 AM:

Quote from v34rm:

Please notice the Up/Down words , where are the left right .....hahahahaha..... Snake oil salesmen

If it would have said increasing and decreasing the secret
would have been given out. Next time bring your secret decoder flashlight to class

Posted by v34rm on 12-27-11 12:36 PM:

If it would have said increasing and decreasing the secret
would have been given out. Next time bring your secret decoder flashlight to class

My secret decoder

It is going Up as it goes along !!!!!!!

Posted by TIKITRADER on 12-27-11 01:23 PM:

Quote from v34rm:

My secret decoder

It is going Up as it goes along !!!!!!!

who knew ? Math is fun

Posted by v34rm on 12-27-11 03:48 PM:

who knew ? Math is fun

Math is fun .... JH is not...

Posted by bwolinsky on 12-27-11 04:35 PM:

Quote from baro-san:

Would you mind to summarize it here? It really seems that you don't know what you're talking about.

There is no other method Jack has besides Cash Cow that's ever been published.

Since Jack likes to trade ES or has put up charts on ES or his followers have, the only symbol that method works on and in is .SPX at Fidelity.

That's the only method that makes a significant enough profit to warrant the banter whenever he talks.

As to the others, there aren't any other threads with backtested performance statistics or tradeslists, so I'm the only one, but others can see what the metrics looked like and until we have more backtests from the method it is futile to even engage a logical discussion about JHFM.

__________________
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Wall Street

Posted by baro-san on 12-27-11 05:03 PM:

As I thought, you're not actually acquainted with Hershey's methods.

You're talking only about somebody else's initial learning experience of Hershey's method for swing trading high quality stocks. No SCT, and no first hand understanding of Hershey's price / volume based method.

Quote from bwolinsky:

There is no other method Jack has besides Cash Cow that's ever been published.

Since Jack likes to trade ES or has put up charts on ES or his followers have, the only symbol that method works on and in is .SPX at Fidelity.

That's the only method that makes a significant enough profit to warrant the banter whenever he talks.

As to the others, there aren't any other threads with backtested performance statistics or tradeslists, so I'm the only one, but others can see what the metrics looked like and until we have more backtests from the method it is futile to even engage a logical discussion about JHFM.

jack hershey

Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 5597

11-21-11 01:58 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from MarketMasher:

I tried on some recent data but my curve doesn't look right.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/97/try01.png/

Shouldn't the curve go parabolic and then stay vertical?

Can you post your successful implementation so I can see?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Start slowly.

Use the one pager for PVT.

It takes about 15 minutes to run a year long test.

To exactly duplicate a past test by Worden Bros staff at TradersExpo, use their drag and drop (Bloxs) to get the logic. Then use a Universe that is available to you like a performance level Universe. Worden used the NAZ 100. They repeated the test since the results exceeded any test they had ever run. They calc'ed the usual stats as well. Sharpe was over 60.

Anyone can use the rules and a Universe. Notice the rules are on the one pager and the criteria for the Universe is stated in the thread that posted trades in advance and then the results for over a year in ET.

Also you can duplicate the failure Trader666 did. He screwed up in several ways as I noted in my critique of his testing failure. Also or even, his test had no statisitical significance it turned out. I do not think he knew this nor does anyone else who posts his faulty chart.

I have invented several trading applications of various paradigms. With regard to all the the above, blowinsky has not done any work so related.

He has examined only the first (beginner level of an approach coded as Cash Cow where I presented some of the intial logic.
subsequent levels of Cash Cow were not made public. They are documenteed in a combo of text, charts, logic flow sheets and Excel logic flow sheets. Blowinsky has seen none of this work.

The Cash Cow was an exercise that we enjoyed doing and it was done to simply create an ATS that used indicators as inputs. All the indicators were customized by using synchronistic defaults for the fractals traded. In Wikipedia I was creditied with revising the MACD and other indicators to the modern world of the PC. Pring, for example, adopted them four years later.

For humor and character assassination reflection, there once appeared on ET a system that didn't work. It had the out of date MACD and used the wrong signal generation. Also the MACD was offset in time artificially. I made a serious mistake in relating to its creator in order to offer suggestions. The person never recovered from what he assigned as the weight of my suggestions (which he deemed criticisms for his own reasons (youth, ignorance, etc, etc...)). I did not make public my suggestions since I felt they might be misinterpreted. Indeed they were.

So in summary, you are not going to be sucessful in trading or creating ATS of various market trading approaches. You will also be unable to create tooling in the form of snippets that increase the degrees of freedom for market analysis. The reason for this limitation(s) you have permanently incurred, have to do with the beliefs you have decided, irreversably, to adopt. Such adoptions have occurred sans reasoning through their potential damaging consequences.

There are two aspects of the mind involved here. One is that the mind does not have an "eraser" function. The second, is that the mind ignores the negative in communicated information.

Walk carefully on the ice gives you one picture.

Don't fall down on the ice gives you another picture.

For trading, your beliefs cannot work to form rational systems of though any longer. Too bad for you.

A lot of this thread deals with Q and A an SCT, an application of PEP. Seamless Continuous Trading replaces the CW mind orientation of the financial industry. Related to markets, what I have designed and have as system is like a foreign language to CW financial industry followers. therefore, it is not likely nor probably possible for a person who has no mind development or mind building from doing work in SCT or PEP to be able to understand anything I espouse.

Covel is a prize example of this impenatrable wall he encountered as a consequence of his faulty belief system. Many people attribute my building the walls. What, in fact, is true is that the walls are carried by those who fail to process my communications. Thus, I get a benefit, that is unearned or at least not costly.

It can be very costly to a person whose mind has been closed for that person to pursue learning about anything he is no longer capable of entertaining.

The standard for accomplishment is the market's offer. All things are measured against this performance level. The term "unbelievable" is one that is used by people who use their personal standard instead of the market's standard. So those people have simply built an artificial and permanent barrier that keeps them out of the potential place of learning how to trade by learning how markets work. You are one of those people who is denied the opportunity to walk through the open door.

Posted by Joe Doaks on 12-27-11 05:35 PM:

Having nothing much better to do in this slow market, as all 25 of my codes comprising some 1700 SLOCs are done, undone, redone, and overdone, I thought to aggravate the Hersheyites with this instructive little scattergram for their uninstructable little scatterbrains. It is the first 32 five minute bars of today's NQ close and volume connected progressively, starting with the lowest point in the chart. X-axis is volume, Y-axis is close. PV relationship? Kiss my ass! Looks more like my relationship with my inlaws.

Posted by Joe Doaks on 12-27-11 06:02 PM:

Let me follow up with my concise view of Jack's contribution to ET. Jack will assert something provocative like "The moon is made of green cheese!" Well, strange, but you research it, and learn something about the true composition of the moon. Next Jack may claim that "The earth is flat!" OK, I'll try out that notion and see what I learn, and I find all the contrary evidence. I have been reading him for almost as long as he has been posting here. Thanks to him, I know a lot of things which are true about trading. And it is ungrateful but comprehensive to point out that few of those truths bear much resemblance to what he posts.

Posted by TIKITRADER on 12-27-11 06:09 PM:

Quote from Joe Doaks:

Having nothing much better to do in this slow market, as all 25 of my codes comprising some 1700 SLOCs are done, undone, redone, and overdone, I thought to aggravate the Hersheyites with this instructive little scattergram for their uninstructable little scatterbrains. It is the first 32 five minute bars of today's NQ close and volume connected progressively, starting with the lowest point in the chart. X-axis is volume, Y-axis is close. PV relationship? Kiss my ass! Looks more like my relationship with my inlaws.

Lsd is cool

Posted by bwolinsky on 12-27-11 06:34 PM:

Lsd is cool

That's hilarious, tiki.

__________________
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Wall Street

Posted by bwolinsky on 12-27-11 06:36 PM:

Quote from baro-san:

As I thought, you're not actually acquainted with Hershey's methods.

You're talking only about somebody else's initial learning experience of Hershey's method for swing trading high quality stocks. No SCT, and no first hand understanding of Hershey's price / volume based method.From earlier in this thread:

Particularly PVT and SCT were what was published by spyder in the wl4.wealth-lab forums.

It was not profitable. No matter where you backtest those methods there's no public backtest other than the one T666 publishes, and also matches the results I get when backtesting a portfolio simulation in Wealth Lab's Portfolio Simulator.

The explanation of cash cow by Scottd is there for you to code, but you'll need my data or even my version of Jack's program.

Baro-san, if you do have backtests please publish here.

PVT/SCT are one and the same method, published for the Wealth Lab community, but, as I said, was not found to be profitable.

Jack's Cash Cow is the only one that has published code, backtests, and tradeslists.

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by Joe Doaks on 12-27-11 07:04 PM:

Quote from bwolinsky:

Particularly PVT and SCT were what was published by spyder in the wl4.wealth-lab forums.

It was not profitable. No matter where you backtest those methods there's no public backtest other than the one T666 publishes, and also matches the results I get when backtesting a portfolio simulation in Wealth Lab's Portfolio Simulator.

The explanation of cash cow by Scottd is there for you to code, but you'll need my data or even my version of Jack's program.

Baro-san, if you do have backtests please publish here.

PVT/SCT are one and the same method, published for the Wealth Lab community, but, as I said, was not found to be profitable.

Jack's Cash Cow is the only one that has published code, backtests, and tradeslists.

With respect, the pure PV system without any indicators, relying only on crayola-ing, was IMO never sufficiently well defined to code and test it. Had it been, I would have done it. The real issue is not "does it work?" but "what the hell are the hard unambuggerous rules for it?"

Posted by bwolinsky on 12-27-11 07:36 PM:

Quote from Joe Doaks:

With respect, the pure PV system without any indicators, relying only on crayola-ing, was IMO never sufficiently well defined to code and test it. Had it been, I would have done it. The real issue is not "does it work?" but "what the hell are the hard unambuggerous rules for it?"

The PVT was part of the Hershey Equities method that was coded for trading, and wasn't profitable, so crayola-ing can be done automatically with it but it does not have any ascending equity curves.

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by Joe Doaks on 12-27-11 07:44 PM:

Quote from bwolinsky:

The PVT was part of the Hershey Equities method that was coded for trading, and wasn't profitable, so crayola-ing can be done automatically with it but it does not have any ascending equity curves.

Sorry, I didn't hold my brain right. By his pure PV system I meant SCT.

Posted by baro-san on 12-27-11 08:01 PM:

Quote from bwolinsky:

Particularly PVT and SCT were what was published by spyder in the wl4.wealth-lab forums.

It was not profitable. No matter where you backtest those methods there's no public backtest other than the one T666 publishes, and also matches the results I get when backtesting a portfolio simulation in Wealth Lab's Portfolio Simulator.

The explanation of cash cow by Scottd is there for you to code, but you'll need my data or even my version of Jack's program.

Baro-san, if you do have backtests please publish here.

PVT/SCT are one and the same method, published for the Wealth Lab community, but, as I said, was not found to be profitable.

Jack's Cash Cow is the only one that has published code, backtests, and tradeslists.

We seem to have a parallel exchange of opinions.

Coding a set of rules is a craft. It doesn't require much intelligence.

Running a code over sets of data without knowing how to interpret it is useless, and it is hazardous to your bank account. Check what the hell happened!?!?

Discovering the laws of the market requires a genius.

Understanding those laws, and having the ability to devise a way to extract money from the market requires an intelligence above average, and a lot of work to get into the appropriate mindset. This is what can be reproached to Hershey: he misled people into believing that anybody can do it. In his defence, probably he really believes it.

You have to fully internalize the price / volume relationship, and apply it consistently. You can use various filters / crutches to help you in this process, but you have to understand both their functions and limitations, and not to blindly rely on them.

Automating this method may be compared to using automatic language translators. It's not enough to know the words, the grammar, even the style, you need the feeling of the language that even most human translators don't have.

I'm almost sure that I can't convince you.

Posted by Joe Doaks on 12-27-11 08:17 PM:

Quote from baro-san:

I'm almost sure that I can't convince you.

Slick NLP.

Posted by baro-san on 12-27-11 08:24 PM:

Understanding those laws, and having the ability to devise a way to extract money from the market requires an intelligence above average, and a lot of work to get into the appropriate mindset.

Verstehen diese Gesetze, und mit der Fähigkeit, eine Möglichkeit, Geld aus dem Markt zu extrahieren entwickeln erfordert eine überdurchschnittliche Intelligenz und eine Menge Arbeit, um in das entsprechende Mentalität zu bekommen.

Understand these laws, and with the ability, a way to extract money from the market to develop an above-average intelligence and a lot of work needs to get into the appropriate mindset.

Verstehen Sie diese Gesetze, und mit der Fähigkeit, braucht einen Weg, um Geld aus dem Markt zu extrahieren, um eine überdurchschnittliche Intelligenz und eine Menge Arbeit zu entwickeln, um in die entsprechende Einstellung zu bekommen.

Do you understand these laws, and with the ability, you need a way to extract money from the market for an above-average intelligence and to develop a lot of work to get in the appropriate setting.

Posted by bwolinsky on 12-27-11 08:24 PM:

Quote from baro-san:

We seem to have a parallel exchange of opinions.

Coding a set of rules is a craft. It doesn't require much intelligence.

Running a code over sets of data without knowing how to interpret it is useless, and it is hazardous to your bank account. Check what the hell happened!?!?

Discovering the laws of the market requires a genius.

Understanding those laws, and having the ability to devise a way to extract money from the market requires an intelligence above average, and a lot of work to get into the appropriate mindset. This is what can be reproached to Hershey: he misled people into believing that anybody can do it. In his defence, probably he really believes it.

You have to fully internalize the price / volume relationship, and apply it consistently. You can use various filters / crutches to help you in this process, but you have to understand both their functions and limitations, and not to blindly rely on them.

Automating this method may be compared to using automatic language translators. It's not enough to know the words, the grammar, even the style, you need the feeling of the language that even most human translators don't have.

I'm almost sure that I can't convince you.

No, you can't, because Jack's method is a joke.

Price Physics is a much better theory of market price, movement, and fluidity. There is zero comparison here, since Jack's a nutcase, he hasn't articulated in formal compilations any of his theories instead choosing to obfuscate 3-4 different sets of ideas that have no backtests.

Since there are no backtests, and no one's put on a forward test, it's not that there has to be a forward test but that there's no evidence that Jack's method wrt PVT, SCT, which are essentially the same thing, and Cash Cow or Rockets which have very limited resources amassed in piles of drivel throughout ET could ever be profitable.

There is no evidence that PVT or SCT is profitable. No backtests means there's no theory he has that works other than the one I adapted in Wealth Lab for Cash Cow trading.

If it startles you to realize you've been mislead, it happens to noobs quite often. They hear and see thousands of threads on the guy and there is no proof from Jack, and only incenses me to tell you that anybody thinking Jack has foolproof methods or ones that pay off national debts is ludicrous.

No, price physics and pairs trading arbitrage will always work, but Jack's methods will not, and have been shown to be unprofitable no matter which variant you'd like to discuss, but, for me, his only real method that has been brought to light since 2008 was Scottd's EasyLanguage Cash Cow code, and I don't know where he got it, but that is the finality on the extent to which Jack's method works.

If you'd like to exhibit some intelligence in our discussion rather than attacking the messenger you may insert whatever random logic you think fits PVT/SCT methods because they have already been tested and found unprofitable. His rockets has never been coded, but I'm unsure if it isn't Cash Cow rather than a 4th method that that refers to.

Backtesting is as good to me as proof; since there isn't any, there is no proof.

Again, you may respond by attacking a highly knowledgeable RIA Rep and CTA, or you can insert your backtests, with tradeslists and that will be enough for me to say one way or the other.

BTW, Baro-San, I am a savant, so don't tell me that I need to learn anything other than how to scientifically test his methods, because there's nothing formulaic but algorithms if there is by definition, a mechanical method of trading, that's somehow profitable. In many different topics around here the lack of backtesting means it's fraudulent, and if you don't understand that we can argue till I'm blue in the face, but not before I glow blue for you and tell you how finding out these answers for yourself is as much a journey to discover what's good for the soul as it is a way to prove genius one way or the other.

__________________
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Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by baro-san on 12-27-11 08:59 PM:

Quote from bwolinsky:

No, you can't, because Jack's method is a joke. ... Again, you may respond by attacking a highly knowledgeable RIA Rep and CTA, or you can insert your backtests, with tradeslists and that will be enough for me to say one way or the other.

BTW, Baro-San, I am a savant, so don't tell me that I need to learn anything other than how to scientifically test his methods, because there's nothing formulaic but algorithms if there is by definition, a mechanical method of trading, that's somehow profitable. In many different topics around here the lack of backtesting means it's fraudulent, and if you don't understand that we can argue till I'm blue in the face, but not before I glow blue for you and tell you how finding out these answers for yourself is as much a journey to discover what's good for the soul as it is a way to prove genius one way or the other.

Believe me: the truth escapes you at the moment. And, I'm not attacking you. Why should I?

Posted by Jack Nestle on 12-27-11 09:04 PM:

All it would take would be one day of live calls. Odds of that every happening, 0%.

Posted by bwolinsky on 12-27-11 09:07 PM:

Quote from Jack Nestle:

All it would take would be one day of live calls. Odds of that every happening, 0%.

You are correct, Mr. Nestle.

Like Jack Nestle's Wonderful Chocolate Crunch method? Or how about Jack Nestle's Price Volume Obfuscation method? No? Call it something better, like Jack Nestle's NASCAR Racing Method?

Jack Nestle's call for calls method? Yeah, that's better.

__________________
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Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by bwolinsky on 12-27-11 09:14 PM:

Quote from baro-san:

Believe me: the truth escapes you at the moment. And, I'm not attacking you. Why should I?

Being the noob that you are, handling complicated tasks such as backtesting and opining about topics you have no experience with is the typical Hershey follower.

It's no different. You could put your backtests here, and that would be fine.

You don't have any, instead, choosing to avoid the issue of scientific evidence, basis, and facts, when what you've posited as your argument is no different than telling me about the idea of reincarnation for Hindus.

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by baro-san on 12-27-11 09:28 PM:

Quote from bwolinsky:

Being the noob that you are, handling complicated tasks such as backtesting and opining about topics you have no experience with is the typical Hershey follower.

It's no different. You could put your backtests here, and that would be fine.

You don't have any, instead, choosing to avoid the issue of scientific evidence, basis, and facts, when what you've posited as your argument is no different than telling me about the idea of reincarnation for Hindus.

Now, you attacked me, in your usual manner, based on no first hand information, with the arrogance of a mentally limited person. You don't know what you're talking about. You're no savant, just a fixed minded and pretentious wannabe. I won't reply anymore, and my good will to help you open your mind is gone. In life you get, and you'll get, what you deserve. And obviously your remark about Hindus shows once more how you throw words about things you've only superficially heard. So who's obviously the noob?

Posted by bwolinsky on 12-27-11 09:49 PM:

Quote from baro-san:

Now, you attacked me, in your usual manner, based on no first hand information, with the arrogance of a mentally limited person. You don't know what you're talking about. You're no savant, just a fixed minded and pretentious wannabe. I won't reply anymore, and my good will to help you open your mind is gone. In life you get, and you'll get, what you deserve. And obviously your remark about Hindus shows once more how you throw words about things you've only superficially heard. So who's obviously the noob?

You are indeed a noob.

Would you like to handle your backtesting logic assumptions now? Or do you want to review thousands of pages that make no point?

Do you have backtests? I have backtests, which puts me further ahead of you, and regardless of whether you think I'm a savant you've proved you don't understand simple logic.

If you want to prove otherwise, paste your code, here, and your backtests, and I will take them at face value.

Until you do, no matter how superficially you think I understand world religions, you are no different than a faith based believer.

You can redeem yourself by posting simple backtests. You said they take 15 minutes and I'll give you an hour.

Till then. Ciao.

__________________
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Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by ammo on 12-27-11 09:53 PM:

http://truthdive.com/2011/12/23/for...-lady-gaga.html you go on and on about your immense I Q ,seems the only thing you accomplish is going on and on..on that list there are 10 Indians 29 and under,they probably stfu and applied themselves

Posted by bwolinsky on 12-27-11 10:02 PM:

Quote from ammo:

http://truthdive.com/2011/12/23/for...-lady-gaga.html you go on and on about your immense I Q ,seems the only thing you accomplish is going on and on..on that list there are 10 Indians 29 and under,they probably stfu and applied themselves

I don't tend to look at links meant to dissuade me out of my own knowledge of how well I perform in my trading activities.

If you have backtests, I'd love to see them.

Ammo, it's not like I'm asking for something mythical. That you guys claim there's even a backtest that takes 15 minutes to do makes me suspicious, and it should make everyone suspicious. If you don't see it as fact that these backtests don't exist, and I also know that you two, ammo and baro-san, cannot possibly produce them, then I will leave it at drachma.

Myth? Jack Hershey Fraud Method is a myth, and so are the methods he's used to explain them. It's not the pupil, it is the teacher, and the teacher is a fraud insofar as there's no hard data except mine that has anything at all to do with trading.

And that's the point. That's all she wrote.

Note:

Performance Simulations would be necessary to change my mind, and as long as you guys keep avoiding that issue, I will continue to tell you this man is full of nothing but lies and deceit.

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by ammo on 12-27-11 10:17 PM:

i dont program i don't test..this has been pointed out..the point being made is that you are full of it,backtest or not ,who gives a rat's ass,,you just keep digging a bigger hole for yourself,quit doing jump n jacks on ET,look at me,over here, me ,me, stfu and get to work,this is a trading site,not daycare,you are beau the boy,become beau the man ,grow up

Posted by bwolinsky on 12-27-11 10:47 PM:

Quote from ammo:

i dont program i don't test..this has been pointed out..the point being made is that you are full of it,backtest or not ,who gives a rat's ass,,you just keep digging a bigger hole for yourself,quit doing jump n jacks on ET,look at me,over here, me ,me, stfu and get to work,this is a trading site,not daycare,you are beau the boy,become beau the man ,grow up

Ammo, you have no data to back that up with. You also don't use punctuation or capitalize.

If you'd like to share your data like us adults do, you can certainly reveal whatever it is this man may have taught you.

So come join the rest of us grown ups and we'll tell you what we think of the data. I may be judgmental in that respect, but not when it comes to simple validation.

I'm more annoyed at the immature, childish behavior of followers, but even more annoyed that when I bring up needing to validate third party results through simulations only this shouldn't be too much to ask, but it is for Jack Hershey, and that's how I know he's a fraud.

You may not have been taught the scientific method in gradeschool, so if you don't think what I'm asking is unreasonable it is you sir who are the child.

I'm not asking anything more than I've asked of other mentors. It's too much for Jack, and too much for others to lay out hard data, especially a simple performance summary that adds up, not a fake one.

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by Rob227 on 12-27-11 10:48 PM:

Quote from bwolinsky:

You are correct, Mr. Nestle.

Like Jack Nestle's Wonderful Chocolate Crunch method? Or how about Jack Nestle's Price Volume Obfuscation method? No? Call it something better, like Jack Nestle's NASCAR Racing Method?

Jack Nestle's call for calls method? Yeah, that's better.

LoL!

Posted by ammo on 12-27-11 11:09 PM:

Quote from ammo:

,you can get rid of it on your own or let the market kick it out of you,the wall listens better

Posted by bwolinsky on 12-27-11 11:23 PM:

Quote from ammo:

,you can get rid of it on your own or let the market kick it out of you,the wall listens better

Like how to make \$256,625 per day?

Do you have a simulation like that?

No? I'm sure Jack Hershey would be so proud if you started making live calls here.

The proof's on you. Whether or not your infantile ego realizes it, you haven't proven anything other than how inept you are at explaining things, which is exactly like Hershey.

If you want to show something, you can show it, otherwise the notion that I am not any better to talk to than the wall puts the blame squarely on you, when it is I who would love to see some original research by Jack Hershey himself than more obfuscation. If that's what you're into, so be it, but don't think I'm any less wiser for having to ask for things that have practical use, scientific basis, and facts rooted in the realms of reality. You're talking about faith based issues, and without quantitative results, even only backtests, you haven't proven anything other than to perpetuate Jack Hershey's Fraud Method.

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by TIKITRADER on 12-28-11 12:11 AM:

Ok, the decoder flashlight has been placed on the window and it is revealing something different.
Window shopping with flashlights is never a good thing. It spooks the police.
They have no idea you are using the secret decoder flashlight.
They think otherwise.

Let's talk shop Jack still no siesta here. It's all work. The shop is open for business.

Posted by jack hershey on 12-28-11 12:45 AM:

Ok, the decoder flashlight has been placed on the window and it is revealing something different.
Window shopping with flashlights is never a good thing. It spooks the police.
They have no idea you are using the secret decoder flashlight.
They think otherwise.

Let's talk shop Jack still no siesta here. It's all work. The shop is open for business.

For those who wish to backtest, etc., please use the one pagers and the correct Universes.

For PVT, the Universe is explained over and over in many places.

If you set up the logic in Worden's Blox and run the NAZ 100, the sharpe the worden programmers got @ TradersExpo was over 60. We do not use the NAZ 100 but Worden did because they could not get a Universe.

SCT has a rather large application. Probably it is best to run about 85 instruments from all over the world. The result using a 5 min chart during only RTH, will be a multiple of the ATR as previously explained.

I'm sure by now, no one is phishing in order to reverse engineer the one pagers. Why would a person bother since the one pagers are clear concise and crisp?

If you are not able to backtest without changing the one pager rules, then do not expect what you did to work the way it works when a disciplined coding approach has been used.

As you can see here some people have beliefs systems that preclude their being able to trade successfully.

What I expect of a user of my approach is that a person supports the learning of others in using it. The reason for this is well known. When a person supports a learner, he learns more than his first time around.

I have also explained that a lot of people cannot learn this stuff. In turn, they explain exactly why they cannot learn it.

A few years ago I explained the mistakes other backtesters were making; you can refer to those explanations if you wish.

Posted by jack hershey on 12-28-11 12:48 AM:

Ok, the decoder flashlight has been placed on the window and it is revealing something different.
Window shopping with flashlights is never a good thing. It spooks the police.
They have no idea you are using the secret decoder flashlight.
They think otherwise.

Let's talk shop Jack still no siesta here. It's all work. The shop is open for business.

here is correction.

Posted by bwolinsky on 12-28-11 01:08 AM:

Quote from jack hershey:

For those who wish to backtest, etc., please use the one pagers and the correct Universes.

For PVT, the Universe is explained over and over in many places.

If you set up the logic in Worden's Blox and run the NAZ 100, the sharpe the worden programmers got @ TradersExpo was over 60. We do not use the NAZ 100 but Worden did because they could not get a Universe.

SCT has a rather large application. Probably it is best to run about 85 instruments from all over the world. The result using a 5 min chart during only RTH, will be a multiple of the ATR as previously explained.

I'm sure by now, no one is phishing in order to reverse engineer the one pagers. Why would a person bother since the one pagers are clear concise and crisp?

If you are not able to backtest without changing the one pager rules, then do not expect what you did to work the way it works when a disciplined coding approach has been used.

As you can see here some people have beliefs systems that preclude their being able to trade successfully.

What I expect of a user of my approach is that a person supports the learning of others in using it. The reason for this is well known. When a person supports a learner, he learns more than his first time around.

I have also explained that a lot of people cannot learn this stuff. In turn, they explain exactly why they cannot learn it.

A few years ago I explained the mistakes other backtesters were making; you can refer to those explanations if you wish.

Jack, with all due respect, Sharpes greater than 60 are not possible over any length of period of time without peeking at data or using invalid trading assumptions with regard to fill logic.

Googling: Jack Hershey Traders Expo Sharpe 60

Only shows that result reported in this thread. Now you can either show me the pdf, or prove it on your own. I'm too smart to mess around even debating whether that's true, Jack.

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by jack hershey on 12-28-11 01:46 AM:

Quote from bwolinsky:

Jack, with all due respect, Sharpes greater than 60 are not possible over any length of period of time without peeking at data or using invalid trading assumptions with regard to fill logic.

Googling: Jack Hershey Traders Expo Sharpe 60

Only shows that result reported in this thread. Now you can either show me the pdf, or prove it on your own. I'm too smart to mess around even debating whether that's true, Jack.

The Worden people didn't believe it either.

So they repeated doing the PVT one pager using Bloxs using the NAZ 100 for a year.

Guess what?

A larger group gathered.

Call Worden; save the search which didn't work for you.

Posted by TIKITRADER on 12-28-11 01:51 AM:

Jack Thank you for the edit.
Window shopping in the holidays season is neat.
The holiday display in this window is a blast. Everything on display is at reach. All you have to do is enter the door .

Posted by bwolinsky on 12-28-11 02:04 AM:

Quote from jack hershey:

The Worden people didn't believe it either.

So they repeated doing the PVT one pager using Bloxs using the NAZ 100 for a year.

Guess what?

A larger group gathered.

Call Worden; save the search which didn't work for you.

Phone Number?

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by hkrahra on 12-28-11 02:08 AM:

Quote from bwolinsky:

Phone Number?

911

Posted by nkhoi on 12-28-11 02:33 AM:

Quote from bwolinsky:

Phone Number?

spoon-fed mentality!!!

Posted by TIKITRADER on 12-28-11 02:54 AM:

I wound up behind bars in a Cell 4 - 1 - 4 - 1 - 2 - 3 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 1 - 4 - 1
I could be spending time in the wrong cell though

That's what I get for pointing a secret decoder flashlight in the window.

Posted by hkrahra on 12-28-11 04:12 AM:

Jack,i got a Q regarding non-dom segments.Do you keep and monitor non-dom segments` indicators within one display or aside?

Posted by TIKITRADER on 12-28-11 05:36 AM:

4 2 1 2, 2 4 3 4, 4 2 1 2 ____ 4212

2 4 3 4 , 4 2 1 2, 2 4 3 4 ____ 2434 ____4212

4 2 1 2, 2 4 3 4, 4 2 1 2 ____ 4212

Or not.

and I said something about jd's post. Now I'm hallucinating

Posted by v34rm on 12-28-11 06:59 AM:

P rice and V olume are independent variables ..... price can be Increasing , decreasing , flat ...... volume is always increasing ..... this is a proof that JH is full of ....you know what...

Posted by bwolinsky on 12-28-11 04:25 PM:

Quote from nkhoi:

spoon-fed mentality!!!

Worden's Blox doesn't return any phone numbers, and calling Trader's Expo wouldn't work either, so if you have a suggestion on how to arrange validating this third party claim, it is not spoon-fed mentality, but simple verification of such claims.

It does not surprise me that there is nothing online that cannot be found with google, and this exaccerabates the doubts I have about Jack's Methods further.

If you don't find it odd that this mythical backtest is nowhere online, or that Jack doesn't have any phone number to verify this absurd claim, then the loss is with Jack, and it's not that I prefer for it to be easy but making such claims without the proper documentation is fraudulent, so if you have this number, you can provide it, too, or else you'll continue to be part of this farce.

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by MarketMasher on 12-28-11 05:19 PM:

Quote from bwolinsky:

Worden's Blox doesn't return any phone numbers, and calling Trader's Expo wouldn't work either, so if you have a suggestion on how to arrange validating this third party claim, it is not spoon-fed mentality, but simple verification of such claims.

It does not surprise me that there is nothing online that cannot be found with google, and this exaccerabates the doubts I have about Jack's Methods further.

If you don't find it odd that this mythical backtest is nowhere online, or that Jack doesn't have any phone number to verify this absurd claim, then the loss is with Jack, and it's not that I prefer for it to be easy but making such claims without the proper documentation is fraudulent, so if you have this number, you can provide it, too, or else you'll continue to be part of this farce.

I would have to agree with this.

It is not the responsibility of the person hearing a claim to prove anything. It is the responsibility of the person making the claim to prove it.

I can claim that I can jump 200 feet and then fly. Now you prove it.

That's the kind of approach that leads people to think that aluminum tubes looked at before the war in Iraq are for uranium enrichment rather than as rocket boosters.

It helps to approach these things with healthy skepticism...

Posted by ammo on 12-28-11 07:33 PM:

my approach to trading was always to spend time on finding what works and progress from there,i found market profile useful 26 yrs ago and have been fine tuning it since,if i had a system that was genius,making me 250k a day, i would be spending my time working on it,i think jack found channel trading 50 yrs ago and has been tweaking it since,if that's not your thing,i don't see why so many people spend time with something they find doesn't work,move on,you only have so many braincells to burn

Posted by jack hershey on 12-28-11 07:33 PM:

Quote from v34rm:

P rice and V olume are independent variables ..... price can be Increasing , decreasing , flat ...... volume is always increasing ..... this is a proof that JH is full of ....you know what...

There are five single bar price patterns: Continue, end of continue, no trend, beginning of continue, and spike. You posted the long and short continue and the no trend (doji).

So the first thing a potential learner learns is how to use these five individual proce patterns. Hee learns how to do a complete trend, how to not trader until AFTER and end of trend and how to begin a hold at the beginning of a trend.

What helps him out in these matters? Volume leads price.

You are an example of a person observing markets as a pre beginner. Most people are like you so do not dispair.

So far you have concluded I am full of shit.

This is a common error made by pre beginners. Their basis of judgement is very sparse and often a result of a poor upbringing. See if you can remember if your dad said to shoot your mouth off as he does. See if you can remember if your mom said to be seen and not heard.

Here is what you failed to learn anywhere you could have been found.

Bars are not usually judged individually.

Since you still do this, I am interceding on your behalf with some more shit that I am full of.

Try for a short period to look at adjacent bars. Call them bar 1 and bar 2.
Volume is changing according to its relationship to the prior bar. Since one of my shittiest inventions is PRV, anyone can know almost imediately at the beginning of a 5 minute bar what the final volume will be. It is shown as a shadow behind the actual forming volume.

By knowing ahead of time, you can plan on doing an intrabar trade when price hits its extreme by using one of my more than 10 shitty price indicators. Thus you can carve turns to the tick at the change moment of any trend. Notice that you can draw the five individual bars and always see the bar that depicts the intrabar momnet of change.

There are many many things that I have never spoken of. They are an order of magnitude more shitty than the shitty things you currently misunderstand.

The gerunds of the paradigm's HS use MS's that deal with the adjacency mentioned in the HS's. As any fifth grader who is studying logic theory and paradigm theory and fractal theory.

A gerund is designated in a language. All gerunds are easily recognized. Their last letter is "g"; the next to last letter is "n"; and the next to next last letter is "i". If you knew more about adjacency, I could explain a gerund more easily.

Posted by jack hershey on 12-28-11 07:44 PM:

Quote from ammo:

my approach to trading was always to spend time on finding what works and progress from there,i found market profile useful 26 yrs ago and have been fine tuning it since,if i had a system that was genius,making me 250k a day, i would be spending my time working on it,i think jack found channel trading 50 yrs ago and has been tweaking it since,if that's not your thing,i don't see why so many people spend time with something they find doesn't work,move on,you only have so many braincells to burn

It is true I began trading before arcane did.

Then magnets were used and they were part of relays. They were blown clean before open to assure their would be no "bugs" in the contact spaces.

In those days tapes were made of paper and long legged air headed girls pulled pieces of tape and strode to steps leading up to a chalk tray. They bent forward and, on high heels, picked a color of chalk for noting the adjacency of price and volume. Arrows were used along with redundant color for the audience (some who would feel I am a shithead (wealthy though and mysterious besides) to make judgements upon. Personally, I liked all their stroking in my direction. When they stroked the other way, I traded and used cigars to express myself. (Google Clinton).

Thus I learned adjacency when it was the hardest for me; it was more fun.

Posted by ammo on 12-28-11 07:53 PM:

to follow up on fine tuning,jack didn't have the luxury of 1 minute ,5 minute bars 20 yrs ago,nor volume..a lot of stuff he is explaining is an add on to a previous ,more bulky,probably simpler interpretation of the market,it's hard enough to understand another persons explanation of what they are seeing,try compressing 50 yrs into a few posts on a thread where some traders still in diapers are rattling the bars in their crib,screaming for milk,now

Posted by jack hershey on 12-28-11 08:07 PM:

Quote from MarketMasher:

I would have to agree with this.

It is not the responsibility of the person hearing a claim to prove anything. It is the responsibility of the person making the claim to prove it.

I can claim that I can jump 200 feet and then fly. Now you prove it.

That's the kind of approach that leads people to think that aluminum tubes looked at before the war in Iraq are for uranium enrichment rather than as rocket boosters.

It helps to approach these things with healthy skepticism...

\You are absolutely correct.

My back yard has a 250 foot cliff. I know on your first visit you will be allowed to junp more than 200 feet. And I will get a bunch of friends to watch along with an EMT or two.

I tried to get bow wow to invest some time on Bloxs. I tried to get T666 to use the onepager too. they can't.

The indirect proof turns out to be that these turds are lazy good for bothings who wish to remain poor.

By using bloxs to form a drap and drop circuit and just use the NAZ100 for a year, the Worden product delivers a sharpe ratio in seconds after you shoot it the data.

Imagine a Worden employee seeing the highest Sharpe he ever got from a drag and drop application.

He is defintely not going to believe he did the drap and drop correctly so he is going to erase it immediately. He did and the whole group had the same reaction: NOOOOOOO don't erase that ......let us have it!!!!!!!!!!

I was rolling in the corridor. I was laughing out loud. It was just like imagining meeting bow wow or T666 or T28 or pecelo or redneck!!!!!!!!!

Hayzeus!!!!!!

Everyone wanted one thing.

Imagine it!!!!!!!

Could the Worden guy do the drag and drop again? would he???

if bow wow were there the drooling on the corridor floor would have caused everyone to slip and slide.

Imagine bow wow drooling and screaming his tired lazy ass off (He always talks out of his ass as a rule)

carefully the worden sales director nudges the operator of the PC to "DO IT AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!

He looks carefully at the one pager...... he drags and drops and drags and drops.

Bow wow wants his phone number. bow wow is on his search engine fucking away his life yet once more.

meanwhile.... another grasp to drag.... a clutch to connect. A good to the last drop (cup and handle).

OHHHH SHIT, the same sharpe over 60!!!!!!!!

they were handing out stacks and stacks of CD's with freee for 60 days drag and drop. the circuit was being copied........

Chris (oops) was saying to me "come to the next training session and we can do this live in class!!!!!!!!"

I hesitated..... I thought..... I blew my cover yet one more time......

Should I post my name badge????? Non non!!!!! Don't scan and post that evidence with all the kisses on it.

no no ... Lets listen one more time to BOW WOW talk out of his asshole.

Anyone who wants to make a quarter of a million a day can do it using the SCT one pager.

My best day with the PVT one pager was doing 100K shares and making a net of 17 points. Ruff Ruff. (hint: multiply the two factors to get the product). The proof was given to a third party who confirmed the FedEx on ET. The third party was a broker; he cut fees 10% to anyone who would trade my apporach in his shop.

Posted by MarketMasher on 12-28-11 08:11 PM:

Sadly, you missed the point. Try to pay better attention. Now, follow.

I just took a walk, jumped 200 feet, and flew in a radius of 3 miles.

I made sure to wear a red cape, so all who looked up would know it was me.

If you were not there to personally witness it, then I suggest you call around to ground control stations, as they very likely picked me up on radar.

I don't have their numbers offhand, so I suggest you do the legwork.

If not, I can only conclude you are too lazy.

Now, you follow?....

Posted by jack hershey on 12-28-11 08:18 PM:

Quote from MarketMasher:

Sadly, you missed the point. Try to pay better attention. Now, follow.

I just took a walk, jumped 200 feet, and flew in a radius of 3 miles.

I made sure to wear a red cape, so all who looked up would know it was me.

If you were not there to personally witness it, then I suggest you call around to ground control stations, as they very likely picked me up on radar.

I don't have their numbers offhand, so I suggest you do the legwork.

If not, I can only conclude you are too lazy.

Now, you follow?....

Even more sadly, you get to do the jump if you don't chicken out.

Look you came up with a shitty example and you didn't know it was shitty.

Do you trade like you don't think?

Why fuck with someone who is not as shitty as you are?

Look up the proofs.

Posted by MarketMasher on 12-28-11 08:23 PM:

Quote from jack hershey:

Even more sadly, you get to do the jump if you don't chicken out.

Look you came up with a shitty example and you didn't know it was shitty.

Do you trade like you don't think?

Why fuck with someone who is not as shitty as you are?

Look up the proofs.

Proofs?

Are you saying you entered an independently verifiable trading contest or something like that?

That's great! Ok - I will apologize when I see proof you won!

Posted by ammo on 12-28-11 08:28 PM:

Quote from MarketMasher:

Sadly, you missed the point. Try to pay better attention. Now, follow.

I just took a walk, jumped 200 feet, and flew in a radius of 3 miles.

I made sure to wear a red cape, so all who looked up would know it was me.

If you were not there to personally witness it, then I suggest you call around to ground control stations, as they very likely picked me up on radar.

I don't have their numbers offhand, so I suggest you do the legwork.

If not, I can only conclude you are too lazy.

Now, you follow?....

language is the bastardization of thought,because jack's ability to turn thoughts into words is probably his weakest skill,add on several jargon condensers,it is hard to understand it the way he explains it,that only disproves his ability to explain,not the setup,now sit in his chair and try to take this handicap and re explain it ad nauseum to his critics,for free,and ya wonder why he bothers,his inability to convert thought into words,is offset by his overabundant charitable nature,i can't do the whatever the initials he calls it,but i've looked at it and it is definetly do able,i've used what i could understand and applied it to reading the market,so thanks jack

Posted by MarketMasher on 12-28-11 08:38 PM:

Quote from ammo:

language is the bastardization of thought,because jack's ability to turn thoughts into words is probably his weakest skill,add on several jargon condensers,it is hard to understand it the way he explains it,that only disproves his ability to explain,not the setup,now sit in his chair and try to take this handicap and re explain it ad nauseum to his critics,for free,and ya wonder why he bothers,his inability to convert thought into words,is offset by his overabundant charitable nature,i can't do the whatever the initials he calls it,but i've looked at it and it is definetly do able,i've used what i could understand and applied it to reading the market,so thanks jack

Are you saying that the grammatical phraseology is akin to Tourette syndrome?

Ok, fine. But that isn't really the point either.

The point is claiming Iraq has Weapons of Mass Destruction (nukes, specifically) but offering no proof.

No, wait....that's not the point either......

The point is being too lazy to call around to Ground Control!

No, that's not it either.....

Something about making claims... or clams...............

Posted by jack hershey on 12-28-11 08:44 PM:

Quote from hkrahra:

Jack,i got a Q regarding non-dom segments.Do you keep and monitor non-dom segments` indicators within one display or aside?

Ordinarily, I run two screens trurned 90 degrees so they are taller than wide. The right side is empty except for projections for price to fill within these boundaries. I anticipate mostly.

My trading platform is on another computer and screen. It has some leading indicators there, too.

Since I believe the trading fractal must be surrounded by a slower fractal and a faster fractal, there are three interlocking fractals on which Doms and non-doms are seen and annotated.

For leading indicators, which are numerical, I separate Dom and non Dom using "visual" separators. See Don Bright's post where he excludes this technique, apparently.

You can see a lot of my display on posts here (by others who use the same)

This computer is very very separate from my trading stuff. Most of those who are trying to intrude on my equipment come from the "stan" type countires; they fail.

As you see, anyone who is phishing is given the answers to their phishing. Mostly they are too screwed up mentally to process anything and they tell me this is the fact for them.

The most humorous foul ups so far were done by T666. Bow wow is a close 19th so far. Younger screw ups are now passing him.

You may remember some of the "stans" posting in their native scripts. The cultural differences and time zone shift make it very inconvenient.

To put it very simply, the trading does boil down to a one pager. building the mind is apparently the difficult part.

recently I tried to deal with level 2 elsewhere. the OP couldn't follow the drift, either.

Posted by ammo on 12-28-11 08:45 PM:

back in 07 when i 1st came on here he and spyder had a thread explaining it all,did'nt comprehend it then, it was me not the material,archive it,jack's got a lot of stuff on here if you want to dig thru and study it for 6 months it will probably sink in,it didn't appeal to me because i was already years into another style of trading,if you pm the mods ,they can probably find that thread for you ,save you some time ,it was a big one with a lot of ques and answers,not this only notice the dogshit while looking at the flower garden crap that's in all the hershey threads now

Posted by MarketMasher on 12-28-11 09:12 PM:

Quote from ammo:

back in 07 when i 1st came on here he and spyder had a thread explaining it all,did'nt comprehend it then, it was me not the material,archive it,jack's got a lot of stuff on here if you want to dig thru and study it for 6 months it will probably sink in,it didn't appeal to me because i was already years into another style of trading,if you pm the mods ,they can probably find that thread for you ,save you some time ,it was a big one with a lot of ques and answers,not this only notice the dogshit while looking at the flower garden crap that's in all the hershey threads now

Hey, that's fine.

Apologies to Jack Hershey and all his followers.

My point is that I start from the default position when claims are made by anyone (government, businesses, whatever) that the onus is on THEM to prove their claim.

Then it is up to each individual to decide whether said proof was sufficient.

In the case of guys who make consistently huge returns in the market, their names usually end up in a Schwager book or in the buzz of brokerage houses. Sometimes even bad ones end up in the street buzz....

Anyway, that was the point. And since no one can ever give you back your TIME, it is never to be squandered lightly (unless that was your intent) so access claims up front before you spend a lot of it somewhere....

Happy New Year to All - Jack Hershey and followers included.

We all get another year (hopefully - unless the Mayans were right ) to be better than before!

Posted by jack hershey on 12-28-11 09:23 PM:

Quote from MarketMasher:

Proofs?

Are you saying you entered an independently verifiable trading contest or something like that?

That's great! Ok - I will apologize when I see proof you won!

At that time a proof was a print or a set of prints sent directly from one broker to another (hilited usually). Fed Ex was usually used. This was called a third party proof. My 1.7 million dollar net was one of those. the partial fills took 31 pages to hi lite.

My first print on here was claimed to be photoshopped by a guy named Nitro. He doesn't trade any more.

I used to post logic so people could see how ATS's were built. I do not do that anymore. It is beyond the thinking of most programmers, apparently.

In today's culture, most people are like you are. Mentally you are screwed most likely since you do not know how learning works and you do not know how the mind works.

I do know about those things and I, when younger, lectured in a great many fields on cutting edge things.

This apology thing you have thought up. Why bother?

You are incapable of getting you mind to think about things. That is quitte normal.

No one needs to think up apologyness. It is not a part of any picture.

I did enter one contest that had no "cancel out of the contest. The rules didn't work and no one participated. Contests are like research being done. Just more humor.

In todays market it is very easy to make more than the ATR. There are no losses in tradiing today.

Posted by MarketMasher on 12-28-11 09:32 PM:

Quote from jack hershey:

In today's culture, most people are like you are. Mentally you are screwed most likely since you do not know how learning works and you do not know how the mind works.

HEY!! If I cared what you thought, that would really bother me!!

Posted by v34rm on 12-28-11 09:38 PM:

Quote from jack hershey:

There are five single bar price patterns: Continue, end of continue, no trend, beginning of continue, and spike. You posted the long and short continue and the no trend (doji).

So the first thing a potential learner learns is how to use these five individual proce patterns. Hee learns how to do a complete trend, how to not trader until AFTER and end of trend and how to begin a hold at the beginning of a trend.

What helps him out in these matters? Volume leads price.

You are an example of a person observing markets as a pre beginner. Most people are like you so do not dispair.

So far you have concluded I am full of shit.

This is a common error made by pre beginners. Their basis of judgement is very sparse and often a result of a poor upbringing. See if you can remember if your dad said to shoot your mouth off as he does. See if you can remember if your mom said to be seen and not heard.

Here is what you failed to learn anywhere you could have been found.

Bars are not usually judged individually.

Since you still do this, I am interceding on your behalf with some more shit that I am full of.

Try for a short period to look at adjacent bars. Call them bar 1 and bar 2.
Volume is changing according to its relationship to the prior bar. Since one of my shittiest inventions is PRV, anyone can know almost imediately at the beginning of a 5 minute bar what the final volume will be. It is shown as a shadow behind the actual forming volume.

By knowing ahead of time, you can plan on doing an intrabar trade when price hits its extreme by using one of my more than 10 shitty price indicators. Thus you can carve turns to the tick at the change moment of any trend. Notice that you can draw the five individual bars and always see the bar that depicts the intrabar momnet of change.

There are many many things that I have never spoken of. They are an order of magnitude more shitty than the shitty things you currently misunderstand.

The gerunds of the paradigm's HS use MS's that deal with the adjacency mentioned in the HS's. As any fifth grader who is studying logic theory and paradigm theory and fractal theory.

A gerund is designated in a language. All gerunds are easily recognized. Their last letter is "g"; the next to last letter is "n"; and the next to next last letter is "i". If you knew more about adjacency, I could explain a gerund more easily.

The Whipsaw Song

Posted by hkrahra on 12-28-11 10:04 PM:

Quote from jack hershey:

Ordinarily, I run two screens trurned 90 degrees so they are taller than wide. The right side is empty except for projections for price to fill within these boundaries. I anticipate mostly.

My trading platform is on another computer and screen. It has some leading indicators there, too.

Since I believe the trading fractal must be surrounded by a slower fractal and a faster fractal, there are three interlocking fractals on which Doms and non-doms are seen and annotated.

For leading indicators, which are numerical, I separate Dom and non Dom using "visual" separators. See Don Bright's post where he excludes this technique, apparently.

You can see a lot of my display on posts here (by others who use the same)

This computer is very very separate from my trading stuff. Most of those who are trying to intrude on my equipment come from the "stan" type countires; they fail.

As you see, anyone who is phishing is given the answers to their phishing. Mostly they are too screwed up mentally to process anything and they tell me this is the fact for them.

The most humorous foul ups so far were done by T666. Bow wow is a close 19th so far. Younger screw ups are now passing him.

You may remember some of the "stans" posting in their native scripts. The cultural differences and time zone shift make it very inconvenient.

To put it very simply, the trading does boil down to a one pager. building the mind is apparently the difficult part.

recently I tried to deal with level 2 elsewhere. the OP couldn't follow the drift, either.

So the DOM is used for non-dom trades from the separate pulling the orders machine with some additional indicators,as i see it.Are these additional indicators some sort of a ratio of the indicators from your taller display,or another different kinds?

Posted by bwolinsky on 12-28-11 10:16 PM:

Quote from hkrahra:

So the DOM is used for non-dom trades from the separate pulling the orders machine with some additional indicators,as i see it.Are these additional indicators some sort of a ratio of the indicators from your taller display,or another different kinds?

I'm sure it did.

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by bwolinsky on 12-28-11 10:17 PM:

Quote from MarketMasher:

Are you saying that the grammatical phraseology is akin to Tourette syndrome?

Ok, fine. But that isn't really the point either.

The point is claiming Iraq has Weapons of Mass Destruction (nukes, specifically) but offering no proof.

No, wait....that's not the point either......

The point is being too lazy to call around to Ground Control!

No, that's not it either.....

Something about making claims... or clams...............

BTW, Iraq did have weapons of mass destruction that we gave him and that's why we knew he had them. Suddam Hussein had mustard gas, and that is considered wmd, we also found tons of the stuff in underground bunkers, which was the smoking gun that started the war in the first place.

Since Jack is incensed that he cannot produce a valid phone number to support his claim, I will have to ask for an alternative, like an e-mail address for Worden's Blox?

Jack, do you have an e-mail or phone number for the man that created your 60 sharpe backtest?

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by TIKITRADER on 12-28-11 11:26 PM:

Quote from jack hershey:

There are many many things that I have never spoken of. They are an order of magnitude more shitty than the shitty things you currently misunderstand.

Posted by jack hershey on 12-28-11 11:56 PM:

Quote from Peerlessfly:

COWARD.. once again Jack fails when it counts, the minute it moves from theory to practice both Jack and his methodology crumble and he resorts to lies and childish tantrums

As always Jack:

WHERE'S THE MONEY?

WHY ARE YOU SO POOR?

WHY ARE YOU IN DEBT?

WHY CAN'T YOU EXPLAIN OR PROVE YOUR METHODOLOGY?

WHY JACK?

It all comes down to one thing.

I'm a practicing coward who doesn't share everything freely and directly enough.

Posted by jack hershey on 12-29-11 12:37 AM:

Quote from Peerlessfly:

You just can't explain it because it doesn't work.. where's the money Jack?

Why are you poor and in debt if it works?

Why isn't there a single follower with money if it works?

Yeah.. you are a coward Jack, the worst kind, a moral coward

I stand corrected; to whit:

I'm a practicing moral coward who doesn't share everything freely and directly enough.

Posted by R. Raskolnikov on 12-29-11 12:54 AM:

Jack, stop chatting with Crybaby28....just click complain and watch him disappear

Posted by TIKITRADER on 12-29-11 12:59 AM:

_

Posted by bmwhendrix on 12-29-11 01:01 AM:

Jack..."Hi Baron, we garnered 32 hits today re: my "method". Ha, they keep biting! So, send my commission to the usual address so it can not be tracked. Looking forward to another profitable year."

Posted by baro-san on 12-29-11 01:23 AM:

_

Posted by MarketMasher on 12-29-11 01:56 AM:

Quote from bwolinsky:

BTW, Iraq did have weapons of mass destruction that we gave him and that's why we knew he had them. Suddam Hussein had mustard gas, and that is considered wmd, we also found tons of the stuff in underground bunkers, which was the smoking gun that started the war in the first place.

No, I specifically meant nukes.

"We don't want the smoking gun to become a mushroom cloud."

Remember that one?

They only repeated it a zillion times on tv and in print...

Posted by Paddler on 12-29-11 07:41 AM:

Quote from jack hershey:
It all comes down to one thing.

I'm a practicing coward who doesn't share everything freely and directly enough.

BINGOooo! }:-)

Posted by bwolinsky on 12-29-11 02:24 PM:

Quote from MarketMasher:

No, I specifically meant nukes.

"We don't want the smoking gun to become a mushroom cloud."

Remember that one?

They only repeated it a zillion times on tv and in print...

It may have been motivated by Nuclear arms but indeed we did find the others that we probably didn't want to tip him off that we knew about, and mustard gas qualifies as both wmd and the smoking gun to go to war.

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by ammo on 12-29-11 04:47 PM:

mustard gas can be made in your kitchen mixing bleach and ammonia,arrest all american moms who have that under their kitchen sink,that mixture gets racoons and squirrel's out of your attic

Posted by bwolinsky on 12-29-11 07:35 PM:

Quote from ammo:

mustard gas can be made in your kitchen mixing bleach and ammonia,arrest all american moms who have that under their kitchen sink,that mixture gets racoons and squirrel's out of your attic

Boy, the stupidity of this is amazing. I'm no chemist, but I know it's more complicated than that. Anhydrous ammonia is now a regulated substance, and is not in the standard household kitchen at all nor is any ammonia in the house weapons grade.

I'd hate to think of the mom that needs the high grade stuff around the house. Either she's farming or needs explosives, but it is not that simple.

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by Rahula Gautama on 12-29-11 07:56 PM:

Quote from ammo:

mustard gas can be made in your kitchen mixing bleach and ammonia,arrest all american moms who have that under their kitchen sink,that mixture gets racoons and squirrel's out of your attic

In mine country we are using the mustard greens for the saming defect.

Posted by Rahula Gautama on 12-29-11 08:03 PM:

Posted by jack hershey on 12-29-11 08:18 PM:

Attached is the relationship of Sharpe Ratio to both the market monitoring and analysis and to people.

I listed the theory authors for each principle which advances understanding the market and building the ATS's.

Worden's Bloxs is a drag and drop logic source.

The paradigm is done by deduction in a Scientific manner.

The rigid framework of the pieces is attained by using Mandelbrots "fractals" just as a snowflake is built from pieces.

Long before the PC, Granville and Dodd announced how markets work.

So PEP is the paradigm and in different markets there are different applications.

As to optimum fractals for trading, I settled on different ones for each application. There are about seven interlocking fractals to go from the granularity of markets to the econometrics of our culture. There is a one pager for each application. From the one pager, you can do the logic to have a reasonable ATS. Stats do NOT work as shown by T666, T28 and most others.

I have posted the set of characteristics of each application. The standard of comparison is the real market's offer.

Posted by hypostomus on 12-29-11 09:16 PM:

Quote from jack hershey:

Attached is the relationship of Sharpe Ratio to both the market monitoring and analysis and to people.

I listed the theory authors for each principle which advances understanding the market and building the ATS's.

Worden's Bloxs is a drag and drop logic source.

The paradigm is done by deduction in a Scientific manner.

The rigid framework of the pieces is attained by using Mandelbrots "fractals" just as a snowflake is built from pieces.

Long before the PC, Granville and Dodd announced how markets work.

So PEP is the paradigm and in different markets there are different applications.

As to optimum fractals for trading, I settled on different ones for each application. There are about seven interlocking fractals to go from the granularity of markets to the econometrics of our culture. There is a one pager for each application. From the one pager, you can do the logic to have a reasonable ATS. Stats do NOT work as shown by T666, T28 and most others.

I have posted the set of characteristics of each application. The standard of comparison is the real market's offer.

Jack, there you go hurting my old head again for heaven knows how many times in the past decade. How does your absurd Sharpe ratio handle ZERO risk trading? It ballows up. Remember your own words from so long ago: "Never a loss." I took them to heart.

__________________
Hypostomus Plecostomus (Not an alias)

Hypostomus enthusiastically endorses the products and services offered by E-Signal and Interactive Brokers, and will continue to do so until they pay me to stop.

Posted by TIKITRADER on 12-29-11 09:18 PM:

The entire gang is out today in cahoots

Posted by hypostomus on 12-29-11 09:34 PM:

The entire gang is out today in cahoots

When Old CootHoots speaks, out come the Old Cahoots.

The assurdity of Sharpe is this. I can pile conditioned probabilities ceiling high, take the trade of a lifetime for ten seconds for \$20, and have an infinite Sharpe based on one trade. The true issues in trading are large sample expectancy, expectancy stationarity in the long haul, and scalability. I couldn't give a shit less what Sharpe is. And Jack has more serious assertions to be questionned on than that.

__________________
Hypostomus Plecostomus (Not an alias)

Hypostomus enthusiastically endorses the products and services offered by E-Signal and Interactive Brokers, and will continue to do so until they pay me to stop.

Posted by jack hershey on 12-29-11 10:03 PM:

Quote from hypostomus:

When Old CootHoots speaks, out come the Old Cahoots.

The assurdity of Sharpe is this. I can pile conditioned probabilities ceiling high, take the trade of a lifetime for ten seconds for \$20, and have an infinite Sharpe based on one trade. The true issues in trading are large sample expectancy, expectancy stationarity in the long haul, and scalability. I couldn't give a shit less what Sharpe is. And Jack has more serious assertions to be questionned on than that.

Hi Hyp:

Good to see you posting.

I related how Worden's staff did the 60 plus Sharpe using the NAZ100 for a year.

A person from sunnyvale did a trading series for only 6 months but he did use a good universe and did an average hold of 6.6 days and made 11.1% a turn.

There is still some information missing in these examples.

During the beginning of my trading (1957) I had 1 out of 8 trades not go to completion because the one trade was an FBO.

at some point I began to do X over trades on stocks as a time compressor. It would be like using 3 phase 400cycle ac power and rectifying it to get a fairly smooth DC power source. Obviously if you could you would add an RLC network to polish off the job to the extent you wished. this would be a better dc Sharpe ratio dc.

In the chart I posted I showed how most beginneg stat users do backtesting on samples with timeouts for exits. That is what T666 did with a non selective anything goes non universe over five years.

we all saw that he did 24K trades and the lots averaged a 19 dollar loss. he was losing 500k and he took five years and lost an average of 19 bucks for each of his timeouts.

He didn't even get to the sweetspot for time outs and he didn't even know that. Bow wow hasn't understood T666's screwup in any way.

So there is a lot of humor on ET.

There is a guy testing RSI (7,1) and using a timeout. Are we supposed to just laugh or should we do some educating?

I posted a couple of posts on level 2. I have just gotten into the ball park so to speak on what used to be called "tape reading". There are 9 aspects of doing the warmup for learning to read the tape flawlessly. So why watch it since it can easily be coded and you get a sharpe ratio never seen on level 2. Should I drop down to the tick level and show how to carve turns to the tick while tape reading the level 2?

How much of the offer does a person have to take daily?

Since I problem solve and an dealing with a major world problem, I have tobe effective and efficient to get up to speed to solve the problem of PTSD. The military has decided to drop the D ..... lol But look at the larger non military part of the problem.

Anyway.... want to flesh out more of the opportunity?

Posted by jack hershey on 12-29-11 10:07 PM:

Quote from jack hershey:

Hi Hyp:

Good to see you posting.

I related how Worden's staff did the 60 plus Sharpe using the NAZ100 for a year.

A person from sunnyvale did a trading series for only 6 months but he did use a good universe and did an average hold of 6.6 days and made 11.1% a turn.

There is still some information missing in these examples.

During the beginning of my trading (1957) I had 1 out of 8 trades not go to completion because the one trade was an FBO.

at some point I began to do X over trades on stocks as a time compressor. It would be like using 3 phase 400cycle ac power and rectifying it to get a fairly smooth DC power source. Obviously if you could you would add an RLC network to polish off the job to the extent you wished. this would be a better dc Sharpe ratio dc.

In the chart I posted I showed how most beginneg stat users do backtesting on samples with timeouts for exits. That is what T666 did with a non selective anything goes non universe over five years.

we all saw that he did 24K trades and the lots averaged a 19 dollar loss. he was losing 500k and he took five years and lost an average of 19 bucks for each of his timeouts.

He didn't even get to the sweetspot for time outs and he didn't even know that. Bow wow hasn't understood T666's screwup in any way.

So there is a lot of humor on ET.

There is a guy testing RSI (7,1) and using a timeout. Are we supposed to just laugh or should we do some educating?

I posted a couple of posts on level 2. I have just gotten into the ball park so to speak on what used to be called "tape reading". There are 9 aspects of doing the warmup for learning to read the tape flawlessly. So why watch it since it can easily be coded and you get a sharpe ratio never seen on level 2. Should I drop down to the tick level and show how to carve turns to the tick while tape reading the level 2?

How much of the offer does a person have to take daily?

Since I problem solve and an dealing with a major world problem, I have tobe effective and efficient to get up to speed to solve the problem of PTSD. The military has decided to drop the D ..... lol But look at the larger non military part of the problem.

Anyway.... want to flesh out more of the opportunity?

ps. I needed the three apps to keep the capital in the markets. But the scalability (given the optimum fractal each has) is prettry neat on each app as they stand.

Posted by TIKITRADER on 12-29-11 10:50 PM:

Body weight/height is an old Met Life thing for insurance data purposes.
Here is the problem with BMI if you are athletic...

"One variable BMI fails to consider is lean body mass. It is possible for a healthy, muscular individual with very low body fat to be classified obese using the BMI formula. If you are a trained athlete, your weight based on your measured percent body fat would be a better indicator of what you should weigh."

also info here

http://www.thirdplanetfood.com/weight.htm
http://www.halls.md/ideal-weight/met.htm

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BMI is still valuable for quick assessment of those who are not carrying a large amount of lean mass
Very good numbers for you jh @ 22

I personally come in overweight on the BMI scale although I have an athletic build Tall and lean.

Posted by Thomas Jackson on 12-29-11 11:07 PM:

Quote from jack hershey:

Hi Hyp:

Good to see you posting.

I related how Worden's staff did the 60 plus Sharpe using the NAZ100 for a year.

A person from sunnyvale did a trading series for only 6 months but he did use a good universe and did an average hold of 6.6 days and made 11.1% a turn.

There is still some information missing in these examples.

During the beginning of my trading (1957) I had 1 out of 8 trades not go to completion because the one trade was an FBO.

at some point I began to do X over trades on stocks as a time compressor. It would be like using 3 phase 400cycle ac power and rectifying it to get a fairly smooth DC power source. Obviously if you could you would add an RLC network to polish off the job to the extent you wished. this would be a better dc Sharpe ratio dc.

In the chart I posted I showed how most beginneg stat users do backtesting on samples with timeouts for exits. That is what T666 did with a non selective anything goes non universe over five years.

we all saw that he did 24K trades and the lots averaged a 19 dollar loss. he was losing 500k and he took five years and lost an average of 19 bucks for each of his timeouts.

He didn't even get to the sweetspot for time outs and he didn't even know that. Bow wow hasn't understood T666's screwup in any way.

So there is a lot of humor on ET.

There is a guy testing RSI (7,1) and using a timeout. Are we supposed to just laugh or should we do some educating?

I posted a couple of posts on level 2. I have just gotten into the ball park so to speak on what used to be called "tape reading". There are 9 aspects of doing the warmup for learning to read the tape flawlessly. So why watch it since it can easily be coded and you get a sharpe ratio never seen on level 2. Should I drop down to the tick level and show how to carve turns to the tick while tape reading the level 2?

How much of the offer does a person have to take daily?

Since I problem solve and an dealing with a major world problem, I have tobe effective and efficient to get up to speed to solve the problem of PTSD. The military has decided to drop the D ..... lol But look at the larger non military part of the problem.

Anyway.... want to flesh out more of the opportunity?

By all means do dig down deep. I miss the old Jack where trading was simple and without the last several years of overlays. Back then I found something useful once every few years. The concept of pace stuck, in an adaptation to four levels of pace on a one-minute chart. Very handy for knowing when to walk away or post on ET, and when to get serious. And all the time I wasted on codes chasing the will'o'thewisp of DJX leading SPX was put to good use on fast correlation analyses of related instruments. But our big difference remains that I am a simple Mendelian empiricist and you are a grand Aristotelian theoretician.

Posted by jack hershey on 12-29-11 11:08 PM:

Body weight/height is an old Met Life thing for insurance data purposes.
Here is the problem with BMI if you are athletic...

"One variable BMI fails to consider is lean body mass. It is possible for a healthy, muscular individual with very low body fat to be classified obese using the BMI formula. If you are a trained athlete, your weight based on your measured percent body fat would be a better indicator of what you should weigh."

also info here

http://www.thirdplanetfood.com/weight.htm
http://www.halls.md/ideal-weight/met.htm

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BMI is still valuable for quick assessment of those who are not carrying a large amount of lean mass
Very good numbers for you jh @ 22

I personally come in overweight on the BMI scale although I have an athletic build Tall and lean.

Putting on some height was my initial challenge. I sledge-hammered my ankles then knees and hips. Next I am going to do the tp of my head to get it to be more pointed.

Posted by jack hershey on 12-29-11 11:11 PM:

Quote from Thomas Jackson:

By all means do dig down deep. I miss the old Jack where trading was simple and without the last several years of overlays. Back then I found something useful once every few years. The concept of pace stuck, in an adaptation to four levels of pace on a one-minute chart. Very handy for knowing when to walk away or post on ET, and when to get serious. And all the time I wasted on codes chasing the will'o'thewisp of DJX leading SPX was put to good use on fast correlation analyses of related instruments. But our big difference remains that I am a simple Mendelian empiricist and you are a grand Aristotelian theoretician.

Does that include that you predict and that I don't need to?

Posted by bwolinsky on 12-29-11 11:17 PM:

Quote from jack hershey:

Does that include that you predict and that I don't need to?

Or that you don't need to ever make any live calls except to lose in the only competition you've ever competed in?

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by TIKITRADER on 12-29-11 11:22 PM:

Quote from jack hershey:

Putting on some height was my initial challenge. I sledge-hammered my ankles then knees and hips. Next I am going to do the tp of my head to get it to be more pointed.

You never stop working to improve yourself...That's why I like your style.

Posted by TIKITRADER on 12-29-11 11:46 PM:

ahhhhh to be young and handsome... crazy youth

Posted by Thomas Jackson on 12-30-11 12:19 AM:

Quote from jack hershey:

Does that include that you predict and that I don't need to?

Hahahaha! My scalps are over before I could begin to key them in. Two minutes is a loooooong trade for me.

Posted by jack hershey on 12-30-11 12:32 AM:

Quote from Thomas Jackson:

Hahahaha! My scalps are over before I could begin to key them in. Two minutes is a loooooong trade for me.

Okay, you bet on the future as you see it OODA is your ticket.

I do not. I carve the turns as they come from the future into the present on their events schedule. MADA. No noise. No anomalies. No probability.

Posted by jack hershey on 12-30-11 12:38 AM:

Quote from bwolinsky:

Or that you don't need to ever make any live calls except to lose in the only competition you've ever competed in?

Yes, exactly.

My stuff when posted was "unbelievable", so I don't do anything over and over expecting a different result. Look up the definition of insanity; you keep talking and expect a different result. See if you can cure yourself.

Posted by bwolinsky on 12-30-11 01:00 AM:

Quote from jack hershey:

Yes, exactly.

My stuff when posted was "unbelievable", so I don't do anything over and over expecting a different result. Look up the definition of insanity; you keep talking and expect a different result. See if you can cure yourself.

Jack, if you have that backtest, I would love to see it.

At this point it is a figment of your imagination and grandiose exaggeration of your trading methods.

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by jack hershey on 12-30-11 01:10 AM:

Quote from bwolinsky:

Jack, if you have that backtest, I would love to see it.

At this point it is a figment of your imagination and grandiose exaggeration of your trading methods.

Google "nitro" with the word "photoshop". It is not a backtest; you made up "backtest" in your mind.

Posted by v34rm on 12-30-11 01:54 PM:

Quote from jack hershey:

It all comes down to one thing.

I'm a practicing coward who doesn't share everything freely and directly enough.

You are practicing plagiarist.....!!!!!!!

Posted by baro-san on 12-30-11 07:45 PM:

Quote from v34rm:

You are practicing plagiarist.....!!!!!!!

The anonymity of the internet emboldens people who have little or no idea about a subject to make sententious judgements and derogatory comments with no shame or reservation. Would you do it when you're among people you respect and you'd like to be respected by? If not, don't do it on the internet either!

Posted by jack hershey on 12-30-11 10:33 PM:

Quote from v34rm:

You are practicing plagiarist.....!!!!!!!

There is nothing new in trading.

Ask yourself how it would be possible for any well founded works to cease working? There is no way.

So you feel I plagiarize as a consequence of your mind set. Well for the wrong reasons, You are correct that I just do what has always been done by those who are credited with the original work.

See there names on the attached and how time worn principles came to be merged to trade the full offer of the markets.

Notice Granville and Dodd preceded the other guys.

With respect to neuroscience, I did come first but that is just a people thing and I used my inventions just to affect transference to help others who could still learn. there is no way anyone can carry a person back across the line in the sand where the mind become irreversable.

Posted by TIKITRADER on 12-30-11 11:01 PM:

The AshSniffer

Jack,

That's a great post.
This is interesting and one of the coolest things you mentioned.

Posted by jack hershey on 12-31-11 12:33 AM:

Quote from v34rm:

You are practicing plagiarist.....!!!!!!!

Murphy is a realtive newcomer as I told you the last round of your posting this under a differnt and expired alias.

I listed the people who's ideas I have incorporated.

I am not going to explain the shortcomings of Murphy's recently arrived upon the scene chart again.

You are talking out of your ass as usual; keep it up. I plagerized this sentence from someone else.

Posted by hkrahra on 12-31-11 02:07 AM:

Quote from jack hershey:

Okay, you bet on the future as you see it OODA is your ticket.

I do not. I carve the turns as they come from the future into the present on their events schedule. MADA. No noise. No anomalies. No probability.

BOes of RTL is a complete noise!

Posted by TIKITRADER on 12-31-11 02:15 AM:

Quote from hkrahra:

BOes of RTL is a complete noise!

Wear earplugs... Won't be so loud nextime

Posted by hkrahra on 12-31-11 03:07 AM:

Wear earplugs... Won't be so loud nextime

Posted by hkrahra on 12-31-11 03:21 AM:

Quote from hungunder:

So who has made any money from Jack's method in the last 10 years?

I made when i dumped BOes of RTL.The rest of his method is working fine.

Posted by Paddler on 12-31-11 04:38 AM:

Quote from hkrahra:
I made when i dumped BOes of RTL.The rest of his method is working fine.

Your trading power will skyrocket once you have a deeper understanding of BO of RTL in the whole picture of the nested Pattern.

Do not take RTL just as a line. This is a Pre-Beginner's superficial PA inference.

Think of the scenarios of price and volume which is a leading indicator of price BEFORE BO or FBO of RTL. Also, think of the same scenarios AFTER BO or FBO of RTL. Think of the importance of BO in the sequences leading to the formation of Point 2. Think of Clean Page 2. Then, think of the fractal that BO of RTL occurs.

BO of RTL is MORE than what you think.

Posted by bmwhendrix on 12-31-11 04:55 AM:

Thanks Paddler. I get it now! Why did Jack not put it so succinctly?

Posted by hkrahra on 12-31-11 05:31 AM:

you guys are 2 dolts!

Posted by hkrahra on 12-31-11 05:37 AM:

another dolt is 'humburger' who didnt get a SiNGLE bit of it!

Posted by v34rm on 12-31-11 09:27 AM:

Quote from jack hershey:

Murphy is a realtive newcomer as I told you the last round of your posting this under a differnt and expired alias.

I listed the people who's ideas I have incorporated.

I am not going to explain the shortcomings of Murphy's recently arrived upon the scene chart again.

You are talking out of your ass as usual; keep it up. I plagerized this sentence from someone else.

Posted by Paddler on 12-31-11 01:19 PM:

Quote from bmwhendrix:
Thanks Paddler. I get it now! Why did Jack not put it so succinctly?

Good for you.

But I am confused. I thought you did not believe in this 'gibberish'. It takes brain to learn to see.

Posted by bmwhendrix on 12-31-11 02:10 PM:

It's called sarcasm.

Posted by bmwhendrix on 12-31-11 03:11 PM:

I'm bored this morning, so I will offer this to the newbies.

Volume is to price as gas is to a car.

Volume is to price movement as the gas pedal is to the speedometer.

Jack and is followers make the childish leap in logic to:

Volume and price are to directional movement as

gas and gas pedal are to a car's direction.

The childish mind accepts this, but it is absolutely wrong.

The steering wheel is not in this equation.

That is why they are not profitable.

Lacking the ability to comprehend this flawed logic, they struggle to justify/prove it is correct. Something like: You just need the correct fractal to see the correlation . Then you must understand the proper placement of that revealing fractal in the overall picture. They diagram out their flawed logic, but the childish mind is not able to transcend beyond the flawed premise.

Simply put, many things can affect volume and many things can affect price movement. Sometimes they plot so as to appear as supporting correlations, but alas, like tick, trin and a host of other byproducts, the predictive element does not present itself as the childish mind thinks it should.

There is only one truth that is needed.

Ok, this should garner a new response from a child mind, perhaps a new diagram or a "you hurt my ego" pseudo intellectual rant.

Hope you all have a Happy New Year.

Posted by nkhoi on 12-31-11 03:34 PM:

Quote from bmwhendrix:

It's called sarcasm.

thnx for clearing that up, it's hard enough to keep track of who really needs some info.

Posted by bmwhendrix on 12-31-11 03:38 PM:

I am always open to helpful info, just not much into fiction these days.

Posted by baro-san on 12-31-11 07:39 PM:

Let 2012 be the year when all Hershey's followers see the LIGHT! And his detractors too! Happy New Year!

Posted by MarketMasher on 12-31-11 08:19 PM:

Pinky says:

"You have to become motive with the momentum, because there is a moment when the momentum starts momentuming, and then becomes momentus. At that moment, there is a momentary motion where the momentum alters in momentum and that is the crucial moment."

And

`Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.

That is all.

Happy New Year to everyone except those who don't want one!!

It's Pinky and the Brain, Brain, Brain, Brain, Brain, Brain, Brain....

Posted by TIKITRADER on 12-31-11 09:47 PM:

Wiff the ass sniffing inch worm says :

Happy New Year Pinky ,
Happy New Year Everyone !

Posted by Paddler on 01-01-12 01:27 AM:

Quote from bmwhendrix:
It's called sarcasm.

For some people, it is better to be simple simon. Remain as you are.

Posted by bwolinsky on 01-01-12 02:06 AM:

More messages deleted by the worthless mod, nkhoi.

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by nkhoi on 01-01-12 02:22 AM:

Quote from bwolinsky:

More messages deleted by the worthless mod, nkhoi.

I will say it again you are ignorant of how ET works.

Posted by bwolinsky on 01-01-12 04:42 PM:

Quote from nkhoi:

I will say it again you are ignorant of how ET works.

Actually, I just mixed up the two threads on Jack Hershey. You did not delete the message I thought you did, because it was in another thread and I confused the two.

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by TIKITRADER on 01-02-12 03:02 AM:

A sincere Happy New Year to you Jack .
Thanks for the many years of posting your method.
All the best .

Posted by hkrahra on 01-02-12 04:22 AM:

hi tiki!

yeah,me too.have a nice year, Jack.spend time wisely.

Posted by hkrahra on 01-02-12 05:22 AM:

Quote from baro-san:

Let 2012 be the year when all Hershey's followers see the LIGHT! And his detractors too! Happy New Year!

heya baro,you too!may you finally break through the 100K limit bar this year.good luck!

Posted by TIKITRADER on 01-02-12 06:20 PM:

Quote from hkrahra:

hi tiki!

yeah,me too.have a nice year, Jack.spend time wisely.

Happy New Year to you too hkrahra

Healthy New Year to you.

Posted by TIKITRADER on 01-02-12 07:22 PM:

Jack, is there an ideal between 1 -2 2- 3 to define the terminal point.
I am talking about the southern hemisphere where grains of sand build castles some of which have towers of varying heights that rise from moats that can be easily crossed when levels are low.
It is from the highest of castle peaks of which the forests can be seen clearly and a change in paths can be mapped to follow. It is here to witness tens of thousands of knights fall and a few witty men will survive.
Climbing from tower to tower can be achieved by determining the ideal lengths of hair.
Beware of the imp that spins gold... a confused drinker is he

Posted by jack hershey on 01-03-12 12:53 AM:

Happy New Year everyone.

Be cool.

Posted by TIKITRADER on 01-03-12 11:42 AM:

Jack, is there an ideal % to define the terminal point.

Posted by MarketMasher on 01-03-12 08:02 PM:

Everybody missed that my post clarifying the point of jumping 200 ft and flying included a classic movie line...

I precede and end with "You follow?..."

That's right out of THE STING!!!

When the Robert Shaw character talks to the Redford character, he adds that line afterward.

It's fkin' BRILLIANT writing, because with 2 words he makes you HATE him immediately for being such a pompous ass!!

Based on the reaction it got, I'd say it works! Fkin' BRILLIANT writing!!!

Posted by hkrahra on 01-04-12 01:44 AM:

Jack, is there an ideal % to define the terminal point.

Tiki,did you solve that 3 towers theorem?I think the problem is not in towers.The key is in the GATE!

Posted by TIKITRADER on 01-05-12 03:28 AM:

Quote from hkrahra:

Tiki,did you solve that 3 towers theorem?I think the problem is not in towers.The key is in the GATE!

So busy chasing that little blonde in the towers I never noticed
the key was in the gate
I could have just walked right on in

Posted by hkrahra on 01-05-12 05:21 AM:

you can count on a drawbridge that before the gate as well.

btw i think Jack is hiding in the tower #3,and he usually lift that drawbridge before the sundown...

...or when you ask him a question...

Posted by MarketMasher on 01-05-12 05:22 AM:

"Ya Follah?"

Fkin CLASSIC!!!

Posted by TIKITRADER on 01-05-12 03:24 PM:

Quote from hkrahra:

you can count on a drawbridge that before the gate as well.

btw i think Jack is hiding in the tower #3,and he usually lift that drawbridge before the sundown...

...or when you ask him a question...

I'm just trying to find the bridge...
Has anybody seen the bridge?

bridge ?
"Where's that confounded bridge?"

Posted by TIKITRADER on 01-05-12 07:24 PM:

* PrP
* DOM Worm
* Castle towers,motes, gates, drawbridges, forests, and ????

Posted by baro-san on 01-16-12 10:39 PM:

FTT to FTT long

Posted by hkrahra on 01-31-12 09:47 AM:

"""The first event is the open, the second event is the beginning of the midday lull. The last mentioned event was a described event that ends the midday lull. Market PACE is involved and those with lessor skills and knowledge are ineligible to trade during some periods."""

Jack, do you change the displays at each event,like i change my ancient socks at noon and in the morning?

Posted by bwolinsky on 02-01-12 02:11 AM:

Quote from Panlipsonam:

As always..

or STFU

You're My Motherfucker. SHOW ME THE MONEY!!

Congratulations, Jack Hershey is not my agent, and has never made a dime trading.

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Posted by hkrahra on 02-04-12 02:18 PM:

Losa.. You lost you panny with sct,I see...

Posted by hkrahra on 02-05-12 03:15 AM:

"""""""Since I believe the trading fractal must be surrounded by a slower fractal and a faster fractal, there are three interlocking fractals on which Doms and non-doms are seen and annotated.""""""""

Can anyone please bring an example of one on one corresponding annotation of Doms and non-doms on three fractals?I especially would like to know how slower to trading fractal relationship.

Jack,teach me tonight,baby.

Posted by bmwhendrix on 02-05-12 03:44 AM:

Quote from hkrahra:

"""""""Since I believe the trading fractal must be surrounded by a slower fractal and a faster fractal, there are three interlocking fractals on which Doms and non-doms are seen and annotated.""""""""

Can anyone please bring an example of one on one corresponding annotation of Doms and non-doms on three fractals?I especially would like to know how slower to trading fractal relationship.

Jack,teach me tonight,baby.

Why is it that you "believe" that the trading fractal must be surrounded by a faster and slower one?

Backtesting?

Observation?

Makes sense?

I am asking seriously, since this is a commonly stated concept.

Posted by hkrahra on 02-05-12 03:49 AM:

Quote from bmwhendrix:

Backtesting

Observation

Makes sense

Posted by bmwhendrix on 02-05-12 04:01 AM:

Commonly stated, but basically flawed. Attracts the mentally weak.

Posted by hkrahra on 02-05-12 04:03 AM:

Quote from bmwhendrix:

Why is it that you "believe" that the trading fractal must be surrounded by a faster and slower one?

Backtesting?

Observation?

Makes sense?

I am asking seriously, since this is a commonly stated concept.

A slower fractal you`d need for the sustaining purpose.It tells you: ''hey,i`m seriuos to go long/short!''

A faster fractal you`d need for the precise entries.

You leave a trading fractal alone.All you need from a trading fractal is its ftt(s).

What i was trying to ask was - how many trading fractals could be within the slower fractal,and what should i do to find it out.Is there one pager for 'slower-trading' annotation? I believe the answer in volume,but i`d like to see it visually from those who`s mastered this part of MADA.

Posted by hkrahra on 02-05-12 04:08 AM:

Quote from bmwhendrix:

Attracts the mentally weak.

Posted by bmwhendrix on 02-05-12 04:19 AM:

Thanks for the response. The problem that I have with this is that it assumes that the slower fractal will continue. You enter on the faster fractal, but find that the trading fractal is actually signaling a reversal on the slower one. You lose. This happens as often as does continuation on the slower fractal. or a fake on the slower fractal.

Think about it. How many moving average systems have used this concept, or others with various indicators. As long as the slower one is moving in a general direction in a relaxed manner, and you are not constantly stopped out on the faster fractal, it works for a while.
But eventually things go sideways, or chop on the slower fractal, and it all goes to hell. Think about it.

Posted by hkrahra on 02-05-12 04:42 AM:

Quote from bmwhendrix:

Thanks for the response. The problem that I have with this is that it assumes that the slower fractal will continue. You enter on the faster fractal, but find that the trading fractal is actually signaling a reversal on the slower one. You lose. This happens as often as does continuation on the slower fractal. or a fake on the slower fractal.

Think about it. How many moving average systems have used this concept, or others with various indicators. As long as the slower one is moving in a general direction in a relaxed manner, and you are not constantly stopped out on the faster fractal, it works for a while.
But eventually things go sideways, or chop on the slower fractal, and it all goes to hell. Think about it.

yvw

''''''''You enter on the faster fractal, but find that the trading fractal is actually signaling a reversal on the slower one.'''''''

Not sure what you were trying to describe.But,as Jack previously stated,all trends do begin on the faster fractal,so you anticipate the impending end on a slower fractal,bookmark it,and enter on a faster - this is ftt of the trading.Next you hold through the whole trading fractal to the ftt.This is the point where i lose connection with WMCN.I know that it is the first leg of the slower,i know that a trading fractal went from ftt to ftt and,i also know that WMCN may be either reverse or continuation,so i exit. The faster fractal could run away so fast,that you would miss the end of the slower fractal.I guess the clue might be in sub and sub-sub fractals.

'''''''''But eventually things go sideways, or chop on the slower fractal, and it all goes to hell. Think about it.'''''''''

No,there is never a chop on the slower fractal,as it is always enough in magnitude.You choose the slower with enough magnitude in the first place.

Posted by hkrahra on 02-05-12 06:31 AM:

Jack,don`t you know i`m still standing better than i ever did?
Looking like a true survivor,feeling like a little kid.

Where is my 5 books suit godamit!!!

Posted by bmwhendrix on 02-05-12 01:43 PM:

Two more reasons why the system is flawed:

One: Fractals morph. What you may be calling the slow fractal today, with say a given level of volatility, range, volume, etc. may have morphed into your trading fractal or some other in a month or 2. Think about it. This is why moving average systems do not work, because the "proper" ma is always changing as the fractals morph.

Two: There is indeed chop on all fractals, remember that they morph.
Think about this. The market does not always know what it wants to do. There are times that there is not a majority of the market players
with a given bias. The market is just people, not an elaborate equation slowly unveiling itself. In these times the random element of movement which is always present to some degree becomes more pronounced. Think about it.

Just trying to keep you and others from wasting your time. That is all you really have in life.

My work is done. Good luck.

Posted by TIKITRADER on 02-05-12 03:38 PM:

Quote from bmwhendrix:

Just trying to keep you and others from wasting your time. That is all you really have in life.

Tired of lying in the sunshine staying home to watch the rain.
You are young and life is long and there is time to kill today.
And then one day you find ten years have got behind you.
No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun.

So you run and you run to catch up with the sun but it's sinking
Racing around to come up behind you again.
The sun is the same in a relative way but you're older,
Shorter of breath and one day closer to death.

Posted by MarketMasher on 02-05-12 05:00 PM:

Pinky is reciting from memory.....

Gather ye rosebuds while ye may,
Old time is a-flying,
And this same flower that smiles today,
Tomorrow will be dying.

The glorious lamp of Heaven, the sun,
The higher he's a-getting,
The sooner will his race be run,
And nearer he is to setting.

That time is best which is the first,
When youth and blood are warmer,
But being spent, the worse, and worst
Times still succeed the former.

So be not coy, but use your Time,
And while ye may, go marry,
For having lost but once your prime,
Ye may forever tarry.

Posted by hkrahra on 02-05-12 09:51 PM:

Quote from bmwhendrix:

Two more reasons why the system is flawed:

One: Fractals morph. What you may be calling the slow fractal today, with say a given level of volatility, range, volume, etc. may have morphed into your trading fractal or some other in a month or 2. Think about it. This is why moving average systems do not work, because the "proper" ma is always changing as the fractals morph.

Two: There is indeed chop on all fractals, remember that they morph.
Think about this. The market does not always know what it wants to do. There are times that there is not a majority of the market players
with a given bias. The market is just people, not an elaborate equation slowly unveiling itself. In these times the random element of movement which is always present to some degree becomes more pronounced. Think about it.

Just trying to keep you and others from wasting your time. That is all you really have in life.

My work is done. Good luck.

Up to seven fractals,as Jack droped elsewhere.

No,there is never a chop on the slower ones.NEVER.

Posted by hkrahra on 02-05-12 10:17 PM:

Quote from hkrahra:

Up to seven fractals,as Jack droped elsewhere.

No,there is never a chop on the slower ones.NEVER.

From one fractal on CL i see M1 is established,M2 would probably be around .60 cents.Is .60 enough?I think so.Ask NoDojic

Posted by TIKITRADER on 02-05-12 10:30 PM:

fitty cent there tupac

Posted by hkrahra on 02-06-12 12:08 AM:

fitty cent there tupac

Would 60 cents on crude be enough to buy thick coat by the Coach?

Posted by Wide Tailz on 02-06-12 12:30 AM:

All this fractal talk has me thinking of the lazy man's trend detection method: 10 EMA, 50 & 200 SMA and price position with respect to each.

It's all pretty much the same idea: trends within trends. Ripples within waves within tides.

You don't have to train like a zen buddhist or a ninja to use MA's, however.

Posted by hkrahra on 02-06-12 12:38 AM:

Quote from Wide Tailz:

All this fractal talk has me thinking of the lazy man's trend detection method: 10 EMA, 50 & 200 SMA and price position with respect to each.

It's all pretty much the same idea: trends within trends. Ripples within waves within tides.

You don't have to train like a zen buddhist or a ninja to use MA's, however.

Ahahahahahahahahha

Posted by hkrahra on 02-06-12 02:36 AM:

Quote from hkrahra:

From one fractal on CL i see M1 is established,M2 would probably be around .60 cents.Is .60 enough?I think so.Ask NoDojic

M2 at its best

.60 cents done

aaaaaha

Posted by hkrahra on 02-06-12 02:46 AM:

Does anyone know what the Hershey hinges are??

Posted by hkrahra on 02-06-12 03:04 AM:

fagot get lost fagot.no one wants you anymore,fagot!

Posted by Paddler on 02-06-12 06:00 AM:

Quote from hkrahra:
Does anyone know what the Hershey hinges are??

Imagine you hold a OHLC price bar in front of a mirror. In a Hershey Hinge of a pair of adjacent bars, the price bar you see in the mirror is like the adjacent bar and the bar on your hand is the prior bar.

Hershey Hinge is in most cases a very strong signal that fast fractal sentiment has changed. The why is that during the mutation of adjacent bar of Hershey Hinge, Intra Bar Gaussian Shift IBGS has occurred.

QED

Posted by hkrahra on 02-06-12 06:27 AM:

Imagine you hold a OHLC price bar in front of a mirror. In a Hershey Hinge of a pair of adjacent bars, the price bar you see in the mirror is like the adjacent bar and the bar on your hand is the prior bar.

Hershey Hinge is in most cases a very strong signal that fast fractal sentiment has changed. The why is that during the mutation of adjacent bar of Hershey Hinge, Intra Bar Gaussian Shift IBGS has occurred.

QED

What kind of bs is that??

Imagine olhc in front of a mirror....what i hold in my hand and what is in the mirror is the Hitch,even harmonic...

wtf!

Posted by hkrahra on 02-06-12 06:42 AM:

Quote from Hasparahte:

"Rocket" equity curve:

"P,V Boolean relation" equity curve:

[/B][/QUOTE]

yo fag!

Posted by Paddler on 02-06-12 12:08 PM:

Quote from hkrahra:

wtf!

Posted by hkrahra on 02-06-12 12:20 PM:

Oh,thank you sir!

Posted by Paddler on 02-06-12 12:50 PM:

.

Posted by hkrahra on 02-06-12 12:55 PM:

.

Volume at a trough,after peaking,correct?

I'm working on multifractal display now btw

Posted by hkrahra on 02-06-12 01:15 PM:

.

Your ftt isn't correct on the pic.The second bar is ftt.But in this case the hitch is one bar,so the ftt mark should be placed in the middle.

Posted by Paddler on 02-06-12 01:55 PM:

Quote from hkrahra:

Your ftt isn't correct on the pic.The second bar is ftt.

Look at the fast fractal LTL and think.

But in this case the hitch is one bar,

Maybe, for beginners. When you are more conscious and sharp, you want to look at the volume changes inside the Hitch to KNOW whether you have a change of sentiment or bar-equivalent (no change of sentiment).

BTW do not be too rigid. OB, stitch, or translated adjacent bars can form a HH too.

so the ftt mark should be placed in the middle.

Any reason not P V-related is not a good reason.

Posted by Paddler on 02-06-12 02:06 PM:

Quote from hkrahra:

Volume at a trough,after peaking,correct?

I'm working on multifractal display now btw

If you can put the pieces together on your above question and more later on based on my illustration, you are going to be Mr \$\$\$.

The trolls must be very angry but they can fucking dream.

Posted by TIKITRADER on 02-06-12 02:19 PM:

Quote from hkrahra:

Your ftt isn't correct on the pic.The second bar is ftt.But in this case the hitch is one bar,so the ftt mark should be placed in the middle.

Posted by Paddler on 02-07-12 10:29 AM:

Quote from jalokialaz:
You are getting slaughtered..

Nope.

and now you are so frozen you can't pull the trigger on Jack's river of shit because you don't trust it.. that's why you can't show the money

Nope. Trading is easy and almost certain.

Don't worry, we've seen this before many many many times over and over and over again

You are limping down a well worn path

You can keep fucking dreaming. Loser, we all know that you are talking about yourself.

Posted by nkhoi on 02-14-12 01:37 AM:

Ha ha.. ...p

ha ha... and goodbye you crazy cut & paste man.

Posted by R. Raskolnikov on 02-14-12 02:08 AM:

'Skilled' in English perhaps?

And you are not skill in English Dave.. otherwise.....

Posted by Paddler on 02-14-12 02:18 AM:

Ha ha.. Piddler packed up his ball and went home after the early year culling of the Jackobites..

Trust Mr Market to finally get the message across

Still can't figure out how to use JHM to make easy money? Need my help? I am a positive guy. That is how I read your message, LOL. If you cry louder and more frequently, I may have a soft-heart for you, LOL.

Posted by RCG Trader on 03-04-12 09:19 AM:

Quote from Bangonright:

Ha ha.. you losers are getting slaughtered and have shut up shop

And poor old Piddler is so shell shocked and frightened he's turned off his PM's because evidently I get to him

You don't get to anyone, you pitiful nutbird

Price and Volume relationship at TL, check it out. Been on the front page for years

Posted by Paddler on 03-05-12 01:20 AM:

You don't get to anyone, you pitiful nutbird

Price and Volume relationship at TL, check it out. Been on the front page for years

LOL. Some people just can not get it. Too bad.

Posted by d08 on 03-05-12 01:26 AM:

.

That's just basically a modified engulfing, a very common candlestick pattern if you had done any reading. It has little to no edge when backtested, next you will talk about me needing to apply some Hershey magic methods which cannot be tested, don't bother.

Posted by Paddler on 03-05-12 02:37 AM:

Quote from d08:

That's just basically a modified engulfing, a very common candlestick pattern if you had done any reading. It has little to no edge when backtested, next you will talk about me needing to apply some Hershey magic methods which cannot be tested, don't bother.

LOL. How long have you been stuck on assessment?

Posted by Nebuchadnezzar on 03-07-12 01:07 AM:

You don't get to anyone, you pitiful nutbird

Price and Volume relationship at TL, check it out. Been on the front page for years

and yet it still doesn't work, isn't it funny?

Posted by baro-san on 03-07-12 01:21 AM:

You don't get to anyone, you pitiful nutbird

Price and Volume relationship at TL, check it out. Been on the front page for years

and yet it still doesn't work, isn't it funny?

Somebody's trash is another's treasure.

Posted by R. Raskolnikov on 03-07-12 01:54 AM:

Price and Volume don't work?? Hmmm, I better re-evaluate my last 14 years of trading then! LOL

and yet it still doesn't work, isn't it funny?

Posted by R. Raskolnikov on 03-07-12 02:59 AM:

I DON'T trade anyone's method but my own, but I use price and volume. I cannot speak for Jack and have no idea who "todd" is but I have been trading since 1998 and certain price and volume sequences work just the same then as they do now.

You'll have to investigate on your own. Not saying it's easy, but consistent and tradeable sequences are there, each and every day.

the argument you, jack and todd present is silly: " I say that I am making money, therefore it is true".

my argument has more substance: "Check all the charts posted on ET and TL, the annotations on them anticipate what is coming next on the following day based on trader's resolution. Every single one of them including those posted by todd fail to anticipate the correct order of events. Therefore none of you people can correctly identify p1, p2 and p3 on any fractal. The argument that anybody is making money with it is silly.

for years people wanted real time calls from hershey or his herd, it is silly to ask for those when one can simply take the charts posted and degap them, -- the anticipated order of events never follows

therefore none of you assholes make any money

QED

Posted by Nebuchadnezzar on 03-07-12 03:51 AM:

Quote from baro-san:

and yet it still doesn't work, isn't it funny?

Somebody's trash is another's treasure. [/QUOTE]lets agree to disa gree on everything except the simple truth of the matter: " If the trader is not capable of identifying where they are in the order of events on their respective trading fractal,- they are not gonna make money"

If you are willing to accept this simple truth a priori , then go find some consecutive charts posted by todd and try to find one where r2r or b2b from the previous day was followed by 2b2r or 2r2b on the next day.

After completing this simple drill, if you are still convinced there may be some treasure in this garbage, then I failed to communicate

Posted by Nebuchadnezzar on 03-07-12 03:52 AM:

removing my posts i see,, -- that'sreally silly

Posted by Nebuchadnezzar on 03-07-12 04:01 AM:

Somebody's trash is another's treasure.

lets agree to disa gree on everything except the simple truth of the matter: " If the trader is not capable of identifying where they are in the order of events on their respective trading fractal,- they are not gonna make money"

If you are willing to accept this simple truth a priori , then go find some consecutive charts posted by todd and try to find one where r2r or b2b from the previous day was followed by 2b2r or 2r2b on the next day.

After completing this simple drill, if you are still convinced there may be some treasure in this garbage, then I failed to communicate [/B][/QUOTE]the trader annotates his chart with b2b upon the market has reached a certain point in the order of events, what follows does so always and without exception.

If they trader placed the gaussian annotations in the volume pane, he or she knows with certainty what is coming next

there are no guesses no maybe's, the outcome is known in advance

whenever you see b2b annotated correctly, 2b2r will always follow

Posted by Nebuchadnezzar on 03-07-12 04:04 AM:

lets agree to disa gree on everything except the simple truth of the matter: " If the trader is not capable of identifying where they are in the order of events on their respective trading fractal,- they are not gonna make money"

If you are willing to accept this simple truth a priori , then go find some consecutive charts posted by todd and try to find one where r2r or b2b from the previous day was followed by 2b2r or 2r2b on the next day.

After completing this simple drill, if you are still convinced there may be some treasure in this garbage, then I failed to communicate

the trader annotates his chart with b2b upon the market has reached a certain point in the order of events, what follows does so always and without exception.

If they trader placed the gaussian annotations in the volume pane, he or she knows with certainty what is coming next

there are no guesses no maybe's, the outcome is known in advance

whenever you see b2b annotated correctly, 2b2r will always follow [/B][/QUOTE]

with that in mind examine todds charts for consistency

the person claims to be able to do such and such tasks, and yet the charts posted indicate quite the opposite

in fact locate all his charts and see if any b2b's or r2r's were followed by the anticipated market action on the next day

Posted by ocean5 on 03-07-12 04:07 AM:

lets agree to disa gree on everything except the simple truth of the matter: " If the trader is not capable of identifying where they are in the order of events on their respective trading fractal,- they are not gonna make money"

If you are willing to accept this simple truth a priori , then go find some consecutive charts posted by todd and try to find one where r2r or b2b from the previous day was followed by 2b2r or 2r2b on the next day.

After completing this simple drill, if you are still convinced there may be some treasure in this garbage, then I failed to communicate

the trader annotates his chart with b2b upon the market has reached a certain point in the order of events, what follows does so always and without exception.

If they trader placed the gaussian annotations in the volume pane, he or she knows with certainty what is coming next

there are no guesses no maybe's, the outcome is known in advance

whenever you see b2b annotated correctly, 2b2r will always follow [/B][/QUOTE]

Enter only @ .75 deciles in the tail.It`s a big secret, i`m telling ya...

Posted by ocean5 on 03-07-12 04:09 AM:

my ash is OFFFFF!!!

Posted by baro-san on 03-08-12 01:11 AM:

... with that in mind examine todds charts for consistency

the person claims to be able to do such and such tasks, and yet the charts posted indicate quite the opposite

in fact locate all his charts and see if any b2b's or r2r's were followed by the anticipated market action on the next day

It seems that you use anticipated with a different meaning that I'd use it in relation to Hershey's method. Maybe here's gist of our different experiences with this method. As you say that you see the same thing on all his charts, it should be easy for you to post a two day example where the sequence failed.

Posted by MarketMasher on 03-08-12 06:42 PM:

I called the low in the morning today using the PinkyBlue.

Did anyone see the sell-off that happened 2 days ago coming?

Pinky did.

I don't have time to post charts, but I say so, so believe it.

Posted by RedDuke on 03-08-12 08:42 PM:

Not sure if it was done yet, but I can fully automate it.

Someone need to list the exact rules. I have ES 5 min data going back to March 2007. So we can back test it, and once and for all give the answer if it works or not.

Posted by ocean5 on 03-08-12 09:11 PM:

Quote from RedDuke:

Not sure if it was done yet, but I can fully automate it.

Someone need to list the exact rules. I have ES 5 min data going back to March 2007. So we can back test it, and once and for all give the answer if it works or not.

Alway wondered,wht`s the point to monitor MULTIPLE instruments with the same strategy/indicator!!!What`s the frakin POINT!!!

Posted by MarketMasher on 03-08-12 09:22 PM:

Quote from RedDuke:

Not sure if it was done yet, but I can fully automate it.

Someone need to list the exact rules. I have ES 5 min data going back to March 2007. So we can back test it, and once and for all give the answer if it works or not.

I do my own coding for the PinkyBlue - so I guess you are talking about the JH method.

Wow - what an opportunity to have it laid out in discrete, unambiguous language!!

I would help, but I don't know WTF they're talking about...

Posted by baro-san on 03-08-12 09:47 PM:

Quote from RedDuke:

Not sure if it was done yet, but I can fully automate it.

Someone need to list the exact rules. I have ES 5 min data going back to March 2007. So we can back test it, and once and for all give the answer if it works or not.

This sounds like a phishing email I just received:

Dear Sir/ma

Due to the congestion in all our users and removal of all unused Accounts, We would be shutting down all unused Account. You will have to confirm your Account by filling out your Information below after clicking the reply button

After following the instructions in the sheet, your Account will continue as normal. Thanks for your attention to this request. We apologize for any inconveniences.
Thank you
Warning Code:VY2E96AAh

Posted by MarketMasher on 03-09-12 02:32 AM:

The exact rules should be easy enough for someone who really knows the system to lay out.

Ever read "Street Smarts" by Raschke and Connors? It's several bullet points per setup (usually they give the Buy-side rules and just say "reverse for shorts").

For instance, because I know the PinkyBlue code, I could articulate very concisely what the rules are.

So it will be really interesting to see how the experts in the JH system pitch in and show the world some Awesomeness!!

Posted by Nebuchadnezzar on 03-09-12 03:42 AM:

Quote from MarketMasher:

So it will be really interesting to see how the experts in the JH system pitch in and show the world some Awesomeness!!

They will not. They prefer to support learning simply by claiming 3X ATR daily like paddler and such

Posted by Nebuchadnezzar on 03-09-12 06:02 AM:

Quote from RedDuke:

Not sure if it was done yet, but I can fully automate it.

Someone need to list the exact rules. I have ES 5 min data going back to March 2007. So we can back test it, and once and for all give the answer if it works or not.

The rules are very simple: enter on ftt, monitor for change or continuation on your trading fractal, reverse if what must come next doesn't, add contracts as needed, wash , rinse, repeat, teach others to make 3 times daily range. Those rules are the ones that you need to hear as opposed to those that you want to hear.

Stop phishing.

Do the work.

Posted by MarketMasher on 03-09-12 02:11 PM:

The rules are very simple: enter on ftt, monitor for change or continuation on your trading fractal, reverse if what must come next doesn't, add contracts as needed, wash , rinse, repeat, teach others to make 3 times daily range. Those rules are the ones that you need to hear as opposed to those that you want to hear.

Stop phishing.

Do the work.

Pinky has done work. On the PinkyBlue.

Thanks to his Herculean efforts, he can now see inside the bars.

This was not easy, as it required a brilliantly inspired modification to what at first blush is a nondescript item.

I think in the JH, the trader is supposed to monitor the bracketing fractals in the JH method also, but I should let the experts articulate the real rules cogently and concisely.

Posted by nkhoi on 03-09-12 10:10 PM:

a little correction, I thought American usually goes for oak tree for this kind of talk, as far as banana goes;
Yes Bananas have vestigial seeds(non-productive), If you slice it in half you will see the little specks(seeds) in the middle.

Bananas do not grow from those seeds though, they grow from off-shoots of existing banana plant roots.

now back to regular program.

Posted by ocean5 on 03-09-12 10:19 PM:

Vedas wasn`t invented,it was hand written by Srila Vyasadeva ~~5000 years ago in Bhadarikashram(3800m),as it was a 'vestibule' of the Kali Yuga - degradation age.In the past Yugas(epoches) there was no need to write Vedas as the people had an excellent memory,and now we can`t remember what was a minute ago.So it was written specifically for the degenerates like us in Kali.

Posted by ocean5 on 03-09-12 10:29 PM:

http://atma.in.ua/news_cont.php?id_news=52

If you are interested,this man(Atma) is forming a group to India (Bhadarikashram among them, btw) in september.Or you can find a similar at your location,i believe.

Posted by ocean5 on 03-09-12 10:45 PM:

''And yes having an excellent memory is an advantage. I memorized the the logic systems for the 701, 702 and 705. This menant I could trouble shoot mainframes in final tests by directing techies to the correct pluggable unit to make repairs. I reduced the RAM drive testing to 2 1/2 hours off MF instead of 2 1/2 days on MF.''

There is an answer for this,too.It is all about your Karma.You then seems did a lot of pious deeds in your previous lives.The Samskara(experience,impressions from the previuos lives)always point you to the correct way.Mine however is not.LoL, well,lets say not aIways.I have some folks that i considered dumb in the past,but they prosper and cool.t`s not about me dumb and you smart.It`s more about who deserves what.

Posted by ocean5 on 03-09-12 11:08 PM:

''What you say is probably true. I never keep anything, but rather, give it away.

Our trip around the world involves 6 couples. Picking up the tab is not a concern for me since I just continue to extract capital from markets to solve problems.

We had a get acquainted diner in early Feb..... It was so cool for them to be meeting each other. The itinerary was something they all appreciated in terms of personal life goals.

the dumb/smart is not in my space too much. It just happens and being in balance is where its at.''

Vedas say so.I recognize its authority and am trying to obey its instruction.Not always i can do so,since i`m a Kali degen child,but this is an excuse and i shouldn`t think so!LoL...

There is could only one problem be that needs to be solved.To get back Home.Though if you can solve some interim,less important problems on the road,and you do so to help people - Ki Jai to you!!!

Posted by ocean5 on 03-10-12 12:19 AM:

''...and the many fractals of the market are perfectly interlocked using the SINGLE PATTERN....the middle P's are an overlapping identity.''

may i ask one question?are there ALWAYS ABC formation on both ends of the overlap?

Posted by MarketMasher on 03-10-12 12:22 AM:

Quote from ocean5:

the dumb/smart is not in my space too much. It just happens and being in balance is where its at.''

There is could only one problem be that needs to be solved.To get back Home.

We all end up back home. And calling other people dumb is to call yourself dumb. Don't you remember?

Posted by ocean5 on 03-10-12 12:28 AM:

Quote from MarketMasher:

We all end up back home. And calling other people dumb is to call yourself dumb. Don't you remember?

Oh,Pinky...hi!Unfortunately,not all.Devine Shakti is not a cheap.But being in this rude shell called ''a body'' is a terrific chance for us.Imagine 8M forms of life out there.

Posted by MarketMasher on 03-10-12 04:37 AM:

Quote from ocean5:

Oh,Pinky...hi!Unfortunately,not all.Devine Shakti is not a cheap.But being in this rude shell called ''a body'' is a terrific chance for us.Imagine 8M forms of life out there.

Don't fret. If you'll recall, it's not the answer that matters at all. It's the way you get to the answer.

And there is only 1 way to get there.

Posted by RedDuke on 03-10-12 08:27 PM:

Quote from baro-san:

This sounds like a phishing email I just received:

Dude,

Unless you being sarcastic (use of similes helps), you are a bit paranoid. It is a publicly listed method, and I have no interest in collecting all the rules/nuances, but willing to code to prove its validity.

redduke

Posted by MarketMasher on 03-11-12 04:06 AM:

Quote from RedDuke:

Dude,

Unless you being sarcastic (use of similes helps), you are a bit paranoid. It is a publicly listed method, and I have no interest in collecting all the rules/nuances, but willing to code to prove its validity.

redduke

That is very generous. Before I figured out how to code the PinkyBlue, I would have jumped at the chance to have someone else do the work of grinding out the code as Pinky and the Brain were plotting to rule the world....

There certainly must be plenty who are newer to the JH method who will shortly be chiming in with ardent alacrity to delineate the wherefores and whatofs they have thus far gleaned from the fractal firmament of fecundity.

Wait... I think I hear the stampede of them now!

Posted by ocean5 on 03-11-12 05:40 AM:

DUDE

Posted by MarketMasher on 03-11-12 09:33 PM:

Here is an excellent article! Excellent because it does NOT contain the question, "Does your guru want TO RULE THE WORLD?"

So Pinky and the Brain are both definitely NOT presenting themselves as gurus. At a score of 0, they are more like Mother Theresa...

However, because of their modesty, we know them merely as, Pinky and the Brain, Brain, Brain, Brain, Brain, Brain, Brain....

--------------------------------------------------------------

Does Your Financial Guru or Doomster Resemble A Cult?
By Cassandra Does Tokyo

Does your financial Guru or Doomster resemble a cult? To satisfy your curiosity, it might be worth taking simple test
that will give you an idea whether what you thought was innocent objective altruistic financial advice and unbiased analysis

1. Does your Guru always make out like he’s right?

2. Does you Guru paint a picture that the other [non-disciples] are always wrong?

3. Is there any exit from the Guru’s philosophy without following the philosophy?

4. Does the Guru’s group use its own “Cult-speak”?

5. Does “group-think” dominate, suppressing dissent and enforcing conformity of thinking?

7. Does Guru’s philosophy suppress disbelief?

8. Does Guru’s philosophy denigrate competing ideas, schools of thought, and other Guru’s?

9. Does Guru make personal attacks upon critics?

10. Does Guru believe non-followers need “fixing”?

11. Does Guru insist that his interpretation is the only correct way?

12. Does Guru and his disciples make you feel that by following you are “special”?

13. Is Guru’s philosophy an unquestionable dogma, sacred science, or infallible ideology?

14. Does Guru’s philosophy appeal to perceived unquestionable authorities ?

15. Does following Guru confer a feeling of “instant community”?

17. Does your Guru use personal testimonies of the success of earlier converts to validate advice?

19. Are there potential dual purposes, hidden agendas, ulterior motives, in Guru’s advice?

21. Does your Guru undertake deceptive recruiting and/or aggressive promotion?

22. Does your Guru’s ideas implant phobias and self-doubt into your psyche?

23. Is Guru and his disciples money grubbing?

24. Are you pressured to change your beliefs and adopt the Guru’s beliefs?

25. Does your Guru hold ideology and dogma higher than experience, probability and logic?

26. Does your Guru ascribe unexplained or contrary events to mystical manipulation?

28. Does your Guru use thought-stopping language and thought-terminating cliches and slogans?

29. Does Guru use affiliate front groups, hidden promoters, or disguised propagandists?

30. Does your Guru imply his belief equals truth?

31. Does your Guru make use of double-binds?

32. Is your Guru held accountable for his performance?

34. Does your Guru prevent you from trusting you’re own mind?

35. Does your Guru claim to have the panacea for market problems or all market conditions?

36. Does your Guru see he world through permanently tinted lenses?

37. Does your Guru make you think you can’t make it without his advice?

38. Does your Guru use unchallengeable sources of information?

39. Does your Guru inflate his experience or make bombastic grandiose claims about performance?

40. Does your Guru employ black and white thinking?

~~~
Score Key:

1 to 8 Probably Safe and reasonably selfless like Gandhi

9 to 17 Heard of one Werner Erhard & EST? Self-improvement with a dark twist.

18 to 26 Think of L. Ron & Scientology – Weird and NSFW.

27 to 35 Jonestown…plausible fringe idea gone horribly horribly wrong. Watch what you drink…

36 to 40 Put on your trainers & trackies and prepare for a Slim Pickens ride on Hale-Bopp

Posted by ocean5 on 03-24-12 10:35 PM:

Jack,what the hell is going on!?Why selling volume is peaking but the price goes on and on?I object, your honor!

Posted by ocean5 on 03-25-12 01:09 AM:

You was right Jack,you are bad ''predictor''.I m better.

Posted by ocean5 on 03-28-12 09:49 AM:

Quote from jack hershey:

So cool.

Probably one of the best demonstrations of smart money leading the herd.

This certainly illustrates how elegant it is to use a tool to be able to carve price by taking partial fills of the herd's chicken feed positions.

Meeeeeeeeeeeeeeow!!!

Posted by ocean5 on 03-28-12 10:27 PM:

Over the last 53 years I put it into five outlines as file folders.

Posted by ocean5 on 03-28-12 10:53 PM:

Knowing how to build walls around inference that is associated with any myths or false beliefs.

Imaginig waterfall is a good meditation.

Posted by Paddler on 03-29-12 01:34 AM:

Quote from ocean5:

Over the last 53 years I put it into five outlines as file folders.

Give him a break. The party is over. What else do you want? Either you get it or you don't. Keep in mind that some remain as myth or proprietary or camouflaged from your view.

Make money.

Posted by MarketMasher on 04-07-12 10:01 PM:

What happened to the thread "Trading is EASY!" started by MarketWizard? It seems to have been accidentally erased!

Anyway, there were people who asked about seeing a trend, so I posted a pic, but JH said it was a poor example, (I had an uptrend followed by a downtrend). He said the second (trend) diminished, but there was nothing that I could see indicative of that, so I asked him to explain. Then the overnight before Good Fri happened.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-image...jhanalysis.png/

So I just asked him to explain what he meant when the said the second trend (the downtrend) "diminished".

Because, Enquiring minds want to know...

Posted by ocean5 on 04-07-12 10:08 PM:

Give him a break. The party is over. What else do you want? Either you get it or you don't. Keep in mind that some remain as myth or proprietary or camouflaged from your view.

Make money.

5 folders been camouflaged from my view!

Posted by HurricaneUS on 04-07-12 11:03 PM:

I can't make heads or tails of the last 4 pages of this thread....you JH disciples are really off your rockers.......

Posted by ocean5 on 04-11-12 11:20 PM:

''4. is an annotation assigned to price as a reminder that the OOE of the single pattern that exists can be broken and the two moves have to be folded into the prior pattern.''

Could anyone please show those 2 moves graphically?How do they look like?

Posted by Paddler on 04-12-12 06:37 AM:

Piece of cake.

Posted by tenthousandmen on 04-12-12 06:42 AM:

Why is it the first pages of this thread are legit, yet everyone throws crap at jh and the others?

Posted by ocean5 on 04-12-12 08:13 AM:

Piece of cake.

Thanks Paddy,but i have a bit different view on this.Please,check this out in the attached.

Posted by Paddler on 04-12-12 09:23 AM:

Quote from ocean5:
Thanks Paddy,but i have a bit different view on this.Please,check this out in the attached.

Yes, you are completely wrong. Ignore the crap on resistance turning into support. For accuracy sake, you have to FAN OUT the Black channel in my original illustration.

Posted by ocean5 on 04-12-12 09:48 AM:

Yes, you are completely wrong. Ignore the crap on resistance turning into support. For accuracy sake, you have to FAN OUT the Black channel in my original illustration.

I tried

Posted by Paddler on 04-12-12 11:01 AM:

1. Think. What if the POINT fails to reach Green bookmark is Red Point 3, what are the conditions required?

2. Think. What if the POINT fails to reach Green bookmark is New Black FTT, what are the conditions required?

Hints: I am indirectly telling you both could be the answer. Consider what is the Point between first move and second and Volume before and after this Point.

NB: After this exercise, you may want to re-think about Rule 4 that you posted, meaning correction.

Posted by ocean5 on 04-13-12 12:28 AM:

I heard this before.

1. Think. What if the POINT fails to reach Green bookmark is Red Point 3, what are the conditions required?

There is no way it could be Point 3,as i said,unless it is a sub-sub or whatever what you call the faster fractal.In my opinion,bla-bla-bla,Point 3 should be waaaay lower,if you cansider 'in kind' paradigm.

2. Think. What if the POINT fails to reach Green bookmark is New Black FTT, what are the conditions required?

Volume peak,i suppose.

Hints: I am indirectly telling you both could be the answer. Consider what is the Point between first move and second and Volume before and after this Point.

NB: After this exercise, you may want to re-think about Rule 4 that you posted, meaning correction.

Posted by Paddler on 04-13-12 03:18 AM:

Quote from ocean5:

I heard this before.

1. Think. What if the POINT fails to reach Green bookmark is Red Point 3, what are the conditions required?

There is no way it could be Point 3,as i said,unless it is a sub-sub or whatever what you call the faster fractal.In my opinion,bla-bla-bla,Point 3 should be waaaay lower,if you cansider 'in kind' paradigm.

Nope and definitely nope. Think of the series of events (wtih Volume) from Break Out to Red Point 3.

2. Think. What if the POINT fails to reach Green bookmark is New Black FTT, what are the conditions required?

Volume peak,i suppose.

Think of the events (with Volume) from Black FTT to Failure to Break Out and then to New Black FTT.

Hints: I am indirectly telling you both could be the answer. Consider what is the Point between first move and second and Volume before and after this Point.

NB: After this exercise, you may want to re-think about Rule 4 that you posted, meaning correction.

Posted by ocean5 on 04-13-12 03:47 AM:

Something related to the 'pre change, change, and post change of volume' concept?

BO is the reversal and FBO is the retrace.I don`t get what your point is...

Posted by Paddler on 04-13-12 04:22 AM:

Quote from ocean5:
Something related to the 'pre change, change, and post change of volume' concept?

No. This is expert stuff on carving turns.

BO is the reversal and FBO is the retrace.I don`t get what your point is...

All you need is OOE and Volume.

Let's think backward here in knowing we have Red P3.

How do you know for sure you have Red P3?
- Black volume Trough and then Increasing Red volume without breaking the Green bookmark.

How do you know for sure you are moving to Red P3?
- Decreasing Black volume from Red P2.

How do you know for sure you have Red P2?
- Red volume Peak and then Decreasing Black volume.

How do you know for sure you are moving to Red P2?
- Increasing Red volume from Break Out of prior Black RTL.

How do you know for sure you have Break Out of prior Black RTL?
- Red volume Trough at or near Black RTL and then Increasing Red volume. This is also a cast-in-stone Confirmation of the End of Black channel.

Similarly, to know you have a New Black FTT, you can not have Break Out of prior Black RTL. We call it Failure to Break Out. You can have Increasing or Decreasing Black volume but NOT to have Increasing Red volume.

Posted by ocean5 on 04-13-12 06:06 AM:

Thanks for clarifying!I somewhat got the concept before,but thanks anyway.

Posted by Paddler on 04-13-12 02:38 PM:

Quote from ocean5:
Thanks for clarifying!I somewhat got the concept before,but thanks anyway.

JHM stuff is boring and of low IQ. You should have the answers to all of your questions.

So, is the rule 4 correct? Do you need to break Green bookmark in order to have the two moves folding into prior channel? No. I caught Jack.

Posted by ocean5 on 04-14-12 01:21 AM:

Yes, you are completely wrong. Ignore the crap on resistance turning into support. For accuracy sake, you have to FAN OUT the Black channel in my original illustration.

Where is the limit in fannig out RTL?To what extent i should fan it out?

Posted by Paddler on 04-14-12 02:00 AM:

Quote from ocean5:
Where is the limit in fannig out RTL?To what extent i should fan it out?

You should continue to fan out, in our case, Black RTL, as long as the Decreasing Red Volume after Black FTT has not reached Trough. The subsequent volume after Trough is either Increasing Red OR Increasing Black.

Simple, isn't it?

Posted by ocean5 on 04-15-12 02:58 AM:

Simple, isn't it?

Indeedy....

Multiple timeframe or optimal timeframe,what would you choose?

Posted by Paddler on 04-15-12 05:19 AM:

Quote from ocean5:
Multiple timeframe or optimal timeframe,what would you choose?

Probably 15-second .

Posted by ocean5 on 04-16-12 11:18 PM:

Probably 15-second .

What is your last 'D' member signal,after you take a trade - 'A'?DOM Wall,PRV,Stoch... etc? Please don`t say altogether!

Posted by ocean5 on 04-27-12 01:01 AM:

Posted by keeptradin' on 04-30-12 04:06 AM:

Quote from moonman:

Keep trying guys

Wow, looks like alot of dead sheep.

Or a Chinese restaurant gearing up for a Friday night.

__________________
Work is for people who don't know how to trade!

Posted by R. Raskolnikov on 04-30-12 12:33 PM:

Multiple time frame. How can one determine optimal time frame? The market changes pace all the time!

Quote from ocean5:

Indeedy....

Multiple timeframe or optimal timeframe,what would you choose?

Posted by ocean5 on 05-22-12 08:20 PM:

Jack,if the market is not time,but event based,whay do u use minutes display?

Posted by ocean5 on 05-22-12 08:55 PM:

beau-beau, deuce-deuce from the left column...

Posted by ocean5 on 05-22-12 11:28 PM:

Jack,i`m in inventorland again,i told you they were coming for me...withdraw me

Posted by ocean5 on 05-24-12 11:17 PM:

Questions to Jack Hershey:Why when it works it`s certainty,when it doesnt it`s probability?I made 300% from Monday,but then something 'went wrong' and i gave it back.User error or system flaws?

Posted by ocean5 on 05-27-12 09:29 AM:

Jack, if you were to give away only one trading secret, what that would be?

Posted by Paddler on 05-27-12 11:35 AM:

Quote from ocean5:

Questions to Jack Hershey:Why when it works it`s certainty,when it doesnt it`s probability?I made 300% from Monday,but then something 'went wrong' and i gave it back.User error or system flaws?

My goodness! You are gambling which is impermissible in JHM.

You have told us that you are still not far on your path. So, be humble and don't pretend you were Jack trading reversal to reversal else be ready to look for wrecking in trading.

Try the wash trade drill. You are not supposed to give back any penny to the market except for the expense to place market orders.

Do not believe like a daft that market will always come back giving you opportunities to wash trade. Jack did not explain very well. So figure out what are missing in the drill.

Welcome to the real fucking world of JHM.

Posted by RCG Trader on 05-31-12 03:26 PM:

Quote from ocean5:

Jack, if you were to give away only one trading secret, what that would be?

r2r b2b

Posted by baro-san on 05-31-12 04:55 PM:

Quote from ocean5:

Jack, if you were to give away only one trading secret, what that would be?

jokari

Posted by ocean5 on 06-08-12 09:53 PM:

Quote from baro-san:

jokari

Posted by ocean5 on 06-08-12 10:10 PM:

What is the purpose of Johari btw?Could someone explane it to me,me Nonito Donaire?

Posted by TIKITRADER on 06-09-12 04:31 AM:

open the window O5

breezy !

Posted by ocean5 on 06-09-12 04:40 AM:

open the window O5

breezy !

will it help to view my casual body?

thx,btw

Posted by Paddler on 06-09-12 04:44 AM:

Quote from ocean5:

What is the purpose of Johari btw?Could someone explane it to me,me Nonito Donaire?

See attached where I highlighted. It is a page from "Catch Up with Tomorrow's Paper Today".

JW is merely a summary of core. You need more shells of knowledge and tools to be better.

Posted by TIKITRADER on 06-09-12 04:51 AM:

Quote from ocean5:

will it help to view my casual body?

thx,btw

unless you are one of the hotties in RCGGirl's thread ....

Posted by swisstrader on 06-09-12 10:48 AM:

Multiple time frame. How can one determine optimal time frame? The market changes pace all the time!

With full auto pace indication I think is it possible.

__________________
Money is printed freedom

Posted by ocean5 on 06-09-12 01:01 PM:

With full auto pace indication I think is it possible.

Volume pace could be very subjective and misleading thing,regarding 20-40 turns a day.The pace changes only 3 times during RTH.6x(6)x6=12-18 AT MAX.

Posted by ocean5 on 06-09-12 11:56 PM:

unless you are one of the hotties in RCGGirl's thread ....

Tiki,what IBGS stand for and what is the logic.Will you,please?

Posted by TIKITRADER on 06-10-12 12:10 AM:

Quote from ocean5:

Tiki,what IBGS stand for and what is the logic.Will you,please?

first post

Intra Bar Gaussian Shift

ibgs

Posted by ocean5 on 06-10-12 12:13 AM:

first post

Intra Bar Gaussian Shift

ibgs

But what is the logic behind it?What is that shift supposed to be?

Posted by TIKITRADER on 06-10-12 12:18 AM:

Quote from ocean5:

But what is the logic behind it?What is that shift supposed to be?

The shift ...Black to red, or red to black within a single bar ( intra bar)

Posted by ocean5 on 06-10-12 12:21 AM:

The shift of one trend to another within a single bar ( intra bar)
Black to red, or red to black

Oh,i see.Thanks Tiki!

van Persie

Posted by TIKITRADER on 06-10-12 12:22 AM:

Quote from ocean5:

Oh,i see.Thanks Tiki!

van Persie

no problem my sea worthy friend

ciao !

Posted by ocean5 on 06-10-12 12:33 AM:

The shift ...Black to red, or red to black within a single bar ( intra bar)

One more thing...What is the ''checker'' for IBGS to sustain?Volume?

Posted by jack hershey on 06-10-12 01:17 AM:

Quote from ocean5:

Each column needs its own heading. I'm sure you had that in mind. Add a UL column to the right of the formation column. below you will see some tasks. The cells of the log need glossary definitions of each term used in any cell. you are using the log to record the oredr of events of three interlocking fractals. We need that done before Monday open.

Your first goal a few weeks back after you made a log was to spend a weekend going through logging 5 cycles of the slow fractal as a mental warmup drill. Be sure to include the BO of the RTL in each fractal cycle.

Get a few steno pads (a dozen to start up) Use them as a place to list the tasks you have been assigned. Be sure to make acolumn that lists where you created the task to do.

Make the list by reviewing all the posts you have ever made and the responses you got from anyone who may have been helping you at the time.

after you do the original rough out of these tasks. then do the steno pad(s) over again but first insert colored heavy paper dividers for each topic that the tasks you didn't do, fall under. Allow enough pages to include all tasks under each of the various headings. Post the headings in alphabetical order ASAP.

We will put the headings in a ranked order that I will determine once you have the stenos all set up and you have posted the 5 slower fractal handwritten pages and a typed correct answer sheet (this is a quick cut and paste once you get a corect hand written copy) for the five slower cycles.

You have to do the two other fractals as you do the slower one.

If you get one steno page done post a scan of the page. If you do one page of the 5 cycles, scan and post the page. This will time stamp the date you began to learn about how the markets work.

It is good to ask questions. Notice that you could look up the answers to your questions.

Put all your questions so far in a steno pad. Leave columns for the answers and where the answers were that were given to you by the people who know the answers.

in another steno pad list alphabetically the handlesof the people who are helping you. Also in a series offset by commas, note the date and where the reference is to the answer they gave you.

All of these stenos pads can remind others that you have, at last begun to work.

Buy a dozen three ring binders. we will set them up for various purposes. The first one is entitled glossary. The second one is entitled CW glossary. Scan and post here each page you add to easch of these three ring binders. Make two pages for each that are labelled volume. These four pages are for lists of books. Put the word NO in front of half of the volume pages. On the CW NO volume page, and at the top list "Trendfollowing" by Covell. No volume means in the index of the book there is NO volume under the V's.

All books with NO volume need to be flushed down the toilet page by page.

Volume IS the leading indicator of price. Any books that do not say this (an ommission) and any books that say otherwise need to be stored for and sent to a recycling facility.

Setup another three ring binder labelled CW Myths. You assemble these alphabetically. You need to find these as you do anything to learn. CW is largely based on perpetuating myths. for each myth, you will be building a perpeturator list (alphabteically, and cross referenced.) this means you are using adouble entry system. Do not listen to anyone who is listed as a perpetuator. Start with bighog.

Scan and print your first page in each three ring binder.

Work in color always; it costs more but builds the mind much faster than B/W.

Since your mind is not empty, we have to build a lot of walls around your mental problems. The wall consists of the correct lternative to the problem. It has to surround the problem completely.

We had a lot of problems in the first world war. Our armies were not taught to kill. Bradley was assigned to fix this. His boss thought he was a whiner and complainer. So he put Bradley next in command so he was no longer a loose cannon. As you remember, Patton slapped whimps. He lost promotions because of this. But Patton did talk to the commanders of past very historical armies to get the job done.

It takes three days to double your capital. this depends upon you having a fully differentiated mind. having a fully differentiated mind depends upon doing drills.

You see me training electricsavant to monitor in a timely manner. I have a team of complainers, whiners and whimps keeping him on the ball. this mens you have to have a three ring binder of my posts, since a lot will be deleted as a consequence of whining whimping and conplaining. every post I make has many messages onmany levels; they hit mythologists right between the eyes. A lot of peoople here have to protect newbies. 90% of potential traders fail. For newbies it is even greater.

Try to put the unworthy on ignore.

Many people are helping you. You first reply sentence begins with "thank you".

I will correct each error you make. This get you to rich and filthy rich in months.

A person named redduke is working up a way to allow observers to understand my trading performance level. It has no educational value, BUT it will keep humor alive and well in ET.

Posted by ocean5 on 06-10-12 01:54 AM:

Posted by TIKITRADER on 06-10-12 02:57 AM:

Quote from ocean5:

One more thing...What is the ''checker'' for IBGS to sustain?Volume?

Remember, all within a single Bar.
Just think of the volume sequences needed at trend overlap to begin, then confirm change, and then apply that same volume sequence intrabar.
You have to peak inside the forming volume bar, be careful, make sure its not an open window by mistake... you could get in trouble

X 2 X

Posted by ocean5 on 06-10-12 03:29 AM:

Remember, all within a single Bar.
Just think of the volume sequences needed at trend overlap to begin, then confirm change, and then apply that same volume sequence intrabar.
You have to peak inside the forming volume bar, be careful, make sure its not an open window by mistake... you could get in trouble

X 2 X

Thank you.

IBGS checker is:

vol.sequence>>mutation>>EOB>>case>>peak?am i correct?

Posted by ocean5 on 06-10-12 03:31 AM:

With glossary

Posted by ocean5 on 06-10-12 06:48 AM:

Quote from jack hershey:

Each column needs its own heading. I'm sure you had that in mind. Add a UL column to the right of the formation column. below you will see some tasks. The cells of the log need glossary definitions of each term used in any cell. you are using the log to record the oredr of events of three interlocking fractals. We need that done before Monday open.

Your first goal a few weeks back after you made a log was to spend a weekend going through logging 5 cycles of the slow fractal as a mental warmup drill. Be sure to include the BO of the RTL in each fractal cycle.

Get a few steno pads (a dozen to start up) Use them as a place to list the tasks you have been assigned. Be sure to make acolumn that lists where you created the task to do.

Make the list by reviewing all the posts you have ever made and the responses you got from anyone who may have been helping you at the time.

after you do the original rough out of these tasks. then do the steno pad(s) over again but first insert colored heavy paper dividers for each topic that the tasks you didn't do, fall under. Allow enough pages to include all tasks under each of the various headings. Post the headings in alphabetical order ASAP.

We will put the headings in a ranked order that I will determine once you have the stenos all set up and you have posted the 5 slower fractal handwritten pages and a typed correct answer sheet (this is a quick cut and paste once you get a corect hand written copy) for the five slower cycles.

You have to do the two other fractals as you do the slower one.

If you get one steno page done post a scan of the page. If you do one page of the 5 cycles, scan and post the page. This will time stamp the date you began to learn about how the markets work.

It is good to ask questions. Notice that you could look up the answers to your questions.

Put all your questions so far in a steno pad. Leave columns for the answers and where the answers were that were given to you by the people who know the answers.

in another steno pad list alphabetically the handlesof the people who are helping you. Also in a series offset by commas, note the date and where the reference is to the answer they gave you.

All of these stenos pads can remind others that you have, at last begun to work.

Buy a dozen three ring binders. we will set them up for various purposes. The first one is entitled glossary. The second one is entitled CW glossary. Scan and post here each page you add to easch of these three ring binders. Make two pages for each that are labelled volume. These four pages are for lists of books. Put the word NO in front of half of the volume pages. On the CW NO volume page, and at the top list "Trendfollowing" by Covell. No volume means in the index of the book there is NO volume under the V's.

All books with NO volume need to be flushed down the toilet page by page.

Volume IS the leading indicator of price. Any books that do not say this (an ommission) and any books that say otherwise need to be stored for and sent to a recycling facility.

Setup another three ring binder labelled CW Myths. You assemble these alphabetically. You need to find these as you do anything to learn. CW is largely based on perpetuating myths. for each myth, you will be building a perpeturator list (alphabteically, and cross referenced.) this means you are using adouble entry system. Do not listen to anyone who is listed as a perpetuator. Start with bighog.

Scan and print your first page in each three ring binder.

Work in color always; it costs more but builds the mind much faster than B/W.

Since your mind is not empty, we have to build a lot of walls around your mental problems. The wall consists of the correct lternative to the problem. It has to surround the problem completely.

We had a lot of problems in the first world war. Our armies were not taught to kill. Bradley was assigned to fix this. His boss thought he was a whiner and complainer. So he put Bradley next in command so he was no longer a loose cannon. As you remember, Patton slapped whimps. He lost promotions because of this. But Patton did talk to the commanders of past very historical armies to get the job done.

It takes three days to double your capital. this depends upon you having a fully differentiated mind. having a fully differentiated mind depends upon doing drills.

You see me training electricsavant to monitor in a timely manner. I have a team of complainers, whiners and whimps keeping him on the ball. this mens you have to have a three ring binder of my posts, since a lot will be deleted as a consequence of whining whimping and conplaining. every post I make has many messages onmany levels; they hit mythologists right between the eyes. A lot of peoople here have to protect newbies. 90% of potential traders fail. For newbies it is even greater.

Try to put the unworthy on ignore.

Many people are helping you. You first reply sentence begins with "thank you".

I will correct each error you make. This get you to rich and filthy rich in months.

A person named redduke is working up a way to allow observers to understand my trading performance level. It has no educational value, BUT it will keep humor alive and well in ET.

Jack,could you please clarify,what paragraphs from your post to take seriously and what to skip?Let`s get to point.

Thank you.

Posted by Paddler on 06-10-12 07:28 AM:

Quote from ocean5:

Jack,could you please clarify,what paragraphs from your post to take seriously and what to skip?Let`s get to point.

Thank you.

ROFLOL.

Get both black and highlight markers.

Posted by pythontrader on 06-10-12 09:08 AM:

ROFLOL.

Get both black and highlight markers.

ROFLOL indeed. But as history shows us some people never learn. Jack come up already with your 4 out of 5 statistics. Bash the poor guy.

Posted by ocean5 on 06-10-12 12:12 PM:

Jack,does this mean the same as the trend FTT?Means that the trend is not found,in RDMS?

Posted by FreakofNature on 06-10-12 12:40 PM:

Quote from Triggaman:

Jack Hershey has a tax lien against him for unpaid taxes to the tune of \$82,000 that was filed in 2006. If you go to Maricopa County's recorder web site (http://recorder.maricopa.gov/recdocdata/) and type into the Recording Number fields, the following number: 2006 1575958 and click "search" you will be able to see the recorded document.
[/B]

Everything checks out but who is John ?

Posted by ocean5 on 06-10-12 01:01 PM:

Jack,i didn1t go out today,so i didn`t buy stenoes and binders-shminders.I1ll buy it tomorrow morning.I`m in the Far East btw,and do not trade US RTH.It`s 12:00am down here right now.

Over

Posted by Albert Cibiades on 06-10-12 07:04 PM:

Quote from jack hershey:

This get you to rich and filthy rich in months.

Or maybe just filthy from sweating out losing positions which have no predetermined stops.

Your unintentional meessage today Jack was NEED THREE VOLUME PAGES FIRST. Which I take to mean that you will introduce the PV relation soon in three short crib pages. I ill be folloing your tootelage closely to point out any logical flaws. Remember them? Always in? Never a loss? No stops?

Posted by swisstrader on 06-10-12 08:29 PM:

Quote from FreakofNature:

Everything checks out but who is John ?

What has this to do with John's trading method?

FreakofNature, here is not the pillory of the Middles Ages, here is a serious trader board. You got it?

__________________
Money is printed freedom

Posted by RCG Trader on 06-10-12 10:22 PM:

Quote from ocean5:

Jack,i didn1t go out today,so i didn`t buy stenoes and binders-shminders.I1ll buy it tomorrow morning.I`m in the Far East btw,and do not trade US RTH.It`s 12:00am down here right now.

Over

Here is tutorial till you get around to getting your notebooks.

Posted by MarketMasher on 06-10-12 10:54 PM:

Or maybe just filthy from sweating out losing positions which have no predetermined stops.

Your unintentional meessage today Jack was NEED THREE VOLUME PAGES FIRST. Which I take to mean that you will introduce the PV relation soon in three short crib pages. I ill be folloing your tootelage closely to point out any logical flaws. Remember them? Always in? Never a loss? No stops?

Albert - perhaps there can be a voting petition to have JH offer up his trading story to Schwager to be included in a Market Wizards.

That way, people will be able to learn more about JH and the JHM than just what he has posted about in various forums....

It's a win-win. JH gets some overdue recognition and a reputable forum for his story, and pesky posters can be silenced from then-on with "Just read Schwager's book".

Posted by Albert Cibiades on 06-10-12 11:27 PM:

Quote from MarketMasher:

Albert - perhaps there can be a voting petition to have JH offer up his trading story to Schwager to be included in a Market Wizards.

That way, people will be able to learn more about JH and the JHM than just what he has posted about in various forums....

It's a win-win. JH gets some overdue recognition and a reputable forum for his story, and pesky posters can be silenced from then-on with "Just read Schwager's book".

An excellent idea! Could we call it Market Gizzards?

Posted by jack hershey on 06-11-12 01:25 AM:

Quote from ocean5:

Jack,could you please clarify,what paragraphs from your post to take seriously and what to skip?Let`s get to point.

Thank you.

throw away your recent "glossary" post.

Get to the point.

Nothing I wrote was in jest.

you have to go shop and pick up a dozen steno pads and a dozen 1 1/2 inch three ring binders.

get a three hole punch, too.

A use a rainbow of ball point pens pick up a rainbow of pens with at least two of each.

for mechanical pencils, get 6 and plan on using three at time. The lead thickness is 0.7mm, the hardness is in the middle HB is the name. Get two 30 pc containers.

Most people who have the opportunity to double their capital every three days, do saddle up and get on the trail.

You, like the guy who graduated from UConn, do not have a horse and you don't have a saddle.

I did one post as a way to orient you on the work ahead. I also asked you to do a few things and post a scanned page here and there.

Throw the glossary sheet you posted in the toilet.

The three ring binder with glossary pages, has a page for each "word". On the page you type, you write stuff that means something to you. Later, in pencil, you add more. Periodically you go to the electronic file you typed (the file name is there on the page) and you rewirtite it, print it an put it in front of your original page.

All of this is a drill and it is done by all authors who write books on subjects. You are raw material for becoming a person and possibly a trader.

Every three days you fuck away into the sunset is lost time in your life where someone else has spent to time doubliing his capital. Here are three well know names of guys who spend their time wisely: Netto, Anderson, O,Neill, and Morges.

You haven't seen my magic wand yet, but some traders who trade as I do have seen me get it out.

Get to work. Shop. Post your sample work

Posted by jack hershey on 06-11-12 01:26 AM:

Quote from ocean5:

With glossary

thow this in the toilet.

Posted by jack hershey on 06-11-12 01:28 AM:

ROFLOL.

Get both black and highlight markers.

Good idea. ocean 5 do what paddler says anythime he tell you to do something. Also post a scan to prove you did it.

Posted by jack hershey on 06-11-12 01:30 AM:

Quote from ocean5:

Jack,does this mean the same as the trend FTT?Means that the trend is not found,in RDMS?

Put RDBMS in your glossary. Define it. List three languages based on RDBMS. You will be using SQL.

Posted by jack hershey on 06-11-12 01:34 AM:

Quote from ocean5:

Jack,i didn1t go out today,so i didn`t buy stenoes and binders-shminders.I1ll buy it tomorrow morning.I`m in the Far East btw,and do not trade US RTH.It`s 12:00am down here right now.

Over

Okay we are finished.

Skip everything.

I know many traders in the far east. each one I am thinking of is an expert. what they have in common is that they trade during RTH in US.

Sorry for our misunderstanding.

Posted by jack hershey on 06-11-12 01:44 AM:

Okay I am cight up in this non moderated thread.

I am not going to work with ocean 5, period.

The deal is that I do not teach but I do support learning.

It would not work out for me at my age to trade the Asian markets manually to accomdate ocean 5.

For Asian and European markets my deal is automation in SQL using a RDBMS approach.

As he says he has spent years and he basically does not even have a vocabulary much less a complete glossary of terms.

to me logging is an essential drillling tool. It takes work to learn.

One of the wonderful things about P&L that is properly presented, it can satisfy a broad range of observers. I was counting on a lurker or redduke to get the P&L discussion lock in .

Posted by ElectricSavant on 06-11-12 01:50 AM:

I just got a complaint that brought me here. I tried to clean up the last few pages.

jack hershey...I try to read all of the posts.

Please hit the complain button when possible to save me the time.

quote from jack hershey:

Okay I am cight up in this non moderated thread.

Posted by ocean5 on 06-11-12 01:59 AM:

Quote from jack hershey:

Okay we are finished.

Skip everything.

I know many traders in the far east. each one I am thinking of is an expert. what they have in common is that they trade during RTH in US.

Sorry for our misunderstanding.

Oh,just in time,Jack.I was gonna leave for the binders...Okey,so long,be cool!

Thanks!

Posted by ElectricSavant on 06-11-12 02:01 AM:

ocean5 and jack hershey,

Jack said this, eventhough this is a global public forum:

I am not going to work with ocean 5, period.

Will this escalate further....? Please take this to PM if you are having a disagreement over the time difference with each other.

BenzMercedesSL...pardon the interruption...eventhough you have not posted in this thread for 6 months..

ES

P.S. Why do I have this dark feeling that I am eventually going to need to close this thread and take names? Come on fellahs good moderation is no moderation, behave yoursleves and conduct yourselves as adults....

Quote from ocean5:

Oh,just in time,Jack.I was gonna leave for the binders...Okey,so long,be cool!

Thanks!

Posted by jack hershey on 06-11-12 07:29 PM:

Quote from ElectricSavant:

ocean5 and jack hershey,

Jack said this, eventhough this is a global public forum:

I am not going to work with ocean 5, period.

Will this escalate further....? Please take this to PM if you are having a disagreement over the time difference with each other.

BenzMercedesSL...pardon the interruption...eventhough you have not posted in this thread for 6 months..

ES

P.S. Why do I have this dark feeling that I am eventually going to need to close this thread and take names? Come on fellahs good moderation is no moderation, behave yoursleves and conduct yourselves as adults....

We all know closing a thread leads to its deletion. For those who deal with substantive content instead, be sure to set up an electronic file or make prints. of these queries and the answers many have contributed.

I can understand that you felt the content was about a time difference. Don't reread to check on that. My point of supporting and helping someone is that the person then, contributes to solving local problems. Ocean5 explained that he does not trade what I trade. In your terms I escalated the conversation to terminate any further help since, for me, there is no common ground. I do not expect you to understand this and that, if fact, no escalation was happening.

Your post here is what I call "a proof" of this thread not being moderated. My mistaken concept of moderation is that there is a consideration of substantive content. There is no noderating being done where substantive content is under consideration. Considering substantive content is not a possibility.

Most of the posts in ET that relate to me, are repeated negative posts. The majority subgroup of those posts are posts which are inaccurate. Here you are telling me to complain. At one time I did and it did not have a rational result. I quit doing this kind of house keeping that has no rational response. I didn't get anything near a fair shake. That can't change, since my activities, performance and substantive content production is "outside of the box".

Currently, it has been , again, suggested to me to post performance information. I asked the requestor to scope and bound the way in which he (redduke) thinks his criteria might be met. Maybe his response was deleted before I saw it.

So I'm more tired than ever of fucking around here.

This is an information thread in a technical venue and specifically TA. When I post here, don't fuck with my posts.

Posted by ElectricSavant on 06-11-12 08:27 PM:

Jack...The majority on these threads and I are on the same team as you. We are all members of this community and we all have a stake in it.

I personally volunteered to this community to moderate it. I find most of my duties spam related but have recently been receiving more complaints...which I have been asking for repeatedly and it seems to be working.

This is the conundrum...Do we want such heavy moderation that we reduce the posts in ET?...We know we do not want spam and that is an easy mechanical moderation duty along with some technology. But do we really want to say that this site is unmoderated because we do not edit content?

As far as you being personally harassed here in ET and your complaints I regret that I did not act upon them when you were hitting that button. I want to get better and do not disagree with some of what you say and can surely understand your feelings on the matter.

And lastly...Jack I do not appreciate you posting profanity in your post directly to me. I must comment upon it as it is my position to and it breaches the rules of conduct.

ES

Quote from jack hershey:

We all know closing a thread leads to its deletion. For those who deal with substantive content instead, be sure to set up an electronic file or make prints. of these queries and the answers many have contributed.

I can understand that you felt the content was about a time difference. Don't reread to check on that. My point of supporting and helping someone is that the person then, contributes to solving local problems. Ocean5 explained that he does not trade what I trade. In your terms I escalated the conversation to terminate any further help since, for me, there is no common ground. I do not expect you to understand this and that, if fact, no escalation was happening.

Your post here is what I call "a proof" of this thread not being moderated. My mistaken concept of moderation is that there is a consideration of substantive content. There is no noderating being done where substantive content is under consideration. Considering substantive content is not a possibility.

Most of the posts in ET that relate to me, are repeated negative posts. The majority subgroup of those posts are posts which are inaccurate. Here you are telling me to complain. At one time I did and it did not have a rational result. I quit doing this kind of house keeping that has no rational response. I didn't get anything near a fair shake. That can't change, since my activities, performance and substantive content production is "outside of the box".

Currently, it has been , again, suggested to me to post performance information. I asked the requestor to scope and bound the way in which he (redduke) thinks his criteria might be met. Maybe his response was deleted before I saw it.

So I'm more tired than ever of fucking around here.

This is an information thread in a technical venue and specifically TA. When I post here, don't fuck with my posts.

Posted by baro-san on 06-12-12 12:28 AM:

Here is tutorial till you get around to getting your notebooks.
...

Starting from a horizontal line, and moving left to right on the chart feels more natural for mind building.

Posted by jack hershey on 06-12-12 01:21 AM:

Quote from baro-san:

Starting from a horizontal line, and moving left to right on the chart feels more natural for mind building.

I was unable to get the video to work.

my comment is probably off the wall.

For any mind building, drills are the key. Repeating a task is best.

Both of you are really the best qualified to make suggestions to those who are now getting on with mind building.

I simply cannot insert myself in the learner's position to fathom the unseen he is involved with.

The monstous undertaking of converting from up/down to roght/left is a challenge.

Money is made going from right to left. We all know all new bars appear on the right of a chart and we alwys have about 1/e of the chart blank on the right side. This is where all boundaries are "projected" for future bars to fill in into these annotated containers.

Dominance is the side of the market where money is made. Non dominance is endured to be able to remain on the correct side of the market.

Could someone fill me in on where to put brief vidoes that I could do by using some sort of camera. I see the one posted looks like it could be a camtasia. I have camtasia and tons of past narrated camtasias. I'll be in Napa tues, weds and Thurs this week. I will be in the Tucson office for the open Friday.

For now, our video guy (you may know him as "Skiman" if you do the international ski travel bit) is in recovery.

In our trend monitoring and analysis, the focus is AFTER point 3 and before the FTT (point 1) where overlap begins. All of this is going FROM the right TOWARD the left.

Elsewhere it is being explained why using trendlines does not work. For these people, that is true for them. We frontrun the CW thinking.

The hold/reversal strategy and system runs well ahead of other systems and methods. CW pushes our trading.

The final part of hold is right to left with the herd's increasing volume taking use to a peak just when the price Fails To Traverse from right to left in a trend parallelogram container.

A new trade commences BEFORE any trend lines may be drawn. SO WHAT!!!

The new trend hold begins by the hold GOING FROM RIGHT TO LEFT in the brand new dominant direction.

We use adjacent bars to begin to draw the build up of interlocking fractals.

there are just two horizontal lines in what we do:

first, the bookmark as a ray from the FTT's and ftt's and, second, the zero axis of the volume display.

Posted by baro-san on 06-12-12 06:34 AM:

Quote from jack hershey:

I was unable to get the video to work. ...

I hope RCG doesn't mind that I sampled selected slides from his video into an animated gif. From this it can be seen how the annotations are built from the right side of the chart (present) toward the left (past), starting with a vertical line that is gradually sloped to establish the RTL. My original question / suggestion was if it's not more natural to start the annotation from the left of the chart (past) and build it towards the right (present), starting with a horizontal line that is gradually sloped to establish the RTL. This right / left discussion is different form Jack's price moving dominantly from right to left (RTL toward LTL), and non-dominantly left to right.

It may be that the method suggested in the video makes more sense, but I can't see why.

Posted by ocean5 on 06-12-12 07:16 AM:

''...but I can't see why.''

for the petty tyrantims,that is why

Posted by TIKITRADER on 06-12-12 07:25 AM:

My understanding of Jack's method is
A point one must start with an FTT/ftt and build into the future ( start from left and annotate to the right ) taping towards point two, then on to point three, ftt, for the
sequential order of events to take place properly.

Now where is Jack Paddler this evening ?

Posted by ocean5 on 06-12-12 07:41 AM:

Now where is Jack Paddler this evening ?

righ here...

Posted by TIKITRADER on 06-12-12 07:48 AM:

Quote from ocean5:

righ here...

Was Nkhoi the writer of the volume check script for ninja ?
He may be able to answer that.

Posted by ocean5 on 06-12-12 07:55 AM:

Was Nkhoi the writer of the volume check script for ninja ?
He may be able to answer that.

Hi Tik,Chris ''Real'' Rea speaking...nothing but bluuue skyyyy,so turn it up!

Okkkaay...yes,you are right,Nkhoi was.I asked about this glitch in the ''Hershey snippets'' thread,but there were no responses. On the price i see the ''5''LOL..what the hell that may mean...and on volume ''i'' things appear.Maybe some Ninja glitch.I have same the script on another laptop,but there everything is ok...

Posted by RCG Trader on 06-12-12 12:41 PM:

Quote from baro-san:

I hope RCG doesn't mind that I sampled selected slides from his video into an animated gif. From this it can be seen how the annotations are built from the right side of the chart (present) toward the left (past), starting with a vertical line that is gradually sloped to establish the RTL. My original question / suggestion was if it's not more natural to start the annotation from the left of the chart (past) and build it towards the right (present), starting with a horizontal line that is gradually sloped to establish the RTL. This right / left discussion is different form Jack's price moving dominantly from right to left (RTL toward LTL), and non-dominantly left to right.

It may be that the method suggested in the video makes more sense, but I can't see why.

No, not at all baro-

In fact, I will put up any videos in the Hershey collection that are needed to bolster a discussion.

Posted by RCG Trader on 06-12-12 12:53 PM:

The drawing of channels needs to start in the now, and go backwards. If you do it that way, it is easier to spot an FTT in a timely manner.

Posted by ocean5 on 06-12-12 10:56 PM:

Tiki,did you ever try to scratch 200 contracts out?Do you think it`s gonna work to scratch 200 cars a pop?

It`s me,btw,Rikki-Tiki-Tavi

Posted by pythontrader on 06-15-12 07:52 AM:

Quote from ocean5:

Tiki,did you ever try to scratch 200 contracts out?Do you think it`s gonna work to scratch 200 cars a pop?

It`s me,btw,Rikki-Tiki-Tavi

He can do 500. And Jack can do 1000. 10 times the capacity of the market you know... Where is the genius anyway? I guess he tried 20 times the capacity this time and still resetting the simulator. The video will follow.

PS: Enjoy the time you are loosing. Jack's help comes in handy.

Posted by frenchfry on 06-15-12 09:11 AM:

If I remember correctly it is a font you are missing. It was mentioned in the "Software used to trade JH method". Install that font.

Quote from ocean5:

Hi Tik,Chris ''Real'' Rea speaking...nothing but bluuue skyyyy,so turn it up!

Okkkaay...yes,you are right,Nkhoi was.I asked about this glitch in the ''Hershey snippets'' thread,but there were no responses. On the price i see the ''5''LOL..what the hell that may mean...and on volume ''i'' things appear.Maybe some Ninja glitch.I have same the script on another laptop,but there everything is ok...

Posted by ocean5 on 06-15-12 10:26 AM:

Quote from frenchfry:

If I remember correctly it is a font you are missing. It was mentioned in the "Software used to trade JH method". Install that font.

You mean the font in the OS?I have the same script on both computers,but on one it shows ''P'' and on another that freaking ''5'' and ''6''

Posted by frenchfry on 06-15-12 06:46 PM:

Yes. the OS font. It was answered in that thread and the font was even uploaded. I know it takes a few minutes but if you go through that thread you will find a link to the zipped font.

Posted by SK0 on 06-23-12 04:01 PM:

Harmonic

Hi Jack.

What should I look for in OTR to DECIDE the harmonic whether is even or odd? Is it by the volume velocity? A few lines should be sufficient.

Thank you and best wishes.

SK0

Posted by ocean5 on 07-15-12 12:12 AM:

Quote from jack hershey:

This is a superior question.

The pace lines are calc'ed as shown in the Hershey coding and programing thread

your focus is on what a Quant would think he is seeing as a "wide tail". BUT it is not a wide tail at all it conforms, within stated limits to a gaussian distribution.

This region you address as well as the lowest region, has only exactly half the influence of the four main and central regions.

These six regions each have their purposes. the region you mention is a "breakout region". The lowest region is the same.

the remaining four major relative regions are most important. these are the regions of the fewest surprises to the most experienced and biggest money traders. Since most money velocity can occur frontrunning the "big fish" it is important to profit effectively and efficiently during the most reliable parasitic trading periods.

If you get setup to "see" the markets and the PEOPLE who influence, you will be putting in place a ten way division of all trades that are compiled into 6 regions: two tails and four main regions. This IS science handling the PEOPLE factor in trading.

Notice your "short stitch" being annotated in price. Also notice where it is in trending segments.

You have an oppotunity to behave. You did ask a question that indicates a major visual short coming most chart readers have. Here I have posted my first chart. It shows when volume is used to measure trends and it shows when volume is not used to measure trends.

Amazingly you can read posters here that think each bar is equal when in reality some bars count and other bars count not at all. How difficult could it be to differentiate the two subsets of bars?

The bars on my first chart have three colors (red black and blue) Look at the chart being used to instruct me. Mono. Why? Two other price values are missing on each bar. Why? I am not going to delete this information on my charts simply because it would deprive me of available information.

Posted by ocean5 on 07-15-12 12:23 AM:

My view is that the pacelines could be reduce to the 3 lines.Lower bo,middle - latteral line,and higher bo.No?

Posted by ocean5 on 07-15-12 12:56 AM:

Jack,the blue square is the latterals,and what is the red square on your chart?

Posted by ocean5 on 07-15-12 01:02 AM:

Quote from ocean5:

My view is that the pacelines could be reduce to the 3 lines.Lower bo,middle - latteral line,and higher bo.No?

And the appropriate lines could be put on a price pane.

Posted by jack hershey on 07-15-12 01:05 AM:

Quote from ocean5:

My view is that the pacelines could be reduce to the 3 lines.Lower bo,middle - latteral line,and higher bo.No?

I work in a simpler manner than you.

The way to divide deciles into four parts may be easy or a gueass for you but for me there was an involvement in Science.

you may have missed the volatility and overlap tables.

If you do the coding to adjust the region every bar, you will find it requires work. Maybe you have not seen the lines adjusting during the day>

Posted by ocean5 on 07-15-12 01:09 AM:

Quote from ocean5:

And the appropriate lines could be put on a price pane.

It could be VWAP lines with the corresponding to volume pace setting.I`m ''experimenting''

Posted by ocean5 on 07-15-12 01:17 AM:

Quote from jack hershey:

I work in a simpler manner than you.

The way to divide deciles into four parts may be easy or a gueass for you but for me there was an involvement in Science.

you may have missed the volatility and overlap tables.

If you do the coding to adjust the region every bar, you will find it requires work. Maybe you have not seen the lines adjusting during the day>

Its a bit different what i trade.I trade from the Asian session throught the midday of the EU session.There are several markets overlapping on the way,but it doesnt hurt the pace until EU opening.With ticks display it keeps steady and i only have three lines on volume and three corresponding to volume lines on the price.

Posted by ocean5 on 07-15-12 01:19 AM:

Quote from Redneck:

case in point

RN

It was not studios regarding the volume lines ont the price pane(and i wanted to find out why).Are you really that dumb?

Posted by jack hershey on 07-15-12 01:25 AM:

Quote from ocean5:

Jack,the blue square is the latterals,and what is the red square on your chart?

Every internal except the lateral.

Both boxes are made into one bar, respectively.

This means for trading, you only have translating bars.

At this level of PA trading you fail to have a leading indicator, so insted of lagging, you switch to a leading indicator.

By doing this, then you have advance warning from volume what is going to happen in price.

Price teaches what to throw out in volume.

As you would see if you had the clue to set up a screen to watch markets, All bars begin with a red box bounding them.

A second bar with a red box surrounding it is thrown out.

If you are an efective and efficient trader, you cut back on observations during a bar up to and including all the time that the bar is NOT important. While this is going on you sweep your eyes to follow (what the charts I used to illustrate how my eyes sweep) the values where trend segments will be ending. These are other leading indicator pics that you hang on your display.

As you found out somewhere you are "detailed" oriented and you find it impossible to discover the pieces. Often you just throw them out.

You were "reacting" to TO a while back. It is just an example of your detail orientation.

It is rarely possible for a person to consider the views of others. I am at another pole in that spectrum of views. I deal deductively from principles. So I need to disappear for some kinds of thinkers and all non thinkers.

I suggest "putting the pieces together". It is based on the assumption that a person who is "detail" oriented can easily find the pieces. That did not happen in CW or academia.

The world's orientation to learning to make money is almost totally senseless. I do not see any tidal changes coming soon.

Posted by ocean5 on 07-15-12 01:35 AM:

Quote from jack hershey:

Every internal except the lateral.

Internal to what,to the trendline or to the previuos bar?

Posted by ocean5 on 07-15-12 01:41 AM:

Every internal IS latteral.I dont get it

Posted by ocean5 on 07-15-12 01:45 AM:

What is ''internal'' anyway? No,seriously?

Posted by ocean5 on 07-15-12 01:58 AM:

Jack,are you here?

Posted by ocean5 on 07-15-12 02:07 AM:

Quote from ocean5:

What is ''internal'' anyway? No,seriously?

Is it FTP FBP IB STICHES HITCH?Then whats the point count them if i`m already in?And what`s the point to count them if by the time i enter it`s already formed?

Posted by ocean5 on 07-15-12 02:25 AM:

Quote from jack hershey:

I work in a simpler manner than you.

The way to divide deciles into four parts may be easy or a gueass for you but for me there was an involvement in Science.

you may have missed the volatility and overlap tables.

If you do the coding to adjust the region every bar, you will find it requires work. Maybe you have not seen the lines adjusting during the day>

Why are you not agree with the vol lines on the price pane?No need to adjust anything as the lines adjust themselves by their average nature,as the price moves along.

Posted by tenthousandmen on 07-15-12 02:40 AM:

Quote from jack hershey:

Every internal except the lateral.

Both boxes are made into one bar, respectively.

This means for trading, you only have translating bars.

At this level of PA trading you fail to have a leading indicator, so insted of lagging, you switch to a leading indicator.

By doing this, then you have advance warning from volume what is going to happen in price.

Price teaches what to throw out in volume.

As you would see if you had the clue to set up a screen to watch markets, All bars begin with a red box bounding them.

A second bar with a red box surrounding it is thrown out.

If you are an efective and efficient trader, you cut back on observations during a bar up to and including all the time that the bar is NOT important. While this is going on you sweep your eyes to follow (what the charts I used to illustrate how my eyes sweep) the values where trend segments will be ending. These are other leading indicator pics that you hang on your display.

As you found out somewhere you are "detailed" oriented and you find it impossible to discover the pieces. Often you just throw them out.

You were "reacting" to TO a while back. It is just an example of your detail orientation.

It is rarely possible for a person to consider the views of others. I am at another pole in that spectrum of views. I deal deductively from principles. So I need to disappear for some kinds of thinkers and all non thinkers.

I suggest "putting the pieces together". It is based on the assumption that a person who is "detail" oriented can easily find the pieces. That did not happen in CW or academia.

The world's orientation to learning to make money is almost totally senseless. I do not see any tidal changes coming soon.

Is this a joke?

Posted by jack hershey on 07-15-12 07:28 PM:

Quote from tenthousandmen:

Is this a joke?

If you walk into the middle of a ballet without a program, you may find the ballet to be a joke.

For you, reading my stuff would be similar.

To fix your ballet problem you could go to ballet class and get read up on the "pieces" in ballet and learn the routine of famous ballet creators.

As you may have heard, to become a ballerina requires doing practice, routines which put the pieces together and doing rehersals for performances.

As you see ocean 5 do his one liners. you see a person who has a mind and that mind is filled with an assortment of current beliefs that are pasted over older beliefs he has abandoned.

It is not possible to erase.

If you come and sit down in the middle of a performance, just take notes on what surfaces in your mind. You did that.

based on what is in your mind, my post turns out to be something you do not understand and arouses you to take a behavioral action. You write words in a question for your interjection.

Look at ocean 5's dance in this thread.

He can't remember the vocabulary I use since English is not his primary language. He does not construct any memory of information in his mind using English.

As I remember he posed about J, P and another unused letter recently when refering to cases.

He does not know what "lateral" means. He does not know what iunternal means.

Some people follow the beliefs of the ET originator.: 10,000hours are required and you get a CW mind.

Ocean5 is concentrating on a shortcut around and bypassing having a fully differentiated mind.

I should write a book called: The Language of the Markets"

The alphabet would have about 17 letters. Words would be formed and the word would define a trend segment or define adjacent bars identities. There would only be 27 words: 7 brief words and 10 full length words and 10 words defining adjacency.

There would be five sentence structures one for each of the interrelated OOE's that unfold in trends.

Can a mind grasp this language of the markets by reading the letters, words, and snetences.? Yes if the following is done:

1. learn the alphabet.
2. Learn how to spell.
3. learn how to read sentences written by the markets.

In a language , a person learns that the parts of speech are determined by the use of the word.

Sp ocean 5 is looking for a shortcut to using the language of the markets. As we see he grunts out forms of anguish because he mind is not differentiated in any way.

Tenthousandmen is a neophyte, good for him.

Posted by Argent on 07-15-12 08:57 PM:

Quote from jack hershey:

If you walk into the middle of a ballet without a program, you may find the ballet to be a joke.

Were ye a ballet, me boy, ye wouldst be Puchinella.

(I will allow a reasonable interval for replies whilst ye illitruts race to Wickedpoedia far the unformation ye needs to appear littrut.)

__________________
"Those argent Fields more likely habitants"

Posted by ocean5 on 07-15-12 09:29 PM:

My native is Sanskrit.Eva kevalam

Posted by ocean5 on 07-15-12 09:30 PM:

Pain in the dance

Posted by ocean5 on 07-15-12 11:02 PM:

[QUOTE]Quote from jack hershey:

this bare unembellished chart was displayed in this thread to show (visually) the starting point of what a person would see looking over my shoulder to see two of my screens.

When is the next point?

Q:Can i use the unembelished chart only to make \$1,3K in 9 minutes?

Posted by ocean5 on 07-17-12 09:31 AM:

"Amazingly you can read posters here that think each bar is equal when in reality some bars count and other bars count not at all. How difficult could it be to differentiate the two subsets of bars?"

Tell how not difficult?

Posted by ocean5 on 07-17-12 09:29 PM:

Quote from jack hershey:

And reversals on 35, 47,...

So you drawn down a bit and the reversed with the scratch?Or was it the moment ,you mentioned somewhere, called ''sometimes you have to pay as in any kind of business operation''?Was it a cost for doing business?

I`d sell there either,but then i`d be more then 3 points draw down.How do you deal in this situation Jack?It`s interesting to hear.

Posted by ocean5 on 07-17-12 10:18 PM:

Quote from ocean5:

So you drawn down a bit and the reversed with the scratch?Or was it the moment ,you mentioned somewhere, called ''sometimes you have to pay as in any kind of business operation''?Was it a cost for doing business?

I`d sell there either,but then i`d be more then 3 points draw down.How do you deal in this situation Jack?It`s interesting to hear.

Jack,i think it`d be interesting for many of your followers.How did you manage 3points+ drawdown?

Posted by jack hershey on 07-17-12 10:29 PM:

Quote from ocean5:

So you drawn down a bit and the reversed with the scratch?Or was it the moment ,you mentioned somewhere, called ''sometimes you have to pay as in any kind of business operation''?Was it a cost for doing business?

I`d sell there either,but then i`d be more then 3 points draw down.How do you deal in this situation Jack?It`s interesting to hear.

You trade from a CW emotional set viewpoint. these emotions are anxiety, fear and anger.

you describe the flux of your CW resoning in the situation you are in after you put your money in the market. When you are on the sidelines you are probably calmer since you are not at what the CW calls RISK.

Humans have dealt in survival from the earliest times. The lizard syndrome is well known as a defence. "Freezing" and "pain" are the CW terms.

There is another world, of course.

you may own a car and you may drive it. your emotions while drving comes from the context you are in. You "know that you know" what is going on.

In trading you do not know; in driving you know.

I am very different than are you.

I have a perfected trading system built on the Scientific Method and its deductive process. As I used the system over a period of half a century, it became part of my long term memory and while I slept two things happened.

My mind became further organized as a spectrum. My mind found weaker spots and formulated questions and when I woke up I wrote them on a steno pad.

You almost bought some steno pads one time but your ANGER prevented you.

At bar 35 I see I have made 8 points times 10 accounts times 50 times the average number of contracts in each of the 10 accounts. I feel supported, comfortable and confident. These are feeliings coming from below my neck.

Bernanke stopped speaking on bar 36 as everyone knows who pays attention to business.

It is lunchtime in the big apple.

your question someday in the future will be: Why didn't you bookmark the bars 35 and pick off another six points three points each way (you don't recognize that either))

You missed the answer to the person who asked that question yesterday.

after the non book mark there were 20 minutes of a lateral where no money was to be made.

On bar 47, I watched the spiking closely since I knew there could be a signal on the bar. So A cremed it for one reason only: TO KEEP ON THE CORRECT SIDE OF THE MARKET.

here is a principle to understand and adopt:

stay on the correct side of the market on your trading fractal and the profits will take care of themselves.

Going long on bar 47 led to 4 times 10 accounts times 50 time the average number of contracts in the 10 accounts. And a free relaxed lunch before that.

you use OODA of John Boyd; you get the consequeces that you post.

I use MADA; I get a fully differentiated mind that takes the full off of the market dduring regular trading hours.

You cannot erase or empty your mind. If you were to want to make money, you would have to build a barrier (s) in your mind to prevent you mind from finding or getting to use your present belief system.

Notice you are looking for a shortcut. There is no shortcut. you mind is cast in concrete as you show in almost all of your posts.

I am the messenger. You re getting bad news.

This post is a valuable post and its topic is neuroscience.

Posted by R. Raskolnikov on 07-17-12 10:33 PM:

LOL, poor Ocean5. It's not nice to pick on the weaklings, Jack.

Quote from jack hershey:

I am the messenger. You re getting bad news.

Posted by ocean5 on 07-17-12 10:59 PM:

Quote from jack hershey:

You trade from a CW emotional set viewpoint. these emotions are anxiety, fear and anger.

you describe the flux of your CW resoning in the situation you are in after you put your money in the market. When you are on the sidelines you are probably calmer since you are not at what the CW calls RISK.

Humans have dealt in survival from the earliest times. The lizard syndrome is well known as a defence. "Freezing" and "pain" are the CW terms.

There is another world, of course.

you may own a car and you may drive it. your emotions while drving comes from the context you are in. You "know that you know" what is going on.

In trading you do not know; in driving you know.

I am very different than are you.

I have a perfected trading system built on the Scientific Method and its deductive process. As I used the system over a period of half a century, it became part of my long term memory and while I slept two things happened.

My mind became further organized as a spectrum. My mind found weaker spots and formulated questions and when I woke up I wrote them on a steno pad.

You almost bought some steno pads one time but your ANGER prevented you.

At bar 35 I see I have made 8 points times 10 accounts times 50 times the average number of contracts in each of the 10 accounts. I feel supported, comfortable and confident. These are feeliings coming from below my neck.

Bernanke stopped speaking on bar 36 as everyone knows who pays attention to business.

It is lunchtime in the big apple.

your question someday in the future will be: Why didn't you bookmark the bars 35 and pick off another six points three points each way (you don't recognize that either))

You missed the answer to the person who asked that question yesterday.

after the non book mark there were 20 minutes of a lateral where no money was to be made.

On bar 47, I watched the spiking closely since I knew there could be a signal on the bar. So A cremed it for one reason only: TO KEEP ON THE CORRECT SIDE OF THE MARKET.

here is a principle to understand and adopt:

stay on the correct side of the market on your trading fractal and the profits will take care of themselves.

Going long on bar 47 led to 4 times 10 accounts times 50 time the average number of contracts in the 10 accounts. And a free relaxed lunch before that.

you use OODA of John Boyd; you get the consequeces that you post.

I use MADA; I get a fully differentiated mind that takes the full off of the market dduring regular trading hours.

You cannot erase or empty your mind. If you were to want to make money, you would have to build a barrier (s) in your mind to prevent you mind from finding or getting to use your present belief system.

Notice you are looking for a shortcut. There is no shortcut. you mind is cast in concrete as you show in almost all of your posts.

I am the messenger. You re getting bad news.

This post is a valuable post and its topic is neuroscience.

Hey you reversed on bar 35 SHORT after bar 20,which you reversed long from.WTF you are shitting me here?

Bar1 Open as called

trade 2 book mark reversal on bar 3

trade 3 reversal on bar 20

And reversals on 35
, 47, 53, 64, 68, 74. trade on 78 (exit)''

Posted by ocean5 on 07-17-12 11:07 PM:

Quote from ocean5:

Hey you reversed on bar 35 SHORT after bar 20,which you reversed long from.WTF you are shitting me here?

Bar1 Open as called

trade 2 book mark reversal on bar 3

trade 3 reversal on bar 20

And reversals on 35
, 47, 53, 64, 68, 74. trade on 78 (exit)''

You can`t even spot your own bullshit,and i have a concrete mind!!!

Posted by ocean5 on 07-17-12 11:09 PM:

I`m the messenger:you are a bullshiter!

Posted by ocean5 on 07-17-12 11:23 PM:

Is your real purpose to fuck everyones mind,Jack and to waste everyones time?!Then stop fucking posting!!!

Posted by ocean5 on 07-17-12 11:39 PM:

Quote from ocean5:

Is your real purpose to fuck everyones mind,Jack and to waste everyones time?!Then stop fucking posting!!!

But not giving an explanation you just confirm the fact that you lead people astray.The community awaits for the clear explanation of this accident.

Posted by ocean5 on 07-17-12 11:56 PM:

ANGER is what deprives the pundits from Heaven.

Posted by MarketMasher on 07-18-12 02:55 AM:

Quote from ocean5:

Hey you reversed on bar 35 SHORT after bar 20,which you reversed long from.WTF you are shitting me here?

Bar1 Open as called

trade 2 book mark reversal on bar 3

trade 3 reversal on bar 20

And reversals on 35
, 47, 53, 64, 68, 74. trade on 78 (exit)''

Is this like the Open short he gave river on a trend up day?

Pinky went Blue in the morning...

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-image...inkytuesday.png

But it sounds like JH was turning and carving...carving and turning.....

Maybe he should have just loaded up at the low and gone fishing....

The only one Pinky would reveal the PinkyBlue to is JH - but JH is already busy turning and carving...carving and turning..... So no point in that.

Posted by ocean5 on 07-18-12 03:29 AM:

Instead of being agree when he`s wrong,he usually starts his regular ''CW,et al bla-bla'' bull.And that is disgusting!

Posted by Paddler on 07-18-12 07:05 AM:

Quote from ocean5:

Instead of being agree when he`s wrong,he usually starts his regular ''CW,et al bla-bla'' bull.And that is disgusting!

LOL. Just relax as Jack said.

Why did you mention the word 'drawdown'? It is a taboo in JHM community.

Pretend like the rest, you trade with no fear, anxiety or anger. Remember that the market has no flaw. Hehe

Still, there is one thing you can learn from the insulting post.

Quote from Jack Hershey:

here is a principle to understand and adopt:

stay on the correct side of the market on your trading fractal and the profits will take care of themselves.

Do you know how even as a beginner?

Am I rude? Maybe to some naive mod.

Posted by ocean5 on 07-23-12 07:37 AM:

/

Posted by jack hershey on 07-31-12 07:13 PM:

Quote from d08:

I didn't see Jack post any statistics anywhere either, both are just expressing opinions. I've analyzed volume a lot and haven't found any significant evidence of it affecting direction.

Check out the Vo and Ov table we posted and keep up to date bar by bar.

There you see on each table both row and column gaussians on each table. Notice also their common axis which is statisitcally derived from two months of five minute bars.

I sorry to read to did se what was posted. It will help you to switch back awy from your opinion orientation to a statisitcal orientation.

also you may need a reminder about the use of the Keynesian HS and PM and then the Boolean based carnap Logic theory. The PM ties the two fields together.

by choosing a binary Vector we include both magnitude and direction in a single varible which is binary.

In statisits as great probability advantage is gained by using logic. The two possibilities do not overrlap and are called mutually exclusive. The probability on two mutually exclusive elements in a two element Universe leaves nothing to be desired. It is all on the table and the table is operationnal AT ALL TIMES.

The only reason I am posting this is because it is when the paddler alias began in ET in this thread and his first post mentions some naked guy who is a leading indicator of making money.

Posted by SatMir on 09-04-12 08:27 AM:

Was reading mr.Hershey for a while in this thread.Seems,he doesn`t pay that much attention to what he posts.It seems that the red square is more closer to lateral movement then te blue one.Am i correct?

Posted by TIKITRADER on 09-04-12 10:51 AM:

Quote from SatMir:

Was reading mr.Hershey for a while in this thread.Seems,he doesn`t pay that much attention to what he posts.It seems that the red square is more closer to lateral movement then te blue one.Am i correct?

Hermano,

Red sq = lateral formation

Lateral movement is slightly different

Blue boxes ( sq as you mention ) are not lateral formation,
they are internals of a certain group.
Look up Jack Hershey clean page2

Posted by SatMir on 09-04-12 10:59 AM:

Hermano,

Red sq = lateral formation

Lateral movement is slightly different

Blue boxes ( sq as you mention ) are not lateral formation,
they are internals of a certain group.
Look up Jack Hershey clean page2

Yes,that`i why i said,mr.doesn`t pay much attention when he posts.Here he said the othewise,when some kid asked him - red-internals,and blue-lats:

Posted by TIKITRADER on 09-04-12 11:04 AM:

Also there may exist lateral movement in your example chart starting around 10 am extending to approximately 12pm.

Posted by SatMir on 09-04-12 11:15 AM:

Also there may exist lateral movement in your example chart starting around 10 am extending to approximately 12pm.

No,it only covered 3 5min bars,then it was BOed by translation down,which in turn,followed with another lat move for annother 3 5 min bars...

Posted by TIKITRADER on 09-04-12 11:20 AM:

Quote from SatMir:

Yes,that`i why i said,mr.doesn`t pay much attention when he posts.Here he said the othewise,when some kid asked him - red-internals,and blue-lats:

That is the Trade Navigator platform.
I do not have it. I have seen Jack and others post some charts which look to be coded blue for internals, red for lateral formation.

Posted by SatMir on 09-04-12 11:29 AM:

That is the Trade Navigator platform.
I do not have it. I have seen Jack and others post some charts which look to be coded blue for internals, red for lateral formation.

Yes,but the charts he posted,usually had many flaws.

Posted by SatMir on 09-05-12 01:31 PM:

A question to Jack Hershey.

Don`t you never adjust the timeframe according to volatility,or you use 5 min chart under any circumstances?With the present volatility,internals,for e.g.,could be 3-4 points in range.

Thank you.

Posted by SatMir on 09-05-12 05:23 PM:

Another question.

Posted by Wide Tailz on 09-05-12 08:15 PM:

Higher highs n lows iz all u need 2 know

Posted by traitor786 on 01-22-13 01:56 PM:

Quote from Mushroom:

Here's a trade today where I exited solely based on volume being too low. If it wasn't for volume it would have been a small loss instead of a small profit, cause I would have stayed in the trade longer.
Could give lots of examples where it has helped me, others prob can do. Don't understand how you can just disregard volume.

This seems like jacks work. but a closer look shows charts that are based on time. how did you miss that ?

Posted by TheMagican on 01-22-13 01:59 PM:

Q to Jack Hershey...How the going?

Posted by TheMagican on 01-23-13 01:48 PM:

Q to JH.Why is ES so sssssllllloooowwwwww?

Posted by relocate on 05-15-13 02:25 AM:

Jack,can you predict the channel`s width?Is it a good idea,anyway?

Posted by relocate on 05-15-13 02:26 AM: